Convincing a Friend to Stay Away from Homeopaths

[The Mad Hatter]

Hello,

A friend of mine has a friend who's had mono since October or November, and I guess whatever regular treatments are out there aren't working very well. She's supposed to start seeing a homeopath soon, and my friend wants me to talk to her and try to get her to stick to conventional medicine. I agreed to do it, but I'm really not sure how convincing it'd be, since she's probably willing to try anything at this point.

I'll probably tell her how homeopathy is prepared, I'll tell her about the studies showing its ineffectiveness, and maybe I'll offer to have a meeting with her and her homeopath to show how silly it is.

Problem is, I'm only presenting a problem and not a solution. She seems to have given up on standard treatments, so I don't know what direction to point her in. Does anyone have any real selling points? Are there any proper treatments that I can suggest she put her money into instead?

[a_unique_person]

People get desperate, understandably. Medicine won't lie about it's inability to solve everything, but homeopathy and and other 'alternatives' are quite happy to. Just the facts. If they won't work, nothing will

[Gr8wight]

I think most people simply don't understand exactly what hoemopathy is. Simply explaining the extreme dilutions used should be enough for most people.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Perhaps a trip to http://badhomeopath.com/ ?

[Donks]

I think most people simply don't understand exactly what hoemopathy is. Simply explaining the extreme dilutions used should be enough for most people.
I agree with Gr8wight. First of all explain what homeopathy actually is, the principles it "works" on, etc. If she is still not convinced, you can tell her about medical trials and all the reasons why this can't possibly work.

I'm not sure you presenting a solution would work, nless you are an MD. Best you could do is phone a specialist beforehand, ask him for all available treatment options and their success rates, and give her that informaiton to consult with her own physician.

[Deetee]

By mono I guess you mean infectious mononucleosis (glandular fever). Firstly can I ask if this was definitively diagnosed - ie were the blood tests positive for EBvirus? It is possible they were not, but the docs just assumed that the illness was sufficiently similar to mono to end up giving that label to it.
The reason I ask is that mono can be very debilitating, and takes 3-6 months on average for someone who has had a bad attack to recover, and it can take a year. The immune dysregulation that is caused by the virus can be quite problematic for a long time, and leads to extreme fatigue, persistently swollen glands etc. There is no specific medical remedy, but time will always cure all. There is a chance that a homoeopath, arriving on the scene around now, will be just in time to claim any credit for any spontaneous improvment. Even if your friend takes another 6 months or so to recover - the homoeopath will have definitely coverd this with their opening "disclaimer" which will always say she might get worse before she gets better (in fact they will drop heavy hints that if this happens it is a sure sign the treatment is working!) and not to anticipate recovery for at least 6 months more.
It is possible your friend did not have mono, but another condition or virus very similar, and she may have what is termed chronic fatigue (ME), which can take a bit longer to recover from. However, with a graded exercise programme and appropriate physical rehab she should do OK. But if a woo gets involved - they will claim credit, when all they have been doing is biding their time while nature results in a spontaneous resolution.

You could tell her I am sending quantum-enhanced positive Z-energy rays at her via the internet. These have remarkable healing powers and she should show good signs of recovery in the next few months, so she has no need to consult a homoeopath.

[The Mad Hatter]

Thanks for the tips. I saw her last night and talked to her about it, told her how it was prepared and everything, but as it turns out, it's her parents who are behind it. She thinks the whole thing is a dumb idea. Apparently the homeopath is just giving her vitamin pills, strangely enough, and her parents are the ones paying for it, so she doesn't really care. Parents don't seem to change much, but at least the girl has some common sense.

Keep sending those energy rays, though. If she gets better in the next few months, I'll give you full credit.

[rustytunes]

I recently had a similar situation, where my Mother was talking about trying homeopathy here in Australia. This is how I ended up convincing her not to.

I found a local homeopathic remedy supplier's website and sent them this email:

Hello, I am developing a keen interest in Homeopathy, and have had a look at your very informative website. One thing that concerns me is I can't see anything (correct me if I'm wrong) relating to the quality assurance of the medicines - what steps are taken to ensure that the homeopathic medicines you supply are in fact what they say they are. I would be grateful for any information you can provide regarding this.

I had to send the email several times before I received this response, several weeks later:

Dear Sir,
your e-mail to Homlab has been passed on to me for reply.I have been treated by homoeopathy for more than 40 years and I know that it works.Your concern about (quote) "the quality assurance of the medicines (homoeopathic) " is intriguing in the way that:- a) I do not understand if you have already tested homoeopathy or do you want to start on it ? b) Do you ask for "quality assurance" whenever you buy some medicines at the chemist which have been prescribed by your doctor or whenever you buy things like Pannadole or other medicines sold at Woolworth or Action or any food shops, do you ask them for "quality assurance" ? I would say "no" in both cases because you know perfectly well that since they do not have that type of information ,you will never get it.
your second question (quote) "what steps are taken to ensure that the homoeopathic medicines you supply are in fact what they say they are" is for me, a bit childish.Whenever you buy any medicine from either the chemist or the Health food store, you rely on what is written on the label to see that it is the right medicine that you wanted.Homoeopathic medicines are the same .The homoeopathic doctor prescribing these medicines knows what he is talking about and the homoeopathic laboratory knows how to prepare them.
you know the saying " the proof of the pudding is in the eating " so what about you making an appointment with the doctor at Homlab for a consultation for any ailment you might have and see for yourself that the medicine work.

I immediately sent this one back:

Thank you for your reply. Its unfortunate that you did not answer my question. Calling me childish is hardly a professional response.

The reason I have asked about quality assurance is I understand that there is no way of confirming that the contents of the homeopathic medicine bottle are what they say they are. It is water with every, or almost every molecule of the original ingredient diluted out.

I want to know how you confirm/verify/assure that:

1. the bottles are correctly labeled;
2. they do not contain just water.

Mistakes can be made (we are only human), and there are also plenty of scammers out there.

Most businesses have quality systems in place. GlaxoSmithKline (Panadol paracetamol) have a quality system covering all apsects of their operation, and a statement is available on request.

Panodol can be tested and it's ingredients can be verified. This is not the case with homeopathic medicines. Furthermore, Panadol is registered and regulated by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), which ensures that the product is safe and and of high quality. I understand that homeopathic medicines are exempt from TGA regulation because they contain little or no active ingredient (correct me if I am wrong).

To answer your question, no - I do not ask the chemist or shopkeeper about quality assurance. I ask the manufacturer, or distributor of the products.

You say "the homeopathic doctor prescribing these medicines knows what he is talking about and the homeopathic laboratory knows how to prepare them". Well, I'm sure that the "doctor" does know what he is doing, but how does he know for sure that the medicines he supplies are what they say they are? And I'm sure that the laboratories know how to prepare them, but what quality systems do they have in place to assure the quality of the product?

The reason I am asking these questions is that before I spend money on anything, I investigate first. Now you are trying to sell me a homeopathic appointment, but I'm sorry, I don't have all of the facts yet. Yes, the proof is in the pudding, but so far after hundreds of trials, the fact that homeopathy works has not been proven beyond the placebo effect. This is why I have my doubts.

If you can't answer these questions I'll have to assume that there is no quality systems in place for the preparation of homeopathic medicines, and that you are unable to confirm that the product is what you say it is.

I do look forward to your reply.

This was in March, 2006. Needless to say, I have not yet received a response. All I really wanted was a quality assurance statement, but of course I knew they would be unable to provide one. This was enough to convince my Mum!

[rjh01]

Of course maybe your friend's friend could do with a friendly ear? If she has something that could take 6 - 12 months to recover she will have heaps of problems and worries. She may what a person she can trust not to judge her to talk to. Such people are rare.

[rustytunes]

Apparently the homeopath is just giving her vitamin pills, strangely enough, and her parents are the ones paying for it, so she doesn't really care. Parents don't seem to change much, but at least the girl has some common sense.

Unfortunately, her parents are the ones being ripped off.:(

[burrahobbit]

Apparently the homeopath is just giving her vitamin pills,


Homeopathic vitamin pills? That's a new one.

Could make a lot of money. Then we move to homeopathic food.:D

[vbloke]

Perhaps a trip to http://badhomeopath.com/ ?
Thanks for the link-pimp!

One of the main reasons I have found people go to homeopaths is that they are frustrated that medicine appears to make them feel worse, they are more inclined to want to try "natural" remedies, have a vested interest in "alternative" therapies or they have an illness that is essentially "incurable".

My blog contains some very useful information on homeopathy from the inside - I would seriously suggest your friend reads it.

One other thing I would try and stress to your friend is that, whilst homeopathy appears to work (placebo effect), what it is doing is masking the real disease by use of psychology (she'll imagine she's getting better, but the disease will still be there).

Tell her to take notes (assuming she is determined to go ahead with homeopathic treatment) about what she takes, how often and for how long. Then tell her to also note down how quickly the symptoms reappear after she has stopped taking the remedies A diary like this will help show that homeopathy is not a "cure", just an imaginary palliative that vanished surprisingly quickly when the treatment is over.

[kinkymagic]

You could just 'O.D' on homopathic sleeping pills.

[vbloke]

There is no specific treatment for glandular fever (mono). Antibiotics are not helpful, as this is a virus infection. In fact there is one antibiotic, ampicillin, which is more likely to cause a rash if given to people with glandular fever.

You can treat the symptoms of fever and pain with pain killers (analgesics) such as paracetamol or non-steroidal anti inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen or aspirin. You will probably need more rest and sleep than usual for a prolonged period.

Drink plenty of fluids, even if you are off your food.

If you have any evidence of hepatitis you should avoid alcohol until the liver is completely recovered, which might be many months. Your doctor will, of course, advise you.

It is wise not to rush back to full activity too soon, and to build up slowly.

Glandular fever (mono) often affects children and young adults at the time of critical examinations, and may well affect revision and even performance in the examinations. If this applies to you, you would be well advised to either consider delaying the examination, or asking your doctor for a letter to present to the examining board before you sit the exam.

[Rasmus]

One of the main reasons I have found people go to homeopaths is that they are frustrated that medicine appears to make them feel worse, they are more inclined to want to try "natural" remedies, have a vested interest in "alternative" therapies or they have an illness that is essentially "incurable".

I wouldn't know how often this happens - but my doctor just tried to add a homoeopathic remedy on top of the antibiotics and painkillers. Had I accepted, I might have ended up slightly more likely to accept homoeopathy, even though there would have been no reason to assume that it wasn't the other stuff.

Rasmus.

[supercorgi]

I wouldn't know how often this happens - but my doctor just tried to add a homoeopathic remedy on top of the antibiotics and painkillers. Had I accepted, I might have ended up slightly more likely to accept homoeopathy, even though there would have been no reason to assume that it wasn't the other stuff.

Rasmus.
:rolleyes: If I was you, I think I'd look for a new doctor.

[supercorgi]

I think most people simply don't understand exactly what hoemopathy is. Simply explaining the extreme dilutions used should be enough for most people.
I think that's true. Most people seem to think homeopathy = herbal medicine
When you explain the actual principles of homeopathy, a lot of people will realize how silly it is. Of course, you still have those people who swear "It cured my aunt's bunions, so it must work." Those are the ones who are sort of hopeless.

[beelzebub]

A friend of mine at work believes in acupuncture therapies, so I was a bit concerned when she said she was going to have her injured foot treated by an acupuncturist. I knew that straight-out skepticism wouldn't work, so I suggested to her, by all means try it if it makes you feel good, but for heavens sake see the doctor as well. She saw the doctor, and now her foot is fine.
I know people want a more sympathetic response to their suffering than "Just take the pills and get out" experience a busy surgery might appear to give, so the 'holistic' approach of sympathy, empathy, encouragement, as well as a treatment, is very attractive to many. But real, physical, ailments really do need more than a smile and an arm 'round the shoulder - although (along with proper medicine) it doesn't hurt :)

[Rasmus]

:rolleyes: If I was you, I think I'd look for a new doctor.

Funny thing is, I did go to a different doctor the next day since his practice was closed. Now I am up to my neck in painkilers and improving rapidly.

Seriously though, he was accepting i didn't want it easily enough; we had a brief conversation about it and that was it. (okay, had I been able to swallow, eat or even drink for the 3 days before that, the conversation would have been much longer ...) I would consider a switch, but I only go there like once every five years or so.

Rasmus.