If you are moral to escape hell...

[CP489]

Another thread touched on the lack of organized morals for atheists. That brought to mind an interesting question for me.

If your basis for being moral is to attain favor from your god, or to escape hell, are you actually a moral person?

Your behavior may be moral, or it may not, but the question remains.

[Anacoluthon64]

If your basis for being moral is to attain favor from your god, or to escape hell, are you actually a moral person?

In the first place, there's much difficulty in defining "moral" comprehensively, which difficulty carries over to judging behaviour - one man's moral is often another's condemnation. Semantically, the question is of course rhetorical.

But I think what you are really asking is whether a person who adheres to one or other ethical canon (one he may not necessarily agree with unreservedly) with ulterior motives in mind can be considered moral at all. In terms of that set of moral precepts which he follows, and provided he follows it unfailingly, he would be regarded as a moral person since his behaviour would be the same irrespective of his reasons for following the moral code. And after all, we judge others by their behaviour, not by what we think they might be thinking (though this may, of course, colour our own behaviour towards that person).

If the moral code explicitly required of him that he must also agree unreservedly with that code's prescriptions, he would then be judged amoral if he followed all but this provision. Religions have used this sleight-of-mind -- you must honour god and god is the moral authority -- and added a healthy dose of fear to it, so as to curb or catch those with a mind for sedition.

'Luthon64

[Admiral]

It depends largely on the religion, I believe.

Catholocism is based largely on the belief that as long as someone avoids sins and repents for the ones they commit, they can go to Heaven. Protestantism, on the other hand, has a focus on faith- Martin Luther's followers chanted "Sola Fide!" or "Faith alone!" to say that only faith in God could save humans from Hell.

So, I have to ask- are you theoretically believing Catholicism or Protestantism (or Islam, I suppose)? Not to mention- if you're referring to Protestant hell, is it a Baptist Hell? A Pentecostal Hell? As a formerly faithful Presbyterian, I find the fractured structure of Protestantism to be pretty interesting.

Speaking of which, an Emo Phillips joke (from http://cmgm.stanford.edu/~lkozar/EmoPhillips.html)

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

[Humphreys]

That depends how you define morality. If you define morality based on actions alone, then motives are irrelevant, otherwise they are acting purely in their own interests, and would be immoral.

Edited to add: Christians define morality as doing as God's will. If we accept that, they are moral by definition.

Personally, I don't see how anyone acting purely in their own interests deserves to be associated with a positive word like "morality".

[strathmeyer]

If your basis for being moral is to attain favor from your god, or to escape hell, are you actually a moral person?

I believe you are correct. Most religious morality is based upon "do things this way because we say so", which is not what actual morality is at all. It gets confusing because some of their rules and laws actually make moral sense, but it shouldn't be confused with actual being able to tell the difference between right and wrong.