Losing the war? (no, not that one)

[eri]

I recently moved from the northern US to South Carolina. ID is starting to push it's way into an otherwise highly praised science curriculum (top four of the Fordham Foundation's List). Although it's being kept at bay through the efforts of local activists, I've been seeing a trend towards the belief in pseudoscience, paranormal, and non-science.

To that end, I decided to start a campus club for Skepticism. To do so, I needed 12 signatures from current students - not students who would necessarily join, just students who thought it was either a good idea or at least supported my right to start the group.

I'm a grad student, and I don't know any undergrads (and since graduation was last week, campus is pretty empty). No prob, I thought - there are plenty of physics grads here.

Three days later, I'm still a signature short, and had several people outright refuse to sign the petition. Future physicists of America, refusing to support critical thinking. One of my friends signed, not because he agreed, but out of friendship, but made sure to point out to me that 'Evolution is only a theory - not a fact.' This from a PhD candidate.

How much damage has the ID movement caused? When a future scientist (ok, physicist, not biologist, but still) can't - or won't - defend scientific theory?

Just more evidence that the Skeptic club may be a necessity on this campus. One signature to go ...


(sorry for the rant, but it's been bothering me all day)

[Gravy]

eri,

I always find that a little Whitman helps at times like these. An excerpt from "Song of Myself" (http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/logr/log_026.html)

I understand the large hearts of heroes,
The courage of present times and all times,
How the skipper saw the crowded and rudderless wreck of the steamship, and Death chasing it up and down the storm,
How he knuckled tight and gave not back an inch, and was faithful of days and faithful of nights,
And chalked in large letters on a board, Be of good cheer, we will not desert you;
How he followed with them and tacked with them three days and would not give it up,
How he saved the drifting company at last,
How the lank loose-gowned women looked when boated from the side of their prepared graves,
How the silent old-faced infants, and the lifted sick, and the sharp-lipped unshaved men;
All this I swallow, it tastes good, I like it well, it becomes mine,
I am the man, I suffered, I was there.
That's you with chalk in hand. The other ship was built over centuries by the heroes of critical thinking, free expression, and scientific inquiry, but has suffered from neglect and is in danger of foundering. It may be a while before you can rescue those passengers. We tend to think of heroic deeds as being sudden, like smothering a live grenade, but most are more akin to raising a child. Be steadfast. Revel in the good fight. Years from now some of those old-faced infants will be old-faced adults, and will look back on your efforts with gratitude. You are a hero.

Also, have you considered posting flyers and placing free ads?

[eri]

Thanks, Gravy. I'm printing out that poem.

Posters come next - looks like I need an actual org before I can start flyering campus. But rest assured, come September, there will be a lot of p*ssed off fundies on campus. That's the goal, anyway. The other people in my office seem to think I'm setting myself up to be the most hated person on campus.

And I suppose I have the whole summer to find one more signature...

[gfunkusarelius]

that is utterly unbelievable. what did your petition say that would even prompt his reply? i'm sorry, i have an uncle who is a creationist and i am still amazed when i hear an adult with a college education arguing for creationism...seems so foreign to me, even being raised in the church! what school ar you at? i could get 12 signatures from my work in 15 minutes and we dont even have a ton of employees!

[Ramooone]

greg graffin, the lead singer of bad religion did his phd dissertation on religion and evolutionary biology.
heres video of an interview with him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=obZNtCzxfAk&search=greg%20graffin

he states that religion is a product of evolution.

[capall]

'Evolution is only a theory - not a fact.' This from a PhD candidate.
I know how you feel I am a graduate student myself (in Texas) one of friends in the same program as me works in a lab doing research in developmental genetics and does not believe in evolution. :confused:

[Ramooone]

I know how you feel I am a graduate student myself (in Texas) one of friends in the same program as me works in a lab doing research in developmental genetics and does not believe in evolution. :confused:

thats possible?

how do they do their research?

[Tarot_Is_A_Card_Game!]

In today's broadcast media environment, i don't find it hard to believe. The average American is seldom exposed to evolution outside of academic settings. Meanwhile, institutions such as churches and talk radio have been pounding the ID and creationist messages to the masses.

[Alkatran]

My friend at university is in microbiology and immunology and doubts evolution.

Well, non-God evolution. He does believe that species have changed over time, he just thinks the 'bigger steps' required God.

[Zep]

I LOVE it when I read this! It means our future scientists will get all the work, and not these misguided people!

Thanks!

[tkingdoll]

I think the worst that will happen is these future scientists will get so far with their research and hit a brick wall, then have to retrace their steps and re-discover evolution.

Might be a setback for science in America, but Asian countries will just wildy overtake you and become the world superpower like in Firefly. :D

[capall]

thats possible?

how do they do their research?
I know it is hard to believe, her PI nearly did not take her into his lab in the beginning because of her beliefs, how she reconciles her beliefs and what she sees every day is a mystery to me. Originally she was a creationist, I think she has mellowed to intelligent design now though.

[eri]

"Mellowed to ID" - that's pretty funny. I'm at Clemson University, where the graduate physics program includes several graduates of Bob Jones University. (CU has a good program, they just don't do much in the way of recruiting, it seems.)

It always amazes me that some scientists can be so quick to defend their own field of study and not be willing to jump to the defense of another area of scientific study. Evolution has a lot more evidence to support it than quantum mechanics (in terms of fossils and genetic evidence, at least - although QM is very well supported mathematically) - but most people I meet are much more likely to believe in string theory than evolution (string theory is pretty much untestable).

I think the problem is that we made evolution too easy to understand - now every thinks they are well-educated enough in the theory to criticize it. Maybe biologists should do what most physicists do - "It's too complicated for you to understand, just leave it up to us." :D

[Miss Whiplash]

"Mellowed to ID" - that's pretty funny. I'm at Clemson University, where the graduate physics program includes several graduates of Bob Jones University. (CU has a good program, they just don't do much in the way of recruiting, it seems.)




I take it you are not familiar with Bob Jones University. This is a fundimentalist Christian university. It's also one of the most conservative religious schools in the United States. Asking a graduate of BJU to embrace evolution is like asking a member of the Vatican to embrace the fallibilty of the Pope.

[eri]

Yes, I had heard a bit about BJU before moving down here. In fact, I heard that they were not accredited - which is why it surprised me that they would go from BJU to an accredited graduate program; but then, apparently you don't have to accept all that science has to offer to get a PhD in it. I didn't ask any of those graduate students to sign the petition (which was just a list, actully) - they tend to avoid me anyway.

[Miss Whiplash]

Yes, I had heard a bit about BJU before moving down here. In fact, I heard that they were not accredited - which is why it surprised me that they would go from BJU to an accredited graduate program; but then, apparently you don't have to accept all that science has to offer to get a PhD in it. I didn't ask any of those graduate students to sign the petition (which was just a list, actully) - they tend to avoid me anyway.

I beleive BJU was granted accreditation in after they finally complied with federal policy (http://www.bju.edu/admissions/nondiscrim.html) on nondiscrimination. As it stands now they are accredited through some mysterious religious organization (http://www.bju.edu/academics/accred.html). I guess it's up to the registrar of the university and the state's college system board of governors who determines what is accepted and what is not. Personally, I don't think the Army is an accredited college, but military service is accepted as earned college credit by most colleges and universities. :shrugs:

Good luck on your skeptic group. The Atlanta area had a skeptic group that once had a working webpage. That's the closest group to Clemson. The North Carolina Skeptics encompassed SC at one time. However, our group is now defunct as members have gotten older, moved away or too tied up with work.