Sai Baba -FAKE, All my family believe in him except me

[waterwater]

I have seen how said baba is fake, and my family who have also read and seen TV programmes of him still believe in him, I am probably the only person that does not believe in this fake man. Even some of my friends believe in him.

I got an aunty who quotes what said baba says when she talks.

I so much want to tell them its all rubbish, but everyone would be against me if I said that.

[kieran]

Holding a belief that differs from that of those around you, especially close people like your family, is a difficult position to be in. This is particularly true in any cultures that are extremely family centered.

I am curious to know: Why is your belief so different from your family and friends? Do you have access to different information to them? Or are you interpreting the same information differently?

[thaiboxerken]

Ask your mom why Sai Baba produces watches from "heaven" that are clearly labelled "Casio" on them. You can also tell them they're stupid.

[waterwater]

Holding a belief that differs from that of those around you, especially close people like your family, is a difficult position to be in. This is particularly true in any cultures that are extremely family centered.

I am curious to know: Why is your belief so different from your family and friends? Do you have access to different information to them? Or are you interpreting the same information differently?


No idea, why i hold these beliefs.
Nope access to same information.
My cool teacher didnt believe in god like me, and he just use to go to the temple, just to please the wife.
probaly only very few of my friends, and very few reltives hold the same belifes i do.
i tewll my mom sai baba is fake, and there magic tricks she just doesnt beleive me.

[thaiboxerken]

Maybe you can learn the magic tricks and then do them yourself.

[hh-dragon]

Here is a good collection of articles critical of Sai Baba:

http://www.rickross.com/groups/saibaba.html

There is a lot of information about sexual abuse there that may help you persuade others to raise their own questions.

[waterwater]

Maybe you can learn the magic tricks and then do them yourself.

I already can do the magic tricks

[aggle-rithm]

Maybe you can learn the magic tricks and then do them yourself.

I predict he would just hear special pleading from his family: "Sure, when you do it, it's a trick, but when Sai Baba does it, it's a MIRACLE!"

[thaiboxerken]

Have you shown your mom the powers that a god gave you?

[waterwater]

I predict he would just hear special pleading from his family: "Sure, when you do it, it's a trick, but when Sai Baba does it, it's a MIRACLE!"


EXACTLY

[patnray]

This is a difficult situation because he is using people's faith and religious beliefs to con them. Since he has wrapped himself in the mantle those beliefs, attacking him can be perceived as an attack on the underlying faith. So first try opening their eyes to a more neutral subject over a period of time.

Get them to acknowledge that there are people in the world who make a living out of conning and scamming other people. Show them that these people operate by gaining the trust of their victims. Find a few non-religious examples (the Nigerian money launderers, perhaps...). DIscuss this over a period of time.

Then get them to acknowledge that the worst kind of con artists are the ones who use peoples' religious faith to scam them. See if you can find a few examples from faiths different than your family's faith. Try to get them to examine why people fall for such obvious scams. Using examples from a different faith makes in less personal and easier for your family to examine the motivations of both the victims and the scammer. In particular, get them to discuss how the scammer uses peoples' faith as a weapon against them while pretending to share that faith. Ask them what kinds of questions or tests or knowledge the victims should have used to prevent being scammed. Get them to agree that they should use these same tests to protect themselves from being victims.

Finally, point out the similarities between these scammers and Sai Baba, and emphasize that his being a con artist in no way reflects on them or their faith. In fact, they have a duty to their faith to protect it from people who use it to defraud peoople.

Don't expect 100% success. But you might get a few members of your family to see the light...

[bluess]

Patnray - nominated.

A very kind approach to dealing with one's family.

[patnray]

Thanks. I can sympathize with undersecter.

My step son is engaged to a woman whose sister is married to one of the founders of a large nutritional suppliment company. I am constantly exposed to crap like "Doctors only treat symptoms" and "The drug companies are suppressing natural cures because they can't make money selling them" and "Natural products don't have any side effects".

What I want to say is "Your products don't even do that" and "Then how did you get so rich selling them?" and "Then why is your company under indictment for lying to the FDA about adverse reactions to one of your products?" But I hold my tongue for the sake of family peace and limit myself to small steps to open their eyes a little at a time.

[orphia nay]

Welcome to the forum, undersecter.

Excellent suggestions, patnray.

About a year ago, in a forum I used to post in, I noticed one poster had been adding to her thread of quotes from Sai Baba's discourses for a couple of years. I'd only heard rumours of bad things about the man, so I started a different thread, posting a list of sites critical of him. A number of posters were grateful for the information, as they'd been skeptical of his claims, but that one woman refused to believe any of it, just because it was 'on the net'. She was basically saying that if you listen to his teachings, and believe in his miracles, then you will understand how none of the allegations could be true. I gave up debating her, as she was apparently brainwashed. However, she did not continue to update her thread of discourses. [Just checked, and she has only bumped her thread the other day for the 'benefit' of another poster.]

I guess the lesson is, blatant accusations and criticism may have a subtle effect initially (even though accompanied by vehement defence and foxholing), but as patnray suggests, raising examples of other frauds might inspire individual rational thinking that may have lifelong benefits.

We need to think of some frauds undersecter can refer to. Sai Baba has been accused of paedophilia, and also murder. In 'my' thread, another poster compared Sai Baba to the Jonestown cult. Then there's Heaven's Gate. Perhaps you could also draw parallels to the abuse committed by some Catholic priests.

When I think of Sai Baba, I think of the movie 'Man on the Moon', particularly the ending. The woman I mentioned may think there's no harm in revering his teachings, but when you put your life into a fraudster's hands, there are grave risks.

I've noticed that most of Sai Baba's discourses in English contain many words and phrases in Hindi (Sanskrit?). I see the adoration of his followers as like a young girl being willingly seduced by an older lover who is using bad French phrases to woo her.


If you need any more on-line resources on Sai Baba, I've found these to be handy:
http://www.skepdic.com/saibaba.html
http://www.indian-skeptic.org/html/index.htm (Especially the 'Gurus' page)
http://www.saiguru.net/english/last_updates/shadow.htm

Sites dealing with recovery & rehabilitation from cults:
http://www.csj.org/
http://www.ex-cult.org/

Blog and forum of cult expert Rick Ross:
http://www.cultnews.com/
http://forum.rickross.com/

I wish you well in your endeavours, undersecter, and hope you enjoy it here.

[waterwater]

Welcome to the forum, undersecter.

Excellent suggestions, patnray.

About a year ago, in a forum I used to post in, I noticed one poster had been adding to her thread of quotes from Sai Baba's discourses for a couple of years. I'd only heard rumours of bad things about the man, so I started a different thread, posting a list of sites critical of him. A number of posters were grateful for the information, as they'd been skeptical of his claims, but that one woman refused to believe any of it, just because it was 'on the net'. She was basically saying that if you listen to his teachings, and believe in his miracles, then you will understand how none of the allegations could be true. I gave up debating her, as she was apparently brainwashed. However, she did not continue to update her thread of discourses. [Just checked, and she has only bumped her thread the other day for the 'benefit' of another poster.]

I guess the lesson is, blatant accusations and criticism may have a subtle effect initially (even though accompanied by vehement defence and foxholing), but as patnray suggests, raising examples of other frauds might inspire individual rational thinking that may have lifelong benefits.

We need to think of some frauds undersecter can refer to. Sai Baba has been accused of paedophilia, and also murder. In 'my' thread, another poster compared Sai Baba to the Jonestown cult. Then there's Heaven's Gate. Perhaps you could also draw parallels to the abuse committed by some Catholic priests.

When I think of Sai Baba, I think of the movie 'Man on the Moon', particularly the ending. The woman I mentioned may think there's no harm in revering his teachings, but when you put your life into a fraudster's hands, there are grave risks.

I've noticed that most of Sai Baba's discourses in English contain many words and phrases in Hindi (Sanskrit?). I see the adoration of his followers as like a young girl being willingly seduced by an older lover who is using bad French phrases to woo her.


If you need any more on-line resources on Sai Baba, I've found these to be handy:
http://www.skepdic.com/saibaba.html
http://www.indian-skeptic.org/html/index.htm (Especially the 'Gurus' page)
http://www.saiguru.net/english/last_updates/shadow.htm

Sites dealing with recovery & rehabilitation from cults:
http://www.csj.org/
http://www.ex-cult.org/

Blog and forum of cult expert Rick Ross:
http://www.cultnews.com/
http://forum.rickross.com/

I wish you well in your endeavours, undersecter, and hope you enjoy it here.


Hi, yeah when I criticise said baba to my mum or brother, they always come up with the famous quote of look at all the good he has done e.g. for the poor.

I went to a Muslim conference weeks ago, and at the end there was pizza ordered from pizza hut, drink, cakes sweets etc all free at the end....
Someone guy ask me what religion I was I said Hindu he goes in name or practice I said practice, then he went on about how some ppl are just Hindu in name and don’t practice.

I am really Hindu(jain) just in name and don’t even believe in any religion,but I think there would have been a uproar if I said that there.

[RSLancastr]

Hi, yeah when I criticise said baba to my mum or brother, they always come up with the famous quote of look at all the good he has done e.g. for the poor.Even if it is true that he has done good for the poor, this is a logical fallacy. Just because a person does one thing right/good, it does not mean that other things that person does are right/good.

A frequently-used response to statements like "Yes, but he does so much for the poor." is "Yes, and Hitler made the trains run on time."