White supremacists and leftists both hate Israel.

[JAR]

Anyone else noticed that both white supremacists and leftists hate Israel. They have something in common.

[max]

I am a white supremist and love Israel and its people. It is a beautiful country mainly cultivated and planned by the hard working Israelis while the Palestinians sat in their tents brewing coffee and bemoaning their lot.

edited to say I was only kidding about the white supremist bit.:D :D

[Akots]

Something in common... hmm. What could such a gross overgeneralization refer to...

...they both ride bicycles? :confused:

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by JAR
Anyone else noticed that both white supremacists and leftists hate Israel. They have something in common.

Ha! therefore liberals are in fact white supremacists in disguise!!!

JAR, what a masterpiece of critical thinking that is!

[Tricky]

Originally posted by max
I am a white supremist and love Israel and its people. It is a beautiful country mainly cultivated and planned by the hard working Israelis while the Palestinians sat in their tents brewing coffee and bemoaning their lot.
I am a leftist and I love Israel. Not too crazy about some of their politicians...

[JAR]

Originally posted by max
I am a white supremist and love Israel and its people. It is a beautiful country mainly cultivated and planned by the hard working Israelis while the Palestinians sat in their tents brewing coffee and bemoaning their lot.
Come on, Max. You don't want to be a white supremacist. [Edited to add: I just found out that he was kidding about the white supremacist part from his edit] Muslim women are too attractive for us to want to kill them all. If we give it time, this whole Muslim fanaticism thing will blow over.

Dark skin, in my opinion, is superior to light skin. I wish I had dark skin. Then I wouldn't get sunburns and the dreaded farmer's tan. I have a farmer's tan right now. I have noticed that Mexican women, Arabic women, Mediterranean women in general, Iranian women, and Dezi women(women from Pakistan and India) have the most beautiful complexions. It is amazing the effect nature has achieved.

[Victor Danilchenko]

Heh. What Tricky said...

[Dancing David]

Uh, what ,I can't hear you over the reactionary creaking in my knees.
I think you might be the new JK!

Peace

[JAR]

I think there is a huge correlation between leftist values and racial supremacist values. Both leftists and racial supremacists yearn for the old days, when people inhabited their ancestral lands, the days when the Palestinians lived in Palestine, the Gaels lived in Ireland and Scotland and spoke Gaelic, when the German race dwelt in Germany and spoke German, it's ancestral tongue.

If you give leftists enough time, they will turn into racial supremacists.

[Questioninggeller]

Originally posted by Akots
Something in common... hmm. What could such a gross overgeneralization refer to...

...they both ride bicycles? :confused:

they both have two legs also

[Questioninggeller]

Originally posted by JAR
I think there is a huge correlation between leftist values and racial supremacist values. Both leftists and racial supremacists yearn for the old days, when people inhabited their ancestral lands, the days when the Palestinians lived in Palestine, the Gaels lived in Ireland and Scotland and spoke Gaelic, when the German race dwelt in Germany and spoke German, it's ancestral tongue.

If you give leftists enough time, they will turn into racial supremacists.

Bu**sh*t... MOST (NOT ALL) racists are conservative (remember the KKK) and are opposed to changes and "foreign ideas that are opposed" to "Americanism". The Nazi's were as far right as anyone and the killed six million Jews. It sounds like that www.davidduke.com crap, that simple minds look to turn their rage into a political agenda.

The political spectrum is more complicated than most people on this BB allow. There are some righty/lefty people who support Israel on this BB and there are some righty/lefty people who don't.

The reasoning is flaw because: leftists and racial supremacists yearn for the old days simply is not true. I argue that rightist agenda wants to go back to libertainism, but that also does not link them to being racist.

Don't draw a line connecting progressive ideas to racism, that is offensive to many people.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Questioninggeller



Don't draw a line connecting progressive ideas to racism, that is offensive to many people.

Is institutionalized racism in the form of affirmative action a "progressive idea"?

[Questioninggeller]

Originally posted by Tony
Is institutionalized racism in the form of affirmative action a "progressive idea"?
[/B]
You're right, too subjective:

I'll reword that: Don't connect "left" to hate.

[JAR]

Originally posted by Questioninggeller
The Nazi's were as far right as anyone and the killed six million Jews. It sounds like that www.davidduke.com crap, that simple minds look to turn their rage into a political agenda.
The Nazis were socialists. Otto von Bismarck, who was the quintessential conservative, was opposed to socialism. The Nazis were leftists.

One must also remember that it was the Democrats who supported slavery in the years preceding the American Civil War. The Republican Abraham Lincoln, was against it. The leftist Democrats supported slavery.

[Questioninggeller]

Originally posted by JAR

The Nazis were socialists. Otto von Bismarck, who was the quintessential conservative, was opposed to socialism. The Nazis were leftists.

One must also remember that it was the Democrats who supported slavery in the years preceding the American Civil War. The Republican Abraham Lincoln, was against it. The leftist Democrats supported slavery.

The name National Socialist means nothing. Watch that show on CBS called Hitler on Tuesday, or read about Hitler. It was very, very conservative.

Yes Lincoln was a Republican, this means nothing, in fact during his first ingural address he said he would keep slavery if it would keep the country together. Then in 1920's era the parties began to change. The Republicans lost many liberals and the Democrats needed to gain more voter support, so they expanded their spectrum to more ideas-- making them liberal.

--This is a good topic, I'm gonna start a new post.

[Dancing David]

Affirmative action as institutionalized rasicm, no way to counter that argument, except for the fact that
THE UNITED STAES IS NOT A MERITOCRACY!

When white kids complain about not getting into law school because there is some affirmative action program, they just ignire the fact that there are plenty of white kids who got into law school without the grades. IE the got in because thier grandfather got, they got in because thier parents made a large donation to the school, they get in because mommy bribes a politician, they get in because thier brother belongs to the same fraternity as the admissions chair. In short they get into school because of privilege and money not merit.

I would be happier if there was a better way to intergrate our society but can you give me another way that gets around the backroom factor? I would hope that no unqualified person would recieve placement because of affirmative action, only that qualified people be considered and that it be done only until minorities have thier own back room power, then it is a level playing field.

Peace

[Tony]

Originally posted by Dancing David


When white kids complain about not getting into law school because there is some affirmative action program, they just ignire the fact that there are plenty of white kids who got into law school without the grades. IE the got in because thier grandfather got, they got in because thier parents made a large donation to the school, they get in because mommy bribes a politician, they get in because thier brother belongs to the same fraternity as the admissions chair. In short they get into school because of privilege and money not merit.



Now you're letting your bigotry cloud your judgement, not all white kids have those kinds of connections. In fact, most dont.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Tony


Now you're letting your bigotry cloud your judgement, not all white kids have those kinds of connections. In fact, most dont.

:eek:

Broadly speaking Dancing David's point is true, AA is a handy scapegoat for the way some universities prejudice against first-time attenders, children of blue collar workers &c &c. Do you have the phrase "old boys' network" in the US?

[Tony]

Originally posted by BillyTK




Broadly speaking Dancing David's point is true, AA is a handy scapegoat for the way some universities prejudice against first-time attenders, children of blue collar workers &c &c. Do you have the phrase "old boys' network" in the US?


Broadly speaking its NoT true, most white kids dont have those kinds of connections.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Tony



Broadly speaking its NoT true, most white kids dont have those kinds of connections.

Most of the 'white kids' I know or knew when I myself was a 'white kid' didnt.

So in any case, shouldnt AA be directed to benfit those who are actually disadvantaged rather than those who arent white?

[Dancing David]

EEEEK a straw mouse!

I meant the white kids whose familes have money, and they haven't got what it takes for admission to college but they get to go anyway, because money talks, that other stuff walks.

Peace

[Tony]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london




So in any case, shouldnt AA be directed to benfit those who are actually disadvantaged rather than those who arent white?

Absolutly, AA should be economic based, not race based.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Dancing David


I meant the white kids whose familes have money, and they haven't got what it takes for admission to college but they get to go anyway, because money talks, that other stuff walks.



I hope you realize those kids are few and far between.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Tony


I hope you realize those kids are few and far between.

Not in the Michigan law school case they weren't.

I like the economic idea a lot that would be color blind, would it be based on the poverty level?

A very good idea , how would it work in hiring?

Peace

[originalgagster]

Originally posted by JAR
I think there is a huge correlation between leftist values and racial supremacist values. Both leftists and racial supremacists yearn for the old days, when people inhabited their ancestral lands, the days when the Palestinians lived in Palestine, the Gaels lived in Ireland and Scotland and spoke Gaelic, when the German race dwelt in Germany and spoke German, it's ancestral tongue.



You are just rambling now. Seriously. What do you mean about leftists who yearn for the days when gaels lived in Scotland? I'm a scot and ive never met any of these people, perhaps you can fill me in on exactly what you mean.

And precisely what parallels do you draw between the ancient inhabitants of northern Europe and the current problems in the occupied territories? :confused:

Left wing criticism of Israel has nothing to do with nostalgic whimsy over the long lost glory of Palestine, but on the continual humanitarian injustices being meted out to the Arab people in the occupied areas.

[tamiO]

In other news.....

Black Supremists hate both Israel and right wingers.

[JAR]

Originally posted by tamiO
Black Supremists hate both Israel and right wingers.
Maybe I should have said that Racial Supremacists and leftists both hate Israel.

I've heard about the anti-semitism found among a portion of the African-Americans. Where I live in southern California, its difficult for African-Americans to be anti-semitic because it's hard to tell Jews apart from other white people.

A few years ago, Louis Ferrakhan(I don't know how to spell his name) said that he had gotten rid of his anti-semitic views. He might be an anti-semite again. I don't know.

[tamiO]

Originally posted by JAR

Where I live in southern California, its difficult for African-Americans to be anti-semitic because it's hard to tell Jews apart from other white people.



You are for real aren't you?

In other news everyone loves Hebrew International Hot Dogs.
Except Farakhan. He probably likes fried chicken and watermelon.



:rolleyes:

[JAR]

Originally posted by tamiO
You are for real aren't you?
Yes, I live in southern California, if that's what you mean by "for real".

[JAR]

Originally posted by tamiO
In other news everyone loves Hebrew International Hot Dogs.
Except Farakhan. He probably likes fried chicken and watermelon.

A portion of the African-Americans where I live might be anti-semitic. If they are, they haven't told me about it. I did know people in high school who belonged to the Nation of Islam and Nation of Islam has anti-semitic values, so there had to be some anti-semitic African-Americans at my high school, but they never talked about it.

There was this guy who sold or gave out Nation of Islam newspapers(I don't know which) on one of the corners right outside the school. I think he sold drugs on the side. My evidence that he sold drugs is that one time two African-American teenagers walked up to him and gave him some money. Then he dropped a small clear bag with white powder on the ground next to him. One of the two teenagers grabbed it and they both ran off.

[tamiO]

Originally posted by JAR

Yes, I live in southern California, if that's what you mean by "for real".

Actually, I meant the bigoted remarks you make. You seem to carry it off in an innocent child like manner.

I didn't mean what I posted, but apparently you are "for real".

[JAR]

Originally posted by tamiO
Actually, I meant the bigoted remarks you make. You seem to carry it off in an innocent child like manner.

I didn't mean what I posted, but apparently you are "for real".
These aren't "bigoted remarks" tamiO. When one talks about ethnic groups, one has to throw around words like "white people", "Jews", "African-Americans."

One can't talk about ethnic groups without using these words.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
So in any case, shouldnt AA be directed to benfit those who are actually disadvantaged rather than those who arent white?

I agree. It's the conclusion of the article I linked to (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A41620-2002Apr12&notFound=true) in the Affirmative Action thread, that AA should be extended to address all forms of disadvantage, and not just issues of skin-colour.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Tony



Broadly speaking its NoT true, most white kids dont have those kinds of connections.

Broadly speaking, it is true, and the fact that most white kids don't have these connections proves the point; it's the few white kids who do have the connections who benefit to the cost of everyone else.

[Tony]

Originally posted by BillyTK


Broadly speaking, it is true, and the fact that most white kids don't have these connections proves the point; it's the few white kids who do have the connections who benefit to the cost of everyone else.

Its true when you change the parameters of your argument, first it was white kids that had connections, now its a few white kids with connections that benifit at the cost of everyone else. If thats true then why arent the white kids without connections being helped by affirmative action?

My point is, if only a few kids have those kinds of connections, why is the whole race being penalized? Its racism plain and simple.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Dancing David


I like the economic idea a lot that would be color blind, would it be based on the poverty level?



Poverty level or parent's income.

A very good idea , how would it work in hiring?

I wouldnt. People have the right to hire who they want, after all, it is THEIR company.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Tony
Its true when you change the parameters of your argument, first it was white kids that had connections, now its a few white kids with connections that benifit at the cost of everyone else. If thats true then why arent the white kids without connections being helped by affirmative action?

I haven't changed the parameters of the argument, you did. Look at Dancing David's original statement that white kids blame Affirmative Action for prejudicing their chances of getting a university but ignore the privilege that rich kids enjoy over them; your reply was that:
Broadly speaking its NoT true, most white kids dont have those kinds of connections.
as if this rebutted the argument, which it doesn't; it makes the argument stronger, which is what I was pointing out.
My point is, if only a few kids have those kinds of connections, why is the whole race being penalized? Its racism plain and simple.
How is "the whole race" being penalised? Surely it's only kids who want to go to university who are being penalised? And according to studies, even if Affirmative Action programmes were binned and admission was based on SATS alone, it would only increase a white kid's chance of getting a college place by 1% (source for figures as previous link).