7-Up Commercial: "All Natural"

[Admiral]

A new commercial for 7-Up got me a bit riled-

It shows workers picking 7-Up cans from trees, placing them in baskets, growing them in groves of 7-Up, etc... Then it ended with the phrase: "7-Up: Now all natural!"

This is a sickeningly misleading claim. All that the "all natural ingredients" label means is that the chemicals in it are created by processing plants and animals rather than through chemical reactions. The actual products (Carbonated water, high fructose corn syrup, natural citric acid, natural flavors, and potassium citrate) are EXACTLY the same whether they're "natural" or "artificial"- they're not "fresher" or "organic." The only differences are that these processes are more expensive, and actually make it more likely that contaminants show up.

There's no doubt, though, that this marketing campaign is going to attract health nuts ("Anything that's natural can't be unhealthy!") and good old down-to-earth people ("It comes from God's green earth!") These perceptions are just ridiculous. 7-Up is still unhealthy: it still contains high fructose corn syrup (just like mother used to make.) It's still made in factories through complex processes.

If people would learn a little chemistry, and think a little more critically about the claims these companies make, maybe companies wouldn't keep pandering to the gullible.

[Dilb]

Out of curiosity, what makes you think that high fructose corn syrup is particularily unhealthy? Myself, I could do without the sugar in general, but I don't understand why glucose and fructose is aparently so much worse than sucrose.

[tkingdoll]

I have read that fructose consumption leads to production in the liver of an enzyme (PDH) that increases fat production and cholesterol which leads to triglyceridemia, decreased glucose tolerance and hyperinsulinemia.

Unlike sucrose, fructose mimics insulin's ability to to cause the liver to release fatty acids into the bloodstream, leading to muscle tissue developing insulin resistance. It also damages the artery wall.

So I've read, anyway.

[Dilb]

I have read that fructose consumption leads to production in the liver of an enzyme (PDH) that increases fat production and cholesterol which leads to triglyceridemia, decreased glucose tolerance and hyperinsulinemia.

Unlike sucrose, fructose mimics insulin's ability to to cause the liver to release fatty acids into the bloodstream, leading to muscle tissue developing insulin resistance. It also damages the artery wall.

So I've read, anyway.

The problem I have with that is that sucrose is broken down by sucrase in the small intestine, before absorption into the bloodstream. Then you have 50-50 glucose-fructose, compared to 45-55 glucose-fructose. I suppose there could be different absorption rates, but I don't think that would be a major concern.

Also, this study on rats (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/11/3379) (if I understand it correctly, and it's a bit beyond me) seems to show fructose does lead to some sort of bad effects, but it has to be a very large part of the diet. They eliminated starch entirely from the rats given fructose or honey, which would not represent the real ratios of glucose to fructose after everything has been broken into monosaccharide.

[Admiral]

My biggest issue isn't with the health effects of the drink- it's a soft drink, it's just plain not going to be nutritious- it's with the falsity of the advertising campaign.

Natural flavors aren't any healthier than artificial flavors- in fact, they're chemically the same. Cinnamaldehyde, which is the flavouring used to create the cinnamon taste that lots of candy and cereal producers use, can be produced naturally from cinnamon bark or artificially from the condensation of benzaldehyde and acetaldehyde (C6H5HO + CH3CHO -> C6H5C2H2CHO +H2O).

Same chemical, same health effects- but still people prefer the one that was "naturally" produced. It's kind of like the "holistic" approach that leads some to alternative medicine- what's actually going on is too complicated to understand, so let's base our philosophy on something simple, natural, and wrong.

[Hawk one]

Hmmm...

Aren't all real sugars still produced by extracting it from plants?

And aren't water found all over in nature?

Since those two are the main ingredients in any soft drink, how hard can it be to make an "all natural" flavour?

[EGarrett]

Don't know if you guys read Zug, but this reminds me of the time the guy who runs that site decided to do a humor-article where he'd taste a bunch of products that weren't meant to be eaten and compare them.

What he decided, INCREDIBLY STUPIDLY, was that anything labeled "all-natural" was thus safe for him to eat. He's extremely fortunate that the stuff he was swallowing didn't send him to the hospital or kill him.

Snake venom and poison ivy are both "all-natural," so are some other poisons that will kill a person in minutes...

[Bob Klase]

There's no doubt, though, that this marketing campaign is going to attract health nuts ("Anything that's natural can't be unhealthy!")

Hemlock being another good healthy natural product.

[Rob Lister]

I couldn't work up a care about this. I see it every time I turn on the tv. Somebody is claiming something (by implication) that just ain't so.
In the end, Darwin will win.

[Admiral]

In the end, Darwin will win.

Not really. The people that win are often the marketing firms that come up with these ways to exploit people, or the pharmacies that sell woo products, or the politicians that use the population's religious beliefs to gain power...

It's true that it's the intelligent people that will accomplish the most (It won't be corrupt CEOs that discover the cure for cancer), and I guess that's sort of a win.

[Diamond]

I've got a book called "How to Kill your spouse the Natural Way", which deals with the hidden dangers in natural foods, some of which are extremely nasty and toxic.

You'd love it.

[marting]

According to the Wiki, 7-UP contained lithium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Up

Lithium citrate was removed from 7 Up's formula in 1950. One can easily speculate that the name comes from the atomic weight of Li combined with its psychotropic effects. It was launched a few weeks after the '29 market crash. Good timing.

[tkingdoll]

Also, this study on rats (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/11/3379) (if I understand it correctly, and it's a bit beyond me) seems to show fructose does lead to some sort of bad effects, but it has to be a very large part of the diet. They eliminated starch entirely from the rats given fructose or honey, which would not represent the real ratios of glucose to fructose after everything has been broken into monosaccharide.



Fructose constitutes 20% of the average American child's diet. That strikes me as large part.

[neil]

Is carbon dioxide that is a byproduct of making liquid air, a natural ingredient? Is the city water used to make the 7 up a natural ingredient? Is refined sugar a natural ingredient? If yes, Why isn't the lithium compound a natural ingredient? If yes, please give an example of an unnatural ingredient. Neil

[Rob Lister]

Not really. The people that win are often the marketing firms that come up with these ways to exploit people, or the pharmacies that sell woo products, or the politicians that use the population's religious beliefs to gain power...

It's true that it's the intelligent people that will accomplish the most (It won't be corrupt CEOs that discover the cure for cancer), and I guess that's sort of a win.

What does Darwin have to do with smart? Corrupt? Heck, if you can't define them, Darwin won't do it for you. IOW, Darwin has it's own goal (which is, no goal at all).

[Alkatran]

Hold on, when they say all-natural they mean "the same molecules, made differently"?! I always thought it meant they, at least, used different molecules. I didn't think they were 'better' by default, but I thought the composition CHANGED!?!

GAH!

Now I have to find an old 7-up and a new 7-up and compare the labels.

[Admiral]

Hold on, when they say all-natural they mean "the same molecules, made differently"?! I always thought it meant they, at least, used different molecules. I didn't think they were 'better' by default, but I thought the composition CHANGED!?!

GAH!

Now I have to find an old 7-up and a new 7-up and compare the labels.

I didn't mean to be misleading- I didn't mean that is is necessarily the same exact ingredients. They did change two, as I just found on wikipedia.


In 2006 the product was re-formulated so that it could be marketed as being "100% Natural" in the United States. This was achieved by eliminating the preservative calcium disodium EDTA, and replacing sodium citrate with potassium citrate to reduce the beverage's sodium content[6]. This re-formulation contains no fruit juice and is still sweetened with high fructose corn syrup (HFCS). HFCS is a cheaper, longer shelf-life substitute for cane or beet sugar and the result of a complex industrial process by which starch is extracted from corn and converted by acids or enzymes into glucose and fructose. The manufacturing process needed for HFCS has led some public health and special interest groups to challenge the ad campaign's "natural" claims.

To me, though, the idea that no longer including calcium disodium EDTA makes a soda "natural" when, as we've seen, the distinction is so trivial, just seems misleading to me.

My issue's not only with 7-Up, though- it's mostly with the system that distinguishes "natural" and "artificial" flavors and preservatives. It's used to connote meanings that don't exist. What's more, if calcium disodium EDTA makes it a better product, concerns that they want to market it as "all-natural" shouldn't cause them to take it out.

Anyway, 100% natural definitely doesn't mean it's a good old homegrown drink, like their commercials are trying to imply...

Edit-Fixed typo.

[strathmeyer]

Out of curiosity, what makes you think that high fructose corn syrup is particularily unhealthy? Myself, I could do without the sugar in general, but I don't understand why glucose and fructose is aparently so much worse than sucrose.

Because of the people I know who do and don't consume it, and because of its affects on my body.

[thaiboxerken]

I know of no soft drinks that use supernatural ingredients.

[clarsct]

I know of no soft drinks that use supernatural ingredients.\

Red Bull: It Gives You Wings!

[Art Vandelay]

If people would learn a little chemistry, and think a little more critically about the claims these companies make, maybe companies wouldn't keep pandering to the gullible.Pandering to the gullible is the job description of marketing people.

Fructose constitutes 20% of the average American child's diet. That strikes me as large part. That's a rather meaningless statement.

Hold on, when they say all-natural they mean "the same molecules, made differently"?! I always thought it meant they, at least, used different molecules. I didn't think they were 'better' by default, but I thought the composition CHANGED!?!Surely whether something is "natural" should not depend on whether it can be synthesized, no?

[Dilb]

Fructose constitutes 20% of the average American child's diet. That strikes me as large part.

Huh, while I can't find information for children, sugar+corn syrup does seem to make up an impressively large percentage of an average American diet. Finding out the average American diet has problems is hardly shocking, though. I'm really more interested in the difference between sucrose and high fructose corn syrup, though.

Because of the people I know who do and don't consume it, and because of its affects on my body.

That's allright for a personal reason to not consume it, but I'd like to know if there's any evidence it's actually worse than sucrose.

[steenkh]

Natural flavors aren't any healthier than artificial flavors- in fact, they're chemically the same. Cinnamaldehyde, which is the flavouring used to create the cinnamon taste that lots of candy and cereal producers use, can be produced naturally from cinnamon bark or artificially from the condensation of benzaldehyde and acetaldehyde (C6H5HO + CH3CHO -> C6H5C2H2CHO +H2O).
You are right if we speak about the pure substances. But the natural substances often contain other chemicals that enhance the main ingredient. I do not know much about cinnamon, but for vanilla, there is no doubt that the actual seeds of dried vanilla stalks taste better than pure vanillin.

[jon]

That's allright for a personal reason to not consume it, but I'd like to know if there's any evidence it's actually worse than sucrose.

Is the fructose in high fructose corn syrup different from what's in fruit, or is it just a matter of quantity? Is eating a lot of fructose from, say, fresh fruit/smoothies/juices etc better than eating lots of fructose from high fructose corn syrup?

Anyway, it's tempting to say that people should be bright enough to know that a 'natural' 7up still isn't a health food... Then again, I remember one UK paper (the Mail, I think) running a shock story that organic chocolate cookies contained - amazingly - lots of fat and sugar :rolleyes:

[tkingdoll]

Is the fructose in high fructose corn syrup different from what's in fruit, or is it just a matter of quantity? Is eating a lot of fructose from, say, fresh fruit/smoothies/juices etc better than eating lots of fructose from high fructose corn syrup?



yes, it is different (it's processed by the body differently), but it's safe to say that consuming any sugar in large quantities is bad for you.

[strathmeyer]

it's safe to say that consuming any sugar in large quantities is bad for you.

Unfortunately, large isn't really that large. A 20 ounce Coke has 100% your USRDA of sugar.

[Badger]

Unfortunately, large isn't really that large. A 20 ounce Coke has 100% your USRDA of sugar.

I've been reading packaging of what I think I want to buy at the grocery store. To me, there seems to be a lot of sugar in everything from salad dressing to chili to nacho dip to pretty much everything on the shelves.

So, while people may limit themselves to the 1 coke a day, they'll get a bunch more hidden sugar in their diet from other less obvious sources.

[tkingdoll]

I've been reading packaging of what I think I want to buy at the grocery store. To me, there seems to be a lot of sugar in everything from salad dressing to chili to nacho dip to pretty much everything on the shelves.

So, while people may limit themselves to the 1 coke a day, they'll get a bunch more hidden sugar in their diet from other less obvious sources.

Absolutely true. Salt, too. I avoid that by making my own everything (except ketchup and HP sauce).

[Dilb]

yes, it is different (it's processed by the body differently), but it's safe to say that consuming any sugar in large quantities is bad for you.

How can fructose from fruit be different? Either way it's a simple sugar dissolved in water.

[jon]

Absolutely true. Salt, too. I avoid that by making my own everything (except ketchup and HP sauce).

Thanks for the info. Make most of my own stuff too, which does help keep down the amount of sugar I eat (don't make cakes as can buy nicer ones, but those would have lots of sugar whether or not I made my own :D )

No wonder coke tastes so sweet, anyway...

[gfunkusarelius]

thanks, i hope you're all happy now. i was gonna buy some because i thought it would taste different. now i wont

[stup_id]

It is theorized that Fructose is actually more energetic than glucose, because altough being both monosacarids fructose is a sustrate of a "lower" reaction in the glucolytic metabolic pathway, one of the crucial steps in regulating that pathway is the conversion of glucose 6 phospate to fructose 6 phosphate and posteriously to fructose1,6 bisphosphate.

This also leads that it can enter the Pentose-Phospate-cycle metabolic pathway more readily.

Supposedly this results in more availability for the liver to synthetize fat-oils and to increase the oxidative stress in the mitochondria (although to be sincere I don't know exactly what is the mechanism.. it may have to be with more utilization of electronic mediator in energy metabolism)

At least that is what I can remember from my old medical biochemistry classes haha!

Ciao!

[epepke]

I have read that fructose consumption leads to production in the liver of an enzyme (PDH) that increases fat production and cholesterol which leads to triglyceridemia, decreased glucose tolerance and hyperinsulinemia.

Unlike sucrose, fructose mimics insulin's ability to to cause the liver to release fatty acids into the bloodstream, leading to muscle tissue developing insulin resistance. It also damages the artery wall.

Kinda funny, because when I was growing up, everyone thought that sucrose was evil and fructose was good.

Also, black pepper was evil (because it was supposed to be an irritant, but in fact doesn't do anything bad), and spearmint tea was good (in spite of the fact that it does irritate the stomach lining). And people with ulcers were directed to have a bland diet high in cream and butter.

Anyway, 7-Up is bland carbonated sugar water. If they want to sell more of it by saying that it's all natural, fine.

[tkingdoll]

Thanks for the info. Make most of my own stuff too, which does help keep down the amount of sugar I eat (don't make cakes as can buy nicer ones, but those would have lots of sugar whether or not I made my own :D )

No wonder coke tastes so sweet, anyway...

Gah, I can't tolerate full-sugar colas, waaaay too sweet. Equally, I find most convenience meals (e.g. frozen lasagne) far too salty now, though years ago I lived on them.

[Diamond]

In my local supermarket, they sell "High Juice" squash. If you look at the ingredients it's 50% sugar!

I buy the "no sugar added" squash and its 0.5% sugar (and I don't like sugary drinks anyway)

[jon]

Gah, I can't tolerate full-sugar colas, waaaay too sweet. Equally, I find most convenience meals (e.g. frozen lasagne) far too salty now, though years ago I lived on them.

Yeah, I don't tend to like the sweet taste of sodas any more, and do find ready meals often taste too salty/sweet. tbh, not sure how much of that is psychological, though - I do like eating pretty salty cheeses or smoked meat/fish, and very sweet baklavah or battenberg cake...obviously those are 'naturally' salty/sweet, though ;)

[Art Vandelay]

In my local supermarket, they sell "High Juice" squash. If you look at the ingredients it's 50% sugar!

I buy the "no sugar added" squash and its 0.5% sugar (and I don't like sugary drinks anyway)Your squash has an ingredients list?

I rather doubt that there's any squash with less than 1% sugar (although, again, that's not exactly a meaningful number).