Loose Change - Part II

[WildCat]

It's no wonder why you can't see the obviousness of the us government's complicity in sept 11, joker.
It's as plain as the trunk on the giraffe...

[delphi_ote]

Mock mock mock

It's no wonder why you can't see the obviousness of the us government's complicity in sept 11, joker.
You're mocked because you've made so many claims without backing them up. If you'd back up one claim, people might start listening to you instead of laughing at you. Until then, you've already shown you don't take this day in history seriously at all. For you, it's just an exciting Dan Brown novel.

[Pardalis]

Wow bobkark that was a quick response. I doubt you even clicked on the link.

Unless you took up speed reading courses.

uhh.. Maybe that's because he's already talked about it in post #833, dumbass.

They finally have proof of the conspiracy!! Wow, you must take a look at this:

Whistleblower (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5146)





Ooooh!! Software that predicts the future?! How can you now deny that 9/11 was a conspiracy? I bet they had hoverboards and holodecks and stuff too!

ETA: Wow, that is the best intro to any podcast I've ever heard.

[Gravy]

Mock mock mock

It's no wonder why you can't see the obviousness of the us government's complicity in sept 11, joker.
As we all continue to learn more about this topic, we start to comprehend the grandiosity of the thefts and fraudulent transactions that took place under the umbrella of 9-11- specifically hundreds of billions of dollars worth of gold bricks which were surreptitiously liberated from their safety deposit vaults under the World Trade Center. Couple that with the realization of the verifiably true statement made by Donald Rumsfeld on September 10th 2001- wherein he announced that $2.3 trillion dollars in U.S. taxpayer funds had been misappropriated by Pentagon accountants and “lost”.

geggy, once again I implore you to reconsider your embarrassing and insulting behavior.

[JamesB]

I tried reading that earlier, but I gave up after 10-15 minutes. Was anyone able to find a point hidden in there somewhere?

Even his chess analogy is wrong.

[Gravy]

I tried reading that earlier, but I gave up after 10-15 minutes. Was anyone able to find a point hidden in there somewhere?

Even his chess analogy is wrong.
I think what we're supposed to glean from this blithering idiot is that the truth of a conspiracy theory is inversely proportional to the length of its preamble.

[Pardalis]

Mock mock mock

It's no wonder why you can't see the obviousness of the us government's complicity in sept 11, joker.

You want me to show you something obvious? Your 194 posts that have been shown wrong.

[bob_kark]

uhh.. Maybe that's because he's already talked about it in post #833, dumbass.

Or maybe I was the one who stole the "software that predicts the future!!"

ETA: Er, yeah, what 60hzxtl said.

[60hzxtl]

Mock mock mock

It's no wonder why you can't see the obviousness of the us government's complicity in sept 11, joker.

Don't worry your name calling is just like petroleum off a ducks back, it's just water under the dam, we're just two ships that go bump in the night.

[60hzxtl]

Or maybe I was the one who stole the "software that predicts the future!!"

ETA: Er, yeah, what 60hzxtl said.


See Bob, you knew too!

We had ADVANCED KNOWLEDGE!

[bob_kark]

See Bob, you knew too!

We had ADVANCED KNOWLEDGE!

Yeah, but I discredited myself just enough, by not remembering your previous post, to make it appear that I didn't. That's why I get paid the big socks.

[delphi_ote]

Yeah, but I discredited myself just enough, by not remembering your previous post, to make it appear that I didn't. That's why I get paid the big socks.
Yep. 43 gets a load of XLs every week.

[WildCat]

From the article (http://www.freewebs.com/abigsecret/grove.html) geggy posted:


On December 24, 2002 my apartment was burglarized, and by this time I was living with my current fiancée, in NYC, but we were spending Christmas in CT. When we returned on the 27th, everything seemed fine, and then I started to notice odd things missing; and most peculiar about the situation was that the only items that were missing, were items which were hidden, items only a professional could find… and indeed had. Once we secured the apartment, we called the police and filed a report. At the time, I had let my insurance lapse, so there was no insurance to collect; and besides, some of the items taken weren’t exactly things you list on your insurance policy, but let’s suffice to say that when someone invades your home and steals your measures of security and your research only, it sends a message that it wasn’t a normal burglary. That, and the fact that there was easily $100,000 worth of fence-able loot lying around the apartment, but the only items taken were items which pertained to my investigation of 9-11… my company laptop, my video camera (which I had with me on the morning of September 11th), my global cell phone, and all of my disaster-recovery copies of my data… well, almost all of them.
Now, as some of you may know, I do remodeling/repairs etc. to homes and apartments. Years ago a property management company sent me to an apartment to change the locks of a tenent. When I got there, I saw nothing wrong w/ the existing locks, but he was adamant that whenever he was out of the apartment people would break in, take things, and put tham back exactly where he had left them. He was certain of this! Basically, I was sent there to attempt to appease him because he kept hounding the management company about his locks. While I was changing the locks, he told me the stories of how "they" would come in and take things, how they were spying on him, how they wanted special information only he had. He then started playing me cassette tapes he had made, which detailed a great conspiracy of some sort in a rambling, pointless roundabout way very similar to the manifesto geggy linked to. All in all, it was a classic case of an untreated paranoid schizophrenic. I thought the whole incident was somewhat amusing, until a few weeks later when he was found floating in Lake Michigan - an apparent suicide.

I had nearly forgotten about that episode, until listening to that audio brought the memories flooding back, it is eerily similar! The whole pantameter of it, just eerie!

If you ask me, this man is seriously mentally ill - and the CT'ers are holding this up as their great proof and feeding his delusions. This is just really sick... :mad:

[delphi_ote]

If you ask me, this man is seriously mentally ill - and the CT'ers are holding this up as their great proof and feeding his delusions. This is just really sick... :mad:
Like I said before:
Having that many unquestioning believers together with the mentally unstable is like storing gasoline and a box of matches in a 3rd grade classroom where the teacher is on vacation.

[Gravy]

Some more highlights from "whistleblower" Richard Andrew Grove.
PLEEEEZE tell me this is a hoax! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!

Now I mention in this in passing only because it has everything to do with the Gas Prices these days, and since people are now pawning their possessions to fill their tanks, I figured I’d mention it in case you’re interested. You see, whether or not Oil is truly a fossil fuel (and therefore depleteable) or is actually abiotic (and therefore regenerative) is up for debate; however, I agree that oil is used to exert a measure of control on populations- and to that end, you may want to check out a book called the “Deep Hot Biosphere” sometime, as it explains that oil is not a fossil fuel, and not in danger of running out. But I digress…*

Hundreds of billions in fraudulent transactions took place just prior to the buildings being pulled down on 9-11- not including what I mentioned about Marsh and AIG previously- these transactions which capitalized on the destruction of fellow human beings were also in part facilitated by Marsh & McLennan. I know this because they were captured on hard-drives found in the rubble at Ground Zero… a German Company called Convar recovered the information on these drives.*

For me, it became obvious, only a few moments after the South Tower explosion, that the personnel and vehicles I was observing at Ground Zero were not there to help rescue people.*

Perhaps someone with Patriot Act Authority went to my landlord who helped them gain entry. Interestingly enough, when we were forced into exodus in 2003, the same landlord saw fit to cheat us out of our $7000 security deposit. Ironically, he admitted it to this on tape; and was knowingly defrauding us openly. Why would he take such an opportunity and kick us when we were down, after I had paid him over $100,000 in rent during my stay in New York? Possibly because he knew that due to the nature of the situation, every opportunity was being explored to financially break me, and so he was just doing his part to serve the terrorists.*

It started with American Express. Although I had a verbal agreement with them to pay in full the expenses which I had been left hanging with after an abrupt termination, my account was closed; and they called for me to pay off my card, in full, immediately.*

In August 2003, I found out that one of my clients, DynCorp was engaged in the international sex-slave trade, selling women and children in various parts of the world for the purposes of prostitution, slavery, and use in snuff films; wherein they are murdered for entertainment. Search on the “United Nations +DynCorp” and you may find that DynCorp was convicted of having sold over 200,000 women and children through this black market slave trade, and that’s only a fraction of the illicit business they’ve done over the past several years.

Al Qaeda is the shadow cast by elements of the intelligence community… “Al Qaeda” means the Base, and “Al Qaeda” takes its name from a database file wherein information on miscellaneous terrorists was filed for future classification.*

Getting back to Software companies, they literally print their own money, and if that makes you think of Bill Gates and Larry Ellison, it certainly should, as both Microsoft and Oracle were Pentagon projects turned commercial.

or one might make the connection to today’s Human Trafficking crisis, via a the front cover of the June 29 1989 Washington Times, whereby said connections to the White House and the sex-slave trade, and the Oracle of Omaha, are made clear… noting the connection to the President’s visit to Omaha on September 11th , when Buffett was holding his “last annual” golf tournament. Coincidence?

my Range Rover was repossessed

On December 17, 21, & 27, 2004 and January 12th 2005 I sent a variety of faxes, letters, and parcels to the attention of Harrison Ford, care of his publicist, Patricia McQueeney. Specifically in the 2nd package, which weighed 31 pounds and arrived in a stainless steel briefcase; there was information pertaining to a man-made disaster being created- what was to be the Tsunamis that hit Indonesia- and the contents also referred to the hundreds of thousands who would be killed, arriving just days before the disaster… my hope was to put the information into the hands of someone with a voice, and in my mind, Harrison’s pretty well known… he’s been the President, Jack Ryan, Han Solo, and Indiana Jones- in other words, people might listen to what he has to say- considering we were living in, what seemed to be, a leaderless society.*

To offer some insight into what I can’t share with you right now regarding man-made disasters… Tesla-based weapons like H.A.A.R.P. leave a unique signature which differentiates their manifestations from those which occur in Nature- and if you know what to look for, you can identify man-made earthquakes, such as the Iranian quake which occurred one year to the day before the Indonesian Tsunamis.

The Brothers Flynt replied… with a Cease and Desist from their attorneys- in response to my recommendation that Hustler cover the 9-11 phenomenon; as I naively envisioned Hustler as being a viable communication mechanism possibly still outside of the controlled mass media, and Flynt as a self-espoused First Amendment advocate, through which this information could plausibly be disseminated, specifically to our Troops.

While many interested in 9-11 have already become well-acquainted with the 2nd Edition of a film called: Loose Change, released January 16th of this year; I specifically wanted to reference the work of Louder Than Words Productions, specifically Dylan, Korey, and Jason because they are an excellent example of the power of a few young minds, and while they seem to be well informed, they’re also very wise for their age. They’re trail-blazers, and have produced what I consider the most palatable and widely consumable documentary of the 9-11 genre, because it presents the facts without fanfare… and it addresses sensitive topics with grace and professionalism.

You see, Our enemy knows that we don’t do our homework, and that in fact is the Achilles Heel of America.*

… and I would also note the photo op on the same morning, where the President is pictured with Lynne Cheney’s book America, wherein he is holding it upside down so that the U.S. Flag is represented as a distress signal.

September 11th, 1971: construction began on both the North and South Tower- that same day, Nikita Khrushchev died, and there was also the famous at Attica Prison, in New York. Noting that the Twin Towers were destroyed 30 years to the day after their birth.*

September 11th, 1995: reports surface of a remote controlled plane that was crashed into the White House.

-and We the People can no longer afford to be ignorant-

Unless you can explain how the Taliban infiltrated the secure vaults under the World Trade Center and stole hundreds of billions in bouillon, why the owners of that Bullion are keeping quiet, or how they got NORAD to conveniently schedule 6 simultaneous drills the same morning they were paying homage to the birthdays of their target buildings

You can reach me telephonically or by leaving a voicemail at 917-779-9215 or you can email me at Richard@Renaissance-Interventures.com

Canceling out these destructive waves is as straightforward as introducing a simple wave interference pattern- and it is my contention that communication is exactly the type of interference necessary… and while I’m personally still searching for the right frequency which brings it all into harmony, it’s only a matter of trial and error… and any day now, we could get lucky, and strike a chord.*

:END OF TRANSMISSION:*
(bolding mine)

ETA: got that frequency handy, Kenneth?

[delphi_ote]

Some more highlights from "whistleblower" Richard Andrew Grove.
PLEEEEZE tell me this is a hoax! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!


(bolding mine)
:END TRANSMISSION?

Transmission? What the hell are they talking about? Can you think of any mode of communication that works this way outside of Tom Clancy novels?

[Pardalis]

From Grove:

there was information pertaining to a man-made disaster being created- what was to be the Tsunamis that hit Indonesia

Holly cow! This is paranoia to the EXTREME!

So the movings of the Earth's tectonic plates are man-made?!!!!:jaw-dropp

[Polaris]

I'm wondering what their 3rd edition will be like. What if they removed everything that was garbage or misleading or patently false? Oh, sorry. That would be a video consisting of:

Opening credits,

Statement about how the WTC and a portion of the Pentagon was destroyed on 9/11, with no pictures.

Ending Credits

I'd like to thank the people on this thread for helping me talk a friend out of believing loose change (again!). Just goes to show that a degree from the top university in the nation doesn't prevent you from being drawn in by these hucksters.

Considering the amount of legal action and civil litigation they're likely to get now that the Naudets have started the ball rolling, I bet they use Loose Change 3 to claim that the eeeeviiillllllll Korporations did it.

[WildCat]

From Grove:



Holly cow! This is paranoia to the EXTREME!

So the movings of the Earth's tectonic plates are man-made?!!!!:jaw-dropp
Like I said, I really think this guy is seriously mentally ill and needs to find treatment - but that he is unlikely to find treatment so long as he is around his current group of "friends". Really, I sincerely feel bad for this guy - and angry at the mindless idiots that encourage his illness.

[JamesB]

I was reminded of Russel Crowe in a Beautiful Mind, or Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. I wonder if he has clippings from newspapers plastered all over the walls of his apartment?

[kalen]

There's a thread over there now about a video that apparently shows someone in one of the towers on the phone, just prior to collapse. The video is synchronized to an audio recording of the phone call and it apparently goes right up to the collapse. By the descriptions given, the last few seconds are horrific.

You can hear the squibs going off in the background right before the collapse.

Not.

.

[Belz...]

Mock mock mock

It's no wonder why you can't see the obviousness of the us government's complicity in sept 11, joker.

No, he can't see it because none of you bafoons can bring any real evidence to us. You're just slapping one another in the back and eating chips and drinking beer while claiming to work for democracy...

From your link:

A Grand Master Chess Player can think 20 or more moves deep- in essence calculating a Googol of possibilities in his or her mind before making a move.

I hope it's "in essence", because otherwise the author doesn't have a clue what a googol is.

[Belz...]

Yeah, but I discredited myself just enough, by not remembering your previous post, to make it appear that I didn't. That's why I get paid the big socks.

Bastard. That's what I get for beign the blunt instrument around here.

[hellaeon]

I was reminded of Russel Crowe in a Beautiful Mind, or Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. I wonder if he has clippings from newspapers plastered all over the walls of his apartment?

Well they are the CTers heros. I actually registered over there. Why I dont know. Ill see how long I can last without being insulted by someone for being blind.

Hey do we have a ranking board somewhere for the globalists here?
I want to know my efforts to silence the plebs out there dont go unnoticed.
And I want my socks.

[XXX]

On a off topic, just got finished watch their newest "great" 9/11 movie, "Take Back 9/11". Nothing new here, same old rehashing about the towers falling at near free fall and everything else. They show the towers falling and repeat an audio clip over and over again set to some music that talks about fascism or something. It's really quite annoying and detracting.

Plus, they don't even get into 9/11 until about 28 minutes in.

[Belz...]

Some more highlights from "whistleblower" Richard Andrew Grove.

it explains that oil is not a fossil fuel, and not in danger of running out. But I digress…*

You also look like a fool, Andrew. So, what ? Does he even know what fossil fuel means ?

For me, it became obvious, only a few moments after the South Tower explosion, that the personnel and vehicles I was observing at Ground Zero were not there to help rescue people.*

Mind-reading. Gotta love it.

Perhaps someone with Patriot Act Authority went to my landlord who helped them gain entry. Interestingly enough, when we were forced into exodus in 2003...

Gotta go with WildCat on this one. The guy needs help. Preferably in the form of pills.

It started with American Express. Although I had a verbal agreement with them to pay in full the expenses which I had been left hanging with after an abrupt termination, my account was closed; and they called for me to pay off my card, in full, immediately.*

There's something terribly wrong with someone's cerebral cortex when that person thinks EVERYONE is out to get him. How does someone get that far ?

In August 2003, I found out that one of my clients, DynCorp was engaged in the international sex-slave trade, selling women and children in various parts of the world for the purposes of prostitution, slavery, and use in snuff films; wherein they are murdered for entertainment.

Snuff films. I though that little myth had gone out of fashion.

Search on the “United Nations +DynCorp” and you may find that DynCorp was convicted of having sold over 200,000 women and children through this black market slave trade, and that’s only a fraction of the illicit business they’ve done over the past several years.

And yet no one noticed 200,000 missing Americans.

Al Qaeda is the shadow cast by elements of the intelligence community… “Al Qaeda” means the Base, and “Al Qaeda” takes its name from a database file wherein information on miscellaneous terrorists was filed for future classification.*

So... Al Qaeda doesn't really exist ? Then who's been bombing all these places in the last few years ?

Tesla-based weapons like H.A.A.R.P. leave a unique signature which differentiates their manifestations from those which occur in Nature- and if you know what to look for, you can identify man-made earthquakes, such as the Iranian quake which occurred one year to the day before the Indonesian Tsunamis.

Wow! Now all he has to do is mention JFK and the moon hoax and he'll probably win a place in the Guinness book of records as the person who believes in the greatest number of conspiracy theories... simultaneously.

specifically Dylan, Korey, and Jason because they are an excellent example of the power of a few young minds, and while they seem to be well informed, they’re also very wise for their age.

Indeed. Mr Voorhees is one wise machette-wielding individual.

They’re trail-blazers, and have produced what I consider the most palatable and widely consumable documentary of the 9-11 genre, because it presents the facts without fanfare… and it addresses sensitive topics with grace and professionalism.

That's just insulting.

September 11th, 1971: construction began on both the North and South Tower- that same day, Nikita Khrushchev died, and there was also the famous at Attica Prison, in New York. Noting that the Twin Towers were destroyed 30 years to the day after their birth.*

At least get the year right, bucko.

According to http://www.infoplease.com/spot/wtc1.html:

"...the project was approved and construction began in 1966.

In order to create the 16-acre World Trade Center site, five streets were closed off and 164 buildings were demolished. Construction required the excavation of more than 1.2 million cubic yards of earth, which was used to create 23.5 acres of land along the Hudson River, now part of Battery Park City in lower Manhattan. During peak construction periods, 3,500 people worked at the site. A total of 10,000 people worked on the towers; 60 died during its construction.

[...]

The north tower was opened in Dec. 1970 and the south tower in Jan. 1972; they were dedicated in April 1973."

Well, at least Khrushchev died on September 11th.

ETA: Clarity

[Belz...]

Hey do we have a ranking board somewhere for the globalists here?
I want to know my efforts to silence the plebs out there dont go unnoticed.
And I want my socks.

You get one, and you somehow have to make it into 17 before you get your number. Have fun.

[delphi_ote]

I hope it's "in essence", because otherwise the author doesn't have a clue what a googol is.
Chess players do not examine all of the moves. That is impossible.

Kasparov said he can calculate the potential of about 3 moves per second at best, "but they are the best moves.
http://cooltech.iafrica.com/technews/203957.htm

Ordinary players look only 2-3 moves ahead, skilled players may look 10 or even 20 moves ahead. Such players can do that because they are very good at pruning, i.e. ignoring moves that are not promising. Therefore at each step they consider very few possible moves (often only one!).
Theo Pavlidis

Asked how many moves ahead he can think, Kasparov replied that it depended on the positions of the pieces. "Normally, I would calculate three to five moves," he said. "You don't need more.... But I can go much deeper if it is required." For example, in a position involving forced moves, it's possible to look ahead as many as 12 or 14 moves, he noted.
http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathland1.html

"I could see the geometry of the board, and could see very clearly 15 moves ahead," Kasparov added. "I felt very comfortable * not as comfortable as a computer, but much more comfortable than my opponents."
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/1999/april28/kasparov-428.html

[Brainster]

Some more highlights from "whistleblower" Richard Andrew Grove.
PLEEEEZE tell me this is a hoax! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!


You can reach me telephonically or by leaving a voicemail at 917-779-9215 or you can email me at Richard [at] Renaissance-Interventures {dot} com

ETA: got that frequency handy, Kenneth?

Looks like this proud voice of truth has gotten the gravy for the brain treatment:

Server not found

Firefox can't find the server at www[dot}renaissance-interventures{dot}com

Looking around for my copy of "Everything You Know is Wrong" by Firesign Theatre....

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Mock mock mock

It's no wonder why you can't see the obviousness of the us government's complicity in sept 11, joker.

No, geggy. For once shut up and LISTEN! You've been on these forums for weeks. You've posted your drivel. We've read it, analyzed it, and rebutted it and yet you insist on running around like pre-Sullivan Hellen Keller; blind, deaf, and unable to communicate in a meaningful manner.

It's been spelled out, plain as day for you, http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=56510, what your current actions represent in the world.

Stop trying to convert us like some fundementalist sockpuppet.

If you want to have a meaningful discussion on the strengths or weaknesses of specific arguments then, by all means, present them. But if you do, then pause and LISTEN and try to UNDERSTAND the answers are provided. Otherwise... SHUT THE HELL UP!

[ob986s]

sighs I feel sorry for you people...

Read this...

http://www.freewebs.com/abigsecret/grove.html

This is serious...!!

I can't believe I did it but for fun I scanned geggy's article, when quite a few firms were mentioned that I have worked for or competed against I actually read the entire thing.

All I can say is, wow, what a nut bag.

Software that does predictive failure analysis being able to tell the future? WTF? I would never, before today, have believed that someone could be so deeply insane as to have their corporate marketing literature actually woven into their psychosis. Absolutely amazing.

Companies buying DR solutions prior to 9/11 because they had advanced knowledge? I guess Y2K never happened, or (and CT’ers please give me proper credit if you run with this one) was the whole Y2K thing just a ruse to give these companies an excuse for building these DR Solutions?

Enterprise financial software being an elaborate ruse to steal trillions of dollars as well as launder billions from sex slave and drug sales?

I guess I should add that since I have many of those same customers, have sold DR, ERP (enterprise financial software) , PFA and just about every other major IT Solution that I must be now officially a Globalist. Cool, I have read this entire thread and now that I am a gloablist shill I am happy to have contributed

[JamesB]

Apparently the domain does exist. Someone should send him an e-mail and see if he is getting proper treatment.

Registrant:
Renaissance Interventures
Richard Grove
34 Jefferson St Box K
Manchester, CT 06040
US
Email: richard@renaissance-interventures(dot)com

Registrar Name....: REGISTER(dot)COM, INC
Registrar Whois...: whois(dot)register(dot)com
Registrar Homepage: www(dot)register(dot)com

Domain Name: renaissance-interventures(dot)com

Created on..............: Sun, Feb 23, 2003
Expires on..............: Fri, Feb 23, 2007
Record last updated on..: Fri, Feb 24, 2006

[R.Mackey]

Unless you can explain how the Taliban infiltrated the secure vaults under the World Trade Center and stole hundreds of billions in bouillon, why the owners of that Bullion are keeping quiet,

Wha-haa??? Are you daft?

Even ignoring the other multiple pages of sheer lunacy, let's see... September 2001, $300 an ounce, 31.1 grams to the troy ounce... Just one measly "hundred of billions in bouillon" works out to 10,300 metric tons. That's over 2% the mass of a WTC tower, and 7% of all the gold mined since the dawn of time.

I mean, that other theory about the towers being built out of C4 was bad enough -- you'd build them out of ruddy gold!

Haven't you people ever seen Goldfinger? Here's a tip: If your insane theories are too incredible to pass muster in an Ian Fleming novel, they're probably too insane for the real world.

So, geggy (assuming that you're not Mr. Grove, or that you and he were taking hits off the same sheet of acid when he came up with this), I'd like you to explain, in complete sentences, exactly what you found so credible and compelling about this *ahem* theory to compel you to share it with us. I am far more interested in the answer to this question then in receiving another, equally splatter-brained, theory.

Thanks!

[CptColumbo]

Let me welcome all the new bloods to the forum, and encourage you (no matter where your beliefs fall) to look at some of the non-LC related threads (if you haven't already). For those who are suprised at how quickly we prove or disprove a theory, it may be enlightening. It will also show you that we don't just pick on LC supporters.

[CptColumbo]

As much as I like a good mystery (especially a certain cigar smoking TV detective), real life is rarely like a mystery story. The likeliest explanation is usually the correct one.

[Gravy]

...Even ignoring the other multiple pages of sheer lunacy, let's see... September 2001, $300 an ounce, 31.1 grams to the troy ounce... Just one measly "hundred of billions in bouillon" works out to 10,300 metric tons. That's over 2% the mass of a WTC tower, and 7% of all the gold mined since the dawn of time...
Yeeeessss. "Loose Change" at least had the "sense" to limit this theft to $167 billion, or 56% of all the gold reserves in the world as of Sept. 2001. This theft was accomplished between the time of the first plane impact and the south tower collapse.

:faint:

[money]

Yeeeessss. "Loose Change" at least had the "sense" to limit this theft to $167 billion, or 56% of all the gold reserves in the world as of Sept. 2001. This theft was accomplished between the time of the first plane impact and the south tower collapse.

:faint:

Wait a minute.... What? I read your guide and didn't notice that bit of manure.

Or are you talking about their first version of the film?

Wasn't the time between first impact and fall less than an hour and a half?

[Gravy]

Wait a minute.... What? I read your guide and didn't notice that bit of manure.

Or are you talking about their first version of the film?

Wasn't the time between first impact and fall less than an hour and a half?
It's in my guide, near the very end. Read how they found gold in an empty dump truck!

It's one of the top few stupidest claims they make, but it gets almost no attention, I think because people are so exhausted by the cavalcade o' ignorance that they're numb at that point.

[JamesB]

I discussed it too at screw loose change, although I have to give a hat tip to gravy for bringing up the issue.

[money]

It's in my guide, near the very end. Read how they found gold in an empty dump truck!

It's one of the top few stupidest claims they make, but it gets almost no attention, I think because people are so exhausted by the cavalcade o' ignorance that they're numb at that point.


Huh, there it is, pgs 113-115. You're right, I think my eyes must have just glossed over that (gold) nugget...

The crux of this part of Avery's CT hinges on what even he describes as a rumor!

From LC (via Gravy's butt-whooping) "Rumor has it that over $160 billion dollars in gold were stored in the World Trade Center."

And somehow the globalists whisked away all but 230 $million worth in under two hours, undetected? No one noticed a line of dumptrucks from WTC to Canada? Are there even enough dumptrucks in the NYC metro area to haul that much in that amount of time, even assuming some perfectly effiecient loading system?

Note: I'm just asking questions. ;)

[Pardalis]

Huh, there it is, pgs 113-115. You're right, I think my eyes must have just glossed over that (gold) nugget...

The crux of this part of Avery's CT hinges on what even he describes as a rumor!

From LC (via Gravy's butt-whooping) "Rumor has it that over $160 billion dollars in gold were stored in the World Trade Center."

And somehow the globalists whisked away all but 230 $million worth in under two hours, undetected? No one noticed a line of dumptrucks from WTC to Canada? Are there even enough dumptrucks in the NYC metro area to haul that much in that amount of time, even assuming some perfectly effiecient loading system?

Note: I'm just asking questions. ;)

Teleportation, man. TELEPORTATION!:eye-poppi

[money]

Teleportation, man. TELEPORTATION!:eye-poppi

Yet, those same globalists couldn't use that teleportation device to plant some WMD's... they're too busy dinking around with people's socks...

edit- spelling

[Gravy]

Huh, there it is, pgs 113-115. You're right, I think my eyes must have just glossed over that (gold) nugget...

The crux of this part of Avery's CT hinges on what even he describes as a rumor!

From LC (via Gravy's butt-whooping) "Rumor has it that over $160 billion dollars in gold were stored in the World Trade Center."

And somehow the globalists whisked away all but 230 $million worth in under two hours, undetected? No one noticed a line of dumptrucks from WTC to Canada? Are there even enough dumptrucks in the NYC metro area to haul that much in that amount of time, even assuming some perfectly effiecient loading system?

Note: I'm just asking questions. ;)
Oh, I did that calculation for fun a while ago. Trying to remember now. I believe it took about 60 18-wheelers to haul the $230 million of gold & silver (there was much more silver, something like 30,000 bars). So, they would have needed 43,560 trucks to haul the same proportions of $167 billion. But let's assume they were being very conservative with the distribution of the $230 million, and let's really overload our getaway trucks, and call it an even 20,000 18-wheelers.

[money]

Oh, I did that calculation for fun a while ago. Trying to remember now. I believe it took about 60 18-wheelers to haul the $230 million of gold & silver (there was much more silver, something like 30,000 bars). So, they would have needed 43,560 trucks to haul the same proportions of $167 billion. But let's assume they were being very conservative with the distribution of the $230 million, and let's really overload our getaway trucks, and call it an even 20,000 18-wheelers.

:D ... seems feasible...

Has anyone added 20,000 truckers to the list of people who must have been involved? Not to mention the workers that performed whatever method Avery thinks they used to load these trucks...

[sleahead]

hundreds of billions in bouillon, why the owners of that Bullion

It's interesting the way he moves from bouillon to Bullion within the space of a few words. You may dismiss bouillon as a typo but, as I too believe he is mentally ill, he may actually mean bouillon. After all, the document dates from April and nobody has seen fit to correct it. Would the taking of $167 billion in stock cubes be a more feasible heist? As they often say over on LC, it's worth considering.

[sophia8]

9/11 CT swill on the verge of destroying a family:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5267&view=findpost&p=4920665

Someone who still has an active account, please try talking some sense into this man before he loses his family and friends. There's not a lot you can do about this type of person. Like any fundamentalist bleever, they have such a fragile sense of self that it is entirely subsumed into a single belief:I even approached the subject by sending an 'old' girlfriend, my first love that still means the world to me even today, a copy of the video speech made my Professor David Ray Griffin (I consider it to be very well done, very professional, packed full of facts and things to consider on their own right) -- the response was sadly something similar to others I have received -- Don't send me such trash again, saying she didn't have the time or desire for such nonsense. That breaks my heart, let alone confuses the dickens out of me. I am starting to wonder what it was I ever saw in this person in the first place if she wouldn't (or couldn't) accept the TRUTH in what actually happened to us as a people, as a nation. I'm lost and I'm even more confused (as to 9/11 facts) and it goes way beyond what it was that any alledged terrorist may have done to us -- I'm lost and I'm confused as to how best to get the word out to the non-believers, especially those I love and care about, let alone complete strangers.So when somebody rejects their belief it is seen as rejection of THEM.
They need professional help. But they'll never ask for it.

[Gravy]

...Would the taking of $167 billion in stock cubes be a more feasible heist? As they often say over on LC, it's worth considering.
Aha! Now we know what stock scandals they were talking about. It wasn't the "put" options at all! That was merely a red flag put op! The FDA should have been investigating, not the SEC!

[Gravy]

Looking through my notes, I realized I had never posted this. It's always nice to wake up spitting mad. I am going to do my very best to make an honest man out of this *^#$&*%%#%*&()&$)*&^$@@$%#$!$#@$^%$# called Dylan Avery.

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.
http://www.theedgeam.com/interviews/audiofiles.htm
Excerpts
"I started working on this project back in May, 2002, when I was about 18. The whole thing started as an accident. I was researching for what was supposed to be a fictional movie, about myself and my friends discovering that 9/11 was done by our own government. I did my research and my homework, and it turned out to be true, so it went from a fictional story to a documentary."

"That's what Giuliani did. He blocked off a crime scene and destroyed the evidence. ...and completely denied any investigators from coming in. ...nobody was allowed to go in there, nobody was allowed to look at the steel, I mean, FEMA couldn't even go in there."

"All we did was report what was reported on 9/11, and what was subsequently ignored on September 12th, and in days and months following.

"I mean, you had Peter Jennings watching the collapse of the world trade center and saying, you know, 'That looks like a controlled demolition.' "

Daniel Ott: "Dylan, does George Bush hate you for this?"

Dylan: "I would imagine he does. Well, he may not hate me for it, but I'm probably just another thorn in his side."

Daniel Ott: "Do you think you're on some kind of list now?"

Dylan: "I would imagine so. I can still fly safely, so I'm not on the no-fly list, but I'd like to imagine that I'm on some list somewhere."

Avery on the south tower: "You've got almost an intact core, and maybe a small fire inside."

Ott: "Are you suggesting that this video [version 3] is going to play in national theaters?"

Avery: "Oh, it's going to. It's already going to happen....Unlike Michael Moore's movie, we're actually going to tell the truth about 9/11."

"There's no 757 at the Pentagon. It just simply isn't there. It didn't hit the Pentagon, obviously, and there's no trace of it at the Pentagon, so where did it go? ...If you check the independent pictures and video that was shot right after the Pentagon was hit, you've got a hole that was NO MORE than 16 to 20 feet in diameter on the outside wall of the Pentagon, and that is the ONLY damage to the outside.Again, a 16 to 20 foot hole. It's kind of like the government telling us that a 757 could basically disappear into a garage door. [Emphasis is Avery's]

Daniel Ott: You know when you create a website or a DVD and you put bogus material in there where you try to persuade people in a certain direction, most people are intelligent enough to know that. And so it doesn't cut it anymore to say, 'It's an internet thing, therefore it is disqualified from the truth. Most of us know that people will instantly pick up the dubious type of information that may be presented to them."

You've got Jamie MacIntyre at the Pentagon saying, hey, there's no plane here, and you have people at Shanksville saying there's no plane here, and people just brushed it off!

'People who are in the military, and people whose lives depend on the military are not exactly going to be eager to accept this information, and I don't blame them if they aren't. I'm basically saying their bosses killed 3,000 people, I mean, that's hard for a lot of people to accept.

I think we have more people in the military and in positions of power who are on our side and aware of this information than aren't. Granted, they may not be out in public saying so, but I'd like to think if they watched our movie they'd say, 'Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.' "

"People who attack my movie, they're not even attacking my movie, they're attacking me. There's this one, like, 50-page pdf file floating around out there, supposably [sic] debunking my entire movie, and the first three pages are basically just insulting me....These people have nothing to come back with., i mean, I'm giving you scientific, and, yo know, logic evidence, and these people are coming back with petty insults. I mean, think about that: I'm simply trying to ask honest questions of my government and why they're saying these things which obviously aren't true, and the best thing people can come up with is, 'Well, you're a stupid kid.' "

Daniel Ott: "That's not evidence."

Avery: "That's not evidence. That doesn't refute anything. It only makes my case stronger!"

Daniel Ott: "Yeah, sure does."


Daniel Ott: "People might automatically think that any 9/11 video is wild speculation, but you present evidence that is irrefutable."

Dylan: "Well, I tried to, I tried to stick to the things that were as solid as possible, and tried not to speculate. Tried to give as little answers and as many questions as possible."

Avery on building 7 "Barely even in the damage range...It wasn't hit by a substantial amount of debris."

"Oklahoma City, obviously an inside job. The 1993 World Trade Center bombing, obviously an inside job."

About the victims: "These people died on 9/11. They didn't die on these planes as we are told. There is actually some evidence that some of these people were already dead before 9/11. And again, a lot of this is just speculation. Nothing's been 100% confirmed, but these people existed, and we get 20-30 emails a day at least from people who lost relatives on 9/11, and I couldn't call them liars, I mean, that would just be ridiculous for me. The more emails I get from family members, the more I'm convinced that the passengers on these flights were more or less real, and more or less real people. The only question is, where did they go? And my theory is as good as yours, because I simply don't know."

About the planes: "I would like to think that these 4 planes are still flying around."

Daniel Ott: "What about the people looking outside the hole in the towers. I mean, if it was so hot enough to melt the beams, how is it people were waving from the impact area.?"

Dylan: "Exactly. I mean, the heat inside the twin towers was allegedly like, you know, some documentaries go so far to say that it was three times the heat of a nuclear power plant, it's just simply not possible. To even say that the heat was, you know, 1500 degrees fahrenheit, you know, that's three times your broiler, Okay?

I mean, you have Edna Cintron, which is actually the woman who is looking out the gash in the World Trade Center. I mean, this woman is standing there, I mean, she's just looking out the hole, and I mean, there's supposedly 2,000 degree inferno right behind her, and, I mean, she's able to stand here and look out this hole and wave for help. I mean, her clothes aren't on fire, I mean, her clothes aren't even singed from what we can see, "

About the 9/11 Commission: "Twelve of the scummiest people in the country."

About George Bush: "I'd like to think he's just being manipulated by his higher-ups."

"There's obviously some form of government that's controlling things that we aren't aware of."

"When millions of Americans realize that we were lied to and duped and murdered by our own government, people are going to be upset! People are going to take to the streets. And I don't want a violent American revolution, but it's probably going to happen."
)(&*^$$#$*&)*)^#&^$%*)(*^%#@^@#!$#&^^(&_#&_((I&&^%$()(*$%$@!##!%@$^$%##^&*%()*(^&^%^)()*+)(&%^%$@%*(^
:mad:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/8790447edad57b528.jpg

[Belz...]

The whole thing started as an accident. I was researching for what was supposed to be a fictional movie, about myself and my friends discovering that 9/11 was done by our own government. I did my research and my homework, and it turned out to be true, so it went from a fictional story to a documentary.

So he admits to inventing the story, now ? Adolescent fantasy creates dangerous cult. Huh!

[Belz...]

"I would imagine so. I can still fly safely, so I'm not on the no-fly list, but I'd like to imagine that I'm on some list somewhere."

Neat. So he can spend the rest of his life claiming he's hunted but that the conspirators don't dare touch him because he's a public figure. Bah. What an "/$(%&"&*.

[Darat]

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.
http://www.theedgeam.com/interviews/audiofiles.htm
Excerpts
...snip..

"People who attack my movie, they're not even attacking my movie, they're attacking me. .... These people have nothing to come back with., i mean, I'm giving you scientific, and, yo know, logic evidence, and these people are coming back with petty insults. .....'Well, you're a stupid kid.' "

Daniel Ott: "That's not evidence."

Avery: "That's not evidence. That doesn't refute anything. It only makes my case stronger!"

....snip...


About the 9/11 Commission: "Twelve of the scummiest people in the country.

....

About George Bush: "I'd like to think he's just being manipulated by his higher-ups."

"There's obviously some form of government that's controlling things that we aren't aware of."

[Flo]

Looking through my notes, I realized I had never posted this. It's always nice to wake up spitting mad. I am going to do my very best to make an honest man out of this *^#$&*%%#%*&()&$)*&^$@@$%#$!$#@$^%$# called Dylan Avery.

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.
http://www.theedgeam.com/interviews/audiofiles.htm
Excerpts


I'd love to hear Giuliani's take on this bit:

"That's what Giuliani did. He blocked off a crime scene and destroyed the evidence. ...and completely denied any investigators from coming in. ...nobody was allowed to go in there, nobody was allowed to look at the steel, I mean, FEMA couldn't even go in there."

[ZouPrime]

You got it all wrong guys. They didn't got the idea from Goldfingers, Cheney took it directly from Die Hard III after having a minor role in it:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5307


After watching the LC2, the question of the gold being smuggled out of the building was bugging me, particularly how it was so similar to the plot of Die Hard 3. Then I was checking with wikipedia about the movie and under the trivia tidbits it lists this little factoid.

Dick Cheney, the current Vice President of the United States, plays a non-speaking bit part as a New York official. The director pointed him out on the DVD audio commentary.

Now I am usually loathe to use Wikipedia as a primary source, but since that info is attributed to the director in the commentary I figured it would easily quantifiable, unfortunately I don't have a copy as part of my collection, even though it does rock hard, so I could use someone's help in checking if this is true, and in what scene he appears in.

This raises an interesting question. If Cheney was indeed one of the purpetrators in this conspiracy, is this where he got the idea for the gold heist?

For those unfimiliar with the movie, a group of German terrorists hold NYC in their grip, using bombs and subsequent threats to lead NYPD on a wild goose chase to find bombs around the city, while at the same time using an explosion in the Wall Street Subway station as a cover to make off with dump trucks filled with gold bars from "your Fort Knox" located in the Federal Reserve Bank and pass through tunnels into Canada.

The fact that the WTC is only a few blocks away from Wall Street, that Cheney was in the movie and would subsequently know the plot, and that the supposed heist is eirily similar to what supposedly transpired on 9/11 raises yet another one of those annoying conincidences that surround the attack.

[dissonance]

And somehow the globalists whisked away all but 230 $million worth in under two hours, undetected? No one noticed a line of dumptrucks from WTC to Canada? Are there even enough dumptrucks in the NYC metro area to haul that much in that amount of time, even assuming some perfectly effiecient loading system?

Hey, it (almost) worked in the third Die Hard! And we know Bruce Willis and Sam Jackson weren't at the WTC to prevent it happening for real, so clearly it's possible and really happened.

Edit - Ha! Obviously I'm not the only one who thought of that...

[The_Fire]

Looking through my notes, I realized I had never posted this. It's always nice to wake up spitting mad. I am going to do my very best to make an honest man out of this *^#$&*%%#%*&()&$)*&^$@@$%#$!$#@$^%$# called Dylan Avery.

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.
http://www.theedgeam.com/interviews/audiofiles.htm
Excerpts

)(&*^$$#$*&)*)^#&^$%*)(*^%#@^@#!$#&^^(&_#&_((I&&^%$()(*$%$@!##!%@$^$%##^&*%()*(^&^%^)()*+)(&%^%$@%*(^
:mad:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/8790447edad57b528.jpg


Need any help?
I bet there are some pretty pissed off relatives etc. whom would enjoy the chance of getting a swing of a libel/civil lawsuit kind of thing against this moron.

[kookbreaker]

I'd love to hear Giuliani's take on this bit:

That's what's ludicrous. The idea that Giuliani had any part in any conspiracy. Rudi loves NYC, whatever you may think of him. The idea that he would be a part of any conspiracy that would bring such carnage to the city he loves is beyond absurd. If Dylan had the guts to say that to Rudi's face (he doesn't), his own face might well be torn off.

Where is Dylan from anyway? Its sure as [rule8] ain't New York.

[aggle-rithm]

You're mocked because you've made so many claims without backing them up. If you'd back up one claim, people might start listening to you instead of laughing at you. Until then, you've already shown you don't take this day in history seriously at all. For you, it's just an exciting Dan Brown novel.

There are exciting Dan Brown novels?!?

[kookbreaker]

There's this one, like, 50-page pdf file floating around out there, supposably [sic] debunking my entire movie, and the first three pages are basically just insulting me....These people have nothing to come back with.,

Lie some more Dylan. Your cult will beleive you. That's all that matters.

I think you are starting to make him sweat, Gravy.

[Flo]

That's what's ludicrous. The idea that Giuliani had any part in any conspiracy. Rudi loves NYC, whatever you may think of him. The idea that he would be a part of any conspiracy that would bring such carnage to the city he loves is beyond absurd. If Dylan had the guts to say that to Rudi's face (he doesn't), his own face might well be torn off.

I expect even someone who loathes New York would object to being accused of being guilty of/accomplice to/covering the murder of 3000+ people. At some point, someone will notice those accusations and the result will not be something that can be settled with the quick retractation of some stolen images ... I'd love to see Avery and the like* try to present their "evidence" in court in front a more than a few irate fire fighters, policemen, victim's families, politicians, etc.


* that scum Meyssan in France, for example.

[delphi_ote]

There are exciting Dan Brown novels?!?
Only for the literarily-challenged.

[chipmunk stew]

Looking through my notes, I realized I had never posted this. It's always nice to wake up spitting mad. I am going to do my very best to make an honest man out of this *^#$&*%%#%*&()&$)*&^$@@$%#$!$#@$^%$# called Dylan Avery.

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.
http://www.theedgeam.com/interviews/audiofiles.htm
Excerpts
"I started working on this project back in May, 2002, when I was about 18. The whole thing started as an accident. I was researching for what was supposed to be a fictional movie, about myself and my friends discovering that 9/11 was done by our own government."

Daniel Ott: "Dylan, does George Bush hate you for this?"
Dylan: "I would imagine he does. Well, he may not hate me for it, but I'm probably just another thorn in his side."

Daniel Ott: "Do you think you're on some kind of list now?"
Dylan: "I would imagine so. I can still fly safely, so I'm not on the no-fly list, but I'd like to imagine that I'm on some list somewhere."

"I think we have more people in the military and in positions of power who are on our side and aware of this information than aren't. Granted, they may not be out in public saying so, but I'd like to think if they watched our movie they'd say, 'Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.' "

"Well, I tried to, I tried to stick to the things that were as solid as possible, and tried not to speculate."

"I would like to think that these 4 planes are still flying around."

"I'd like to think [Bush is] just being manipulated by his higher-ups."

"And I don't want a violent American revolution, but it's probably going to happen."

)(&*^$$#$*&)*)^#&^$%*)(*^%#@^@#!$#&^^(&_#&_((I&&^%$()(*$%$@!##!%@$^$%##^&*%()*(^&^%^)()*+)(&%^%$@%*(^
:mad:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/8790447edad57b528.jpg
Boy's got quite the imagination.

[Flo]

Boy's got quite the imagination.

Only not where it would be really useful (like figuring the possible consequences of libel).

[delphi_ote]

This raises an interesting question. If Cheney was indeed one of the purpetrators in this conspiracy, is this [Die Hard 3] where he got the idea for the gold heist?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...

Whew. I need to catch my breath... okay. There.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Whew... okay. I think I'm better now. I've always said these guys thought life imitated a Jerry Bruckheimer or Michael Bay film. I was wrong. They think it imitates a bad John McTiernan film!

[Manny]

Boy's got quite the imagination.Yeah, laugh it up now, boys. But DJ is almost done with his debunking of Gravy (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5147)1. He'll get to it right after he avenges the deaths of all those people murdered by the NYPD in the King Street massacre (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5200). And they you'll be eating crow, well, actually pretty much the same stuff you always eat. A nice grilled hamburger with fresh onion and crisp lettuce on a toasted bun, or something.



1: From the looks of things, Gravy, you pretty much got all the actual facts right, but you're, well, you're snarky.

[chipmunk stew]

"An hour long smorgasbord of content from Louder Than Words" (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1840058038507754977)

Dylan's comments (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5317&view=findpost&p=4946179):
and let me put this disclaimer, right here, right now:
this presentation is in no way an indication of the arrangement or content of Loose Change Final Cut, and is merely intended as entertainment for our rabid fans until it hits theaters.

the lawsuit is still being worked out, FYI.

edit: Let me fix Mr. Avery's quote to help him with further legal troubles that may be on the horizon:
...disclaimer...:
...Loose Change...is merely intended as entertainment...

[Flo]

1: From the looks of things, Gravy, you pretty much got all the actual facts right, but you're, well, you're snarky.


One common trait among woos, whatever the subject, is they can accept the idea of contradiction (not the actual thing, of course), but only if it is presented with a lot of sugarcoating. Sarcasm, to them, is an indication of being bad, and being bad is being wrong. OTOH, contradiction while being nice amounts to being mistaken at worse, but more importantly being open-minded, thus susceptible to conversion to their point of view.


(ETA: someone correct my English grammar, I got the feeling something's not right. Sarcasm is OK)

[kookbreaker]

Yeah, laugh it up now, boys. But DJ is almost done with his debunking of Gravy (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5147)1.


Is this going to be as good as that 'debunking' of 911myths? The one that was a pile of 'Yeah, right' comments with the ocassional 'I don't buy it!'

[60hzxtl]

Bold is from the Ott interview:

Italic is my running snarkyness

"That's what Giuliani did. He blocked off a crime scene and destroyed the evidence. ...And completely denied any investigators from coming in. ...nobody was allowed to go in there, nobody was allowed to look at the steel, I mean, FEMA couldn't even go in there."

Try it, "like, hey man, Dylan" Try it on Rudy. Rudy was in 7 WTC when he was told to evacuate. Half of his group went to door # 1 and DIED. His body guard stopped them and told them door # 2. He lived. Just try it.

"I mean, you had Peter Jennings watching the collapse of the world trade center and saying, you know, 'That looks like a controlled demolition.' "

Peter Jennings was once heard to say, Gee those clouds look like angels. Clearly he knew what he was talking about. They must have gotten to ol' Peter with that cancer.

Daniel Ott: "Dylan, does George Bush hate you for this?"

Bush: "like, hey man, Dylan" Who?

Dylan: "I would imagine he does. Well, he may not hate me for it, but I'm probably just another thorn in his side."

Bush: Who?

Daniel Ott: "Do you think you're on some kind of list now?"

Yes, the please do not breed list.

Dylan: "I would imagine so. I can still fly safely, so I'm not on the no-fly list, but I'd like to imagine that I'm on some list somewhere."

OK : "like, hey man, Dylan" Why do you still live in the country?



"Oklahoma City, obviously an inside job. The 1993 World Trade Center bombing, obviously an inside job."

Yeah, "like, hey man, Dylan" is right! Wait - who was president then?

[Belz...]

You got it all wrong guys. They didn't got the idea from Goldfingers, Cheney took it directly from Die Hard III after having a minor role in it:

"The fact that the WTC is only a few blocks away from Wall Street, that Cheney was in the movie and would subsequently know the plot, and that the supposed heist is eirily similar to what supposedly transpired on 9/11 raises yet another one of those annoying conincidences that surround the attack."

Well, he certainly gives credibility to those who say kids can't tell the difference between reality and fiction.

[Belz...]

Only for the literarily-challenged.

Come now, Delphi. There are people who love the novels for what they are. Let's not generalise.

[delphi_ote]

"An hour long smorgasbord of content from Louder Than Words" (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1840058038507754977)

Dylan's comments (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5317&view=findpost&p=4946179):
Sander Hicks, Green Party candidate, huh?
Yesterday, I lost the Green nominating convention to Howie Hawkins, a co-founder of the Green Party, a teamster, and a peace activist. My campaign is over, but that's OK, I learned a lot and met a lot of people. I have a great beginning for mass support inside the Green Party, although I realize I need to pay my dues a bit more. I am now working on Howie's campaign.
http://www.hicksforsenate.com/

He didn't even get the nomination. Looks like that nutbag isn't a candidate for anything.

Here are his comments on the Pentagon (bolding mine):
You had rush hour traffic on I-395 that saw the plane hit, you have 100 eyewitnesses compiled in the pamphlet published by Penny Schoner. Where the hell did this theory come from? Thierry Meyssan's book "The Horrible Fraud" was the original source. Meyssan wrote his book from Paris, he didn't travel over here. The book is highly imaginative, and in the middle of a trauma, people are searching for answers. A lot of people in the 9/11 truth movement glommed onto this one and I think it's hurt our credibility over all. You have to wonder if that was by design. For instance, all the right-wing magazines (e.g. National Review) have had a field day.
http://www.counterpunch.org/mickey12092004.html

And another quote from the same article (again, bolding mine)
Reality is a construction. We're told what to believe by the government and media. Most people play along, pay taxes, support the troops and the wars that are part and parcel of capitalism. But there are some who drop out and fall away from the death machine. God bless them.
Hmm. I can't imagine why he wasn't nominated...

[Kiwiwriter]

There's also a very real danger in this mentality that wants so badly to see the world in simplistic, black and white or good and evil. Everyone has to fit into one category or the other. You all saw how quickly the Looser crowd sent a swarm of harassing e-mails to the Naudet brothers. They did the simple math, labeled them, and went on the offensive.

Excellent essay.

It's a sort of superstition, this is dehumanizing propaganda that teaches us a certain group of our fellow species are "the enemy" and are therefore the source of all of the misfortunes that plague the human condition. Like throwing spilled salt over his shoulder to blind an onlooking demon, by tracking down this conspiracy and rooting it out the conspiracy theorist gains control and understand of his misfortunes. He always has someone to blame when something goes wrong. It's never fate or bad luck or even himself. It's that faceless, omnipresent "enemy" at fault.

Inevitably, the rhetoric in conspiracy groups becomes more heated. What starts as curious musings foments rage and hatred. Then it's only a matter of time before the more dissilusioned members take violent action against the perceived source of evil. Murdering those responsible for every horrible thing one hears about in the news isn't madness, it's logic. Paranoia has a tragic breaking point. The JFK assasination. The Church burnings in the South. The Oklahoma City Bombings. The Beltway sniper. The Holocaust. The Columbine shootings. The Rawandan Genocide. I'm sure you can think of dozens of other examples. We see the beginnings of it already in the Loose Change crowd with the e-mails Avery mentioned threatening violence against the lawyers. If you take a few steps back, you can see it's exactly the same mentality that caused 15 Saudis, an Egyptian, two Emirati, and a Lebanese man to unleash the very destruction Avery's movie is about.

Not only are these hate groups and conspiracy nuts causing some to ignore the danger posed by other paranoid radicals, they can very easily become dangerous paranoid radicals themselves.

The paranoia associated with extremism is interesting, because it puts the world into simplistic terms..."us and them," "good and evil," "our race against the race-mixers," and so on. It also lends itself to apocalyptic thinking. The struggle with the enemy is for the survival of humanity and the planet. The battle has moved into its final hour. The paranoid extremists are the few heroic warriors standing in the gap at Armageddon.

That thinking, of course, justifies any strategy, tactic, or weapon. Note how extremists often become what they behold and use their enemies' tactics -- or simply the ones they accuse the enemy of using -- in their own methodology, and blame their enemies. Buford Furrow comes to mind for me. He went out and indiscriminately killed people for his Nazi beliefs. His outfit's rhetoric -- like most neo-Nazis -- is that their enemies are practicing genocide against the white race. So that justifies random killing.

The guys who killed Alan Berg, too...they claim they have the right to free speech and got angry when call-in radio show host Berg would ridicule them and cut them off on the phone. So these Nazis decided Berg had no right to free speech or to live, and shot him in his driveway.

It's very depressing, actually...all this behavior is heating up with the immigration debate. Whatever you may think of the immigration issue, the solution is not coming in a rise in membership in neo-Nazi and Klan organizations.

[delphi_ote]

Come now, Delphi. There are people who love the novels for what they are. Let's not generalise.
Yea yea. It's just too much fun to be mean to Dan Brown.

Q: Would you consider yourself a conspiracy theorist?

DB: Absolutely not. In fact, I'm quite the opposite-more of a skeptic. I see no truth whatsoever in stories of extraterrestrial visitors, crop circles, the Bermuda Triangle, or many of the other "mysteries" that permeate pop culture. However, the secret behind THE DA VINCI CODE was too well documented and significant for me to dismiss.
http://www.bookreporter.com/authors/au-brown-dan.asp


Q: How much of this novel is based on fact?

DB: All of it. The paintings, locations, historical documents, and organizations described in the novel all exist.
http://www.bookreporter.com/authors/au-brown-dan.asp

:rolleyes:

[Pardalis]

Yea yea. It's just too much fun to be mean to Dan Brown.


http://www.bookreporter.com/authors/au-brown-dan.asp


http://www.bookreporter.com/authors/au-brown-dan.asp

:rolleyes:

Reminds me of those CTs who say they are themselves skeptics because they doubt the official story. To them, beeing a "skeptic" = to doubt.

How simplistic and infuriating!:mad:

[juryjone]

This raises an interesting question. If Cheney was indeed one of the purpetrators in this conspiracy, is this where he got the idea for the gold heist?

No way, man! Die Hard 3 was released in 1995, some 25 years after they planted the bombs in the concrete core of the WTC towers (you know, the core TEH GLOBALISTS don't want you to know about!!!). It's obvious that the credits for DIE HARD 3 should read "From an idea by the ILLUMINATI".

ETA: Insert random misspellings on your own. I don't have the time.

[Pardalis]

I expect even someone who loathes New York would object to being accused of being guilty of/accomplice to/covering the murder of 3000+ people. At some point, someone will notice those accusations and the result will not be something that can be settled with the quick retractation of some stolen images ... I'd love to see Avery and the like* try to present their "evidence" in court in front a more than a few irate fire fighters, policemen, victim's families, politicians, etc.


This is inevitable. These bastards can't hide behind the first amendment forever. I really hope they'll be brought to justice. Avery is clearly accusing people of murder. This trash is just unacceptable.

[Kiwiwriter]

That's what's ludicrous. The idea that Giuliani had any part in any conspiracy. Rudi loves NYC, whatever you may think of him. The idea that he would be a part of any conspiracy that would bring such carnage to the city he loves is beyond absurd. If Dylan had the guts to say that to Rudi's face (he doesn't), his own face might well be torn off.

Where is Dylan from anyway? Its sure as [rule8] ain't New York.


I also find it hard to imagine Rudy Giuliani acquiescing to a conspiratorial act of multiple murder, treason, and cover-up. This is a man who was a federal prosecutor, hammering mobsters, murderers, and the Howard Beach crowd.

More importantly, this theory would suggest that Rudy Giuliani, mayor of New York, would acquiesce to the murder of 343 firefighters and 23 police officers, including the Fire Department Chief, the head Chaplain, and numerous other high-ranking fire officers. And then stand there and lie through his teeth about it for five years.

Hitler and Stalin could do that. I don't think Rudy Giuliani could sleep at night after supporting and condoning such an act.

[Pardalis]

If Avery trully believes his government is able and willing to kill 3,000 of its own citizens, then I guess his project to screen LC 3 to mainstream theatres is suicide.

If this was trully a nazi "police-state" as they believe, he'd be dead by now.

[Kiwiwriter]

One common trait among woos, whatever the subject, is they can accept the idea of contradiction (not the actual thing, of course), but only if it is presented with a lot of sugarcoating. Sarcasm, to them, is an indication of being bad, and being bad is being wrong. OTOH, contradiction while being nice amounts to being mistaken at worse, but more importantly being open-minded, thus susceptible to conversion to their point of view.


(ETA: someone correct my English grammar, I got the feeling something's not right. Sarcasm is OK)

You have to remember that "True Believers" of all stripes, particularly conspiracy theorists and extremists, have an exaggerated sense of self-importance and an utter lack of a sense of humor. They believe they are bringing the truth to the world, and that everyone in the world should agree with them and fall behind in ranks in their army of the just cause.

But in reality, they are greeted with contempt, anger, derision, and ridicule. The first two they attribute to the sinister workings of their hidden opponents. But they accept the idea of being fought, which they relish. The latter two infuriates them. True Believers should not, in their own opinion, be objects of ridicule and derision. True Believers should be objects of respect and fear. Being laughed at or mocked is the worst fate for them.

Study how folks in the mainstream put up with the jibes of Jay Leno, David Letterman, and other comedians. The White House puts their best jokes on their daily press summary. Most politicians and celebrities will simply make jokes back. Sometimes they play along, like Gerald Ford. Or they simply shrug it off, like Dick Cheney. Others try to dig their way out of the hole, like Dan Quayle and his numerous gaffes.

(During the Murphy Brown incident, he reacted to the flogging by congratulating Murphy Brown on giving birth, and even sending flowers and a teddy bear to the set, and watching the critical episode with a single mother in Washington, DC. It didn't undo the damage, but his response kept it from being worse. If he had hurled further vitriol at Murphy, or got all defensive, he would have looked even more foolish)

So when I see conspiracy theorists exploding in fury over such jibes, and whining about why nobody wants to debate their great theories, I know I've tripped over an extremist.

[The_Fire]

BTW: Does American Airlines know about all of this? The loosers are, after all, implicating them as coconspirators. That's libel/defamation.

[Flo]

I also find it hard to imagine Rudy Giuliani acquiescing to a conspiratorial act of multiple murder, treason, and cover-up. This is a man who was a federal prosecutor, hammering mobsters, murderers, and the Howard Beach crowd.

More importantly, this theory would suggest that Rudy Giuliani, mayor of New York, would acquiesce to the murder of 343 firefighters and 23 police officers, including the Fire Department Chief, the head Chaplain, and numerous other high-ranking fire officers. And then stand there and lie through his teeth about it for five years.

Hitler and Stalin could do that. I don't think Rudy Giuliani could sleep at night after supporting and condoning such an act.


The question is not about him acquiescing to the act, but about him (and the other people involved) accepting to be slurred by halwits who try to make a name for themselves through wild accusations.

[delphi_ote]

If this was trully a nazi "police-state" as they believe, he'd be dead by now.
They claim to believe this, but they don't act like it. It's some kind of weird pseudo-belief.

[Kiwiwriter]

If Avery trully believes his government is able and willing to kill 3,000 of its own citizens, then I guess his project to screen LC 3 to mainstream theatres is suicide.

If this was trully a nazi "police-state" as they believe, he'd be dead by now.

I often say that to people about Michael Moore's situation...if the US was really a police state, by now Moore's body would have been found dumped in a trash can in Flint, Michigan, a knife stuck in his ribs and his wallet and credit cards scattered around the garbage can, victim of an apparent mugging. How sad, how cruel, how tragic. Flint is certainly a violent city. We honor the memory of Michael Moore as a satirist and filmmaker, send flowers to his funeral, and wish his widow well...and back to work, everybody, like Mindszenty...

Or these conspiracy theorists would be standing show trial, like the Stalinist Purges...

Or they would have disappeared under "Night and Fog" emergency decrees to unnamed prisons...

Or simply been shot after summary court-martial.

Instead they're making appearances, book deals, film deals, running websites, and being interviewed by the press...:boggled:

[Kiwiwriter]

The question is not about him acquiescing to the act, but about him (and the other people involved) accepting to be slurred by halwits who try to make a name for themselves through wild accusations.

I imagine that if Rudy Giuliani met one of these accusers face to face, and that accuser said, "Hey, Rudy, you covered up the government conspiracy on 9/11," Rudy would deck him.

Like Buzz Aldrin and the moon hoax guy a few years ago. I think Jim Lovell did the same thing. :)

[60hzxtl]

Where is Dylan from anyway? Its sure as [rule8] ain't New York.


Oneonta, NY 13820

A clever person could find out his actual address, and phone number with a simple search. But that would violate some rules around here.


BTW: home base for "Like, hey man, Dylan" still states this -


Our website will return as soon as possible.


And when I read this quote Delphi provided above:

"I lost the Green nominating convention to Howie Hawkins, a co-founder of the Green Party, a teamster. . . "

I realized where all the gold in all the trucks went.

[Brainster]

Looking through my notes, I realized I had never posted this. It's always nice to wake up spitting mad. I am going to do my very best to make an honest man out of this *^#$&*%%#%*&()&$)*&^$@@$%#$!$#@$^%$# called Dylan Avery.

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.

Excerpts


LOL! He doesn't have too many delusions of grandeur! When asked what was the most egregious and obvious piece of evidence he cites the collapse of WTC 7. But as usual he can't go ten seconds without lying (at about 6:58):

"I mean, One Liberty Plaza was right underneath the South Tower, and that building just basically stood, standing, virtually intact, I mean granted there was some damage from the collapse but I mean the building itself didn't fall."

Okay, that's pretty easy to check with a site plan of WTC complex. And looking at it, it's obvious that Dylan's lying through his teeth. In fact it appears to me that every single square inch of WTC 7 is closer to the North Tower than any part of One Liberty Plaza is to the South Tower.

Still can't post URLs (couple more posts to go), but I'll put up a post on screw loose change in a couple hours.

It's stuff like this that makes me wonder about Dylan. We can't really call him a "Truther" since he lies pathologically. There really are three possibilities here:

1. He lies because it's in service to a higher truth. The most charitable explanation.

2. He lies because he's a charlatan selling a DVD.

3. He lies because he's a plant by "them" to discredit the Truthers.

I'm actually beginning to lean towards door #3, because the lies are so obvious that it's hard to argue that they serve #1 or #2 well. But of course #3 would mean that there really is a conspiracy. Okay, so it's the snake oil salesman, just a really incompetent snake oil salesman.

Thanks for pointing that interview out, Gravy!

[kookbreaker]

More importantly, this theory would suggest that Rudy Giuliani, mayor of New York, would acquiesce to the murder of 343 firefighters and 23 police officers, including the Fire Department Chief, the head Chaplain, and numerous other high-ranking fire officers. And then stand there and lie through his teeth about it for five years.



In the trepaned, fantasy world of the Loosers, the pre-9-11 dialogue goes like this:

Republican Masters: Rudy, we need to do something in your city.
RG: What is thy bidding, my master.
RM: We wish to blow up the two largest buildings and kill a large number of people.
RG: Would that bring suspicion on all of us?
RM: No, we will make it look like a terrorist act. You may lose a lot of firemen by the way.
RG: Such is the price.
RM: Good thing we got a Republican mayor in place in time, I was worried the explosives we built into the WTC towers was going to rot.


In reality, any such conversation would go like this:

Republican Masters: Rudy, we need to do something in your city.
RG: You want to have another convention here? Cool! That'd be great!
RM: We wish to blow up the two largest buildings and kill a large number of people.
RG: You want to... what?! You want to blow up my town? You want to kill my citizens?! Are you nuts?!
RM: Its OK. We will make it look like a terrorist act.
RG: It is f[rule8]ing not 'OK'. Oh, man, you are giong down. I am going to make certain you are giong down hard!
RM: Errr, uhm, and errr, umm...some firefighters might also be killed in the process.
RG: Say what?
RM: Like a few.....hundred
RG: That does it.
RM: Its for a good cause! We need a thing called a 'Patriot Act'...I think...or maybe a pipeline in Afganistan?..maybe?
RG: That's it. I'm getting the Fire Department, I'm getting the Police Department. The heck with you going 'down'. We're heading down there and we're bringing axes, shovels, and baseball bats. We're going to break your skull, we gonna break your familys' skulls, we're going to break your friends' skulls, we're going to break the skull's of people you've stood next to, we're gonna break the skulls of people who look like you! We're gonna...

<3 hours of broken skulls, burning houses, and various insertions described>

RM: I get the feeling you are not with the program, Rudy.

[Flo]

You have to remember that "True Believers" of all stripes, particularly conspiracy theorists and extremists, have an exaggerated sense of self-importance and an utter lack of a sense of humor. They believe they are bringing the truth to the world, and that everyone in the world should agree with them and fall behind in ranks in their army of the just cause.

Oh I know, I know ... I was posting from experience.



Study how folks in the mainstream put up with the jibes of Jay Leno, David Letterman, and other comedians.

Over here, celebrities and politicians are judging their popularity by the number of their appearances in the puppet show "Les Guignols de l'Info" (http://www.canalplus.fr/pid577.htm)

[Hellbound]

Yea yea. It's just too much fun to be mean to Dan Brown.

To be fair, there is one exciting Dan Brown novel.

And he changes character names, place names, puts a new title on it, and sells it over and over...

:)

I read one of his spy novels first (Decption Point, IIRC). Had no idea about the others. Not a masterpiece by any means, but readable. A good waste of time.

Then I read another of his spy novels (can't recall the name, dealth with the CIA and a quantum computer, I think), and it was the exact same plot, with the same plot twist, just different names. Even the main character was identical except for minor details. It was cookie-cutter.

The other works pretty well follow suit. Whoever starts the main character on his quest/mission/whatever is the bad guy, pretty much garaunteed.

[realitybites]

New guy here. I know this is kinda' way off-topic, but I was curious to know if anyone here is planning on being at Ground Zero for the anniversary. I saw DylanCo there last year and I know they'll be there again this year.

Was wondering if a group of sane individuals would be interested in debunking them in person. Obviously the memorial service takes precedence and I wouldn't want to do anything to disrupt it, but I'm tired of these people going unchallenged and handing out their s*** to people who just don't know any better. Especially at Ground Zero on 9/11....

I haven't read through each and every thread here, so I apologize if this has already been brought up (but if so, I'd like to be in on it).

[Brainster]

Oneonta, NY 13820

A clever person could find out his actual address, and phone number with a simple search. But that would violate some rules around here.



The address for the DVDs was Oneonta as well, but I saw a recent interview where Dylan mentioned moving to DC in 2004.

[Kiwiwriter]

They claim to believe this, but they don't act like it. It's some kind of weird pseudo-belief.

What you have to remember is that the conspiracy theorist lives in a world of exaggerating his own sense of self-importance. That is a big key to their behavior. They are convinced that they are more important than they are, and try to build up that importance, when in actuality, they have none whatsoever.

Just as importantly, they cannot blame themselves -- because of that sense of self-importance, ego, and True Belief -- for their failures and inabilities to succeed in life (let alone be appointed Emperor of the World). So the reason they didn't get the job, win the girl, or get their idiotic theory on ABC primetime is not because their ideas and behavior are ludicrous beyond words, but because the great conspiracy that opposes them has taken action through its nefarious and hidden hand.

I think my favorite comment on this subject came 24 years ago, when a guy in New York named William Depperman was posting massive posters with typewritten 12-point letters, about how everything, including some rock groups, karate movies, and transit union bigwigs, were controlled by the CIA. I'd read the posters while I waited for traffic lights to change, and remember that one of them complained about how when Depperman planned a demonstration against whatever was annoying him (graffiti charges, I think), "it rained!!" He followed that with, "The US government admitted to seeding clouds to create rain during the Vietnam War."

So his grandiose theory was that the US government, seeing this one-man party as a threat to its survival, was wasting vast amounts of money deliberately starting thunderstorms in New York, to prevent him from holding a demonstration.

And of course, it was too hard for him to simply hold up an umbrella or stand under an awning.

But what it really meant was, "Nobody showed up at my stupid demonstration, and I can't blame myself, because I'm the most important thing in the universe, so it has to be the nefarious workings of the evildoers who are out to make my life miserable."

Depperman wound up standing trial for the postering. Mayor Koch saw his posters from his limo, was irritated, and the anti-graffiti squad put in a couple of undercovers. They pretended to join his party, helped him slap up a poster, then arrested him. After paying his fine, Depperman fled to Vermont, and was never heard from again.

I know about the latter because the posters and Depperman got written up in the Village Voice and the New York Times.

So creating a viciou

[kookbreaker]

Welcome to the forum, RealityBites.

Gravy and Manny did confront Dyaln & company at the premier of Flight 93. Dylan spat a lot and cried 'government agent' a whole lot, but not much else.

[CptColumbo]

Just talked with Universal and Warner Bros. by phone about the use of their footage in LC. They will look into it. Should I steer them towards the Naudet's lawyers, or would they be unable to discuss the case?

[CptColumbo]

Welcome to the forum, RealityBites.

Gravy and Manny did confront Dyaln & company at the premier of Flight 93. Dylan spat a lot and cried 'government agent' a whole lot, but not much else.

Be sure to bring a video camera next time. If you didn't the first time.

[delphi_ote]

Here is a new edition of Loose Change:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZGscWP5Osw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eizeIjRaV-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlTFcXfx5_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EoIezeihoM

The debunking edition, "lol Loose Change!" It makes liberal use of our friend Gravy's work. The young man who put it together contacted me to let you guys know what he's done. It was a one man project for a couple of days, and I think he did a good job just putting all the information on top of the film considering that kind of time frame and man power.

Now if only we could get it to show up as a related movie to Loose Change on youtube...

ETA One stop shopping: http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

[60hzxtl]

Welcome Realitybites,

I've worked the memorial every year since at St. Paul's, but looks like this year I will not.

Be wary of the confrontation idea, lest it be construed to be an incitement to riot.

Reading back on the long trail here, you'll see that Gravy & Manny did just that at the flt 93 screenings. (Hats off to you guys!)

Remember, arguing with these guys is like putting a hat on a pig. It's still a pig.

[Kiwiwriter]

In the trepaned, fantasy world of the Loosers, the pre-9-11 dialogue goes like this:

Republican Masters: Rudy, we need to do something in your city.
RG: What is thy bidding, my master.
RM: We wish to blow up the two largest buildings and kill a large number of people.
RG: Would that bring suspicion on all of us?
RM: No, we will make it look like a terrorist act. You may lose a lot of firemen by the way.
RG: Such is the price.
RM: Good thing we got a Republican mayor in place in time, I was worried the explosives we built into the WTC towers was going to rot.


In reality, any such conversation would go like this:

Republican Masters: Rudy, we need to do something in your city.
RG: You want to have another convention here? Cool! That'd be great!
RM: We wish to blow up the two largest buildings and kill a large number of people.
RG: You want to... what?! You want to blow up my town? You want to kill my citizens?! Are you nuts?!
RM: Its OK. We will make it look like a terrorist act.
RG: It is f[rule8]ing not 'OK'. Oh, man, you are giong down. I am going to make certain you are giong down hard!
RM: Errr, uhm, and errr, umm...some firefighters might also be killed in the process.
RG: Say what?
RM: Like a few.....hundred
RG: That does it.
RM: Its for a good cause! We need a thing called a 'Patriot Act'...I think...or maybe a pipeline in Afganistan?..maybe?
RG: That's it. I'm getting the Fire Department, I'm getting the Police Department. The heck with you going 'down'. We're heading down there and we're bringing axes, shovels, and baseball bats. We're going to break your skull, we gonna break your familys' skulls, we're going to break your friends' skulls, we're going to break the skulls of people you've stood next to, we're gonna break the skulls of people who look like you! We're gonna...

<3 hours of broken skulls, burning houses, and various insertions described>

RM: I get the feeling you are not with the program, Rudy.


You only left out, in the first part, the conversation being part of a Masonic-Trilateralist-Jewish ritual.

Anyway, the second conversation would likely end with them having to whack Rudy, Donna Hanover, and Judith Nathan, too. Or at least revealing Rudy's baldness. And there's be a lot more dirtier words than you would have. These are New Yorkers, remember. :)

[Kiwiwriter]

Oh I know, I know ... I was posting from experience.





Over here, celebrities and politicians are judging their popularity by the number of their appearances in the puppet show "Les Guignols de l'Info" (http://www.canalplus.fr/pid577.htm)

Quite right...I just felt like adding that for the benefit of anybody passing through who might NOT know it.

I also have an irritating habit of answering all questions put to me in full. Dates back to my school days. I still think all questions can be answered by "pencils down."

[realitybites]

Thanks Kook. I wouldn't mind making them cry and spit at the anniversary either. I do understand that "fighting" them could be construed as validating their theories, but it's just scary to me how this stuff seems to be catching on.

[Brainster]

New guy here. I know this is kinda' way off-topic, but I was curious to know if anyone here is planning on being at Ground Zero for the anniversary. I saw DylanCo there last year and I know they'll be there again this year.

Was wondering if a group of sane individuals would be interested in debunking them in person. Obviously the memorial service takes precedence and I wouldn't want to do anything to disrupt it, but I'm tired of these people going unchallenged and handing out their s*** to people who just don't know any better. Especially at Ground Zero on 9/11....

I haven't read through each and every thread here, so I apologize if this has already been brought up (but if so, I'd like to be in on it).

Hi RB, we have a guy who's been talking about trying to organize a counter-demo. Send me an email at screwloose[at]cdwebs[dot]com and I'll see about putting you two together.

[CptColumbo]

Hi RB, we have a guy who's been talking about trying to organize a counter-demo. Send me an email at screwloose@cdwebs.com and I'll see about putting you two together.
Just one more post and you can post links on your own, congratulations!

[realitybites]

Hi RB, we have a guy who's been talking about trying to organize a counter-demo. Send me an email at screwloose[at]cdwebs[dot]com and I'll see about putting you two together.

Thanks Brainster. I think I am that guy though. :) If I'm correct, I just sent one of you guys an email last night with a possible idea of a handout that could be distributed?

[Flo]

Quite right...I just felt like adding that for the benefit of anybody passing through who might NOT know it.

Those who may have been confused by my English must be thankful too ;)

[60hzxtl]

Just talked with Universal and Warner Bros. by phone about the use of their footage in LC. They will look into it. Should I steer them towards the Naudet's lawyers, or would they be unable to discuss the case?


Why not! Pile on guys!

Geeze, I can't believe I'm cheering on a lawyer. . .

[CptColumbo]

Those who may have been confused by my English must be thankful too ;)

It is much better than my french.

Three years of High School French, and all I can do is ask how Jean-Paul is.

I always wanted to go back to France and take an English course, and blow them away with how fluent I was.

[60hzxtl]

Here is a new edition of Loose Change:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZGscWP5Osw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eizeIjRaV-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlTFcXfx5_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EoIezeihoM

The debunking edition, "lol Loose Change!" It makes liberal use of our friend Gravy's work. The young man who put it together contacted me to let you guys know what he's done. It was a one man project for a couple of days, and I think he did a good job just putting all the information on top of the film considering that kind of time frame and man power.

Now if only we could get it to show up as a related movie to Loose Change on youtube...

ETA One stop shopping: http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/



BRAVO! I knew this was a quick and easy answer.


Nice work!

[Pardalis]

Three years of High School French, and all I can do is ask how Jean-Paul is.

I'm afraid he passed away.:(

[realitybites]

Three years of High School French, and all I can do is ask how Jean-Paul is.


Try 4 years of Latin.... Cornelia sub arbore sedet.

Huge hit at parties, that one.

[CptColumbo]

I'm afraid he passed away.:(

NON! Mon Dieu! I should send his wife a card. Last time I asked him he said he was good. Probably the only thing he knew how to say in French.

[60hzxtl]

The address for the DVDs was Oneonta as well, but I saw a recent interview where Dylan mentioned moving to DC in 2004.


Yes, but the Oneonta address is from the lawyers. They know the principle address; where the person lives in order to serve him.

All I did was go to "like, hey man Dylan's" site and look at it - he was dumb enough to put it up there unredactid.

[Belz...]

Yea yea. It's just too much fun to be mean to Dan Brown.

http://www.bookreporter.com/authors/au-brown-dan.asp

http://www.bookreporter.com/authors/au-brown-dan.asp

:rolleyes:

I... see your point.

[Belz...]

This is inevitable. These bastards can't hide behind the first amendment forever. I really hope they'll be brought to justice. Avery is clearly accusing people of murder. This trash is just unacceptable.

I'm surprised this wasn't done already, in fact.

[Belz...]

Hitler and Stalin could do that. I don't think Rudy Giuliani could sleep at night after supporting and condoning such an act.

Well.. at least Hitler thought his victims were sub-human. Not sure how that would work for Mr. Mayor.

[Drysdale]

Hello all.

New guy here, I've been a Randi fan for awhile and read the weekly articles for 5 yrs or more probably I think, but have never visited the boards till about a month ago roughly after my wife watched a supposed documentary on the
9-11 conspiracy. She recorded it and I started watching it but just could'nt take it. Guess I'm too skepitcal when there's a lot of leading questions involved like, looks like it could be explosions, does'nt look like it should do this
etc,etc,etc. Soo, I came to the board to see if there was a topic and lo and behold I found this monster. Took me about a week to catch up and now I drop by here every day. You guys are on top of it with more knowledge than I could've asked for. Great rebuttals to the conpiracists and that was a excellent debunking of that cockamamie film Gravy.

Someone else touched on it earlier about the interview with Damion, er, I mean Dylan and beat me to it about all the imagining.

Only thing he left out was "I'd like to imagine there is a conspiracy" which pretty much wraps it all up.
I thought about posting on the loser change site but I'd get banned anyway so what's the point really.

Anyway, you guys are doing a great job and I have this thought that's occured to me that maybe can be bounced around.

If Gore would have won the presidency instead of Bush would the losers still be pursuing this? There seems to be a lot of consipatorial references to the Bush regime as a whole. Dont want to detract from the topic at hand but this has occured to me. What's your view on that?

And without getting into my political views I'm not a Bush fan or apologist so let me get that out of the way before I get attacked for being one.

[Manny]

If Gore would have won the presidency instead of Bush would the losers still be pursuing this? There seems to be a lot of consipatorial references to the Bush regime as a whole. Dont want to detract from the topic at hand but this has occured to me. What's your view on that?Oh sure. Some of the actors would be different but the stories would be much the same -- Part of the Clinton Death Conspiracy, part of the permanent goverment (Gore's father was also a Senator), Vice President Lieberman is a jooooo, &ct. &ct. &ct. Remember that around 2000 there were conspiracy theories that Clinton was going to prolong his stay in office by declaring a national emergency and Wal*Mart Trucks were carrying the signs to impose it (http://www.snopes.com/legal/martial.htm), yadda yadda yadda.


ETA: Welcome to the forums!

[Belz...]

Like Buzz Aldrin and the moon hoax guy a few years ago.

Pure classic moment.

So his grandiose theory was that the US government, seeing this one-man party as a threat to its survival, was wasting vast amounts of money deliberately starting thunderstorms in New York, to prevent him from holding a demonstration.

And of course, it was too hard for him to simply hold up an umbrella or stand under an awning.

But what it really meant was, "Nobody showed up at my stupid demonstration, and I can't blame myself, because I'm the most important thing in the universe, so it has to be the nefarious workings of the evildoers who are out to make my life miserable."

Well, most people, I think, tend to see themselves as the center of everything because, as Interesting Ian would probably tell you, they ARE the center of their universe. There's a fine line, I suppose, between perceiving yourself as the center and confusing that perception with reality.

I know about the latter because the posters and Depperman got written up in the Village Voice and the New York Times.

So creating a viciou

Kiwi ?? Oh NO! They GOT HIM!

[realitybites]

If Gore would have won the presidency instead of Bush would the losers still be pursuing this? There seems to be a lot of consipatorial references to the Bush regime as a whole. Dont want to detract from the topic at hand but this has occured to me. What's your view on that?

And without getting into my political views I'm not a Bush fan or apologist so let me get that out of the way before I get attacked for being one.

Welcome Drys. Lots of "new blood" today.

My personal take on the politics of Dylan and LC is that they just don't trust government in general. If Amerikkka did it, it must be bad. He's stated that OK City and the 93 WTC bombing were all inside jobs and they happened on Clinton's watch, so I doubt it's a Democrat/Republican thing with him.

Of course, I guess it's always possible that the Bush family controlled the Clintons.

[chipmunk stew]

Here is a new edition of Loose Change:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZGscWP5Osw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eizeIjRaV-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlTFcXfx5_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EoIezeihoM

The debunking edition, "lol Loose Change!" It makes liberal use of our friend Gravy's work. The young man who put it together contacted me to let you guys know what he's done. It was a one man project for a couple of days, and I think he did a good job just putting all the information on top of the film considering that kind of time frame and man power.

Now if only we could get it to show up as a related movie to Loose Change on youtube...

ETA One stop shopping: http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/ Awesome! MarkyX, come register here so we can give you a big hug.

[Stellafane]

...If Gore would have won the presidency instead of Bush would the losers still be pursuing this?

Yes, only the conspiracy talk would be occurring in congressional subcommittees chaired by Republicans, and special prosecuters with unlimited budgets, and darkly hinted by the likes of Pat Buchanan, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill O'Reilley.

There, I've said it...

[dubfan]

If Gore would have won the presidency instead of Bush would the losers still be pursuing this? There seems to be a lot of consipatorial references to the Bush regime as a whole. Dont want to detract from the topic at hand but this has occured to me. What's your view on that?


There would've been 9/11 CTs no matter what, IMO.

What I think has happened with respect to Bush, is that the very polarized nature of politics right now has made this CT particularly virulent, because it is attracting people who despise Bush and basically believe any sort of bad charge thrown against him. The soil is fertile -- partly because of the Bush admin's own actions -- and there are people desperately eager to believe it (because believing Bush is actually acting in good faith makes many of them very uncomfortable indeed).

I think we're in a "perfect storm" environment for a conspiracy theory:

1. Arguably the most publicized event in modern history
2. Lots of material available on it -- video, testimony, reports, etc.
3. Very strong emotional context and emotional reactions on all sides
4. A contested election, divisive politics, an unpopular war
5. An administration characterized by secrecy, deeply mistrusted by many
6. Technology -- popularity of internet video, viral marketing, Google, availability of cheap video production software

In other words, this is basically Glenn Reynolds' "Army of Davids" phenomenon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595550542/102-7584181-5170544?v=glance&n=283155) being acted out pathologically.

[Belz...]

It is much better than my french.

Three years of High School French, and all I can do is ask how Jean-Paul is.

I learned English by watching television. Mainly Star Trek. Go figure.

[Belz...]

Hello all.

Welcome, welcome, good sir. Step forward and marvel at our show!!

Only thing he left out was "I'd like to imagine there is a conspiracy" which pretty much wraps it all up.

Yeah, that did it for me, too.

I thought about posting on the loser change site but I'd get banned anyway so what's the point really.

Making yourself heard. These guys keep talking about freedom. Make sure you show them freedom of speech.

[Brainster]

Yes, but the Oneonta address is from the lawyers. They know the principle address; where the person lives in order to serve him.

All I did was go to "like, hey man Dylan's" site and look at it - he was dumb enough to put it up there unredactid.

That's probably the address of LTW's statutory agent (usually a lawyer), assuming that they actually went to the time and expense of incorporation.

[60hzxtl]

That's probably the address of LTW's statutory agent (usually a lawyer), assuming that they actually went to the time and expense of incorporation.


Remember what I said about a clever person finding this?

All I did was plug the zip code + Avery into whitepages on line.

Pretty good! Has a phone number too. Didn't need the patriot act.

Took about 12 secs.

See? 'like. hey man Dylan" is right - he is on a list somewhere!

[ZouPrime]

I learned English by watching television. Mainly Star Trek. Go figure.
Heh. I did the exact same thing. I watched ST:TNG on american channels, one hour a night for years. Ah, the memories...

[Belz...]

Heh. I did the exact same thing. I watched ST:TNG on american channels, one hour a night for years. Ah, the memories...

Make it so.

[Belz...]

See? 'like. hey man Dylan" is right - he is on a list somewhere!

Why in blazes do you call him that ? Personally, I'd call him "I, mean, Dylan" or something.

[dubfan]

"An hour long smorgasbord of content from Louder Than Words" (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1840058038507754977)

Dylan's comments (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5317&view=findpost&p=4946179):

Just wanted to bump chipmunk's post here...surprised there wasn't more comment on it. This seems to be a preview of what's coming in LC3. Dylan's disclaiming that of course, but it shows the direction I think they're headed -- more eyewitness accounts, more interviews with people, and avoiding the more obvious manipulations that got him into such trouble with Gravy. He is also steadfastly repeating the same lies that have been debunked here over and over and over again ("molten steel" supposedly causing the collapse, AA77 disappearing into an opening merely 16ft wide, etc.)

[delphi_ote]

Just wanted to bump chipmunk's post here...surprised there wasn't more comment on it. This seems to be a preview of what's coming in LC3. Dylan's disclaiming that of course, but it shows the direction I think they're headed -- more eyewitness accounts, more interviews with people, and avoiding the more obvious manipulations that got him into such trouble with Gravy. He is also steadfastly repeating the same lies that have been debunked here over and over and over again ("molten steel" supposedly causing the collapse, AA77 disappearing into an opening merely 16ft wide, etc.)
From the video (13:10 in) "There's a lot of this information that has been suppressed by the American public."

WE'RE ALL A PART OF THE CONSPIRACY!!!
:dl:

ETA Look how cocky he is in that section. That's definitely a weak spot for this movement. Being humble and gracious at any event where we're trying to counter them would go a long way toward winning people over. Watch how he acts around that lady. If you came up to her and confirmed her skepticism with facts, I think she'd be relieved and happy to talk more. Gravy, what was your experience with such things?

[Hutch]

From over at Loose Change (skeptics subforum, I'll try and get the link)

quoted from jenabell:
As for my target.....it is you , I believe you are from JREF, I believe you post there on a regular basis, and I believe you are one of the many that have come here as team JREF ninja wave. All you guys are way to obsessed, give it a rest now soldier.

bolding and italics mine.

Isn't Team JREF Ninja Wave just the most wonderful thing you have ever heard? Sorta like the Mighty Morphim Power Rangers of Skepticism.

Just had to share that one.

ediited to add link--go to page 3: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4970

[realitybites]

Whoever did the I Got Banned From The Loose Change Forum badge, could we maybe get one indicating "Proud Member of Team JREF Ninja Wave"?

I'd even buy a t-shirt that said something along those lines.

[bob_kark]

Just wanted to bump chipmunk's post here...surprised there wasn't more comment on it. This seems to be a preview of what's coming in LC3. Dylan's disclaiming that of course, but it shows the direction I think they're headed -- more eyewitness accounts, more interviews with people, and avoiding the more obvious manipulations that got him into such trouble with Gravy. He is also steadfastly repeating the same lies that have been debunked here over and over and over again ("molten steel" supposedly causing the collapse, AA77 disappearing into an opening merely 16ft wide, etc.)

I'm still laughing about the fact that the Milk Challenge: Attempt to drink one gallon of milk in one hour... (AND the sequels!) are somehow related to this film. I think I'll have to watch that when I'm done.

ETA: Is it just me or is the guy at the beginning of the film with the brown suit and glasses having a seizure or is it just me? His head starts moving around so fast, I expected it to fall off.

[chipmunk stew]

From over at Loose Change (skeptics subforum, I'll try and get the link)

quoted from jenabell:


bolding and italics mine.

Isn't Team JREF Ninja Wave just the most wonderful thing you have ever heard? Sorta like the Mighty Morphim Power Rangers of Skepticism.

Just had to share that one.

ediited to add link--go to page 3: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4970 w00t! Time for a new title...

[Ramooone]

i love the claim that a jet didnt hit the WTC when on their own conspiracy websites it shows pics of the hull of the plane
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/photos/hullpiece.html

they love the scholars for 9/11 truth. look at this looneytoon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Pierre_Petit

he's one of their scholars hahahaha

[delphi_ote]

If Gore would have won the presidency instead of Bush would the losers still be pursuing this? There seems to be a lot of consipatorial references to the Bush regime as a whole. Dont want to detract from the topic at hand but this has occured to me. What's your view on that?
I don't think it would matter. When you're writing fiction, it doesn't really matter which characters you use. The same exact nuts would have made the same exact films. The only reason this is gaining traction lately with more reasonable people is Bush's unpopularity. There are legitimate reasons to criticize the president. Mastermining the 9/11 attacks is not one of them.
And without getting into my political views I'm not a Bush fan or apologist so let me get that out of the way before I get attacked for being one.
Nor am I, but there are people in this thread from the left and right. We save our squabbles for the political section of the forum. Everyone can agree lying about what happened that day is wrong wrong wrong.

[delphi_ote]

Is it just me or is the guy at the beginning of the film with the brown suit and glasses having a seizure or is it just me? His head starts moving around so fast, I expected it to fall off.
What a great way to begin your film, guys. With a paranoid lunatic talking about being infiltrated from the inside and apparently having a seizure on camera. Really lends credibility to what's to come. :rolleyes:

[azazal]

Quick and dirty, but had to be done

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/azazal/Misc/Ninjawave.jpg

[bob_kark]

Quick and dirty, but had to be done

Oh, that's glorious!

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Looking through my notes, I realized I had never posted this. It's always nice to wake up spitting mad. I am going to do my very best to make an honest man out of this *^#$&*%%#%*&()&$)*&^$@@$%#$!$#@$^%$# called Dylan Avery.

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.
http://www.theedgeam.com/interviews/audiofiles.htm
Excerpts

)(&*^$$#$*&)*)^#&^$%*)(*^%#@^@#!$#&^^(&_#&_((I&&^%$()(*$%$@!##!%@$^$%##^&*%()*(^&^%^)()*+)(&%^%$@%*(^
:mad:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/8790447edad57b528.jpg

Good lord, I think my retinas just melted.

BTW, does anyone else find it rather extraordinary that they were able to identify the woman(?) in that picture as well as be able to determine that she had no first or second degree burns from being too close to a major fire?

If Avery trully believes his government is able and willing to kill 3,000 of its own citizens, then I guess his project to screen LC 3 to mainstream theatres is suicide.

If this was trully a nazi "police-state" as they believe, he'd be dead by now.

Actually, I think Dylan's right (for just once). It'd be too risky for the MIBs to kill him. But that doesn't mean that he can't be dealt with.

Just have a guy drop off a couple kilo bags of marijuana in his apartment while he's at one of his fancy moonbat screening parties and then have the cops waiting for him with a search warrant when he gets back.

Author of paranoid conspiracy theory busted for drug possesion... it would suprise no one. While he wouldn't "disappear" in the traditional X-Files sense, he would drop out of the public eye and be forgotten about while he does his ten years for trafficking. I mean come on, a liberal minded New Yorker in his early 20s? He probably has enough ganja in his appartment as it is to make planting extra stuff redundant.

Or better yet, the conspirators could arrange for Dylan to recieve a grant for LC3 from what turns out under investigation to be a front company for the Bin Ladens or Hamas or Hizbollah.

[XXX]

Here is a new edition of Loose Change:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZGscWP5Osw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eizeIjRaV-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlTFcXfx5_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EoIezeihoM

The debunking edition, "lol Loose Change!" It makes liberal use of our friend Gravy's work. The young man who put it together contacted me to let you guys know what he's done. It was a one man project for a couple of days, and I think he did a good job just putting all the information on top of the film considering that kind of time frame and man power.

Now if only we could get it to show up as a related movie to Loose Change on youtube...

ETA One stop shopping: http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/


I see that he mentions 911 myths and screw loose change in the beginning, but no mention of Gravy? He needs some credit as well.

[senorpogo]

they love the scholars for 9/11 truth. look at this looneytoon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Pierre_Petit


"And he claims that the US military has a powerful antimatter bomb that they successfully detonated on planet Jupiter"

Forget thermite.
I think I've got a new explanation for the contolled demolition conspiracy theory!

[chipmunk stew]

I see that he mentions 911 myths and screw loose change in the beginning, but no mention of Gravy? He needs some credit as well.He mentions "Loose Change 2nd Edition Viewer Guide" in the text just before the url's are shown. He didn't give the url for the Gravy guide, but fortunately, if you search for it in google, it comes up right at the top.

[XXX]

He mentions "Loose Change 2nd Edition Viewer Guide" in the text just before the url's are shown. He didn't give the url for the Gravy guide, but fortunately, if you search for it in google, it comes up right at the top.

Ok cool, I must have just missed it. watching part 2 right now, much of this is straight out of Gravy's guide.

[kookbreaker]

BTW, does anyone else find it rather extraordinary that they were able to identify the woman(?) in that picture as well as be able to determine that she had no first or second degree burns from being too close to a major fire?


She was identified by her husband, IIRC. The pics just aren't detailed enough for any signs of singing or ligth burns. I expect the ghouls at Loose Change wouldn't be happy unless she was burnt to a cinder.

They conveniently ignore all the people who jumped from the tower. Obviously they were trying to get away from the fire that was not there.

[bob_kark]

Ok, I finally finished watching it. Actually, it was pretty good. Unfortunately, he did end up throwing up, so the challenge was lost. It looks like he was drinking skim milk, I would have made sure it was whole. Skim just isn't the same. Also, there are only so many slow motion shots of milk vomiting that I can take before I get a bit bored. Here's hoping the sequels fare better.

Oh, I almost forgot, the Louder Than Words film was a steaming pile of dung. Maybe next time, milk chugging. Just a suggestion, feel free to do with it what you wish.

[chipmunk stew]

Quick and dirty, but had to be done

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/azazal/Misc/Ninjawave.jpg Oh, that's beautiful. Hutch, do you dare post this on that LC thread?

[60hzxtl]

Why in blazes do you call him that ? Personally, I'd call him "I, mean, Dylan" or something.


Sorry, I was refering to "like, hey man, Dylan" based on an interview.

He has his image all made up to be a feeeeeeumlmmmm director, sunglasses on head, far away look, hip, living- in- the- basement -of- mom's- house -but- just -for- now, day old stubble cause I was up all night searching of the truth, look.

But hey, you were just asking questions, so here's one of mine:

What do you know about blazes?

[Ramooone]

im sure you guys have seen this already
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1840058038507754977
loose change 3 preview

not only is this a bunch of crap, but, looking at this from a filmmaker standpoint its TERRIBLE! worst lighting, editing and sound ever. he thinks this is going to get into theaters??? bwahahahahahaa.

if he wants to be taken seriously he can ditch his friends hip-hop soundtrack


p.s. i love how the air america station looks like a gym locker room.

[Kiwiwriter]

Hello all.

New guy here, I've been a Randi fan for awhile and read the weekly articles for 5 yrs or more probably I think, but have never visited the boards till about a month ago roughly after my wife watched a supposed documentary on the
9-11 conspiracy. She recorded it and I started watching it but just could'nt take it. Guess I'm too skepitcal when there's a lot of leading questions involved like, looks like it could be explosions, does'nt look like it should do this
etc,etc,etc. Soo, I came to the board to see if there was a topic and lo and behold I found this monster. Took me about a week to catch up and now I drop by here every day. You guys are on top of it with more knowledge than I could've asked for. Great rebuttals to the conpiracists and that was a excellent debunking of that cockamamie film Gravy.

Someone else touched on it earlier about the interview with Damion, er, I mean Dylan and beat me to it about all the imagining.

Only thing he left out was "I'd like to imagine there is a conspiracy" which pretty much wraps it all up.
I thought about posting on the loser change site but I'd get banned anyway so what's the point really.

Anyway, you guys are doing a great job and I have this thought that's occured to me that maybe can be bounced around.

If Gore would have won the presidency instead of Bush would the losers still be pursuing this? There seems to be a lot of consipatorial references to the Bush regime as a whole. Dont want to detract from the topic at hand but this has occured to me. What's your view on that?

And without getting into my political views I'm not a Bush fan or apologist so let me get that out of the way before I get attacked for being one.

Welcome aboard, Drysdale, and thanks for sharing your views.

As far as the Gore/Bush question goes, my view is that if Gore had presided over the same situation and scenario, he would have been hit with similar and different conspiracy theories from similar and different sides of the plate.

The right wing would probably accuse him (and Hillary Clinton) of continually weakening America's defenses. The left wing would blame the moneymen as before. The nutters would blame the Masons, Trilateralists, Jews, Warburgs, Rothschilds, World Wildlife Fund, Britain's Royal Family, etc., ad nauseum, as before...but connect the dots differently.

Instead of all this stuff about Halliburton and Bush's oil connections to the Saudis, we'd hear about Gore's business links and his connections to the Saudis or whoever. We might also hear that big business set it up to wreck Gore's environmentalist agenda.

But a lot of it would be similar. Remember that to conspiracy theorists, the events don't matter or really change. What matters is that there is a conspiracy, the same dark guiding hidden hands are running it, and all the outcomes are merely the planned unfolding of their conspiracy.

When the Soviet Union fell, ending 50 years of wacky alarmist rhetoric from the extreme right, a researcher asked Richard Girnt Butler what the collapse f the Soviet Union meant. Butler, head of Aryan Nations, shrugged and said, "They closed a branch office that wasn't doing too well." :boggled:

[Ramooone]

at minute 24:30 am i the only person who just wants to see someone run up and push them in the fountain?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

She was identified by her husband, IIRC. The pics just aren't detailed enough for any signs of singing or ligth burns.

My point exactly.

They conveniently ignore all the people who jumped from the tower. Obviously they were trying to get away from the fire that was not there.

Well, obviously the MIBs ran into a building they knew was wired to explode, managed to run past the firefighters ascending the stairwells without the firefirghters noticing and reporting it on thier radios, randomly pushed a dozen people out of windows and ran out again all in the hour or so window between the impacts and the collapses.

[Kiwiwriter]

Pure classic moment.



Well, most people, I think, tend to see themselves as the center of everything because, as Interesting Ian would probably tell you, they ARE the center of their universe. There's a fine line, I suppose, between perceiving yourself as the center and confusing that perception with reality.



Kiwi ?? Oh NO! They GOT HIM!

I have learned that my wife and daughter are the centers of the universe. In my daughter's case, she's kind of the center of her crew of friends, as she's the bossy type. However, she has learned not to just walk into a room and take over. She picks up the flow and organizes the existing activity.

It's wonderful for me to see how popular she is at age nine.

The Buzz Aldrin moment was beautiful. I believe he did slug the cameraman, and the judge threw the subsequent case out of court.

As for me being "got," no, that was just failing to delete a line during the writing and editing process. I didn't notice until after the note was posted. Such is life.

[60hzxtl]

And so it began. . .

http://hotair.com/archives/the-blog/2006/06/01/loose-change-remixed/

[Kiwiwriter]

From the video (13:10 in) "There's a lot of this information that has been suppressed by the American public."

WE'RE ALL A PART OF THE CONSPIRACY!!!
:dl:

ETA Look how cocky he is in that section. That's definitely a weak spot for this movement. Being humble and gracious at any event where we're trying to counter them would go a long way toward winning people over. Watch how he acts around that lady. If you came up to her and confirmed her skepticism with facts, I think she'd be relieved and happy to talk more. Gravy, what was your experience with such things?

The arrogance of these conspiracy theorists is one of their worst enemies. They behave condescendingly, and write off their opponents as enemies, and then trash them.

So I'm not surprised that this guy says, "We're all part of the conspiracy."

Yeah, I've been covering up my lousy math test scores for 25 years. :D

[Kiwiwriter]

Good lord, I think my retinas just melted.

Author of paranoid conspiracy theory busted for drug possesion... it would suprise no one. While he wouldn't "disappear" in the traditional X-Files sense, he would drop out of the public eye and be forgotten about while he does his ten years for trafficking. I mean come on, a liberal minded New Yorker in his early 20s? He probably has enough ganja in his appartment as it is to make planting extra stuff redundant.

Or better yet, the conspirators could arrange for Dylan to recieve a grant for LC3 from what turns out under investigation to be a front company for the Bin Ladens or Hamas or Hizbollah.

Actually, I remember that during the TWA Flight 900 fiasco, this clown on Long Island said the plane was shot down by a US Navy missile. Pierre Salinger picked this up and unlucky Pierre put it out on ABC and looked like a fool for doing so.

I got a few calls and e-mails on this (as I was a Navy PR man in New Zealand at the time) and my answer was, "No, we only shoot down Iranian airliners by mistake, not our own."

Then the Long Islander admitted he had made up this story "to give the US government a black eye by any means" because he was mad at them.

His grievance with Uncle Sam?

They wouldn't let him grow marijuana on his farm in Long Island.

I guess he grew some anyway.

[delphi_ote]

Ok cool, I must have just missed it. watching part 2 right now, much of this is straight out of Gravy's guide.
He's been very gracious and thankful to Gravy and the Screw Loose Change website. In fact, he's like a Gravy fanboy sometimes, always asking me to PM him and find out what he thinks. Mark just loved what everyone has done and wanted very badly to do his part.

[Pardalis]

Heh. I did the exact same thing. I watched ST:TNG on american channels, one hour a night for years. Ah, the memories...

LOL. Comme on se retrouve!

I learned English by watching "Perfect Strangers". Not sure Balki is a good reference tho...

[delphi_ote]

Quick and dirty, but had to be done

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/azazal/Misc/Ninjawave.jpg
I want that on a t-shirt.

Isn't it fromt he cover of a Choose Your Own Adventure book?

[azazal]

I want that on a t-shirt.

Isn't it fromt he cover of a Choose Your Own Adventure book?

Yes, yes it is, first ninja image on google that looked wavish

[delphi_ote]

Yes, yes it is, first ninja image on google that looked wavish
Why can I remember that obscure tidbit but not the name of the girl I went out to coffee with last Friday night?

[Pardalis]

ZouPrime, is it me or is the anti-American sentiment in Montréal a little extreme? I mean, it's impossible to have an intelligent un-biased conversation with anyone about 9/11 or the war in Iraq whithout people ranting anti-american propaganda. I just avoid the topic altogether now, I'm so fed up.

Is it just me?

BTW welcome to the forum.

ETA: I just noticed you joined the forum in '01. I should have said: "welcome to this thread".:D

[The_Fire]

Why can I remember that obscure tidbit but not the name of the girl I went out to coffee with last Friday night?

Thats easy: You're male......

[60hzxtl]

Thats easy: You're male......


Not only is the plumbing different, so is the wiring.

[Kiwiwriter]

Why can I remember that obscure tidbit but not the name of the girl I went out to coffee with last Friday night?

I forgot...what was your question again? :D

We all remember stuff that's really important to us. The girl you went to coffee with didn't make a big enough impression on your mind, so you don't remember her. On the other hand, the obscure tidbit resonated.

It takes a while to remember some things. I've been married 11 years, and I still can't get my wife's relatives straight. And these are not battleaxes, but warm, supportive folks, who have given us great dinners and Christmas cards.

[Stellafane]

Why can I remember that obscure tidbit but not the name of the girl I went out to coffee with last Friday night?

Because she was imaginary?

(Personally, when I was single I generally tended to remember the names of all my dates -- there really weren't all that many, so it wasn't hard to keep track.)

[azazal]

Why can I remember that obscure tidbit but not the name of the girl I went out to coffee with last Friday night?


[bad southern accent] I feel you pain [end accent] Back in college, could I remember what I had just read in my calculus book? Hell no. Could I remember a rule I read in a game book two years earlier, not a problem.

[JamesB]

Well he very politely mentions us, and at Screw Loose Change we give Gravy a plug every chance we get. Everyone builds off of the work of those that came before us.

[Pardalis]

[bad southern accent] I feel you pain [end accent] Back in college, could I remember what I had just read in my calculus book? Hell no. Could I remember a rule I read in a game book two years earlier, not a problem.

Reminds me of when I was a kid I wanted to be a zoologist. I read so much about animal species that I still remember everything today. It's really of no use to me now, but I'm unbeatable at Scrabble.

[Regnad Kcin]

From Gravy's transcript:

Dylan Avery: "People who attack my movie, they're not even attacking my movie, they're attacking me. There's this one, like, 50-page pdf file floating around out there, supposably [sic] debunking my entire movie, and the first three pages are basically just insulting me....These people have nothing to come back with., i mean, I'm giving you scientific, and, yo know, logic evidence, and these people are coming back with petty insults. I mean, think about that: I'm simply trying to ask honest questions of my government and why they're saying these things which obviously aren't true, and the best thing people can come up with is, 'Well, you're a stupid kid.'"

Daniel Ott: "That's not evidence."

Avery: "That's not evidence. That doesn't refute anything. It only makes my case stronger!"

Daniel Ott: "Yeah, sure does."
I wonder who fellated Mr. Avery more: Mr. Ott, or Mr. Avery.

Avery: "I mean, you have Edna Cintron, which is actually the woman who is looking out the gash in the World Trade Center. I mean, this woman is standing there, I mean, she's just looking out the hole, and I mean, there's supposedly 2,000 degree inferno right behind her, and, I mean, she's able to stand here and look out this hole and wave for help. I mean, her clothes aren't on fire, I mean, her clothes aren't even singed from what we can see."
I mean, it's like, y'know?

[60hzxtl]

From Gravy's transcript:


I wonder who fellated Mr. Avery more: Mr. Ott, or Mr. Avery.


I mean, it's like, y'know?

You are so mean.

[delphi_ote]

Thats easy: You're male......
No. I never remember anyone's name. I'm an equal opportunity jerk.

[CFLarsen]

Why can I remember that obscure tidbit but not the name of the girl I went out to coffee with last Friday night?
Fabricio.

[delphi_ote]

From Gravy's transcript:


I wonder who fellated Mr. Avery more: Mr. Ott, or Mr. Avery.


I mean, it's like, y'know?
I might be skeptical about the "kid" part, but there is plenty of evidence Dylan is stupid.

[delphi_ote]

Fabricio.
Thanks, Claus. I'll write it down on my hand, just in case I go out with her again.

[ZouPrime]

ZouPrime, is it me or is the anti-American sentiment in Montréal a little extreme? I mean, it's impossible to have an intelligent un-biased conversation with anyone about 9/11 or the war in Iraq whithout people ranting anti-american propaganda. I just avoid the topic altogether now, I'm so fed up.

Is it just me?

BTW welcome to the forum.

ETA: I just noticed you joined the forum in '01. I should have said: "welcome to this thread".:D

Thanks for the welcome. Yeah, I've been a member for a while, but I mostly lurk (and read Randi weekly comments). I mostly post on the Internet Infidel website, and I've participated in plenty of 9/11 conspiracy discussions over there.

About anti-americanism in Montreal... I don't know if it's worst than elsewhere in Canada, but obviously Quebec is a pretty liberal place and with the way the right has been running the US for a while now anti-american sentiment has to be expected... I don't know either if it's really anti-american or only anti-Bush.

Regarding 9/11, I was pretty amazed a few years ago when I found out that many of my close friends (who I think are pretty intelligent otherwise) were seriously considering conspiracy theories regarding the US implication in the attack. Back then their reference was l'Effroyable Imposture from that french guy... I don't know anymore what their stance is on the topic , as I try to stay away from this kind of discussion as much as I can. It is very, very hard to have a good exchange "in real life" compared to a discussion board like this one, as you can't check and provide references. And people tend to react violently when to try to tell them they simply are wrong. People discuss 9/11 conspiracies like they discuss if the habs are going to make the playoff or not; it's just, you know, opinion, and they have all the same value.

Most of my friends are left-wingers, and I myself don't like Bush very much, but I have to admit that idiocy isn't constrained by political affiliations, and both the lefties and righties have their fair share of twits who are ready to believe anything as long as it confirms their original beliefs...

[Brainster]

Just wanted to bump chipmunk's post here...surprised there wasn't more comment on it. This seems to be a preview of what's coming in LC3. Dylan's disclaiming that of course, but it shows the direction I think they're headed -- more eyewitness accounts, more interviews with people, and avoiding the more obvious manipulations that got him into such trouble with Gravy. He is also steadfastly repeating the same lies that have been debunked here over and over and over again ("molten steel" supposedly causing the collapse, AA77 disappearing into an opening merely 16ft wide, etc.)

I don't think he can really intend that to be anything really resembling the Final Cut--it's just stuff they're going to edit down and add to the 2nd Edition to make the final cut. I haven't got time to watch it all today, but I did skip ahead to the ending--Loose Change, Final Edition: American Theatres 9/11/06. GAH!

Also note that the Green Party Senate Candidate they interview, Sander Hicks, lost in the Green Primary. The guy's an absolute goof--watch him rock back and forth as he speaks. He cites Hopsicker, which is a huge red flag.

[delphi_ote]

Most of my friends are left-wingers, and I myself don't like Bush very much, but I have to admit that idiocy isn't constrained by political affiliations, and both the lefties and righties have their fair share of twits who are ready to believe anything as long as it confirms their original beliefs...
And oddly, this 9/11 conspiracy group seems to have a smattering of both sides. The rhetoric is very strange. They've got the militia types that thought Oklahoma City was a government conspiracy siding with the hippies who alledge Skull and Bones members eat babies. They call Bush a Nazi and implicate the Jews in the same breath. :confused:

[delphi_ote]

Also note that the Green Party Senate Candidate they interview, Sander Hicks, lost in the Green Primary.
Which means he's not what he's claiming to be. If I were a member of The Green Party, I'd be pissed.

[Kiwiwriter]

And oddly, this 9/11 conspiracy group seems to have a smattering of both sides. The rhetoric is very strange. They've got the militia types that thought Oklahoma City was a government conspiracy siding with the hippies who alledge Skull and Bones members eat babies. They call Bush a Nazi and implicate the Jews in the same breath. :confused:

Bear in mind that the Arabs have been doing that in their propaganda for many years, and increasingly so. Oddly enough, Western Holocaust deniers do the same thing...they claim Zionists supported Hitler and vice versa and that Hitler was pro-Jewish.

There's a really wacky web page called Iamthewitness.com that spouts much of this garbage, which leaves the intelligent reader with his or her jaw on the floor.

I can show other examples of this...Tom Metzger claiming that big corporations get their ideas from the Socialist Worker's Party, for example. There was a hilarious guy on The History Channel forums who went into 49 incarnations of the same name to say that Hitler was financed by Jewish bankers, and that capitalism funded and created Communism as part of a Jewish banker plot to rule the world. Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion on steroids. :boggled:

[Pardalis]

I don't know either if it's really anti-american or only anti-Bush.

People discuss 9/11 conspiracies like they discuss if the habs are going to make the playoff or not; it's just, you know, opinion, and they have all the same value.

Yeah, Bush really made a mess of people's view of America. The thing is when they talk against Bush, they don't necesserally say "Bush" but "Américains", as if all Americans agreed with him. There's even a new "trend" here these days (maybe you've noticed) to call Americans "États-Uniens", wich can't really be translated in English (maybe "United-Staters"???). As if Americans were guilty of stealing the word "America" (the continent). I find it particularly ridiculous.

I think the way these people are making this topic trivial makes intolerance towards Americans acceptable. This way it's slowly getting in our mores (even in the mainstream media), as if it was O.K. to talk against an entire people. Any intolerance towards any people should be inacceptable.

[XXX]

"An hour long smorgasbord of content from Louder Than Words" (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1840058038507754977)

Dylan's comments (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5317&view=findpost&p=4946179):

OK, just finished. THAT'S their new material huh? A lot of that was just them self promoting. Any one else think the scene with the woman at the bar reeks of being staged? Just asking questions...

Gotta love the guy in the beginning who's probably had about 15 cups of coffee, ranting away about the movement being infiltrated.

[XXX]

Well he very politely mentions us, and at Screw Loose Change we give Gravy a plug every chance we get. Everyone builds off of the work of those that came before us.

Yes, and I'm trying to build off of all your work as well.

BTW, I'd love to have a part in taking apart Loose Change 3 if/when it comes out.

[Pardalis]

I can show other examples of this...Tom Metzger claiming that big corporations get their ideas from the Socialist Worker's Party, for example. There was a hilarious guy on The History Channel forums who went into 49 incarnations of the same name to say that Hitler was financed by Jewish bankers, and that capitalism funded and created Communism as part of a Jewish banker plot to rule the world. Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion on steroids. :boggled:

This "world domination plan" is really long in the making isn't it? These Globalists are a patient bunch.

[Belz...]

They conveniently ignore all the people who jumped from the tower. Obviously they were trying to get away from the fire that was not there.

Forgot about those poor people. I guess they jummped because their frontal lobes were shocked or whatever geggyism.

[Belz...]

What do you know about blazes?

Have you SEEN my avatar ?

[The_Fire]

Belz claims to be the supreme ruler of Hell...........But there are quiet a few of us down here whom are not all to certain about that......

[Belz...]

I learned English by watching "Perfect Strangers". Not sure Balki is a good reference tho...

You're KIDDING me!! That was the OTHER show that helped me learn English. I guess that says something about the quality of those two shows.

When the Soviet Union fell, ending 50 years of wacky alarmist rhetoric from the extreme right, a researcher asked Richard Girnt Butler what the collapse f the Soviet Union meant. Butler, head of Aryan Nations, shrugged and said, "They closed a branch office that wasn't doing too well." :boggled:

:jaw-dropp

[Pardalis]

You're KIDDING me!! That was the OTHER show that helped me learn English. I guess that says something about the quality of those two shows.


Get out of the city!:D

[Belz...]

ZouPrime, is it me or is the anti-American sentiment in Montréal a little extreme? I mean, it's impossible to have an intelligent un-biased conversation with anyone about 9/11 or the war in Iraq whithout people ranting anti-american propaganda. I just avoid the topic altogether now, I'm so fed up.

I don't know. In Saguenay things don't seem so bad, but then no one here knows anything about anything, so that doesn't seem enough to EVEN form a biased opinion...

[Belz...]

And oddly, this 9/11 conspiracy group seems to have a smattering of both sides. The rhetoric is very strange. They've got the militia types that thought Oklahoma City was a government conspiracy siding with the hippies who alledge Skull and Bones members eat babies. They call Bush a Nazi and implicate the Jews in the same breath. :confused:

Of course they do, Delphi. IT'S ALL CONNECTED!!

Thats easy: You're male......

Ridiculous. I remember everything. Period.

[Belz...]

I can show other examples of this...Tom Metzger claiming that big corporations get their ideas from the Socialist Worker's Party, for example. There was a hilarious guy on The History Channel forums who went into 49 incarnations of the same name to say that Hitler was financed by Jewish bankers, and that capitalism funded and created Communism as part of a Jewish banker plot to rule the world. Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion on steroids. :boggled:

But that doesn't even mak... I me...t... dkkk...NO CARRIER

[Belz...]

Yeah, Bush really made a mess of people's view of America. The thing is when they talk against Bush, they don't necesserally say "Bush" but "Américains", as if all Americans agreed with him. There's even a new "trend" here these days (maybe you've noticed) to call Americans "États-Uniens", wich can't really be translated in English (maybe "United-Staters"???). As if Americans were guilty of stealing the word "America" (the continent). I find it particularly ridiculous.

So do I. The country's called the United States of AMERICA. It seems most reasonable to call it's citizens AMERICANS. Besides, why would Canadians mind ? Since when do they want to call themselves American for some reason ? It seems a vacuous argument designed solely to insult "USAers".

Any intolerance towards any people should be inacceptable.

Except the intolerents, of course.

[Pardalis]

I don't know. In Saguenay things don't seem so bad, but then no one here knows anything about anything, so that doesn't seem enough to EVEN form a biased opinion...

Maybe it's just because people over there don't feel that much threatened by the US (culturally, geographically and economically).

[Belz...]

Belz claims to be the supreme ruler of Hell...........But there are quiet a few of us down here whom are not all to certain about that......

According to your "location", The_Fire, all you have to do is check with your local overlord, and he can point you straight to me on level 4. No garantees about not beign eaten on the way there, of course. Oh, and either wear something REAL warm, or something very revealing. One helps you survive, the other may win you the supreme ruler's good graces. MOUahahahah!

[Belz...]

Maybe it's just because people over there don't feel that much threatened by the US (culturally, geographically and economically).

That's debatable. Saguenay IS the bastion of the "séparatistes" who yap and yap about protecting their "distinct" culture but keep using english words and American mannerisms.

ETA: Spelling...

[Pardalis]

That's debatable. Saguenay IS the bastion of the "séparatistes" who yap and yap about protecting their "distinct" culture but keep using english words and American mannerisms.

ETA: Spelling...

I think separatism isn't related to the US's influence on Québec, but English Canada's. You're talking to one here. ;):D

[Belz...]

I think separatism isn't related to the US's influence on Québec, but English Canada's. You're talking to one here. ;):D

I know that. As I said, I live in the hotbed of that antiquated philosophy, no offense. All I'm saying is that most separatists see a threat in the English world around them, but seem to forget that A) they already are assimilated by the American culture, and sovereignty will not change that; and B) that separating will not move Québec any further from the mainland and its cultural influence.

[Hutch]

Oh, that's beautiful. Hutch, do you dare post this on that LC thread?

One must dare much if one is to gain favor with the Spirits. Posted 5PM CST--we'll see how long it--and I--last.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4970&st=60&#entry4959575

[dubfan]

One must dare much if one is to gain favor with the Spirits. Posted 5PM CST--we'll see how long it--and I--last.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4970&st=60&#entry4959575

Oh. My. God.

Historic.

[ZouPrime]

Jeez, so we are THREE quebecois here? What a coincidence.

...

or is it?

<cue x-file music> doo doo doo doo doo doooo

[delphi_ote]

Bear in mind that the Arabs have been doing that in their propaganda for many years, and increasingly so. Oddly enough, Western Holocaust deniers do the same thing...they claim Zionists supported Hitler and vice versa and that Hitler was pro-Jewish.

There's a really wacky web page called Iamthewitness.com that spouts much of this garbage, which leaves the intelligent reader with his or her jaw on the floor.

I can show other examples of this...Tom Metzger claiming that big corporations get their ideas from the Socialist Worker's Party, for example. There was a hilarious guy on The History Channel forums who went into 49 incarnations of the same name to say that Hitler was financed by Jewish bankers, and that capitalism funded and created Communism as part of a Jewish banker plot to rule the world. Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion on steroids. :boggled:
If I ever find myself in New Jersey or you ever find yourself in Orlando, I would love to chat with you over a beer.

[delphi_ote]

One must dare much if one is to gain favor with the Spirits. Posted 5PM CST--we'll see how long it--and I--last.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4970&st=60&#entry4959575
:dl:
That's the best post that forum has ever seen!

[Gravy]

One must dare much if one is to gain favor with the Spirits. Posted 5PM CST--we'll see how long it--and I--last.
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4970&st=60&#entry4959575
"I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but, by God, they frighten me!"
– The Ninja of Wellington

[CFLarsen]

Busted. (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5072&st=60&#entry4959918)

[Gravy]

I know that. As I said, I live in the hotbed of that antiquated philosophy, no offense. All I'm saying is that most separatists see a threat in the English world around them, but seem to forget that A) they already are assimilated by the American culture, and sovereignty will not change that; and B) that separating will not move Québec any further from the mainland and its cultural influence.
You forgot C) Which is that the U.S., suffering an acute shortage of cheap labor after building a wall at the Mexican border, will invade Canada and enslave all Canadians and eat all the geese.

[delphi_ote]

I confess. I am a JREF Ninja.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/delphi_ote/b1473e56.jpg

[Polaris]

Neat. So he can spend the rest of his life claiming he's hunted but that the conspirators don't dare touch him because he's a public figure. Bah. What an "/$(%&"&*.

He's not even a good conspiracy theorist - or he would have mentioned Robert Maxwell (granted I'm sure most CTs probably think the actual story there is too mundane), or certainly JFK. You don't get more public than that.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I confess. I am a JREF Ninja.




Doh! Are you going to flip out and kill people?

[Belz...]

Why can I remember that obscure tidbit but not the name of the girl I went out to coffee with last Friday night?

Is that new avatar really you, Delphi ?

If so, sweet!

[Belz...]

:dl:
That's the best post that forum has ever seen!

I particularily like the fact that we wield Occam swords...

[delphi_ote]

Doh! Are you going to flip out and kill people?
All ninja queries shoud be directed to:
http://www.askaninja.com/

[delphi_ote]

Is that new avatar really you, Delphi ?

If so, sweet!
Digital camera + t-shirt + these instructions (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/philbooth/How_To_Be_A_Ninja.jpg) + boredom with Windows programming = new avatar

[Belz...]

I confess. I am a JREF Ninja.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/delphi_ote/b1473e56.jpg

Oh yeah ? Well I'm ZOMBIE BELZ...!!!!

(see attachment...)

[Pardalis]

I know that. As I said, I live in the hotbed of that antiquated philosophy, no offense.

None taken.:)

All I'm saying is that most separatists see a threat in the English world around them, but seem to forget that A) they already are assimilated by the American culture, and sovereignty will not change that; and B) that separating will not move Québec any further from the mainland and its cultural influence.

Good point. I'm not one of them, to me it isn't motivated by fear of assimilation.

[Pardalis]

One must dare much if one is to gain favor with the Spirits. Posted 5PM CST--we'll see how long it--and I--last.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4970&st=60&#entry4959575

It must have appealed to the LC crowd, they seem to respond solely to visual stimuli.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Hi-res photo gallary we can add to our arsenal:
http://www.pbase.com/bankst/911_gallery

[Belz...]

Hi-res photo gallary we can add to our arsenal:
http://www.pbase.com/bankst/911_gallery

Very neat, Arkan.

This one http://www.pbase.com/bankst/image/35931739 pretty much proves wrong Christophera's point about the remnants of the WTC beign part of the core.

[Gravy]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/8790447f748760c1c.jpg

[Regnad Kcin]

I confess. I am a JREF Ninja.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/delphi_ote/b1473e56.jpg
Shouldn't you be sporting eyewear? Y'know, to look a bit more like the One True Ninja:

[XXX]

Hi-res photo gallary we can add to our arsenal:
http://www.pbase.com/bankst/911_gallery

Very nice! Got them saved now.

[Polaris]

I often say that to people about Michael Moore's situation...if the US was really a police state, by now Moore's body would have been found dumped in a trash can in Flint, Michigan, a knife stuck in his ribs and his wallet and credit cards scattered around the garbage can, victim of an apparent mugging.

That would have to be a very long knife. (I couldn't help myself :D )

[Regnad Kcin]

Very neat, Arkan.

This one http://www.pbase.com/bankst/image/35931739 pretty much proves wrong Christophera's point about the remnants of the WTC beign part of the core.
Not to mention the "fell in their own footprints" inanity.

[Belz...]

Not to mention the "fell in their own footprints" inanity.

Yeah. Thought about that right after I posted.

[kookbreaker]

Sometimes its just best not to ask:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/kookbreaker/MallNinjaSurna.jpg

[Belz...]

Sometimes its just best not to ask:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/kookbreaker/MallNinjaSurna.jpg

Holy mother of...

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Ninja Minute Men? Wah?

[Gravy]

Ninja Minuteman NFL Running Back!
Go!

[realitybites]

I confess. I am a JREF Ninja.

Is that a Hattori Hanzo sword?

[Brainster]

Hi-res photo gallary we can add to our arsenal:
http://www.pbase.com/bankst/911_gallery

Excellent! The last one is of One Liberty Plaza, which points out another lie in Dylan's radio interview pointed to by Gravy earlier today. Dylan claimed that OLP was "virtually intact". Do these guys ever tell the truth, or is every word a lie including "and" and "the"? (Not my quote, can't remember who said it).

[Gravy]

Excellent! The last one is of One Liberty Plaza, which points out another lie in Dylan's radio interview pointed to by Gravy earlier today. Dylan claimed that OLP was "virtually intact". Do these guys ever tell the truth, or is every word a lie including "and" and "the"? (Not my quote, can't remember who said it).
No, that's the Deutsche Bank building, which is being torn down now.

[WildCat]

Don't know how the CT'ers missed this, from a PBS documentary (http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/engineering/engineering_debris_06.html):
RICH GARLOCK: Going below, it was smoky and really hot. We had rescue teams with meters for oxygen and carbon dioxide. They also had temperature monitors. Here WTC 6 is over my head. The debris past the columns was red-hot, molten, running.
Now, it doesn't claim it was steel and I don't see how molten metal of any composition helps the CT cause. I just thought this was interesting as it is the first time I've seen a first-hand account of molten anything at the site.

[Gravy]

Don't know how the CT'ers missed this, from a PBS documentary (http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/engineering/engineering_debris_06.html):
Yeah, that's an excellent site.

[WildCat]

This PBS site is great! Here (http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/engineering/engineering_property_02.html) is a pic of a vault filled w/ gold and silver bars. Of course, this is a tiny fraction of the amount LC claims was there. And it took a week to remove it all!

[kookbreaker]

One must dare much if one is to gain favor with the Spirits. Posted 5PM CST--we'll see how long it--and I--last.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=4970&st=60&#entry4959575

I also enjoyed how you taunted them for getting their collective butts whipped by Obviousman on the Moon Hoax thread. What a bunch of [rule8]s. I especially enjoyed when they said that Eric Huffy would show you and Obviousman. Rather doubtful considering he ran screaming from any debate on the Bad Astronomer bulletin board years ago.

They find faith in the dumbest, most cowardly people in that forum.

[delphi_ote]

Don't know how the CT'ers missed this, from a PBS documentary (http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/engineering/engineering_debris_06.html):

Now, it doesn't claim it was steel and I don't see how molten metal of any composition helps the CT cause. I just thought this was interesting as it is the first time I've seen a first-hand account of molten anything at the site.
Very interesting find, WildCat. I'd be very curious to know what would cause that. Especially in WTC6!

Garlock (the guy you quote) is a structural engineer. I wonder if he'd be willing to answer questions we had. I'm trying to Google stalk him now...

[SBrown]

OK I am stumped in an argument with someone and I have no answer for.

Why did the Pentagons missile defense system not react when the 757 entered its airspace?

[Brainster]

No, that's the Deutsche Bank building, which is being torn down now.

Danke, mein herr!

[Gravy]

OK I am stumped in an argument with someone and I have no answer for.

Why did the Pentagons missile defense system not react when the 757 entered its airspace?
Did the Pentagon have a missile defense system?

[Gravy]

Danke, mein herr!
Bitte!

[Gravy]

Why did the Pentagons missile defense system not react when the 757 entered its airspace?
I forgot to say, "Did the Pentagon have a missile defense system? Over."

[SBrown]

I forgot to say, "Did the Pentagon have a missile defense system? Over."


Of course. They had to have had one. A stupid frigate has multiple ones. The Pentagon is the heart of our national defense. Why would they not have one?

[Gravy]

Of course. They had to have had one. A stupid frigate has multiple ones. The Pentagon is the heart of our national defense. Why would they not have one?
Let us know what you find out, okay?

[WildCat]

Why would they not have one?
Might be a problem w/ a runway for Reagan Int'l Airport 3/4 mile away?

[Pidge]

Of course. They had to have had one. A stupid frigate has multiple ones. The Pentagon is the heart of our national defense. Why would they not have one?
Reagan National Airport is about two miles SSW of the Pentagon.

Google Maps is your friend (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=pentagon,+DC&om=1)

Lots of planes, lots of potential threats, it wouldn't look good if a commercial airliner accidentally got shot down by an automated air defense system, now would it?

On the balance of risk during peacetime, an operational automated air defense system at the Pentagon is probably, err, "overkill".

[SBrown]

OK
So I found this reported by CNN:
of course I cannot post links......:jaw-dropp

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency said its sixth test of its missile defense system Friday was a success, meaning it intercepted an intercontinental ballistic missile in space about 30 minutes after it was launched.

The Ground-based Midcourse Defense system was formerly known as the National Missile Defense system. Pentagon officials called Friday night's test a "major step" in the U.S. Missile Defense Agency's test program.

They said this test was similar to a December 3 test, which resulted in a successful missile intercept. But in this case, the latest ballistic missile carried three decoy balloons designed to confuse the "exoatmospheric kill vehicle," the device that seeks out the ballistic missile. In the December test, only one decoy was deployed.

"The test successfully demonstrated EKV flight performance and 'hit to kill' technology to intercept and destroy a long-range ballistic missile target," a Pentagon statement said.

Pentagon officials said the performance of all systems involved -- including ground and space-based radars, sensors and the interceptor itself -- will be examined in the coming day


So I guess if they were testing one in 2002, they didnt have one in 2001....right?

[SBrown]

Might be a problem w/ a runway for Reagan Int'l Airport 3/4 mile away?


So the whole Pentagon restricted airspace thing is a farce?

[WildCat]

OK
So I found this reported by CNN:
of course I cannot post links......:jaw-dropp


So I guess if they were testing one in 2002, they didnt have one in 2001....right?
Those weren't fired from the Pentagon, and it's not meant to protect the Pentagon from attack. It's just a project funded by the Pentagon.

[SBrown]

This is probabbly just BS then:



DATE=7/12/01

TYPE=CORRESPONDENT REPORT

TITLE=PENTAGON/MISSILE DEFENSE (L-O)

NUMBER=2-278161

BYLINE=ALEX BELIDA

DATELINE=PENTAGON

CONTENT=

VOICED AT:

INTRO: The Pentagon is planning to move ahead with new missile-defense construction that senior officials acknowledge could soon breach the terms of the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. More from Correspondent Alex Belida at the Pentagon.

TEXT: The Bush administration has made no secret of its intention to either revise the A-B-M treaty by negotiation or to withdraw from it altogether.

Now a senior Pentagon official has made clear to Congress the administration's new and more aggressive missile-defense testing plans could lead to an early conflict with the pact.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz was appearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee to discuss the Pentagon's request for substantial new funding for missile defense research.

/// WOLFOWITZ ACT ///

As the program develops and the various testing activities mature, one or more of those will inevitably bump up against treaty restrictions and limitations. Such an event is likely to occur in months, rather than in years.

/// END ACT ///

But Mr. Wolfowitz says it is not possible to know with certainty how soon a conflict will occur, because of both research and legal uncertainties.

The ambitious U-S missile defense test plan includes the construction of new facilities in Alaska, where defense planners envision eventual deployment of an operational ground-based missile interceptor system.

The administration effort is described as limited, intended to protect the United States against possible missile attack by a rogue state such as North Korea or Iraq.

Nevertheless, it has drawn criticism from Russia, China and some NATO allies who fear a new arms race. Some members of Congress have also voiced concerns about the missile-defense program.

One complaint by Senator Carl Levin, Chairman of the Armed Services Committee, dealt with the lack of detail in the Pentagon's plans.

/// LEVIN ACT ///

The administration's plans for missile defense for fiscal year 2002 have been harder to zero in on than a target in a missile defense test.

/// END ACT ///

The Pentagon has scheduled a full-scale interceptor test for this Saturday. A so-called - kill vehicle - will be fired from a Pacific Atoll in an attempt to destroy a ballistic missile launched from California.

Two of the three previous similar tests failed to result in an interception. (SIGNED)

NEB/BEL/RAE

[Gravy]

OK
So I found this reported by CNN:
of course I cannot post links......:jaw-dropp

So I guess if they were testing one in 2002, they didnt have one in 2001....right?
Let us know what you find out, okay?