James Randi In Australia, the full documentary. [Archive]

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Richard

20th May 2006, 05:29 PM

Well, here it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7461912885649996034

James Randi In Australia, the full documentary from 1980.

Randi has given me permission to put it online as this should
be free for the world to see.

It was just after this that Australian Skeptics came into being.

Next time you have some diviner asking questions, point them
to this documentary. Again, I ask one and all to publish this
link on other egroups etc.

Enjoy

Darat

20th May 2006, 05:33 PM

That's great have you added it as a link in the links manager? (http://forums.randi.org/local_links.php)

RSLancastr

20th May 2006, 07:27 PM

Thanks for uploading that!

Now, can someone flog the "composer" of the soundtrack! :boggled:

Anti_Hypeman

20th May 2006, 09:41 PM

Bravo, good show. To be fair they should redo the test on a day without so many sun spots.

ImOne

20th May 2006, 10:09 PM

That video was kind of funny. Little doubt left that some of those people are delusional. I never thought much of water divining before seeing the video. It was interesting that the water divination test resulted in an accuracy above 20% when chance would be 10%. This leaves me wondering what percent the top 3 achieved. And could they repeat it.

I know y'all think the 20+% was just luck. If they maintained that percentage over enough trials it would be statistically significant. Without more testing we'll never know.

eowyn

21st May 2006, 01:55 AM

Thanks for the video.

I liked the sun-spots excuse.

Richard

21st May 2006, 05:53 AM

BTW: I have put the Mitta doco up as one file now.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4694530584288972114

I'm sure that in 50 years, people will still think they can use sticks to find water.

rjh01

21st May 2006, 06:18 AM

Just watched it. It was an amazing film. Showed the scientific method at work.

Starthinker

21st May 2006, 06:52 AM

This isn't the one where the host goes wild after seeing JR bend a spoon, is it? I've only heard about that but didn't think a video was available.

brodski

21st May 2006, 06:55 AM

This isn't the one where the host goes wild after seeing JR bend a spoon, is it? I've only heard about that but didn't think a video was available. Randi does bend a spoon (or two) in the first video, so it could be the one you where thinking of. He performs "psychic surgery" at the end too.

a_unique_person

21st May 2006, 07:09 AM

Hey, stop trying to watch it when I am.

Poor sods. It's just sad.

Zep

21st May 2006, 08:12 AM

Richard

21st May 2006, 08:36 AM

I can't download it - I get about 30 secs in and it starts to stutter. At this rate, it will take 13.5 weeks to download - I can't wait that long!

How about putting it somewhere we can actually access it with a hope of reasonable success, Richard?

Hmm, I have no trouble. Try letting it download for a few minutes before hitting play, or press pause for a few mintues then play. Anyone else finding it slow?

tkingdoll

21st May 2006, 08:49 AM

I just watched the whole thing.

Is it legal to download it to my iPod?

Richard

21st May 2006, 08:51 AM

I just watched the whole thing.

Is it legal to download it to my iPod?

Please do. It is now free to the world.

tkingdoll

21st May 2006, 08:55 AM

Please do. It is now free to the world.

Excellent! It'll take pride of place next to the South Park Scientology episode, filed under "just shut up and watch this".

Kimpatsu

21st May 2006, 09:55 AM

Magnificent! I've just sat upt to 1:00Am to watch this video, and now my wife's going bats calling me up to bed.
Randi is so entertaining, he's bad for my health!

tkingdoll

21st May 2006, 10:08 AM

prewitt81

21st May 2006, 10:48 AM

I just watched the other Randi video on that page, the Uri Gellar one. For some reason the Peter Popoff segment caused me to burst into tears - I guess my skeptic dam finally burst. You can only see so much manipulation and sick scheming before it gets to you, I guess.

:(

And Popoff is up to his old tricks again.

Even worse are some of the awful things Popoff's wife would say about the congregants. There are bad people, and then there are downright evil people. They are evil.

RSLancastr

21st May 2006, 01:53 PM

Even worse are some of the awful things Popoff's wife would say about the congregants.I would imagine that con-artists all think poorly of - and usually make fun of - their marks.

prewitt81

21st May 2006, 03:51 PM

I would imagine that con-artists all think poorly of - and usually make fun of - their marks.

Agreed, but one comment in particular really got to me (Randi relates this to P&T in the extras of the BS Season 1 DVD). At one point, Popoff is looking around the crowd, and one of the people in attendance is a heavyset woman of color just crying her eyes out. Obviously something was wrong and she was very distraught. Popoff's wife comes over the earpiece and directs him to "the fat n****r sitting in row ___. And keep your hands off her t*ts. I'm watching you."

This, to me, is more than a con artist working a gullible mark. I'm ashamed to live on the same planet as this man and his wife. :(

Tricky

21st May 2006, 04:16 PM

Loved the video. My main complaint was that there was plenty of footage of the dowsers showing their certainty, but hardly any of them giving their excuses. To me, that is the most damning thing about woos: the stories they make up to cover for their failure. Yeah, we heard sunspots mentioned, but I wanted to hear from that arrogant bastard in the yellow shirt who was so cocksure. I saw him raise his hand when Randi asked if he still believed in dowsing (fulfilling Randi's prediction) but I never heard his whinging. That would have been priceless.

Lisa Simpson

21st May 2006, 04:22 PM

I felt rather sorry for the dowsers, until Randi asked them who still believed. Then I lost all sympathy.

I know I've seen this before...was it ever shown on US TV?

a_unique_person

21st May 2006, 08:24 PM

I can't download it - I get about 30 secs in and it starts to stutter. At this rate, it will take 13.5 weeks to download - I can't wait that long!

How about putting it somewhere we can actually access it with a hope of reasonable success, Richard?

I think it was bandwidth overload, it worked fine for me at first, then it just died half way through.

rustytunes

21st May 2006, 08:35 PM

This isn't the one where the host goes wild after seeing JR bend a spoon, is it? I've only heard about that but didn't think a video was available.

No, that was a local midday show, The Don Lane Show. And it was a key, not a spoon.

Tricky

22nd May 2006, 11:49 AM

Over on YouTube is a replay of the Mighty Mitta Muster Divining Test put on by the Australian skeptics. This one includes more of the excuses which I find so wonderful. One of them was that the water had lost it's "electricity" because it sat out too long. Another dowser (like many of them) had the idea that water flows in streams underground instead of the usual situation where water sits mostly static in porous rock or sediment layers. It was too funny.

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAgQ9U-oUqw&search=%22james%20randi%22)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyLbaG6fm7s&search=%22james%20randi%22)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvw26DVMf28&search=%22james%20randi%22)

TobiasTheViking

22nd May 2006, 12:02 PM

Richard

22nd May 2006, 07:14 PM

You can read all about the 1980 test here:
http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/beginning/book.pdf
Just click on the 'Divining' bookmark.

Archangel

23rd May 2006, 12:56 AM

This isn't the one where the host goes wild after seeing JR bend a spoon, is it? I've only heard about that but didn't think a video was available.

Nope you're thinking of when Randi was on the Don Lane Show (Don Lane tonight maybe?).

Randi is talking to Lane whilst bending the key on his seat, and Lane notices this.

Lane then chucks a hissy fit and starts ranting and raving that Randi was calling Doris Stokes (60 or 70 year old female John Edwards a like iirc) a liar (on some sort of Radio show).

Randi was saying that he said nothing of the sort, with Lane shouting over the top of him the entire time.

Lane then tries to cut to commercial whilst storming off (swiping at the spare keys on the coffee table infront of Randi and sending them flying) and swearing whilst a bemused Randi looks on.

It was on Channel 9 last night, being promoted as the 4th (i think) greatest televised hissy fit in Australia.

Curnir

23rd May 2006, 07:52 AM

Nope you're thinking of when Randi was on the Don Lane Show (Don Lane tonight maybe?).

Randi is talking to Lane whilst bending the key on his seat, and Lane notices this.

Did he notice the key bending the first time? Didn't Randi do a ratchet effect with that key and then reveal who he had bent it? Thus bringing on the Lane dummy spit?

bjb

23rd May 2006, 01:44 PM

ImOne, you are making an attempt at data searching.

That 22% success rate was for 50 tests, which really is not enough trials to achieve the expected 10% rate due to random chance. I would want to see at least 100 trials and 1000 would be enough to satisfy me. The other two tests had a 0% in 26 attempts and 12% rate for 35. All together, this gives a success rate of 12% for 111 tries.

Looking at the water test, it would seem the dowsers beat the odds. But the dowsers were claiming 80-100% accuracy, so by their own standards, they failed the test. A skeptic expects a 10% accuracy, but the 10% number only applies when enough tests have been conducted.

Similarly, we could look at the brass-finding test, which had a 0% success rate. Some will say this is proof that James Randi somehow interfered with their abilities. Even someone familiar with statistics will see a 0% success rate as odd, but still, this is not unexpected for only 26 tries.

As for looking at the top guessers, I mean, dowsers, that is also selecting data. Suppose I got 10,000 people to take the dowsing test. The overall success rate is going to be 10%, but some people are going to score much higher than 10%. In fact, I can get someone to score 100% if I test enough people for long enough. Of course, if I get that person to try and repeat the test, then the success rate is going to fall back down to 10%. That was a valid point about repeating the test, but there was no evidence that repeating the test would give results that would have given any other conclusion.

This is why the overall results were used to determine the validity of dowsing. There needed to be more than 50 tests to arrive at something approaching the expected 10% success rate. The overall success rate of 12% backs up the skeptical claim that dowsing is no more effective than random guessing. The dowser's claim is 80-100%. I have to say the test was sufficient to back up the claim of the skeptics, and debunk the claims of the dowsers.

Operaider

23rd May 2006, 03:13 PM

I wonder if anyone can help me track down the video that first got me into scepticsm. In it Randi goes to a tribe (I'm assuming in Africa) and poses as a mystic. He performs an exorcism on a woman, and makes a coconut move all on its own. Of course, he then explains that like the other mystics that come to their town demanding money, he has no paranormal power. I believe he also tests some dowsers by placing objects under cups for them to find.

This video was shown to me by a high school biology teacher, and i haven't been able to find it since. There is much more to it, but since its been years since i've seen it, i've forgotten most of it.

BTW, I'd also like to suggest the Nova special Secrets of the Psychics to anyone that hasn't seen it. Great video featuring Randi testing various claims.
I checked out a copy from my local library, and i see that they sell copies in the Jref store.

CFLarsen

23rd May 2006, 03:23 PM

"Secrets of the Psychics" is highly recommendable.

politas

23rd May 2006, 03:29 PM

Popoff's wife comes over the earpiece and directs him to "the fat n****r sitting in row ___. And keep your hands off her t*ts. I'm watching you."

This, to me, is more than a con artist working a gullible mark. I'm ashamed to live on the same planet as this man and his wife. :(

Things like this are how such con-artists salve their own conscience. They dehumanise their victims in order to self-justify their actions.

Operaider

23rd May 2006, 03:32 PM

Things like this are how such con-artists salve their own conscience. They dehumanise their victims in order to self-justify their actions.Too true, Psychic Mafia gives a good depiction of this.

Richard

26th May 2006, 02:29 AM

I see that Randi has put the link to this video in Swift. So far it has been viewed over 1000 times and downloaded over 100 times. It's just the thing to bring to the attention of the divining and dowing web sites (evil grin)

WOW....

Bigt

26th May 2006, 11:13 PM

Could a dowser have won this challenge? What if a clever dowser says he finds water everywhere but the water he claims he's detecting is deeper and the water in the pipes doesn't matter. The only way to disprove him would be to dig a well. And he might not be disproven because it's hard, in many areas, to find places where there isn't water.

bjb

26th May 2006, 11:21 PM

The test was designed to eliminate this excuse. The video shows the dowsers walking through the area before any water was flowing. None of them claimed to detect water at this time and they declared the area 'clear'. They couldn't claim later to have been thrown by deep water since they had already agreed there wasn't any before the test. Of course, this didn't keep them from coming up with other excuses.

rjh01

27th May 2006, 02:28 AM

How many of them gave up the job afterwards? I know they all claimed afterwards they still believed in it.

I have just done a Google search and found at least one site owned by a person that does it. Mind you also found the skeptics site.

Bigt

27th May 2006, 06:41 AM

The test was designed to eliminate this excuse

Yes, this is true, but a clever - maybe dishonest - dowser would have claimed that he did find water everywhere before the test began. These dowsers obviously didn't have their thinking caps on. How would a dowser making such a claim be tested then? Were I a dowser in this test, I would have claimed the prize or ask that I be proved wrong by drilling a well.

Of course, I would have failed miserably on the metal detection test, but then I wouldn't have claimed to be able to do this.

rjh01

27th May 2006, 06:47 AM

But dowsing does work! Just ask any of the people who were tested. So no need to give any excuses beforehand.

A dishonest person who not have even turned up.

Questioninggeller

4th June 2006, 12:41 AM

Well, here it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7461912885649996034

James Randi In Australia, the full documentary from 1980.

Randi has given me permission to put it online as this should
be free for the world to see.

Excellent documentary. That is a must see.

I tried to download it, but couldn't. Anyone know where I can download this video so I can share it with others by putting on a DVD-R?

rjh01

4th June 2006, 12:59 AM

On the right hand side of the screen there is a button marked 'Download'. Try pressing that. Good luck.

Richard

4th June 2006, 05:25 AM

Excellent documentary. That is a must see.

I tried to download it, but couldn't. Anyone know where I can download this video so I can share it with others by putting on a DVD-R?

The best thing you could do is to buy the DVD :

https://secure5.ozhosting.com/skeptics/shop/dvd.htm

It's only $20 Australian, about $15 US.

The Documentary is only one part of The Great Water Divining DVD, a fascinating look into the world of water divining in Australia over the last 26 years.

It is also packed with observations and insights from diviners and skeptics alike. See James Randi make one of his finest appeals to reason and the skeptical point of view. See all sorts of diviners using all sorts of divining rods in hopes of winning the tests. See Dick Smith's changing hair style!

Total Running Time: 120 minutes

This DVD includes:

* An Introduction to Divining - 2003
* The Mighty Mitta Muster Divining Test - 2002
* A Current Affair Divining Test - 1989
* James Randi In Australia - Divining Test - 1980

Special DVD features:

* Interactive Menus
* Scene Selection
* Photo Albums

omatsu

30th June 2006, 09:19 AM

Thank you for putting this video to public site. I immensely enjoyed this and made a simple introduction in Japanese on my blog.

I would like to put a Japanese subtitle so that it will be more useful to Japanese public. Cannot promise when, but want to keep it as my homework.

Arigato from Japan.

Richard

30th June 2006, 12:06 PM