Loose Change - Part II [Archive] - Page 9

dubfan

7th June 2006, 07:42 PM

Excuse the momentary thread-jack, but if someone whose account isn't suspended could please post the following over at LC, I'd appreciate it:

Rox: I'm not going to email you, because you've now proven to me that you won't truthfully represent what we've discussed in private (or in public, for that matter, even when I link directly to the posts that prove you're lying), so all of my correspondence to you from here on out will be via a public forum, so people can see and make up their own minds about what's really going on.

I'm sorry we have to communicate this way, but you have to date refused to answer the last email I sent to you, and the mods here are too afraid of a skeptic armed with facts to let me post here. You also seem to be too afraid to communicate using your currently active JREF account (where you could've easily PM'd me), so this is the way it will have to be.

I've been waiting for over a month now for you to give me the number of your show and for you to answer two simple questions. I agreed to be on your show -- on May 5 -- without setting any terms or any conditions. I gave you a series of dates to pick from, and let you know when I had problems being available for the full hour. I asked a simple question about who else would be on the show and what -- specifically -- about 9/11 you wanted to discuss. I expected an answer as a *courtesy*, not as a precondition. Since then, you have refused to answer those questions, refused to provide the number, and have avoided the issue entirely, saying that I "never got back to you" when it is plainly obvious that I did.

What more do you want? What's the problem? Why has it taken over a month and the public outing of three of your lies to get you to even lamely address the questions? And why do you *keep* lying about it -- in a forum where you know I can't respond to your lies directly, and when I've pointed out the posts that prove you're a liar?

You can post the number here, or if you wish to keep the number private, you can email it to me -- you've had the address for over a month now. Or you can PM it to me using your JREF account. If anyone is making this hard, it's you.

This is the FOURTH time now that I have acknowledged your request.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5603&view=findpost&p=5109663

The relevant post is here: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5730&view=findpost&p=5122861

Edit: spelling

WildCat

7th June 2006, 07:43 PM

I've heard the "alien's did it" theory before, but I had never seen concrete, irrefutable proof.

Until (http://thewebfairy.com/911/newwhatzits/) today (http://thewebfairy.com/911/canale/terroristattack/).

:eye-poppi
Yeah, those "aliens" even flap their wings... :boggled:

You're new here, you should have seen the Carlos Swett/Latinjrl threads a few years ago, the same nonsense. Was good for a few laughs though!

Pardalis

7th June 2006, 07:51 PM

realitybites

7th June 2006, 07:56 PM

Excuse the momentary thread-jack, but if someone whose account isn't suspended could please post the following over at LC, I'd appreciate it:

Done (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5603&st=30&#entry5135305). Hope it's the right thread.

dubfan

7th June 2006, 08:00 PM

Done (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5603&st=30&#entry5135305). Hope it's the right thread.

That's the one. Thank you.

Gravy

7th June 2006, 08:08 PM

What a long, strange thread it's been.

hellaeon

7th June 2006, 08:35 PM

Gravy...you should put your 9-11 index and truth movement critique on the loose change guide html site.

Ramooone

7th June 2006, 11:17 PM

K.E.M.O= The Art of "Killing Enemy Managed Agents" for treason.

one of the letters in your acronym is wrong.

Flange Desire

8th June 2006, 12:14 AM

Just love all these ninja suits!
You cats look so very cool.

Regnad Kcin

8th June 2006, 12:35 AM

The Phantom!

orphia nay

8th June 2006, 01:46 AM

It looks like I've been banned at LC.

When I go there I only get this message: "Sorry, you are not permitted to use this board".

Also, I've deleted my invision cookies, but still get the same message, so I can't read the board. I restarted firefox, but it still comes up. Maybe I'll try restarting the pc.

I haven't received any email telling me how long I've been banned - is that how you guys were informed of the length of your suspension?

orphia nay

8th June 2006, 01:57 AM

Forgot to suggest:

Sodcast?

No, Oddcast?

Wadcast?

The_Fire

8th June 2006, 01:58 AM

Wackcast?

Shrinker

8th June 2006, 02:00 AM

Regarding bans at the LC forum.

I don't do that there...Sorry You can't class me in with the others on that one. Sorry about your Luck...
Wrong. You banned me after a single post.

NobbyNobbs

8th June 2006, 05:19 AM

Regarding bans at the LC forum.

Wrong. You banned me after a single post.

And me after 2 posts. Both of which were looking for a clarification about the rules that lead to banning.

(Do I get a badge?)

Belz...

8th June 2006, 05:34 AM

dubfan

8th June 2006, 06:11 AM

I haven't received any email telling me how long I've been banned - is that how you guys were informed of the length of your suspension?

I don't think you get an email -- I think it just tells you after you try to log in. After my most recent suspension, I did get a PM from RedPillNeo (I know because I got an external email notice), but I can't log in to read it. I think that's the exception, rather than the rule, though. Mostly they just do it and then the next time you log in you get the message that tells you you're suspended and when the suspension is up.

rikzilla

8th June 2006, 07:11 AM

I don't think you get an email -- I think it just tells you after you try to log in. After my most recent suspension, I did get a PM from RedPillNeo (I know because I got an external email notice), but I can't log in to read it. I think that's the exception, rather than the rule, though. Mostly they just do it and then the next time you log in you get the message that tells you you're suspended and when the suspension is up.

I got out 5 posts in rapid succession...then BANG down came Maxwell's silver hammer. Yeah, these guys are after the truth...just like Holocaust Deniers are after the truth...and Creationists are after the truth....

...that is as long as the "truth" neatly fits into the tight confines of their narrowly limited little minds.

Might as well try and teach calculus to my cat.

It's true!
-z

8th June 2006, 07:22 AM

Well, so far I haven't been banned... then again, I'm in disguise over there... :D

Wondering how long it's gonna take.

60hzxtl

8th June 2006, 07:29 AM

You can't make this stuff up. Does anyone there know anything about anything?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5091&st=480

From the LC:

"This thread is so long - so i'm not sure if any legal action has been taken yet
but if French guys are sewing American guys, doesn't that mean the whole
thing will take place in France ?

If so, that could be favourable for Loose Change because you'll get a trial
independent from America...out of reach from Bush's claws (If it's going
to happen in the U.S they're probably going to attack LC hard to
surpress)

A trial in France would for sure attract international media's attention."

They are all "experts" about Controled demo, explosions, and missiles!

azazal

8th June 2006, 07:41 AM

A trial in France would for sure attract international media's attention."

I can see it now, "Ladies and gentleman, if you look to your left, you will see a couple of American idiots. Please no flash photography, they scare easily."

Gravy

8th June 2006, 07:42 AM

You can't make this stuff up. Does anyone there know anything about anything?
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5091&st=480
Ho. Lee. Cow.

kookbreaker

8th June 2006, 08:05 AM

They are all "experts" about Controled demo, explosions, and missiles!

Hey! They watched a lot of movies to get that expertise! Some of them weren't even blockbuster action movies, either!

60hzxtl

8th June 2006, 08:09 AM

I'm sure the case has to be heard in Japan, because the tape and camera were made in Japan. . .

Do they do much sewing there anymore?

CurtC

8th June 2006, 08:51 AM

I was on vacation last week, so the last several days I've been catching up in this thread. I was initially about 15 pages behind, and while I was trying to catch up, the thread kept growing. I had to resist the urge to comment on earlier posts, since they may have been addressed in subsequent pages.

I was so looking forward to seeing where the discussion had led, and being able to jump back into the discussion. Then I get to these last two or three pages and find...

DJ and Sentinel trading insults. It's hard to express how disappointed I am.

chipmunk stew

8th June 2006, 08:59 AM

Excuse the momentary thread-jack, but if someone whose account isn't suspended could please post the following over at LC, I'd appreciate it:

The relevant post is here: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5730&view=findpost&p=5122861

Edit: spellingA guy called "henhouse" is playing Don King:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5919

60hzxtl

8th June 2006, 09:16 AM

With apologies to Homer Simpson,

"Losers! Is there anything they DON"T know?"

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5916&view=getnewpost

kookbreaker

8th June 2006, 09:18 AM

With apologies to Homer Simpson,

"Losers! Is there anything they DON"T know?"

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5916&view=getnewpost

Wow...you'd think someone killed their favorite hero. Maybe they can make those pics into the new 'Che' T-Shirt or something.

chipmunk stew

8th June 2006, 09:40 AM

Just noticed this. The LC forum now has a subforum called:
"The Passengers: (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showforum=32)Discuss all aspects of the alleged passengers on Flight's 11, 175, 77, and 93 here. (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showforum=32)"

Alleged...

Under the subforum heading, there's a picture of five people who died on those flights.

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 10:02 AM

Regarding bans at the LC forum.

Wrong. You banned me after a single post.

Wasn't there someone who got banned without even posting once?

The_Fire

8th June 2006, 10:03 AM

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 10:03 AM

The_Fire

8th June 2006, 10:17 AM

Here are a couple of adresses, both of them for customer service, but it's a starting point:

United Airlines (south tower, flight 175 and pensylvania, flight 93):

http://www.united.com/

Phone:

1-877-228-1327
Available 8a.m.

American Airlines (north tower, flight 11 and pentagon, flight 77)

http://www.aa.com/

Address:
http://www.aa.com/content/images/common/line_thin.gif

U.S. Mail
American Airlines Customer Relations
P.O. Box 619612 MD 2400
DFW Airport, TX 75261-9612

Overnight Mail
American Airlines Customer Relations
4255 Amon Carter Blvd. MD 2400
Fort Worth, TX 76155-2603

Fax
Fax: (817) 967-4162

Right now I'm too bloody pissed off to write....

DavidJames

8th June 2006, 10:18 AM

These guys have no ethics.:mad: :mad:I feel quite comfortable saying many of the loser forum CT contributors are immature punks chronologically, (or at least emotionally), teenagers whose natural instinct for rebellion has been warped and horribly twisted and confused by failing to recognize the difference between the fantasy of movies and video games and real life.

To say they simply lack critical thinking skills is akin to saying Charlie Manson simply lacks table manners.

Kage

8th June 2006, 10:25 AM

Remember, whenever you lower the standards for these people, they will always go lower.

DavidJames

8th June 2006, 10:30 AM

Remember, whenever you lower the standards for these people, they will always go lower.My standards and expectations for the losers is no different then any other human being. I'm just reporting what my impressions are from what I read from them.

Belz...

8th June 2006, 10:39 AM

Wow...you'd think someone killed their favorite hero. Maybe they can make those pics into the new 'Che' T-Shirt or something.

If the government says so, it MUST be wrong... :rolleyes:

Belz...

8th June 2006, 10:41 AM

I feel quite comfortable saying many of the loser forum CT contributors are immature punks chronologically, (or at least emotionally), teenagers whose natural instinct for rebellion has been warped and horribly twisted and confused by failing to recognize the difference between the fantasy of movies and video games and real life.

Hopefully there'll be a pill to cure that one day.

CptColumbo

8th June 2006, 11:03 AM

You can't make this stuff up. Does anyone there know anything about anything?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5091&st=480

Well, that was fun while it lasted. I guess that's one way to deal with it.

realitybites

8th June 2006, 11:05 AM

60hzxtl

8th June 2006, 11:08 AM

Well, that was fun while it lasted. I guess that's one way to deal with it.

Interesting quote from "like hey, man, Dylan"

"this topic is no longer up for discussion. it's being taken care of. "

Not - all is well, the Naudet's have seen the light.

Not - We have reached an agreement.

Hehehehe, I "feel" a lesson being learned. But feelings aren't evidence.

Abbyas

8th June 2006, 11:23 AM

Excuse the momentary thread-jack, but if someone whose account isn't suspended could please post the following over at LC, I'd appreciate it:

He's responding over there, but just saying "JEEZ THIS IS MY EMAIL ADDRESS!"

If you want to go on his show, just e-mail him. But I doubt that anyone would fault you for not wanting to.

Gravy

8th June 2006, 11:25 AM

Hey guys. Just got an email here at work stating that our building is scheduled to be powered down Friday night into Saturday afternoon. Highly unusual.

I'll have my camera phone with me Monday morning to take pictures of any supsicious demolition charges, but if I don't get around to posting them, well....

..... I'm sure you'll be able to figure out what happened.
You may be from Brooklyn, but you must not be Jewish. It's common knowledge that the Jews were warned not to go to work Friday night and Saturday. Even most Christians know about that, because each year around Easter Charlton Heston reenacts the warning on TV.

chipmunk stew

8th June 2006, 11:26 AM

aggle-rithm

8th June 2006, 11:34 AM

Paul...I would love for you too find some dirt on me. I co started a entertainment company at 16. I already listed some other accomplishments. Along with those I do webdesign, I have had 2 interviews with MTV, I have hosted or been a part of many big name concerts in the Baltimore area. I have never followed a CT or government for that matter until 9/11 in which I found the rediculous story worth looking into.

You have nothing on me Paul, so I would suggest shutting your mouth.

I've been trying to catch up, and I'm confused.

Is DJLegacy Sentinel's sock puppet, or vice versa?

Either way, I have to tip my hat at the distraction tactic.

dubfan

8th June 2006, 11:39 AM

Can someone please post this in the Rox vs. dubfan thread? He has my email, and has had it for a month. I'm not emailing him again.

That is where it ended.

Wrong. Why don't you link to the thread where you say it "ended", Rox?

As I've said before, you have THREE WAYS to get it to me if you don't want to post it on a public forum. You know my email, you can PM me at JREF, or you can PM me here (although you'll have to get the mods to lift the ban on my account or you'll have to wait until after June 13 when my suspension is supposed to be lifted anyway).

This is the FIFTH time I've responded to you on this. Are you going to send it, or not? I'm not emailing you again.

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 11:41 AM

I've been trying to catch up, and I'm confused.

Is DJLegacy Sentinel's sock puppet, or vice versa?

Either way, I have to tip my hat at the distraction tactic.

Frankly, I don't even know what the hell Sentinel was talking about.

Abbyas

8th June 2006, 11:42 AM

Ach, I say just email him.

You know he's nuts. You know he won't email you first without it being some sort of a "loss" or "defeat". It's a perfect opportunity for you to be the bigger person.

And with 30 people that listen in, you could become famous!

aggle-rithm

8th June 2006, 11:47 AM

Frankly, I don't even know what the hell Sentinel was talking about.

Nor I. Rambling non-sequiturs always give me a headache.

It just seemed like a setup to me. Sentinal shows up, and DJ says, "Hey, look everyone! It's Sentinel! Let's all laugh at his antics!" As a result, intelligent discussion soon became impossible. Which is exactly what DJ wanted. :(

Ramooone

8th June 2006, 11:49 AM

the whole al-zarqawi thing proves that the loosers aren't for 9/11 truth but just anti-bush.

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 11:49 AM

Sabotage?

Orb

8th June 2006, 11:51 AM

My DH just sent me this article published 2 weeks after the 9/11 attacks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1561199.stm

This begs the question: Where do conspiracy theories come from? What is it in human nature that drives us to create alternative worlds peopled by shadowy figures?

Are we paranoid, delusional or just plain bored? ...

We create alternate realities because we reject the world where a single madman can bring down a president, a reckless driver can snuff out a princess... and a few men with knives can terrorise a country.

Interesting perspective. Seems logic and critical thinking are not the real issue, its the fear of loosing control. Kind of makes me feel sorry for them.

According to Psychology Professor Cary Cooper we are trying to stave off fear of random violence and unpredictable death.

dubfan

8th June 2006, 11:52 AM

He's responding over there, but just saying "JEEZ THIS IS MY EMAIL ADDRESS!"

If you want to go on his show, just e-mail him. But I doubt that anyone would fault you for not wanting to.

I have no problem going on his show.

I have a big problem continuing to feed his lying ego. He's had my email for a month and I've agreed to be on his show FIVE times now. If he wants me on, he can send it himself.

HE has all the information needed to make this happen, not me.

Edit: sp, clarification

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 11:54 AM

According to Psychology Professor Cary Cooper we are trying to stave off fear of random violence and unpredictable death.

I think you just hit on something interesting. Do you know of any of Mr. Cooper's writtings?

Orb

8th June 2006, 12:07 PM

Sorry, just regurgitated what I read in the article. I'll Google around and see if he has any other papers or articles of interest.

Maybe its time to change tact with these folks!

Abbyas

8th June 2006, 12:10 PM

I have a big problem continuing to feed his lying ego. He's had my email for a month and I've agreed to be on his show FIVE times now. If he wants me on, he can send it himself.

HE has all the information needed to make this happen, not me.

Makes sense, point taken. Good lord, can you imagine David Brinkley inviting someone onto his show and then refusing to deliver directions to the studio? "Why doesn't the Ayatollah just go on Mapquest?!"

Orb

8th June 2006, 12:17 PM

Here is a list of his publications. Looks like a lot of his work focuses on how people deal with stressful situations. He is a professor at Lancaster University Management School.

http://www.lums.lancs.ac.uk/profiles/304/?type=viewall#profilePublications
Publications
Argyris C, Starbuck WH and Cooper CL, 2004, The Blackwell Encyclopaedia of Management, Blackwell, Oxford, ISBN: 0-6312-3317-2

Cooper CL, 2004, Leadership and Management in the 21st Century: Business Challenges of the Future, Oxford University Press, Oxford, ISBN: 0-19-926336-1

Dewe P and Cooper CL, 2004, Stress: A Brief History, Blackwell, Oxford, ISBN: 1405107456

Robertson IT and Cooper CL, 2004, International Review of Industrial and Organizational Psychology, John Wiley and Sons Ltd, Chichester, ISBN: B0001YXC3M

Cooper CL, Robertson IT, Silvester J, Burnes B, Patterson F and Arnold J, 2004, Work Psychology: Understanding Human Behaviour in the Workplace, Financial Times Prentice Hall, ISBN: 0-273-65544-2

Cooper CL and Clarke S, 2003, Managing the Safety Risk of Workplace Stress, Routledge, London and New York, ISBN: 0-415-29709-5

Cooper CL, , 'Stress and the changing nature of work', in Creating the Productive Workplace, (eds) Clements-Croome D, Spon Press, Abingdon, ISBN: B0000C11WB

Cooper CL and Cartwright S, , 'Stress reduction: the role of individually targeted interventions', in Handbook of Work Stress, (eds) Barling J, Kelloway EK and Frone MR, Sage, London, ISBN: 0-7619-2949-5

Cooper CL and Quick JC, , 'Executives: engines for positive stress', in Emotional and Physiological Processes and Positive Intervention Strategies, (eds) Ganster DC and Perrewe PL, JAI, London, ISBN: 076231057X

Abbyas

8th June 2006, 12:20 PM

Well after telling Rox that the standard in media interviews is to make sure that the interviewee has all the details, he has responded:

2. Yes, you are right, at this point I could really care less if any of you come on my show. I don't particularly like any of you and think most of you are pretty pathetic, actually.

My fault. After all the "p*ssies" talk, I thought he cared. Apparantly he just likes the word "p*ssy".

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 12:24 PM

Here is a list of his publications

Thanks. It's an interesting lead into the CT mind. 9/11 was a stressful event, to say the least, and the fear of terrorism and future events like this is definately stressful as well. The Cts probably aren't able to handle that much stress so they channel it in these paranoid narratives. At least, that's my initial assumption. This lead is definately worth researching.

Kiwiwriter

8th June 2006, 12:30 PM

I think William Manchester hit it on the head when he wrote about the wave of conspiracy theories in the Kennedy assassination.

Manchester said that humans need balancing on the scales for events of such titanic nature. The idea that someone as towering as Kennedy should be killed by such a worthless waif as Lee Harvey Oswald doesn't make sense, and does not do justice to Kennedy. We want the villain to be a super-villain, not just some mope, mook, mutt, loser, or jerk, as cops would say.

People also have trouble with ambiguity and open endings. Centuries of moral fables, fairy tales, and soap operas have created a demand in humans that everything be tied up neatly by the last minute of the show. We expect the killer to be the special guest villain. We expect Kojak and Steve McGarrett to snap their fingers and point out the villain. We further expect the villain to break down and confess under the lash of cross-examination by Jack McCoy or Perry Mason. We also expect John Wayne to win all the battles (even if he dies in the final scene) and that a bunch of Japanese, ragheaded Arabs, redcoated English fops, or sneery drug dealers are nowhere near as smart, capable, or clever as our generals, patriots, and detectives.

Conspiracy theories provide neat and pat endings to these disasters. They play into our fears of the unknown, demonize the usual suspects, and tap into the cynicism Americans have festered since Vietnam, Watergate, and all the other idiocies since then. Remember that the United States ground to a halt to investigate Monica Lewinsky's semen-stained dress...while Osama and his pals were scouting targets for their second attack on the World Trade Center. We cannot accept that the other guy hates us enough and is smart enough to wreck our lives...it has to be the result of a hidden and treasonous cabal that is selling out our nation, our values, our rights, our moral fiber, and our heritage.

Conspiracy theories turn a random and ambiguous world into a neat and coherent whole package...it's all the Jews' fault. It's all the Masons' fault. Big Oil did it. The bankers did it. The Communists did it. God did it. It's all in The Bible. All in Das Kapital. All at the Mason's headquarters. All in Christian Rakovsky's confession to the NKVD in 1937.

The world becomes orderly, and those who feel victimized by the world have convenient scapegoats and targets to blame for their own failures. It's not my fault my business failed...Big Oil destroyed me. It's not my fault I couldn't get into a good school...Affirmative Action quotas beat me out. It's not my fault I'm not rich and powerful...the Jews have all the money.

They also enable people to be lazy. What's the point of trying? Elections are rigged. The Jews have all the money. Better you just sit back in your chair and whine about the conspiracy on an internet forum of like-minded losers than actually try to make your life and world better.

Conspiracy theories are perfect for fanatics. As Churchill said, "They won't change their opinion and they won't change the subject."

Orb

8th June 2006, 12:31 PM

Thanks. It's an interesting lead into the CT mind. 9/11 was a stressful event, to say the least, and the fear of terrorism and future events like this is definately stressful as well. The Cts probably aren't able to handle that much stress so they channel it in these paranoid narratives. At least, that's my initial assumption. This lead is definately worth researching.

Keep in mind too that most of the posters at LC are in their late teens/early 20's. I've even seen a kid over there that was 14! That means he was 9 years old when he experienced the shock of that day. Couple that, perhaps, with a lack of parental influence to help put things in perspective, and you have a pretty scared confused kid.

(Total armchair psychologist over here, sorry if I'm way off base)

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 12:34 PM

Interesting take on this, Kiwiwriter.

Nice to see this thread is back on track.

kookbreaker

8th June 2006, 12:34 PM

Keep in mind too that most of the posters at LC are in their late teens/early 20's. I've even seen a kid over there that was 14! That means he was 9 years old when he experienced the shock of that day. Couple that, perhaps, with a lack of parental influence to help put things in perspective, and you have a pretty scared confused kid.

(Total armchair psychologist over here, sorry if I'm way off base)

I think I've said it before, but if it were five years ago, these kids would be screaming 'Free Mumia' and spreading false details about that case.

911 just gave them something bigger to yell about. Who cares about a guy who shoots cops in the back, we've got the President killing thousands of his own citizens!

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 12:36 PM

(Total armchair psychologist over here, sorry if I'm way off base)

So am I. It still is interesting. :D

Kiwiwriter

8th June 2006, 12:43 PM

Interesting take on this, Kiwiwriter.

Nice to see this thread is back on track.

No worries, mate. Conspiracy theories and theorists interest me, because they seem to be everywhere...it depresses me that people will accept an anti-Semitic web page full of Biblical drivel over one of my press releases.

Their forensic style is interesting...shrill stuff, often poorly or badly-researched, usually stuffed with inside jargon. They demand debate, but on their terms. And if they don't win the debate (usually achieved by making their opponent explode or convert), they claim it's rigged. Show them the truth, they ignore it and mark you down as an "enemy." Then they use the tactics they denounce...against their opponents. It's a topsy-turvy world, a mix of Lewis Carroll and George Orwell.

And when I was having a miserable time as a kid, I saw my schoolteachers as being a conspiracy against me...25 years later, I can recognize my own wrong thinking and some of the signs. :)

azazal

8th June 2006, 12:46 PM

Belz...

8th June 2006, 01:08 PM

Sabotage?

Something Ninjas know a little about!

Belz...

8th June 2006, 01:10 PM

People also have trouble with ambiguity and open endings. Centuries of moral fables, fairy tales, and soap operas have created a demand in humans that everything be tied up neatly by the last minute of the show. We expect the killer to be the special guest villain. We expect Kojak and Steve McGarrett to snap their fingers and point out the villain. We further expect the villain to break down and confess under the lash of cross-examination by Jack McCoy or Perry Mason. We also expect John Wayne to win all the battles (even if he dies in the final scene) and that a bunch of Japanese, ragheaded Arabs, redcoated English fops, or sneery drug dealers are nowhere near as smart, capable, or clever as our generals, patriots, and detectives.

And yet some of the best movies have non-homerian structures...

patchbunny

8th June 2006, 01:13 PM

Something Ninjas know a little about!Ok, I have to ask... what's with all the ninjas?

Kiwiwriter

8th June 2006, 01:13 PM

And yet some of the best movies have non-homerian structures...

Yes, but 14-year-olds of all ages have grown up with NYPD Blue, All My Children, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, Star Trek, X-Files, Dawson's Creek, Dynasty, and The Brady Bunch. :boggled:

chipmunk stew

8th June 2006, 01:29 PM

Ok, I have to ask... what's with all the ninjas?A small joke blown up to ridiculous, gargantuan proportions.

See my sig :)

Oh, and don't miss: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1676520#post1676520

Hutch

8th June 2006, 02:14 PM

Ok, I have to ask... what's with all the ninjas?

Well. I'm going to grab the glory as the one who got the first spark lit, although others have done much more than I to carry it forward:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1676422&postcount=1131

Gravy

8th June 2006, 02:54 PM

Oh.
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5890&view=findpost&p=5145809

Belz...

8th June 2006, 03:19 PM

Yes, but 14-year-olds of all ages have grown up with NYPD Blue, All My Children, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, Star Trek, X-Files, Dawson's Creek, Dynasty, and The Brady Bunch. :boggled:

HEY! What do you have against Star Trek ?

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 03:21 PM

HEY! What do you have against Star Trek ?

And Dynasty? :D

rwguinn

8th June 2006, 03:49 PM

HEY! What do you have against Star Trek ?
The Brady Bunch was Troof! We know this because
"The troof is often painful", y'know!

Hawk one

8th June 2006, 04:36 PM

This is where I suggest that someone contacts the families of the victims, the airlines etc. and tells them about loose change and suggest that they launch a civil lawsuit for defamation and anything else they can think of including causing emotional pain.
They are pissing on a lot of good peoples graves.

Airlines and all that are a-ok with me that are contacted... I'm not sure I'd like to contact the victim's families...

...I'm not saying I can't see that it may be or become necessary. But even so, it still feels like a crappy thing, possibly having to point them to such grave-pissing as LC...

Gravy

8th June 2006, 04:45 PM

Airlines and all that are a-ok with me that are contacted... I'm not sure I'd like to contact the victim's families...

...I'm not saying I can't see that it may be or become necessary. But even so, it still feels like a crappy thing, possibly having to point them to such grave-pissing as LC...
I don't see what the airlines would have to gain. There's no money in it, and the poor CT's would just cry, "look at big business oppressing us!" The families would at least be able to claim that emotional distress was inflicted, but it would never get to court. I'll have some interesting reading material regarding this for you tomorrow.

Gravy

8th June 2006, 04:54 PM

"Crossing the Rubicon" CT author Michael Ruppert on "Loose Change"

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5929&view=findpost&p=5150165

“There is a plan by the British delegation (such as it is, so far) to get members of Parliament to watch “Loose Change”, the seminal movement DVD.” (16th paragraph) – This is one of the biggest whoppers of all. I have watched “Loose Change” and in my expert opinion it is a very fine piece of CIA disinformation, one that fits an astute maxim by Professor Peter Dale Scott: “Disinformation, in order to be effective, must be 90% accurate.”
Hmm. In that case, I'd say "Loose Change" is terrible disinfo.

Zbu

8th June 2006, 04:55 PM

I think William Manchester hit it on the head when he wrote about the wave of conspiracy theories in the Kennedy assassination.

Manchester said that humans need balancing on the scales for events of such titanic nature. The idea that someone as towering as Kennedy should be killed by such a worthless waif as Lee Harvey Oswald doesn't make sense, and does not do justice to Kennedy. We want the villain to be a super-villain, not just some mope, mook, mutt, loser, or jerk, as cops would say.

People also have trouble with ambiguity and open endings. Centuries of moral fables, fairy tales, and soap operas have created a demand in humans that everything be tied up neatly by the last minute of the show. We expect the killer to be the special guest villain. We expect Kojak and Steve McGarrett to snap their fingers and point out the villain. We further expect the villain to break down and confess under the lash of cross-examination by Jack McCoy or Perry Mason. We also expect John Wayne to win all the battles (even if he dies in the final scene) and that a bunch of Japanese, ragheaded Arabs, redcoated English fops, or sneery drug dealers are nowhere near as smart, capable, or clever as our generals, patriots, and detectives.

Conspiracy theories provide neat and pat endings to these disasters. They play into our fears of the unknown, demonize the usual suspects, and tap into the cynicism Americans have festered since Vietnam, Watergate, and all the other idiocies since then. Remember that the United States ground to a halt to investigate Monica Lewinsky's semen-stained dress...while Osama and his pals were scouting targets for their second attack on the World Trade Center. We cannot accept that the other guy hates us enough and is smart enough to wreck our lives...it has to be the result of a hidden and treasonous cabal that is selling out our nation, our values, our rights, our moral fiber, and our heritage.

Conspiracy theories turn a random and ambiguous world into a neat and coherent whole package...it's all the Jews' fault. It's all the Masons' fault. Big Oil did it. The bankers did it. The Communists did it. God did it. It's all in The Bible. All in Das Kapital. All at the Mason's headquarters. All in Christian Rakovsky's confession to the NKVD in 1937.

The world becomes orderly, and those who feel victimized by the world have convenient scapegoats and targets to blame for their own failures. It's not my fault my business failed...Big Oil destroyed me. It's not my fault I couldn't get into a good school...Affirmative Action quotas beat me out. It's not my fault I'm not rich and powerful...the Jews have all the money.

They also enable people to be lazy. What's the point of trying? Elections are rigged. The Jews have all the money. Better you just sit back in your chair and whine about the conspiracy on an internet forum of like-minded losers than actually try to make your life and world better.

Plus it can also be seen as the difficulty some people have with separating reality from fantasy. Seriously, what is the motivation behind some of these people when they use their faulty reasoning for it? They want to be seen as people who know THE TRUTH and how this sets them above and beyond any normal people. Finding the 'truth' they seek has a dual purpose: it both exposes the fulility of the common government and/or massive group and 'elevates' the individual(s) who figure it out so they are seen as brighter, smarter, or generally more observant. This is why they always are condescending and insulting to skeptics. It's not that we're too stupid to understand, it's that we must be stupid in order for them to be elevated above us in some kind of faux elitism that comes off as being sad and pathetic. They try to baffle with bull and get upset when challenged because they link their self-worth to a flimsy fantasy that means too much to them. They want to be seen as the hero, the only one who truly knows, the one with the leather trenchcoat and the witty comebacks who can dodge all the machine gun's bullets and climb on walls, get the girl, save the universe, fix the economy and then make a killer dinner.

They probably believe too much in televised fantasy than actual reality. I would feel sorry for them if they weren't really messing about with people's emotions.

60hzxtl

8th June 2006, 05:04 PM

Loose Change 2!

The film so good we have to give it away!

steve s

8th June 2006, 05:47 PM

Loose Change 2!

The film so good we have to give it away!

The film so good we had to make Loose Change 3 to correct all the mistakes in LC2, which was made to correct all the mistakes in LC1.

Steve S.

dubfan

8th June 2006, 06:05 PM

The film so good we had to make Loose Change 3 to correct all the mistakes in LC2, which was made to correct all the mistakes in LC1.

Steve S.

I don't know if anyone remembers, but there was a thread over at the LC forum about how long the movie would be if it focused only on facts. The unintentional comedic reply from one of the Loosers? "That might leave us with a very short movie."

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3778&view=findpost&p=4363670

RandFan

8th June 2006, 07:26 PM

I don't know if anyone remembers, but there was a thread over at the LC forum about how long the movie would be if it focused only on facts. The unintentional comedic reply from one of the Loosers? "That might leave us with a very short movie."

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3778&view=findpost&p=4363670 The quote:

The 3rd version should have NOTHING that can’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and have all of the proof in a place for everyone to see it.

Yes, that might make for a boring movie. It also might leave us with a very short movie, but at least there won’t be anything in it that can be used against the movement as a whole.

Just my thoughts... :D

MarkyX

8th June 2006, 07:42 PM

If their current one hour preview had anything to do with the final cut, there is a LOT to doubt.

I'm still laughing at the Geology lady telling me about the non-existent missile batteries. Oh crazy lady, when were they ever used?

Axiom_Blade

8th June 2006, 07:49 PM

"Crossing the Rubicon" CT author Michael Ruppert on "Loose Change"

Hmm. In that case, I'd say "Loose Change" is terrible disinfo.

I really couldn't believe it when I first heard that the CT guys were accusing each other of being part of the conspiracy.
Where did this idea about "disinfo" come from? Has anybody actually tried this?
"OK, guys, I got the perfect idea to keep this conspiracy covered up. We'll reveal everything, but change a couple of key facts. That way, no one will ever figure it out!"

HUH?!?

WildCat

8th June 2006, 08:03 PM

"OK, guys, I got the perfect idea to keep this conspiracy covered up. We'll reveal everything, but change a couple of key facts. That way, no one will ever figure it out!"
Yes, that can work. We're They're very clever. :whistling:

Gravy

8th June 2006, 08:33 PM

I really couldn't believe it when I first heard that the CT guys were accusing each other of being part of the conspiracy.
Where did this idea about "disinfo" come from? Has anybody actually tried this?
"OK, guys, I got the perfect idea to keep this conspiracy covered up. We'll reveal everything, but change a couple of key facts. That way, no one will ever figure it out!"

HUH?!?
Then there guys like moonbat moonhoaxbat Eric Hufschmid, who think it's possible that everyone is a disinfo agent seeking to keep his video sales down.
If you want a more diabolical possibility, consider that Dylan Avery and/or Jason Bermas are connected to the criminal network through relatives. In such a case, their relatives may have encouraged Avery or Bermas to create this video in order to give them something to push aside "Painful Deceptions."
http://www.erichufschmid.net/InvestigateTheTruthSeekers.htm

steve s

8th June 2006, 08:33 PM

So in 30 years will a bald, overweight Dylan Avery be promoting Loose Change 47, the version that really sets the record straight?

Steve S.

bob_kark

8th June 2006, 08:37 PM

I actually enjoyed listening to the clips on this thread:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5959

You have to really admire how smooth Alan Colmes was when he drops the line. I have to say, I don't exactly know why they consider it a victory to have their calls dumped though...

Childlike Empress

8th June 2006, 08:39 PM

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 08:43 PM

P.P.S. Your smilies suck. :p

Welcome.

Would you be Jenabell by any chance?

Gravy

8th June 2006, 08:45 PM

I actually enjoyed listening to the clips on this thread:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5959
.

I love this reply about the caller, re: Operation Northwoods
It shows that your 'trusted' government officials put the plans on paper and they were almost greenlighted. They show it's not a conspiracy theory that out own government would commit terrorism in our country and blame it on someone else to achieve a political outcome. If you can't figure this out, may the Lord help you.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5959&view=findpost&p=5162742
Only in CT land does "almost greenlighted" mean "summarily rejected."

bob_kark

8th June 2006, 08:47 PM

Should I know what the hell John Gray has to do with any of this? Were you the one that got busted with 5.5 tons of cocaine in Mexico? How many times do we have to tell you people, don't get high on your own supply!

P.S. Please try to make your posts coherent.

P.P.S. Try clicking on "More" in the smilies box. May I suggest the "Bananas" section, they're my favorite. :bananalama:

Childlike Empress

8th June 2006, 08:48 PM

Welcome.

Would you be Jenabell by any chance?

Thanks. No. Are you a CT?

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 08:51 PM

Thanks. No. Are you a CT?

Of course I'm not.

Excuse me for thinking you were Jenabell, my mistake.

:)

Gravy

8th June 2006, 08:51 PM

Ever heard of COINTELPRO? Read the stories in the NYT about the government spending huge amounts of money producing fake news?
Welcome to the forum.
I have heard of COINTELPRO, but I don't follow your post. Can you be more direct?

WildCat

8th June 2006, 08:52 PM

Ever heard of COINTELPRO? Read the stories in the NYT about the government spending huge amounts of money producing fake news?
Could you link to the article?

eta: You can't link yet, just leave out the "www" part and spell the dot or something.

Ducky

8th June 2006, 08:52 PM

Ever heard of COINTELPRO? Read the stories in the NYT about the government spending huge amounts of money producing fake news?

As you folks spend your days talking about "woo"'s, i'm sure you know John Gray, the author of "men are from mars, women are from venus". Did you know that he is associated with the shadowy Adnan Khashoggi? The "Iran-Contra"-Khashoggi? The "Genesis Intermedia" Khashoggi? Did you know he sponsored a 9/11-Conference back in 2004?

Ever thought about why it was "Loose Change" that revealed the existence of the 9/11-"CT" to you? It's not only because you or your friends heard about Sheen and the other "nutters" on CNN. People like Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, Jack Blood, Dave von Kleist etc did the promotional prework. People who are associated with GCN, the influential "Genesis Communication Network" (*ring ring*).

Do you know who the last owner of the "twin"-machine of the plane that was lately busted in mexico with 5.5 tons of cocaine was? Right, Adnan Khashoggi. And who is the owner of the busted plane? "Nobody knows".

Perhaps some of you noticed that f.e. wtc7.net warned back in August 05 about Loose Change and how it will get "debunked". You did a good job, brave citizens that you are.

And did you notice that there is - beside folks like you - another topic that gets frequently deleted or ridiculed over at the Loose Change-Forum? That's the work of people like Daniel Hopsicker. Read the sticky thread "Everybody's gotta learn sometime" at their "Investigate 9/11"-Subforum and see how the notorious "TheQuest" and "datars" are behaving.

Think about it, folks. Critical.

P.S. And make sure you watch "Who killed John O'Neill" (wkjo.com) and read some articles on Hopsickers site madcowprod.com, especially the three part series "COINTELPRO 9/11" in the archives.

P.P.S. Your smilies suck. :p

Ever hear of Charles Manson? Or the Beach Boys? Well Sharon Tate was friends with Abigail Folgers who also hung out in the studio with the Beach boys during recordings of Pet Sounds.

It's obvious that Brian Wilson had Sharon Tate and Abigail Folgers murdered because they criticized his work! And this is a massive conspiracy to cover up that Brian Wilson didn't record that music or write it at all! He had Chuck Berry ghost write and record everything! WAKE UP! USE YOUR CRITICAL THINKING! CHUCK BERRY ORDERED BRIAN WILSON TO HAVE THE MANSON FAMILY MURDER SHARON TATE AND ABIGAIL FOLGERS! The Manson family tried to cover it up with the Labianca murders and disguise it as racial hate crimes too.

OR....

A coincidence is just a coincidence, and Charles Manson's presence at the Beach Boy's house and recording studio was a short lived freak occurence.

Are you getting my point?

Gravy

8th June 2006, 08:55 PM

coincidence is just a coincidence, and Charles Manson's presence at the Beach Boy's house and recording studio was a short lived freak occurence.
Manson was the only one who could make Mike Love look good.

Ducky

8th June 2006, 08:57 PM

Manson was the only one who could make Mike Love look good.

:dl:

Axiom_Blade

8th June 2006, 09:01 PM

Ever heard of COINTELPRO? Read the stories in the NYT about the government spending huge amounts of money producing fake news?

I thought COINTELPRO was done to discredit activists. They weren't paid to go around bad-mouthing the government, they were agents provocateurs in activist groups. Am I wrong?

I would be interested in seeing those stories from NYT, though.

Ever thought about why it was "Loose Change" that revealed the existence of the 9/11-"CT" to you?

Actually, in my case, it was my roommate, who, about 2 weeks or so after 9/11, brought it up casually in a conversation. "Yeah, I heard from a friend that Bush knew all about 9/11 before it happened."
Yup, they kept it all under wraps up until 9/11, but after that my freakin' roommate knows about it! (I should've asked her if her friend worked for the CIA, or something.)

"Heard it from a friend" flags it as an urban legend. As far as I can see, that's all it still is. Just an urban legend that some people have put a LOT of time and money into.

So, a question about these disinfo campaigns:
Why did we never hear:
"Bush is doing illegal wiretaps! Under orders from space aliens!"
or
"Torture is rampant at Abu Ghraib! And all the torturers are vampires working for the military!"

Childlike Empress

8th June 2006, 09:19 PM

@WildCat: visit stopfakenews . org There are a lot of links on the frontpage.

Are you getting my point?
Yeah, you don't know what i'm talking about.

Should I know what the hell John Gray has to do with any of this?
Can you be more direct?

Please read:
madcowprod.com/mc6612004.html
madcowprod.com/mc6712004.html
madcowprod.com/MC6812004.html

Please try to make your posts coherent.
Sorry for my weak english.

I have to go to work now. See you later.

CptColumbo

8th June 2006, 09:20 PM

Did you know that John Gray has a mail-order PHD?

Gravy

8th June 2006, 09:22 PM

Please read:
madcowprod.com/mc6612004.html
madcowprod.com/mc6712004.html
madcowprod.com/MC6812004.html

By "more direct," I was hoping for an explanation in your words. Your post is less direct.

bob_kark

8th June 2006, 09:29 PM

Please read:
madcowprod.com/mc6612004.html
madcowprod.com/mc6712004.html
madcowprod.com/MC6812004.html

Okay... this is all I could find:

Next Monday in pt II of COINTELPRO 9.11 we'll learn the truth about cultish involvement in 9/11 flourishing under the not-so-invisible hand of corrupt Saudi billionaire Adnan Khashoggi, as well as a few closely-guarded secrets of controversial author John Gray, including his bizarre connection to uber-UFO Cult Leader Marshal (“Just DO it”) Applewhite, leader of the Heaven’s Gate cult which committed suicide in Rancho Santa Fe, Ca. in March of 1997.

It seems to be two seperate subjects. I suppose we'll have to wait until Monday to be sure though. Until then, I'm still wondering what this link has to do with anything you're talking about.

Sorry for my weak english.

I have to go to work now. See you later.

Oh, I understand now. Is it possible you misinterpreted the information you read on the website you linked?

WildCat

8th June 2006, 09:41 PM

@WildCat: visit stopfakenews . org There are a lot of links on the frontpage.
OK, so the Washington Post ran a story (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54651-2005Jan6.html) that the Bush admin. sent anti-drug storys to be aired by news orgs. w/o revealing that it was a gov't story?

Is this supposed to be one of those connect-the-dot moments CT'ers use where I'm supposed to slap myself on the forehead and say "omg Bush totally blew up the WTC and the Pentagon and kidnapped flight 93 and blew up a missile in Shanksville!!111!!!!111!!!"?

You need to do better as far as tying this to 9/11. There is a thread on this somewhere in the Politics forum if you want to post about that.

CptColumbo

8th June 2006, 09:41 PM

Arkan_Wolfshade

8th June 2006, 09:52 PM

Ever heard of COINTELPRO?

Yes

...As you folks spend your days talking about "woo"'s, i'm sure you know John Gray, the author of "men are from mars, women are from venus".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060574216/sr=8-1/qid=1149824613/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7358777-5680914?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Did you know that he is associated with the shadowy Adnan Khashoggi?
The "Iran-Contra"-Khashoggi?

http://www.nndb.com/people/321/000024249/
How is he associated?

The "Genesis Intermedia" Khashoggi?

http://www.business.com/directory/advertising_and_marketing/advertising/agencies/genesis_intermedia,_inc/profile/
Evidence Khashoggi is tied to Genesis Intermedia?

Did you know he sponsored a 9/11-Conference back in 2004?

Evidence? Purpose of said conference?

Ever thought about why it was "Loose Change" that revealed the existence of the 9/11-"CT" to you?

It wasn't; it's merely be a high visibility point as of late.

It's not only because you or your friends heard about Sheen and the other "nutters" on CNN. People like Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, Jack Blood, Dave von Kleist etc did the promotional prework.

And?

People who are associated with GCN, the influential "Genesis Communication Network" (*ring ring*).

http://www.gcnlive.com/

Do you know who the last owner of the "twin"-machine of the plane that was lately busted in mexico with 5.5 tons of cocaine was?

What is a "'twin'-machine"? Evidence of this bust? Evidence of connection to said machine?

Right, Adnan Khashoggi. And who is the owner of the busted plane? "Nobody knows".

What plane?

Perhaps some of you noticed that f.e. wtc7.net warned back in August 05 about Loose Change and how it will get "debunked".

Link? Relevence?

You did a good job, brave citizens that you are.

Your point?

And did you notice that there is - beside folks like you - another topic that gets frequently deleted or ridiculed over at the Loose Change-Forum? That's the work of people like Daniel Hopsicker.

This person? http://www.cia-drugs.com/symposium/speakers/hopsicker/
And your point?

Read the sticky thread "Everybody's gotta learn sometime" at their "Investigate 9/11"-Subforum and see how the notorious "TheQuest" and "datars" are behaving.

To what end?

P.S. And make sure you watch "Who killed John O'Neill" (wkjo.com) and read some articles on Hopsickers site madcowprod.com, especially the three part series "COINTELPRO 9/11" in the archives.

For what purpose?

WildCat

8th June 2006, 09:53 PM

I bet Kevin Bacon killed John O'Neill...

bob_kark

8th June 2006, 09:57 PM

Childlike Empress

8th June 2006, 09:58 PM

Bob, i "linked" three articles. Part I-III. Part III is the most relevant in case of the Genesis-Connection:
madcowprod.com/MC6812004.html

The NYT-Article is mirrored here:
media-alliance.org/article.php?story=2005040521384746

Arkan_Wolfshade, i answer later.

bob_kark

8th June 2006, 10:01 PM

Bob, i "linked" three articles. Part I-III. Part III is the most relevant in case of the Genesis-Connection:
madcowprod.com/MC6812004.html

Ah, I thought you were just being repetitive, some posters have nasty a habit of doing so. My appologies.

CptColumbo

8th June 2006, 10:02 PM

Bob
This is one:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5890&st=0&#entry5145809

Gravy posted some more earlier. This one is tame in comparison to some of the others.

RandFan

8th June 2006, 10:02 PM

Think about it, folks. Critical. Ever hear of stringing together lots of disparate information, anything with even the most tenuous of links to create a theory without any evidence? It's what conspiracy theorists do. Ever wonder why most rational people look into it, consider it and then move on? It's called reason. Look into it.

RandFan

8th June 2006, 10:04 PM

Bob
This is one:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5890&st=0&#entry5145809

Gravy posted some more earlier. This one is tame in comparison to some of the others.It's disgusting.

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 10:23 PM

Childlike Empress, I have read your links.

Don't take this wrong but I fail to see what all this has anything to do with Loose Change and the Conspiracy Theories concerning september 11 2001.

Maybe you could clarify.

Thanks.

Ramooone

8th June 2006, 10:30 PM

that holocaust thread was started by final strike who has also stated on many occassions is only 13yrs old. he must have good parents!!

Gravy

8th June 2006, 10:42 PM

Bob, i "linked" three articles. Part I-III. Part III is the most relevant in case of the Genesis-Connection:
madcowprod.com/MC6812004.html

A rambling conspiracy theory about conspiracy theorists, with tenouos connections, lots of innuendo, and few links to facts that support the implications being made.
Next.

Pardalis

8th June 2006, 10:50 PM

Now I'm confused.

Regnad Kcin

8th June 2006, 11:13 PM

Could it be time to begin Part III of this never ending story?

Pardalis

9th June 2006, 12:19 AM

This is like multiple layers of conspiracies, folding in on one another, like a Phillip K. Dick novel. :boggled:

Still don't know what the hell it's supposed to mean tho.

Ducky

9th June 2006, 12:59 AM

Yeah, you don't know what i'm talking about.

yes I do know what you're talking about. You missed my point by leaps and bounds, so I'll stop being subtle.

You have posted links stringing together a bunch of unrelated events with little or no evidence they have anything to do with each other and come to a wholesale conclusion not supported by facts in evidence. Just like my "theory" that Chuck Berry was the head of the Manson Family.

So, pony up some evidence other than links to someone other than who bought their PhD for less than I paid for my laptop, some evidence regarding collusion or conspiracy that isn't inductive inference and then we'll talk. Until then all you've posted is a paranoid theory without any basis in reality.

Jas

9th June 2006, 02:00 AM

Johnny Pixels

9th June 2006, 02:51 AM

Ever thought about why it was "Loose Change" that revealed the existence of the 9/11-"CT" to you? It's not only because you or your friends heard about Sheen and the other "nutters" on CNN. People like Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, Jack Blood, Dave von Kleist etc did the promotional prework. People who are associated with GCN, the influential "Genesis Communication Network" (*ring ring*).

Actually I created the 9/11 CT myself, a few days after it happened. Except my version fitted the facts and didn't include any kind of crazy talk about controlled demolition. It had means, motive and opportunity, except the motive didn't make sense, so I glossed over that a bit.

chipmunk stew

9th June 2006, 04:21 AM

Ever heard of COINTELPRO? Read the stories in the NYT about the government spending huge amounts of money producing fake news?

As you folks spend your days talking about "woo"'s, i'm sure you know John Gray, the author of "men are from mars, women are from venus". Did you know that he is associated with the shadowy Adnan Khashoggi? The "Iran-Contra"-Khashoggi? The "Genesis Intermedia" Khashoggi? Did you know he sponsored a 9/11-Conference back in 2004?

Ever thought about why it was "Loose Change" that revealed the existence of the 9/11-"CT" to you? It's not only because you or your friends heard about Sheen and the other "nutters" on CNN. People like Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, Jack Blood, Dave von Kleist etc did the promotional prework. People who are associated with GCN, the influential "Genesis Communication Network" (*ring ring*).

Do you know who the last owner of the "twin"-machine of the plane that was lately busted in mexico with 5.5 tons of cocaine was? Right, Adnan Khashoggi. And who is the owner of the busted plane? "Nobody knows".

Perhaps some of you noticed that f.e. wtc7.net warned back in August 05 about Loose Change and how it will get "debunked". You did a good job, brave citizens that you are.

And did you notice that there is - beside folks like you - another topic that gets frequently deleted or ridiculed over at the Loose Change-Forum? That's the work of people like Daniel Hopsicker. Read the sticky thread "Everybody's gotta learn sometime" at their "Investigate 9/11"-Subforum and see how the notorious "TheQuest" and "datars" are behaving.

Think about it, folks. Critical.

P.S. And make sure you watch "Who killed John O'Neill" (wkjo.com) and read some articles on Hopsickers site madcowprod.com, especially the three part series "COINTELPRO 9/11" in the archives.

P.P.S. Your smilies suck. :pWelcome, Empress! I don't really care whether or not Loose Change is "cointelpro". What matters is, both you and I know it's a load of crap.

Now, perhaps you can share with us the REAL truth behind 9/11.

P.P.S. :dl:

Belz...

9th June 2006, 05:36 AM

Plus it can also be seen as the difficulty some people have with separating reality from fantasy.

Seeing as though I've never seen a study that shows that they CAN'T see the difference, my stance is that they don't WANT TO.

Belz...

9th June 2006, 05:41 AM

As you folks spend your days talking about "woo"'s, i'm sure you know John Gray, the author of "men are from mars, women are from venus". Did you know that he is associated with the shadowy Adnan Khashoggi? The "Iran-Contra"-Khashoggi? The "Genesis Intermedia" Khashoggi? Did you know he sponsored a 9/11-Conference back in 2004?

You DO have evidence for this, right ?

Ever thought about why it was "Loose Change" that revealed the existence of the 9/11-"CT" to you?

My poor, poor girl. The CT is far older than Loose Change. You should get out more often.

Perhaps some of you noticed that f.e. wtc7.net warned back in August 05 about Loose Change and how it will get "debunked". You did a good job, brave citizens that you are.

Protecting OTHER citizens from the crap in LC, yes.

And did you notice that there is - beside folks like you - another topic that gets frequently deleted or ridiculed over at the Loose Change-Forum? That's the work of people like Daniel Hopsicker. Read the sticky thread "Everybody's gotta learn sometime" at their "Investigate 9/11"-Subforum and see how the notorious "TheQuest" and "datars" are behaving.

Is this getting us anywhere ?

P.S. And make sure you watch "Who killed John O'Neill" (wkjo.com) and read some articles on Hopsickers site madcowprod.com, especially the three part series "COINTELPRO 9/11" in the archives.

Don't forget the Father Dowling Mysteries... Sheesh.

Belz...

9th June 2006, 05:48 AM

Okay, I'm just starting to work my way through this thread, and for the vast majority of this stuff, I'm astounded that it even needs debunking.

Jesus Christ, and I thought that the people who bought into 'Bowling for Columbine' were retarded.

WOAH, Jas!! I didn't know you were a ninja, too!

Definitely, now. We're going to have to expand that dojo...

Flo

9th June 2006, 05:50 AM

Seeing as though I've never seen a study that shows that they CAN'T see the difference, my stance is that they don't WANT TO.

Admitting reality would mean admitting that they're a bunch of complete nobodies ...

chipmunk stew

9th June 2006, 05:53 AM

WOAH, Jas!! I didn't know you were a ninja, too!

Definitely, now. We're going to have to expand that dojo...It's already being taken care of, Belz... The dojo (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57860) is growing by the day. ;)

Belz...

9th June 2006, 05:53 AM

From http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...&#entry5145809

Quite honestly, I really wouldn't be surprised if he and his Iranian people were the nicest, most peace loving people in the world... Who gives us our information about these horrible countries? The media.. Where are we finding out their strings are attached to? The same people we have found out caused 911 and blamed it on the Muslims...

As I said... if the gov'mint says so... it MUST be wrong.

sleahead

9th June 2006, 05:56 AM

Seeing as though I've never seen a study that shows that they CAN'T see the difference, my stance is that they don't WANT TO.

Yes, I believe this is correct. Zbu is also correct when he writes about the CTs desire to believe they are smarter than the average guy. When faced with a debunk, an alarming prospect hoves into the CT's view. The prospect is that not only are they not smarter than the average guy, they are, in fact, very stupid. So they get very angry and choose not to see the reality placed before them.

MarkyX

9th June 2006, 06:18 AM

From http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...&#entry5145809

As I said... if the gov'mint says so... it MUST be wrong.

Yeah, Iran, real nice people.

It's not like they hang homosexuals (http://gayorbit.net/?p=2459) or hang their own women for self-defense (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,6119,2-10-1462_1859493,00.html)

****ing ********. I really hope someone runs them over in the car while they are in New York.

WildCat

9th June 2006, 06:23 AM

Yeah, Iran, real nice people.

It's not like they hang homosexuals (http://gayorbit.net/?p=2459) or hang their own women for self-defense (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,6119,2-10-1462_1859493,00.html)
That was the nice punishment for the woman, the usual sentence for such things is to bury her in the sand up to her neck and then a crowd throws rocks at her head until she's dead. Nice people...

realitybites

9th June 2006, 06:27 AM

Yeah, Iran, real nice people.

It's not like they hang homosexuals (http://gayorbit.net/?p=2459) or hang their own women for self-defense (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,6119,2-10-1462_1859493,00.html)

****ing ********. I really hope someone runs them over in the car while they are in New York.

Don't forget, they (like their brothers in Iraq) are professional kite flyers who all have degrees in making rainbows and kittens dance on the rosey cheeks of toddlers.

chipmunk stew

9th June 2006, 07:37 AM

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2390&view=findpost&p=5169304

:mad:
[rule 8]ing [rule 8] [rule 8]s!

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 07:39 AM

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2390&view=findpost&p=5169304

:mad:
[rule 8]ing [rule 8] [rule 8]s!

'Desperation Morale' is the phrase I would use to describe such Looser antics.

They once again fall for the fallacy that everything is on the web.

Gravy

9th June 2006, 07:50 AM

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2390&view=findpost&p=5169304

:mad:
[rule 8]ing [rule 8] [rule 8]s!
They're still pulling this crap? They were doing this "Social Security Death Index" thing when I started here. Then it was "Todd Beamer never existed and his "wife" is an actress." Hasn't anyone bothered reading the FAQ that explains why so many people aren't in the index?

http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/ssdi/index.html#reasons

ETA: Wow! My grandparents aren't dead! I'll see you all later. I'm off to Cleveland.

Belz...

9th June 2006, 08:06 AM

.

Yes, I believe this is correct. Zbu is also correct when he writes about the CTs desire to believe they are smarter than the average guy. When faced with a debunk, an alarming prospect hoves into the CT's view. The prospect is that not only are they not smarter than the average guy, they are, in fact, very stupid. So they get very angry and choose not to see the reality placed before them.

Well, I have noticed that, while most people can and will admit that they are bad at this or that, whatever that may be, almost no one will ever admit to beign anything else than smart.

For some reason, intelligence is very different from other abilities in people's mind. Myself included. 'Tis a weird thing.

Pardalis

9th June 2006, 08:12 AM

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2390&view=findpost&p=5169304

:mad:
[rule 8]ing [rule 8] [rule 8]s!

Exactly.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 08:18 AM

HEY! What do you have against Star Trek ?

...when it was good, it was very good. But when it was bad, it was frightful.

"Spock's Brain"
"The Way to Eden"
"The Apple"
"The Alternative Factor"
"The Lights of Zetar"
"For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" :D

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 08:21 AM

And Dynasty? :D

Let's see...campy plots, horrid acting, Gerry Ford and Henry Kissinger in cameos, menopausal women in ridiculous costumes getting into vicious catfights over their adultery, Joan Collins past her expiration date, and Linda Evans having larger shoulder pads than the defensive line of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Hutch

9th June 2006, 08:21 AM

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2390&view=findpost&p=5169304

:mad:
[rule 8]ing [rule 8] [rule 8]s!

Replied to. Probably too calmly, but replied to.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 08:23 AM

The Brady Bunch was Troof! We know this because
"The troof is often painful", y'know!

And if they hadn't done those two movies as parodies of the series, the Bradys would have been unbearable.

Fortunately, Shelley Long and Gary Cole were perfect in those movies.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 08:33 AM

Plus it can also be seen as the difficulty some people have with separating reality from fantasy. Seriously, what is the motivation behind some of these people when they use their faulty reasoning for it? They want to be seen as people who know THE TRUTH and how this sets them above and beyond any normal people. Finding the 'truth' they seek has a dual purpose: it both exposes the fulility of the common government and/or massive group and 'elevates' the individual(s) who figure it out so they are seen as brighter, smarter, or generally more observant. This is why they always are condescending and insulting to skeptics. It's not that we're too stupid to understand, it's that we must be stupid in order for them to be elevated above us in some kind of faux elitism that comes off as being sad and pathetic. They try to baffle with bull and get upset when challenged because they link their self-worth to a flimsy fantasy that means too much to them. They want to be seen as the hero, the only one who truly knows, the one with the leather trenchcoat and the witty comebacks who can dodge all the machine gun's bullets and climb on walls, get the girl, save the universe, fix the economy and then make a killer dinner.

They probably believe too much in televised fantasy than actual reality. I would feel sorry for them if they weren't really messing about with people's emotions.

Remember that in fiction, most of the time, the system is not the hero...the outcast, rebel, skeptic, lone warrior, or opponent is. There are very few novels, movies, or TV shows, where the government, bureaucracy, and so on are the heroes, and the villain is the creative individualist battling against it.

The only exception I know of is "The Caine Mutiny." The villain of the piece is NOT Captain Queeg. He's actually the victim. The villain is the sensitive novelist, Tom Keefer, who finds out (in the book more so than the movie) that he was wrong to manipulate people (Maryk and Willie Keith) to buck and fight the system. If Maryk had simply taken the ship to course 000 and said to Queeg something like, "We'll take care of this situation, sir. Don't worry," the ship would have been saved, and no mutiny.

But most fiction demonizes the system, and much of history also paints systems in bad light, with the caveat that the evil the system did was inevitably changed for the better...the American Revolution and the Civil Rights Era, for example. We combine this with, as I said, the cynicism toward our systems since Vietnam and Watergate, and we have an unhealthy situation where a 22-year-old film student with a penknife to grind is trusted more than a galaxy of Ph.Ds.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 08:35 AM

I really couldn't believe it when I first heard that the CT guys were accusing each other of being part of the conspiracy.
Where did this idea about "disinfo" come from? Has anybody actually tried this?
"OK, guys, I got the perfect idea to keep this conspiracy covered up. We'll reveal everything, but change a couple of key facts. That way, no one will ever figure it out!"

HUH?!?

...So now the makers of "Loose Change" are part of the conspiracy, spewing disinformation to cover up the truth? :eek:

This is worse than a John Le Carre novel...or the life of James J. Angleton. It's nothing but a sea of personal hatreds, urban legends, greed, and paranoia. :boggled:

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 08:42 AM

The anti-semitic stuff on the LC forum is just sickening me. I can't even post on those threads, because I would have to read them through first. I can't even joke about it. I didn't think I would find something on that site more offensive than the mocking of 9-11 victims, and once again they rose to the occasion.

It's a short hop from saying the US government did 9/11 to saying that Mossad did 9/11 to saying that the Jewish bankers did 9/11 to saying that according to the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, the Jews rule the world, and Hitler is a misunderstood genius.

Is this what they're saying on Loose Change? I don't look there...I like to keep my lunch in my stomach. :covereyes

dubfan

9th June 2006, 08:49 AM

...So now the makers of "Loose Change" are part of the conspiracy, spewing disinformation to cover up the truth? :eek:

Oh yeah, been this way for a while. At least half of their time & energy is devoted to attempting to discover who's a disinfo agent and who's not. I posted this great diagram from Hufschmid's site a while back that maps it all out.

:D

Want to have some fun? Get a group of CTs together and ask, "so, did a 757 hit the Pentagon, or not?" You'll have charges of "disinformation!" flying so fast it'll make your head spin.

Arkan_Wolfshade

9th June 2006, 09:17 AM

... It's nothing but a sea of personal hatreds, urban legends, greed, and paranoia. :boggled:

Welcome to the intarweb, enjoy your stay! :D

Axiom_Blade

9th June 2006, 10:01 AM

This is worse than a John Le Carre novel...
Hahaha...more like an L. Ron Hubbard novel!

Belz...

9th June 2006, 10:08 AM

...when it was good, it was very good. But when it was bad, it was frightful.

"Spock's Brain"
"The Way to Eden"
"The Apple"
"The Alternative Factor"
"The Lights of Zetar"
"For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" :D

That's true for a lot of shows.

Besides, I don't think the CTers grew up with the original show.

And at least "Spock's Brain" was funny. Side-splitting, in fact.

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 10:09 AM

Belz...

9th June 2006, 10:11 AM

Remember that in fiction, most of the time, the system is not the hero...the outcast, rebel, skeptic, lone warrior, or opponent is. There are very few novels, movies, or TV shows, where the government, bureaucracy, and so on are the heroes, and the villain is the creative individualist battling against it.

Well, usually in police and investigation and courtroom stories the bad guys ARE the rebels.

And there's Star Wars... or did I misunderstand that ??

Belz...

9th June 2006, 10:13 AM

All that and you didn't list 'The Empath'?

It wasn't THAT bad.

Not "Alternative factor" bad.

ETA: We are SO way off subject.

60hzxtl

9th June 2006, 10:18 AM

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2390&view=findpost&p=5169304

:mad:
[rule 8]ing [rule 8] [rule 8]s!

From the Losers:

Do a marriage license search at:
xxx
There are no marriage license records for Todd Beamerand Lisa Brosious!

Translation - If I can't find it, it doesn't exist.

I live in NY. But I was married in Virginia.

Where would you look for the license?

Further from the Losers:

"There is only one problem:Todd Beamer does not exist.Do a Social Security Death Index search for ToddBeamer at :"

Pssst - kids - he's not in the ssdi, because (drum roll - rimshot!) he was not collecting social security when he died! These kids need to read the whole page when they do a search - the death index lists the place that the last check was mailed to - no check? no listing!

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 10:18 AM

Well, usually in police and investigation and courtroom stories the bad guys ARE the rebels.

And there's Star Wars... or did I misunderstand that ??

No, we already proved the Death Star was an inside job.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 11:13 AM

that holocaust thread was started by final strike who has also stated on many occassions is only 13yrs old. he must have good parents!!

Yes, I've noticed that Holocaust deniers come in two species: very young and very old. Not many in the middle. A 13-year-old would be prime meat for a Holocaust denier...just smart enough to understand that tripe and too ill-educated to recognize it as tripe.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 11:14 AM

Oh yeah, been this way for a while. At least half of their time & energy is devoted to attempting to discover who's a disinfo agent and who's not. I posted this great diagram from Hufschmid's site a while back that maps it all out.

:D

Want to have some fun? Get a group of CTs together and ask, "so, did a 757 hit the Pentagon, or not?" You'll have charges of "disinformation!" flying so fast it'll make your head spin.

We need Smiley's People to figure this out. This is better than JFK theories! :)

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 11:16 AM

Welcome to the intarweb, enjoy your stay! :D

Sounds more like politics in Hudson County, N.J. :boggled:

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 11:17 AM

That's true for a lot of shows.

Besides, I don't think the CTers grew up with the original show.

And at least "Spock's Brain" was funny. Side-splitting, in fact.

Yes, but "Spock's Brain" was not intentionally funny. It just turned out that way.

The CTers probably did not watch it, but you can't live in the First World and not know about Star Trek.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 11:20 AM

All that and you didn't list 'The Empath'?

As Jack Hawkins says in "Bridge on the River Kwai,"

"There is always one more thing."

Don't have a concordance of all the episodes in front of me. But yes, "The Empath" was pretty bad.

"The Savage Curtain" was strange, too.
"Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" was very heavy-handed, with the subtlety of a jackhammer.
"A Private Little War" was a defense of the US in Vietnam, but I like the mugato/gumato.
"Bread and Circuses" had a stupid ending, but is the single best satire of television I have ever seen.

And what can beat Shatner reading the Constitution to close out the otherwise fine "Omega Glory?"

"Enterprise Incident" was a re-telling of the [B]USS Pueblo[B] mess, only the US wins.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 11:25 AM

Well, usually in police and investigation and courtroom stories the bad guys ARE the rebels.

And there's Star Wars... or did I misunderstand that ??

Yes, but very often, the cop himself (or the DA) is a renegade, constantly bickering and battling with his bosses. Clint Eastwood was always battling accusations of police brutality, for example. Baretta, Starsky and Hutch, Hunter, Andy Sipowicz, Kojak, even Quincy, were forever arguing with their superiors. They were unable to dispense justice and protect America because the bureaucracy and superiors were too busy following rules and techicalities to actually enforce the law.

My pals on the Newark police tell me that the "hero cops" in TV shows would be in jail or on the bricks in a week if they tried that behavior.

You don't see as much of that on "Law and Order," which is probably one reason I like it. You never saw that on "Dragnet," which is because Jack Webb re-created that show in 1967 to beat up on the hippies he disliked so intensely.

The Star Wars movies began in 1977 with the rebel alliance taking on the Evil Empire, personified by the Royal Hardhat, Darth Vader himself. Today we see that view in the Yankees being proclaimed as the "Evil Empire," to my chagrin as a Yankee fan.

Now, I have not seen the new three "Star Wars" films, so I can't comment on their universe.

Kiwiwriter

9th June 2006, 11:27 AM

No, we already proved the Death Star was an inside job.

No, the Death Star was the spaceship used in that battle 75 million years ago that determined the fate of the Earth, wrecked humanity, and became the foundation stone for Scientology.

It was the greatest disaster to befall humanity until Lennon met Ono...:D

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 11:40 AM

No, we already proved the Death Star was an inside job.
You proved nothing!

aggle-rithm

9th June 2006, 11:45 AM

That's true for a lot of shows.

Besides, I don't think the CTers grew up with the original show.

And at least "Spock's Brain" was funny. Side-splitting, in fact.

"Brain and brain! What is brain?"

Pangea

9th June 2006, 11:46 AM

Wow! My grandparents aren't dead! I'll see you all later. I'm off to Cleveland.
Neither are my grandparents. Oh, and my aunt, uncle, step-brother, nephew...all must still be alive. Yet, I distinctly remember their funerals.

*scratches head* So, that silly government was sly enough to plan and execute a highly complex series of events on 9-11 to fool millions of people, but they overlooked adding a fake entry into the SDDI? Too bad they didn't have the foresight to know that some snot rag sitting in front of his computer was going to figue it all out!

Regnad Kcin

9th June 2006, 11:53 AM

We need Smiley's People to figure this out. This is better than JFK theories! :)The one small, saving grace to all this nonsense (a word I choose very carefully) is that the old boy may finally get a chance to rest in peace.

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 11:53 AM

No, the Death Star was the spaceship used in that battle 75 million years ago that determined the fate of the Earth, wrecked humanity, and became the foundation stone for Scientology.

It was the greatest disaster to befall humanity until Lennon met Ono...:D

PROOOFF!! (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55261&) PWNED!!!!

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 11:54 AM

You proved nothing!

Vader loving neo-Emperist!

Brainster

9th June 2006, 11:57 AM

Oh yeah, been this way for a while. At least half of their time & energy is devoted to attempting to discover who's a disinfo agent and who's not. I posted this great diagram from Hufschmid's site a while back that maps it all out.

Hah! We had a lot of fun with that one. In the new "smorgasbord of content" that Dylan posted last week or so, they started out with Barrie Zwicker talking on a rooftop somewhere about how he thinks that of course the "Truth" movement has been infiltrated by government agents, that it would be a waste of taxpayer money if they had not been infiltrated. Of course the underlying message was "Please infiltrate us, we're important!"

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 11:59 AM

Vader loving neo-Emperist!

Nerf herding doped up space hippie!

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 12:00 PM

Nerf herding doped up space hippie!

DeathStarBat!

Hellbound

9th June 2006, 12:00 PM

Nerf herding doped up space hippie!

If you weren't so brainwashed by imperial propaganda, you'd see the truth!

I bet Vader doesn't even have to give you more than a passing thought before you fall into a Jedi-mind control trance!

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 12:09 PM

DeathStarBat!
Tin hat wearing womp rat!

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 12:12 PM

If you weren't so brainwashed by imperial propaganda, you'd see the truth!

I bet Vader doesn't even have to give you more than a passing thought before you fall into a Jedi-mind control trance!

If you wack job loosers could get your head out of your rear, perhaps you could see that not every little thing is a conspiracy! Next you'll claim its impossible to make the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs!

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 12:33 PM

Tin hat wearing womp rat!

Sphere-Hugging Galaxyist!

Hellbound

9th June 2006, 12:35 PM

If you wack job loosers could get your head out of your rear, perhaps you could see that not every little thing is a conspiracy! Next you'll claim its impossible to make the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs!

Tae Falcon never made the run! It was a hologram produced by R2-D2, the little rebel sabotage droid!

Blind, BLIND to the TRUTHTM I tell you!

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 12:41 PM

Sphere-Hugging Galaxyist!

Bleeding heart rebel!

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 12:42 PM

Tae Falcon never made the run! It was a hologram produced by R2-D2, the little rebel sabotage droid!

Blind, BLIND to the TRUTHTM I tell you!

Evidence?

RandFan

9th June 2006, 12:46 PM

Can't we all just get along? Think of the Ewoks.

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 12:48 PM

Bleeding heart rebel!

Neo-clonist!

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 12:48 PM

Can't we all just get along? Think of the Ewoks.

Its hard to... http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html

:(

Arkan_Wolfshade

9th June 2006, 12:51 PM

Can't we all just get along? Think of the Ewoks.

You need to get familiar with The Ewokian Conspiracy my friend. They've been running the Empire from behind the scenes for _years_!

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 12:52 PM

Neo-clonist!

Jar-Jar lover!

kookbreaker

9th June 2006, 12:54 PM

Jar-Jar lover!

Aww, man! That's low!

Mongrel

9th June 2006, 12:54 PM

Jar-Jar lover!
Now that's just going too far :mad:

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 12:57 PM

Whoa, sorry. I lost control for a minute there.

Hellbound

9th June 2006, 12:58 PM

Now that's just going too far :mad:

What do you expect from a low-minded Imperialist lackey!

Evidence of the hologram:

An anonymous source reported to be that they were told by a friend whose cousin knows a guy in Tatooine that worked for the son of a man who was involved in setting up the routing maps for the Kessel run. He told me the Falcon was never there.

Eat THAT!

:D

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 01:02 PM

What do you expect from a low-minded Imperialist lackey!

Evidence of the hologram:

An anonymous source reported to be that they were told by a friend whose cousin knows a guy in Tatooine that worked for the son of a man who was involved in setting up the routing maps for the Kessel run. He told me the Falcon was never there.

Eat THAT!

:D

Uh, huh. Solo is a smuggler, you really think he would be found so easily? You're so naive.

Belz...

9th June 2006, 01:05 PM

No, we already proved the Death Star was an inside job.

What ??? But it looked nothing like a controlled demolition...

...though the Millenium Falcon coming out of it DID look like a drone...

Belz...

9th June 2006, 01:07 PM

The CTers probably did not watch it, but you can't live in the First World and not know about Star Trek.

I betcha you can't live in the THIRD world and not know about it, either.

ETA:

And what can beat Shatner reading the Constitution to close out the otherwise fine "Omega Glory?"

"Otherwise fine" ? That was probably the worst of the bunch.

60hzxtl

9th June 2006, 01:09 PM

RandFan

9th June 2006, 01:09 PM

Its hard to... http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html

:( Damn Rebels :mad:

Childlike Empress

9th June 2006, 01:15 PM

As you folks spend your days talking about "woo"'s, i'm sure you know John Gray, the author of "men are from mars, women are from venus". Did you know that he is associated with the shadowy Adnan Khashoggi? The "Iran-Contra"-Khashoggi? The "Genesis Intermedia" Khashoggi? Did you know he sponsored a 9/11-Conference back in 2004?
You DO have evidence for this, right ?

Khashoggis Connections:
politicalfriendster.com/showPerson.php?id=174&name=Adnan-Khashoggi

Khashoggi, BCCI and Iran Contra:
fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/19rogers.htm

Genesis Intermedia Fraud:
businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_19/b3832095_mz020.htm
AMENDED COMPLAINT (search for Gray):
mjktrustee.com/pdf/Amended_Complaint.pdf

How to make money the Khashoggi-way (2006 update):
indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/04/338682.html

Gray at Toronto Inquiry May 2004:
911inquiry.org/Weblog.htm

According to Hopsicker and another speaker (Mathias Broeckers), Gray sponsored the event with 15000$.

That's one side of the coin. The other side is not so easy to prove (no mainstream media reports): Khashoggi seems to have business connections to Wally Hilliard, the owner of Huffmann Aviation. That's of course the little flight school in Venice where Atta and Al-Shehhi took their lessons.
indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/10/298507.html

chipmunk stew

9th June 2006, 01:20 PM

Whooaaa, the new(er) guy around here grabs the handle of the turn out and puts you trekkers back on track.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5979

yuk, yuk , yuk:

PLEASE EVERYONE IN THE WORLD CONTACT KODAK AND PRESSURE THEM TO RELEASE THIS INFO.

Makes ya wonder where that 'world' is.Tee hee hee! Snicker snicker!
This might be stretching it a bit but I got to thinking that since NO NAMES have been released associated with the KODAK WATERMARK possibility, that maybe a disgruntled employee might shed some light in this regard. Found someone, an article that not only struck me because there is mention of 'other' unspecified reasons for firing the guy, but also references to 9/11. Maybe this is really taking us nowhere, but there again maybe somebody ought to check this guy out in the NY White Pages for telephone number --
******
Kodak fires man
over 'gay' stance
23-year veteran of global film giant
objected to pro-homosexual memo

chipmunk stew

9th June 2006, 01:23 PM

Khashoggis Connections:
politicalfriendster.com/showPerson.php?id=174&name=Adnan-Khashoggi

Khashoggi, BCCI and Iran Contra:
fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/19rogers.htm

Genesis Intermedia Fraud:
businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_19/b3832095_mz020.htm
AMENDED COMPLAINT (search for Gray):
mjktrustee.com/pdf/Amended_Complaint.pdf

How to make money the Khashoggi-way (2006 update):
indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/04/338682.html

Gray at Toronto Inquiry May 2004:
911inquiry.org/Weblog.htm

According to Hopsicker and another speaker (Mathias Broeckers), Gray sponsored the event with 15000$.

That's one side of the coin. The other side is not so easy to prove (no mainstream media reports): Khashoggi seems to have business connections to Wally Hilliard, the owner of Huffmann Aviation. That's of course the little flight school in Venice where Atta and Al-Shehhi took their lessons.
indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/10/298507.htmlHi again, Empress!

For the sake of expediency, I'll grant you that Loose Change and John Gray are COINTELPRO. There, now that we have that settled, what's the REAL story behind 9/11?

dubfan

9th June 2006, 01:33 PM

And the official story says there was an "inferno" inside the Death Star.

http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/Crylol.gif

Childlike Empress

9th June 2006, 01:35 PM

I'll grant you that Loose Change and John Gray are COINTELPRO.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Dylan and the boys are willingly spreading disinformation. You know better than i do what led them to make a "second edition". I'm saying that they get promotion because their movie doesn't contain the key issues.

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 01:37 PM

And the official story says there was an "inferno" inside the Death Star.

http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/Crylol.gif

That picture's a pixelated mess! How you can expect to determine anything from it is beyond me.

realitybites

9th June 2006, 01:45 PM

Please note that the entire Death Star is reduced to nothing but pulverized dust. Evidence indicative of an obvious free-fall collapse.

Now.... how exactly one free falls in space, I'm not sure. But I do know that Joos (dressed as Ewoks) had something to do with it.

60hzxtl

9th June 2006, 01:55 PM

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Dylan and the boys are willingly spreading disinformation. You know better than i do what led them to make a "second edition". I'm saying that they get promotion because their movie doesn't contain the key issues.

Their "movie" doesn't contain much of anything of substance.

Their "movie" often grabs one contradictory statement, (see the one about finding Flt 93 still flying .) often made under duress, or in confusion, and gives it more gravity than a dozen assessments made when all the facts were in.

Their "movie" is about themselves actually, and very little else.

dubfan

9th June 2006, 02:03 PM

That picture's a pixelated mess! How you can expect to determine anything from it is beyond me.

There's a pod plainly visible underneath the belly of the Millenium Falcon.

chipmunk stew

9th June 2006, 02:13 PM

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Dylan and the boys are willingly spreading disinformation. You know better than i do what led them to make a "second edition". I'm saying that they get promotion because their movie doesn't contain the key issues.And what I'm saying is:
We're in total agreement that Loose Change is crap, yes? So what are the key issues?

edit: No one here is really interested in hearing a conspiracy about a conspiracy. What I'd like to know is, if we should dismiss Loose Change, which both you and I agree we should, then what do you feel we should focus on instead?

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 02:32 PM

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 02:33 PM

There's a pod plainly visible underneath the belly of the Millenium Falcon.

Nice try, that's obviously a power coupler.

Sentinel

9th June 2006, 02:37 PM

Did you here the latest?

Dylan's going Hollywood,LOL.

Sentinel

Sentinel

9th June 2006, 02:38 PM

"We made nice with the Naudet Brothers, Thats all we can say"

:-D for Dope

Sentinel

Pardalis

9th June 2006, 02:41 PM

And the official story says there was an "inferno" inside the Death Star.

http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/Crylol.gif

Is it me or the ring was added later? That's suspicious...

Pardalis

9th June 2006, 02:42 PM

Did you here the latest?

Dylan's going Hollywood,LOL.

Sentinel

That was to be expected. Link?

chipmunk stew

9th June 2006, 02:45 PM

Nothing personal, Sentinel, but I'm putting you on ignore, and I encourage the rest of you to follow suit.

Sentinel

9th June 2006, 02:47 PM

Check his Myspace, its on the top where it says "Hollywood".

Still charging at the door I see.

"Aggressive Marketing"

I bet the interview I did with them will be on it for spite, the interview I did with them when they said it was suppoed to be a documentary not anti-gov disimformation. I guess thats the reason Jason didn't come along because it was the first time I met them at the Memorial they never said they were together. Especialy when Jason stated on the extra that "he wasn't with these people and that he didn't know not one person here no not one person"

Sentinel

Sentinel

Sentinel

9th June 2006, 02:50 PM

Pardalis

9th June 2006, 02:53 PM

Nothing personal, Sentinel, but I'm putting you on ignore, and I encourage the rest of you to follow suit.

Done. ;)

Sentinel

9th June 2006, 02:57 PM

"Willful and Knowing" "Agressive marketing campaign"

Not trying to spread controversial message just trying to be a vultures after the carcasses. Sounds like fraud to me.

I like lawyers now.

Sentinel

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 02:58 PM

WOW,

another fan I see.

I guess the chipmunk aproves of people disrespecting memorials for dead people. Yeah, thats what it is anothert twelve year loose and strange fan.
Ignore me and go run to get your truth from a known disimfo goon, really smart.

Nothing personal tool

Sentinel

What are you on about? Are you insinuating that we get our information from Dylan? Do you realize the purpose of this thread?

Sentinel

9th June 2006, 02:58 PM

Whaaaaaa , I'm telling my mommy.

Freaking tools

Sentinel

bob_kark

9th June 2006, 02:59 PM

Whaaaaaa , I'm telling my mommy.

Freaking tools

Sentinel

Well, if we weren't ignoring you before...

60hzxtl

9th June 2006, 02:59 PM

But just look at these kids -

They will keep chasing shadows, and ghosts, and boogie-men, because it's self perpetuating - you never catch them, they are just around the next corner.

But bring the hammer down on a real bad guy and they whine:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=5916&st=90

And they are still whining!

Kent1

9th June 2006, 02:59 PM

There's a pod plainly visible underneath the belly of the Millenium Falcon.

Was thermite used on the Madrid towers??? More evidence!!!!
The official reports do not adequately address the issue of molten metal.

http://www.iht.com/getina/files/225478.html

Bright orange and red flames devoured the building, initially ravaging the upper floors before spreading downward, stripping away its metal and glass shell in twisted pieces to expose the smoldering concrete skeleton. Giant fireballs were seen rising into the night sky as parts of its sides collapsed, raining fire and molten metal onto the streets below.

LOL!!

Regnad Kcin

9th June 2006, 03:00 PM

Sentinal, is English a second language for you? Third? Seventeenth?

No offense.

Sentinel

9th June 2006, 03:01 PM

The_Fire

9th June 2006, 03:04 PM

Nothing personal, Sentinel, but I'm putting you on ignore, and I encourage the rest of you to follow suit.

Done.

Hellbound

9th June 2006, 03:04 PM

You would think that someone bringing imformation about someone being discused on this board would be respected. But it seems the people on the left act just like the people on the right.

Coincidence or coinci-dunce?

Sentinel

Actually, it's just that we expect evidence when someone pops on making accusations.

We don't respect the opinions of nutballs on the left or right, unless they can back up thier claims.

Regnad Kcin

9th June 2006, 03:06 PM

You would think that someone bringing imformation about someone being discused on this board would be respected. But it seems the people on the left act just like the people on the right.Please don't play the victim. It's unseemly.

In any event, there are those engaged in this topic whose political views place them all over the political spectrum. This is not a "left vs. right" debate, making your point invalid.

This is a forum dedicated to critical thinking. You're welcome to contribute, but don't expect non-critical thinking to be given a pass.

Kent1

9th June 2006, 03:10 PM

You would think that someone bringing imformation about someone being discused on this board would be respected. But it seems the people on the left act just like the people on the right.

Coincidence or coinci-dunce?

Sentinel
What is your story anyway?
Do you believe 9/11 was an inside job. I've heard all sorts of strange claims about you?

Childlike Empress

9th June 2006, 03:12 PM

We're in total agreement that Loose Change is crap, yes? So what are the key issues?
No, it isn't crap. It contains a lot of errors and hearsay and is by far not good enough to convince people like you that the official CT is crap.

The key issues? The cover-up is the key issue.

1. The USA is a constitutional republic. Mass murder is the most serious crime one can commit. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation "USA vs. Unknown, case: the massmurder of September 11th 2001"? Instead of this the FBI came up on the first day with this list of 19 Highjackers which wasn't changed till then, they showed us a crappy videostill of Atta entering an Airport, his passport and a Koran and a Testament in his alleged car. Where is the chain of evidence for the official CT?

2. The FBI investigated in Florida for a few weeks, then they were ordered back to investigate the "Anthrax letters". They never returned and a lot of people say, the FBI told them not to talk about their experiences. Who was behind the anthrax letters the FBI so diligently investigated?

3. The people I mentioned in 2. were interviewed by Daniel Hopsicker - he has to do the work of the whole investigative apparatus of the US. He found out that Mohammed Attas trail leads directly into the international organized crime scene and that the "Commision Report" can indeed be called an "Omission Report".

4. Evidence was destroyed or is under closure.

5. The Legend was tweaked several times and people like the alleged masterminds Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh are not on trial or were even allowed to witness in the Moussaoui-trial.

6. "Coincidently", parts of the "Truth movement" have connections to the very same people that should be under investigation and their net of "woo"-spreading clowns.

YOU are the people who don't get the bigger picture - not the folks over at the LC Forum.

furrod

9th June 2006, 03:24 PM

Mr. X: Welcome gentlemen. Some of you have already been briefed and the others can find details of The Plan in the dossier before you. This meeting is being recorded and will be transcribed for our secret records. Per PNAC policy, we will be using our code names today in case the room is bugged or if the recording were to fall into enemy hands.

Mr. Pink: Code names? Why do we have to use our code names? I hate my code name.

Mr. X: We’ve been over this before, Mr. Pink. Everyone has a color, selected randomly.

Mr. Pink: Why can’t we pick our own colors? I’ve always wanted to be Mr. Purple.

Mr. X: We tried that before and everyone started bickering over who was going to be Mr. Black. It isn’t worth the aggravation. You are Mr. Pink, you’re going to stay Mr. Pink and I don’t want to hear another word about it!

Mr. Pink: Oh, fine.

Mr. X: Now, if you open your dossier to the first page you will see a brief synopsis of The Plan.

Mr. Pink (reading): …Are you ****ing serious? You want to start a war… by blowing up the World Trade Center?

Mr. X: Yes, but if you read beyond the first paragraph you’ll see that the Plan entails more than just that.

Mr. Pink: How did you dream up a crazy stunt like this?

Mr. X: I’m glad you asked. I happened to be browsing through some old declassified files one evening when I came across a document called Operation Northwood, which you’ll find a copy of in the Appendences. You’ll see that it was rather modest in scope but it had some rather intriguing elements. Of course that pussy, Kennedy, never implemented it.

Mr. Orange (snickering): We taught that guy a lesson, didn’t we? (high-fives with Mr. Red, sitting next to him)

Mr. Pink: Uh, you want to fill the World Trade Center with college students, blow it up and blame the Cubans? ….Can they be Berkley college students?

Mr. X: Nooo, the plan is to fake a terrorist attack on four prominent US targets, using four hijacked airliners, and then use it as an excuse to further our agenda by declaring war on pretty much anyone we want! We’ve selected both towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, the Pentagon and the White House.

Mr. Brown: Excuse me, but I’ve received word from the White House and they are not particularly thrilled about being on the target list. I’ve been told that Mrs. Bush just finished redecorating the east wing and they are very concerned about domestic fallout, if you know what I mean. They suggest we cancel that portion of the plan or select a new target.

Mr. X: Hmmm, it’s a little late to be switching targets now and I do so hate to cancel….

Mr. Brown: How about we just shoot the plane down and say they intended to hit the White House? That should be nearly as effective, particularly if we play up the human tragedy angle.

Mr. White: How about tearful last phone calls to loved ones from the doomed passengers on their cell phones? We could prerecord those so they sound suitably gut-wrenching and authentic!

Mr. Orange: …and a heroic but ill-fated last stand by the passengers. The public will go ape-**** over a drama like that!

Mr. X: Fantastic ideas, gentlemen! Truly diabolical.

Mr. Pink: You know, the last time I tried to use my cell phone in flight it didn’t work very well.

Mr. X: Don’t worry about things like that! We’ll figure out some sort of explanation later.

Mr. Pink (intently reading the dossier): It’s not really clear - are we going to crash real airliners with real passengers or are we going to fake it?

Mr. X: The plan is to fake the Pentagon flight. Mr. White has acquired a nifty cruise missile which we’ve painted with the American Airline colors. It should do the trick.

Mr. Pink: Are we doing this operation at night?

Mr. X: No, in broad daylight.

Mr. Pink: Won’t hundreds of people see the cruise missile? Won’t we need authentic looking wreckage? Won’t the crash site be investigated? You know, not everyone shares our views or even likes us. Some pretty powerful people are going to be pretty powerfully pissed about this!

Mr. X: Mr. Pink, what is with all these questions?! We’re all big picture men here. The details are for subordinates. Don’t worry, someone will handle it.

Mr. Brown: Oh, that reminds me. Some of the guys are starting to get cold feet about the Pentagon hit. They have friends there.

Mr. X: Damn it, Mr. Brown. We are not changing two plans!

Mr. Brown: How about we at least hit the side that they just reinforced? That will reduce some of the damage. We can reprogram the missile and I’ll tell our buddies to move their offices to the other side or go fishing that day.

Mr. X (waves his hand dismissively): Whatever.

(Mr. Pink raises his hand)

Mr. X (exasperated): Yes, Mr. Pink.

Mr. Pink: I’m reading here that you intend to fly a jet airliner into each of the twin towers so they will completely collapse.

Mr. X: Yes.

Mr. Pink: Will that happen? I mean, can an airliner really take down a building like that?

Mr. X (a mischievous smile across his face): It doesn’t matter.

Mr. Pink: Eh?

Mr. Orange (impatiently): God man, can’t you read? Page 76 - we’re going to secretly plant explosive charges to bring ‘em down. Controlled Dem-o-lition! (high-fives with Mr. Red, again.)

(Mr. Pink’s face gets beet-red. It looks like he is going to have an aneurism.)

Mr. Pink: Forgive me for asking but …are you all ****ing deranged? The logistics of an operation like that are immense! How can we keep it secret? Not to mention that you’re planning a controlled demolition that will be filmed and seen by the entire freakin’ world! How on earth can we get away with that?

Mr. Yellow: People are sheep, they’re stupid. Our damage control unit will manage the aftermath - threats, bribes, the usual. Most people will believe what we tell them to believe. The rest?….. (shrugs)

(Mr. Pink gets up, walks over to Mr. Yellow and starts to rap him angrily on the head.)

Mr. Pink: Hellooo, McFlyyy!!! If we get caught we won’t just go to jail, we’ll be executed, you dick! Starting wars and jacking up the defense budget are great things but not if you’re taking lethal injection! You jack-asses have concocted a scheme that even a retarded high-school reject would never believe!

Mr. Brown: Wanna bet?

Mr. Green: While we’re on the subject, is it too late to add building seven to the list? There is an interested party who would like to see that building go down also if it isn’t too much trouble.

Mr. Pink (nearly beside himself): Oh sure, building seven. Where is building seven? (Rifles through his dossier until he comes across a map of the World Trade Center Complex) Beautiful! Marvelous! And how will we explain building seven? What if no debris hits it? Will you pull it anyways for no apparent reason or leave it intact with all those demolition charges exposed?

Mr. Orange: Pink, I’m getting tired of your attitude! You’ve got to think optimistically. Reach for the brass ring! After all we have a long and glorious history of conspiracies and secrets and this will be just one more to the list. How about that alien spacecraft we’ve got in Area 51, eh? Answer me that smart-boy!

(Mr. Pink grabs Mr. Orange by the shirt collar and lifts roughly him to his feet.)

Mr. Pink: There is no alien spacecraft, you moron. Never was.

(Mr. Orange looks to Mr. X, who slowly shakes his head.)

Mr. Orange (sheepishly): Well….

Mr. X (coughs): Well! I think that Mr. Pink has brought up some valid points which we’ll have to discuss at another time. In the meantime please read your dossier before destroying it. And noooo leaking to the press! We are PNAC. And PNAC backwards spells EVIL. (Maniacal laughter from around the room.)

Mr. Pink: No-it-does-not!

Mr. X: Oh, shut-up.

CurtC

9th June 2006, 03:36 PM

furrod, that's some real talent!

RandFan

9th June 2006, 03:44 PM

1. The USA is a constitutional republic. Mass murder is the most serious crime one can commit. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation "USA vs. Unknown, case: the massmurder of September 11th 2001"? Sure, and we should have a criminal investigation into contrails (http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm), Illuminati (http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Illuminati.htm), Trilateral Commission (http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id65/pg1/index.html), IRS (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:lGckxJy7SZoJ:www.freeamerican.com/conspiracytheories.htm+IRS+conspiracy&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=netscape-pp), and of course, the JEWS.

60hzxtl

9th June 2006, 03:44 PM

Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation "USA vs. Unknown, case: the massmurder of September 11th 2001"? Instead of this the FBI came up on the first day with this list of 19 Highjackers which wasn't changed till then, they showed us a crappy videostill of Atta entering an Airport, his passport and a Koran and a Testament in his alleged car. Where is the chain of evidence for the official CT?.

Uh, no, because you don't want to have to put your evidence out before you have your case. Keeps it from being made useless. And you can't try a dead man.

2. The FBI investigated in Florida for a few weeks, then they were ordered back to investigate the "Anthrax letters". They never returned and a lot of people say, the FBI told them not to talk about their experiences. Who was behind the anthrax letters the FBI so diligently investigated?

I was case # 1160 at NBC. Wanna hear the story? It'll bore ya to tears. I'd like to know who was behind it, but I have things to do - like clean the paint cans out of the basement.

4. Evidence was destroyed or is under closure.

5. The Legend was tweaked several times and people like the alleged masterminds Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh are not on trial or were even allowed to witness in the Moussaoui-trial.

Destroyed? Closure? Huh? Just because they didn't tell you, doesn't mean it wasn't used.

KSM, and Bini, are not charged as criminals. If they were brought to the USA or used as witnesses, their intel value is gone. Buddies of yours?

Pay attention next time in philosophy class - the rules of war, and a just war were worked out a long time ago - even before Prescott Bush.

RandFan

9th June 2006, 03:48 PM

We are PNAC. And PNAC backwards spells EVIL. (Maniacal laughter from around the room.)

Mr. Pink: No-it-does-not!

Mr. X: Oh, shut-up.:D

"Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that they are not out to get you".

Childlike Empress

9th June 2006, 03:50 PM

@RandFan & 60hzxtl: Total bullsh*t.

Arkan_Wolfshade

9th June 2006, 03:52 PM

Goodness. My ignore list is growing like a weed today.

dogguy

9th June 2006, 03:55 PM

@RandFan & 60hzxtl: Total bullsh*t.

Good answer! Witty and informative at the same time. No-one could ask for anything more. (No sarcasm here)

RandFan

9th June 2006, 03:56 PM

@RandFan & 60hzxtl: Total bullsh*t. :D Touched a nerve.

RandFan

9th June 2006, 03:57 PM

@RandFan & 60hzxtl: Total bullsh*t.BTW, it's only the logical consequence of your argument. Deal with it or change your argument.

Apollyon

9th June 2006, 03:58 PM

No, it isn't crap. It contains a lot of errors and hearsay and is by far not good enough to convince people like you that the official CT is crap.

The key issues? The cover-up is the key issue.
You begin immediately with an assumption couched as a fact. It doesn't do much for your credibility nor does it present an example of open-mindedness on the issue.

1. The USA is a constitutional republic. Mass murder is the most serious crime one can commit. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation "USA vs. Unknown, case: the massmurder of September 11th 2001"? Instead of this the FBI came up on the first day with this list of 19 Highjackers which wasn't changed till then, they showed us a crappy videostill of Atta entering an Airport, his passport and a Koran and a Testament in his alleged car. Where is the chain of evidence for the official CT?
There was an investigation by the FBI. But what are they going to do when the murderers killed themselves while committing the crime?

2. The FBI investigated in Florida for a few weeks, then they were ordered back to investigate the "Anthrax letters". They never returned and a lot of people say, the FBI told them not to talk about their experiences. Who was behind the anthrax letters the FBI so diligently investigated?
A lot of people say this, or is it Hopsicker that claims this? It seems that you are basing just about all of your claims on Hopsicker. It's always wise, when formulating ideas or opinions, to get your information from a wide variety of sources.

3. The people I mentioned in 2. were interviewed by Daniel Hopsicker - he has to do the work of the whole investigative apparatus of the US. He found out that Mohammed Attas trail leads directly into the international organized crime scene and that the "Commision Report" can indeed be called an "Omission Report".
Care to outline where the 9/11 Report contained ommissions? I always hear this claim made by the CTs but it's always a general accusation with zero specifics.

4. Evidence was destroyed or is under closure.
Such as? Again, your being accusatory by making a general statement.

5. The Legend was tweaked several times and people like the alleged masterminds Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh are not on trial or were even allowed to witness in the Moussaoui-trial.
How was the legend tweaked? Are you basing that on what the media reported.

I've got news for you...the media frequently reports incorrectly, particularly when it comes to big news stories. In their rush to present a scoop they often don't verify their stories or sources. As evidence, see Katrina and even the killing of Zarqawi yesterday.

6. "Coincidently", parts of the "Truth movement" have connections to the very same people that should be under investigation and their net of "woo"-spreading clowns.
Ever heard of six degrees of seperation? If I looked hard enough I could probably connect you to the Mafia, Michael Moore, and Josef Stalin. So what?

YOU are the people who don't get the bigger picture - not the folks over at the LC Forum.
The only picture I get is that you haven't proven a single thing and most of your statements are either straw men or red herrings.

Childlike Empress

9th June 2006, 04:02 PM

BTW, it's only the logical consequence of your argument. Deal with it or change your argument.
Why? Please explain.

RandFan

9th June 2006, 04:19 PM

Why? Please explain.Your suggestion that there should be an investigation assumes that there is significant reason to doubt the prevailing wisdom for 9/11. There isn't any more reason to doubt that prevailing wisdom than there is for all of the other CT's.

So let's open investigations for all of them, why not?

Edited: My spelling and grammer have really gotten bad recently. What's up with that?

Childlike Empress

9th June 2006, 04:26 PM

You begin immediately with an asusmption couched as a fact. It doesn't do much for your credibility nor does it present an example of open-mindedness on the issue.
It's called opinion.

There was an investigation by the FBI. But what are they going to do when the murderers killed themselves while committing the crime?
There was no lawsuit. No chain of evidence. Only snatches of LC-Quality. Maximum.

A lot of people say this, or is it Hopsicker that claims this? It seems that you are basing just about all of your claims on Hopsicker. It's always wise, when formulating ideas or opinions, to get your information from a wide variety of sources.
#3

Care to outline where the 9/11 Report contained ommissions? I always hear this claim made by the CTs but it's always a general accusation with zero specifics.
The whole milieu in which they operated was omitted. The Rudys, Wolfgangs and Juergens they hung around with, the strip-clubs, the coke, the timeline and on and on. And yes, you are right. I have to base these claims on Hopsicker and the people he interviewed (like Attas girlfriend Amanda Keller). He sadly was the only one investigating.

Such as? Again, your being accusatory by making a general statement.
WTC steel, Pentagon videos... you want to tell me the surveillance camera tapes lately released compromised national security? And again, these videos where not used in a federal investigation "USA vs. Unknown" but in a laughable trial against retarded and tortured Moussaoui. (btw, i think Flight 77 hit the pentagon, don't worry).

How was the legend tweaked? Are you basing that on what the media reported.
Is the Omar Saeed Sheikh/General Mahmoud/ISI-Connection covered in the Report?

I've got news for you...the media frequently reports incorrectly, particularly when it comes to big news stories. In their rush to present a scoop they often don't verify their stories or sources. As evidence, see Katrina and even the killing of Zarqawi yesterday.
You mean like in "the most successful psyop"-Zarqawi?

prevailing wisdom
Whose prevailing wisdom? I want evidence.

I leave you for now, boys. See you later.