Thing to bring on the Amazing Cruise

[Curnir]

Or rather:

Things I must not forget to bring to the Amazing Cruise
-------------------------------------------------------

Books, lots and lots of books.

Some sort of camera.

A compass. (hmm wonder if I could get one at the Ft. Lauderdale army/navy surplus?)

MP3 player with record capabilities.

A good sense of fun.

edit.

And a couple of spoons ofc :)

[Hutch]

Or rather:

Things I must not forget to bring to the Amazing Cruise
-------------------------------------------------------

Books, lots and lots of books.

You may be surprised, the amount of time you will have to read will not be as much as you think.

[/QUOTE]Some sort of camera. [/QUOTE]

Absolutely. I'm thinking about a DVD Video camera along with my still camera.

A compass. (hmm wonder if I could get one at the Ft. Lauderdale army/navy surplus?)

Now that is something I never thought of; interesting.

MP3 player with record capabilities.

Never owned one, never will.

A good sense of fun.

Absolutely

And a couple of spoons ofc :)

:confused:

A couple more necessities:

Sunsceen or a hat (especially for a head devoid of hair like mine.)

Swimsuit (or suits)

Tennis shoes, probably at least 2 pairs.

One jacket and tie for the "Formal" night at dinner.

The willingness to do at least one silly thing the ship's "social director" comes up with to keep you entertained.

[Curnir]

You may be surprised, the amount of time you will have to read will not be as much as you think.

Flim Flam, Faith Healers, How we believe, Science of good and evil and science friction.
For signing.
And the flights, when I get bored of the podcasts in the MP3 player...


Now that is something I never thought of; interesting.

Yes to check for the magnetic anomalies in the triangle :D

:confused:

Well, for bending you know. Always nice to have a couple of 'prepared' spoons.

A couple more necessities:

Sunsceen or a hat (especially for a head devoid of hair like mine.)

Swimsuit (or suits)

Tennis shoes, probably at least 2 pairs.

One jacket and tie for the "Formal" night at dinner.

And normal clothes (smart casual) of course. Don't own any tennis shoes.

The willingness to do at least one silly thing the ship's "social director" comes up with to keep you entertained.
Well as long as they don't call for me to sing. :)

[Piggy]

I will bring a good set of clay chips if anyone is interested in some friendly poker.

I understand the casino games are all against the house. I never play against the house.

[Beady]

I'm planning on bringing a really good set of binoculars and some custom star charts. Should be some really good views at night.

[Piggy]

I've had to scratch, so someone else will need to schlep the chips. Have fun, y'all.

[VPescado]

Here are some things on my list:

gps
bungee cords.
highlighters.
snorkle gear
duct tape.
collapsable cooler.
power strips
walkie talkies
Inflatable palm tree.
tevas.

[Antiquehunter]

Umm... bungee cords, duct tape... what are you going to be up to on this cruise, anyways?

My list:

cruise wear (ie - loud shirts.)
poker chips
an insatiable appetite for froo-froo cocktails served in hollowed-out pineapples, garnished with fruits that have been carved into festive shapes.

[VPescado]

Umm... bungee cords, duct tape... what are you going to be up to on this cruise, anyways?

Securing balcony doors open and tying together beds comes to mind.

[Antiquehunter]

Geez - I hope my cabin doesn't share a wall with yours...

[VPescado]

Geez - I hope my cabin doesn't share a wall with yours...

Ooops....forgot about the walls - Add cutting torch and sawz-all to my list.

[Beady]

Geez - I hope my cabin doesn't share a wall with yours...

I'd worry more that the deck plans show most of the cabins have adjoining doors.

[Antiquehunter]

I was thinking about the noise.

I'm not worried about security - I just want a good nights sleep.

[Beady]

I'm not worried about security - I just want a good nights sleep.

It's easier to sleep with noisy neighbors if they're not in your cabin.

[VPescado]

I was thinking about the noise.

I'm not worried about security - I just want a good nights sleep.

Have you considered a homeopathic sleep remedy?

You can make one yourself by putting a drop of coffee in the ship's pool in the morning and then scooping up a cupful of pool water before you go to bed. While this is not as scientific as a professionally prepared remedy, it does utilize the positive energy solar energy soaked up by the pool all day (much as sun tea (http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/suntea.asp) is enhanced by brewing it in the sun).

[Beady]

...it does utilize the positive energy solar energy soaked up by the pool all day (much as sun tea (http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/suntea.asp) is enhanced by brewing it in the sun).

But isn't the coffee neutralized by all the chlorine and urine in the pool?

[VPescado]

But isn't the coffee neutralized by all the chlorine and urine in the pool?

No, those just provide homeopathic treatment for bleached skin and incontinence/bedwetting at the same time. It is a multi-symptom cure.

[Antiquehunter]

I think I'll stick with my earplugs, thanks.

That and my own duct tape and bungee cords to secure doors...

[Curnir]

that wouldn't be a very strong homeopathic sleep agent though.

Only about C8-C9 right?

[Antiquehunter]

I'm a heavy sleeper. Once I'm out I'm out. I slept through a breakin once.
C8-C9 should be fine provided we're talking Crown and Coke. But all this talk about heavy duty hardware is making me a tad nervous. On my last cruise we were all 10 pin bowlers, and the bowling balls weren't allowed on board for security. VPescado makes me nervous - for his sake. All this equipment may be barred by the XRay machine...

[VPescado]

All this equipment may be barred by the XRay machine...

The Sawzall is in my carry-on. If pressed my claim is that it is my dive knife.

Really, the X-Ray machines are only looking for folks bringing alcohol on board.

[Skeptic Ginger]

:plankton: Kleenex, TP and a barf bag. :stone029: :eusa_sick:

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


Perhaps waterless hand cleaner might substitute for the above. :thumbsup:

While there may be over-covering in the news of the Noro virus outbreaks on cruise ships, nonetheless the cruises are a set up for outbreaks of various infectious diseases: people from distant locations :broomstic , crowding together :crowded: sometimes in confined spaces. :boxedin:

Be sure your measles and mumps vaccines are adequate if you were born in 1957 or later. There are measles and currently large mumps outbreaks around the world. You need to have had 2 doses of MMR vaccine after you were 12 months old and after 1967 (before 1968 it wasn't the same vaccine) OR physician diagnosed cases of both measles and now mumps as well, OR blood tests confirming your immunity. Get the vaccine at least 2 weeks before leaving to avoid side effects on the trip.

The same timing applies to varicella, (chicken pox), vaccine. If you aren't sure if you've had chicken pox get a blood test to see if you are immune. If not immune ALL adults, cruise goers or not, need varicella vaccine. While those over 50 are probably immune, I just dealt with a 42 year old who came down with chicken pox last month.

You probably won't be able to find one but if you can, get a flu vaccine if you are at risk of severe disease due to health conditions or age. Cruise ships have had frequent influenza outbreaks year round. If you can't find a vaccine dose, ask the cruise line. They offer flu vaccinations on some cruises. Though it won't be in time to prevent infection it might make for a milder case if you get the vaccination on board. Unfortunately the northern hemisphere's 05-06 vaccine will be expired and the new one not yet available. But there should be a southern hemisphere version. It will not make you sick, that's a myth.

Get a tetanus/diphtheria booster if it's been > 10 years; and, if you are under age 40 or so, consider including the new pertussis component for adults in that booster. Pertussis, (whooping cough), epidemics have been occurring worldwide every year in the last decade as people vaccinated as children lose their immunity. A booster vaccine has only been available for adults since last year. Td vaccine with pertussis may make you feel badly for a day or so. Be sure to get that one at least a few days before leaving.


That concludes this update on vaccine recommendations for adults. :teacher: For any specific additions due to countries you are traveling to, the cruise ship should let you know. Consider mosquito :fairy: repellent where needed. Cases of Dengue fever are also on the increase in tropical areas.

Such a nerdy killjoy I am. :duck:

[Beady]

Hey, Jeff? I bet you thought *I* was being overly alarmist!

:D

[Boo]

Swim suit, SPF 30 sun block (family history of skin cancer), rope, climbing shoes, various items as needed for minimal decency, camera with extra memory stick and lots of hugs.


Yep, I'm good to go.




Boo

[Beady]

...various items as needed for minimal decency

I like that. :D

Especially if you're taking your boots.

[Antiquehunter]

Sounds like Boo better add bear spray to her packing list.

[Jeff Wagg]

:plankton: Kleenex, TP and a barf bag. :stone029: :eusa_sick:

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


Perhaps waterless hand cleaner might substitute for the above. :thumbsup:

While there may be over-covering in the news of the Noro virus outbreaks on cruise ships, nonetheless the cruises are a set up for outbreaks of various infectious diseases: people from distant locations :broomstic , crowding together :crowded: sometimes in confined spaces. :boxedin:

Be sure your measles and mumps vaccines are adequate if you were born in 1957 or later. There are measles and currently large mumps outbreaks around the world. You need to have had 2 doses of MMR vaccine after you were 12 months old and after 1967 (before 1968 it wasn't the same vaccine) OR physician diagnosed cases of both measles and now mumps as well, OR blood tests confirming your immunity. Get the vaccine at least 2 weeks before leaving to avoid side effects on the trip.

The same timing applies to varicella, (chicken pox), vaccine. If you aren't sure if you've had chicken pox get a blood test to see if you are immune. If not immune ALL adults, cruise goers or not, need varicella vaccine. While those over 50 are probably immune, I just dealt with a 42 year old who came down with chicken pox last month.

You probably won't be able to find one but if you can, get a flu vaccine if you are at risk of severe disease due to health conditions or age. Cruise ships have had frequent influenza outbreaks year round. If you can't find a vaccine dose, ask the cruise line. They offer flu vaccinations on some cruises. Though it won't be in time to prevent infection it might make for a milder case if you get the vaccination on board. Unfortunately the northern hemisphere's 05-06 vaccine will be expired and the new one not yet available. But there should be a southern hemisphere version. It will not make you sick, that's a myth.

Get a tetanus/diphtheria booster if it's been > 10 years; and, if you are under age 40 or so, consider including the new pertussis component for adults in that booster. Pertussis, (whooping cough), epidemics have been occurring worldwide every year in the last decade as people vaccinated as children lose their immunity. A booster vaccine has only been available for adults since last year. Td vaccine with pertussis may make you feel badly for a day or so. Be sure to get that one at least a few days before leaving.


That concludes this update on vaccine recommendations for adults. :teacher: For any specific additions due to countries you are traveling to, the cruise ship should let you know. Consider mosquito :fairy: repellent where needed. Cases of Dengue fever are also on the increase in tropical areas.

Such a nerdy killjoy I am. :duck:

A good lesson in statistics can be had here. A recent Norwalk Virus outbreak on a ship was reported recently.

"As many as 200 passengers and crew became ill aboard the SS Minnow.."

OK, well the SS Minnow has 4000 people on it. So, that means 5% of the people on board got sick. And that was one of the worst outbreaks of the year.

The real problem with cruises and sickness is that all the people are in one place, using one source of medical care, and thus they are easily tracked. How many people got sick after TAM5? A lot more than we ever found out about.

[Legalduck]

If I was going I would bring:

Copy of the Celestine Prophecy (check)

$500 stones that will improve the ship's sound system (check)

Clip for magnetizing wine (check)

Dowsing rods to find water during the cruise (I'm sensing water around here somewhere)

And lastly, Uri Gellar (to carry my bags)

Too bad that I can't make it:(

[VPescado]

You forgot to pack extra spoons. You will need them with Uri around.

[Reager]

I'm planning on bringing a really good set of binoculars and some custom star charts. Should be some really good views at night.


I've been disappointed when trying to look at the sky on cruise ships; lighted decks tend to drown out the stars. :-(

[Curnir]

You forgot to pack extra spoons. You will need them with Uri around.

Ahh but I am bringing some spoons.

[Skeptic Ginger]

...The real problem with cruises and sickness is that all the people are in one place, using one source of medical care, and thus they are easily tracked. How many people got sick after TAM5? A lot more than we ever found out about.No no no...The stats may exaggerate the hazard relative to other similar hazardous events, but the outbreaks are quite real and quite frequent. Common sense alone should tell you crowding 4,000 people on a cruise ship will result in the spread of some infectious disease.

Transmission of Illness on Cruise Ships (http://www2.ncid.cdc.gov/travel/yb/utils/ybGet.asp?section=transportation&obj=cruise.htm&cssNav=browsecyb)Communicable disease occurrences on board cruise ships reflect similar events on shore and may be magnified by increased interpersonal interaction. However, heightened disease surveillance efforts by cruise lines and awareness among cruise ship travelers have yielded the detection of illnesses of potential public health significance that might have otherwise gone unnoticed. Clusters of various communicable diseases—including measles, rubella, varicella, meningococcal meningitis, hepatitis A, Legionnaire's disease, and respiratory and gastrointestinal illnesses—among cruise ship travelers have been reported and investigated. In recent years, influenza and norovirus outbreaks have posed particularly difficult public health challenges for the cruise industry. Information on these and other diseases can be found at the CDC traveler's health web site (http://www.cdc.gov/travel/).

The extent of communicable disease control programs and expertise within the cruise industry is highly variable, ranging from less than optimal to a level of sophistication that exceeds CDC recommendations. Cruise ship travelers who suspect that they have become ill with a communicable disease exposure during their cruise travel should contact VSP (for gastrointestinal illness) or one of the CDC Quarantine Stations (other illnesses)....

...Preventive Health for Cruise Ship Travelers

Because of multiple ports visited and the resultant exposures, cruise ship travelers often are uncertain what prevention behaviors and immunizations are appropriate for their itineraries. Among cruise ship passengers and crew members, risk of exposure to infectious diseases is difficult to quantify because of the broad spectrum of cruise ship experiences and limited data. In general, prospective cruise ship travelers should 1) ensure that their routinely recommended age- and medical condition-specific immunizations are up to date, particularly influenza vaccine if indicated; 2) follow the prevention and immunization recommendations that apply to each country on the itinerary; 3) pay particular attention to hand hygiene, either with soap and water or by using an alcohol-based hand sanitizer; and 4) consult a travel health specialist who may tailor prevention guidelines and immunizations according to the health status of the cruise ship traveler, duration of travel, countries to be visited, and shore-side activities.
Useful Link

* Cruise Line International Association. Cited in http://www.cruising.org. Accessed on October 26, 2004.

CDC - Facts About Noroviruses on Cruise Ships (http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/Norovirus/Norovirus.htm)Reasons why noroviruses are associated with cruise ships

* Health officials track illness on cruise ships. Therefore, outbreaks are found and reported more quickly on a cruise ship than on land.
* Close living quarters may increase the amount of group contact.
* New passenger arrivals may bring the virus to other passengers and crew.

How noroviruses are spread

People can become infected with the virus by:

* Eating food or drinking liquids infected with noroviruses
* Touching surfaces or objects infected with noroviruses and then touching own mouth, nose, or eyes
* Having person-to-person contact (with a norovirus-infected person) by
o- being present while someone is vomiting
o- sharing food or eating from the same utensils
o- caring for a sick person
o- shaking hands
* Not washing hands after using the bathroom or changing diapers and before eating or preparing food.


Cruise ships: high-risk passengers and the global spread of new influenza viruses. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10987701&dopt=Abstract)Unique strain isolated in 1997, (off season influenza outbreak), attack rate 17% of 1,284 passengers. Source of infection was a passenger on the previous cruise, passed on by crew members.

Update: Outbreak of Influenza A Infection -- Alaska and the Yukon Territory, July-August 1998. (http://www.highbeam.com/library/docFree.asp?DOCID=1G1:21093515)As of August 22, prospective surveillance and retrospective case-finding have identified 2199 cases of ARI occurring during May 1-August22 (Figure 1). Among these illnesses, 766 (35%) cases in tourists and tourism workers in the region met the criteria for ILI (fever or feverishness with cough or sore throat), and an additional 71(3.2%) cases were confirmed radiographically as pneumonia. Of the persons with pneumonia, 50 required hospitalization. The median age of all persons with ARI was 60 years (range: 1-91 years), and the median age of all persons with pneumonia was 72 years (range: 9-91 years).

...Each week during May-September, approximately 60,000-70,0000 passengers travel over land and/or by cruise ship to Alaska and the Yukon Territory. Often these travelers use some combination of buses, trains, airplanes, automobiles, and ships for transportation, and many travel as part of large organized groups. Reports of summer outbreaks of influenza A are uncommon, but have been reported previously among groups of travelers in the United States and Canada (2,3). Large organized tour groups often include travelers from various regions of the world, including areas in which seasonal influenza is occurring, which potentially increases the risk for an off-season influenza outbreak among such tourist groups. For example, in August 1997, an influenza outbreak occurred on board a large cruise ship carrying an international group of tourists traveling along the eastern seaboard of the United States and Canada (3).

Influenza B Virus Outbreak on a Cruise Ship --- Northern Europe, 2000 (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5008a1.htm)Summertime influenza outbreaks among passengers and crew members on cruise ships suggest that traveling in large groups can pose a risk for exposure to influenza viruses, even when the group is traveling in regions where influenza is not in seasonal circulation. Both passengers and crew members can serve as potential reservoirs of influenza infection. Travelers at high risk for complications of influenza (e.g., persons aged >50 years, immunocompromised persons, and persons with chronic disorders of the pulmonary or cardiovascular systems) who were not vaccinated with influenza vaccine during the preceding fall or winter should consider receiving influenza vaccine before travel 1) with large organized tourist groups at any time of year; 2) to the tropics; or 3) to the Southern Hemisphere from April through September (the time of increased influenza activity in that hemisphere) (9). Cruise lines should attempt to achieve at least an 80% vaccination rate among crew members on each ship each year (8).

A large outbreak of influenza A and B on a cruise ship causing widespread morbidity. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12729195&dopt=Abstract)In September 2000 an outbreak of influenza-like illness was reported on a cruise ship sailing between Sydney and Noumea with over 1,100 passengers and 400 crew on board. Laboratory testing of passengers and crew indicated that both influenza A and B had been circulating on the ship. The cruise coincided with the peak influenza period in Sydney. Morbidity was high with 40 passengers hospitalized, two of whom died. A questionnaire was sent to passengers 3 weeks after the cruise and 836 of 1,119 (75%) responded. A total of 310 passengers (37%) reported suffering from an influenza-like illness (defined as cough, fever, myalgia and weakness) and 528 (63%) had seen a doctor for illness related to the cruise....A case-control study also found no significant protective effect of influenza vaccination.

Rubella Among Crew Members of Commercial Cruise Ships -- Florida, 1997 (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00050783.htm)During April-July 1997, two different commercial cruse lines notified CDC of rubella outbreaks among crew members.

[Beady]

No no no...The stats may exaggerate the hazard relative to other similar hazardous events, but the outbreaks are quite real and quite frequent. Common sense alone should tell you crowding 4,000 people on a cruise ship will result in the spread of some infectious disease.

Nevertheless, you'll pardon me if I don't panic, run right out to get shots or wear a surgical mask.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Nevertheless, you'll pardon me if I don't panic, run right out to get shots or wear a surgical mask.There is no mention of panic in my post that I am aware of. I merely noted some preventative measures worth taking. I added references to the above post, and it looks like getting a flu vaccine isn't recommended but for those at risk of serious flu complications, taking anti-flu drugs with you might be. The ones in the above reference are not the ones currently recommended, Tamiflu or Relenza are. Chances are good the ship's infirmary carries anti-flu drugs.

[Beady]

There is no mention of panic in my post that I am aware of. I merely noted some preventative measures worth taking.

If all those measures were worth taking, I wouldn't go on the cruise. Getting sick is part of life, and sometimes you get sick at very awkward times. It happens.

Chances are good the ship's infirmary carries anti-flu drugs.

Chances are also good that there are drugs for most other expected diseases. Anything else would open the cruise line to charges of negligence. For anything unexpected or serious, we are not, after all, leaving the civilized world completely behind. Besides, our group is taking its very own doctor. ;)

[VPescado]

IBesides, our group is taking its very own doctor. ;)

My understanding is that we will also have our very own lawyer.

BTW - do you mean Shermer and/or Hal, or dowe actually have an MD with us?

[Beady]

BTW - do you mean Shermer and/or Hal, or dowe actually have an MD with us?

MD.

[Curnir]

MD.

What type?

[SkepticScott]

Besides, our group is taking its very own doctor. ;)I've got my Doctorate of Divinity. It cost me about $25; do you think I paid too much?

[Beady]

I've got my Doctorate of Divinity. It cost me about $25; do you think I paid too much?

I guess we'll find out if our ship gets quarantined.

[Skeptic Ginger]

If all those measures were worth taking, I wouldn't go on the cruise. Getting sick is part of life, and sometimes you get sick at very awkward times. It happens.
All those measures, Beady? Some hand sanitizer and updating your vaccinations?

[SkepticScott]

Quarantined? I was only planning on forgiving everyone on board's sins, not giving them an indulgence to get sick!

[Skeptic Ginger]

I guess we'll find out if our ship gets quarantined.I've only been aware of one ship quarantined. It was a ship with an influenza outbreak they wouldn't let dock in NY a few years back. The rest of the time the ship's personnel ask the sick passengers to quarantine themselves in their cabins.

Got those extra books to read while in your cabin?

[Beady]

I've only been aware of one ship quarantined.

It was a joke.

[Jeff Wagg]

Skeptigirl, your advice also applies to airports, trains and shopping malls.

Hand sanitizer is actually available on board in dome like things in most of the public rooms, and in some cases, you're required to use it before you get on the ship. I avail myself of it often. (I like the smell!)

Personally, I believe you're in more danger of contracting a disease from your local elementary school than you are on a ship. My Dad was been on nearly 200 cruises, and he caught Norwalk virus only once.. from a McDonalds a couple of days after he got back from the cruise.

Is that any reason to ignore your vaccines? Nope.

Is it possible all of us will get sick from being on the ship? Yep.

Should we worry about it more than if we were travelling anywhere else? Nope.

As for MDs, there is a very highly trained and full equipped medical team on board, as well as at least one MD travelling in our group. Ship doctors are in a class of their own, having been trained cross-discipline in ways most shoreside doctors haven't been. And the ship is life-flight capable.

I'd like to address one other thing.. the "close quarters." While the cabins are smaller than standard hotel rooms, the rest of the rooms are quite large. You're in no closer quarters on a ship then you are in an office building. The one thing that is different is that the hallways have railings. Because of this, you'll touch more surfaces on a ship then you're likely to ashore.

[SkepticScott]

the hallways have railings. Because of this, you'll touch more surfaces on a ship then you're likely to ashore.Railings? We don't need no steenkin railings!

[Curnir]

Railings? We don't need no steenkin railings!

I do. :)

[SkepticScott]

You could always were blue surgical gloves both to protect yourself and to freak out any "Firefly" fans that see you. ;)

[Curnir]

You could always were blue surgical gloves both to protect yourself and to freak out any "Firefly" fans that see you. ;)

Hmm. That sounds like a neat idea.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Skeptigirl, your advice also applies to airports, trains and shopping malls. ...

Personally, I believe you're in more danger of contracting a disease from your local elementary school than you are on a ship. My Dad was been on nearly 200 cruises, and he caught Norwalk virus only once.. from a McDonalds a couple of days after he got back from the cruise....

Should we worry about it more than if we were travelling anywhere else? Nope.....

I'd like to address one other thing.. the "close quarters." While the cabins are smaller than standard hotel rooms, the rest of the rooms are quite large. You're in no closer quarters on a ship then you are in an office building. The one thing that is different is that the hallways have railings. Because of this, you'll touch more surfaces on a ship then you're likely to ashore.I hate to keep nit picking here since it gives the wrong impression about how concerned I would be on a cruise. I agree completely with the "should we worry more..., nope" comment. But, I must correct a few of the the finer points here.

Measles and mumps are spreading on planes, etc. But that is part of why I put them in my comments. It isn't that you will necessarily be at greater risk on board than in the shopping mall for measles and mumps, it's that those infections are currently occurring in several outbreaks around the globe including the Midwest, England, Scotland and Australia. One of the contributing factors in epidemics is people coming together from distant locations.

Schools are indeed sources of infection. I adhere to extra hand washing when visiting daycares and schools. As well, I avoid all drinking fountains and salad bars as those are sources of infection easily avoided in my case. (It's all a balance between avoiding what hazards you can while still enjoying your life BTW, and I'm certainly not saying anyone should avoid enjoyable things.)

As far as the close quarters issues on board a ship, there are several factors to consider. One I already mentioned was the grouping together of people from distant locations. Next is the common areas allow for repeated contact. Normally if you passed an infectious person at the mall, if you didn't get infected that would be the end of it. On board a ship what you get is an amplification factor. You miss the infection the first time or two but other people don't. Pretty soon there are many infectious people and you are exposed to more organisms, and so on.

In a community, you can often observe an infection running its course. It's common when all the kids return to school. The one or two sick kids now infect 10 or 20. They go home and infect their parents who go to work and infect the adults who don't have kids and so on. By October, people all around you seem to be sniffling and coughing. Sometimes it even involves TV newscasters and talk show hosts. So at various times, infections affect a large number of people in any community. The rate of new infections peak as those who were susceptible develop immunity. And things return to normal.

On a cruise ship, there is a setup for this type of event to occur depending on what organism is involved, how infectious, how easily transmitted, how many people are susceptible and most important in this case, is how short is the incubation period? One of the reasons Noro virus spread is successful on a cruise is the short incubation period allows amplification to occur. You don't get amplification on buses, trains and the shopping mall like you do when 4,000 people are together for a week or two.

[Beady]

All those measures, Beady? Some hand sanitizer and updating your vaccinations?

I see my doctor a couple of times a year; my shots are as up-to-date as they need to be. Never used hand sanitizer; I've found soap and water to be adequate.

In short, I've assessed the risks and judge them to be statistically indistinguishable from those I normally run. I plan to take far more caution in the souvenirs I buy (think I'll talk to a couple of friends in ICE about drugs hidden in straw dolls, and such). Oh, and I'm planning on trying parasailing; far as I can see, odds of getting hurt there are considerably greater than of catching a cruise-related disease (especially after watching some of the clips on America's Funniest Videos).

[Antiquehunter]

After 30 months in Afghanistan and the assorted health risks (including one of the highest airborne human fecal coliform counts in the world) I say bring it on Caribbean cruises!

-AH.

[Beady]

After 30 months in Afghanistan and the assorted health risks (including one of the highest airborne human fecal coliform counts in the world)...

Can I sit next to you at meals?

[Antiquehunter]

Only if you promise to use hand sanitizer and carry your immunization record with you to the table. ;)

[Beady]

At least you didn't say anything about hacking, coughing, farting and (lack of) deoderant.

[VPescado]

At least you didn't say anything about hacking, coughing, farting and (lack of) deoderant.

Ok...I am adding deoderant to my list (perhaps with some extras to hand out).

[duppyraces]

Common sense alone should tell you crowding 4,000 people on a cruise ship will result in the spread of some infectious disease.

And common sense alone tells me it will also result in some sort of hangover. Common sense should have told me that on my last cruise. Night after night after night.


So much for common sense. I'm bringing a rubber band and a pack of gum!

[Beady]

Common sense alone should tell you crowding 4,000 people on a cruise ship will result in the spread of some infectious disease.

I missed this, 1st time around.

Common sense should tell you that it is possible, not that it is certain or even likely. In fact, history seems to indicate that, while the possibility of a shipboard epidemic is greater than on land, the actual likelihood is almost nil.

Statistically, ***** happens. What I pay attention to is the statistical part, not that it happens at all.

[Skeptic Ginger]

With 4,000 people, I'll go with probable. How many is where the variation occurs.

[Beady]

With 4,000 people, I'll go with probable. How many is where the variation occurs.

With 4,000 people, someone will get sick. A population that size, there's someone sick all the time. Big deal.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Beady, it's OK. Enjoy the cruise, skip the hand sanitizer.

The way I look at risk avoidance is to make rational choices based on good data. As long as you have good data, the rest is personal preference and common sense.

I like bacon. Some people might never eat bacon wanting to have a healthier diet. One looks at the enjoyment of the bacon over the benefit of the healthier diet and decides. It isn't risk free to eat bacon. But it isn't risk free to drive in a car or get out of bed or stay in bed. Everyone makes these choices constantly and they are indeed choices, not absolutes.

I think anyone not wearing a seat belt (unless they truly are uncomfortable for the individual) and anyone who doesn't have a working smoke alarm in their house is making a bad decision about their safety. But going on a cruise where there is a small increase in infectious disease is certainly not a bad decision. I eat at restaurants where there is an increased risk of infection because all restaurant employees are not as careful as I am preparing food. But that doesn't stop me from eating out.

I merely brought up a couple of measures that were prudent to take. I didn't say you were a fool to go or you were going to get sick if you go. I recommend the hand sanitizer and the vaccinations. I'm not going to give up bacon and I'll be eating out this weekend.

[LazarusLong]

OK, this is a bit off-topic, as it doesn't involve What To Bring, but neither do the last 20 posts, so there.

I just happened to have NASA TV on this morning, awaiting the launch of Discovery, and they mentioned that the next scheduled mission is shuttle Atlantis to launch on 8/28! Now wouldn't that be a glorious way to start the Amaz!ng Adventure - to stand on deck waiting to head out to sea and catch a glimpse of Atlantis taking to the heavens 165 miles away. OK, I know, you probably can't even see it from that far, but it's a cool thought anyway.

Laz

[Mattfn]

Laz, we've been discussing it:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58711

[Skeptic Ginger]

NOROVIRUS, CRUISE SHIPS - EUROPE (http://www.promedmail.org/pls/askus/f?p=2400:1001:12289529488290180421::NO::F2400_P100 1_BACK_PAGE,F2400_P1001_PUB_MAIL_ID:1000,33455)By 5 Jul 2006, a total of 35 outbreaks of
gastrointestinal infection had been reported on 13 cruise ships
travelling around Europe. Norovirus (NoV) has been confirmed as the
aetiological agent for outbreaks on 9 of the 13 ships. A total of
1088 cases have been reported, of which at least 642 (59 percent) are
known to have been in passengers and 64 (6 percent) in crew members. They do go on to say it reflects community outbreaks and not specific cruise ship sources. :D Wash those hands, campers.

[Beady]

I remember, just before the much-anticipated release on DVD of "The Fellowship of the Ring," someone tried spreading the rumor that the picture was distorted. Seems like there's always someone trying to rain on your parade.

[Jeff Wagg]

NOROVIRUS, CRUISE SHIPS - EUROPE (http://www.promedmail.org/pls/askus/f?p=2400:1001:12289529488290180421::NO::F2400_P100 1_BACK_PAGE,F2400_P1001_PUB_MAIL_ID:1000,33455)The y do go on to say it reflects community outbreaks and not specific cruise ship sources. :D Wash those hands, campers.

And watch those figures. I mean that in all senses.

[Antiquehunter]

Deleted...

[Antiquehunter]

Skeptigirl...

Thank you for all your cautions about the risks of cruising.

I believe I am now well aware of the risks I am taking by choosing to go on vacation for one week. On a boat. With other people.

However, given that a vehicle-borne explosive device blew the windows out of my office on July 4th, and that I have returned to Kabul from Jalalabad after a 4 hour drive along roads that are undergoing demining, I believe the relative risk of catching a moderately annoying gastro-intestinal illness while unwinding from my life here in Kabul is a risk I'm willing to take.

Indeed, I may throw caution to the wind and not wear a surgical mask while on board.

And I promise I'll eat my vegetables too.

-AH.

[Beady]

Antiquehunter:
:th:

[Skeptic Ginger]

More exaggeration of my mention of vaccines and hand sanitizer.

[duppyraces]

I'm sorry people, but this thread has been derailed for far too long. It's supposed to be about what to bring on the cruise. I'd really appreciate it if you'd all just stop bickering and stick to the subject.

So. For formal night, I'm bringing the Norwalk virus. Not just for me either, but enough for everyone! Woo!

AH, you need to bring some dirt from Kabul. I need it to complete my "aground the world" collection.

[Antiquehunter]

OK - One vial of Afghan dirt. Check.

[duppyraces]

Oh boy oh boy! Will they let you on the plane with that?

[Antiquehunter]

It will be inert dirt - I'll remove all the UXO first. (Unexploded ordnance)

Of course there is always the depleted uranium to consider...

(If I was flying through a country with really high agriculture protection standards - then I probably would not be allowed. I think the US does have restrictions on soil, but its a chance I'm willing to take...)

[Hutch]

Duppy, do you need any Egyptian desert dust? You'll have to wait until TAM5 to collect it (I'll be there in Nov06), but if I'm lucky I'll be able to scoop it up right next to the Great Pyramid.

Let me know.

[duppyraces]

It will be inert dirt - I'll remove all the UXO first. (Unexploded ordnance)

Of course there is always the depleted uranium to consider...

(If I was flying through a country with really high agriculture protection standards - then I probably would not be allowed. I think the US does have restrictions on soil, but its a chance I'm willing to take...) Oh, surrre. Tell them it's inert. Tell them it's "just dirt for some chick." I mean, whatever would they think of someone flying from Kabul with a vial of anything? Vials are inherently mysterious. I know what *I'd* think. RUN, IT'S A WMD! ;) (Because running always works)

Is that a vial in your pocket or are ya just....nah. Too easy.

And Hutch, thank you so much for the offer! You know, I really don't have an "aground the world" collection. I was being silly. But now I might start one. Desert dust from the great pyramid would rock! How exciting that you are going to Egypt!

[Curnir]

Oh, surrre. Tell them it's inert. Tell them it's "just dirt for some chick." I mean, whatever would they think of someone flying from Kabul with a vial of anything? Vials are inherently mysterious. I know what *I'd* think. RUN, IT'S A WMD! ;) (Because running always works)

Is that a vial in your pocket or are ya just....nah. Too easy.

And Hutch, thank you so much for the offer! You know, I really don't have an "aground the world" collection. I was being silly. But now I might start one. Desert dust from the great pyramid would rock! How exciting that you are going to Egypt!

So I take it you don't want me to bring some samples from some luverly places were I'm from.

[duppyraces]

So I take it you don't want me to bring some samples from some luverly places were I'm from. Aren't you from Winterspring or the Alterac Mountains or something like that?

[Curnir]

Aren't you from Winterspring or the Alterac Mountains or something like that?

I was an apprentice at Dalaran when the burning legion came.

[duppyraces]

I was an apprentice at Dalaran when the burning legion came. Nice to know we'll have a vending machine on this cruise. Now I get what they said about free food. Hey, can I get a port to Ft. Lauderdale? :)

[SkepticScott]

Methinks I'll need to bring a World of Warcraft to English dictionary on the cruise to understand what some people are talking about. ;)

[Geek Goddess]

AH, you need to bring some dirt from Kabul. I need it to complete my "aground the world" collection.

Dang, I've not been collecting dirt on my travels. Does a rock from Omaha Beach count? (Even if my mom WROTE on it with a Sharpie - Omaha Beach 2004)?

[SkepticScott]

Does a rock from Omaha Beach count?Is that from theOmaha Beach (as with Sword, Gold, Juno, and Utah)?

[Hutch]

And Hutch, thank you so much for the offer! You know, I really don't have an "aground the world" collection. I was being silly. But now I might start one. Desert dust from the great pyramid would rock! How exciting that you are going to Egypt!

Well, you'll probably have to remind me about October. Old dudes like me get pretty forgetful in our dotage...

This'll be my fourth trip to Cairo and while it is exciting to be in a foreign country, the 22 hour trip getting there is becoming less exciting every year...but the pyramids are worth seeing and one of these years (maybe this one) I'll make it to Upper Egypt and the Valley of the Kings--or my alternate is a side trip to Constantinope and Asia Minor (if so, I'll see if I can bring back some soil from Troy).

We shall see.

[Antiquehunter]

I will pre-empt any paranoid postings from a prior pundit that possibly could prejudice or paralyze pre-cruise planning, by pasting this piece about Princess Cruise Lines penultimate predicament in this place.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_re_us/cruise_ship

[Jeff Wagg]

I will pre-empt any paranoid postings from a prior pundit that possibly could prejudice or paralyze pre-cruise planning, by pasting this piece about Princess Cruise Lines penultimate predicament in this place.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_re_us/cruise_ship

No need to worry.. we'll be claimed by the triangle LONG before anything like this could happen.

BTW.. brand new ship there...

[Antiquehunter]

Cool. Is getting claimed by the triangle included? Or is that one of those $139 add-on excursions? ;)

ETA: And I'd like to request seating next to Hal when this happens - maybe he can convince me to believe as we're going down.

[Beady]

"The Crown Princess had been christened by Martha Stewart (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Martha+Stewart) last month before it embarked on its maiden voyage to the Caribbean..."

That explains it.

[Hagrok]

A compass. (hmm wonder if I could get one at the Ft. Lauderdale army/navy surplus?)
You can get one at Walmart in the camping section :) I'm quite certain Ft. Lauderdale has at least one...