Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[TjW]

So, at 13, you left school and never went back. Your parents didn't try to get you into another school in another district?
Give them time. It only happened last week.

[Christophera]

Chris.

Everyone has either stopped talking to you or is now taking the piss at your expense. You have become a complete joke. Even the CTers are avoiding you like a bad smell.

Take it from us. You aren't well. I'm sufficiently worried that I'm thinking of taking the matter to the mods, because you need to get off this computer and get help

Cheers,

Architect.

ps I am postgraduate qualified in fields such as structures. Don't waste my time.

So you are familiar with the flex of steel with very long pieces?

[Bell]

So you are familiar with the flex of steel with very long pieces?

Not you again!

Please, stop, and go and seek counsel.

[Christophera]

OK, Chris - it's true. You're nuts. AND a liar. AND delusional.

This is my last post in this thread, too. However, my sig will stand (once edited) as a reminder to those who might encounter this lunatic moron...

It's like zaayrdragon never heard of the Masonic Order and the occult. The notion that the unconscious, what we do not know about, cannot exist in the mental realm, ........... it is as if zaayrdragon were saying,

I can only believe what I'm told and it doesn't matter that every president except Lincoln and Kennedy has been a Mason.

The beloved order of our grandfathers has been infiltrated in the ignorance imposed in the the secrecy aqueised to in the past. Shall we let their organization be used like this? Or shall we be afraid of the possibilities and fail to seek information to protect their reputations and our children?

Maybe you can make decisions, maybe you can only hide from them.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html


http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3080&stc=1&d=1158115719

[LashL]

That is a clear hallucination. He does seem to possess alot of elements in keeping with a number of disorders, including Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, Schizotypal PD, and Borderline PD. Hard to diagnose without a full blown one on one interview.

TAM

It's very serious. I will not post on this thread again in the circumstances but here is a snippet from one lawsuit brought by our friend:

9. Plaintiff is informed and believes and thereon alleges that Defendant Medicine man removed Plaintiffs natural memory and prerogative of choice, based therein as a child, through the use of hypnosis by using desires in Plaintiffs subconscious mind created by the Native Medicine community. Plaintiff further alleges that Defendant Medicine man then exploited the desires in a conspiracy involving Plaintiff but kept secret from the Plaintiff by the use of hypnotic memory control and consumed Plaintiffs natural life and it's benefits or rewards, psychologically, emotionally, socially, culturally and economically for a minimum of 38 years for the purpose of forcing Plaintiff to take legal action to create again an official understanding; and to make the Native Medicine community conscious of their hypnotic skills; and to recover the truth of the Chumash peoples past.

10. Plaintiff is informed and believes and thereon alleges in the exploitation of the conspiracy, Defendant Medicine man controlled Plaintiffs life dynamically without Plaintiffs conscious awareness and used hypnosis to control others to present opportunities for fulfillment of desires created artificially in Plaintiff at childhood, with hypnosis. Plaintiffs past is now comprised of bizarre events conceived by Defendant Medicine man and other Medicine people.

http://algoxy.com/missingknowledge/220comp.html

[Bell]

It's like zaayrdragon never heard of the Masonic Order and the occult. The notion that the unconscious, what we do not know about, cannot exist in the mental realm, ........... it is as if zaayrdragon were saying,

I can only believe what I'm told and it doesn't matter that every president except Lincoln and Kennedy has been a Mason.

The beloved order of our grandfathers has been infiltrated in the ignorance imposed in the the secrecy aqueised to in the past. Shall we let their organization be used like this? Or shall we be afraid of the possibilities and fail seek information to protect our children?

Maybe you can make decisions, maybe you can only hide from them.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html


http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3080&stc=1&d=1158115719

You forgot to link to the core. Where is the core? The troof is all in the core!!

[Regnad Kcin]

I can only believe what I'm told and it doesn't matter that every president except Lincoln and Kennedy has been a Mason.No. (http://www.pagrandlodge.org/mlam/presidents/)

[R.Mackey]

In light of your recent admissions, I apologize for any fun I may have had at your expense.

I understand that it is difficult to verify a person's sincerity over the Internet, but please believe that we are not your enemies.

I have some advice for you. Since you may distrust anything I write, and I understand this, I invite you to find someone you do trust in real life -- anyone, a family member, a friend, a co-worker, doesn't matter -- and ask them if they think this is a good idea. Let them judge. You don't need to take me at my word.

I would ask you to summarize, briefly, some of the things you've told us, about the Government, your experiences with public education, and the nature of political power. Then ask your trusted ally what she thinks. Ask her whether, perhaps, you should seek additional help. If the answer is yes, ask how she suggests you get help. Ask her to follow through and be there with you to make sure it's really the best thing for you, and not a trick.

You should have someone in your circle that you can trust. I would do this for my friends. I have done this for my friends.

Again, I understand if you don't trust me. It doesn't matter. You should run this idea by someone that you can count on. The whole process is in your full control.

Best of luck to you.

[Christophera]

No. (http://www.pagrandlodge.org/mlam/presidents/)

Oh Mr. Peabody,

Leave it to you to go for the documentation that exists. This can hardly matter, because today, and I'm sure in the past, we have many secret Masons, and that secret can go so far that they do not even know they are controlled by the Order.

But you wouldn't know that, don't want to know that, which is the nature of hypnosis.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3082&stc=1&d=1158119408

[Christophera]

Oh Mr. Peabody,

Leave it to you to go for the documentation that exists. This can hardly matter, because today, and I'm sure in the past, we have many secret Masons, and that secret can go so far that they do not even know they are controlled by the Order.

But you wouldn't know that, don't want to know that, which is the nature of hypnosis.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3082&stc=1&d=1158119408

Seems that the facts again put a chill on your vigor of denial Mr. Peabody and Archie. The preceding page begins to describe why the what I've posted is true. Hyperamnesia is normal. This can be reinforced with suggestion. There is a powerful inference that should, and needs to be made.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3086&stc=1&d=1158123525

Do you cognit the potentials of memory control here?

[Brainache]

In light of your recent admissions, I apologize for any fun I may have had at your expense.

I understand that it is difficult to verify a person's sincerity over the Internet, but please believe that we are not your enemies.

I have some advice for you. Since you may distrust anything I write, and I understand this, I invite you to find someone you do trust in real life -- anyone, a family member, a friend, a co-worker, doesn't matter -- and ask them if they think this is a good idea. Let them judge. You don't need to take me at my word.

I would ask you to summarize, briefly, some of the things you've told us, about the Government, your experiences with public education, and the nature of political power. Then ask your trusted ally what she thinks. Ask her whether, perhaps, you should seek additional help. If the answer is yes, ask how she suggests you get help. Ask her to follow through and be there with you to make sure it's really the best thing for you, and not a trick.

You should have someone in your circle that you can trust. I would do this for my friends. I have done this for my friends.

Again, I understand if you don't trust me. It doesn't matter. You should run this idea by someone that you can count on. The whole process is in your full control.

Best of luck to you.

Chris read what Mackey said and please for your own sake follow his wise advice.

[carlvs]

What a load of c**p! What you can't stand, Chris, is that the people here (unlike at some sites) refuse to buy into the lies that you have been pushing here. And when they point out that your "scenarioes" have no basis in fact, what do you do? You (just like every 9/11 "conspiraloon" I have ever come across) trash them in the futile hope that they will "see the light" (i.e: turn off the rational side of their brain.)

And I find it interesting that you posted two pages from a book without giving any info on your source. What are you afraid of - that someone will actually go to that book and check for themselves the context those pages appear in? Or maybe you don't want to reveal the age of your source material; the typeface on those pages looks to be rather old-fashoined...

[Christophera]

What a load of c**p! What you can't stand, Chris, is that the people here (unlike at some sites) refuse to buy into the lies that you have been pushing here. And when they point out that your "scenarioes" have no basis in fact, what do you do? You (just like every 9/11 "conspiraloon" I have ever come across) trash them in the futile hope that they will "see the light" (i.e: turn off the rational side of their brain.)

And I find it interesting that you posted two pages from a book without giving any info on your source. What are you afraid of - that someone will actually go to that book and check for themselves the context those pages appear in? Or maybe you don't want to reveal the age of your source material; the typeface on those pages looks to be rather old-fashoined...

David R, Rappaport 1964, an outstanding compilation that literally every psychologist has read.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3087&stc=1&d=1158126515

The new psychology, post 1975 or so has serious problems with dealing with memory. They literally forgot about forgetting.

[Christophera]

Chris read what Mackey said and please for your own sake follow his wise advice.

Well, flat out, again. I have evidence to support my contention, but niether you nor he has any. There is a very good chance if you cannot use reason in dealing with this issue of unconscious communications particuarly with children.

Yes, that is right, ............. Brainache, who ever you are, you could have been hypnotized as a child, given post hypnotic suggestion hinging on the explitation of instincts behind memory barriers that are triggered by conditions of somebody like me talking about a concrete core.

Everyone of your absurd denials, along with archies, graveys, all of you or any of you could be actin in a reaction to conditional programming at childhood.

The second page, "Contraindications" about hypnotizing children under five.

There are few references to this in psychology. They definitely avoid any inference concerning hyperamnesia and the potentials for memory control by post hypnotic exploiting fear. A controlling reptilian based phylogenetic instinct.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3089&stc=1&d=1158129612
http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3088&stc=1&d=1158129557

[Brainache]

Well, flat out, again. I have evidence to support my contention, but niether you nor he has any. There is a very good chance if you cannot use reason in dealing with this issue of unconscious communications particuarly with children.

Yes, that is right, ............. Brainache, who ever you are, you could have been hypnotized as a child, given post hypnotic suggestion hinging on the explitation of instincts behind memory barriers that are triggered by conditions of somebody like me talking about a concrete core.

Everyone of your absurd denials, along with archies, graveys, all of you or any of you could be actin in a reaction to conditional programming at childhood.

The second page, "Contraindications" about hypnotizing children under five.

There are few references to this in psychology. They definitely avoid any inference concerning hyperamnesia and the potentials for memory control by post hypnotic exploiting fear. A controlling reptilian based phylogenetic instinct.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3089&stc=1&d=1158129612
http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3088&stc=1&d=1158129557

Can I remind you Chris that I live in Sydney Australia?
Got an Atlas?
There weren't too many evil hypnotists in the Sutherland Shire where I grew up. My three older brothers might have noticed something. Or my Dad the cop. Oh that's right he spent 12 months in Cyprus as a peace Keeper that's when the evil hypnotist came to my house in 1971 to plant false signals that would be triggered in 2006 when a strange American mentions something about a concrete core.
You really think that is more plausible than you needing quality psychological treatment.
In short: Get help before you hurt yourself or someone else.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Well, flat out, again. I have evidence to support my contention, but niether you nor he has any. There is a very good chance if you cannot use reason in dealing with this issue of unconscious communications particuarly with children.

Yes, that is right, ............. Brainache, who ever you are, you could have been hypnotized as a child, given post hypnotic suggestion hinging on the explitation of instincts behind memory barriers that are triggered by conditions of somebody like me talking about a concrete core.

Everyone of your absurd denials, along with archies, graveys, all of you or any of you could be actin in a reaction to conditional programming at childhood.

The second page, "Contraindications" about hypnotizing children under five.

There are few references to this in psychology. They definitely avoid any inference concerning hyperamnesia and the potentials for memory control by post hypnotic exploiting fear. A controlling reptilian based phylogenetic instinct.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3089&stc=1&d=1158129612
http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3088&stc=1&d=1158129557

Oh my gawd...

[Christophera]

Can I remind you Chris that I live in Sydney Australia?
Got an Atlas?
There weren't too many evil hypnotists in the Sutherland Shire where I grew up. My three older brothers might have noticed something. Or my Dad the cop. Oh that's right he spent 12 months in Cyprus as a peace Keeper that's when the evil hypnotist came to my house in 1971 to plant false signals that would be triggered in 2006 when a strange American mentions something about a concrete core.
You really think that is more plausible than you needing quality psychological treatment.
In short: Get help before you hurt yourself or someone else.

OMG! An Aussie, a peace officer for a father, with your attitude; just about certain guy, they got to you. I appreciate you coming forward with that info even tho you couch it in ridicule.

You have no clue as to how screwed up psycholgists are. None. I have evidence, you have none of that either.

[Brainache]

OMG! An Aussie, a peace officer for a father, with your attitude; just about certain guy, they got to you. I appreciate you coming forward with that info even tho you couch it in ridicule.

You have no clue as to how screwed up psycholgists are. None. I have evidence, you have none of that either.


Hey I may not be the sanest bloke on the planet, but I know a loony when I see one. And I'm looking at one when I read your posts.

There really is no point in me pointing out to you just how absurd your assertions are if you aren't even going to consider the possibility that you may be mistaken.

I will say it again just in case: You need help. Professional help.

The world you concoct out of sinister conspiracies is not the real world, it is the product of a mind not working properly.

Hollywood doesn't make movies to mislead Chris Brown.

PBS isn't run by mindless zombies.

The architects and builders of the WTC did not include C4 in the concrete.

The photos you keep posting don't show what you say they do.

Congratulations on being the first on my ignore list.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

OMG! An Aussie, a peace officer for a father, with your attitude; just about certain guy, they got to you. I appreciate you coming forward with that info even tho you couch it in ridicule.

You have no clue as to how screwed up psycholgists are. None. I have evidence, you have none of that either.

You're seriously suggesting that evil hypnotists are prowling the streets of Sydney Australia, brainwashing the children of local constables to aid in the cover-up of a major atrocity on the other side of the world?

Are you nuts?

Is there a JREF equivelant of the Raspberry Awards? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_awards) That nominate button is just screaming for a workout.

[Belz...]

So you have finally figured out I'm not going along with your modern delusion of supremacy. Perhaps now you are informed enough to realize that there are methods of creating secrecy sufficient to design towers to be demolished.

No, we don't. We're just saying you need professional help.

[chipmunk stew]

Oh Mr. Peabody,

Leave it to you to go for the documentation that exists. This can hardly matter, because today, and I'm sure in the past, we have many secret Masons, and that secret can go so far that they do not even know they are controlled by the Order.

But you wouldn't know that, don't want to know that, which is the nature of hypnosis.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3082&stc=1&d=1158119408
Christopher, I was mocking you before when I asked how you escaped the Mind Erasers. I apologize for the mocking.

I would sincerely like to hear about the moment you realized you had been hypnotized, and how you avoid coming under the spell of the Order again.

[Christophera]

Christopher, I was mocking you before when I asked how you escaped the Mind Erasers. I apologize for the mocking.

I would sincerely like to hear about the moment you realized you had been hypnotized, and how you avoid coming under the spell of the Order again.


Do you have any evidence?

I have just posted evidence supporting my claim. Please, utilize your capacity to be reasonable. Is this too much to ask? I have good reason to believe 3000 innocent Americans have been murdered. The destruction of evidence and incidents of secrecy, deceit are too many.

For you to not use raw evidence, fail to produce any in support of your claim, then misrpresent the situation, it is unreasonable. You are fake with no evidence

Here is raw evidence of what really stood with links to universities, scanned documents of engineers descriptions INDEPENDANT of governmental interests, matching the demolition images very well. FEMA's steel columns are never seen.

http://concretecore.741.com

[einsteen]

95 pages and we still have no realistic explanation.

[Bell]

http://wtc.nist.gov/

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

95 pages and we still have no realistic explanation.

Actually, we do. Christophera is, more than likely, certifiably nuts.

[Mancman]

http://wtc.nist.gov/

Shill. ;)

[chipmunk stew]

Christopher, I was mocking you before when I asked how you escaped the Mind Erasers. I apologize for the mocking.

I would sincerely like to hear about the moment you realized you had been hypnotized, and how you avoid coming under the spell of the Order again.

Do you have any evidence?

I have just posted evidence supporting my claim. Please, utilize your capacity to be reasonable. Is this too much to ask? I have good reason to believe 3000 innocent Americans have been murdered. The destruction of evidence and incidents of secrecy, deceit are too many.

For you to not use raw evidence, fail to produce any in support of your claim, then misrpresent the situation, it is unreasonable. You are fake with no evidence

Here is raw evidence of what really stood with links to universities, scanned documents of engineers descriptions INDEPENDANT of governmental interests, matching the demolition images very well. FEMA's steel columns are never seen.

http://concretecore.741.com
Are you sure you hit the right quote button? My post had nothing to do with 9/11, WTC, concrete cores, or even evidence.

Perhaps this is your way of answering? You avoid the hypnosis by reciting the same mantra over and over again, reminding yourself that all the official documents are a hypnotic mirage, that you caught a glimpse of the real truth, and by hanging on to that glimpse with all your might, you can avoid falling victim to the mirage?

[einsteen]

http://wtc.nist.gov/

Ok then show me if you did your homework, I'm curious about the results tomorrow

http://members.lycos.nl/einsteen/

[missyvanwinkle]

Hi Chris,

I'm trying to understand and I think I need your help. Are you saying the hypnosis is subconscious?

Miss

[kevin]

einsteen - I highly recommend you spin off a new thread. This one is dead, I can't bear to read it anymore and it looks like a lot of others have decided the same.

Just don't go the route of truthseeker and spin off hundreds with no intentions of following up.

Props to chipmunk_stew for still hanging in there.

[Bell]

Ok then show me if you did your homework, I'm curious about the results tomorrow

http://members.lycos.nl/einsteen/

First off, you said that after 95 pages there was no realistic explanation. I just pointed to the NIST website, as they have investigated the collapses.

Second, even though I'm not qualified to examine the collapse, I find nothing courious about it, and that includes the squibs (giggle). And the fact that almost all structural engineer agrees with the findings, does prove a point, I'd say.

I've seen the conclusions of the NIST investigation, not the entire report where for examples all the calculations are presented. I confesse, I'm not as smart or as educates as some around here. That doesn't mean I can have an opinion on something.

[Christophera]

First off, you said that after 95 pages there was no realistic explanation. I just pointed to the NIST website, as they have investigated the collapses.

Second, even though I'm not qualified to examine the collapse, I find nothing courious about it, and that includes the squibs (giggle). And the fact that almost all structural engineer agrees with the findings, does prove a point, I'd say.

I've seen the conclusions of the NIST investigation, not the entire report where for examples all the calculations are presented. I confesse, I'm not as smart or as educates as some around here. That doesn't mean I can have an opinion on something.

The NIST report is a fraud, and the structural information it is based on is a fraud. We have an alternative to the fraudulent self interested government spun reports we have August Domel Ph.d ST, PE,


August Domel, Jr., Ph.D., S.E., P.E. November 2001

Groundbreaking for construction of the World Trade Center took place on August 5, 1966.Tower One, standing 1368 feet high, was completed in 1970, and Tower Two, at 1362 feet high, was completed in 1972. The structural design for the World Trade Center Towers was done by Skilling, Helle, Christiansen and Robertson. It was designed as a tube building that included a perimeter moment-resisting frame consisting of steel columns spaced on 39-inch centers. The load carrying system was designed so that the steel facade would resist lateral and gravity forces and the interior concrete core would carry only gravity loads.

Dr. Domel received a Ph.D. from the University of Illinois at Chicago in 1988 and a Law Degree from Loyola University in 1992. He is a licensed Structural Engineer and Attorney at Law in the .State of Illinois and a Professional Engineer in twelve states, including the State of New York. Dr. Domel is authorized by the Department of Labor (OSHA) as a 10 and 30 hour construction safety trainer.

http://www.ncsea.com/downloads/wtcseerp.pdf


It is not competent to use information that is not consistent with physical evidence and Domels work is consistent with the evidence linked below.

concrete core of WTC 2 (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif)

[Christophera]

Yeah. Stonehenge was built over a period of nearly a thousand years, giving the folks plenty of time to correct things and get them lined up like they wanted them.
German Wikipedia so that you can see that it isn't a US Gov shill site. (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge)

English Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge)

British Stonehenge site. (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1914)

Uh huh, why did they WANT them so accurate?

[defaultdotxbe]

The NIST report is a fraud, and the structural information it is based on is a fraud. We have an alternative to the fraudulent self interested government spun reports we have August Domel Ph.d ST, PE,


August Domel, Jr., Ph.D., S.E., P.E. November 2001

Groundbreaking for construction of the World Trade Center took place on August 5, 1966.Tower One, standing 1368 feet high, was completed in 1970, and Tower Two, at 1362 feet high, was completed in 1972. The structural design for the World Trade Center Towers was done by Skilling, Helle, Christiansen and Robertson. It was designed as a tube building that included a perimeter moment-resisting frame consisting of steel columns spaced on 39-inch centers. The load carrying system was designed so that the steel facade would resist lateral and gravity forces and the interior concrete core would carry only gravity loads.

Dr. Domel received a Ph.D. from the University of Illinois at Chicago in 1988 and a Law Degree from Loyola University in 1992. He is a licensed Structural Engineer and Attorney at Law in the .State of Illinois and a Professional Engineer in twelve states, including the State of New York. Dr. Domel is authorized by the Department of Labor (OSHA) as a 10 and 30 hour construction safety trainer.

http://www.ncsea.com/downloads/wtcseerp.pdf


It is not competent to use information that is not consistent with physical evidence and Domels work is consistent with the evidence linked below.

concrete core of WTC 2 (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif)

have you foudn anyone that saw the core firsthand and can describe it? maybe construction workers?

[defaultdotxbe]

Uh huh, why did they WANT them so accurate?

if you follow the links back chris is attempting to connect the builders of a 5000 year old stone monument to some modern secret society

5000 years, must be taking the scenic route to global domination

[Christophera]

if you follow the links back chris is attempting to connect the builders of a 5000 year old stone monument to some modern secret society

5000 years, must be taking the scenic route to global domination

Why is the notion of the Druids using the circadian rythm with a precision so hard for you to grasp? Then that mixing with Egyptian which takes it a little too far into secrecy,

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3110&stc=1&d=1158207733

[LashL]

Seriously, people, this thread should be left to die. Chris is clearly not well, has a long history of psych issues that continue to the present, and I fear that by feeding this thread, we may be also feeding his illness.

The transcript of the trial relating to the little snip I provided above is clear and unambiguous. It provides clear and sad evidence of Chris' mental problems. I really think that we, collectively, should - out of kindness - let this thread die because further discussion (despite the fact that he is dead wrong about everything he's ever posted here, and despite the fact that so many here have proven that repeatedly) will only serve to exacerbate his obvious, longstanding mental health problems.

It is better to just let the thread die and hope (and encourage) that he seeks and obtains the help that he requires. For the love of all that is good and rational and (for those with a religious bent) holy, I truly hope that he does follow up on the advice that Mackey provided above.

Christophera: if you are reading this, please take to heart the advice Mackey offered above and talk to someone you know and trust, and please seek assistance accordingly. I genuinely hope that you are successful in that regard.

[defaultdotxbe]

Why is the notion of the Druids using the circadian rythm with a precision so hard for you to grasp? Then that mixing with Egyptian which takes it a little too far into secrecy,

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3110&stc=1&d=1158207733

1: druids didnt build stonehenge, its older than that (try some research)

2: ancient cultures with advanced knowledge of astrony is not hard for me to grasp, its the bearing these cultures seem to have on world events 5000 years later, if its the same group of people running the show they deserve to rule simply on their patience

[ktesibios]

Seriously, people, this thread should be left to die. Chris is clearly not well, has a long history of psych issues that continue to the present, and I fear that by feeding this thread, we may be also feeding his illness.


I agree with LashL. While a psychologist friend to whom I wrote about this situation tells me that it's unlikely that someone who actively seeks confrontation about delusionally held beliefs will be harmed by argument, it's certain that contradiction will accomplish no good purpose. "Thought-disordered" (her term) beliefs are not amenable to evidence or arguement; the person holding them will simply adjust their DIY reality to ensure that the beliefs remain protected. That is exactly what we have seen happen repeatedly over dozens of pages.

The best thing to do, now that the realization is sinking in that everyone has been trying to argue with an illness, is to leave it alone and hope that Chris finds effective help. In fact, I think it would be well for the mods to close this thread.

[Christophera]

Seriously, people, this thread should be left to die. Chris is clearly not well, has a long history of psych issues that continue to the present,

A stuffy erroneous bore to say the least. No evidence.

We have a real problem with unaccountabilty of government. Examine. a letter failing to appear on subpoena. Think what you like, but I have the evidence that my local government violates State subpoena law and American rights. Yo have no evidence of anything, at all.

And, .......... you've already shown that the lives of 3000 Americans are un important to you so you won't care about this, which has cost a few more lives because the county refuses to follow through with appropriate mental health care. Thi sletter admits to failing to appear on subpoena and the inteference of witnesses.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3113&stc=1&d=1158218686

[Christophera]

1: druids didnt build stonehenge, its older than that (try some research)

2: ancient cultures with advanced knowledge of astrony is not hard for me to grasp, its the bearing these cultures seem to have on world events 5000 years later, if its the same group of people running the show they deserve to rule simply on their patience

I haven't been able to track down any sure group of people beside the Druids. You should provide a link, or do you not have any evidence also?

Certainly you know nothing of oral histories and racial histories. ever read a history book? What does CIRCA mean? What does it stand for?

[MortFurd]

A stuffy erroneous bore to say the least. No evidence.

We have a real problem with unaccountabilty of government. Examine. a letter failing to appear on subpoena. Think what you like, but I have the evidence that my local government violates State subpoena law and American rights. Yo have no evidence of anything, at all.

And, .......... you've already shown that the lives of 3000 Americans are un important to you so you won't care about this, which has cost a few more lives because the county refuses to follow through with appropriate mental health care. Thi sletter admits to failing to appear on subpoena and the inteference of witnesses.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3113&stc=1&d=1158218686
That letter admits to not being able to provide arrest records from 1876-1879. If you requested something else from them, then maybe you should state that. If you did request records from 1876-1879, then I'm really sorry but there's a very excellent chance that they don't exist any more.

ETA:
Drat it. I said I was going to stop arguing. Sorry. Last time.

[chipmunk stew]

I wish you the best, Christopher. I apologize for beating up on you.

[Parsman]

Christophera- Stonehenge was built around about 2000 years BCE. The Druids (the real ones and not the made up 19th century fairy tale that some people profess to follow) were part of Celtic culture which did not reach the British Isles until much later. If you understood history at all, you would understand that. But given your views on WTC I guess facts won't matter to you on this either.

[missyvanwinkle]

Hi Chris,

Hmmm, looks like I'm confused again. Could you explain how the letter you cite from the Santa Barbara sherrif's department provides you with evidence of witness tampering (or is "interference of witnesses" different from witness tampering? Just curious.

I read the article and your note and just don't see what you're reading.

Missy

P.S. I am still curious about the last two pieces of evidence you presented on hypnosis. Did I understand your point to be: the hypnosis you refer to is subconscious?

P.P.S. Is there a quick answer on how to refer to an attachment in another person's post until I am able to send URLs? I was hopeful of being able to send the 2 documents Chris was using for evidence so he wouldn't have to paw back through a bunch of other notes to review them.

A stuffy erroneous bore to say the least. No evidence.
...
This letter admits to failing to appear on subpoena and the inteference of witnesses.
...

[Z]

ZaayrDragon calls Pax Draconis Letum et Lux on Christopher A. Brown.

[Belz...]

ZaayrDragon calls Pax Draconis Letum et Lux on Christopher A. Brown.

Lux ? He's a friend of mine.

http://web.bvu.edu/students/spootyl/images/lucifer%20flipped.jpg

[NobbyNobbs]

OMG! An Aussie, a peace officer for a father, with your attitude; just about certain guy, they got to you. I appreciate you coming forward with that info even tho you couch it in ridicule.

You have no clue as to how screwed up psycholgists are. None. I have evidence, you have none of that either.

Troll. Gotta be.

Your form of denial is so typical that it proves your ignorance of your own past, your ancestors and all that they stood for.

Do you know why stonehenge has the physical accuracy it does to the winter Soltice sunrise?

Actually, Stonehenge (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060621.html) isn't quite as accurate (http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/the_universe/uts/stonehenge_astro.html) as you think.

[Christophera]

Christophera- Stonehenge was built around about 2000 years BCE. The Druids (the real ones and not the made up 19th century fairy tale that some people profess to follow) were part of Celtic culture which did not reach the British Isles until much later. If you understood history at all, you would understand that. But given your views on WTC I guess facts won't matter to you on this either.

The Neolithic era is inhabited by people that are unnamed. They could easily be the ancetors of the Celts and Druids were their preisthood.

What about hte word CIRCA. What is its meaning?

[Arus808]

^^ and what does this have to do with the thread at hand?

[Christophera]

That letter admits to not being able to provide arrest records from 1876-1879. If you requested something else from them, then maybe you should state that. If you did request records from 1876-1879, then I'm really sorry but there's a very excellent chance that they don't exist any more.

ETA:
Drat it. I said I was going to stop arguing. Sorry. Last time.

Mort,

You have just attempted to diminsh a SUBPOENA to a request.

Here is a declaration, witnessed, from a person who saw the subpoenaed records one year before.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3114&stc=1&d=1158262287

[Christophera]

Hi Chris,

I'm trying to understand and I think I need your help. Are you saying the hypnosis is subconscious?

Miss

Yes, as far as I can tell, the hypnotisim I refer to is conducted unconsciously, a state I'm sure is deeper than subconscious implies.

What is most important to note is that hyperamnesia is normal with people that are hypnotized to a depth of somnambulism.

This is vital to understanding how engineers and technicians could be manipulated to build towers that were designed to be demolished and all kept in secrecy. It is unconscious.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

[defaultdotxbe]

The Neolithic era is inhabited by people that are unnamed. They could easily be the ancetors of the Celts and Druids were their preisthood.

What about hte word CIRCA. What is its meaning?

if it was built by teh ancestors of the druids that isnt the druids now is it?

and why are you so obsessed with ca?

[Christophera]

Hey I may not be the sanest bloke on the planet, but I know a loony when I see one. And I'm looking at one when I read your posts.

There really is no point in me pointing out to you just how absurd your assertions are if you aren't even going to consider the possibility that you may be mistaken.

I will say it again just in case: You need help. Professional help.

The world you concoct out of sinister conspiracies is not the real world, it is the product of a mind not working properly.

Hollywood doesn't make movies to mislead Chris Brown.

PBS isn't run by mindless zombies.

The architects and builders of the WTC did not include C4 in the concrete.

The photos you keep posting don't show what you say they do.

Congratulations on being the first on my ignore list.

You better ignore me, or you will end up knowing things you do not want to know. Also, you have NO EVIDENCE of anything whereas I have proven with evidence from climncal research that people who are hypnotized to a certain depth normally remember nothing upon emerging from the trance.

I have proven that the world of clinical psychology considers hypnosis on children under five "Too disorienting".

It is very likly you were hypnotized at age 3 if I am on ignore.

Here is an example of persons committing repugnant or anitsocial acts as a result of hypnotic suggestions.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3115&stc=1&d=1158264076

[Christophera]

if it was built by the ancestors of the druids that isnt the druids now is it?

and why are you so obsessed with ca?

Since the Druids are the last named people it is logical to assume that the they descended from the earlier peoples.

What is ca? Are you referring to my question, "What is the meaning of CIRCA?"

[Architect]

Since the Druids are the last named people it is logical to assume that the they descended from the earlier peoples.

What is ca? Are you referring to my question, "What is the meaning of CIRCA?"

Chris,

You're not well. GET HELP

While recovering, read a proper history book and find out about Neolitihic Britain. Also look into the likes of Callanish, see the dates, and have a think.

Circa means "around", eg "circa 200BC/BCE.

[defaultdotxbe]

Since the Druids are the last named people it is logical to assume that the they descended from the earlier peoples.

What is ca? Are you referring to my question, "What is the meaning of CIRCA?"

again, ancestors of druids are not druids anymore than my grandfather is me

and ca. is the abbreviation of circa genius

[Christophera]

You're seriously suggesting that evil hypnotists are prowling the streets of Sydney Australia, brainwashing the children of local constables to aid in the cover-up of a major atrocity on the other side of the world?

Are you nuts?

Is there a JREF equivelant of the Raspberry Awards? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_awards) That nominate button is just screaming for a workout.

Sharpen your sword, it is dull with cognitive distortions. The word "evil" is an ancient label that is used when indecriabable fear is felt as incomprehensible destructive capacity is witnessed.

10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.

The term "brainwashing" is another such label. Very inappropriate unles you are trying to prevent peoples understanding something which is very real and very dangerous which can be understood using research of psychology.

I have no idea where you got the idea that the unconscious compulsive hypnosis by people of or associated with the Masonic order in Australia was associated with 9-11. Are you saying that to try and confuse people?

And please, be aware that there is nothing inherently dark or evil, to use terms you will understand, about the Masons. They are our ancestors for the most part, they have been infiltrated, exploited as we have become fearfull and ignorant of their practices of unconscious communicatons, as they themselves have also become at the mandate of religion.

It is up to use to protect them, to protect ourselves from the infiltrations of their power now being used against their deepest wishes to damage us, enslave us. They need our help man, ......... can you not understand that? Get over your unreasonable fears!

[Christophera]

again, ancestors of druids are not druids anymore than my grandfather is me

and ca. is the abbreviation of circa genius

Okay, you cannot define the meaning but you have another of many abbreviations meant to obscure the true meaning of the word.

A last opportunity to show you know something. What is the deeper meaning of ca?

[Christophera]

Chris,

You're not well. GET HELP

While recovering, read a proper history book and find out about Neolitihic Britain. Also look into the likes of Callanish, see the dates, and have a think.

Circa means "around", eg "circa 200BC/BCE.

Architect

You're not competent. GET LOST

While losing yourself, search all of the "proper history books" and find that none tell you the DEEPER meaning of CIRCA and why its abbreviations got shorter and shorter.

Get evidence, of something........

[defaultdotxbe]

Okay, you cannot define the meaning but you have another of many abbreviations meant to obscure the true meaning of the word.

A last opportunity to show you know something. What is the deeper meaning of ca?

fine, what is the "deeper" meaning of circa, what did it mean the ancient egyptians? what did it mean the druids? what does it mean the tibetan numerologists of apalachia?

[Hellbound]

circa, abbreviated c. or ca.

In approximately; about; ex: born circa 1900

Latin circa, from circum, around (probably on the model of adverbs like intra, within), from circus, circle

THat's it. That's the entirety of the "hidden meaning". It's from the latin word for circle, which led to the latin word for around, circum, which led to the latin word circa, which was adapted to English.

By the way, its abbreviation hasn't gotten shorter and short, both c. and ca. have been used pretty much since the word has been used by science.

[missyvanwinkle]

I'm not understanding this, Chris.

The reference you sent with post #3764 says, "...only someone who wants to be hypnotized and who trusts the therapist can truly achieve a trance state," but in post #3802 you said, "the hypnotisim I refer to is conducted unconsciously..."

I don't understand. Can you clarify?

Miss

Yes, as far as I can tell, the hypnotisim I refer to is conducted unconsciously, a state I'm sure is deeper than subconscious implies.

What is most important to note is that hyperamnesia is normal with people that are hypnotized to a depth of somnambulism.

This is vital to understanding how engineers and technicians could be manipulated to build towers that were designed to be demolished and all kept in secrecy. It is unconscious. <URL removed because I'm new>

[NotJesus]

What is the deeper meaning of ca?

It's one half of 'caca.' (But which half?????)

[defaultdotxbe]

christopher: what does circa have to do with the druids not making stonehenge?

have you found anyone who can corroborate (firsthand) your concrete core?

[chipmunk stew]

It's like a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma encased in concrete.

[DavidJames]

It's like a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma encased in concrete.

[straight-line]Is that concrete reinforced at all?[/straight-line]

[Architect]

Architect

You're not competent. GET LOST

While losing yourself, search all of the "proper history books" and find that none tell you the DEEPER meaning of CIRCA and why its abbreviations got shorter and shorter.

Get evidence, of something........


Who built Maes Howe then?

What about Callanish? Even know where it is?

Explain to me the difference between Neolithic peoples of the British Isles!
On you go, now....keep digging that delusional hole....

[Architect]

[straight-line]Is that concrete reinforced at all?[/straight-line]

And is it C4 coated? :D

[chipmunk stew]

...the DEEPER meaning of CIRCA...
Let me take a stab at this.

Circa, as in circle, as in a band, as in a crown, as in a crown of thorns.

So when we say "circa 2000 BC", we're unconsciously mocking that time period, masking its true history...

Christopher, no one knows WTF you're talking about.

[Hellbound]

Let me take a stab at this.

Circa, as in circle, as in a band, as in a crown, as in a crown of thorns.

So when we say "circa 2000 BC", we're unconsciously mocking that time period, masking its true history...

Oooooooohhhhhhhhh kaaaaaaaaayyyy

*Huntsman backs away slowly*

:D

[Aulton]

Why are you replying to this dimwit?

I just ask...

[Bell]

Ca -> Circa -> Circle -> Stonehenge

:confused:

I have no idea.

[Hellbound]

Why are you replying to this dimwit?

I just ask...

It's kinda like watching a train wreck.

Or finding that dead, unidentifiable thing in the woods. You just have to pick up a stick...

[chipmunk stew]

Oooooooohhhhhhhhh kaaaaaaaaayyyy

*Huntsman backs away slowly*

:D
EWWW, I got CT on me (AGAIN!)
Get it off! Get it off!

[Hellbound]

EWWW, I got CT on me (AGAIN!)
Get it off! Get it off!

*Huntsman points and laughs*

He's got CooTies!!!

:D

[Christophera]

Let me take a stab at this.

Circa, as in circle, as in a band, as in a crown, as in a crown of thorns.

So when we say "circa 2000 BC", we're unconsciously mocking that time period, masking its true history...

Christopher, no one knows WTF you're talking about.

Another victim of the education conspiracy I see.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63738




CIRCA refers to circadian, as in the circadian rhythm as in the biological clock as in oral histories (hence approximate). Do you know where the term originates, which people?

[defaultdotxbe]

CIRCA refers to circadian, as in the circadian rhythm as in the biological clock as in oral histories (hence approximate). Do you know where the term originates, which people?

actually, you have that backward, circadian comes from circa, meaing around 24 hours

[Arus808]

Anyone has a link to the collapse video of WTC 7 that is NOT of the one that only shows the top half of the building? Or one that shows clearly the penthouse collapsed first?

[chipmunk stew]

CIRCA refers to circadian, as in the circadian rhythm as in the biological clock as in oral histories (hence approximate). Do you know where the term originates, which people?
Apparently, it's not going to be in any books or online sources put out by the education conspiracy I've been hypnotized by, and the Order hasn't unconsciously contacted me yet to tell me where the term originates, so you'll have to just clue me in.

[Christophera]

actually, you have that backward, circadian comes from circa, meaning around 24 hours

Apparently, it's not going to be in any books or online sources put out by the education conspiracy I've been hypnotized by, and the Order hasn't unconsciously contacted me yet to tell me where the term originates, so you'll have to just clue me in.

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/Royaltyandstuff2/Ali2.html

The Circassians, freedom-loving and bold, fought desperately and fiercely, earning themselves legendary status and respect throughout Europe and the Middle East. For one hundred years they held all the might of the Czar's armies at bay, preventing them from colonial expansion and the long-cherished Russian dream of an over-land route to India. It was said that one Circassian is worth ten of anyone else, and their struggle is best described by the great Russian poet Mikhail Lermonotov, who wrote in the times of the Russo-Caucasus wars: “Circassian treasure rueful dreams, Circassian hearth is their supreme, but freedom, freedom for the man is more than peace and motherland.”


Schools don't teach the truth.

The Circassians use the trance to keep their oral histories. The the term "circadian" originates from historians compiling oral histories from Circassians or people who learned their techniques from them. Many other indigenous peoples use the same technology. The Circassians use the Winter Solstice sunrise to create chronological accuracy as well as can be expected, or perhaps better over many generations.

Can you two even guess at how much more of our past is hidden? We've been told "We know." Better yet we've bee told we know the "truth". No wonder attitudes are what they are.

[defaultdotxbe]

who am i to argue with the raw intellectuality that is the angelfire homepage

[William Rea]

No.

You said Belz... brought up the tree analogy. I am Gumboot.

we are different people ;)

-Andrew

Show me WHERE I said that Belz brought up the tree analogy. I challenge you to demonstrate this.

[William Rea]

Yes... and your point?

-Andrew

The point being that you said the top twisted and not only can I find pictorial evidence that the top toppled there is also a caption that confirms this. Both of these things appear to be in the official report, and both of these back up my theory to an extent. The question I ask myself now is why the top didn't continue to topple once the forces were unbalanced in favour of this?

[Christophera]

That letter admits to not being able to provide arrest records from 1876-1879. If you requested something else from them, then maybe you should state that. If you did request records from 1876-1879, then I'm really sorry but there's a very excellent chance that they don't exist any more.

ETA:
Drat it. I said I was going to stop arguing. Sorry. Last time.

Failure to appear on subpoena, interfering with the appearance of a witness. (http://www.truthasaur.com/local/images/subden.gif)

The specific language indicating interference with the appearance of the witness. The words "Have been advised" and "to advise you" indicate interference.

I have been in contact with the Santa Barbara County Counsel and have been advised to return your check number 338 in the amount of $15 and to advise you that I do not have the records for the period that you have requested.

Do you promote and protect lawless government?

[Christophera]

who am i to argue with the raw intellectuality that is the angelfire homepage

Well, in that case try wikipedia,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassians

[defaultdotxbe]

Well, in that case try wikipedia,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassians

done already, i see nothing connecting them to the etymology of circa or circadian

[Christophera]

The point being that you said the top twisted and not only can I find pictorial evidence that the top toppled there is also a caption that confirms this. Both of these things appear to be in the official report, and both of these back up my theory to an extent. The question I ask myself now is why the top didn't continue to topple once the forces were unbalanced in favour of this?

Are you speaking of the north tower? Impossibly it was hit on the north side but fell south.

There is an explanation,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1207667

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3116&stc=1&d=1158274125

[Gravy]

Anyone has a link to the collapse video of WTC 7 that is NOT of the one that only shows the top half of the building? Or one that shows clearly the penthouse collapsed first?
http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc_7_cbs.mpg
I recommend downloading it and playing it at full screen.

[Bell]

Ah, crap. Forget it.

[Gravy]

The point being that you said the top twisted and not only can I find pictorial evidence that the top toppled there is also a caption that confirms this. Both of these things appear to be in the official report, and both of these back up my theory to an extent. The question I ask myself now is why the top didn't continue to topple once the forces were unbalanced in favour of this?
Because it was also falling straight down in addition to leaning and twisting.

[Brainache]

The point being that you said the top twisted and not only can I find pictorial evidence that the top toppled there is also a caption that confirms this. Both of these things appear to be in the official report, and both of these back up my theory to an extent. The question I ask myself now is why the top didn't continue to topple once the forces were unbalanced in favour of this?

From what I have read here at JREF it appears that the centre of gravity would have to shift a long way before the top could topple.


I have no idea where you got the idea that the unconscious compulsive hypnosis by people of or associated with the Masonic order in Australia was associated with 9-11. Are you saying that to try and confuse people?

Well Chris you said that the reason I and others didn't accept your loonatic assertions about the construction of the WTC was because of some post hypnotic suggestion planted by hypnotists in our childhoods.
This suggestion was supposedly triggered by mention of "cocrete cores".

Do you begin to see just how insane this is?
(I knew taking him off ignore was a mistake)

[Gravy]

it was hit on the north side but fell south.

There is an explanation,

Yes, there is.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/87904509e0b508441.jpg

[ghost707]

I started reading this thread a while back....and have just now returned to see where it is at.

Either christophera is just having fun pulling everyones' leg, or he is quite insane.

There is not a 3rd explanation that I can think of.

[Bell]

I'll go with insane. It' a bit sad, actually :(

[Z]

I see some of you discussing the Adyge. They have nothing to do with the term circa. But, then, I expect you know that already.

Whatever lifeless spirit is sending such suggestions should be properly ignored. Offer his spirit your light, but do not offer communication with his corpse.

[Christophera]

done already, i see nothing connecting them to the etymology of circa or circadian

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63738

I have to refer again to the victims of an educational conspiracy and your official etymological sources.

Let us go back into the original Latin uses relating to an insect that makes shrill noise on June 21st. The June bug.

cicada

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
ci‧ca‧da  /sɪˈkeɪdə, -ˈkɑ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-key-duh, -kah-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -das, -dae /-di/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-dee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation.
any large homopterous insect of the family Cicadidae, the male of which produces a shrill sound by means of vibrating membranes on the underside of the abdomen.
[Origin: 1350–1400; ME < L cicāda]

The relation of Latin to the circassians is historical beyond any of our records. I do believe I've made my point.

[defaultdotxbe]

I do believe I've made my point.

by taking another word from latin yet still showing no relation to cassians? no, i dont think so

besides, what difference does it make? are you saying the circassians did 911? or was it the druids? or the egyptians?

[Christophera]

by taking another word from latin yet still showing no relation to cassians? no, i dont think so

besides, what difference does it make? are you saying the circassians did 911? or was it the druids? or the egyptians?

My point is that formal oral histories of ancient earth are traditionally kept with hypnosis wherein the circadian rhythm is exploited (pioneered by the circassians) used also by the Masonic Order who has been infiltrated through its oral histories and turned against it's higher purposes or used to create towers built to demolish.

I know you won't want to understand that but pretending you don't won't look good.

[Christophera]

I'll go with insane. It' a bit sad, actually :(

You act as if we knew everything about the mind, or at least you do. (not)

Of course you cannot even prove the towers core to be as FEMA states it was by using the absolutes of the demolition photos. Where I can do it over and over.

core (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif)

The site,

http://concretecore.741.com

has redundant proof from images of the demolition as well as links to web sites of universities and engineers, not at all CT'ers as those here would term many sites.

And all here have utterly failed to explain rates f fall near free fall as well as total pulverzation, how pitiful when they act so superior.

here is the only feasible and realistic explanation for near free fall and total pulverization on the web.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

[Parsman]

I actually registered because I wanted to correct Christophera's mistaken history here (Druids built Stonehenge? Different culture/religion/history/tradition/race from the original builders and it is doubtful if any organised community use of the Stonehenge site for the whole of the celtic iron age) but reading on... you can't argue with this guy from evidence or facts can you? Sorry that this revelation came to me a bit late, but the patience and intelligence of your replies to this guy shows that you forum members of long standing have far more patience and grace than I could ever manage. I do think it would be kindest to leave him to his delusions, he won't change.

[gumboot]

You act as if we knew everything about the mind, or at least you do. (not)


While we may lack the ability to diagnose people with minor psychological disorders, if a naked man runs past me in the middle of the night howling at the moon, smearing peanut butter over his private parts, and screaming "I'm the little teapot boy, I go BOO!" I would feel fairly confident diagnosing him as [rule8]ing crazy.

-Andrew

[Bell]

You act as if we knew everything about the mind, or at least you do. (not)

Of course you cannot even prove the towers core to be as FEMA states it was by using the absolutes of the demolition photos. Where I can do it over and over.

core (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif)

The site,

http://concretecore.741.com

has redundant proof from images of the demolition as well as links to web sites of universities and engineers, not at all CT'ers as those here would term many sites.

And all here have utterly failed to explain rates f fall near free fall as well as total pulverzation, how pitiful when they act so superior.

here is the only feasible and realistic explanation for near free fall and total pulverization on the web.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Indeed I do not know everything about the mind. But is is a save guess non the less. Seriously, Christophera, SEEK HELP.

And yes, those pictures are not redundant evidence of a concrete core inside the WTC, which did not fall near free fall and did not totally pulverize. The buidings contents prety much did pulverize, however.

[Belz...]

The Neolithic era is inhabited by people that are unnamed. They could easily be the ancetors of the Celts and Druids were their preisthood.

What about hte word CIRCA. What is its meaning?

Don't forget the hyborian age. :rolleyes:

[Belz...]

Yes, as far as I can tell, the hypnotisim I refer to is conducted unconsciously, a state I'm sure is deeper than subconscious implies.

We're inventing psychological entities, now ? Does it have a concrete core and, if not, how does it relate to this thread ?

[missyvanwinkle]

Morning Chris,

I was going to try to chat with you by asking questions one at a time and waiting for individual answers, but it seems my posts were kinda' just "one in the crowd" and didn't get the attention they deseved. <smile> But, in the intervening wait time, I decided to change of my conversation.

Soooooo, from reading your recent posts, I have some new ideas and questions I need your help with:

As I understand it now, you're the only one who comprehends the enormity and interconnectedness of all these things -- but you seem to be having a difficult time persuading The Powers That Be of your knowledge. Is that right? In real life (not cyber) no one else knows what you know? Not even a friend? (You know how notoriously bad at keeping secrets they are! You can't tell friends anything without them blabbing.)

If you're the only one who gets it, then where to from here? What happens when you finally bring the evidence to light in real life and get it through everyone's thick skulls? What will the result be?

I'm apparently a victim of the system and need elucidation,
Miss
P.S. Old business:
It still wouldn't hurt my feelings if you straightened me out on the seeming disagreement between the evidence you posted that said a person undergoing hypnotism had to be a willing participant and your saying it was done unconsciously.

[QUOTE=Christophera;1923991]You act as if we knew everything about the mind, or at least you do. (not)
Of course you cannot even prove the towers core to be as FEMA states it was by using the absolutes of the demolition photos. Where I can do it over and over.
<URL clipped>
The site,
<URL clipped
has redundant proof from images of the demolition as well as links to web sites of universities and engineers, not at all CT'ers as those here would term many sites.
And all here have utterly failed to explain rates f fall near free fall as well as total pulverzation, how pitiful when they act so superior.
here is the only feasible and realistic explanation for near free fall and total pulverization on the web.

<URL clipped>

[Belz...]

I have proven that the world of clinical psychology considers hypnosis on children under five "Too disorienting".

It is very likly you were hypnotized at age 3 if I am on ignore.

Is everyone in the world hypnotised ? And, if so, why aren't you ? 'Cause I'm not from the US!

CIRCA refers to circadian, as in the circadian rhythm as in the biological clock as in oral histories (hence approximate). Do you know where the term originates, which people?

You just like to make up things as you go, don't you ? So do I, but I seel that as fiction...

[drivel...] The Circassians use the Winter Solstice sunrise to create chronological accuracy as well as can be expected, or perhaps better over many generations.

That's an unreliable clock if I ever heard of one.

The specific language indicating interference with the appearance of the witness. The words "Have been advised" and "to advise you" indicate interference.

Not necessarily.

[Belz...]

The point being that you said the top twisted and not only can I find pictorial evidence that the top toppled there is also a caption that confirms this. Both of these things appear to be in the official report, and both of these back up my theory to an extent. The question I ask myself now is why the top didn't continue to topple once the forces were unbalanced in favour of this?

It didn't topple, obviously. It tilted. Once all its supports failed, it went down. Simple as that.

[Belz...]

Are you speaking of the north tower? Impossibly it was hit on the north side but fell south.

"Impossibly" ? Based on what ?

My point is that formal oral histories of ancient earth are traditionally kept with hypnosis wherein the circadian rhythm is exploited (pioneered by the circassians) used also by the Masonic Order who has been infiltrated through its oral histories and turned against it's higher purposes or used to create towers built to demolish.

And why, oh, why would they do this ? Pray tell.

[NobbyNobbs]

While we may lack the ability to diagnose people with minor psychological disorders, if a naked man runs past me in the middle of the night howling at the moon, smearing peanut butter over his private parts, and screaming "I'm the little teapot boy, I go BOO!" I would feel fairly confident diagnosing him as [rule8]ing crazy.

-Andrew

Nominated.

And you owe me a new keyboard. Mine now has orange juice all over it.

[Belz...]

Nominated.

And you owe me a new keyboard. Mine now has orange juice all over it.

That's why I never drink while reading stuff like this.

[jhunter1163]

Christophera:

Would you mind providing me, via PM, your dealer's info? He's giving you some GOOOOOOOOOOD (rule8).

Thanks.

[Christophera]

Morning Chris,

I was going to try to chat with you by asking questions one at a time and waiting for individual answers, but it seems my posts were kinda' just "one in the crowd" and didn't get the attention they deseved. <smile> But, in the intervening wait time, I decided to change of my conversation.

Soooooo, from reading your recent posts, I have some new ideas and questions I need your help with:

As I understand it now, you're the only one who comprehends the enormity and interconnectedness of all these things -- but you seem to be having a difficult time persuading The Powers That Be of your knowledge. Is that right? In real life (not cyber) no one else knows what you know? Not even a friend? (You know how notoriously bad at keeping secrets they are! You can't tell friends anything without them blabbing.)

If you're the only one who gets it, then where to from here? What happens when you finally bring the evidence to light in real life and get it through everyone's thick skulls? What will the result be?

I'm apparently a victim of the system and need elucidation,
Miss
P.S. Old business:
It still wouldn't hurt my feelings if you straightened me out on the seeming disagreement between the evidence you posted that said a person undergoing hypnotism had to be a willing participant and your saying it was done unconsciously.

[QUOTE=Christophera;1923991]You act as if we knew everything about the mind, or at least you do. (not)
Of course you cannot even prove the towers core to be as FEMA states it was by using the absolutes of the demolition photos. Where I can do it over and over.
<URL clipped>
The site,
<URL clipped
has redundant proof from images of the demolition as well as links to web sites of universities and engineers, not at all CT'ers as those here would term many sites.
And all here have utterly failed to explain rates f fall near free fall as well as total pulverzation, how pitiful when they act so superior.
here is the only feasible and realistic explanation for near free fall and total pulverization on the web.

<URL clipped>



Morning Missy,

I had answered your last question but the garbagemen here dump bins of refuse on the thread to try and obscure the good information that is here. My answer is on the previous page.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57426&page=96

No I'm not the only one that comprehends but I'm the only one that is aware of how vital it is to gain an understanding.

What is unconscious is better than secret. So those with secrets do not even know they have them.

Not sure what evidence you refer to or the seeming disagreement but I'll give a conprehensive explanation to what think you are asking.

The knowledge of hypnosis is corrupted and generally people are led to believe that if a person des not want to be hypnotised they cannot be. Generally this would be true. Take a situation where a person was hypnotized at childhood, given what is called a "deep trance basis". That basis creattes a ready made state of hypnotic rapport. That person can often be placed in a trance and they cannot resist or without theie knowing it.

The other side, the ancient hypnosists, have been driven into an exclusive unconscious state and enter post hypnotically into a trance and conduct potent hypnosis that might be capable of taking a person who has no basis, directly into a deep state, depending on the person.

Most importantly is the hyperamnesia,

INFERENCE ONE

BASIS 1 of INFERENCE

The first sentance of page 175 of EMOTIONS and MEMORY, 1964, by David Rappaport,

"The general tendency" of the subject to forget the events of the trance after emerging from it."

BASIS 2 of INFERENCE

(1) of the same paragraph states that, "The hypnotist can successfully suggest that no posthypnotic amnesia develop".

Basis 2 Restated; Suggestion conducive to remembering is successful or generally, suggestion effecting memory has effect against a general tendancy.

CONDITIONS OF BASIS

The first note page 175, EMOTIONS and MEMORY, Note #8 states (first note below main text) that the results of memory described "in general are valid only with subjects who are able to reach the somanmbulistic stages ofhypnosis."

INFERENCE ONE

Logical inference of BASIS 1 with BASIS 2, is that; suggestion to forget will have a greater effect on memory because of the general "tendency to forget". Research confirms with observations of behavior consistent with general hyperamnesia at the top of page 176, the end of a footnote that begins on page 175 stating;

"we find hypnotized people indignantly denying they have been hypnotized."

INFERENCE ONE

If the tendancy is to forget following hypnosis that induces a trance to the level of somanmbulism and suggection effecting memory is successful then suggestion to forget will be more effective than suggestion to remember.


http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3127&stc=1&d=1158350385
http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3128&stc=1&d=1158350421

[T.A.M.]

Parsman:

Welcome to the JREF Skeptics Forum on Consipracy Theories.


Gravy:

Man that is the best picture I have seen to show the magnitude of the fires...jhc thats a fire.

TAM

[Christophera]

Is everyone in the world hypnotised ? And, if so, why aren't you ? 'Cause I'm not from the US!

"Whiskey in the morning, mmmmmm, mmmmmmmmm, good !! :)," he wrote.

"His name is Trench. you will come to know him as the Angel of Death," Gill wrote at another point on his vampirefreaks.com profile.

In our local paper it was noted that the shooter had made a an internet posting on Dec 23rd "Vengence is coming".

I'm certain that all this is to subtle for you or that you do not care. If the info at,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Does not compel compassion for the victims of the education conspiracy, the shooting of 19 Canadians won't

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060914/ap_on_re_ca/canada_college_shooting

In the Santa Barbara area the son of the producer of Amy Mcbeal kiilled four and upon exiting his car he said, "I am the angel of death."

Feb. 23 Isla Vista. David Attias intentionally kills 4 with car. (http://truthasaur.com/local/images/ivcarkiller1.gif)

[Architect]

Chris,

Look into the eyes, not around the eyes, look into the eyes.....you have not been hypnotised, you will take your medication......and.... 1....2.....3......<click>

[Architect]

Who built Maes Howe then?

What about Callanish? Even know where it is?

Explain to me the difference between Neolithic peoples of the British Isles!
On you go, now....keep digging that delusional hole....

Having trouble with this Chris? Not had time to tell me about Maes Howe? let's make it easy....tell me about Dun Carloway.....or Mousa.....who built them? Druids? Asterix? Celts? Rangers?

[Parsman]

TAM thanks for the welcome.

Architect, it is clear there is no point asking Christopera questions (which is odd given that CTers are all about the questions it seems to me from reading this forum) - he will just claim we have all been hypnotized to remember ALL the wrong things and only he has escaped this world wide conspiracy of mesmerism... actually even for these misguided people, he is really out there isn't he?

And you can't help but be impressed by the skills of our ancestors if you do stand at Maes Howe while the sun rises, not sure that the current evidence is that we have made much progress in the last 4,000 years though.

[Belz...]

No I'm not the only one that comprehends but I'm the only one that is aware of how vital it is to gain an understanding.

The only one, eh ? Well, isn't that special.

What is unconscious is better than secret. So those with secrets do not even know they have them.

The unconscious isn't like in hollywood movies, chris. It's not a separate entity that does stuff without your consent and has its own agenda. It just doesn't work that way. The only way to have two minds is to have your brain hemispheres separated, physically.

The knowledge of hypnosis is corrupted and generally people are led to believe that if a person des not want to be hypnotised they cannot be. Generally this would be true.

No, that is ALWAYS true, because the person beign hypnotised is really the one PERFORMING the hypnotism. There is no way to hypnotise a reluctant subject because he's hypnotising himself. You can do it at home if you want.

[Belz...]

"His name is Trench. you will come to know him as the Angel of Death," Gill wrote at another point on his vampirefreaks.com profile.

I'm well aware of what happened here, this week, chris. Thank you.

The man was crazy. He should've gotten psychological help. He didn't. People died. There are people with mental problems, chris. Deal with it. In fact, you should deal with your own.

[Christophera]

I'm well aware of what happened here, this week, chris. Thank you.

The man was crazy. He should've gotten psychological help. He didn't. People died. There are people with mental problems, chris. Deal with it. In fact, you should deal with your own.

I've been trying to get help for crazies (or people programmed to kill) since 1998 when the county failed to appear on subpoena duces tecum. That is what the Failure to appear on subpoena, interfereing with the appearance of a witness. (http://www.truthasaur.com/local/images/subden.gif) was about.

Then later the senior director of the mental health department understood and approved of a treatment direct to the unconscious I researched, modified and proposed. They were looking for permission from the state of California to administer it. Their superiors stopped them. Their superiors are like you. They like things the way they are and do ont want anyone to know about the unconscious mind.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3130&stc=1&d=1158355844

[Parsman]

Does that letter from the county seem to anyone else like a pro-forma to fend off the weird and strange that they have to deal with from time to time? Certainly doesn't seem like a ringing endorsement of Christophera's "treatment" to me.

[Bell]

Christopher, serious. Please seek help. Contact that mental health department you mentioned and ask for personal help. Don't be afraid. It is for your own good. You are not well.

[Christophera]

Does that letter from the county seem to anyone else like a pro-forma to fend off the weird and strange that they have to deal with from time to time? Certainly doesn't seem like a ringing endorsement of Christophera's "treatment" to me.

That they seek permisson to administer the treatment is a defacto approval signed by the chief medical doctor on behalf of the director.

We had a mass murderer here that had been evaluated by the mental health department, after the director that wrote that letter resigned. 7 were killed in the post office.

Notice that belz ignores the date/numerological coincedences between the montreal shootings and the Attias killings here of 4 with a car. Will you ignore the connection too?

http://truthasaur.com/local/secretcity48.html

[Christophera]

No, that is ALWAYS true, because the person beign hypnotised is really the one PERFORMING the hypnotism. There is no way to hypnotise a reluctant subject because he's hypnotising himself. You can do it at home if you want.

9-11 was carried out partially by people acting unconsciously. The towers were designed to be demolished by people who thought they were doing something for one reason, when actually they were doing it for another.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Just like the core of the towers was concrete, and I have the evidence,

http://concretecore.741.com

People can be hypnotized even if they do not want to be hypnotized. Bottom paragraph. You are wrong and I've proven it. Now will you act to protect lives with your knowledge?

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3131&stc=1&d=1158357359

[Christophera]

Christopher, serious. Please seek help. Contact that mental health department you mentioned and ask for personal help. Don't be afraid. It is for your own good. You are not well.



Bell, serious. Please seek to protect lives. Use information of mental health that has been made available to you. Personally help. Don't be afraid. It is for your own good. Do not be a moron ushering the end of civilization.

[missyvanwinkle]

I've managed to follow some of the more elusive threads (or so I thought,) but I can't interpret this one I'm afraid.
BUT, I'll let that part go (assuming I just "don't get it," and probably won't ever be able to) but my next question was:
Where to from here? I mean, if you can ever get some of the rest of us dolts to understand -- the more important/powerful ones amongst us presumably -- then what happens?

Miss

[QUOTE=missyvanwinkle;1924305]Morning

Morning Missy,
...No I'm not the only one that comprehends but I'm the only one that is aware of how vital it is to gain an understanding.

What is unconscious is better than secret. So those with secrets do not even know they have them.

Not sure what evidence you refer to or the seeming disagreement but I'll give a conprehensive explanation to what think you are asking. ...

[Christophera]

I'm well aware of what happened here, this week, chris. Thank you.

The man was crazy. He should've gotten psychological help. He didn't. People died. There are people with mental problems, chris. Deal with it. In fact, you should deal with your own.

Do you have any idea WHY the crusades happened? WHY the inquisitions happened? Was the entire thing a delusion after all?

[Christophera]

I've managed to follow some of the more elusive threads (or so I thought,) but I can't interpret this one I'm afraid.
BUT, I'll let that part go (assuming I just "don't get it," and probably won't ever be able to) but my next question was:
Where to from here? I mean, if you can ever get some of the rest of us dolts to understand -- the more important/powerful ones amongst us presumably -- then what happens?

Miss

[QUOTE=Christophera;1925889]

Yes, I understand. The confusion that denial creates really makes it hard to have a clear thread of knowledge.

I have a site that is dedicated to creating an understanding of the unconscious, hypnosis and the various actions I've taken to expose the neglect and incompetence in the field of psychology.

I appreciate your efforts to understand.

http://members.tripod.com/truthasaur/


belz,
There is a page there just for you relating to 2 minds. You are sort of right but mostly wrong, This is an excellent compilation from medicine on the right and left brain.

http://members.tripod.com/truthasaur/twominds1.html

[defaultdotxbe]

Do you have any idea WHY the crusades happened? WHY the inquisitions happened? Was the entire thing a delusion after all?

you have yet to explain how you are immune to the hypnotism/indoctrination/misinformation/disinformation that we apparently all suffer from

perhaps if you explain your secrets more of us can be enlightened




or figure out how to patch the holes in hypno-tron

[Architect]

Do you have any idea WHY the crusades happened? WHY the inquisitions happened? Was the entire thing a delusion after all?

Yes, Yes, No.

[Architect]

And you can't help but be impressed by the skills of our ancestors if you do stand at Maes Howe while the sun rises, not sure that the current evidence is that we have made much progress in the last 4,000 years though.


In Maes Howe, surely?

Personally, I always thought the Viking grafitti told us just how much (or rather little) we had progressed........

[stateofgrace]

Chris, maybe you got hypnotized into believing you was not hypnotized.

Or maybe you got hypnotized into believing it is all one big conspiracy and it isn't.

Maybe we are really the ones that aren’t hypnotized but you are.

Seriously Chris, get help mate.

[Christophera]

Yes, Yes, No.

Meaning you don't but you would like to appear as if you do.

How about a brief explanation. And don't just cite "heresy" explain what that really is.


The only feasible, realistic explanation for near free fall and total pulverization in existence is found here.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

[twinstead]

The only feasible, realistic explanation for near free fall and total pulverization in existence is found here.


As has been pointed out to you before, there was neither free fall NOR total pulverization, therefore there need not even be an explanation for them.

Dude. You're crazy, not stupid. You should know better. What's up with that?

[Christophera]

As has been pointed out to you before, there was neither free fall NOR total pulverization, therefore there need not even be an explanation for them.

Dude. You're crazy, not stupid. You should know better. What's up with that?

Willfull ignorance is a sin.

NEAR free fall & total pulverization, except for heavy steel.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Perhaps now you are getting an idea of how deeply you are deprived.damaged by the lack of a full and open education.

[missyvanwinkle]

...people who could read and understand you websites (I couldn't tease the meanig out of them so forgive me.) But even if I don't get it, well, forget about me.

But, what about the smart ones? Once they understand what you have revealed, what do you want them to do to help you turn things around? (I'm assuming you've written this to try to help.)

Miss


Yes, I understand. The confusion that denial creates really makes it hard to have a clear thread of knowledge.
I have a site that is dedicated to creating an understanding of the unconscious, hypnosis and the various actions I've taken to expose the neglect and incompetence in the field of psychology.
I appreciate your efforts to understand.

[Belz...]

I've been trying to get help for crazies (or people programmed to kill) since 1998 when the county failed to appear on subpoena duces tecum. That is what the Failure to appear on subpoena, interfereing with the appearance of a witness. (http://www.truthasaur.com/local/images/subden.gif) was about.

Not every loon is going to get the proper treatment. I suppose this thread is a prime example.

Their superiors are like you. They like things the way they are and do ont want anyone to know about the unconscious mind.

So, I'm in on it now ? Cool. Did I place that C4 in the WTC towers ?

[Belz...]

Notice that belz ignores the date/numerological coincedences between the montreal shootings and the Attias killings here of 4 with a car.

Interesting argument, since I didn't know about this coincidence. If the powers that be are that smart, why the hell would they place such importance in a symbolism that may very well blow their cover ?

9-11 was carried out partially by people acting unconsciously. The towers were designed to be demolished by people who thought they were doing something for one reason, when actually they were doing it for another.

Again, why ? Why did they design the towers 30 years ahead of time to be demolished in this fashion ? Wasn't there a better, easier and simpler way to get what they wanted ? Sounds like a bad Deus Ex Machina to me.

People can be hypnotized even if they do not want to be hypnotized. Bottom paragraph. You are wrong and I've proven it. Now will you act to protect lives with your knowledge?

Anecdotal evidence will not convince me, chris. Some people simply can't be hypnotised, and I can only summise that I'm one of them. I'm simply resilient to that kind of idea. Damn, I can't even do it to myself, let alone let someone else do it. I suggest you do some actual reading!

Do you have any idea WHY the crusades happened? WHY the inquisitions happened? Was the entire thing a delusion after all?

Please. Educate me.

There is a page there just for you relating to 2 minds. You are sort of right but mostly wrong, This is an excellent compilation from medicine on the right and left brain.

No, I'm either right or wrong. You have two minds because you have two brains. Normally this isn't a problem because the two are connected. Exactly how another mind could exist there is beyond me, but I'm always ready to learn if you can explain it to me. No links, please. Just the short version.

[Belz...]

Willfull ignorance is a sin.

Against who ?

[William Rea]

From what I have read here at JREF it appears that the centre of gravity would have to shift a long way before the top could topple.

If the supporting structure below it were undermined then the tilt over the centre of gravity would not have to be as great.

When I get 5 minutes I'll do some brief sketches to explain a little better.

BTW I am not advocating that explosive charges were used to undermine the tower. At least not yet ;)

[T.A.M.]

A diagramatic explanation of what you mean, and how it would make the toppling easier, would be appreciated, if you are trying to convince us of this point.

TAM

[twinstead]

Well. The musician 'Poe' wrote a song with the lyrics "you can't talk to a psycho like a normal human being".

I am beginning to suspect she was right.

[twinstead]

Perhaps now you are getting an idea of how deeply you are deprived.damaged by the lack of a full and open education.

Uh, no, perhaps I am getting an idea of how deeply out of touch with reality you are, my dear crazy person.

But, I do respect people who stay true to themselves no matter what.

Rock on, crazy dude. Rock on.

[Christophera]

...people who could read and understand you websites (I couldn't tease the meanig out of them so forgive me.) But even if I don't get it, well, forget about me.

But, what about the smart ones? Once they understand what you have revealed, what do you want them to do to help you turn things around? (I'm assuming you've written this to try to help.)

Miss

Well, ...... smart doesn't have much to do with understanding this information. It is more conditioning. If you are like belz you are conditoned unconsciously to think that science already knows enough and that everything else is there to ridicule.

http://members.tripod.com/truthasaur/

Once a few power people understand, they will communicate to others that our entire system of; mental health care, education, the courts, law enforcement, has been deprived of a tool that will greatly improve our ability to adapt and survive. To protect our environment by creating behaviors that are sustainable rather than ones that feed corporatons the profits they want.

We are missing about 70% of the sentience we might know in our lives,

[William Rea]

Again, why ? Why did they design the towers 30 years ahead of time to be demolished in this fashion ? Wasn't there a better, easier and simpler way to get what they wanted ? Sounds like a bad Deus Ex Machina to me.

I thought about this one and figured out one reasonable scenario.

In the case of damage to the structure (not necessarily terrorist damage) a suitable designed and controlled failure would result in far less risk of damage to the surrounding real estate and potentially reduced loss of life.

I wouldn't even think it unreasonable that despite knowing that people were alive up there then someone ultimately had to make a decision to cut the losses and bring it down.

It doesn't have to have any sinister conspiracy overtones.

[William Rea]

A diagramatic explanation of what you mean, and how it would make the toppling easier, would be appreciated, if you are trying to convince us of this point.

TAM

When I get 5 minutes I will do that and scan it in TAM. I also have a serious problem with the FEMA report in how it has diagramatically represented the stresses but more on that later.

Is there a limit on the size of pictures you can upload?

[Christophera]

Originally Posted by Christophera View Post
Notice that belz ignores the date/numerological coincedences between the montreal shootings and the Attias killings here of 4 with a car.

Interesting argument, since I didn't know about this coincidence. If the powers that be are that smart, why the hell would they place such importance in a symbolism that may very well blow their cover ?


The individuals have not blown their cover. The idea is that folks like you realize that we do not know everything about the mind and that it is what we don't know that is the problem.

Nov. 19, 1999, Deming, N.M. 1 killed

May 20, 1999, Conyers Georgia, 6 wounded

April 20, 1999, Littleton, Colo., 15 killed, 22 wounded

May 21, 1998, Springfield, Ore., 2 killed, 22 wounded

May 21, 1998, St. Charles, Mo. , Plan modeled after Jonesboro uncovered

May 21, 1998, Onalaska, Wash., 1 killed

May 21, 1998, Houston Tex. , 1 wounded

May 19, 1998, Johnston, R.I., Threatening notes

May 19, 1998, Fayetteville, Tenn.,1 killed

April 24, 1998, Edinboro, Pa., 1 killed

March 24, 1998, Jonesboro, Ark., 5 killed, 10 wounded

Feb. 19, 1997, Bethel, Alaska., 2 killed, 2 wounded

is this enough?

[Bell]

Originally Posted by Christophera View Post
Notice that belz ignores the date/numerological coincedences between the montreal shootings and the Attias killings here of 4 with a car.



The individuals have not blown their cover. The idea is that folks like you realize that we do not know everything about the mind and that it is what we don't know that is the problem.

Nov. 19, 1999, Deming, N.M. 1 killed

May 20, 1999, Conyers Georgia, 6 wounded

April 20, 1999, Littleton, Colo., 15 killed, 22 wounded

May 21, 1998, Springfield, Ore., 2 killed, 22 wounded

May 21, 1998, St. Charles, Mo. , Plan modeled after Jonesboro uncovered

May 21, 1998, Onalaska, Wash., 1 killed

May 21, 1998, Houston Tex. , 1 wounded

May 19, 1998, Johnston, R.I., Threatening notes

May 19, 1998, Fayetteville, Tenn.,1 killed

April 24, 1998, Edinboro, Pa., 1 killed

March 24, 1998, Jonesboro, Ark., 5 killed, 10 wounded

Feb. 19, 1997, Bethel, Alaska., 2 killed, 2 wounded

is this enough?

It goes from 1, to 2, to 4, to 2 to 1 ?
Thus? :confused:
Please, educate me.

[Dog Town]

I thought about this one and figured out one reasonable scenario.

In the case of damage to the structure (not necessarily terrorist damage) a suitable designed and controlled failure would result in far less risk of damage to the surrounding real estate and potentially reduced loss of life.

I wouldn't even think it unreasonable that despite knowing that people were alive up there then someone ultimately had to make a decision to cut the losses and bring it down.

It doesn't have to have any sinister conspiracy overtones.

Please do... go on....

[William Rea]

When I get 5 minutes I will do that and scan it in TAM. I also have a serious problem with the FEMA report in how it has diagramatically represented the stresses but more on that later.

Is there a limit on the size of pictures you can upload?

My attempt to explain...

[missyvanwinkle]

I dunno. I don't think science knows anywhere near enough, not by a long shot, but I'm still not catching the drift of your sites so maybe it's something with me.

Be that as it may though, I like your notion of helping people with the mental health, education, and law enforcement systems, not to mention fixing the mess we've made of the environment, so I'll join Twinstead with a Rock On!

But I think a more collegial attempt at consensus building may be your ally if you hope to realize your vision of peace and justice and wisdom, big guy. You have to be the one lighting the way with civility, Chris, even if we mere mortals aren't always able to follow on the path you're trying to illuminate for us.

Miss

Well, ...... smart doesn't have much to do with understanding this information. It is more conditioning. If you are like belz you are conditoned unconsciously to think that science already knows enough and that everything else is there to ridicule.
Once a few power people understand, they will communicate to others that our entire system of; mental health care, education, the courts, law enforcement, has been deprived of a tool that will greatly improve our ability to adapt and survive. To protect our environment by creating behaviors that are sustainable rather than ones that feed corporatons the profits they want.
We are missing about 70% of the sentience we might know in our lives,

[Christophera]

It goes from 1, to 2, to 4, to 2 to 1 ?
Thus? :confused:
Please, educate me.

Four on the exact same day of the month, all within five days of the month. This society is conditioned to think that things like this can only be coincidence.

It is what we do not know about the mind that is the problem.

The numeric issues with 9-11, think about it.

When flight 11 hit a 110 story tower on september 11, then another plane hit the other 110 story tower and the two towers fell on the 22 story Vista International hotel

If you disregard the 3rd digit there is too much numeric alignment for coincidence. No consider there were 21,800 windows that were spaced 22 inches apart.

We do not know who did it and we don't know why those numerics exist. Consider, maybe there is more to life than meets the eye.

[Christophera]

I dunno. I don't think science knows anywhere near enough, not by a long shot, but I'm still not catching the drift of your sites so maybe it's something with me.

Be that as it may though, I like your notion of helping people with the mental health, education, and law enforcement systems, not to mention fixing the mess we've made of the environment, so I'll join Twinstead with a Rock On!

But I think a more collegial attempt at consensus building may be your ally if you hope to realize your vision of peace and justice and wisdom, big guy. You have to be the one lighting the way with civility, Chris, even if we mere mortals aren't always able to follow on the path you're trying to illuminate for us.

Miss

Collegial, hmmmmm. Im sure I'm working towards that, and with time enough people are getting involved to create that environment, so, ..... you are right on!

[missyvanwinkle]

...the picture under your name kinda' gives me the jeebies, Chris.

I think I get the idea behind the flag and the scales, but what's the story behind the bleeding Mary and is there any chance you might be persuaded to change it to something a tad more pleasant? Not necessarily a picture of Bambi or anything (altho' Bambi would be ok by me), but maybe something not so frightful?

A little sqeamish I guess,
Miss

[defaultdotxbe]

We do not know who did it and we don't know why those numerics exist. Consider, maybe there is more to life than meets the eye.

so if there are no coincidences what do you make of my opa? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63888)

[Regnad Kcin]

My point is that formal oral histories of ancient earth are traditionally kept with hypnosis wherein the circadian rhythm is exploited (pioneered by the circassians) used also by the Masonic Order who has been infiltrated through its oral histories and turned against it's higher purposes or used to create towers built to demolish......The knowledge of hypnosis is corrupted and generally people are led to believe that if a person des not want to be hypnotised they cannot be. Generally this would be true. Take a situation where a person was hypnotized at childhood, given what is called a "deep trance basis". That basis creattes a ready made state of hypnotic rapport. That person can often be placed in a trance and they cannot resist or without theie knowing it.

The other side, the ancient hypnosists, have been driven into an exclusive unconscious state and enter post hypnotically into a trance and conduct potent hypnosis that might be capable of taking a person who has no basis, directly into a deep state, depending on the person...Well, that certainly clears it all up.

Mr. Brown:

What is one to make of such a person as yourself? One who prevaricates, evades, misinforms, and lies. One who belittles and insults. One to whom evidence and proof are foreign concepts. One who, in an intellectual debate, is his own worst enemy.

It's been interesting as can be conversing with you. However, I'm through. Likely you will not believe me, yet I can't help but wish you well.

Adieu.

[Christophera]

Well, that certainly clears it all up.

Mr. Brown:

What is one to make of such a person as yourself? One who prevaricates, evades, misinforms, and lies. One who belittles and insults. One to whom evidence and proof are foreign concepts. One who, in an intellectual debate, is his own worst enemy.

It's been interesting as can be conversing with you. However, I'm through. Likely you will not believe me, yet I can't help but wish you well.

Adieu.

Mr. Peabody,

This society has far to little concept of what the truth is to provide jusgement of me. You for example have not yet explained the image of the tower mushrooming (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg) where I have done so. You choose not to beleive my explanation, but it will cause the effect seen. So if prevarication is an issue, it is likely that you are more gulty than I.

There has been no evasion on my part, if you've seen something you think qualifies, what you've actually seen is my inability to track all the inquiry as it is obscured by the garbage. I have provided a certain amount of evidence for my assertions concerning mental potential and it is quality, unquestionable evidence that is useful in explaining history. Whereas you and yours have provided zero. The misinformation allegation is ludicrous, Gravy can be accurately charged with that as he tries to pass of constrcuton photos showing minor vertical steel in the core area and lump them in with the truly massive columns around the outside of the core. Indeed, the efforts to misinterpret or misrepresent photos by you and yours has been quite huge.

i confess, I have worked relentlessly to belittle and insult you and yours, this i am guilty of, but it has all been done for proper reasons so therefore is justified.

Lastly, there is not one quality assemblage of raw data on the design of the towers based in raw evidence, nor is there one compilation of data that helps to explain the events by you and yours. When I have done both and it all works with raw evidence as well as evidence from our society at large.

http://concretecore.741.com

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Meaning, that your assertons are more aptly applied to you and yours than they are to me

[Christophera]

...the picture under your name kinda' gives me the jeebies, Chris.

I think I get the idea behind the flag and the scales, but what's the story behind the bleeding Mary and is there any chance you might be persuaded to change it to something a tad more pleasant? Not necessarily a picture of Bambi or anything (altho' Bambi would be ok by me), but maybe something not so frightful?

A little sqeamish I guess,
Miss

We are in very serious times. A great deal of blood of innocent people has been wasted. They all had loved ones and were loved. Mothers love their children and we all had a mother. The sight of the disarry of our cultural lives and the spiritual morass of our degenerated society, then the lack of respect for justice as it is supported by the principles of this nation deserve a truly shocking, animated avatar that has motherhood watching its children destroyed, their blood wasted.

Right now our soldiers are fighting and dying in a war based on completely false pretenses. The suffering and grief we are paying for every day with every penny of tax we pay is providing the economic power to kill more innocent people and our own sons and daughters, they all had mothers.

Mary weeps blood for good reason, so it won't be changing. Sorry.

[Christophera]

so if there are no coincidences what do you make of my opa? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63888)

Your and gumboots stories are truly amazing, and I agree, there should be no coincidence assigned. God is trying to show us something.

[Parsman]

Architect - in Maes Howe yes, or at, or beside... damn big buiding (probably built by Aliens if you are Christophera or another CT nut) - I was lucky enough to visit several times in the 70s when my Uncle was a Lighthouse Keeper on the Pentland Skerries based at Stromness.

Christophera - not that Architect needs any help, but which Crusades do you need explained why they happened? In the Middle East? In the Baltic States? The Reconquista in Iberia? The Albigensian Crusade? The crusading movement happened over centuries in many different parts of the then known world and had different causes and effects in all those places. As is good practice when entering into a debate please define your terms of reference rather than apply a scatter shot technique.

[Christophera]

Quote:
9-11 was carried out partially by people acting unconsciously. The towers were designed to be demolished by people who thought they were doing something for one reason, when actually they were doing it for another.


Again, why ? Why did they design the towers 30 years ahead of time to be demolished in this fashion ? Wasn't there a better, easier and simpler way to get what they wanted ? Sounds like a bad Deus Ex Machina to me.


They wanted a death ritual to create the deepest fear possible in the masses to paralyze them and make them afraid of each other so that any desire to confront the truth would be squelched in fearful ridicule. A way to create obiedience tin a rush to war and finally, ...... a numbness to the parasite killing the host.

Can you think of a better way to get those things done?

[Christophera]

Architect - in Maes Howe yes, or at, or beside... damn big buiding (probably built by Aliens if you are Christophera or another CT nut) - I was lucky enough to visit several times in the 70s when my Uncle was a Lighthouse Keeper on the Pentland Skerries based at Stromness.

Christophera - not that Architect needs any help, but which Crusades do you need explained why they happened? In the Middle East? In the Baltic States? The Reconquista in Iberia? The Albigensian Crusade? The crusading movement happened over centuries in many different parts of the then known world and had different causes and effects in all those places. As is good practice when entering into a debate please define your terms of reference rather than apply a scatter shot technique.

You applied the scatter shot. I indicated a simple definition of what heresy rally was would do.

The Albiginsian crusade would do well but the specific heretical acts should be named to avoid the shotgun effect..

[William Rea]

My attempt to explain...

Uploaded again to improve clarity, I will add a further picture to describe my interpretation of the FEMA description.

[Architect]

You applied the scatter shot. I indicated a simple definition of what heresy rally was would do.




No, Chris, we just showed that you don't knolw what you're talking about.

The irony is, no-one is really debating with you. We're all having a laugh at your expense, which is really in poor taste as you're clearly ill. I suspect we'll all feel a bit guily at some point.

[Architect]

If the supporting structure below it were undermined then the tilt over the centre of gravity would not have to be as great.

When I get 5 minutes I'll do some brief sketches to explain a little better.

BTW I am not advocating that explosive charges were used to undermine the tower. At least not yet ;)

Will,

For the structure to topple monolitically the strength of the structural joints/hinge points would have to be significantly greater than the ensuing shear loads placed on them.

Feel free to crunch some figures, but trust me - there's no way that they'd be capable of taking such loadings. They'd also fail pretty damend quickly, which is why any horizontal movement is negligible within the context of the overall collapse.

Incidentally, I think that you're trying at times to describe the middle third rule (look it up), a general rule of thumb we use when considering stability of structures.

[William Rea]

Uploaded again to improve clarity, I will add a further picture to describe my interpretation of the FEMA description.

The FEMA version of events?

[Architect]

The FEMA version of events?

That's not what they describe. Have you read the report?

[tsig]

The proof is in the putting.



all golfers can agree with this . the first true statement that C has made.

[Architect]

I think that Chris might be in the rough....

[William Rea]

That's not what they describe. Have you read the report?

Yes, the question mark at the end of my post should be noted. If that is not what they are saying then where have I gone wrong?

I'll quote verbatim...

"As the temperature of the column steel increases, the yield strength and modulus of elasticity degrade and the critical buckling strength of the columns will decrease, potentially initiating buckling, even if lateral support is maintained. The effect is most likely to have been significant in failure of the interior core columns"

"...while portions of the core fell in a somewhat random manner."

"This suggests that collapse began with one or more failures in the central core area of the building..."

[William Rea]

Will,

For the structure to topple monolitically the strength of the structural joints/hinge points would have to be significantly greater than the ensuing shear loads placed on them.

Feel free to crunch some figures, but trust me - there's no way that they'd be capable of taking such loadings. They'd also fail pretty damend quickly, which is why any horizontal movement is negligible within the context of the overall collapse.

Incidentally, I think that you're trying at times to describe the middle third rule (look it up), a general rule of thumb we use when considering stability of structures.

Monolithically? I don't believe I have made a proposal for monolithic collapse.

Sure, you're right about the middle third, I was trying not to use jargon and imply that the building was not freestanding.

[Architect]

Monolithically? I don't believe I have made a proposal for monolithic collapse.

.

Perhaps I misunderstood:

There is a technical difference between a topple (Your phrase) and a collapse failure; the former would be comparable to (say) a telegraph pole keeling over, i.e. monolithic,albeit that it is possible to have a partial topple. This is not possible at WTC because the shear strengths of the joints aren't sufficient to counter such load paths.

So whilst there may be an initial sideways vector, the rapid failure of the underlying structure means that the downwards forces are the key player.

Fair enough?

[William Rea]

Perhaps I misunderstood:

There is a technical difference between a topple (Your phrase) and a collapse failure; the former would be comparable to (say) a telegraph pole keeling over, i.e. monolithic,albeit that it is possible to have a partial topple. This is not possible at WTC because the shear strengths of the joints aren't sufficient to counter such load paths.

So whilst there may be an initial sideways vector, the rapid failure of the underlying structure means that the downwards forces are the key player.

Fair enough?

I understand what you are saying but are you surmising that shear failure at the joints is the only way the macrostucture can fail? I don't think even FEMA are saying this.

Perhaps my use of the word topple is the confusion here? I am not implying that a simplistic topple of the top of the structure around a single fulcrum point is at work. I was using the sawn tree top as an anology of the macrostuctural failure of the building, of course at a microstructural level there were probably buckles, fractures and sheared joints but the net effect of these would lead to a visual appearance of the top of the building toppling. Can you suggest another word to describe the phenomena?

PS did you look at both of my pictures.

[Architect]

Can you suggest another word to describe the phenomena?

PS did you look at both of my pictures.

Progressive collapse. Well, okay, that's two words.

We don't use the term macrostructural, btw, so I'd avoid it if you want to avoid confusion.

Lets be clear; do we agree that a topple, i.e. substantially monolithic around a central fulcrum isn't going to happen because the steel is going to fail pretty much immediately under the induced loads and thereafter it will continue a plain, old fashioned downwards trajectory?

[Belz...]

If you are like belz you are conditoned unconsciously to think that science already knows enough and that everything else is there to ridicule.

Do you have any actual evidence that I, personally, have been conditioned ? And how was I conditioned, exactly ? When ?

To protect our environment by creating behaviors that are sustainable rather than ones that feed corporatons the profits they want.

I'm confused. It's a corporate thing ? Why isn't there a monopoly, then ? Wouldn't that be the logical end result ?

The individuals have not blown their cover. The idea is that folks like you realize that we do not know everything about the mind and that it is what we don't know that is the problem.

You're not answering my question: what possible reason would these people have to trigger events at those specific dates ? Or, what could lead those crazies to go berserk at those specific dates ? So far, you're just connecting unrelated dots.

Four on the exact same day of the month, all within five days of the month. This society is conditioned to think that things like this can only be coincidence.

This is the kind of BS that I really hate. You speak of "society" and "people" as though they were a monolithic entity that you could describe as a whole. There are MILLIONS of people around the world who DON'T interpret things like this as coincidence. Look at all those baseball and hockey players and their ridiculous superstitions. You're not only not making sense, what you're saying that does make grammatical sense isn't even true.

When flight 11 hit a 110 story tower on september 11, then another plane hit the other 110 story tower and the two towers fell on the 22 story Vista International hotel

If you disregard the 3rd digit there is too much numeric alignment for coincidence. No consider there were 21,800 windows that were spaced 22 inches apart.

Uh-huh. I can also find interesting coincidences about any building in Saguenay or Montréal if I look hard enough. Doesn't mean it's correlation.

We do not know who did it and we don't know why those numerics exist. Consider, maybe there is more to life than meets the eye.

Key word highlighted.

This society has far to little concept of what the truth is to provide jusgement of me.

That's signature line material, chris.

The sight of the disarry of our cultural lives and the spiritual morass of our degenerated society,

Well, at least you didn't call it the great satan.

then the lack of respect for justice as it is supported by the principles of this nation deserve a truly shocking, animated avatar that has motherhood watching its children destroyed, their blood wasted

That's somewhat poetic, but I'm even more worried about you, now.

[Belz...]

They wanted a death ritual to create the deepest fear possible in the masses to paralyze them and make them afraid of each other so that any desire to confront the truth would be squelched in fearful ridicule. A way to create obiedience tin a rush to war and finally, ...... a numbness to the parasite killing the host.

Can you think of a better way to get those things done?

Yes. Yes I can. You said that people were conditioned. If they are, such a complicated event wouldn't be needed. They would wire the buildings WHILE people are working there and nobody would notice. What do you think ?

[Belz...]

I thought about this one and figured out one reasonable scenario.

In the case of damage to the structure (not necessarily terrorist damage) a suitable designed and controlled failure would result in far less risk of damage to the surrounding real estate and potentially reduced loss of life.

I wouldn't even think it unreasonable that despite knowing that people were alive up there then someone ultimately had to make a decision to cut the losses and bring it down.

It doesn't have to have any sinister conspiracy overtones.

Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds ? Do you think other buldings were wired in this way ? Do you think any explosive would still work after 30 years ?

[William Rea]

Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds ? Do you think other buldings were wired in this way ? Do you think any explosive would still work after 30 years ?

No, it sounds quite reasonable and prudent and I don't know if other buildings are wired this way or not, that's not my concern and neither is the potency of the explosives.

Why do you ridicule the logic of having a mechanism for making safe a very tall building that could devastate its surroundings? You may not like the idea or find it distasteful but it would preserve a lot of real estate and lives if it were in place. A controlled collapse enacted prior to a potentially devastating free collapse is logical and humane.

It also doesn't need to have a sinister CT attached to it.

[William Rea]

Progressive collapse. Well, okay, that's two words.

We don't use the term macrostructural, btw, so I'd avoid it if you want to avoid confusion.

Lets be clear; do we agree that a topple, i.e. substantially monolithic around a central fulcrum isn't going to happen because the steel is going to fail pretty much immediately under the induced loads and thereafter it will continue a plain, old fashioned downwards trajectory?

Progressive collapse is good but it doesn't describe what I am putting forward as a model for collapse.

You are not making it clear you are distorting what I am saying, I will make clear what I am saying...

The way that the structure is designed (FEMA agrees with me on this) is a strong central core made of a steel framework upholding 60% of the gravitational force and an outer ring of steel pillars bearing 40% of the gravitational force and resisting wind and other transverse forces by fact of it's wider footprint or moment. The two structures are joined primarily by trusses in the roof and by a stronger interlocking frame on the lower floors and secondarily by the floor trusses.

FEMA admits it does not know and may never know the extent of the damage to the central core, so like me it is surmising. It also states that the lost load bearing capacity of the outer pillars was undermined meaning that more stress was placed on the remaining pillars and that the roof trusses became in effect Vierendeel trusses. To a large extent I don't disagree with any of these statements.

FEMA says that the central core was undermined to such an extent that it collapsed more or less vertically into its own footprint. This is where I fundamentally disagree.

I say that if the central core was undermined to any extent then it would be reasonable and logical to conclude that the majority of that damage would be on the side that impact occurred. The top of the building above the damage would fall over the largely sound central core beneath it into the weaker outer wall structure, giving the appearance of "toppling".

We can go into how each individual member in the structure failed but on the scale of the building that is my model. I can accept that this is not a simple fulcrum and monolith situation but attacking the application of my analogy does not undermine the underlying principles of my argument that I have outlined in great detail in the sketches provided.

[Z]

But that's the problem - from the available evidence (which, admittedly, isn't great), the central core was NOT largely sound. Not by a long shot.

After all, simple observation - that the top did, in fact, flatten/collapse - should bear out that the central core failed.

It's kind of funny - you're looking at two different situations: in one, the central core fails, and the top pancakes down onto the bottom, causing catastrophic failure; in the other, the core remains sound, the top topples onto the damaged side of the building, and that side undergoes partial collapse or damage. You're arguing that the second is what should have happened, and assuming that the core was sound; while a rational person would, instead observe what did happen, and infer that the core, in fact, failed.

In other words, you're trying to fit the facts to your theories, rather than the other way around.

Tell me, Willie, in your diagrams, which represents what we observed happen that day?

[Christophera]

Yes. Yes I can. You said that people were conditioned. If they are, such a complicated event wouldn't be needed. They would wire the buildings WHILE people are working there and nobody would notice. What do you think ?

Not everybody is conditioned to that degree, only key people.

The powerdown was done while people were working, or some anyway, it was over the weekend.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053

After the buildingd were leased there were reports of people having to wait in long lines at elvators because lower floor elevators were getting "maintenance". People had to travel over their floors then come back down on other elevators causing a backup. Otis guaranteed the motor commutators maintenance free for 50 years.

I knew that we had to certify these commutators to be able to operate continuously for 50 years without service or repair as our part of the contract."

http://www.rense.com/general48/chargesplacedinWTC.htm

[Christophera]

Not everybody is conditioned to that degree, only key people.

The powerdown was done while people were working, or some anyway, it was over the weekend.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053

After the buildingd were leased there were reports of people having to wait in long lines at elvators because lower floor elevators were getting "maintenance". People had to travel over their floors then come back down on other elevators causing a backup. Otis guaranteed the motor commutators maintenance free for 50 years.

I knew that we had to certify these commutators to be able to operate continuously for 50 years without service or repair as our part of the contract."

http://www.rense.com/general48/chargesplacedinWTC.htm

Of course there are other aspects of elevators that need maintenance but gereally that sort of work does not take very long and can be done at night when people are not working.

[twinstead]

Not everybody is conditioned to that degree, only key people.

The powerdown was done while people were working, or some anyway, it was over the weekend.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053

After the buildingd were leased there were reports of people having to wait in long lines at elvators because lower floor elevators were getting "maintenance". People had to travel over their floors then come back down on other elevators causing a backup. Otis guaranteed the motor commutators maintenance free for 50 years.

I knew that we had to certify these commutators to be able to operate continuously for 50 years without service or repair as our part of the contract."

http://www.rense.com/general48/chargesplacedinWTC.htm

Chris how do you explain that the powerdown was only in one building. Remember they had more than one building to 'wire up'

[Christophera]

Chris how do you explain that the powerdown was only in one building. Remember they had more than one building to 'wire up'

It is implied that the entire WTC had undergone a cable upgrade. The south tower was mostly private corporations, hence a report, a leak of the powerdown. The other tower was mostly governmental, hence no report or leak of the powerdown there.

The reason the south was mostly private corporations was because it was easier to rent. It had 2 hallways in each direction on each floor. The north only had one hallway on each floor in one direction, The government was able to occupy the north and use it up in that way.

[twinstead]

It is implied that the entire WTC had undergone a cable upgrade. The south tower was mostly private corporations, hence a report, a leak of the powerdown. The other tower was mostly governmental, hence no report or leak of the powerdown there.

In fact, only one WTC actually had a powerdown. And was it also 'implied' that WTC7 was included in this global powerdown?

And what do you have to say about this:

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_power_down.html

[Christophera]

In fact, only one WTC actually had a powerdown. And was it also 'implied' that WTC7 was included in this global powerdown?

And what do you have to say about this:

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_power_down.html

I can only say that concrete exploding (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg) MUST have an explanation, and of course the word "collapse" does not do that no matter how it is used.

Since what is seen twice, almost identically, to the ground, cannot be anything but a high speed series of explosions, detonators had to have been set. Therefore Forbes story is fully credible.

As far as no others reporting a power down, many are dead, the rest are afraid. I've communicated with Forbes directly and he is sincere, he lost many friends on 9-11.

[Belz...]

No, it sounds quite reasonable and prudent

Sir, if this means that you'd consider wiring a building in this fashion, I suggest that you seek professional help as this would be an indication of possible psychosis.

What if the explosives blow while there are people working in the building ?

Have you considered the useful life of explosives ?

Why do you ridicule the logic of having a mechanism for making safe a very tall building that could devastate its surroundings? You may not like the idea or find it distasteful but it would preserve a lot of real estate and lives if it were in place. A controlled collapse enacted prior to a potentially devastating free collapse is logical and humane.

No, it's not. When does a high-rise building collapse on its own ? That's why they do controlled demolitions, by the way. Because that's the way to do it.

1) It's much safer than wiring it beforehand.
2) Wiring the buildings during construction is somewhat conspicuous and someone would have noticed.
3) If it were "reasonable" or "logical", people would do it more often, engineers would learn about that in school and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Belz...]

Not everybody is conditioned to that degree, only key people.

Am I a key person ? You said I was conditioned.

[Belz...]

FEMA says that the central core was undermined to such an extent that it collapsed more or less vertically into its own footprint. This is where I fundamentally disagree.

I say that if the central core was undermined to any extent then it would be reasonable and logical to conclude that the majority of that damage would be on the side that impact occurred. The top of the building above the damage would fall over the largely sound central core beneath it into the weaker outer wall structure, giving the appearance of "toppling".

No, the remaining supports would take the load until they failed due to heat. From what knowledgeable people here have said, it would be a long way from the necessary conditions for a "toppling". Or haven't you been reading ?

[Architect]

Will,

Tall buildings are not prewired and primed for demolition. Trust me, I'd remember putting it on the drawings.......and how would we hush it all up? Hell we work in an industry so litigous that we'd only do it if there was a BS EN anyway!

[Blue Mountain]

No, it sounds quite reasonable and prudent and I don't know if other buildings are wired this way or not, that's not my concern and neither is the potency of the explosives.

Why do you ridicule the logic of having a mechanism for making safe a very tall building that could devastate its surroundings? You may not like the idea or find it distasteful but it would preserve a lot of real estate and lives if it were in place. A controlled collapse enacted prior to a potentially devastating free collapse is logical and humane.
Buildings are engineered not to fall down catastrophically. Fires in almost all high-rise buildings are locally contained and in general do not present a threat to the structural integrity. The WTC was the most dramatic exception: fires spread out across pretty much the entire floor area, with several floors on fire.

Second, it is very strange to assume that the WTC was brought down in a "controlled" demolition by explosives, given the extensive damage it did cause. For example, WTC-3 (the Marriott Hotel) was destroyed by the collapse of WTC-1 and-2, killing two employees, two guests and several firefighters. Video evidence shows WTC-7 sustained a direct hit from a massive plume of debris from WTC-1 (or was it 2?) as it went down. So if 1 and 2 were brought down by a controlled demolition to prevent damage to other buildings, the strategy failed miserably.

Third, why on earth would you design a building in such a way that it's basically a bomb ready to go off? A very common method of detonating explosives is by sending an electical pulse through wires connected to detonators. Huntsman can correct me on this if I'm wrong (and I possibly am), but having tons of explosives just ready to blow through an existing network of detonators and wiring could be tripped simply by a maintenance worker accidentally sending a charge through the system, or even a power surge from the local hydro utility. Who in his right mind would write an insurance policy for such a building?

The whole idea just seems perposterous to me.

[Hellbound]

Huntsman can correct me on this if I'm wrong (and I possibly am), but having tons of explosives just ready to blow through an existing network of detonators and wiring could be tripped simply by a maintenance worker accidentally sending a charge through the system, or even a power surge from the local hydro utility. Who in his right mind would write an insurance policy for such a building?

The whole idea just seems perposterous to me.

Well, there's electric and non-electric. Electric is wires, and could be set off by somebody, say, accidentally cutting through both an electrical wire and the detonator wire. The blasting caps use volatile explosives, and are sensitive. Speaking of which , they don't survive long (sahort shelf life), something someone should point out to Mr. Loony-concrete-core.

Non-electric uses MDI (Modern Demolition Iniation). This is basically a plastic tubing, lined on the interior, that will transmit a shock wave down the length. Also detonator cord could be used, but that's gone pretty much out of fashion (det cord on your foot would take off your toes...MDI is safer). However, detonator cord is sensitive to heat and fire (one short circuit or one cord too close to an HVAC and boom). MDI, while not likely to explode, IS likely to fail. Like all plastics, it becomes more brittle with age and tends to crack. Also, specific to MDI, the interior coating inside the tubing can fall off with too much handling, making a "break" in the line. Finally, any moisture in the line will stiop the transmission and cause the system to fail.

Anyway, C-4 is what's called a secondary explosive: relatively stable and safe under most conditions. You can burn it, jump on it, chew it, twist it, throw it, and it isn't going to go boom. To make it go boom, you need a detonator, which is a small explosive that produces extreme shock and heat pulse. These primary explosives, however, are likely to be set off by static electricity, a stray spark, heat, flame, and anything else. To give an idea, gunpowder can be used as a primary explosive for a detonator (a round with the bullet removed can be crimped over your initiation system). So, things such as shorts, sparks, excess heat, local fires, etc, could set them off. If they happen to be in that block of C-4 at the time...

[dirtywick]

Third, why on earth would you design a building in such a way that it's basically a bomb ready to go off? A very common method of detonating explosives is by sending an electical pulse through wires connected to detonators. Huntsman can correct me on this if I'm wrong (and I possibly am), but having tons of explosives just ready to blow through an existing network of detonators and wiring could be tripped simply by a maintenance worker accidentally sending a charge through the system, or even a power surge from the local hydro utility. Who in his right mind would write an insurance policy for such a building?

The whole idea just seems perposterous to me.

Additionally, if that were the case, a stray bolt of lightning could cause the whole tower to come down, and in a building that tall it's a very real possibility.

[skunkrider]

So if 1 and 2 were brought down by a controlled demolition to prevent damage to other buildings, the strategy failed miserably.


That's the point. They were not brought down with the intention to save the surroundings. They were brought down to implement a persistent trauma into the people's minds.

What do you think would the day have looked like
if "only planes had crushed into the towers and firefighters had extinguished the fires, with only few casualties and repairable damage to the towers"?

It would have looked like any other "conventional" terrorist attack, and it would not have looked like a reason to unleash hell in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Hellbound]

Additionally, if that were the case, a stray bolt of lightning could cause the whole tower to come down, and in a building that tall it's a very real possibility.

Well, to be fair, buildings that tall typically have extensive lightning rod coverage, that direct charge through specific pathways into ground. Not sure of the details on the WTC, but it's likely. The Empire State building gets hit something like 100 times a year.

[Hellbound]

skunkrider:

Just a quick question.

Do you think an explosive charge of 6,000 lbs. (that's 3 tons) would be enough to bring down a building like the WTC towers?

[twinstead]

That's the point. They were not brought down with the intention to save the surroundings. They were brought down to implement a persistent trauma into the people's minds.


Which of course was also Al Queada's goal, was it not?

[dirtywick]

Well, to be fair, buildings that tall typically have extensive lightning rod coverage, that direct charge through specific pathways into ground. Not sure of the details on the WTC, but it's likely. The Empire State building gets hit something like 100 times a year.

That's true and I'm sure WTC was adequately protected, but lightning is also very unpredictable and sometimes strikes where it's not expected to.

[skunkrider]

I consider Al Qaeda, El Kaida, El Kaeida (sorry, I read the English, Dutch, German and many other spellings...) a big bubble...

like BBC with "The Power Of Nightmares" can explain better...

or a false-flag-operation, like "Who Killed John O'Neill?" can explain better as well =)



of course, 3 Tons of explosives will not bring down the tower.
I didn't read where anybody said that.

For instance, the Dutch demolition expert (you know him well - the one who considered and consideres WTC 7 a "perfectly controlled demolition")
said that it might be possible in one day to wire WTC7 with 40 people, all working neatly and perfectly at the same time.

In the same show, a claim is raised that it would take a year or more to wire the Twin Towers.

Do you consider that realistic, too?

WTC7 was like 40% of the height of the towers, and of course there are two of the towers, but it supposedly takes 180 times longer to wire a tower than WTC7 ? Sorry, that doesn't quite go into my head.

[Hellbound]

That's true and I'm sure WTC was adequately protected, but lightning is also very unpredictable and sometimes strikes where it's not expected to.

Also true :)

[The_Fire]

That's true and I'm sure WTC was adequately protected, but lightning is also very unpredictable and sometimes strikes where it's not expected to.

Besides, even adequate lightning protection spills over some residual current. A year or so ago, my appartment complex (2 floors with a lightning rod on the roof and wires to make the lightning pass on the outside of the building without touching it) were hit by a nighttime lightning storm. Sounded, and looked, like a nuke-strike up front and personal. Scared the heck out of me.
Parts of our LAN, which are distributed though routers mounted between roof and indoor hallway ceiling and were never directly hit, managed to burn out, taking several netcards and more than a couple of metres of cable with it.

ETA: Huntsman: Would a spillover like that be enough to setoff a charge?

[Hellbound]

of course, 3 Tons of explosives will not bring down the tower.
I didn't read where anybody said that.

Nobody said that, I was just asking because I'm going somewhere with this.

Why do you think 3 tons couldn't do it?

In the same show, a claim is raised that it would take a year or more to wire the Twin Towers.

Do you consider that realistic, too?

Not really. It isn't nearly long enough.

WTC7 was like 40% of the height of the towers, and of course there are two of the towers, but it supposedly takes 180 times longer to wire a tower than WTC7 ? Sorry, that doesn't quite go into my head.

Both towers were also larger in area per floor than WTC 7, and had a different build structurally.

But we aren't talking about how long it would take to wire them with free access, all equipment on hand, and the buildings empty, doing a quick-n-dirty set up where you don't have to worry about covering your tracks or doing it precisely. We're talking about people sneaking into the parts of the building that aren't occupied at night, avoiding security guards, businesses that were still running, employees, maintenence workers, etc...covering up the tracks where they cut through walls and floors to access the structural members in order to place charges, avoiding anyone seeing large trucks full of tools, people, and C-4 driving into the building, etc, etc, etc.

So yes, I find one to two years entirely unrealistic. Five years is probably pushing the envelope. And frankly, no matter how long and how much care was taken, I still find it highly unlikely that it could be done wihtout ANYONE, none of the hundreds of building occupants each night and weekend, none of the securoty cameras or guards, none of the hundreds of workers that would be required...none of these would notice anything, or let something slip.

Frankly, if they could pull this off, then it doesn't matter. They have enough power that there isn't anything you could do, even if you were right.

Sleep tight :D

[Hellbound]

Besides, even adequate lightning protection spills over some residual current. A year or so ago, my appartment complex (2 floors with a lightning rod on the roof and wires to make the lightning pass on the outside of the building without touching it) were hit by a nighttime lightning storm. Sounded, and looked, like a nuke-strike up front and personal. Scared the heck out of me.
Parts of our LAN, which are distributed though routers mounted between roof and indoor hallway ceiling and were never directly hit, managed to burn out, taking several netcards and more than a couple of metres of cable with it.

ETA: Huntsman: Would a spillover like that be enough to setoff a charge?

Yes it could.

But your wiring inside the house is connected to external lines, and is a likely source for spillover to go to (because it has a circuit back to the power station...provide a route to ground). Electrical demolition cables would not be connected into the power grid, and could be insulated and isolate to a degree. Of course, the more you want to protect it, the more obvious it will be these aren't standard equipment should anyone notice them (and the more likely they are to be noticed).

It's a possibility that lightning would set them off, but not a garauntee.

[The_Fire]

Yes it could.

But your wiring inside the house is connected to external lines, and is a likely source for spillover to go to (because it has a circuit back to the power station...provide a route to ground). Electrical demolition cables would not be connected into the power grid, and could be insulated and isolate to a degree. Of course, the more you want to protect it, the more obvious it will be these aren't standard equipment should anyone notice them (and the more likely they are to be noticed).

It's a possibility that lightning would set them off, but not a garauntee.

Ah...That would explain it. Thanks.

[Belz...]

That's the point. They were not brought down with the intention to save the surroundings. They were brought down to implement a persistent trauma into the people's minds.

Speculation.

What do you think would the day have looked like
if "only planes had crushed into the towers and firefighters had extinguished the fires, with only few casualties and repairable damage to the towers"?

It still would've looked like the most daring terrorist attack ever, and people would still be asking questions about government involvement. The towers didn't "need" to go down unless you assume your conclusion.

It would have looked like any other "conventional" terrorist attack, and it would not have looked like a reason to unleash hell in Afghanistan and Iraq.

More speculation. You don't know if it would've been reason enough. Also, why was afghanistan so important ? Don't you agree that the Taliban and terrorists had to be removed from there ?

I consider Al Qaeda, El Kaida, El Kaeida (sorry, I read the English, Dutch, German and many other spellings...) a big bubble...

Then please explain their existence, their bombings, etc. It's not like 9/11 was the first time.

WTC7 was like 40% of the height of the towers, and of course there are two of the towers, but it supposedly takes 180 times longer to wire a tower than WTC7 ? Sorry, that doesn't quite go into my head.

Are you saying that it would've taken 2 days to set up building 7 for demolition ? A FIFTY storey building ?

[The_Fire]

Somehow I feel a great deja vu on skunkrider......

[Bell]

Somehow I feel a great deja vu on skunkrider......

You know that deja vu actualy are real memories, erased by the gubmint? Sometimes they don't do their jobs quit well (friday afternoons mostly).

[Architect]

You know that deja vu actualy are real memories, erased by the gubmint? Sometimes they don't do their jobs quit well (friday afternoons mostly).

Don't. You'll just start poor Chris off again, and he's seriously unwell....

[Christophera]

Am I a key person ? You said I was conditioned.

You not condtioned to that degree, but you are conditioned. If you were not conditioned you would be responsive to raw evidence and reason and when unable to explain what this (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif) is or why the steel core columns are not seen, you would aquiese and admit that the steel core columns probably not exist.

[Christophera]

Do you have any idea WHY the crusades happened? WHY the inquisitions happened? Was the entire thing a delusion after all?

Yes, Yes, No.

You still haven't shown that you do know WHY, and you also haven't answered the questions about the flex of long steel members and their resistence to torsion.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

[ktesibios]

Yes it could.

But your wiring inside the house is connected to external lines, and is a likely source for spillover to go to (because it has a circuit back to the power station...provide a route to ground). Electrical demolition cables would not be connected into the power grid, and could be insulated and isolate to a degree. Of course, the more you want to protect it, the more obvious it will be these aren't standard equipment should anyone notice them (and the more likely they are to be noticed).

It's a possibility that lightning would set them off, but not a garauntee.

The current in a lightning strike is measured in the hundreds of kiloamperes. Even when the current is safely diverted to ground, the current pulse flowing in structural steel can induce, via transformer action, destructive voltages and currents in nearby wiring.

I have seen something like this happen. On the morning of July 31, 1992 (I remember it well because it was such a lovely 35th birthday present for me) there was a violent thunderstorm in Philly. The Pennsylvania Convention Center, which was still under construction at the time, took a direct hit. I worked in a recording studio which was across Arch street and one building up from the PCC.

When I got to work, I discovered that all the console power supplies in our two music rooms were down; the overvoltage protection circuits had been tripped and crowbarred the outputs. This wasn't so bad; all I had to do to bring them back up was to power cycle them.

But both of the multitrack machines in our main music room were showing obvious signs of significant damage. Basically, in each machine, every IC that had a connection to the synchronizer port was blown, and in the synchronizer they were connected to all the optoisolators on the interface board were blowed up. It took me the better part of two days to get everything fixed.

The cabling running between the machines and the synchronizer was a bit long and the excess length had been coiled up in the bass trap at the back of the room. Apparently, the magnetic field produced by the lightning strike had induced a sufficient voltage in that coiled portion to blow out components at both ends of the cables.

And it did this from at least a hundred feet away.

[William Rea]

Sir, if this means that you'd consider wiring a building in this fashion, I suggest that you seek professional help as this would be an indication of possible psychosis.

What if the explosives blow while there are people working in the building ?

Have you considered the useful life of explosives ?



No, it's not. When does a high-rise building collapse on its own ? That's why they do controlled demolitions, by the way. Because that's the way to do it.

1) It's much safer than wiring it beforehand.
2) Wiring the buildings during construction is somewhat conspicuous and someone would have noticed.
3) If it were "reasonable" or "logical", people would do it more often, engineers would learn about that in school and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I haven't said it has been done, I haven't said it was done on WTC so quit with analysing my psychosis and detach yourself before you disappear up somewhere dark in your bid to try to undermine me!

People don't always do reasonable or logical things because they find them difficult to deal with.

I am putting forward a notion based upon damage limitation that it would preserve the maximum amount of life and real estate if a building were wired to be demolished in case of a disaster that would result in a catastrophic failure.

If you were trapped in the adjacent building waiting for a tower to topple on you which would you prefer?

Like I said no matter how distasteful you find it my logic is sound.

[Architect]

ETA: Huntsman: Would a spillover like that be enough to setoff a charge?


Just so you know, it's called sideflash and the "wires" are downtapes.

[Architect]

You still haven't shown that you do know WHY, and you also haven't answered the questions about the flex of long steel members and their resistence to torsion.



That's because (a) you're talking bollocks and (b) you're mentally ill.

[Architect]

If you were trapped in the adjacent building waiting for a tower to topple on you which would you prefer?

.

I though we'd agreed that it didn't "topple"?

[William Rea]

But that's the problem - from the available evidence (which, admittedly, isn't great), the central core was NOT largely sound. Not by a long shot.

After all, simple observation - that the top did, in fact, flatten/collapse - should bear out that the central core failed.

It's kind of funny - you're looking at two different situations: in one, the central core fails, and the top pancakes down onto the bottom, causing catastrophic failure; in the other, the core remains sound, the top topples onto the damaged side of the building, and that side undergoes partial collapse or damage. You're arguing that the second is what should have happened, and assuming that the core was sound; while a rational person would, instead observe what did happen, and infer that the core, in fact, failed.

In other words, you're trying to fit the facts to your theories, rather than the other way around.

Tell me, Willie, in your diagrams, which represents what we observed happen that day?

The apparent difference between the weaker damaged core at the top and the sound structure beneath is not a paradox, why do you suggest that it is? What is a paradox is why the central core which is specifically designed to handle compressive loads should fail when an imbalance of the damaged core structure could easily "topple" the top of the tower into the weaker outer wall?

In fact you hit the nail on the head, why isn't what we observed logical? I could suggest that the FEMA report is framed to fit what was observed and was not independent?

I will re post the pictures to clarify for you.

[William Rea]

I though we'd agreed that it didn't "topple"?

I can't think of a better word to describe it so you're going to have to accept my definition.

[William Rea]

The WTC was the most dramatic exception: fires spread out across pretty much the entire floor area, with several floors on fire.

What other high rise buildings like this have been brought down like this then?

[William Rea]

No, the remaining supports would take the load until they failed due to heat. From what knowledgeable people here have said, it would be a long way from the necessary conditions for a "toppling". Or haven't you been reading ?

I've been reading FEMA as directed by several on here and they say there was an imbalance of the forces, they even provide a diagram. Can't have it both ways? Are you agreeing with me now that the official story is wrong?

[William Rea]

Will,

Tall buildings are not prewired and primed for demolition. Trust me, I'd remember putting it on the drawings.......and how would we hush it all up? Hell we work in an industry so litigous that we'd only do it if there was a BS EN anyway!

I know what you're saying and tend to agree but sometimes you've got to put something ridiculous out there to wake people up from this dream that governments act morally ALL the time.

BTW, in my job I am constantly amazed at how things are when I take the drawing down to do a reality check. Maintenance guys are a pain for updating drawings!

[William Rea]

Second, it is very strange to assume that the WTC was brought down in a "controlled" demolition by explosives, given the extensive damage it did cause. For example, WTC-3 (the Marriott Hotel) was destroyed by the collapse of WTC-1 and-2, killing two employees, two guests and several firefighters. Video evidence shows WTC-7 sustained a direct hit from a massive plume of debris from WTC-1 (or was it 2?) as it went down. So if 1 and 2 were brought down by a controlled demolition to prevent damage to other buildings, the strategy failed miserably.

So it did topple then? If so how was the structure undermined to topple?

[William Rea]

This is as near scale as I can get of the towers. Does it look like a structure that will pancake on itself?

[gumboot]

This is as near scale as I can get of the towers. Does it look like a structure that will pancake on itself?

You're looking at a solid structure.

You're imagining a huge big block, and trying to imagine a small bit of that block compressing the rest.

But it's not. It's not a single object, it is, as you say, a STRUCTURE.

Imagine the exterior of a skyscraper was removed, so you could see all the floors, and all the empty space between. Still think it couldn't collapse on itself?

-Andrew

[Architect]

Will shows a complete and utter disregard for structural issues. It's almost impressive.

[Hellbound]

Just so you know, it's called sideflash and the "wires" are downtapes.

Sounds like we might have someone more familiar with this type of demolition :). Please help keep me honest if I mis-state anything. My demolition is more along the lines of "we need to blow a 20' hole in this reinforced concrete wall to drive the tanks through, then we need to drop that bridge so the enemy gets stalled". I've been extrapolating from my basic knowledge into areas of building demolition, but I could well be off because of particular conditions or concerns (with building demo) I'm not aware of.

[gumboot]

This is as near scale as I can get of the towers. Does it look like a structure that will pancake on itself?


I've decided to make it easy for you...

The reason common sense makes you say what you do above is because you're applying common sense to what you're seeing as an outside observer.

This is a bad idea. You need to apply common sense to the SYSTEM involved, and what is happening to it...

Apply common sense to each of these pictures:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_10153450d3ba45e8e2.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1503)

Note:

In the first picture, it really doesn't look like such a solid object could collapse on itself from such small amount of damage, does it?

But then look at the second...

Makes a difference doesn't it?

No, these are not meant as accurate representations, they are intended to show to you, in a clear graphic way, how much difference it makes depending on whether you apply common sense to what you can SEE, or to what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

-Andrew

[Architect]

Sounds like we might have someone more familiar with this type of demolition :). Please help keep me honest if I mis-state anything. My demolition is more along the lines of "we need to blow a 20' hole in this reinforced concrete wall to drive the tanks through, then we need to drop that bridge so the enemy gets stalled". I've been extrapolating from my basic knowledge into areas of building demolition, but I could well be off because of particular conditions or concerns (with building demo) I'm not aware of.

Aha. No. I'm still on the lightning issue. If there's a defect in the conductor installation - poor joints, say, or badly laid out - or in a particularly heavy strike it can sideflash. Very dangerous, esp. in inhabited structures, and one of the reasons that we essentially base conductor design on a Faraday Cage. And the "wires" which earth it are called downtapes.

[Architect]

Andrew;

Nice sketch, mate.

Now lets consider the increased loading on the surviving structural members. Let's also remember that the floors are starting to sag...

[Hellbound]

Aha. No. I'm still on the lightning issue. If there's a defect in the conductor installation - poor joints, say, or badly laid out - or in a particularly heavy strike it can sideflash. Very dangerous, esp. in inhabited structures, and one of the reasons that we essentially base conductor design on a Faraday Cage. And the "wires" which earth it are called downtapes.

Ah, okay :)

I assumed sideflash and downtapes were specific to electric bleedover in demolition...heh. Wondered why they'd have specific names for it.

So I guess the explosives questions are still up to me...I'll do my best :)

[Architect]

Ah, okay :)

I assumed sideflash and downtapes were specific to electric bleedover in demolition...heh. Wondered why they'd have specific names for it.

So I guess the explosives questions are still up to me...I'll do my best :)

If this magic rebar exists, then it should be possible for the CTers to produce evidence....test results? BS, BS EN, or ISO tests? BBA? BRE? Standard specifications? Hell I've got a stainless steel fixings catalogue here and it doesn't mention any such thing.

Or they could FoI Building Warrant/Code application drawings? Or applications for demolition of tall buildings?

But of course they don't because it just doesn't exist - a bit like the ol' Invisocrete!

[gumboot]

If this magic rebar exists, then it should be possible for the CTers to produce evidence....


Who needs evidence when you have a photo taken 5 miles away!

-Andrew

[Hellbound]

If this magic rebar exists, then it should be possible for the CTers to produce evidence....test results? BS, BS EN, or ISO tests? BBA? BRE? Standard specifications? Hell I've got a stainless steel fixings catalogue here and it doesn't mention any such thing.

Or they could FoI Building Warrant/Code application drawings? Or applications for demolition of tall buildings?

But of course they don't because it just doesn't exist - a bit like the ol' Invisocrete!

Stealth nukes, man.

No boom, no flash, no residue, no radiation.

IN fact, when they're used, you can't tell that any type of explosive was ever used at all.

:D

[Architect]

Stealth nukes, man.

No boom, no flash, no residue, no radiation.

IN fact, when they're used, you can't tell that any type of explosive was ever used at all.

:D


Where can I buy one? ;)

[Hellbound]

Where can I buy one? ;)

Just send your check or money order for $1,999.99 and I'll ship it right out!

*Huntmsn tapes up another empty box and gets ready to ship it*

[Architect]

I'll swop you it for the C4 coated rebar I've got on my recently finished Manchester job.....

[Christophera]

If this magic rebar exists, then it should be possible for the CTers to produce evidence....


Who needs evidence when you have a photo taken 5 miles away!

-Andrew

Who needs evidence when you have a photo taken 5 miles away!

-Andrew

The photo of he rebar is taken from 7500 feet. The image of the spire (http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/media/56016/site1074.jpg) is taken by the same camera one second before so the scale and size of the rebar is apparent.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3159&stc=1&d=1158516673

[TheGrunion]

The photo of he rebar is taken from 7500 feet. The image of the spire (http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/media/56016/site1074.jpg) is taken by the same camera one second before so the scale and size of the rebar is apparent.

Umm....you don't know what rebar is, do you?

[Architect]

Umm....you don't know what rebar is, do you?

Chris is ill, Grunion, leave him be.

[LashL]

Additionally, if that were the case, a stray bolt of lightning could cause the whole tower to come down, and in a building that tall it's a very real possibility.

There have also been several fires in the twin towers in the years since they were built.

What would the over/under be on all of those fires missing all of those hypothetical explosives that were built into at the time of construction?

[Blue Mountain]

Umm....you don't know what rebar is, do you?
The authoratative answer, from the previous 99 pages of this thread, is a resounding YES.

[Architect]

In all fairness, in the UK we just call it reinforcement.....

[einsteen]

If we should use 'common sense' I would expect the block wouldn't fall and if it does it takes the way of least resistance, i.e. through air (after breaking some floors) and not through the building itself. But common sense is no science.

Let's have a look of the common sense of the offical report,

http://members.lycos.nl/einsteen/greening-model.gif

I can't believe people believe this utter-nonsense as a model and stop
thinking because it has been written black on white in a report.

[WildCat]

If we should use 'common sense' I would expect the block wouldn't fall and if it does it takes the way of least resistance, i.e. through air (after breaking some floors) and not through the building itself.
No, common sense says that things fall down, and can't turn in mid-air to avoid hitting something.

[chipmunk stew]

If we should use 'common sense' I would expect the block wouldn't fall and if it does it takes the way of least resistance, i.e. through air (after breaking some floors) and not through the building itself. But common sense is no science.

Let's have a look of the common sense of the offical report,

http://members.lycos.nl/einsteen/greening-model.gif

I can't believe people believe this utter-nonsense as a model and stop
thinking because it has been written black on white in a report.
What block?

[einsteen]

Here, read the assumptions

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/844/image2ee7.gif

[Christophera]

Umm....you don't know what rebar is, do you?

No evidence, no reason, no brains, only improperly phrased questions.

No wonder the government was infiltrated and so few realized.

[Architect]

No evidence, no reason, no brains, only improperly phrased questions.

Trying a bit of self-analysis, Chris?

[twinstead]

No evidence, no reason, no brains, only improperly phrased questions.



Chris. Dude. My irony meter just broke. Thanks a lot!

[Christophera]

Trying a bit of self-analysis, Chris?

No, but you should try it sometime. Your tendency to evade and pretend you know things you don't may become apparent to you as you gain self awareness.


I already did. These morons create so much garbage you lost track of it.

"Are you under the impression that columns that are assembled as segments can resist torsion? Are you under the impression that a 1300 foot steel member that is "assembled" can resist torsion? Are you under the impression that a 1300 foot piece of steel called a column can resist torsion better than 4 steel perimeter shear walls in a box shape?"

Your question doesn't make sense.