Lioness in zoo kills man who invoked God

[Lisa Simpson]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060605/od_nm/ukraine_lion_dc_1

I guess God was busy elsewhere.

[Jorghnassen]

I do believe it is God's plan to let those who shout his name is vain around large predatory animals be killed by said large predatory animals.

[Zep]

The incident, Sunday evening when the zoo was packed with visitors, was the first of its kind at the attraction. Lions and tigers are kept in an "animal island" protected by thick concrete blocks.As the saying goes, when you think something is foolproof, they invent a bigger, better fool...

[Gargoyle]

The score: 1-0 to Darwin! :clap: **standing ovations** :clap:

...or is it this the christians call a "Miracle"? God really works in mysterious ways... :confused:

[jimlintott]

"The man shouted 'God will save me, if he exists', lowered himself by a rope into the enclosure, took his shoes off and went up to the lions," the official said.
Well I guess that settles that. We can leave all this religion stuff behind us now.

ETA: How long before someone points out that isn't what 'save' means?

[I'll_buy_that]

I think this may turn me into a believer in god. :)

[Silly Green Monkey]

Actually, most believe that 'save' does also apply to physical danger. However, those would shake their heads and say he got what he deserved for testing God.

[plindboe]

Am I experiencing the worst deja vu ever, or haven't an incident similar to this one happened before?

[plindboe]

Wasn't a deja vu after all: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6396422/

TAIPEI, Taiwan - A man leaped into a lion’s den at the Taipei Zoo on Wednesday to try to convert the king of beasts to Christianity, but was bitten in the leg for his efforts.

“Jesus will save you!” shouted the 46-year-old man at two African lions lounging under a tree a few meters away.

“Come bite me!” he said with both hands raised, television footage showed.

[Dark Jaguar]

The local zoo here has "animal islands" as well for the larger animals, but doesn't use large concrete blocks (not sure how to imagine how that works without completely blocking my vision of the animals). It uses what is effectively a giant empty moat. It is slanted towards the island so that the animals can climb up and down it at their leisure, but the opposite side is a sheer wall so they can't climb up towards the visitors, and the gap is large enough they can't jump it. So, while you have to see them at a bit of a distance, they are safe, you are safe, and the island is pretty big so they have some moving space. They've since made some new sorts of enclosures, like a simulated jungle environment for the zoo's panthers. Visitors are more caged in this instance, walking through a narrow caged walkway with the artificial jungle on all sides. Seems a pretty big space. They keep it very humid in there with a sprinkler system, and they keep it hot by... it being in Oklahoma.

Anyway, just because there is a CHASM between the visitors and the potentially dangerous animals doesn't mean that some people won't be idiots. Examples: Those who insist on teasing the monkeys. The monkeys run back and forth on the "shore" of their island (and slowly more start emerging from the woodwork) as humans start acting just like them. The irony is they think they are the ones being intelligent about this. At a certain point a monkey starts making these odd gestures and it becomes apparent it wants my brother to toss it the soda he bought. Apparently, people have been feeding the animals. Anyway, my brother starts teasing the monkey by faking throwing it. Works the first time, second time he does it though the monkey gets angry. It picks up a stick and tosses it our way, but true to physics it is a light stick and the wind slows it down very quickly and it gently falls into the little moat. I could swear the next gestures had to be some monkey version of flipping us off. Anyway, we eventually left because we didn't want to give the thing a heart attack.

I will say this. The very very large animals, the rhinos and giraffes and such, have a very very large, well, REGION, to explore, and VERY tall wooden walls blocking our vision of them. To see them, find a hole that's been dug in and stare into the landscape. If you are LUCKY, one might actually be around. Yeah, those tend not to be "there" that often. Not sure how far that landscape they have goes, I couldn't see the other side.

And as I think is true with any zoo, no matter where you are, when one of the big cats roars, you know fear. Which brings me full circle back to the topic. What sort of idiot would do that, and for what purpose? What I totally missed was the reason WHY he felt it needed to go into the cage. I suppose he felt it was the surest path to, in a gesture of good will, ensuring his genetic legacy did not survive to proliferate.

[Aurelian]

Thanks for looking this up, plindboe - if I hear a weird story twice, I start to think it's an internet hoax.

[Diamond]

Now if we can only convince Kent Hovind and Pat Robertson to prove their faith like Daniel.....


Yes I'm evil.

[chriswl]

"The man shouted 'God will save me, if he exists', lowered himself by a rope into the enclosure, took his shoes off and went up to the lions," the official said.
Silly man. As everyone knows lions are atheists and have a debating style that could be characterised as "robust".

[Huntster]

As the saying goes, when you think something is foolproof, they invent a bigger, better fool...

The biggest fool is he who tries to make something foolproof.

One kook gone, a couple billion to go.............

[Huntster]

...or is it this the christians call a "Miracle"? God really works in mysterious ways... :confused:

Neither a miracle, nor mysterious.

Pretty predictable, as far as I can tell.

[Gargoyle]

Neither a miracle, nor mysterious.

Pretty predictable, as far as I can tell.

The man prayed to God and God answered in the only way possible! This is truly a miracle! :p

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Neither a miracle, nor mysterious.

Pretty predictable, as far as I can tell.
The man prayed to God and God answered in the only way possible! This is truly a miracle! :p

A man lowers himself into a lion's den at a zoo invoking the protection of God. He is killed by the lions.

He finds himself at the Gates of Heaven, stands naked before God, and asks, "Almighty God, I lowered myself into the den of Lions invoking your protection, but they killed me. Why didn't you protect me?"

God answered, "I had the zoo engineering dept. design an enclosure that the lions couldn't escape from, I had the zoo's legal staff insert disclosures in the zoo's entrance literature, and I had the world's newspapers insert stories of fools who have done stupid things in bear enclosures around the world so all could learn.

What more should I have done?

But take heart, child........You don't go to Hell for being stupid. You go to Hell for rejecting my Name and Grace. You, therefore, are welcome to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

[thaiboxerken]

In huntster's universe, there are such things as gods, heaven and hell. Huntster, your god didn't hire the engineering department or the zoo's staff or even come up with safety laws. People, real people, did that.

[Abdul Alhazred]

The Lord used a lion to call him home. :p

[Huntster]

In huntster's universe, there are such things as gods, heaven and hell.......

Why, yes..........yes there are.

Unfortunately, there is also you.

Go have a drink, Kenny (See sig line below.................)

[RSLancastr]

Lions 1, Christians 0

(I know, it doesn't say he was a Christian, but the joke doesn't work otherwise...)

[TragicMonkey]

This story proves the power of prayer....

If you're a lion praying to the Lion Gods for fresh meat.

[Dark Jaguar]

Why, yes..........yes there are.

Unfortunately, there is also you.

Go have a drink, Kenny (See sig line below.................)

I couldn't help but notice you didn't bother quoting the rest, so I'll remind you.

He insinuated that no god was responsible for the zoo's construction or the news articles the guy could have come across and rather all evidence points to those being merely the work of human beings.

Meanwhile, your rebuttal is that being a total idiot that ignores the way the world around him works and is completely self centered enough to believe that his own mind holds priority over reality gets into heaven, whereas the person that sees no reason to believe in a god of any sort, much less any specific itteration, has earned eternal hellfire for transgressions only a god would care about. Let me ask you. Why do I deserve to burn forever? Am I inherently evil? Well, perhaps you don't know, perhaps I keep human heads in my freezer that I obtained without the heads' owners' consent. If you define evil as something else, as I once did, why? Why IS it evil in and of itself just to disobey someone who doesn't even make their orders clear and can offer no real legitimate reason why they should be obeyed to begin with, outside of "might makes right"?

[thaiboxerken]

Jaguar, the short answer is "because you don't believe what Hunster believes, you're gonna go to hell."

He's gonna feed you a line of christian propoganda and apologies though.

[Dark Jaguar]

I know, but I am interested to see how he deals with the situation. As an ex-Christian I know his mentality to a degree (from what he's stated it's familiar enough) but I also know how I got out of it and I'm trying to ask the questions I only answered very pathetically when I was a Christian, the ones that eventually got me to rethink it all.

Interesting to note though (noticing your sig there) that the bible actually does talk about unicorns at a certain point as creatures that really exist. Nothing that could be used against a fundamentalist mind you. As a creationist (yes, I was the worst kind of Christian, the science denying kind, but I was denying only the information I was actually presented about evolution and when I actually read some real literature on the subject it certainly broke some preconceptions), I basically had a totally different kind of "history of the world" than most and, though I wouldn't have said it at the time, essentially used my imagination to tell me what happened in the past :D. Sad isn't it? I consider myself not entirely an idiot, so I can only conclude that self deception is a fun skill anyone can engage in if properly motivated. No max IQ restrictions!

And, noticing Hunsters' sig, at least you source the original post so I can see exactly how you take it out of context.

I'm hardly intolerant of the people of the other side, if they changed their mind I'd accept their position. (http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showpost.php?p=1673990&postcount=373) - Thaiboxerken
Funny, but this was in a conversation pointing out that you were being very bigotted and would still hate homosexuals even if they couldn't get married. The point was that while he would no longer mind people if they changed their mind on some delicate issue, you would still mind them.

My opinion has the authority of reality..... (http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showpost.php?p=1646609&postcount=58) thaiboxerken
This is in regards to big foot, a classic wooism. What he meant was that his opinion had the full observed reality to back it up. Big Foot has not been observed in any form (excluding fictional reresentation of him). Therefore, it is only logical to assume he does not exist until shown otherwise.

I'm always right. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1647296&postcount=196) thaiboxerken
This was clearly a joke, but it seems you are intentionally mislabelling it as serious to "make a point" about him or something.

I go out drinking with my buddy, Bigfoot. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1646281&postcount=51) thaiboxerken
This too was a joke, but a bit more of an "offensive" one to those that believe in big foot. In no way did he actually mean he hallucinates big foot when he gets drunk, or whatever the heck this quote is supposed to say about him.

I'm stronger than your god. Your god can't even lift an ounce. I'm more powerful than your god. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1670550&postcount=140) thaiboxerken
Someone that's real can lift more real weight than someone who isn't real. This is a perfectly accurate statement to make. For that matter, an ant is stronger than your god (used to be mine, so I can say this :D). Of course, if your god was actually real, then clearly he could bench press the known universe (not sure how that would work, but he totally could if he existed). Show us he exists and then you can debate the accuracy of his claim. For that matter, he's also saying he's "more right" than your god (bad grammar aside, the basic thrust of the claim is still accurate until your god bothers to actually say something to us and also accuses your god of being a coward, which apparently doesn't bother you either, because of course he's just like that, he doesn't have to answer to anyone, he's GOD!).

[Huntster]

...your rebuttal is that being a total idiot that ignores the way the world around him works and is completely self centered enough to believe that his own mind holds priority over reality gets into heaven.....


Actually, my rebuttal was directed towards an individual who "is completely self centered enough to believe that his own mind holds priority over reality".

In other words, my response was directed towards an idiot.

My response was not directed at or towards you.

Funny you replied................

See my linked signature line below, especially those two specific lines:

"I'm always right", and

"My opinion has the authority of reality".

Maybe you and Kenny can go out drinking with Bigfoot....................

[Huntster]

I know, but I am interested to see how he deals with the situation. As an ex-Christian I know his mentality to a degree....

You don't know squat.

[thaiboxerken]

Actually, my rebuttal was directed towards an individual who "is completely self centered enough to believe that his own mind holds priority over reality".

That's quite the strawman you've built. It seems to me that you are the one that asserts that your beliefs are reality, even though there is no evidence to support your beliefs.

See my linked signature line below, especially those two specific lines:

"I'm always right", and

"My opinion has the authority of reality".

Maybe you and Kenny can go out drinking with Bigfoot.

Jaguar, you'll quickly notice that sarcasm is lost on Huntster and that he takes every post literally.

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Actually, my rebuttal was directed towards an individual who "is completely self centered enough to believe that his own mind holds priority over reality".
That's quite the strawman you've built. It seems to me that you are the one that asserts that your beliefs are reality, even though there is no evidence to support your beliefs.

Jaguar, you'll quickly notice that sarcasm is lost on Huntster and that he takes every post literally.

That's no strawman. I have you quoted and linked.

You've got a mouth that's bigger than your head, even though that seems difficult to achieve.

[Dark Jaguar]

Actually, my rebuttal was directed towards an individual who "is completely self centered enough to believe that his own mind holds priority over reality".

In other words, my response was directed towards an idiot.

My response was not directed at or towards you.

Funny you replied................

See my linked signature line below, especially those two specific lines:

"I'm always right", and

"My opinion has the authority of reality".

Maybe you and Kenny can go out drinking with Bigfoot....................

I already decided to edit my post by dealing with these odd quotes. You can check the post above yours to see the details, but the gist of it is: you blatantly take the statements out of context, and it seems you do it intentionally.

"I'm always right" was a joke.

"My opinion has the authority of reality" was in reference to ONE of his opinions which DID have the backing of reality.

And the drinking with bigfoot thing, since you seem to have forgotten, does in fact counter his opinion that big foot does not exist and as such should clearly be taken as not just a joke but a sleight against your own beliefs. Rude perhaps, but you still misrepresented his statement as an actual literal statement (not sure why).

[Dark Jaguar]

You don't know squat.

Quite possible. Outline your core beliefs concerning Christianity and I'll be able to see if that's the case or not. So far I can at least say a large number of the statements you've made comply with equivilant beliefs I held as a Christian.

But anyway, we hijacked a perfectly innocent thread about a guy being mauled by a lion. Let's take this outside.

[JollyRoger]

too much faith and not enough common sense

[thaiboxerken]

: you blatantly take the statements out of context, and it seems you do it intentionally.

Rude perhaps, but you still misrepresented his statement as an actual literal statement (not sure why).

It's because it's all he can do. The funny thing is, I doubt it has fooled even one critical thinker in the forum. I don't think anyone in the forum actually believes that I believe I have had cocktails with bigfoot.

But, Huntster is an odd fella, he laughs at jokes that are only his to laugh at. That, and he believes sasquatch are real creatures.

[Huntster]

......you blatantly take the statements out of context, and it seems you do it intentionally....

They're linked for confirmation.

"I'm always right" was a joke.

thaiboxerken is "the joke".

"My opinion has the authority of reality" was in reference to ONE of his opinions which DID have the backing of reality.

You must be just like him.

An opinion is an opinion.

And the drinking with bigfoot thing, since you seem to have forgotten, does in fact counter his opinion that big foot does not exist and as such should clearly be taken as not just a joke but a sleight against your own beliefs. Rude perhaps, but you still misrepresented his statement as an actual literal statement (not sure why).

He tried to make a lame joke.

The joke's on him.

Go have a drink with him and his buddy.

[Huntster]

too much faith and not enough common sense

Barely enough faith, and more common sense than most.

[Roboramma]

What more should I have done?

Not filling the world with morons stupid enough to jump into lion enclosures might have been a start...

[Almo]

I suppose he felt it was the surest path to, in a gesture of good will, ensuring his genetic legacy did not survive to proliferate.

Depends on if he had children yet or not. :(

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
What more should I have done?
Not filling the world with morons stupid enough to jump into lion enclosures might have been a start...

Clearly, the man was mentally ill.

Are you stating that it was some religious belief and not mental illness that caused the man to do such a thing?

[thaiboxerken]

Are you stating that it was some religious belief and not mental illness that caused the man to do such a thing?

Religious belief and mental illness are not exclusive of each other.

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Are you stating that it was some religious belief and not mental illness that caused the man to do such a thing?
Religious belief and mental illness are not exclusive of each other.

And you are proof that they are not synonymous.

[thaiboxerken]

And you are proof that they are not synonymous.

I highly doubt that you are qualified to analyze mental illness, especially from simple internet forum interaction. Simply because I don't believe in gods or sasquatch doesn't make me mentally ill.

You think the guy was mentally ill. Perhaps he just has much more faith in the christian god than you do.

[Huntster]

....You think the guy was mentally ill. Perhaps he just has much more faith in the christian god than you do.

Did you think about that before you typed it?

[strathmeyer]

Did you think about that before you typed it?

Oh, I don't think you want to bring up 'thinking'.

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Did you think about that before you typed it?
Oh, I don't think you want to bring up 'thinking'.

No need to bother with a guy who posts statements like those in my sig lines.

The answer is apparent.

[jimlintott]

No need to bother with a guy who posts statements like those in my sig lines.

The answer is apparent.
You're one of those guys who should wear the old "I have no sense of humour" sign.

The line between religous fundamenatlism and mental illness is thin and blurry indeed. Talk to Napolean and you're crazy. Talk to god and you're a prophet.

I don't get it.

[thaiboxerken]

No need to bother with a guy who posts statements like those in my sig lines.

The answer is apparent.

At least one person agrees that the quotes of mine you've given do not give evidence to support your opinions of me.

But that's ok. You keep thinking that I am an idiot, I'll just keep in mind that you believe in supernatural beings and mythical creatures, like sasquatch.

[Dark Jaguar]

They're linked for confirmation.


Yes, he did say them, but perhaps you misunderstand the concept of "context". I explained the exact context such statements were made in, and as such they lose their "sting" pretty quickly.


thaiboxerken is "the joke".


.....clever....


You must be just like him.

An opinion is an opinion.


I agree with his point therefor we are identical. Okay.
An opinion is an opinion. Very inciteful. However, opinions can be wrong. It is my opinion that I am the son of Quetzequatl (spelling? I know I got that wrong), the reptilian god of all things cool. It is my opinion that germs don't make people sick, Santa Claus does. It is my opinion that the earth is not round, it is decadophonic (which doesn't even make sense). I can hold these opinions if I wish, but they are not backed by evidence. The one who holds that I am just a human with no relation to a fiction, that germs do cause a large number of diseases and not a cold fat man, that the earth is mostly round and not a sound system will have the backing of observations about the world. One can hold whatever opinions they want, but either they are backed by observations about reality or they are not. In this case, his was, yours wasn't.


He tried to make a lame joke.

The joke's on him.


Lame? Yeah perhaps. I won't debate that. "The joke's on him"? Not sure I understand your meaning. In what way? How does that make him look bad in any way other than possibly having a bad sense of humor? Does a bad joke equal "he must have meant it literally"?


Go have a drink with him and his buddy.

Again, this was a JOKE. He doesn't think he drinks with bigfoot. It may have been a bad joke, but if anyone should be drinking with bigfoot, it's the one that believes he actually exists.

[Morrigan]

Wow, I have never seen someone grasping at straws as much as Huntster tried to do by trying to discredit Thaiboxerken with his "clever" sig lines.

If that's the best material against him that Huntster can come up with, it's far more telling about Huntster than Ken.

[Huntster]

....The line between religous fundamenatlism and mental illness is thin and blurry indeed.....

Wow.

I don't get it.

Obviously.

[Huntster]

....You keep thinking that I am an idiot, I'll just keep in mind that you believe in supernatural beings and mythical creatures, like sasquatch.

Fair enough.

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
....An opinion is an opinion.

I agree with his point therefor we are identical. Okay.
An opinion is an opinion. Very inciteful. However, opinions can be wrong....

Correct. That's why his opinion cannot have "the authority of reality".

...One can hold whatever opinions they want, but either they are backed by observations about reality or they are not. In this case, his was, yours wasn't....

And that's your opinion..............

...if anyone should be drinking with bigfoot, it's the one that believes he actually exists....

I believe that sasquatch creatures exist. I don't believe they drink alcohol socially.

[Huntster]

...If that's the best material against him that Huntster can come up with, it's far more telling about Huntster than Ken.

I don't need to "come up with" material.

Kenny does a great job of making himself look like an idiot.

"I'm always right"............

Bwahahahahahahahahahahah!!

[Roboramma]

Clearly, the man was mentally ill.

Are you stating that it was some religious belief and not mental illness that caused the man to do such a thing?

No. I'm suggesting that if god is responsible for the actions of some people - those who built the zoo and designed the enclosure, for instance, as you suggested in the post I was responding to - then there's no reason to suggest that he's not responsible for the actions of others. Unless you have some special knowledge of who is acting out god's commands and who is not.

Also, since the man was created by god (in your worldview), then ultimately god is responsible for his mental illness.
In short, you can't use free will to suggest that god is not responsible for this man's actions if you are going to give god credit for other people's actions (like those of the people who designed the enclosure). He either must take responsibility for both, or neither.

[Huntster]

No. I'm suggesting that if god is responsible for the actions of some people - those who built the zoo and designed the enclosure, for instance, as you suggested in the post I was responding to - then there's no reason to suggest that he's not responsible for the actions of others. Unless you have some special knowledge of who is acting out god's commands and who is not.

Also, since the man was created by god (in your worldview), then ultimately god is responsible for his mental illness.
In short, you can't use free will to suggest that god is not responsible for this man's actions if you are going to give god credit for other people's actions (like those of the people who designed the enclosure). He either must take responsibility for both, or neither.

Sounds logical.

God killed him.

That's what you want to read, right?

[Roboramma]

Sounds logical.

God killed him.

That's what you want to read, right?

No, I don't think god had anything to do with it, as I don't believe in god.

I don't even really think that it's religion per se that should be blamed for this. There was just a crazy guy who jumped in a lion enclosure and what you'd expect to happen happened. I'm certainly not in much of a position to say why he did that.

I just didn't like the way your post suggested that god is responsible for people's good actions but not their negative ones. I don't think he's responsible for either (because he doesn't exist, so how could he be?).

You may not think he's responsible for people's actions either, which is fine. Or you may think he is responsible for people's actions. Again, fine.
What doesn't make sense is assuming that everything good that people do is attributable to god, and everything bad they do is attributable to their own weakness - whether that be stupidity or malace - and then praising god for all those good things.

I think it makes a lot more sense to both blame and praise people for their actions, rather than god.

[pchams]

In my opinion, religion is a mental illness. It is prevalent the world over.
There are conditions such as sickle cell anemia that can function to preserve
a person under certain conditions. In other conditions, it is detrimental.
I have no reason to believe that the mind functions differently than observed
biology. In this way, it is possible that religion has functioned for the preservation of the species, but at this time is nothing less than debilitating for our present condition.

[Huntster]

...I just didn't like the way your post suggested that god is responsible for people's good actions but not their negative ones....

Never heard the joke about the guy in the flood, huh? I patterned my post around it:

A guy climbs onto the roof of his house during a flood. Soon a rescuer comes by in a boat, and asks the guy if he needs help. The man yells back, "No, God will save me". The rescuer leaves to rescue others.

A little later a helicopter comes by, and with a loudspeaker, asks the man if he is ready to be lifted up to safety. The man yells back, "No, God will save me". The helicopter leaves to rescue others.

Soon afterwards, the floodwaters rise over the house, sweeps the man away, and he is killed.

The man finds himself standing naked before God, and asks Him, "Lord, why didn't you rescue me like I was sure you would?"

God replies, "I sent a boat and a helicopter, and you refused the help. What else would you have me do?"

Get it? Flood/boat/helicopter and zoo/disclaimer/moat/cage?

The moral of both stories (one true, the other a joke) is that if you do something stupid, you're likely to pay the price.

Now, if you want to turn this into another "bash Huntster's God" thread, because you just can't stand the fact that the Huntster woos for God, by all means, please continue.

After all, you don't have anything better to do, do you?

I'll play along. I have to go unload the Argo off the trailer, but I'll be back in a few...............

[Huntster]

In my opinion, religion is a mental illness....

That's right. It's your opinion.

It is prevalent the world over.

So is social, commercial, political, and ideological propaganda.

But, of course, you just want to focus on the religious propaganda, don't you?

[Dark Jaguar]

My opinion? Since when are direct observations about the world opinions? Either there's evidence of bigfoot's existance or there isn't. If you've been withholding evidence, that's very selfish of you. Present it, and your opinions will have the backing of reality.

[Huntster]

My opinion? Since when are direct observations about the world opinions?...

When you don't have any evidence to elevate them above opinion.

Religion and spirituality, by their very nature, require faith to support. There is little or no evidence.

Either there's evidence of bigfoot's existance or there isn't....

Huh? I thought we were discussing religion, lions, and mental illness here.

Was there a sasquatch in the cage, too?

Was Ken in the cage having a drink? (See sig line below..........)

If you've been withholding evidence, that's very selfish of you. Present it, and your opinions will have the backing of reality.

Cute.

[Roboramma]

Never heard the joke about the guy in the flood, huh? I patterned my post around it:
The joke's funny. It's very different to say that it's true, though. I know you're not saying the joke itself is true. But finding the joke funny is easy, and doesn't require it's logic to be completely consistent.

The moral of both stories (one true, the other a joke) is that if you do something stupid, you're likely to pay the price.
Well, that's a moral that I think we can both agree with. I'm not taking issue with it. I'm taking issue with, as I said earlier, the suggestion that god is responsible for the good things people do, but not the stupid things they do.

If you were just trying to make a point, cool, no worries, it's a decent joke.
Do you see my point, though? That you can't credit god for the things people do that you approve of, and blame people for the things they do that you don't approve of?

Now, if you want to turn this into another "bash Huntster's God" thread, because you just can't stand the fact that the Huntster woos for God, by all means, please continue.
No intention of doing that. I'm only arguing with your view of god, which is very different from bashing your god, because I don't think that veiw is consistent. I'm not even trying to argue atheism here. Just consistency.

After all, you don't have anything better to do, do you? Probably should be doing a lot of other things right now, actually...