Derek Ogilvie -any info?

[David Colquhoun]

It looks as though I'm going to be up against the "baby mind-reader" Derek Ogilvie on GMTV on next Wednesday 24 May, I'd be grateful for any info about him (normally I stick to quackery)

[Humphreys]

Sorry, I've never heard of him, but I'll make sure I watch the program.

Why are you going to be on GMTV?

What do you mean "up against"?

[JimTheBrit]

Ogilvie is 'The Baby Whisperer' whose PR machine is going all out in the run up to the start of his new series on Five on Monday nights. I'll post some more info here or PM you later in the week, David, regarding Ogilvie's recent TV appearances (thankfully few) and articles.

[Azrael 5]

A baby mind reader! Brilliant! No way of proving his ridiculous claims.I would think a simple "What is the baby's name or birthday?" would suffice to debunk him.

[Kochanski]

It looks as though I'm going to be up against the "baby mind-reader" Derek Ogilvie on GMTV on next Wednesday 24 May, I'd be grateful for any info about him (normally I stick to quackery)

From his website calendar looks like his GMTV schtick is on GMTV, Lorraine Kelly Show interview.

Ooh, ooo, he has a forum, shall we invade :D http://www.derekogilvie.com/forum2/

[gfunkusarelius]

i wish i knew some info, but i am guessing you can watch and read up on any of the standard cold reading proceedures as i am sure he will follow suit. he probably ask the kids name and birthday first, haha.

[MWare]

I looked quickly through the first handful of threads in the forum and interestingly 100% of the posts are from women (at least what appear to be female names). What's this guy got that makes him so good with the ladies? I guess they figure he's good with kids.

BTW - the posts are comedy bordering on psychopathic. Most of these people are talking about their children and their invisible friends and the responders are encouraging these people to feed their kids delusions and then finally take them to a "spiritualist church" (I admittedly have no idea what a spiritualist church is though).

[RSLancastr]

A baby mind reader! Brilliant! No way of proving his ridiculous claims.I would think a simple "What is the baby's name or birthday?" would suffice to debunk him.Umm... Does a baby know his or her name and birth date?

[RSLancastr]

i wish i knew some info, but i am guessing you can watch and read up on any of the standard cold reading proceedures as i am sure he will follow suit. he probably ask the kids name and birthday first, haha.He will of course be primarily cold-reading the parent, not the baby! :)

[Azrael 5]

Umm... Does a baby know his or her name and birth date?

Dunno.I assumed he got information form the baby,so guessed this would be a given.;)

[geni]

I looked quickly through the first handful of threads in the forum and interestingly 100% of the posts are from women (at least what appear to be female names). What's this guy got that makes him so good with the ladies? I guess they figure he's good with kids.


It is true for a lot of these mind-reader, mediums, whatever. Derek Acorah's forum was simular.

[vbloke]

I have taken the good professor's place on the GTMV recording (apparently, they wanted someone more in line with their target audience age) and so far, the information they've sent me on Derek hasn't impressed me at all. His methods appear to be standard cold reading on the parents.

They've promised me a recording of a performance (which I assume will be heavily edited) so I can get a "feel" of his style.

I'm aiming for an angle around "projecting the parents thoughts, wishes and fears onto the child" which could be potentially dangerous for the child if it means an emotional problem is going undiagnosed.

Any thoughts?

[phaedra]

Bearing in mind the likely audience, I think your approach will hit the right note and will appeal to emotion rather than logic. Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of logic it's just that I feel its too strong an approach those likely to be watching.

This whole baby whisperer thing is just a gimmick in a market stuffed full of psychics all with their own angles. The truth is that the baby whisperer reads the parents and not the child - its just common or garden cold reading dressed up in pink or blue diapers!

After one reading a mother commented :


I learnt an awful lot about my baby
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.html?in_article_id=312777&in_page_id=1799&in_a_source=

As a mum myself, I found this most disturbing.This mother should be the single most authority on her own child. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that this guy presumes to interfere and pontificate in the normal intimate and loving bond that exists between a mother and child? And moreover that this silly woman lets him?? The thought of a baby whisperer beggars belief but not so much as the credulous mares that actually think there's something in his drivel. Maybe it plays to new mother's insecurities?

Needless to say this guy is ramping up the hype in time for his new TV show which believe starts next month.

[ImOne]

Good luck. This will be something like debunking a tree whisperer. The baby can't help you. And I doubt you can prove anything one way or the other.

[tkingdoll]

Good luck. This will be something like debunking a tree whisperer. The baby can't help you. And I doubt you can prove anything one way or the other.

This from a woo :rolleyes:

It's not about debunking, it's about giving the viewers both sides of the argument so they will be in posession of at least some of the facts before deciding whether or not to believe the baby reader.

[milesalpha]

After reading that forum I was inclined to scream "Don't let these people breed!"

Everything they describe in the forum reads like pure cold reading, right down to "it works best when there is feedback from the parents". He also has the standard "out clause", if he can't read the baby it is likely because the baby is defending the parents he loves so much.

Oh and he talks to animals as well. Yeesh.

[Mojo]

Oh and he talks to animals as well. Yeesh.Hey, I talk to animals.

The difference is that I'm not deluded enough to think that they talk to me.

[vbloke]

I'll be heading off to the studio soon. I've seen the advance video - nothing but standard cold reading.

This should be interesting...

[Azrael 5]

Will set recorder to tape programme.I wont be up at that ungodly hour!! :)

[Lothian]

If I am not too late.
Touch the baby on an arm , ankle, knee or similar in the mothers presence before the show. On Air ask Derek what part of the baby you touched. Or better still do it all on air !

[vbloke]

It's on today - sometime between 8.30 and 9.30 am UK time - ITV.

I hope I come across OK.

[deBergerac]

Let us know how it went, and good luck.

[Azrael 5]

I only caught two minutes of it sadly,turned on and it was all almost over.So missed any septical questioning.
Heard the back garden statement!! Suprise suprise he's going to be working with Gary Schwartz! SO other than this I didnt see the guy in action.Anyone..?

[vbloke]

It only lasted 2 minutes.
I wasn't allowed to say what I really wanted to say (they vetted me before I went on air) so I was left with very little to work with.

[Azrael 5]

Couldn't you slip in mention of Randi's challenge? ;)

[vbloke]

I was going to, but didn't get chance.
He agreed to do it off air though. I'll be getting in contact with him soon to "remind" him.

[phaedra]

Have just managed to get a look at this - Congratulations vbloke you came across very well. I did like the title 'professional skeptic' - I have heard some poor folk called cynics and all sorts on these intros!

I wished that Derek had gone a little more into the nitty gritty of his understanding of how the process worked regarding baby brainwaves - that would have been classic. Still what he did say was interesting enough;


I connect with babies telepathically so they tell me through three forms. I get pictures, feelings and I hear details and.. its like a big jigsaw puzzle and I just put the details together and erm..try and workout what the baby is trying to say to me. I've got a lot of experience of doing it and that experience really helps in putting everything together.


and later....


LK: The baby's not telling you this by speech?

DO: No no..its just pictures and feelings they also..babies play back movies to me, situations. Maybe mum and dad have been arguing and I'll hear mum and dad arguing from the babies point of view as if through the babies eyes. It's taken me by surprise you know..


to eventually


Mums and dads come to me because they've been to see child psychologists or doctors...Intially when I connect with a child ......you' get slight irrelevancies..[gives a few examples]....
But then we get down to the real nitty gritty details within maybe half an hour or twenty minutes. There's no precise rule. Then you'll get I'm not sleeping at night because mum and dad have a relationship problem and their not dealing with it and I'm scared they are going to break up. ......[continues]


That's one clever kid!!:D

but the best bit


I'm just back from America. I'm studying with a guy called Gary Schwartz at the University of Arizona. He's a Harvard professor. he's a clinical psychologist, he's an expert in cold reading and I've been under clinical examination - tests - at the University of Arizona.......Credibility is everything for me. You know in the book or in my TV series that's coming out credibility is very very important and I totally appreciate Mark's point of view. Infact I'm hoping to work with him in the future.


Goodness Gary Schwartz eh? The man who never met a oddball theory that he couldn't prove. Impressive.

I did feel that GMTV were a little mean on the time with you vbloke. It wasn't a balanced presentation especially with Tamra throwing her twopenneth in - especially in light of what she considered a miraculous hit (stars and moons in the child's bedroom! I think that applies to most small kid's rooms). Wasn't the ratio of time alloted about 5 minutues to Ogilivie and a neasly 30 seconds tops to you? I was only transcribing it all and I was fed up of hearing him bang on about the girl and the jaffa cake incident and the red car blue car. I wanted to hear more about other explanations for this apparent phenomena.

vbloke - Let's hope Derek's promise of 'future work ' comes off for you.

Well done :)

[Azrael 5]

I missed most of it by the looks of phaedra's post! A plant in the back garden,eh? Who would have thought it? What next..grass? :D

[UGBRCE]

Dr whhhhhhhhhhh:idea: oooooooooooo you have such a sad life!
your eye's will end up square,:hypnotize !
that's all you doooo is watch t.v and sit in front of your computer all day!
I think you need some fresh air!

And exercise,give the studio a call....................chance for you to have a chat with a real person........................................

[John Jackson]

A plant in the back garden,eh? Who would have thought it? What next..grass? :D

Ogilvie actually stated that a plant had been moved from one side of the garden to the other - this was accurate and the woman confirmed this.

Real psychic power?

Well, vbloke was talking to the make-up girl before the filming took place and she told him that Ogilvie had visited the woman's house the week before. ;)

Vbloke did very well considering it was his first time on TV and, unsurprisingly, he was given very little time.

[Ryokan]

Ogilvie? Isn't that the astronomer in War of the Worlds?

[vbloke]

Dr whhhhhhhhhhh:idea: oooooooooooo you have such a sad life!
your eye's will end up square,:hypnotize !
that's all you doooo is watch t.v and sit in front of your computer all day!
I think you need some fresh air!

And exercise,give the studio a call....................chance for you to have a chat with a real person........................................

I take it that you're referring here to me?

Is that all you can do - insult and insinuate? It's a very poor show on your behalf - you come across as an idiot.

Meanwhile, people like me actually take the time to meet these self-proclaimed psychics, watch them at work and do our homework.

I found it highly amusing that he was describing a bush in their garden "psychically", when in the pre-recorded piece, you could see the bush through the window of their house - a house that he had visited prior to the show. How is that psychic?

If you have nothing constructive to add to this debate, please don't bother - simply adding childish insults makes you appear like a simple child.

[tkingdoll]

Dr whhhhhhhhhhh:idea: oooooooooooo you have such a sad life!
your eye's will end up square,:hypnotize !
that's all you doooo is watch t.v and sit in front of your computer all day!
I think you need some fresh air!

And exercise,give the studio a call....................chance for you to have a chat with a real person........................................

What in hell's name are you talking about?

Oh wait, are you saying you have psychic powers? You obviously heard that Dr Woo was on TV as a professional skeptic, so you want him to test your powers. You are demonstrating your remote reading powers and want a critical assessment, yes?

Hey everyone, UGBRCE wants us to tell him what we think of him!

Now, where to begin...

[blutoski]

A baby mind reader! Brilliant! No way of proving his ridiculous claims.I would think a simple "What is the baby's name or birthday?" would suffice to debunk him.

Nah. It's like the pet psychics:

Psychic: "He says his name is Michael"
Parent: "Uh... his name is Scott"
Psychic: "Yes, that's his earthly name, but he prefers his spirit name: Michael."


Psychic: "His birthday is June 22nd."
Parent: "Uh... his birthday is June 5th."
Psychic: "Yes, in this life, but he's too young to know that. He is mostly aware of his last life, because he lived it for 78 years, and when you ask about his birthday, that's the most recent memory available. Of course, he will gradually forget this previous life, and learn what he needs to in order to be your son in this one."


There's no debunking the smart ones, but an audience of people with common-sense will smell bullcrap if you ask the right questions and prompt the right answers.

[Azrael 5]

This guy is on UK Channel 5 right now until 10pm.Missed first half,didn't know it was on!! Obviously no-one lese on here did either!! ;)

[Thing]

Me and Mrs Thing caught about five minutes and had to switch over to avoid apoplexy. A youngish mother had a badly behaved child. This sorry excuse for a person told her that it was because she had been raped as a teenager (which she had, he must have cold read or found out somehow, it looked heavily edited) and that the child was misbehaving because she (the child) was scared that she'd get raped when she was older. Way to mess with a mother's head! What a shameful way to make a living, I was disgusted.

[Azrael 5]

Is this a series(another forum suggested it was),on there I suggested a nice test for him.
Take child/baby out for the day to a zoo for example(unbeknown to Ogilvie)then simply have him disclose where they went from the baby's mind!!

[John Jackson]

We're following the series with comments by yours truly :D

http://www.ukskeptics.com/commentary_display.php?d=The_baby_mind_reader

I find this type of programme very exploitative of the people who are involved. That's not to say that they're exploitative only when psychics are involved but exploitative per se.

The point where Derek Ogilvie told the child's mother that her baby daughter had a fear of being raped when she got older was a particularly disgusting thing to come out with and illustrates the depths that these self-proclaimed psychics will stoop to. :mad:

The programme seems to have been largely slated in the press.

[Thing]

Does anyone have access to the credits of this programme? I think the producer and maybe a few other key personnel should be be named and shamed.

[phaedra]

Redback Films are the culprits. I sent them an email as soon as I'd viewed it asking a few pointed questions.

With this only being the first of four episodes I really doubt whether they will reply but still it still felt good to get things off my chest.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I also (literally) forced myself to watch this.

While a programme like Britains Best Psychic was a bit of a comedy affair, this was pure exploitation of very vulnerable people, the same type of people I imagine would be comfortable sharing their deepest secrets on daytime trash talk shows.

I was not impressed, but at the very basic level the programme was dull, badly made, and unpalatable. Mr Ogilvie also came across as a bit of a slimy character, witness the amount of times he couldn't even look at the camera or the person he was talking to. His eyes were always off in the distance whilst he thought up the next lie.

I can't imagine the ratings for this will do anything other than plunge.

[Azrael 5]

Another hour of my life wasted! What utter dross this programme is,generally psychic programmes do entertain us skeptics a little but this is just beyond contempt.
Baby has temper tantrums,parents live in "a tip" (not connected then?) looks like baby never gets out of the house due to Mother being a lazy fat good for nothing(alledgedly)..oh and baby gorges on fizzy juice which makes her hyperactive.Wakes in the night...
See the connections yet?
Along comes Ogilvie,mumbles about "the front door not shutting right" How did he get into the house so as not to see this?
"A leaky patch on the roof" See above.
"She's been having tantrums..something about balloons...blah blah.Has she been drinking some red/orangy juice? Well its making her hyper.."
And so on into boredom.
Upshot: parents throw junk out into a skip,get out more and cut out the red/orangy juice.Result: child has a few less tantrums and still wakes in the night-"but goes back to sleep".

Nothing a G.P couldn't have diagnosed,or general common sense.Roll on next week for more of same. :(