Loose Change - Part II

[WildCat]

Official?

Which of the hundreds of 9/11 CTs are you referring to?
This is what they call the gov't version of events. It's meant to imply that all CT's are the same, so the CT'ers claims of pods, controlled demos, missiles, etc. is every bit as legitimate as the official version backed up by mountains of evidence.

[Brainster]

LC extra footage featuring Sentinel (Paul Isaac Jr.) can be seen here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7440129306993364432&pl=true). Starts at about the 7:40 mark.

No foreign accent, but I'll be damned if I can figure out where this guy is coming from or what his views are.

It is my impression that Isaac was being a good guy that afternoon, arguing with Bermas that their demonstration was inappropriate for what was going on at Ground Zero that day (9/11/05). And he was dead on correct; as I've said there's no real difference between Dylan Avery and Fred Phelps.

I don't know if Sentinel is really Isaac or not. If he is, it's my impression that he's arguing that he's not a conspiracy theory nutbar like some websites claim he is.

[bob_kark]

This is what they call the gov't version of events. It's meant to imply that all CT's are the same, so the CT'ers claims of pods, controlled demos, missiles, etc. is every bit as legitimate as the official version backed up by mountains of evidence.

Oh, I'm sorry, I call that reality.

[WildCat]

I don't know if Sentinel is really Isaac or not.
Over here (http://www.campusprogress.org/page/community/post/Sentinel/CLFp) a poster named "Sentinel" signs off as "Paul Isaac Jr", I think they are the same person. At least they have the same incomprehensible writing style...

[RandFan]

The official CT.Are you talking about the explanation for 9/11 advanced by The 9-11 Commission Report (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/)?

I'm sorry but that doesn't really fit the definition of "Conspiracy Theory" as I understand the term. And to characterize it as such is to be disingenuous or ignorant of the facts, IMO.

Do you have any evidence or reason to characterize it as such?

[RandFan]

Oh, I'm sorry, I call that reality.Yeah, that's where most of us live.

[MarkyX]

I don't know if Sentinel is really Isaac or not. If he is, it's my impression that he's arguing that he's not a conspiracy theory nutbar like some websites claim he is.

He is, I asked.

One of these days I'm going to buy him a beer if I go to New York.

[Polaris]

The whole milieu in which they operated was omitted. The Rudys, Wolfgangs and Juergens they hung around with, the strip-clubs, the coke, the timeline and on and on. And yes, you are right. I have to base these claims on Hopsicker and the people he interviewed (like Attas girlfriend Amanda Keller). He sadly was the only one investigating.


WTC steel, Pentagon videos... you want to tell me the surveillance camera tapes lately released compromised national security? And again, these videos where not used in a federal investigation "USA vs. Unknown" but in a laughable trial against retarded and tortured Moussaoui. (btw, i think Flight 77 hit the pentagon, don't worry).


Is the Omar Saeed Sheikh/General Mahmoud/ISI-Connection covered in the Report?
[/QUOTE]

Omar Saeed Sheikh wasn't involved in 9/11.

And apparently you've never heard of taqfir (or ketman). Lying to the infidel for the good of Islam is a sacred duty for believers in that doctrine. Martyrdom is sort of like the ultimate Yom Kippur, or indulgence in the old Papal sense of the word. Anything they do before then is stripped away if they martyr themselves for Allah - especially if they do things abhorrant to their sense of morality to throw the hated infidels off their trail (things like drinking and gambling publicly - drinking, btw, isn't nearly as bad in Islam as other things, you may find - ask any number of Turks or Iranians). Taqfir incidentally is strong among Egyptian Ikhwan/Wahhab-enthusiasts. And also, these weren't normal people, even among jihadis - even they have a low percentage of people who sign up to become suicide bombers. The 19 scumbags were extreme versions of the same insulating, encapsulating self-fulfilling pathology that affected Joseph D. Pistone. In case you're unfamiliar with that name, he was the undercover FBI agent whom "Donnie Brasco" was based on. I'm sure he felt repulsed by the things he did in order to keep from blowing his cover. Think of that as taqfir for the good guys - and he had a much less millenarian motive for doing what he did. There were no 72 virgins waiting for him when he got Benjamin Ruggiero and Dominick Napolitano thrown in prison.

[60hzxtl]

LC extra footage featuring Sentinel (Paul Isaac Jr.) can be seen here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7440129306993364432&pl=true). Starts at about the 7:40 mark.

No foreign accent, but I'll be damned if I can figure out where this guy is coming from or what his views are.


Pretty painful to get to the 7:40 mark - Ya gotta watch Dylan playing the part of Dylan the brave guerilla poster.

Later you get to take time out for Dylan to hug one of the regulars, a ground zero huckster who sells maps to the tourists.

Stick around for Dylan the disinformation expert, leading the widow Leila Negron around by the innuendo.


Hey Rand Fan, a pleasure to be in your company. We are both BS you know.

[WildCat]

Pretty painful to get to the 7:40 mark - Ya gotta watch Dylan playing the part of Dylan the brave guerilla poster.
Pssst, you can use the scroll tab to go right to it... :cool:

[Childlike Empress]

Omar Saeed Sheikh wasn't involved in 9/11.
He was.

1.1 Inside the four flights

[10 lines of bla-bla cutted]

Atta and Omari arrived in Boston at 6:45. Seven minutes later, Atta apparently took a call from Marvin al Shehhi, a longtime collegue who was at another terminal at Logan Airpoert. They spoke for three minutes³. It would be their final conversation.

³ The call was placed from a pay phone in Terminal C (...). We presume Shehhi made this call, but we cannot be sure.
Critical thinking, huh?

[Apollyon]

It's called opinion.
That's exactly what it was. Don't state it as a fact.

There was no lawsuit. No chain of evidence. Only snatches of LC-Quality. Maximum.
Who are they going to sue, the dead guys?

And your "chain of evidence" claim sounds like meaningless jargon.

The whole milieu in which they operated was omitted. The Rudys, Wolfgangs and Juergens they hung around with, the strip-clubs, the coke, the timeline and on and on. And yes, you are right. I have to base these claims on Hopsicker and the people he interviewed (like Attas girlfriend Amanda Keller). He sadly was the only one investigating.
That's just patently false. I would suggest you begin on Section 7, which is page 215 of the report and do some reading. You'll find out plenty of information on timelines and relationships concerning these guys. As far as the strip clubs, coke, etc. that's not really cogent to the investigation or any sort of component necessary to proving these guys were involved. It's like specifying whether they wore boxers, briefs, or went commando. While that may be telling in some small way, who cares?

WTC steel, Pentagon videos... you want to tell me the surveillance camera tapes lately released compromised national security? And again, these videos where not used in a federal investigation "USA vs. Unknown" but in a laughable trial against retarded and tortured Moussaoui. (btw, i think Flight 77 hit the pentagon, don't worry).
First of all, the WTC steel was thoroughly looked at, repsenetative samples were taken, and it was analyzed. Would you like to point you to some links from NIST and other sites that shows the WTC steel?

As far as the Pentagon videos, even though they were confiscated that still doesn't make them public property that they can release on a whim. They've also stated that the vast majority of the videos they have don't show any plane.

Is the Omar Saeed Sheikh/General Mahmoud/ISI-Connection covered in the Report?
Excuse me, but how does that answer my question?

You mean like in "the most successful psyop"-Zarqawi?
Proof? Not conjecture either.

I leave you for now, boys. See you later.
My son is not even a boy. But presumptions seem to be par for the course for you.

[Childlike Empress]

I'm sorry but that doesn't really fit the definition of "Conspiracy Theory" as I understand the term.
And that is?

[Childlike Empress]

That's exactly what it was. Don't state it as a fact.
I didn't.

Who are they going to sue, the dead guys?

And your "chain of evidence" claim sounds like meaningless jargon.
"Chain of evidence" is a meaningless jargon for you? You (the USA) even did it for the Nazis in Nuremburg.


That's just patently false. I would suggest you begin on Section 7, which is page 215 of the report and do some reading. You'll find out plenty of information on timelines and relationships concerning these guys. As far as the strip clubs, coke, etc. that's not really cogent to the investigation or any sort of component necessary to proving these guys were involved. It's like specifying whether they wore boxers, briefs, or went commando. While that may be telling in some small way, who cares?
Who cares? I think that's the whole problem here. Who cares as long as you are able to win a "debate"?

...
Proof? Not conjecture either.
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890_pf.html

[Childlike Empress]

#15 :)

edit: :( How many posts does it take in this elitist forum to get the permission for an avatar?

[WildCat]

He was.


Critical thinking, huh?
Uh, that quote mentions Omar Saeed Sheikh where?

[Gravy]

Chlidlike Empress, things seem to have gotten off to a very bad start here. How about this: s

1) State who you think is responsible for the terrorist acts of 9/11.

2) Present coherent evidence that supports your position.

[WildCat]

#15 :)

edit: :( How many posts does it take in this elitist forum to get the permission for an avatar?
50, sucks I know.

[Childlike Empress]

Why should i, Gravy? I explained what in my opinion is the key evidence for 9/11 beeing an inside job. Please answer to that, alpha dog.

[Childlike Empress]

Uh, that quote mentions Omar Saeed Sheikh where?
Sorry, WildCat, the two parts of my post weren't connected. Omar's story is a real long one (http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP310A.html). And thanks for the information.

[Gravy]

Did you here the latest?

Dylan's going Hollywood,LOL.

Sentinel

Yes, we have heard that Dylan Avery is trying to get a distrubution deal for "Loose Change Final Cut." You'll find that people are pretty well informed here.

Paul, perhaps you can answer some questions that your internet posts have raised. You've PM'd me twice, and I've asked you to state your case here.

1) Do you know of any members of the FDNY who were at the WTC during 9/11 and believe, today, that the buildings were brought down by demolitions charges?

2) You've made the accusation that Dylan Avery "stole" from you the idea of using the demolition of the Maspeth holding tanks as "evidence" for the WTC CD theory. The planning, neighborhood concerns, and demolition are all matters of public record. What do you find suspicious about the destruction of those tanks?

3) Do you believe that the U.S. government was involved with the planning and execution of the terrorist attacks?

[Gravy]

Why should i, Gravy? I explained what in my opinion is the key evidence for 9/11 beeing an inside job. Please answer to that, alpha dog.
Why should you? Because you're making a serious accusation. 9/11 was an inside job by whom? Please try to present a coherent hypothesis.

[RandFan]

And that is?

Conspiracy theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory)

A conspiracy theory attempts to explain the ultimate cause of an event (usually a political, social, or historical event) as a secret, and often deceptive, plot by a covert alliance of powerful people or organizations rather than as an overt activity or as natural occurrence.

While history has shown that crimes carried out by a group of people (a "conspiracy") are not uncommon, the term "conspiracy theory" is usually used by scholars and in popular culture to identify a type of folklore similar to an urban legend, having certain regular features, especially an explanatory narrative which is constructed with certain naïve methodological flaws.

[Gravy]

#15 :)

edit: :( How many posts does it take in this elitist forum to get the permission for an avatar?
That's a big concern for you? Perhaps you should focus on coherency.

[Axiom_Blade]

No foreign accent, but I'll be damned if I can figure out where this guy is coming from or what his views are.

It seems like Isaac is just saying: It's inappropriate to spread your propaganda about 9/11 around the 9/11 memorial. They're taking advantage of people while they're grieving. Classic culty behavior.

And, CHRIST, that guy with the backwards hat is annoying: like some kind of wacky, wind-up CT jukebox.

"There's over 400 family members suing the Bush Administration for carrying out the attacks!"

"Maybe we should tell Vietnam veterans the Gulf of Tonkin never happened! Maybe we should go along with the official version!"

Bystander: "The same people who killed Kennedy, did this."
Baseball Hat Guy: "That's right, sir."

This guy can sure compress a LOT of crazy into a short stretch. That was in less than five minutes, right there!

[Gravy]

It seems like Isaac is just saying:And, CHRIST, that guy with the backwards hat is annoying: like some kind of wacky, wind-up CT jukebox.
That's Jason Bermas, who gets his history from the back of "Kaptain Konspiracy" cereal boxes.

[WildCat]

It seems like Isaac is just saying: It's inappropriate to spread your propaganda about 9/11 around the 9/11 memorial.
True, but he seems to agree w/ the CT. Just read his posts here (http://www.campusprogress.org/page/community/post/Sentinel/CLFp).

At least he doesn't dance on the victim's graves like the loosers do.

[Brainster]

It seems like Isaac is just saying: It's inappropriate to spread your propaganda about 9/11 around the 9/11 memorial. They're taking advantage of people while they're grieving. Classic culty behavior.

And, CHRIST, that guy with the backwards hat is annoying: like some kind of wacky, wind-up CT jukebox.

That's Jason Bermas, Dylan's research guy and webmaster. Note as well that he lies several times to Isaac, saying that he doesn't know any of the other people there, that he's never met them.

[Childlike Empress]

A conspiracy theory attempts to explain the ultimate cause of an event (usually a political, social, or historical event) as a secret, and often deceptive, plot by a covert alliance of powerful people or organizations rather than as an overt activity or as natural occurrence.

While history has shown that crimes carried out by a group of people (a "conspiracy") are not uncommon, the term "conspiracy theory" is usually used by scholars and in popular culture to identify a type of folklore similar to an urban legend, having certain regular features, especially an explanatory narrative which is constructed with certain naïve methodological flaws.
Ok, you're a Wikipedia-Guy. I personally have some kind of problems drawing the border between common crimes and "folklore". Sorry.

Why should you? Because you're making a serious accusation. 9/11 was an inside job by whom? Please try to present a coherent hypothesis.
Nope. I'm trying to falsify the common hypothesis. If i am successful at that (or nobody proves it), we all should try to find a better one.

Good night, sleep tight, and don’t let the bed bugs bite.

[CptColumbo]

If someone could tell me why I just got suspended on the LC forum, I would appreciate it.

[Brainster]

True, but he seems to agree w/ the CT. Just read his posts here (http://www.campusprogress.org/page/community/post/Sentinel/CLFp).

At least he doesn't dance on the victim's graves like the loosers do.

This constitutes evidence that somebody set up a page on Campus Progress who claims to be Paul Isaac, Jr., just as this constitutes evidence that somebody set up a page on Campus Progress who claims to be Dylan Avery (http://www.campusprogress.org/page/community/blog/Nutbar). ;)

[Axiom_Blade]

Ok, you're a Wikpedia-Guy.


What's this dissing on Wikipedia?!
If you have a problem with something from wikipedia, explain why. Don't just dismiss it out of hand because you don't like the source.


Nope. I'm trying to falsify the common hypothesis. If i am successful at that (or nobody proves it), we all should try to find a better one.


But that's what every CT does. What's wrong with making a claim, and then backing it up with evidence?

[WildCat]

If someone could tell me why I just got suspended on the LC forum, I would appreciate it.
You know why, shill! :boggled:

[WildCat]

This constitutes evidence that somebody set up a page on Campus Progress who claims to be Paul Isaac, Jr., just as this constitutes evidence that somebody set up a page on Campus Progress who claims to be Dylan Avery (http://www.campusprogress.org/page/community/blog/Nutbar). ;)
Yes, it's all very confusing. If only Paul could manage to write a coherent thought down the mystery would end!

[CptColumbo]

You know why, shill! :boggled:
I never even posted a disagreement with Dylan and company. I only advocated a written debate rather than a live one.

[Axiom_Blade]

If you Google "Paul Isaac Jr" you get some real gems, from interviews with him. Unless the CTers completely made up these quotes:

I know 9-11 was an inside job, the police know it’s an inside job, and the firemen know it too.


New York firemen were very upset by what they considered a cover-up in the WTC destruction. Many other firemen knew there were bombs in the buildings, but they are afraid for their jobs to admit it because the higher-ups forbid discussion of this fact.


There were definitely bombs in those buildings.


Seems like it's pretty obvious which side he's on.

[Gravy]

Nope. I'm trying to falsify the common hypothesis. If i am successful at that (or nobody proves it), we all should try to find a better one.

You said,
Gravy? I explained what in my opinion is the key evidence for 9/11 beeing an inside job.
I haven't seen whose complicity that evidence supposedly points to. Who do you believe pulled off the inside job?

[RandFan]

Ok, you're a Wikipedia-Guy. I personally have some kind of problems drawing the border between common crimes and "folklore". Sorry. ??? I don't have any clue what the hell this is supposed to mean. It makes no sense. There is, demonstrably, lots of folklore surrounding many crimes, real, fake, common, uncommon, whatever.

Look, the term "conspiracy theory" has a meaning. You can use it differently if you want but it calls into question your sincerity. It causes people to wonder if you are just simply playing word games. If you want to redefine the term then that is fine. The hijackers certainly formed a conspiracy. If you want to refer to the plan carried out by the hijackers as a "conspiracy theory" then that would be technically correct but you are using it quite differently than the rest of us are.

BTW, calling me a "Wikipedia-Guy" doesn't advance your argument.

[Brainster]

If you Google "Paul Isaac Jr" you get some real gems, from interviews with him. Unless the CTers completely made up these quotes:







Seems like it's pretty obvious which side he's on.

Yes, unless the CTers completely made up those quotes. Or, alternately, Dylan could have been lying in the Loose Change Extra Footage video when he introduced the guy Bermas had the argument with. But I have a hard time believing that the man I saw in that video is the same person who made those quotes. It's possible; maybe he found out how much money Dylan's been making off his CDs and thought he could cash in himself. But the alternative--that the CTers lied about him in a petty act of revenge seems a little more likely.

[R.Mackey]

Welcome Empress. Looks like we have a newcomer with a new angle.

I'm sorry, I admit I had some difficulty parsing exactly what your theory is, so I'm going back to your list of observations... please correct me if I misinterpret your position.

The key issues? The cover-up is the key issue.
Your theory is that there is a cover-up. Fair enough. Hard to exhaustively disprove, unlike the nonsense about controlled demolition, although I personally don't think there was one. It will help if we have some details about this cover-up, i.e. what was covered up, who covered it, and how.

1. The USA is a constitutional republic. Mass murder is the most serious crime one can commit. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation "USA vs. Unknown, case: the massmurder of September 11th 2001"? Instead of this the FBI came up on the first day with this list of 19 Highjackers which wasn't changed till then, they showed us a crappy videostill of Atta entering an Airport, his passport and a Koran and a Testament in his alleged car. Where is the chain of evidence for the official CT?
Erm... There was an investigation, but the 19 Hijackers was a pretty simple conclusion. In brief, we know they boarded the planes (passenger lists, video evidence, eyewitnesses in the airports), have corroborating descriptions from phone calls from the hijacked planes, found at least some of their DNA in wreckage, voice recorder evidence, and have video claiming responsibility from their conspirators. Do you have evidence that casts doubt on this conclusion? If so, that would be grounds to reopen the investigation, but I'd like to see it before casting judgment, if you don't mind.

2. The FBI investigated in Florida for a few weeks, then they were ordered back to investigate the "Anthrax letters". They never returned and a lot of people say, the FBI told them not to talk about their experiences. Who was behind the anthrax letters the FBI so diligently investigated?
What makes you think the entire FBI was taken off one case and put on another? Sounds sketchy. Can you support this assertion? Who are these "lot of people" you're talking about, and what do they know that was overlooked?

(I don't know who was behind the anthrax letters either, but it may have been totally unrelated. Let's stick to one investigation at a time, please.)

3. The people I mentioned in 2. were interviewed by Daniel Hopsicker - he has to do the work of the whole investigative apparatus of the US. He found out that Mohammed Attas trail leads directly into the international organized crime scene and that the "Commision Report" can indeed be called an "Omission Report".
You didn't mention any people in 2., just said that there were some. I gravely doubt that Hopsicker "had to do the work of the whole investigative apparatus of the US." That's balmy, sorry. You'll need to show a whole lot of evidence before I believe this trail of breadcrumbs leading to International Organized Crime, and you haven't shown any whatsoever.

4. Evidence was destroyed or is under closure.
What evidence? Prove it.

5. The Legend was tweaked several times and people like the alleged masterminds Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh are not on trial or were even allowed to witness in the Moussaoui-trial.
I don't know what "The Legend" refers to. Anyway, this is a non sequitur. I'm not the least bit satisfied with how the Moussaoui trial was handled myself, but I don't see the guest list supporting your allegations of a 9/11 coverup. They didn't let me in to witness the OJ trial, either, for what it's worth.

6. "Coincidently", parts of the "Truth movement" have connections to the very same people that should be under investigation and their net of "woo"-spreading clowns.
I have no idea what you're talking about. It almost seems that you're implying the Loose Changers should be jailed and questioned -- surely that can't be what you mean?

YOU are the people who don't get the bigger picture - not the folks over at the LC Forum.
If so, how about you help us get the picture? Like with some evidence? You've posted several quite fantastic statements above without a shred of support, so I would suggest you back it up. Otherwise, this is quite an arrogant thing to say.

[WildCat]

Yes, unless the CTers completely made up those quotes. Or, alternately, Dylan could have been lying in the Loose Change Extra Footage video when he introduced the guy Bermas had the argument with. But I have a hard time believing that the man I saw in that video is the same person who made those quotes. It's possible; maybe he found out how much money Dylan's been making off his CDs and thought he could cash in himself. But the alternative--that the CTers lied about him in a petty act of revenge seems a little more likely.
Like I said, he can post here and clarify if he'd like. But I'll be damned if I can understand anything he's posted so far, he seems a bit loopy...

[Orb]

ETA : mistake post, sorry

[Gravy]

Yes, unless the CTers completely made up those quotes.
My money's on the CTs with this one.

ETA: That is, that they didn't make up those quotes.

[Childlike Empress]

I haven't seen whose complicity that evidence supposedly points to. Who do you believe pulled off the inside job?
I don't know, alpha dog.

The key issues? The cover-up is the key issue.

1. The USA is a constitutional republic. Mass murder is the most serious crime one can commit. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation "USA vs. Unknown, case: the massmurder of September 11th 2001"? Instead of this the FBI came up on the first day with this list of 19 Highjackers which wasn't changed till then, they showed us a crappy videostill of Atta entering an Airport, his passport and a Koran and a Testament in his alleged car. Where is the chain of evidence for the official CT?

2. The FBI investigated in Florida for a few weeks, then they were ordered back to investigate the "Anthrax letters". They never returned and a lot of people say, the FBI told them not to talk about their experiences. Who was behind the anthrax letters the FBI so diligently investigated?

3. The people I mentioned in 2. were interviewed by Daniel Hopsicker - he has to do the work of the whole investigative apparatus of the US. He found out that Mohammed Attas trail leads directly into the international organized crime scene and that the "Commision Report" can indeed be called an "Omission Report".

4. Evidence was destroyed or is under closure.

5. The Legend was tweaked several times and people like the alleged masterminds Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh are not on trial or were even allowed to witness in the Moussaoui-trial.

6. "Coincidently", parts of the "Truth movement" have connections to the very same people that should be under investigation and their net of "woo"-spreading clowns.

YOU are the people who don't get the bigger picture - not the folks over at the LC Forum.

Please answer.

@R. Mackey: No theory here. I want evidence for the Official CT. I WANT TO BELIEVE. More tomorrow. Good night.

edit: only 19 posts. Check the links (and make sure to watch wkjo.com). I admit it's only one click.

[Gravy]

I don't know, alpha dog.

@R. Mackey: No theory here. I want evidence for the Ofiicial CT. I WANT TO BELIEVE. More tomorrow. Good night.
Sorry, childlike, but you're positing a theory that it was an inside job. You said so.

[hellaeon]

wow it just goes on an on.

I liken it to woo, they hear someone say "the government pulled off 9/11" and although confused, lthe person likes or is attracted to the scale of such an implication. From that moment the evidence of the OV is outweighed by the desire for the CT to be real. Reality dismissed, whilst always leaning towards what they wish to be true.

I live in an exciting world, but at least its real. When im wrong and nature and reality does stuff I cant believe I get goosebumps.

[R.Mackey]

I don't know, alpha dog.

Please answer.

@R. Mackey: No theory here. I want evidence for the Official CT. I WANT TO BELIEVE. More tomorrow. Good night.
Umm...

I admit I'm not "alpha dog," that strangely adulatory title deservedly goes to Gravy... but I answered you in detail. Not sure why you'd repost your list to him and then ignore my answers in the same post.

So it's your turn.

Take your time.

[Gravy]

I WANT TO BELIEVE.
That may be the reason for the problem you're having understanding what constitutes evidence.
Oh, and please call me Gravy, so people know who you're addressing.

[Axiom_Blade]

But the alternative--that the CTers lied about him in a petty act of revenge seems a little more likely.

Yes, that had occurred to me, too.
Especially since he's a middle-aged firefighter, with a blog on campusprogress.org . Something seems a bit off there...

[RandFan]

I want evidence for the Official CT explanation. (edit mine)

There is only reams of evidence. Have you made any attempt to look at the ample documentation and evidence? You sound like you have your fingers in your ears and are humming, loudly.

The 9-11 Commission Report (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/)

I WANT TO BELIEVE. You bet, sure.

[bignickel]

@R. Mackey: No theory here. I want evidence for the Official CT. I WANT TO BELIEVE.

Was I the only one who just heard the X-Files theme song in their head after reading that?

[Kage]

Thanks again to everyone (thrid time now!) for helping me convince someone (and debate another person) that this 911 CT theory nonsense is bunk. An argument that has worked marvelously is as follows:

Why is it necessary to recast incompetence and partisan oportunism as evil foresight and conspiracy? What the administration has done has been bad enough, no need to add or subtract from it.

If they were so good at this conspiracy thing, then how come they didn't fake WMD in Iraq? Much simpler than 911, but didn't happen. If you just look at the administrations actions as coming from a place of incompetency and political opportunism this all makes sense. The CT viewpoint just does not fit the data.

Hope this helps anyone who, like me, debates this stuff all the time with friends and family.

[60hzxtl]

Hey Gravy, it's like yer talkin' to yourself over there:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1690781#post1690781

[Apollyon]

I didn't.

Hmmm:

No, it isn't crap. It contains a lot of errors and hearsay and is by far not good enough to convince people like you that the official CT is crap.

The key issues? The cover-up is the key issue.

Call me crazy, but it sure seems like a statement of fact to me.

"Chain of evidence" is a meaningless jargon for you? You (the USA) even did it for the Nazis in Nuremburg.
That's because the Nazis in Nuremburg were still alive.

Who cares? I think that's the whole problem here. Who cares as long as you are able to win a "debate"?
A debate online is not about winning or losing. There is no prize. In situations like this you are either right or you're wrong.

Washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890_pf.html
How does that make Zaqwari a "psy-op campaign?" Your definition of evidence seems to be very lenient for your own opinion and rather ponderous for any opinion that doesn't suit you.

[Axiom_Blade]

If they were so good at this conspiracy thing, then how come they didn't fake WMD in Iraq?

The CTer I used that one on told me that "well, there's evidence that they tried to fake WMDs..."

That they failed at this much smaller, alleged conspiracy didn't seem to faze him. He's an engineering student, too.

[Pardalis]

Stick around for Dylan the disinformation expert, leading the widow Leila Negron around by the innuendo.


I wish I hadn't looked at that footage, that particular part makes me want to strangle Avery now more than ever. :mad:

[Pardalis]

I never even posted a disagreement with Dylan and company. I only advocated a written debate rather than a live one.

I think the criminal got too annoid with Columbo. ;)

[Pardalis]

I personally have some kind of problems drawing the border between common crimes and "folklore". Sorry.

Yeah, and it shows.


I'm trying to falsify the common hypothesis.

You got that right. No argument here.

http://www.answers.com/topic/falsify

[Pardalis]

YOU are the people who don't get the bigger picture - not the folks over at the LC Forum.

What is the big picture? PLEASE inform us! :rolleyes:

[60hzxtl]

What is the big picture? PLEASE inform us! :rolleyes:

Big picture:

We are all helpless. The men in black have manipulated us all and are in control and are taking our tax money and making people hate us and the water tastes bad.

I'd leave for someplace else, but they might not have a nice Starbucks and stuff there.

Oh yeah, and Bush is Hitler, but Hitler was really a nice chap that was misunderstood and stuff, and like there was a war, and stuff, and a lot of people went to that war, and I'm the smartest one in the room and the rest of you just don't get it, 'cause you are a bunch of drones and. . . /

Oh no! My sarcasm chip is overloading! And I got the double sized one!

[Pangea]

I just got done watching Alex Jones' "Rise of the Police State" dvd. I agreed to keep an open mind and take a look at it for a CTist that posts on another board I frequent.
Wow. I am not a violent person, but I really wanted to shove a brick in his face just to shut him up!
UGH!

[MarkyX]

I just got done watching Alex Jones' "Rise of the Police State" dvd. I agreed to keep an open mind and take a look at it for a CTist that posts on another board I frequent.
Wow. I am not a violent person, but I really wanted to shove a brick in his face just to shut him up!
UGH!

You must love the part where he goes around and commit crimes on purpose just so he can show 'how much of a police state' america has become.

[Axiom_Blade]

You must love the part where he goes around and commit crimes on purpose just so he can show 'how much of a police state' america has become.

Like what?
Jaywalking?
Pulling the tags off of mattresses?
Spray-painting "Bush is a Reptoid" on walls?
Where can I watch this video? This sounds funny.

[60hzxtl]

Like what?
Jaywalking?
Pulling the tags off of mattresses?
Spray-painting "Bush is a Reptoid" on walls?
Where can I watch this video? This sounds funny.

The reason those tags are on the mattresses is to track everybody.

Now go to the kitchen and throw out your milk, because it expired at midnight!

[aggle-rithm]

You got that right. No argument here.

http://www.answers.com/topic/falsify

I think the CT's believe that if a theory IS falsifiable, it is a weakness, when it is actually a strength. All the conspiracy theories are bulletproof because no matter what new evidence becomes available, they can invalidate it by pulling some ad hoc explanation from the nether end of their digestive tracts.

So, in the magical realm of CT thought, the only theory that CAN'T be true is...the truth.

[MarkyX]

Like what?
Jaywalking?
Pulling the tags off of mattresses?
Spray-painting "Bush is a Reptoid" on walls?
Where can I watch this video? This sounds funny.

Bascailly he tries to bring a camera into places where cameras aren't allowed. Like he tries to go into a subway with a camera..THREATEN WITH ARREST. He goes to another area with no camera, THREATEN WITH ARREST ROFLCOPTER

This is his evidence that our country has turn into a police state.

[WildCat]

Bascailly he tries to bring a camera into places where cameras aren't allowed. Like he tries to go into a subway with a camera.
Uh-oh, don't tell these guys (http://world.nycsubway.org/index.html)...

[Gravy]

Uh-oh, don't tell these guys (http://world.nycsubway.org/index.html)...

...Or these guys. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1545672&postcount=1)

[MarkyX]

Uh-oh, don't tell these guys (http://world.nycsubway.org/index.html)...

So what the hell was the staff member blabbing about in Jones' video saying no cameras?

[The_Fire]

My guess, without having seen the clip in question, is that he was trying to get into a restricted area.

[Pardalis]

I think the CT's believe that if a theory IS falsifiable, it is a weakness, when it is actually a strength. All the conspiracy theories are bulletproof because no matter what new evidence becomes available, they can invalidate it by pulling some ad hoc explanation from the nether end of their digestive tracts.

So, in the magical realm of CT thought, the only theory that CAN'T be true is...the truth.

Sorry aggle, you got me even more confused here. Guess I really don't understand the CT mind. ;)

[Sentinel]

Yes I have a major problem with that action.
There are 364 other days in the year to debate off consigrated holy ground, but too sit there trying to distract people with the issue of 9-11 to bring attention to yourself is obviously a different matter entirely.


Dylan used to post alot back in the day during 2003 on the lgf board. Now don't get me wrong I'm just pointion out inconsistancies, Like people who write that he is part of a zionist clique and then theres the little jew-bashing he allegedly pulled in 2003 and so on.


He had me fooled because he said he was doing a 9-11 doc but didn't say that jason was with him when we did the interview. Then after he renigged on our agreement to send me the proof that the wingtv article was false and slander he then began his slander campain on me. He then banned me from lc board and so.


The slander is the wingtv American Free press article that was quoted on the lower thread before this one. These people need to be seriously investigated because it seems their story and background doesn't jive.


My feelings on 9-11 is totally seperate from the matter of our little cointel friends coming to the memorial to get famous. This has nothing to do with finding the truth. Its a distraction.


GOD BLESS


Sentinel

[Regnad Kcin]

Er...okay.

[RandFan]

???

"Sign post up ahead..."

[Axiom_Blade]

My feelings on 9-11 is totally seperate from the matter of our little cointel friends coming to the memorial to get famous. This has nothing to do with finding the truth. Its a distraction.


You mean it's like a puzzle wrapped in an enigma, buried under a mystery, surrounded by a conundrum?

[Sentinel]

I'd like to point out something put out by JustDanny from lgd on 6-28-2003 04:28PM PST


"If you're interested in getting involved with SF Indymedia, whether as a reporter on the streets or a staffer in the space, this orientation is for you. Come learn a bit about how to become part of the SF/IMC Collective, how to make both media and trouble, and why all volunteer news reporting is so much more fun. If not now when?"



Question 1 - What is making media?


Question 2- What is making trouble?

Someone ask Dylan since he was writing on behalf of SF/IMC when he alledgedly made the hate crime statements on lgf.



Have a nice day:shocked:


Sentinel

[Sentinel]

What is it ?




Sentinel

[Sentinel]

Thank you Pat from SLC.


"Loosers threaten copyright lawyer"



Is this making trouble to make media anyway you can?



Sentinel

[Pangea]

Bascailly he tries to bring a camera into places where cameras aren't allowed. Like he tries to go into a subway with a camera..THREATEN WITH ARREST. He goes to another area with no camera, THREATEN WITH ARREST ROFLCOPTER

This is his evidence that our country has turn into a police state.
He says several times he was "nearly arrested" then shows footage of police asking him not to film and to leave the area. I have several family members in law enforcement. That was not nearly arrested.
I also like how he claims that some person said "X" then show an online news story that doesn't support his claim, or he gets part of someone's quote right, and adds a few extra words to fit his agenda.
My husband said over and over last night that Jones reminded him of an evangelical minister preaching about the end of the world.

[RandFan]

Hey Sentinel,

I'm at a loss of what you are talking about. Could you provide a link perhaps?

Thanks,

RandFan

[bob_kark]

Dear Sentinel,

Please take your medication.

Your friends,

The JREF Forum

[Gravy]

Sentinel tends to post in short bursts.

Sentinel, if you are out there, you may have missed my questions from yesterday:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1695768&postcount=2271

[WildCat]

Hey Sentinel,

I'm at a loss of what you are talking about. Could you provide a link perhaps?

Thanks,

RandFan
Sentinel only replies to the voices in his head.

[WildCat]

For more mind-blowing stupidity, check out this thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6037&st=0). Claiming that the plane hitting the Pentagon was a 737 drone and the real plane went to Canada. When Payt posted photos of the compressor part found in the rubble, along w/ that same part in the factory, our "tolerant" buddy DJRunaway suspended him for a month.

DJRunaway, what a pathetic loser. Oh yeah, also a coward and a hypocrite and a liar.

[XXX]

What a total joke. Notice that (as far as I can see on the Skeptics and investigate 9/11 forums) not ONE person over there has brought up the fact that DJ ran away from the debate with Gravy after talking all that smack.

And they (Mr DJ man) ban Payt after posting pictures of Pentagon wreakage and arguing about what they were...and they banned him for what?

"No with his constant Moon fights, and comments with no substance, and his attitude...he was just getting annoying and not helping the forum at all."

So it was because he actually believes we went to the moon, and dared to argue about what the facts are regarding the Pentagon wreakage.

Good job "truth seekers"! :covereyes

[WildCat]

So it was because he actually believes we went to the moon, and dared to argue about what the facts are regarding the Pentagon wreakage.

Good job "truth seekers"! :covereyes
You cannot let the facts get in the way of THE TRUTH™.

[RandFan]

Sentinel only replies to the voices in his head.Dan Quayle was right,

What a terrible thing to have lost one's mind. Or not to have a mind at all. How true that is. Who knew?

[XXX]

You cannot let the facts get in the way of THE TRUTH™.

What was it Homer Simpson said? You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

...Or these guys. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1545672&postcount=1)

Oh yeah, I remember that. What was the end result of all that brouhaha?

[Mr. Skinny]

???

"Sign post up ahead..."

"Antelope Drive 1/128 Mile" ??

[kalen]

I think this directly applies to the CTers regarding their opinion about controlled demolition, how hot a particular fire burns, plane crashes, etc., etc.

Unskilled and Unaware of It (http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=406)


When asked, most individuals will describe themselves as better-than-average in areas such as leadership, social skills, written expression, or just about any flavor of savvy where the individual has an interest. This tendency of the average person to believe he or she is better-than-average is known as the "above-average effect," and it flies in the face of logic…



...


The more incompetent someone is in a particular area, the less qualified that person is to assess anyone's skill in that space, including their own.


He makes a reference to a Cornell study.

[RandFan]

"Antelope Drive 1/128 Mile" ?? Twilight Zone.

[Polaris]

He was.

I was thinking of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman. Whew, deal with these names long enough and you can sorta understand how the CTs think the hijackers are still alive.

[hellaeon]

well im suspended now for telling them to stop worrying about things over here they dont agree with. Im not suprised, but I am sick of them already. The parents of those children should show them more attention. It was really a pointless excercise, mostly to see how their minds comprehend things.

Jenabell, jessica and charliesheen if your reading this, you guys should worry about your grade 5 homework, not about things you simply cannot comprehend.

The funny thing about the thread where i got suspended is that the comment that annoyed them the most from here is the most truthful about them, that they profit from the misery. Thats the bit when they tell their friends about it that they dont want to hear. Not only are they wrong but they are just @ssholes to boot.

I did have one or two half decent convos but the level of discussion is far below the average crap board out there. Its truly a well of paranoia and idiocy, but as they would be reading I'd like to thank them for a few laughs

[Gravy]

It IS fascinating to contemplate where these CTs might be, intellectually, in a year or two or three. Who will have dropped out of the movement in disgust, what new rationalizations will CTs have created as safe havens, will they actually be stupid enough to try to camp out in Washington, D.C. in 2007 "until something is done," who will be the first to compare Dylan Avery to Martin Luther King Jr., will a Naudet brother get to treat Les Raphael to a "Buzz Aldrin handshake," will any CT ever attempt to communicate with any 9/11 investigator, will the "pod/missile" theory be resurrected as the "missile/pod" theory, will the "911 Truth Movement" be legally required to change its name to the "911 We Don't Know Sh** from Shinola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinola) Movement," will "disinfotainment" enter the lexicon, will the opening of the Ground Zero Memorial be accompanied by the largest meeting of jackasses since the Nuremburg Rallies, will I finally be free to discuss what I came to this forum to discuss: what would happen if a bigfoot mated with a unicorn?

[milesalpha]

, will I finally be free to discuss what I came to this forum to discuss: what would happen if a bigfoot mated with a unicorn?

A horny dilemna....





(runs for cover)

[Regnad Kcin]

For more mind-blowing stupidity, check out this thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6037&st=0). Claiming that the plane hitting the Pentagon was a 737 drone and the real plane went to Canada. When Payt posted photos of the compressor part found in the rubble, along w/ that same part in the factory, our "tolerant" buddy DJRunaway suspended him for a month.

DJRunaway, what a pathetic loser. Oh yeah, also a coward and a hypocrite and a liar.But...but he's a disc jockey! Surely that places him among the intellectual pantheon.

[DavidJames]

When Payt posted photos of the compressor part found in the rubble, along w/ that same part in the factory, our "tolerant" buddy DJRunaway suspended him for a month.

My response to his post banning payt



Hey DJLegacy2k1, why haven't you returned to the JREF forum after you promised you would. You posted over 75 times, never once providing a single comment refuting Gravy's document. Then when Gravy showed up you disappeared.

Your "cousin" then showed up (with your ID), and claimed you were busy and weren't using your computer. Meanwhile you're found posting on this forum.

If you have something to refute Gravy's work, please return to the debate thread.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58104

Also, why do you ban people when they show evidence which refutes your theories. Why are you afraid of an honest debate.

Let's see how long it lasts :D
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6037&st=30&#entry5218395

[60hzxtl]

Your "cousin" then showed up (with your ID), and claimed you were busy and weren't using your computer. Meanwhile you're found posting on this forum.

]

Don't pick on DJLegacy2k1 - he was out helping a close friend who was involved in a terrible and near fatal turntable accident.

signed-

his mother.

[PopeTom]

Don't pick on DJLegacy2k1 - he was out helping a close friend who was involved in a terrible and near fatal turntable accident.

signed-

his mother.

I'm sorry, but I do not think anyone will be able to acknowledge this as acceptable evidence unless you can link to a video of the original note being read by Juan Epstein.

-PopeTom

PS :)

[Brainster]

For more mind-blowing stupidity, check out this thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6037&st=0). Claiming that the plane hitting the Pentagon was a 737 drone and the real plane went to Canada. When Payt posted photos of the compressor part found in the rubble, along w/ that same part in the factory, our "tolerant" buddy DJRunaway suspended him for a month.

DJRunaway, what a pathetic loser. Oh yeah, also a coward and a hypocrite and a liar.

OMG, what a great letter! "We're investigating 9-11 and were wondering if you'd care to admit that you made modifications to certain aircraft that resulted in the deaths of thousands of people. Oh, and by the way do you know what happened to the 'decoys'?"

[Apollyon]

Let's see how long it lasts :D
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6037&st=30&#entry5218395
That thread is a riot.

It's ironic that the Loosers spend half their time trying to explain away things in clear photographs that people can plainly see, and the other half trying to explain how grainy, artifacted photos and stills show things that nobody but them can see.

[Belz...]

Official?

Which of the hundreds of 9/11 CTs are you referring to?

Why, bob! You didn't get kicked out of Ninja school, did you ??

Or did you just get behind on sock-counting ????

[steve s]

That thread is a riot.

From that same thread, Valis wrote in regard to the planes being loaded with explosives:

I am unfamiliar with that particular theory, but yes, if you include the term "remote detonation." There is reason to believe that perhaps hundereds of Boeing 737s have been modified in this fashion, and are currently in circulation.

A while back I wrote that these guys were beginning to slip over the edge. Slippage is complete.

Steve S.

[Pardalis]

Oh my lord!

[Belz...]

For more mind-blowing stupidity, check out this thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6037&st=0). Claiming that the plane hitting the Pentagon was a 737 drone and the real plane went to Canada. When Payt posted photos of the compressor part found in the rubble, along w/ that same part in the factory, our "tolerant" buddy DJRunaway suspended him for a month.

Woah. From that thread:

That is debatable. Very debatable indeed, on the s9/11t forum; pages and pages worth. I do agree that a 757 is highly unlikely. That said, many of the 9/11 planes appears to have been modified Boeing 737s with incindiaries, possibly solid rocket fuel, (ther consistency of a pencil eraser) concealed within the airplanes themselves that were remotely detonated through the Iridium satallite network.

Ooohh... very likely!

ETA: Removed second quote. Already covered.

[Belz...]

For more mind-blowing stupidity, check out this thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6037&st=0). Claiming that the plane hitting the Pentagon was a 737 drone and the real plane went to Canada. When Payt posted photos of the compressor part found in the rubble, along w/ that same part in the factory, our "tolerant" buddy DJRunaway suspended him for a month.

DJRunaway, what a pathetic loser. Oh yeah, also a coward and a hypocrite and a liar.

This is his "reason" for banning payt:

"No with his constant Moon fights, and comments with no substance, and his attitude...he was just getting annoying and not helping the forum at all. "

"He wasn't agreeing with me".

[chipmunk stew]

With 9/11 CTs becoming epidemic, I expect there will be more and more people whose family and love relationships get strained over this.

I've read several disturbing posts on the LC forums about people commiserating about spouses or significant others or other loved ones who "refuse to listen" or "get angry when I talk about the truth" or the like.

These loved ones need a support system. They need a place where they can arm themselves with facts and talk with others in similar situations.

[chipmunk stew]

From the You've Become What You're Fighting Against department:
Don't worry nesNYC...

All these types of folks [folks such as MarkyX and Gravy] are being "clocked" and I would expect them to be properly scrutinised when 9/11 Truth finally comes out.

This is not saying it's unhealthy to be sceptical, asking questions and demanding answers. Just the blatant anti 9/11 truth propagandists :jaw-dropp

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6066&view=findpost&p=5231546

[MarkyX]

Deleted

[Gravy]

Is anyone still registered over there? I'd like to get a message to LondonEye

LondonEye, you wrote this:
All these types of folks [folks such as MarkyX and Gravy] are being "clocked" and I would expect them to be properly scrutinised when 9/11 Truth finally comes out.

This is not saying it's unhealthy to be sceptical, asking questions and demanding answers. Just the blatant anti 9/11 truth propagandists

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...post&p=5231546
I don't know what you mean by "clocked," but we'll let that slide. You know it's not gentlemanly to make accusations against people when they can't respond, don't you?

DJLegacy sure talked tough. He has all sorts of nasty things to say about me on the LC forum. But look how he slunk away with his tail between his legs when I challenged him. It's your turn to show that you're not a coward, and that you believe in your cause. Talk is cheap, LondonEye. I care about the facts of 9/11. Do you?

The rules are simple. Meet me here:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58104

Pick any number of subjects that you feel "Loose Change" gets right and I get wrong, and we'll see who's pushing the "propaganda." Don't worry about these mean JREFers ganging up on you. This is just between us.

You're not all talk like the rest of your clan, are you? You can find at least one thing that Dylan Avery got right, can't you?

[George]

Awe FFS.
I only post here when I’m either drunk/belligerent/or stoned.
Now will you ****wits say something proper or STFU!
Theirs not a molecule of gange to be had around here at the moment, and I’m totally pisst off.

I do have sensible things to say, but not yet, you aren’t ready. No honest! I do have something sensible to say; but believe me there is not an atom of smoke to be had round here man.
And why has a popup doings just popped up that says, “lie down”. We should be told.

Best regards.

I’ve interrogated each and every wastrel from hubcap thieves to politicians to knicker line thieves, grand larsonests, arsonists, petty larsonests, benefit cheats, cat burglers, telly license evaders,

Er, that’s enough criminal for now (ed)

And theirs nowt to be had. Theirs not a quark of smoke to be had man! I’m more pisset off than Martin Baker.


Honest people. Theirs not a sub atomic particle of gange to be had.
Bastards!

Oh, and I’ve just spotted it: it doesn’t say lie down, it says line down.

[aggle-rithm]

Awe FFS.
I only post here when I’m either drunk/belligerent/or stoned.
Now will you ****wits say something proper or STFU!
Theirs not a molecule of gange to be had around here at the moment, and I’m totally pisst off.

I do have sensible things to say, but not yet, you aren’t ready. No honest! I do have something sensible to say; but believe me there is not an atom of smoke to be had round here man.
And why has a popup doings just popped up that says, “lie down”. We should be told.

Best regards.

I’ve interrogated each and every wastrel from hubcap thieves to politicians to knicker line thieves, grand larsonests, arsonists, petty larsonests, benefit cheats, cat burglers, telly license evaders,

Er, that’s enough criminal for now (ed)

And theirs nowt to be had. Theirs not a quark of smoke to be had man! I’m more pisset off than Martin Baker.


Honest people. Theirs not a sub atomic particle of gange to be had.
Bastards!

Oh, and I’ve just spotted it: it doesn’t say lie down, it says line down.

<Slowly backs away, smiling politely>

[RandFan]

Awe FFS.
I only post here when I’m either drunk/belligerent/or stoned.
Now will you ****wits say something proper or STFU!
Theirs not a molecule of gange to be had around here at the moment, and I’m totally pisst off.

I do have sensible things to say, but not yet, you aren’t ready. No honest! I do have something sensible to say; but believe me there is not an atom of smoke to be had round here man.
And why has a popup doings just popped up that says, “lie down”. We should be told.

Best regards.

I’ve interrogated each and every wastrel from hubcap thieves to politicians to knicker line thieves, grand larsonests, arsonists, petty larsonests, benefit cheats, cat burglers, telly license evaders,

Er, that’s enough criminal for now (ed)

And theirs nowt to be had. Theirs not a quark of smoke to be had man! I’m more pisset off than Martin Baker.


Honest people. Theirs not a sub atomic particle of gange to be had.
Bastards!

Oh, and I’ve just spotted it: it doesn’t say lie down, it says line down.Friends don't let friends post wasted. :D

[NoZed Avenger]

Friends don't let friends post wasted. :D


Oh, carp. I thought the rule was "point, laugh, and publicize."

NOW you tell me.

[chipmunk stew]

Now will you ****wits say something proper or STFU!Don't worry, it will all make sense once you hit that bong. All the intricate interconnections and stunning revelations in this thread will rise up from the fog of your everyday thought patterns, and the truth will emerge as crystal clear insight.

[delphi_ote]

Awe FFS.
I only post here when I’m either drunk/belligerent/or stoned.
Now will you ****wits say something proper or STFU!
Theirs not a molecule of gange to be had around here at the moment, and I’m totally pisst off.

I do have sensible things to say, but not yet, you aren’t ready. No honest! I do have something sensible to say; but believe me there is not an atom of smoke to be had round here man.
And why has a popup doings just popped up that says, “lie down”. We should be told.

Best regards.

I’ve interrogated each and every wastrel from hubcap thieves to politicians to knicker line thieves, grand larsonests, arsonists, petty larsonests, benefit cheats, cat burglers, telly license evaders,

Er, that’s enough criminal for now (ed)

And theirs nowt to be had. Theirs not a quark of smoke to be had man! I’m more pisset off than Martin Baker.


Honest people. Theirs not a sub atomic particle of gange to be had.
Bastards!

Oh, and I’ve just spotted it: it doesn’t say lie down, it says line down.
Uh... and this post was made when you weren't stoned?

[Ducky]

Awe FFS.
I only post here when I’m either drunk/belligerent/or stoned.
Now will you ****wits say something proper or STFU!
Theirs not a molecule of gange to be had around here at the moment, and I’m totally pisst off.

I do have sensible things to say, but not yet, you aren’t ready. No honest! I do have something sensible to say; but believe me there is not an atom of smoke to be had round here man.
And why has a popup doings just popped up that says, “lie down”. We should be told.

Best regards.

I’ve interrogated each and every wastrel from hubcap thieves to politicians to knicker line thieves, grand larsonests, arsonists, petty larsonests, benefit cheats, cat burglers, telly license evaders,

Er, that’s enough criminal for now (ed)

And theirs nowt to be had. Theirs not a quark of smoke to be had man! I’m more pisset off than Martin Baker.


Honest people. Theirs not a sub atomic particle of gange to be had.
Bastards!

Oh, and I’ve just spotted it: it doesn’t say lie down, it says line down.


How many beers did it take to have the confidence in Loose Change to post this, ace?

When you have to drink to believe the hype....


...well you can figure the rest out when you sober up.

Good night, and good luck there sparky.

[delphi_ote]

How many beers did it take to have the confidence in Loose Change to post this, ace?

When you have to drink to believe the hype....


...well you can figure the rest out when you sober up.

Good night, and good luck there sparky.
Beers?
Theirs not a molecule of gange to be had around here at the moment, and I’m totally pisst off.
Theirs not a quark of smoke to be had man!
Theirs not a sub atomic particle of gange to be had.

[Axiom_Blade]

All these types of folks [folks such as MarkyX and Gravy] are being "clocked" and I would expect them to be properly scrutinised when 9/11 Truth finally comes out.

This is not saying it's unhealthy to be sceptical, asking questions and demanding answers. Just the blatant anti 9/11 truth propagandists


Ah, yes. The importance of anonymity and security on the Internet.
Especially when dealing with extremists.

[ktesibios]

Don't worry, it will all make sense once you hit that bong. All the intricate interconnections and stunning revelations in this thread will rise up from the fog of your everyday thought patterns, and the truth will emerge as crystal clear insight.


Hmm, let's see...

Pfffft...blub blub blub gurgle gurgle tfffp...

*cough* HACK ACK wheeze ACK ACK ACK wheeze...

wheeze gasp gasp...

Nope. Still doesn't make sense. And now I'm all hungry.

[sleahead]

Posted by GGG on LC


Really people enough already. Flight 93 crashed into a field in PA. It

happened. People saw it happen. Debris was recovered. It was real.

A good friend of mine was in "The Pit" - the large hole caused by the plane. He is not a member of any Federal Gov't agency. He isn't in on any conspiracy. He's not prone to hyperbole. And he couldn't keep a secret to save his life.

I recently asked him "Was there any debris in the pit?". His response "F***in' A! There was $hit everywhere." He explained how they excavated the pit for debris. They take a scoop of dirt with a backhoe, pick it up and dump in about the same place they picked it from. Big pieces of debris uncovered by moving the dirt were collected. The pile of dirt was picked up again, moved to a processing area where it was sifted twice. He tells the story in painful detail and relates stories he heard while at site the same way.

It happened. You will have to find a way to come to grip with that fact and move on to some other aspect of the 911 conspiracy.


Reply by LeMotJuste(my emphasis)

"To discuss this is painful", "the truth hurts"...these are all statements that
have nothing to do with science.

Now I haven't seen ONE credible piece of evidence that a Boeing
actually crashed there...if they had just let a Boeing crash, it might
have been a little more convincing - but they didn't.

I owe it to my intellect to question what really happened and sofar it's telling me:
There was no "flight 93!" and no Boeing "crashed" in that hole.

Something else created that hole, but certainly not a Boeing 757!

These Loosers are just hilarious.

Gravy, "clocked" means noticed or taken note of. The insinuation is that when "Truthers" gain power, the likes of you will be dealt with. I see you in a show trial for crimes against the "Truth".

[delphi_ote]

Gravy, "clocked" means noticed or taken note of. The insinuation is that when "Truthers" gain power, the likes of you will be dealt with. I see you in a show trial for crimes against the "Truth".
In other words, it's a vague threat by a bunch of lunatic community college drop-outs living in their parents' basements about the consequences of your ridicule once they've wrested control from a government they perceive to be a brutal totalitarian regime. If they ever put down the bowl of Captain Crunch long enough to change out of their pajamas, you might actually have something to fear.

ETA The more posts I read, the more it seems to me that about half the posters over there are projecting an overprotective relationship with their parents onto this government conspiracy.

[bob_kark]

Why, bob! You didn't get kicked out of Ninja school, did you ??

Or did you just get behind on sock-counting ????

87,345,095... 87,345,096... 87,345,097... Someone's gotta work around here. Now, where was I? Uhm... Bastage!! 1... 2... 3...

[delphi_ote]

87,345,095... 87,345,096... 87,345,097... Someone's gotta work around here. Now, where was I? Uhm... Bastage!! 1... 2... 3...
Nice that you're back on the job, 43. We're going to need someone to sneak out and cut the lawn at 3267 West Filmore Street in Jacksonville 1/4" too short.

The Globalist mission is currently best served by my being a black ninja. I will return to my polished desk and cigars soon.

[Apollyon]

In other words, it's a vague threat by a bunch of lunatic community college drop-outs living in their parents' basements about the consequences of your ridicule once they've wrested control from a government they perceive to be a brutal totalitarian regime.
You really think they went to Community College, even for a short while?

You give them far more benefit of the doubt that I, kind sir.

[hellaeon]

Im at the depression stage again when after being to close to the exposure of 'their' theories I feel sad about humanity and where we are going.

Uhhhhh. Just crazy attention seeking A.D.D stuff.

Gravy, none of those guys have even remotely challenged you have they?

[Apollyon]

hellaeon,

It gets even worse. (Or better if you're in for a good belly laugh.)

via SLC:

http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/2006/04/wings-break-off.html

If I were an engineer, I'm sure I could find an equation that could describe this phenomenon.

I canNOT stop laughing.

[Regnad Kcin]

I am unfamiliar with that particular theory, but yes, if you include the term "remote detonation." There is reason to believe that perhaps hundereds of Boeing 737s have been modified in this fashion, and are currently in circulation.Pray tell, what is this "reason?"

Hundreds, eh? Then it should be easy as breathing to expose. I won't hold my breath waiting, however.

[TjW]

Obviously, these are the ones also modified to dispense the chemtrails. Use your head, man. If anyone ever discovers the chemtrail dispensers, the airplane can "accidently" explode.
The only thing I don't understand is how, with all the additional weight of the modifications, they still get off the runway with a full passenger cabin.
Maybe they use the anti-gravity units from the crashed spacecraft in Area 51.

[Gravy]

Gravy, none of those guys have even remotely challenged you have they?
No. My goal in challenging them is not to "win" an argument, but to get them to examine their views. There seems to be extreme tunnel-vision going on over there. They fixate on one small thing and think they're on to something, all the while forgetting that their scrap of hypothesis makes no sense when put in context. I'm trying to get them riled up so they'll dig through all the claims in "Loose Change" in order to find one that's supportable. I imagine they must get a sinking feeling when they realize that none of the claims are supportable when all the evidence is on the table, not just scraps. Or maybe they just hit the bong again.

[mrfreeze]

In other words, it's a vague threat by a bunch of lunatic community college drop-outs living in their parents' basements

As a community college dropout currently living in his parents basement (ok actually I ran out of money to pay after finding out I hated computer science a year into a comp sci degree at an expensive university) I resent being lumped in with these lunatics.

[Sultanist]

Please help me. I'm in a "Loose Change" thread on another message board.
A poster raised the issue of the stock market activity surrounding 9-11.
He was asked by a subsequent poster to supply credible sources. And then he posted this reply (followed by my post which will explain why I'm requesting your help).
Can anyone rebut this?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7815042&&#post7815042

[Kent1]

Please help me. I'm in a "Loose Change" thread on another message board.
A poster raised the issue of the stock market activity surrounding 9-11.
He was asked by a subsequent poster to supply credible sources. And then he posted this reply (followed by my post which will explain why I'm requesting your help).
Can anyone rebut this?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7815042&&#post7815042

There are a few different stories and articles which deal with these put options. 9/11 myths is a good start.

http://www.911myths.com/html/put_options.html
I would also recommend this article
http://www.nationalreview.com/rose/rose200407260700.asp

Best Scott

[Axiom_Blade]

There's a good story over at Snopes.com about that. (It's the first result after you search for "9/11 stocks" no quotes)

Regardless, strange activity in the stock market is proof of...strange activity in the stock market. You could let him have that, he still has nothing.

[MikeW]

The point about the stock market activity is that the original stories made claims of potential fraud across the world. There were investigations outside of the US, though (Holland I think, the UK, Germany, maybe more) and no-one, anywhere, came up with any indication of inside knowledge. You might get away with suggesting Bush could influence the results of an enquiry in the US, but Germany? I don't think so.

Also, as I point out on 911myths (it's my site, I admit it!), there were clear reasons for the airline put options, especially AMR. I'm always staggered that the "inside job" people never mention that the (trading) day before the American Airlines put options were bought, they'd made a big profit warning for the rest of the year, making the shares an obvious short.

[Dragon]

hellaeon,

It gets even worse. (Or better if you're in for a good belly laugh.)

via SLC:

http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/2006/04/wings-break-off.html



I canNOT stop laughing.Un-freaking-believable! Now, I don't remember exactly when we did kinetic energy at school, but it was before I was 15. So how old (or just dumb) is "Spooked" if he thinks that pushing one wooden model into another gives the remotest simulation of the actual crash at 400+mph?

[Orphia Nay]

The point about the stock market activity is that the original stories made claims of potential fraud across the world. There were investigations outside of the US, though (Holland I think, the UK, Germany, maybe more) and no-one, anywhere, came up with any indication of inside knowledge. You might get away with suggesting Bush could influence the results of an enquiry in the US, but Germany? I don't think so.

Also, as I point out on 911myths (it's my site, I admit it!), there were clear reasons for the airline put options, especially AMR. I'm always staggered that the "inside job" people never mention that the (trading) day before the American Airlines put options were bought, they'd made a big profit warning for the rest of the year, making the shares an obvious short.

Welcome to the forum, MikeW! Kudos and thanks to you for your great site. I'm very glad you could join us.

I see you joined in May. Have you been reading the forums much, and how did you hear/read about them?

I bet you've got a few stories about CTists we could relate to. ;)

Again, welcome and thanks.

[XXX]

Well, right off the bat look at the dates on most of these articles! September 19th, 2001...September 20th, 2001...most of these are less than a few weeks after the attacks. There HAVE been investigations since then, ya know!

So let's look at the ones that are actually more than a few weeks after 9/11...

Bruce Blythe and Judy Mathewson, "Regulators Seek Evidence of Possible Terrorist Insider Trades," Bloomberg News, December 28, 2002. "Bloomberg's News Archive has been discontinued." http://quote.bloomberg.com/newsarchive/

Can't look into this one...discontinued.

David De Rosa, "The Icing on the Cake May Be the Suspect Puts," Bloomber News, December 28, 2002. ("Bloomberg's News Archive has been discontinued" http://quote.bloomberg.com/newsarchive/

Can't look into this one...discontinued.

Kyle F. Hence, "Massive pre-attack 'insider trading' offer authorities hottest trail to accomplices, Part II: Billions in Pre-911 Insider Trading Profits Leaves a Hot Trail: How Bush Administration Naysayers May Have Let it go Cold," The Centre for Research on Globalization, April 21, 2002, http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/HEN204B.html

Ah..."global research"...a solid source (chukle). From their "about us" page..."Our website was established on the 9th of September 2001, two days before the tragic events of September 11. Barely a few days later, Global Research had become a major news source on the New World Order and Washington's "war on terrorism". Nice unbiased source there. Even they call themselves an "alternative" news source (also on their about us page.) They'll sell you such wonderful books as "Celsius 9/11 : World Takeover and the War of Terror". This isn't a news site, it's an agenda driven site right there with prison planet and rense.

But let's take a look anyways. They say BILLIONS, not millions were made off with. Proof? "According to Phil Erlanger, a former Senior Technical Analyst with Fidelity , and founder of a Florida firm that tracks short selling and options trading, insiders made off with billions (not mere millions) in profits by betting on the fall of stocks they knew would tumble in the aftermath of the WTC and Pentagon attacks." Here's a link to his site, http://www.erlangersqueezeplay.com/page/esp/
So take a look at it and give him what weight you will. Perhaps someone can email him and ask if this really is his stance today, that billions were made off insider 9/11 trading, and ask him for his proof.

What else? "Andreas von Bulow, a former member of the German Parliament, once responsible for the oversight of the German secret services, estimated that profits by insider traders were $15 billion." Where did he get this estimate, and when was it made? I'd like to see some proof behind that figure as well. Just which stocks did these people believe would fall due to 9/11 and why? What stocks did they lump in other than the airliners, and did they investigate to see how much of the trading was legit? Keep in mind that overall the entire travel industry was being shorted prior to 9/11...this wasn't necessarily "foreknowledge"

The "article" then goes on to reference....(drum roll please)...more news articles from September 20th, 2001! Why can't these insider trading people get around that date? The article then mention the UAL and AMR put options (which have been thoroughly covered by investigations. Plus, these guys somehow forgot to mention Boeing too, a glaring ommision on their part.). And how about this line to show what they believe? "However, a case could be made that the focus on Enron has diverted attention away from a matter of far greater national security. The insiders, possibly the masterminds behind the suicide attacks, have walked away with huge profits for their sophisticated pre-attack trading; estimated by some to be in the billions of dollars. More to the point, they are now planning and financing their next attack with these 9-11 takings, as yet unmolested by a genuinely aggressive U.S. effort to shut them down." How nice to have already come to your conclusions.

Overall, this article is unconvincing, lacking proof, outdated, and from a biased source. Read it, and take it for what it's worth. Moving on...

Howard Gleckman, "A New Twist in Enron's Can of Worms," Business Week, January 17, 2002, http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily...020117_0563.htm

AND

Patrick McGeehan, "Enron's Deals Were Marketed to Companies by Wall Street," New York Times, February 14, 2002, http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/14/b...s/14TRU.S..html

OK, these are about Enron, I thought we were talking about 9/11 insider trading? I read the first one, not a thing in there about 9/11 insider trading. Didn't read the second, as I'm not a NY Times member, but probably more of the same. This isn't on topic at all.

"Betting on Terror: An Explosive Idea." Business Week, August 8, 2003

No link given, but no trouble in hunting this down.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/aug2003/nf2003088_7833_db045.htm

Another off-topic article. This one is about the Pentagon's horrible idea to allow people to bet on future acts of terror, and use the results as a predictor of future terrost acts. No info whatsoever on any 9/11 insider trading here!

Then at the end he links to pieces from well known 9/11 conspiracy advicates David Ray Griffin and Michael Ruppert (Solid sources...LOL! And Griffin only briefly mentions possible insider trading in this piece anyways, and it's more of an accusation than anything else, with no proof other than a very weak connection.) and the last link is to a 9/11 timeline from an open content site where anyone (who becomes a free member) can submit and edit the content. Not a very strong source here either.

Overall, almost all of these are outdated, some are off topic, and the one that I did find that wasn't either one of those still had outdated info on it and came from a very biased source. This large list of links looks impressive, until you really get into them. You'll have to do much better than this.

EDIT: I missed this one..."Mechanics of Possible Bin Laden Insider Trading Scam," Herzliyya International Policy Institute for Counter Terrorism (ICT), September 22, 2001. Cf. Michael C. Ruppert, "The Case for Bush Administration Advance Knowledge of 9/11 Attacks," From the Wilderness, Aoril 22, 2002. Posted at Centre for Research on Globalization http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP204A.html"

Also a Michael Rupport piece (see my above description of him, this is not a news source). And it also contains some of the same claims and outdated info as the other "article" on here that also came from from "Global Research", which I address above.

[XXX]

(edited Piece Above)

And if you wouldn't mind, post this response to cyberbri's post of

RW,

If you were really being open-minded, your first reaction wouldn't be "how do I rebut (=refute or disprove) this?"

Looking at a claim and thinking about how it can be refuted isn't a sign of not being open minded. If someone tells me that the moon is made of green cheese and I accept that claim without thinking about how it can be rebuted, that doesn't make me open minded, that makes me an idiot. It's just an extension of scientific method, you make a claim (or hypothisis) and then prove or disprove it. If I get a 9/11 claim throw at me, I first look to see if it can be refuted myself. If it can't then I know that I might really have something.

Nothing wrong at all with first looking to refute or disprove something.

[MikeW]

Welcome to the forum, MikeW!

Thanks Orphia!

Actually I've been monitoring the forums for a while, since someone emailed me to say they'd heard about the site through a post here. So I've been following 9/11 developments with interest, as well as looking around elsewhere (I've also enjoyed Randi's work for some time, have a couple of his books -- Flim Flam, the Nostradmus one).

I might have joined earlier, if I hadn't generally got tired of 9/11 discussions on forums. Which is probably the part you can relate to. I started off neutral, looking into someone's conspiracy claims in a thread and finding they weren't true, then posting a reply. Naively I actually thought they'd be interested to hear what I had to say... So I was surprised when they ignored my points, moved on to something else, never said they were wrong at all.

I pointlessly persevered, finding problems in the new "evidence", too. Did they care? No, now I just got abuse for being a Bush-loving neocon Zionist (or whatever, depending on who I was talking to).

Eventually it finally sank in that most of these people weren't looking for the truth, because they thought they knew it already, and everything was interpreted through those "inside job"-tinted glasses. So I gave up the forums, & made 911myths.com instead, just to point out how incompetent/ dishonest much of this so-called evidence really was.

I've mostly left the forums alone ever since, which seemed the right thing to do: I can reach way more people on the site, than by making a post anywhere else. But then, on the other hand, y'all have come up with plenty of new arguments between you, so if I am occasionally going to post somewhere then this seems a good place to start... And so here I am!

[delphi_ote]

If I were an engineer, I'm sure I could find an equation that could describe this phenomenon.
I am an engineer, so I'll help the guy out.

1+1=3

[delphi_ote]

As a community college dropout currently living in his parents basement (ok actually I ran out of money to pay after finding out I hated computer science a year into a comp sci degree at an expensive university) I resent being lumped in with these lunatics.
My point was their delusions of grandeur. As you're not making threats about what you'll do to people once you've overthrown the tyrannical U.S. government, consider yourself un-lumped.

[Ducky]

I am an engineer, so I'll help the guy out.

1+1=3



You are not an engineer. You don't drive a train you jerk.


The lack of honesty in this forum is enough to convince me Dylan Avery had it right all along.






























:dl:

Sorry, I *almost* kept a stright face through that.

[hellaeon]

Well I must say to those who have worked towards the exposure of these tools its working. I was able to really put to rest someones doubts about the pentagon and a plane being there. In the end this guy who is susceptible to believing some silly things was suprised by the actual facts that are easily available for him to see. The debree question etc was asked and all it took was some simple explanations and then the realisation of what he was wasn't factoring into his thinking (witnesses, passenger DNA, photos that DO exist, plane speed V concrete reinforced walls etc)

Thankyou sanity.

Edit: Even better was I was able to explain to him how the towers fell, the reports of explosions in a large office fire and how the steel would buckle and weaken. It was cool. Just seeing his mind click into the logical and simple explanation. Able to talk about CD's and how they actually do work as opposed to the CD theory about 9/11.

[NobbyNobbs]

DJLegacy sure talked tough. He has all sorts of nasty things to say about me on the LC forum. But look how he slunk away with his tail between his legs when I challenged him. It's your turn to show that you're not a coward, and that you believe in your cause. Talk is cheap, LondonEye. I care about the facts of 9/11. Do you?

The rules are simple. Meet me here:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58104

Pick any number of subjects that you feel "Loose Change" gets right and I get wrong, and we'll see who's pushing the "propaganda." Don't worry about these mean JREFers ganging up on you. This is just between us.

You're not all talk like the rest of your clan, are you? You can find at least one thing that Dylan Avery got right, can't you?


Oh boy, a fight! This'll be fun. I forget, though...are we the Sharks or the Jets?


I hope I remembered to bring my dancing shoes.....



Now that I think about it, there's an approrpiate quote that perfectly describes the CTers... "I'm depraved on account I'm deprived."

[Sultanist]

You're of course aware that whenever an aspect of the big "theory" is debunked, the "theorists" immediately conclude that it must have been "disinformation" disseminated by the "conspirators" themselves to discredit the "theorists".

Well last night I discovered one CT'er who who takes this to it's ultimate conclusion.
His contention, and I kid you not, is that the whole durn theory is "disinformation".
His nom de plume is "jack ass" and here's what he has to say about "Loose Change"...

http://saltypig.com/blog/2006/05/loose-change-embarrassment-to-911.htm

[Gravy]

...I pointlessly persevered, finding problems in the new "evidence", too. Did they care? No, now I just got abuse for being a Bush-loving neocon Zionist (or whatever, depending on who I was talking to).!
Not pointlessly, Mike, since that perseverence led to you constructing your great site, which has been priceless, hyperbole-free resource for thousands of people. I salute you!

[Gravy]

Awe FFS.
I only post here when I’m either drunk/belligerent/or stoned.
Now will you ****wits say something proper or STFU!
Theirs not a molecule of gange to be had around here at the moment, and I’m totally pisst off.
The first step is admitting you have a problem...http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1375163&postcount=1

[dubfan]

You're of course aware that whenever an aspect of the big "theory" is debunked, the "theorists" immediately conclude that it must have been "disinformation" disseminated by the "conspirators" themselves to discredit the "theorists".

Well last night I discovered one CT'er who who takes this to it's ultimate conclusion.
His contention, and I kid you not, is that the whole durn theory is "disinformation".
His nom de plume is "jack ass" and here's what he has to say about "Loose Change"...

http://saltypig.com/blog/2006/05/loose-change-embarrassment-to-911.htm

Yes, there has been a noticeable walkback from Loose Change lately, even among the Loosers. The spin is "well, everybody knows there are errors in Loose Change...even Dylan admits that". Loose Change is now supposed to be something that just encourages you to "start asking questions". Even Roxdog, in his most recent posts, has been backing away from it.

The reaction by other CTs is a little more extreme, though, and some of them (like the guy you link to) are obviously not afraid of being more direct.

[Gravy]

Oh boy, a fight! This'll be fun. I forget, though...are we the Sharks or the Jets?
I hope I remembered to bring my dancing shoes.....
Now that I think about it, there's an approrpiate quote that perfectly describes the CTers... "I'm depraved on account I'm deprived."
Sharks. Our women are hotter.

[scissorhands]

Hi folks,
I was banned from LC a while back,for no real reason, I thought Id have another sortee but cant even browse it.Ive deleted the cookie but that seems to make no difference.
Are they banning by ip?

[MikeW]

Hi folks,
I was banned from LC a while back,for no real reason, I thought Id have another sortee but cant even browse it.Ive deleted the cookie but that seems to make no difference.
Are they banning by ip?
You can get around IP banning by using an anonymous proxy. The Cloak (www dot the-cloak dot com) is effective enough, although they ration it to one session a day, so try to get all your forum browsing done in one go.

[chipmunk stew]

Daring patriot sticks it to the Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB8rXgBC8Vc

9/11 was an inside job!!! 9/11 was an inside job!!! 9/11 was an inside job!!!
Can't you just see this guy in 40 years--gray beard, disheveled hair, smelly trenchcoat--hobbling along a city street, shouting to anyone who will listen:

9/11 was an inside job!!! 9/11 was an inside job!!! 9/11 was an inside job!!!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Daring patriot sticks it to the Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB8rXgBC8Vc


Can't you just see this guy in 40 years--gray beard, disheveled hair, smelly trenchcoat--hobbling along a city street, shouting to anyone who will listen:

Chucksheen had posted, linking to his video documentary claptrap, so I responded.

[chipmunk stew]

Damn it, Arkan! I wish I'd thought of using a Snake Eyes avatar. I'm jealous.

[chipmunk stew]

Daring patriot sticks it to the Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB8rXgBC8Vc

Can't you just see this guy in 40 years--gray beard, disheveled hair, smelly trenchcoat--hobbling along a city street, shouting to anyone who will listen:
After reading this, it seems all the more likely:


You don't see the big picture yet, my friend. You see, I'm working on a plan so large, and so complex, that you may not be able to understand it. Ya see, I'm doing more than complaining in a forum. I'm pushing the envelope as far as it will go....You have no idea how many people i've pointed in the right direction....I'm going to get the world's attention...in a peaceful, yet demanding manor. Call me an idiot, thats fine. You have no idea what the Lord has commanded me to do. I'm an Agent of the Lord....and I see things crystal clear. I pray you come to also.
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6035&view=findpost&p=5195188

edit: a great response:

Your large and complex plan somehow involves running back and forth while traffic is coming at you screaming something about 9/11? Please, show me the big picture and how this ties in.

Actually, don't bother. You completely lost all credibility with me when you called yourself an Agent of the Lord. Bush claims to be the same. So do the Jihadists. Hell, everyone seems to nowadays. So are you all working for the same God, or are you the only one that he tells to go running back and forth across the street?

I know he works in mysterious ways, but...erm, this is ridiculous.

[dubfan]

After reading this, it seems all the more likely:


http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6035&view=findpost&p=5195188

And this, ladies & gentlemen, is how Lee Harvey Oswalds are made.

[rwguinn]

You are not an engineer. You don't drive a train you jerk.


The lack of honesty in this forum is enough to convince me Dylan Avery had it right all along.

:dl:

Sorry, I *almost* kept a stright face through that.

Does an "N" gage layout in the garage count?
I analyze airpane structure for a living, too!

[bob_kark]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6093&st=0&#entry5250280

I know, I know, but I just had to ask:


i'm about as open minded as they come. but if you're going to present me with your belief. at least have some sort of evidence to support it. and some person holding a political position saying its so is not evidence.

honestly i wish i was so lucky to believe whatever the government and the powers that be tell me. really i do. cuz i'd be a hell of a lot happier. being burdened with the truth isnt something one should brag about. its in now way fun to know that something is going on while most everyone around you laughs and says you're crazy.

but as its been said before, it doesnt matter what you believe. its going to happen. the world will fall to its knees and it will not be because of some mystical occurance because of a prophecy. if anything its a self fulfilling prophecy.

when debating issues such as this, why take it personal? you have your beliefs and if someone says otherwise you act as if they punched you in the face. why? doesnt make sense to me. and i dont know about the rest of the people here, but i'm really not here to make anyone believe anything. i'm a part of this movement because i've known it to be true since before i saw the movie. i simply wanna get the info out there to everyone. some will believe it, some wont. i dont care, thats not my concern. its like that saying .. you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

i have sum crazy ass theories about a lotta different things. most dont take it seriously .. but i dont care, i have my reasons. its a shame that you felt the need to leave just because some people got under your skin. but anywayz ... good luck to ya

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit confused. You're as open minded as they come and your avatar is a picture of a swastika? I'm trying to wrap my brain around how it is possible to be a Neo-Nazi and open minded. Could you enlighten me?

[Kiwiwriter]

In other words, it's a vague threat by a bunch of lunatic community college drop-outs living in their parents' basements about the consequences of your ridicule once they've wrested control from a government they perceive to be a brutal totalitarian regime. If they ever put down the bowl of Captain Crunch long enough to change out of their pajamas, you might actually have something to fear.

ETA The more posts I read, the more it seems to me that about half the posters over there are projecting an overprotective relationship with their parents onto this government conspiracy.

When I read this, I was immediately reminded of the various Marxist parties of the 1930s (and today), and an incident described in Murray Bendiner's "Just Around the Corner: A Highly Selective History of the 30s."

He had a chapter called: "Politics of the Absurd," about the left-wing moements of the period, which highlighted how they fought more amongst themselves than against capitalism. They accused each other of being deviationists or revanchists or revisionists from the assorted party lines: Leninism, Trotskyism, Stalinism.

Bendiner's favorite line was when one group of 50 or so neo-Trotskyists split up with 100 or so other neo-Trotskyists, and one of them stood up and grimly shook his fist at a guy named Schachtman, saying, "Very well, Comrade Shachtman, we shall seize power without you!"

Another pair, Mr. and Mrs. Field, set up their little outfit, which got called the "Fieldites," and when they had a falling out with their group, found picketers in front of their house, carrying signs that read, "Mr. and Mrs. Field are no longer Fieldites."

This kind of stuff came out of massive arguments over jargon-ridden dialectic and how to apply it to what was really going on in America and the world. These debates consumed vast amounts of energy and ink in lengthy articles in their newspapers and magazines, but had no connection to reality, which rolled right along.

This is going to be the same thing in some ways...people who are completely irrelevant in the first place, wrapping themselves in mantels of immense power and importance, to cover up their utter lack of power and importance. Having been (for a while) the guy in the parents' basement (actually the attic for me), I can tell you, that life is hell. You create a vast sense of self-importance to cover for your lack of importance.

[60hzxtl]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6093&st=0&#entry5250280

I know, I know, but I just had to ask:


Bob same page over there:

"Peace.

I wish I knew if he has seen http://www.WKJO.com. I'm waiting for the 1st skeptic of the Who Killed John O'Neil film. "


The problem is that most of these "films" are unwatchable.

[bob_kark]

Bob same page over there:

Peace.

I wish I knew if he has seen http://www.WKJO.com. I'm waiting for the 1st skeptic of the Who Killed John O'Neil film.

The problem is that most of these "films" are unwatchable.

Yeah, that one in particular is like watching a 6 year old attempt to emulate Eraserhead. Most of the rest of them either have the most annoying voice for narration ever created or ramble on for hours... or both. I've sat through a few of them, but it was a special brand of torture.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Damn it, Arkan! I wish I'd thought of using a Snake Eyes avatar. I'm jealous.

Yeah, except it took about 45 minutes of googling to find a decent one to use.

[Kiwiwriter]

Yes, there has been a noticeable walkback from Loose Change lately, even among the Loosers. The spin is "well, everybody knows there are errors in Loose Change...even Dylan admits that". Loose Change is now supposed to be something that just encourages you to "start asking questions". Even Roxdog, in his most recent posts, has been backing away from it.

The reaction by other CTs is a little more extreme, though, and some of them (like the guy you link to) are obviously not afraid of being more direct.

...Eventually, reality smacksyou in the teeth. Now these fellas, confronted with incontrovertible evidence against them, start backing away and tapdancing around their original claims.

I've seen it with other conspiracy nutters...you can tell when they admit, buried in their peroration, that they are "engaging in dangerous speculation." The other one is where they try to wave off their own failures and errors by saying, "Well, isn't it interesting that the authority is only now taking action to address my claims, which should have been addressed in the first place?"

Neo-Nazis are funnier, when caught...they hide behind the First Amendment. Instead of saying, "This is the utter truth, so don't stop the truth," they say, "The First Amendment gives me the right to utter whatever opinions I want, no matter how absurd or lying." One neo-Nazi tried to worm out of his more vicious statements and threats as being mere hyperbole to stir up his audience. David Irving said his was just reactions to attacks on him. And Glenn Miller said his garbage was just stuff a bunch of rednecks were saying when heavily drunk. Notice there's always an excuse...they don't really mean what they say. They want to be taken seriously, but not when they're being held accountable.

This, of course, opposed to CTers who simply dig in on their position and blame their nefarious enemies, when caught.

[Dragon]

I see that the poster Knaut has given a robust reply to LondonEye's little threat over on the Loose Change forum (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6066).

[furrod]

It IS fascinating to contemplate where these CTs might be, intellectually, in a year or two or three. Who will have dropped out of the movement in disgust,


It reminds me of my high school years. I was fascinated with the UFO phenomena and I devoured everything I could read about the subject (years before the internet). I could not understand why it was not taken more seriously among the press and general public, considering the mountain of evidence, and I grew increasingly disillusioned that I couldn’t generate more interest in the subject among the people I knew. I also recall enjoying a certain sense of secret superiority because of what I knew and most everyone else didn’t. Eventually I managed to absorb so much UFO info that I achieved what can only be described as an enlightened sense of awareness. In other words, I was buried by the BS. I ended up reevaluating everything I had read and I reluctantly had to admit to myself that the vast majority of it was bunk. It was all very disappointing, I crashed pretty hard and I ended up purging my library of most of the crap I had accumulated over the previous two - three years. I suspect that many of the 9/11 CTers are going through a similar phase in their lives.

[60hzxtl]

Yeah, that one in particular is like watching a 6 year old attempt to emulate Eraserhead. Most of the rest of them either have the most annoying voice for narration ever created or ramble on for hours... or both. I've sat through a few of them, but it was a special brand of torture.


Don't they make any short films?

Why are they always 60+ minutes, and include the Kitchen sink as part of the conspiracy?

[The_Fire]

Especially if they want it shown on tv....what's the timelimitformats in the US?

[bob_kark]

Don't they make any short films?

Why are they always 60+ minutes, and include the Kitchen sink as part of the conspiracy?

How else could they pointlessly ramble and repeat themselves?

[chipmunk stew]

It reminds me of my high school years. I was fascinated with the UFO phenomena and I devoured everything I could read about the subject (years before the internet). I could not understand why it was not taken more seriously among the press and general public, considering the mountain of evidence, and I grew increasingly disillusioned that I couldn’t generate more interest in the subject among the people I knew. I also recall enjoying a certain sense of secret superiority because of what I knew and most everyone else didn’t. Eventually I managed to absorb so much UFO info that I achieved what can only be described as an enlightened sense of awareness. In other words, I was buried by the BS. I ended up reevaluating everything I had read and I reluctantly had to admit to myself that the vast majority of it was bunk. It was all very disappointing, I crashed pretty hard and I ended up purging my library of most of the crap I had accumulated over the previous two - three years. I suspect that many of the 9/11 CTers are going through a similar phase in their lives.I had a similar devour/bloat/purge experience in high school and a few years beyond with what might be called Shamanism. It's an extremely disappointing experience, and I had a bout with depression to deal with afterwards.

The only way out of the depression triggered by my budding skepticism was a total skeptical examination of my beliefs, which at times was quite painful to do. I don't envy the CTers who are beginning to doubt. They have a rough road ahead for the near future.

[Belz...]

Nice that you're back on the job, 43. We're going to need someone to sneak out and cut the lawn at 3267 West Filmore Street in Jacksonville 1/4" too short.

How the hell do you come up with these ??

[kookbreaker]

I see that the poster Knaut has given a robust reply to LondonEye's little threrat over on the Loose Change forum (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6066).

Little cheer time.

LondonEye's comments are rather 'chilling' or at least they would be if he were any threat to anything anywhere instead of a pathetic petty tyrant of a go-nowhere webboard.

I'm glad Knaut gave him the business. He'll be banned, doubtless. No one corrects the LC moderators without being banned.

[chipmunk stew]

How the hell do you come up with these ??You don't see the big picture yet, my friend. You see, we're working on a plan so large, and so complex, that you may not be able to understand it.

[Belz...]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6093&st=0&#entry5250280

I know, I know, but I just had to ask:

Nice work, 43. That'll teach 'im.

honestly i wish i was so lucky to believe whatever the government and the powers that be tell me. really i do. cuz i'd be a hell of a lot happier. being burdened with the truth isnt something one should brag about. its in now way fun to know that something is going on while most everyone around you laughs and says you're crazy.

And yet they keep bragging about it.

Wasn't Promethius the guy who gave humanity knowledge or something ?

[60hzxtl]

Especially if they want it shown on tv....what's the timelimitformats in the US?

Lets see. . .my last Discovery piece, an "hour show" was 40 minutes real time.

44 in Europe, (they cut my favorite sequence for 4 min. more ads.)

When I'm in a good mood I call it a metric hour.

But when you give away your film - you can make it as long as fits on a DVD!

[chipmunk stew]

Little cheer time.

LondonEye's comments are rather 'chilling' or at least they would be if he were any threat to anything anywhere instead of a pathetic petty tyrant of a go-nowhere webboard.

I'm glad Knaut gave him the business. He'll be banned, doubtless. No one corrects the LC moderators without being banned.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6093&view=findpost&p=5252004
You wont be needing your account any more then I shall delete it.
good luck dude you're gonna need it http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/thumbsup.gif
"you're gonna need it"? More when we take over the country language?

[Belz...]

Yeah, except it took about 45 minutes of googling to find a decent one to use.

I don't know, man. I found this in about 3 seconds.

[Belz...]

You don't see the big picture yet, my friend. You see, we're working on a plan so large, and so complex, that you may not be able to understand it.

So large and so complex that even DELPHI doesn't understand it!!

[chipmunk stew]

So large and so complex that even DELPHI doesn't understand it!!Pure genius, isn't it?

[bob_kark]

Nice that you're back on the job, 43. We're going to need someone to sneak out and cut the lawn at 3267 West Filmore Street in Jacksonville 1/4" too short.

The Globalist mission is currently best served by my being a black ninja. I will return to my polished desk and cigars soon.

Oh, I almost forgot, mission accomplished. I also took the liberty of writing our entire conspiracy out on 50,000 different grains of rice and repackaging them as Uncle Ben's converted rice.

[Belz...]

This is going to be the same thing in some ways...people who are completely irrelevant in the first place, wrapping themselves in mantels of immense power and importance, to cover up their utter lack of power and importance. Having been (for a while) the guy in the parents' basement (actually the attic for me), I can tell you, that life is hell. You create a vast sense of self-importance to cover for your lack of importance.

I've been the guy in the basement... and I've NEVER had any illusions about my importance.

[brodski]

Nice work, 43. That'll teach 'im.



And yet they keep bragging about it.

Wasn't Promethius the guy who gave humanity knowledge or something ?
Prometheus was the son of a Titan who stole fire from the gods and gave it to men, he had his liver pecked out every day and regrown every night for his trouble. A worse fate would have been to be forced to watch Who Killed John O'Neil for eternity.
(I'm working my way through it now- my god it's bad)

[Hutch]

Wasn't Promethius the guy who gave humanity knowledge or something ?

Promethius was the Titan in Greek lore that gave the Human race Fire, which until then had been a secret of the Gods of Olympus. Zeus went all Elder-God on him and chained him to a Maountain where a giant eagle feasted on his liver every day (said liver growing back each night)

I think our modern day promethuis thinks he is giving the Human Race his own brand of fire--I think he probably should not be allowed to play with matches...

edited to add--#@$%$#%# brodski

[brodski]

edited to add--#@$%$#%# brodski

:boxedin: sorry.

[Belz...]

Prometheus was the son of a Titan who stole fire from the gods and gave it to men, he had his liver pecked out every day and regrown every night for his trouble. A worse fate would have been to be forced to watch Who Killed John O'Neil for eternity.
(I'm working my way through it now- my god it's bad)

Promethius was the Titan in Greek lore that gave the Human race Fire, which until then had been a secret of the Gods of Olympus. Zeus went all Elder-God on him and chained him to a Maountain where a giant eagle feasted on his liver every day (said liver growing back each night)

Should've gone with my first memory instead of trying to think this through. Fire it is.

[Belz...]

Oh, I almost forgot, mission accomplished. I also took the liberty of writing our entire conspiracy out on 50,000 different grains of rice and repackaging them as Uncle Ben's converted rice.

Don't you mean, "coverup" rice ?

[bob_kark]

Don't you mean, "coverup" rice ?

Actually, I meant conspiracy rice.

[kookbreaker]

Actually, I meant conspiracy rice.

Found on the shelf next to 'Conspiracy-Os'. The breakfast of paranoids!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I had a similar devour/bloat/purge experience in high school and a few years beyond with what might be called Shamanism. It's an extremely disappointing experience, and I had a bout with depression to deal with afterwards.

The only way out of the depression triggered by my budding skepticism was a total skeptical examination of my beliefs, which at times was quite painful to do. I don't envy the CTers who are beginning to doubt. They have a rough road ahead for the near future.

<AOL>
Me too!
</AOL>

[kookbreaker]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6093&view=findpost&p=5252004

"you're gonna need it"? More when we take over the country language?

Every time they make those noises, I think of these lyrics:

Look outside the window, there's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes and now she's being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun, I'd hate to blow the game
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.

Riding down the highway, yes, my back is getting stiff
Thirteen cars are piled up, they're hanging on a cliff.
Maybe we should pull them back with our towing chain
But we gotta move and we might get sued and it looks like it's gonna rain
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.

Sweating in the ghetto with the colored and the poor
The rats have joined the babies who are sleeping on the floor
Now wouldn't it be a riot if they really blew their tops?
But they got too much already and besides we got the cops
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.

Oh there's a dirty paper using sex to make a sale
The Supreme Court was so upset, they sent him off to jail.
Maybe we should help the fiend and take away his fine.
But we're busy reading Playboy and the Sunday New York Times
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Smoking marihuana is more fun than drinking beer,
But a friend of ours was captured and they gave him thirty years
Maybe we should raise our voices, ask somebody why
But demonstrations are a drag, besides we're much too high
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I don't know, man. I found this in about 3 seconds.

Well crud. What search criteria did you use?

[pgwenthold]

Actually, I meant conspiracy rice.

Condoleeza Rice?

Hmmmm....condoleeza rice....

[60hzxtl]

Every time they make those noises, I think of these lyrics:

Look outside the window, there's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes and now she's being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
t anybody

. . . .
Outside of a small circle of friends


Sadly Mr. Ochs died by his own hand, living in his sister's basment, after a long time of non sobriety.

[kookbreaker]

Sadly Mr. Ochs died by his own hand, living in his sister's basment, after a long time of non sobriety.

:( That's sad. Its especially a shame since those lyrics, despite being over 20 years old, still manage to catpure the reality of these Aeron Chair Activists.

[chipmunk stew]

If they really thought Big Brother was watching and monitoring their forum, would they post stupid sh[rule8] like this, even as a joke?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6214&view=findpost&p=5256551
$400 Million market price for a black market nuke, anyone want to start a fund http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/smoke2.gif

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

If they really thought Big Brother was watching and monitoring their forum, would they post stupid sh[rule8] like this, even as a joke?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6214&view=findpost&p=5256551

Given the content of that forum, and looking over that thread, I see no reason why it should be considered a joke. I think the BATF would be interested.

[chipmunk stew]

The sky is falling...
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6217&view=findpost&p=5256132

[brodski]

The sky is falling...
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6217&view=findpost&p=5256132
Chemtrails? is there a PCT that these guys don't buy into?

[60hzxtl]

I'll see you one:

The sky is falling...
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6217&view=findpost&p=5256132


And raise you

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6216

Where DO these kids get this stuff.

At the age of 5 I was told by an older kid that if you sprinkled salt on a birds tail you could catch him. When I repeated the to my father, he asked if I could get close enough to sprinkle salt, then I could catch him anyway.

These kids didn't have such sense at home.

So who wants to tell them that the contrails they are calling chemtrails are a function of temperature and humidity, and altitude.

[CurtC]

I was a naughty boy...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6214&view=findpost&p=5257836

[chipmunk stew]

I'll see you one:




And raise you

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6216

Where DO these kids get this stuff.

At the age of 5 I was told by an older kid that if you sprinkled salt on a birds tail you could catch him. When I repeated the to my father, he asked if I could get close enough to sprinkle salt, then I could catch him anyway.

These kids didn't have such sense at home.Holy mother of...

They're not far now. It won't literally be tin foil hats, but I won't be surprised if by the end of the summer I see people compulsively zapping themselves with some little device or something.

[Belz...]

Well crud. What search criteria did you use?

snake eyes gi joe

[Belz...]

If they really thought Big Brother was watching and monitoring their forum, would they post stupid sh[rule8] like this, even as a joke?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6214&view=findpost&p=5256551

Argh!!

Sure! I live in Canada and most Canadian doesn't have guns. Are we slaves? Not more than American. Do we have more criminals? No! Look at a even more peaceful nation: Holland: one of the lowest crime place in the world.

Guns bring violence.
Hitler also agreed that gun control works. :rolleyes:

Ah! Another Hitler analogy. Gotta lov'em.

[chipmunk stew]

I'll see you one:

And raise you

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6216

Where DO these kids get this stuff.

At the age of 5 I was told by an older kid that if you sprinkled salt on a birds tail you could catch him. When I repeated the to my father, he asked if I could get close enough to sprinkle salt, then I could catch him anyway.

These kids didn't have such sense at home.

So who wants to tell them that the contrails they are calling chemtrails are a function of temperature and humidity, and altitude.If anyone's interested in a little profiteering, you can start selling "RFID zappers" on ebay.
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2006/01/weapons_the_rfi.html

edit: For any of you Loose Change guys who may be reading--I'm joking.

[kookbreaker]

I was a naughty boy...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6214&view=findpost&p=5257836

Roxdog's little 'I meant to do that' is funnier than your initial comment.

[Sentinel]

In Aug 2000. The russian had a military deemonstration of their new skval torpedo which was being demonstrated for the chinese in the barrent sea.
there were two US Subs monitoring it, The Uss Memphis and the Uss Iowa. Supposedly because of low sea to ground in the area it was hard to move about and there was a report of a collision between the Kursk and one of the American subs. The Kursk was an Oscar class sub and the largest Cruise Missile launcher. It is believed in Russian military that when the subs collided the Kursk was about to shoot at the american sub which collided with it when the other American sub shadowing it shot it and sank it with a mark 48 DU Torpedo. The norwegian Subsid of Halliburton openeed the sub doors of the Kursk in 25 minutes when the Russians stated it couldn't be done. The dutch company Mammouts finaly got the sub up right after 9-11. The russian dept was cancled and they got another 10 billion (with a Big B) Loan. Remember how fond bush was of putin right before the attacks.

Yes, Gravy its about urban revitilization, pushing the poor and undesireble to the limits of the cities like say New Orleans and Boston with the big dig and the original plan for the WTC project in the 50s. Its white flight coming home to rest back in the cities. Just look at whats happening in Downtown Brooklyn with the preposed construction of a new stadium for the NJ Nets and all the new condos and the moving of the poor from the city housing projects.

Thats the reason the keyspan tanks were removed and that Ten alarm fire on may 2 in greenpoint for mr Gutman the firebug real estate mogul.

Its the richmans way of saying get lost to the poor.


This is just the facts.



Sentinel

[CurtC]

Where DO these kids get this stuff.
Holy cow, did you see Roxdog's post (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6216&view=findpost&p=5257437) in that thread? I don't know guns, but it looks like it could be a 50-caliber long-range rifle, and Rox says that it's a gun to shoot a small GPS microchip into someone's body from a far distance. As if GPS microchips exist, as if you could use a 50-cal to implant them, as if it would feel like a mosquito bite to the target.

As if!

[Sentinel]

Take the hight of the Keyspan Tank at aprox 400ft and the hight of the south tower at tilt point. If you do the math its aprox the same 400ft. Now if you look at the north tower and take into account the highter hit plus the 350ft antenna which was estemated to weigh about 300 hundred tons and the fact that very little of the tower actually went across west street, you'll understand the concept of controlled desent collapse thereby you decrease the hight amount of the buuilding to say the second level MER floor at around the 75th floor. Notice that when the north tower collapsed it did an acordian at the top then fell to the mer floor at 75 the did the spead out like a lotus.


Theres more but time is short, have to take mytin foil hat to the cleaners.


Sentinel

[CptColumbo]

Take the hight of the Keyspan Tank at aprox 400ft and the hight of the south tower at tilt point. If you do the math its aprox the same 400ft. Now if you look at the north tower and take into account the highter hit plus the 350ft antenna which was estemated to weigh about 300 hundred tons and the fact that very little of the tower actually went across west street, you'll understand the concept of controlled desent collapse thereby you decrease the hight amount of the buuilding to say the second level MER floor at around the 75th floor. Notice that when the north tower collapsed it did an acordian at the top then fell to the mer floor at 75 the did the spead out like a lotus.


Theres more but time is short, have to take mytin foil hat to the cleaners.


Sentinel

I know "time is short," but could you please edit to correct spelling and grammar, because this makes almost no sense.

[chipmunk stew]

Holy cow, did you see Roxdog's post (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6216&view=findpost&p=5257437) in that thread? I don't know guns, but it looks like it could be a 50-caliber long-range rifle, and Rox says that it's a gun to shoot a small GPS microchip into someone's body from a far distance. As if GPS microchips exist, as if you could use a 50-cal to implant them, as if it would feel like a mosquito bite to the target.

As if!The website for the "ID Sniper rifle":
http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/

It appears to be a hoax, con, fantasy project, school project, or in-over-their-heads young product designers' start-up company.

It reeks of illegitimacy.

[Gravy]

Take the hight of the Keyspan Tank at aprox 400ft and the hight of the south tower at tilt point. If you do the math its aprox the same 400ft. Now if you look at the north tower and take into account the highter hit plus the 350ft antenna which was estemated to weigh about 300 hundred tons and the fact that very little of the tower actually went across west street, you'll understand the concept of controlled desent collapse thereby you decrease the hight amount of the buuilding to say the second level MER floor at around the 75th floor. Notice that when the north tower collapsed it did an acordian at the top then fell to the mer floor at 75 the did the spead out like a lotus.
Theres more but time is short, have to take mytin foil hat to the cleaners.
Sentinel
As I've said, I'm aware of your nonsensical theories. Now do you want to tell us what was suspicious about the demolition of the tanks, which Keyspan wanted removed, and which was a long and public process?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Holy cow, did you see Roxdog's post (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6216&view=findpost&p=5257437) in that thread? I don't know guns, but it looks like it could be a 50-caliber long-range rifle, and Rox says that it's a gun to shoot a small GPS microchip into someone's body from a far distance. As if GPS microchips exist, as if you could use a 50-cal to implant them, as if it would feel like a mosquito bite to the target.

As if!
http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/products_en001.htm
http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/contact.htm


The Id-sniper and Empire North was conceptualized by 2 Danish journalists from Black Box Magazine, as a means of getting access to the China Police Exhibition in 2002. Their exploits are described in the first (and only) issue of the magazine, which unfortunately only is available in Denmark (if anymore).

http://beescafeamerican.tribe.net/thread/dd438114-bc2e-4451-b257-0083d5bdad33
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/779/

http://www.jakobboeskov.com/
Go to "MY DOOMSDAY WEAPON" to see how he pulled it off.

[CptColumbo]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6079

Sure, now that I'm suspended, they start talking about the Ben Chertoff/Michael Chertoff thing again.

Why would Ben Chertoff lie about something that is easily verifiable?

What makes Alex Jones and Christopher Bollyn reliable sources?
Because they tell you what you want to hear?

[chipmunk stew]

http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/products_en001.htm
http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/contact.htm

http://beescafeamerican.tribe.net/thread/dd438114-bc2e-4451-b257-0083d5bdad33
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/779/

http://www.jakobboeskov.com/
Go to "MY DOOMSDAY WEAPON" to see how he pulled it off.Beautiful! Someone with an active account (bob_kark? CurtC?) PLEASE confront Roxdog on this. The http://www.jakobboeskov.com/ site is especially good.

[azazal]

http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/products_en001.htm
http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/contact.htm

http://beescafeamerican.tribe.net/thread/dd438114-bc2e-4451-b257-0083d5bdad33
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/779/

http://www.jakobboeskov.com/
Go to "MY DOOMSDAY WEAPON" to see how he pulled it off.


Well poop, here I was gogint o spill the beans on how the gun is a fake, and you beat me to it. Oh-well, I second Chipmunk in getting the truth posted on LC and see how they react.

[ktesibios]

I'll see you one:




And raise you

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6216

Where DO these kids get this stuff.

At the age of 5 I was told by an older kid that if you sprinkled salt on a birds tail you could catch him. When I repeated the to my father, he asked if I could get close enough to sprinkle salt, then I could catch him anyway.

These kids didn't have such sense at home.

So who wants to tell them that the contrails they are calling chemtrails are a function of temperature and humidity, and altitude.

Funny what you can miss if you haven't got enough of a sense of humor to recognize a likely spoof and try a simple Google...

One of the lessons to be learned from history is that one of the raison d'etre of art is to anticipate the most clashing paradoxes of society and to exorcize, with a good dose of humour, dangerous situations for the freedom of everybody which could be presented as acceptable in the near future. Empire North is a phony company which produces non-lethal hi-tech weapons. This extremely believable fake was made by Jakob S. Boeskov, an artist from Copenhagen, who already attacked icons and multinationals in the past with striking performances. The products advertised so far are two. 'ID Sniper' is a rifle for stealthily implanting GPS microchips. The targeted victim would be both filed by the police (thanks to a photo made by the device when aimed and fired) and controlled for his entire life. 'Juju, the citizen eye' is a delation device, a sort of digital camera with an indicator of dangerousness which can be used to photograph a suspected criminal and automatically send the picture to the police. These devices, so eerily plausible, hint at a horrifying future and succeed in keeping our consciences aware of the means of manipulations and control introduced by our repressive governments.

http://www.neural.it/nnews/empirenorthe.htm

And there's plenty more at Boeskov's Web site:

http://www.backfire.dk/JB/

click the "fictionism" button.

If anyone here is registered at the Looser's forum and hasn't been banned yet, feel free to go show them that what they're swallowing whole is actually a clever piece of political art.

ETA: [rule 8] you guys are fast! That's what I get for going out for a smoke before posting...

[bob_kark]

Beautiful! Someone with an active account (bob_kark? CurtC?) PLEASE confront Roxdog on this. The http://www.jakobboeskov.com/ site is especially good.

Delivered

That is scary, good thing its a hoax.

Jacob Boescov's site

When you enter the site, check under "My Doomsday Weapon."


Basically, the idea was to come up with the most terrible weapon imaginable, and to test it in a real environment. We had three days to finish up the weapon. Our fake company, Empire North, already had a logo and a slogan (”The Logical Solution” aping the Nazi classic “The Final Solution”) but we had no weapon yet. Genius designer Von B and I worked overtime, and in two days we had the ID Sniper ready.


Kinda funny really.

[CptColumbo]

Last night I went on a chat room for CT, and every time I asked what the proof was for any given theory, the usual response was "it's common knowledge." I wrote back that George Washington being the first president of the US is common knowledge, what you are talking about is widespread rumor.

BTW it was about J. E. Hoover being a crossdresser.

I don't think one person there was above 15 years old. At least mentally.

[NobbyNobbs]

How the hell do you come up with these ??

It's not him. It comes from The Man, at Ninja Wave HQ. Ours is not to question. Ours is to follow orders.


In other areas, I don't know if this is true for anyone else, but I find that although I can understand each individual word of Sentinel's posts, as a whole they each make no sense whatsoever. Kinda like

"Blue and four simplify the book credence cabinet in the tree window."

[dubfan]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6079

Sure, now that I'm suspended, they start talking about the Ben Chertoff/Michael Chertoff thing again.

Why would Ben Chertoff lie about something that is easily verifiable?

What makes Alex Jones and Christopher Bollyn reliable sources?
Because they tell you what you want to hear?

And not only that, even if they ARE cousins (which they aren't) WHO T.F. CARES?

WTH does being cousins have to do with anything?

[Kiwiwriter]

I've been the guy in the basement... and I've NEVER had any illusions about my importance.

At least you know what the score is. I did not realize it. Fortunately, I took steps to avoid turning 45, still living in that basement.

The sad thing is...in my work with the Society for American Baseball Research, I know a few guys like that...clearly they suffer from Aspberger's.

One guy was in his 50s, still living with his mother...and needed his mother to write his $5 check for our big event. He was into tabletop card baseball, and asked me on the phone if I was, as well, and if we could play a game during a break. I politely told him I would be too busy managing the event.

I can see how folks like that, with their lack of perspective, lack of people skills, disconnection to reality, rigid thinking, and obsession with abstract subjects (baseball, Star Trek, World War II, trains) can wind up in the morass of conspiracy theory nonsense.

I'll let psychologists study that one further.

[Sentinel]

I've yet to see anything logical stated by you on the issue. So stop the name calling and act like an adult for once.



If you have CDI at the Murrah Federal Building and you have CDI at the Tanks then you have them at the WTC Collapse recovery process....


Oh, but I guess we don't remember what was stated at the Iran/Contra hearings about REX-84-Alpha the plan to suspend the constitution and Habeas Corpus?

It pretty much explains itself.


Back to my tinfoil TV, DUH


Sentinel

[brodski]

And not only that, even if they ARE cousins (which they aren't) WHO T.F. CARES?

WTH does being cousins have to do with anything?
Ah, I see you haven't subjected yourself to "who killed John O'Neil" two hours of pretentious sub-sub- art-house rambling along the liens of "6 degrees of separation" that "proves" that BCCI orchestrated 9/11 to control the drugs trade and cover up for the JFK assassination. The sole evidence is who has links with how (no matter how tenuous) and arguments from ignorance ("we can't absolutely prove the official versing, so all theories are equally valid, especially mine")
By the WKJO standard, being cousins is ABSOLUTE PROOF of a conspiracy, as is having worked at the same company as someone else tenuously "linked" with the CT, even if you never worked there at the same time.
If they can draw ANY connection between someone and the Gov, it's considered prof of a conspiracy.

[Sentinel]

Sorry

Still trying to figure this forums mail system.



You can reach me at RSQSRVS@Yahoo.com



GOD BLESS


Sentinel

[delphi_ote]

How the hell do you come up with these ??
I work for the government.

[Sentinel]

Funny that his body was located intact two days after behind stairwell-A S/T.
This in itself is suspicious.


GOD BLESS



Sentinel

[brodski]

Funny that his body was located intact two days after behind stairwell-A S/T.
This in itself is suspicious.


GOD BLESS



Sentinel
I don't find anything funny about murder, especially not on that scale.

[Sentinel]

OMG WTF !!!!




Sentinel

[Sentinel]

Meaning that he was the only one whos body was found intact after the collapse as though his body was placed there afterwards.


Sentinel

[Kiwiwriter]

I'll see you one:




And raise you

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6216

Where DO these kids get this stuff.

At the age of 5 I was told by an older kid that if you sprinkled salt on a birds tail you could catch him. When I repeated the to my father, he asked if I could get close enough to sprinkle salt, then I could catch him anyway.

These kids didn't have such sense at home.

So who wants to tell them that the contrails they are calling chemtrails are a function of temperature and humidity, and altitude.

They watch a LOT of science fiction on TV, and regard the X-Files as being more accurate than The New York Times.

[Kiwiwriter]

In Aug 2000. The russian had a military deemonstration of their new skval torpedo which was being demonstrated for the chinese in the barrent sea.
there were two US Subs monitoring it, The Uss Memphis and the Uss Iowa. Supposedly because of low sea to ground in the area it was hard to move about and there was a report of a collision between the Kursk and one of the American subs. The Kursk was an Oscar class sub and the largest Cruise Missile launcher. It is believed in Russian military that when the subs collided the Kursk was about to shoot at the american sub which collided with it when the other American sub shadowing it shot it and sank it with a mark 48 DU Torpedo. The norwegian Subsid of Halliburton openeed the sub doors of the Kursk in 25 minutes when the Russians stated it couldn't be done. The dutch company Mammouts finaly got the sub up right after 9-11. The russian dept was cancled and they got another 10 billion (with a Big B) Loan. Remember how fond bush was of putin right before the attacks.





Sentinel


I have to point out that the USS Iowa is not a submarine, but a battleship, lead vessel of her class, and is in retirement in San Francisco. It's been de-commissioned since just before the first Persian Gulf War. Your source should get his facts straight.

Memphis is a Los Angeles-class attack submarine, however, and I believe she's a Flight One Los Angeles, which means she's been decommissioned, as well.

[MikeW]

Meaning that he was the only one whos body was found intact after the collapse as though his body was placed there afterwards.
His wasn't the only body "found intact", though -- there were 293, apparently (Google for WTC "intact bodies").

[CptColumbo]

I have to point out that the USS Iowa is not a submarine, but a battleship, lead vessel of her class, and is in retirement in San Francisco. It's been de-commissioned since just before the first Persian Gulf War. Your source should get his facts straight.

Memphis is a Los Angeles-class attack submarine, however, and I believe she's a Flight One Los Angeles, which means she's been decommissioned, as well.

Actually the Memphis is still active, according to http://www.answers.com/topic/uss-memphis-ssn-691.

Iowa was mothballed in 1990, but remained in the reserve until 2001. She was stationed in Rhode Island during this time however, and is a Battleship. http://www.answers.com/topic/uss-iowa-bb-61

[Sentinel]

The imformation was retreived from both wikipedia and a documentary called Kursk: Submarine in trouble waters that was shown on the sundance channel in January of this year.


I was wrong in unit Identifaction Toledo was the second Submarine.

Correction noted




God Bless


Sentinel

[CurtC]

Nonsensicle ?
Q: What does Sentinel have for dessert?

[Belz...]

Delivered

I just love the people here.

You're all ... GODS of logic and reason.

I'll start a new pantheon, I think.

[delphi_ote]

The imformation was retreived from both wikipedia and a documentary called Kursk: Submarine in trouble waters that was shown on the sundance channel in January of this year.


I was wrong in unit Identifaction Toledo was the second Submarine.

Correction noted




God Bless


Sentinel
:dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin:
Look! It's the dancing we-don't-know-what-the-hell-you're-talking-about circles!

[Belz...]

It's not him. It comes from The Man, at Ninja Wave HQ. Ours is not to question. Ours is to follow orders.


In other areas, I don't know if this is true for anyone else, but I find that although I can understand each individual word of Sentinel's posts, as a whole they each make no sense whatsoever. Kinda like

"Blue and four simplify the book credence cabinet in the tree window."

Maybe it's globalist-code.

[Sentinel]

Why doesn't that surprise me dork




Sentinel

[Belz...]

I can see how folks like that, with their lack of perspective, lack of people skills, disconnection to reality, rigid thinking, and obsession with abstract subjects (baseball, Star Trek, World War II, trains) can wind up in the morass of conspiracy theory nonsense.

There, there. I happen to think that, apart from the REALLY far-out ones, there are no subjects not worth spending time on.

I mean, is watching baseball or any other sport any LESS nerdy than watching a particular TV show ?? To each his own, mesays.

[Belz...]

I work for the government.

Yeah but ho...I mean I... ath... Kkk$ |T8 NO CARRIER

[Belz...]

Meaning that he was the only one whos body was found intact after the collapse as though his body was placed there afterwards.


Sentinel

Argument from incredulity ?

[Belz...]

I have to point out that the USS Iowa is not a submarine, but a battleship, lead vessel of her class, and is in retirement in San Francisco. It's been de-commissioned since just before the first Persian Gulf War. Your source should get his facts straight.

Memphis is a Los Angeles-class attack submarine, however, and I believe she's a Flight One Los Angeles, which means she's been decommissioned, as well.

Let's see, now:

The Iowa:

http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/details/BB61.htm

And the Memphis:

http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/details/SSN691.htm

The Memphis appears to be still in service. The Iowa was decomissioned in 1990.

ETA: Damn you, Columbo! I'll beat you yet!

[delphi_ote]

Why doesn't that surprise me dork
It probably doesn't suprise you because you're used to people having no clue what the hell you're talking about.

Is anyone here familiar with the work of Claude Shannon, the founding father of information theory? In his seminal A Mathematical Theory of Communication, he gives an example of what he calls a "first order word approximation of English."

He produced this by choosing a word out of a novel, then randomly choosing a place where that word was used again and writing the next word. Then he searched for THAT word. So if the first word was "The" he'd find "The store" then search for "store was"... etc. until he produced a sentence. Here is one of the results:

The head and in frontal attack on an English writer that the character of this point is therefore another method for the letters that the time of who ever told the problem for an unexpected.

Sound familiar? I think Sentinel is just a probabilistic finite state machine spitting out English words at random.

[Belz...]

:dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin:
Look! It's the dancing we-don't-know-what-the-hell-you're-talking-about circles!

:dc_biggrin:

can't... look... away...

[Belz...]

Why doesn't that surprise me dork

Sentinel

Learn to use the QUOTE function, jack.

[Ducky]

OK so I was perusing the LC forum with my sleeper account (I have 5. Don't tell) and I cannot believe how close to total implosion they are. They went from nutty to outright batsh** insane to Scientology and now we're 15 steps crazier than that!

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion...

[Belz...]

OK so I was perusing the LC forum with my sleeper account (I have 5. Don't tell) and I cannot believe how close to total implosion they are. They went from nutty to outright batsh** insane to Scientology and now we're 15 steps crazier than that!

Well, it had to happen eventually. I mean, they keep adding and adding crazy and stupid stuff all the time. At one point they were bound to include stuff that was opposed to what some people consider legitimate, like Nazi stuff and such and such. Once you reach that point, collapse is inevitable.

But not controlled.

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion...

Which is more fun than watching it on fast-forward.

[Mr. Skinny]

They just started flying C-5's out of Wright-Pat, and there are chemtrails all over the sky over Dayton. Do you think the recent conversion to C-5's from the smaller C-141's is so that they could hold more chemicals on each sortie? Think about it.

On top of that, they just retired the C-141 "Hanoi Taxi" to the AF museum. Could it be they are trying to destroy the evidence that it was being used to create chemtrails?

These are questions you should think about.






Is there a Ninja Wave "government shill" avatar?