A first question

[Kotatsu no tomodachi]

There's currently a large science fair in my town (Gothenburg, Sweden), and on the other side of the street from one of their many tents is - ironically - the yellow tent of a group of volunteer scientologists. As this tent is placed beside one of the largest shopping streets in town, and I pass it almost daily, I have met some of their volunteers and talked to them four times the last four days.

The impression I've got from those encounters is by no means a positive one, but it got me interested in "dianetics". I talked to four of the scientologists (and have since then been very amused by their highly queer behaviour), and two of them mentioned dianetics, without actually saying what it is. One of them just mentioned it in passing and ignored my questions about it while the other one explained it in a very odd way.

According to her - the first of the four that I spoke with, by the way, and the one with whom I had the longest and most interesting discussion - dianetics is about hitting people in the back of the head with a hammer and then fill their heads with ethics and morals, as unconscious people hear everything you say to them, and somehow absorb that into their personality.

She didn't put it quite like that, but she easily got side-tracked, repeated herself a lot, searched for words and asked me to enter the tent almost every third sentence. The essence of what she said is as described above, however.

Now, I don't believe that it is the actual procedure when dianetics is... used (?). Well, the part about talking to unconscious people and more or less training them into proper behaviour was a theme she returned to often, and I assume that is part of it, but I have a problem picturing the hammer...^^

However, her strange explanation and the inability for the next three scientologists I talked to to explain it - even their reluctance to even discuss it in one of the cases - made me curious. What IS dianetics about? I have today tried to look it up, but, being totally inept at finding anything useful with a search engine (or maybe born under unfruitful stars?^^) the only thing I seem to find is reviews of books on the subject, and nothing else worthwhile (at least not in languages I comprehend...)

So, having dutifully joined this forum after having read through all of the commentaries, I thought I would ask here if anyone knows anywhere where I could learn about it? I have no intention of ever using it, though. I am aspiring to become a chemistry and biology teacher and would not consider taking the job from a proper doctor, but the discussions (all of which were cut short) aroused my curiosity.

Sincerely,
Daniel

[Ossai]

Dianetics is a book written by L. R. Hubbard and is the basis for scientology.
Try this site
Operation Clambake (http://www.xenu.net )

[arcticpenguin]

BTW, there are some really really bad people in Scientology, right at the top. Do not give these people your real name, address or phone number.

[NoZed Avenger]

Run.

Run fast; run far.


NA

[Kotatsu no tomodachi]

I didn't even give them my real first name when I introduced myself. I am, however, plagued by looking very kind (or gullible?) so whenever I pass them again, they are sure to start talking to me. I attract homeless and charity organisations from across the street (a well-known fact among my friends, though it is hard to proove^^).

They did, however, employ a well-known homeless boy in their handing-out of information. As far as I could tell (which probably isn't even close to the truth), they seemed to pay him in food.

What surprised me the most was how easy they give up. Having talked to other sects, I know that they can sometimes be most persistant, but these simply gave up after a while. Well, not the people I actually talked to, they seemed to be able to go on forever, but the person who was evidently in charge gave up very quickly and called her companions back into the tent.

Daniel

[arcticpenguin]

Scientologists like to isolate their members from the outside world, so they may not be adept at dealing with arguments they are likely to encounter. This is part of their brainwashing, controlling the information their victims have access to.

[Kotatsu no tomodachi]

Hypothetical question:
If I had followed them into the tent when they were conveniently being recalled, and tried to continue the discussion, would they be likely to try to stop me? Or to try to stop the person with whom I was talking to continue the conversation?

You'll have to forgive me if I seem overly ignorant. The reason is that I am. I have run into other religious people before, but never scientologists, and their behaviour was - to me - very strange and unorthrodox for representatives who are sent out to... well save your soul or whatever it is scientologists do. The only thing I gathered from my encounters was that they helped people who were injured without using First Aid and that they dissliked logic, geometry and computers. That, as such, doesn't really help me understand them.

[rustypouch]

You missed one important point: are any of them hot? If so, you must accept the invitation into the tent and then try to hook up with her, always turning the conversation away from scientology.

[Kotatsu no tomodachi]

Hehe, well some of them might have been considered hot to other age-groups than mine or to people who look for other things than I do. They were either over 40 or under 15, neither of which falls into my first choice of partner.^^

However, it wasn't hard to turn the topic over to something else. I didn't even have to try. they did it all by themselves. Strange, in a fashion.

[Agammamon]

Well, in Fallout 2 they used a lot of electric shock therapy.

[plindboe]

A warning. Don't go into that tent. As soon as you enter they will hit you in the back of your head with a hammer to knock you unconcious. When you wake up, you will be a scientologist and moments after you will be in front of the tent passing out leaflets.

Peter ;)

[neutrino_cannon]

Do what you have to to satiate your intrest, but be careful, and as was said before, don't commit to anything, and don't give them any personal information.


Clambake forever!

[Kotatsu no tomodachi]

Hmmm. I already did enter the tent. I was met by a small lady who guided me and my two friends (two physicists) around and was very pleasant and open in the beginning, but once we started disagreeing (for example, none of us thought that 20% could be described as "comparatively few" when it came to people), she became visibly more and more angry. After I read one of their pamphlets and pointed out to her that geometry IS used in a lot of different places in real life, she became so angry that she even refused to admit that a good spot to place a lamp would be over the table where the pamphlets were lying.

There were, sadly, at least two people signing up when we were inside the tent, but I couldn't work up the courage to go and tell them that they were doing the wrong thing, and neither could I really put my thoughts into words, as it seemee likely that they would evict me if I did.

[thaiboxerken]

Like so many other cults, scientologists are there to try and get people to distrust "western medicine", science and (in this case) mathematics. They want you to get away from critical thinking and logical methodology, they want you to be isolated from knowledge outside of their cult. They are there to create, or build on this distrust of "the modern world" in order to suck your bank accounts dry and get you to make them more money. It is a money-driven cult, that is their main goal, to make money. This is one of the most expensive cults to get involved with out there. Some cults want you to kill yourself, others want political power, these nuts just want money.

[Kotatsu no tomodachi]

How much of the things you hear about them is true, then? I mean things like their belief in the Thetans (which I believe look like blue flying octopuses, or is that a fabrication of the over-creative?) and so on? Apart from a leaflet about healing (where back aches were cured by producing a standing wave with your spine, with a seemingly high frequency and an amplitude which spanned that breadth of the back - a condition I would rather NOT find myself in), where a thetan was "seen" leaving teh head of a patient, there was nothing inside the tent or in the discussions with the representatives that even hinted at anything other than that they were there to help people to help people.

[thaiboxerken]

How much of the things you hear about them is true, then?

It's all true. Operation Clambake has it pegged well. They start you off with personality tests and "help" you to become a better person. They don't mention thetans or Xenu right away. After getting you to do their special exercises on a regular basis, they introduce more quackery and unreal things into your life. They are subtle about it, after all, what rich people will join a cult knowing that it's about aliens? The subterfuge of their system makes it look harmless, but after a while, you might end up starved and dehydrated and left for dead.

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/temp/tt961222.htm

[Kotatsu no tomodachi]

Hmmm. If I were to go past them tomorrow (which I most likely will, provided they are still there) and asked them outright about Xenu or the Thetans or so, what would tehir reaction most likely be? By now, the most frequent volunteers there know me and know that I do not want to participate in their sect, but there are always new faces when I pass, and as I look nice and friendly, they will most likely try to engage me in conversation.

But how would they react? Does anyone have first-hand experience of it? Would the lady who recalled the volunteers into the tent rush there and do exactly that? Or would they try to steer the discussion away from those subjects? Or even stop talking to me without anyone cueing them on?

[thaiboxerken]

If you mention thetans, they will likely use the Dianetic approach by making it seem like a biological or psychological term. They'll try to convince you that these are just things that keep people from healing/acting correctly. You will not get them to talk as if they are aliens that possessed your fragile human body, that doesn't come until you have paid lots of money and have been sufficiently brainwashed to accept the story.

If you mention Xenu, you'll likely get kicked out, or at the very least a dirty look. You won't get a meaningful discussion about Xenu.

[UnrepentantSinner]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=dan+garvin+scientology

The above search will give you some information from and about Dan Garvin who spent 25 years in Scientology and dropped out when he finally learned about Xenu. He was a speaker at the JREF Amazing Meeting held in February and his story was fascinating.

If you take the search link above, the first result is an open letter from Dan himself about his experiences.

[justsaygnosis]

Unfortunately it was a long time ago I read this article in US News And World Report concerning the unification church.
Most of their success in recruiting came from people of relatively affluent backgrounds who were primarily raised by nannies, child care centers, boarding schools and prep schools because their parents were busy.
Very rarely did the 'moonies' succeed at picking off a street person due to a street oriented mindset of distrust for what is different from what they understood.
The successful proselytes tended to seek out a tactile familial environment that they didn't receive in their formative years even though their parents provided amply for them.
Humans are social creatures for the most part and will gravitate to social environments that fill their needs.
People who are predisposed to co-dependent behavior should be extremely cautious near cults as recruiters are usually trained in preying on suscepible and vulnerable people.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I've heard the wildly inaccurate but worthy of using statistic that Mormons going door to door have a conversion rate of 1 out of 1000, while Mormons living next door have a conversion rate of 1 out of 10.

[thaiboxerken]

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/introduction.html

Be careful with those scientolgists, they are not a harmless cult, but a violent one.

[Peter Soderqvist]

Scientologi till vardags Om scientologins baksidor
av Catarina Pamnell, f.d. scientolog
http://user.tninet.se/~haj197g/index.html

[CSSMariner]

Burn their tents, stampede their horses and assault their women.