Arab Militias now Ethnically Cleansing Chad

[Skeptic]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/22632/darfurs-terrible-export.thtml

Apparently Darfur wasn't enough; there are still non-Arabs around, which is intolerable to the Janjaweed.

[Tony]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/22632/darfurs-terrible-export.thtml

Apparently Darfur wasn't enough; there are still non-Arabs around, which is intolerable to the Janjaweed.

Death, the fruit of fundamentalism.

[BobK]

Oops. My mistake.

I thought you said ethically. I thought maybe they had turned over a new leaf.;)

[BPSCG]

Death, the fruit of fundamentalism fundamentalist Islam.Corrected.

[BPSCG]

Apparently Darfur wasn't enough; there are still non-Arabs around, which is intolerable to the Janjaweed.Well, maybe the non-Arabs should have tried to find out the root causes of the Arabs' hatred for them, what they were doing to provoke the Arabs.

I'm guessing it has to do with centuries of persecution, stealing their oil, the Crusades...

[Tony]

Corrected.

Yeah, all those deaths perpetrated by fundy christians and catholics are a lie. So is the holocaust. Anymore apologies you wish to make?

[Skeptic]

Of course! How silly of us not to think about that. It of course makes sense that the "root cause" of the whole thing is the African tribesmen's actions. It's all their fault.

Still, your position, BPSCG, is a bit too pro-Arab. Let us all agree on the balanced, reasonable view that the black tribesmen being butchered and the Arab militias butchering them are equally to blame for the "tragedy" of Arabs butchering non-Arabs for their land.

I mean, you don't want to be an extremist or something and claim it is all the fault of the Arab murderers, would you?

P.S.

Incidentally, needless to say, not a peep out of the "human rights" brigade in this forum. No jews to blame here...

[Jocko]

Incidentally, needless to say, not a peep out of the "human rights" brigade in this forum. No jews to blame here...

Not so fast there, Skeptic. We haven't heard your alibi yet, now have we? ;)

[Tony]

Incidentally, needless to say, not a peep out of the "human rights" brigade in this forum.

I guess you're too stupid to notice that I've posted twice on this thread (this post makes 3). Continue with your demagoguery.

[Jocko]

I guess you're too stupid to notice that I've posted twice on this thread (this post makes 3). Continue with your demagoguery.

I think he was sarcastically referencing AUP, Fool and the usual "selectively compassionate" posters. Unless you feel like including yourself with them, of course... :)

[Cleon]

Continue with your demagoguery.

You might as well tell Anne Coulter to continue being obnoxious.

[UserGoogol]

Nothing is ever exclusively any one person's fault, the chains of causality go back forever.

But that's not really what Tony was saying. Tony was merely saying that fundamentalism in general leads to death; it is merely that fundamentalist Islam is the religion which has bearing its fruit a hell of a lot more than the others in recent memory.

Although it's debatable whether you can totally blame the actions of the Janjaweed on their fundamentalism. Fundamentalist Islam is certainly present and probably a contributing factor, but at first glance the conflict seems to be more ethnic than religious in nature.

[Tony]

Fundamentalist Islam is certainly present and probably a contributing factor, but at first glance the conflict seems to be more ethnic than religious in nature.

Don't the two usually go hand-in-hand?

[Cleon]

Don't the two usually go hand-in-hand?
They can, but not necessarily "usually." The Holocaust, for example, was not based on a religious disagreement with Jews, but a perceived racial inferiority. The slaughter between the Hutus and Tutsis had very little to do with religion, if anything at all. Ditto for the Armenian genocide.

[BPSCG]

Yeah, all those deaths perpetrated by fundy christians and catholics are a lie. So is the holocaust. Anymore apologies you wish to make?
The Holocaust, for example, was not based on a religious disagreement with Jews, but a perceived racial inferiority. The slaughter between the Hutus and Tutsis had very little to do with religion, if anything at all. Ditto for the Armenian genocide.Shhh... don't tell Tony that. Didn't you know Hitler was a PraiseJeezusHallelujah! Baptist?

You want to try to straighten Tony out? He doesn't listen to me much.

[geni]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/22632/darfurs-terrible-export.thtml

Apparently Darfur wasn't enough; there are still non-Arabs around, which is intolerable to the Janjaweed.

Err yes this has been going on for some time.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55326

The chadians know how to fight. If they can settle their internal differnces for a while the Janjaweed may find they have bitten off a lot more than they can chew.

[The Fool]

I think he was sarcastically referencing AUP, Fool and the usual "selectively compassionate" posters. Unless you feel like including yourself with them, of course... :)
sorry ladies. No rewards of attention handed out to trolls today.

[Tony]

Shhh... don't tell Tony that. Didn't you know Hitler was a PraiseJeezusHallelujah! Baptist?

You want to try to straighten Tony out? He doesn't listen to me much.

I see you've given up coherency.

[BPSCG]

Yeah, all those deaths perpetrated by fundy christians and catholics are a lie. So is the holocaust. Anymore apologies you wish to make?
Shhh... don't tell Tony that. Didn't you know Hitler was a PraiseJeezusHallelujah! Baptist?

You want to try to straighten Tony out? He doesn't listen to me much.
I see you've given up coherency.See what I mean? :boggled:

[Cleon]

Shhh... don't tell Tony that. Didn't you know Hitler was a PraiseJeezusHallelujah! Baptist?

Hitler was a Catholic. I dunno if calling him a "fundamentalist" is really accurate; his insanity was mostly political, not religious. Though that is a pretty fine line right there...

Where Nazi Germany did rule on religion it was promoting the Church. Not Catholicism specifically, but they definitely wanted the Volk to be a good church-going people. The exception to that is the SS, where Heinrich Himmler was creating a sort of cult of neo-Nordic pseudo-paganism.


You want to try to straighten Tony out? He doesn't listen to me much.

Nor should he, generally. ;)

[Skeptic]

Not so fast there, Skeptic. We haven't heard your alibi yet, now have we? ;)

I wonder how many posts in this forum we would have had on this (yawn) massacre of innocents by (yawn) Muslim fundamentalist Arabs if it turned out that, in the most tangential and unintended way, israel was discovered to have been helping the Janjaweed in some way.

[Tony]

They can, but not necessarily "usually." The Holocaust, for example, was not based on a religious disagreement with Jews, but a perceived racial inferiority. The slaughter between the Hutus and Tutsis had very little to do with religion, if anything at all. Ditto for the Armenian genocide.

Hey Cleon, I don't know what you're saying here. But I was asking if ethnicity and religion usually went hand-in-hand.

[Tony]

Hitler was a Catholic.


No he wasn't. He was an Islamic Fundamentalist, didn't you know? Islamic Fundamentalism is the only fundamentalism that brings death. Hitler brought death, therefore, his fundamentalism was of the Islamic flavor. See how that works?

[Mycroft]

Death, the fruit of fundamentalism.

Corrected.

Hmm, my understanding is this is more racial than religious. In sudan, for example, the Arabic Janjaweed are ethnically cleansing the black Sudanese, but they're all predominantly Suni Muslim.

[Zep]

I have many pictures of Hitler wearing tea-towel hats and riding camels.

At least, I THINK it's Hitler...

:crazy:


Seriously...

1) There's a lot more reasons than just Islamic fundamentalism that brings on mass killings.

3) Not all Islamic fundamentalists are mass killers.

Maybe these Arabs in Chad are Islamic fundamentalists, and let's take it as read that they really are doing a bit of kill-thy-neighbour. So does that situation exclude other or additional reasons besides Islamic fundamentalism for these killings? I think not...although I would hardly be surprised if that was the sole reason either.

Doesn't excuse them from being crud, though, whatever their incentives. But I guess everyone will now start throwing the same old monkey faeces once again...

[Mycroft]

I wonder how many posts in this forum we would have had on this (yawn) massacre of innocents by (yawn) Muslim fundamentalist Arabs if it turned out that, in the most tangential and unintended way, israel was discovered to have been helping the Janjaweed in some way.

It kinda makes you miss Demon. He was great at finding weird Israeli connections so that every conflict in the world was somehow instigated by Israel.

[Zep]

My postman is always late. Think I'll blame...ISRAEL!

[David Swidler]

No, Zep, in this case you're right. I tripped him as he was on the way to your house.

[Zep]

For f**k's sake don't tell Skeptic! :)

[a_unique_person]

FWIW, "The Weather Makers" lists global warming as partly to blame for the instability in the region. Growing deserts are driving people out of areas that were traditionally able to sustain them.

[David Swidler]

That's an interesting point. Many a pundit has predicted that "the next major war" in areas x, y, and z would be about water resources (though that hasn't happened in the Middle East just yet despite the predictions).

[Cleon]

Hey Cleon, I don't know what you're saying here. But I was asking if ethnicity and religion usually went hand-in-hand.

Answer: No.

[BPSCG]

FWIW, "The Weather Makers" lists global warming as partly to blame for the instability in the region. Growing deserts are driving people out of areas that were traditionally able to sustain them.Ah, here it comes:

Ethnic war is caused by regional instability;
Regional instability is caused by growing deserts;
Growing deserts are caused by global warming;
And global warming is caused by Republicans (according to Bill Clinton, yesterday).Therefore, the latest atrocities are caused by ChimpBusHitlerCheneyHalliburton.

Q.E.D.

There's a flaw in that logic somewhere, but damned if I can find it...

[AWPrime]

Hmm, my understanding is this is more racial than religious. In sudan, for example, the Arabic Janjaweed are ethnically cleansing the black Sudanese, but they're all predominantly Suni Muslim.

Well many of these arabs believe that they are a 'chosen people', so for them ethnicity and religion go hand in hand.

[David Swidler]

But not all of them, and many of the people involved aren't even Arab.

And EVERY culture believes in its own superiority.

Except mine, of course, which makes mine better than yours.

[Skeptic]

Of course religion has nothing to do with it. If the Janjaweed were, say, baptists, I'm sure they would have behaved just as badly.

[Mycroft]

Well many of these arabs believe that they are a 'chosen people', so for them ethnicity and religion go hand in hand.

No, Islam is open to converts of any ethnicity.

[AWPrime]

No, Islam is open to converts of any ethnicity.

Some are more equal than others.

[Dr Adequate]

Ah, here it comes... Are you ever right?

[ImaginalDisc]

Shhh... don't tell Tony that. Didn't you know Hitler was a PraiseJeezusHallelujah! Baptist?

You want to try to straighten Tony out? He doesn't listen to me much.
BPSCG, Hitler was a Christan. He was an altar boy for pity's sake, and Mein Kampf and his speaches are as littered with references to god as most American presidents'. (ETA: Except Carter of course. Very ironic that the one most genuinely religious president we've had made a point not to make reference to religion in his capacity as president.) Nothing in his private papers indicates a lack of faith.

[Dr Adequate]

Incidentally, needless to say, not a peep out of the "human rights" brigade in this forum. Well, I'm in favor of human rights.

So here is my message to all Chadians reading this thread ...

Oh darn, there aren't any.

Poot.

It all seems so pointless now.

Excuse me, there's some porridge that needs cooling.

[ImaginalDisc]

Incidentally, needless to say, not a peep out of the "human rights" brigade in this forum. No jews to blame here...
You waited two hours to declare a victory? Just two hours? You were Bush's strategic planner for Iraq, weren't you?

[Cleon]

Of course religion has nothing to do with it. If the Janjaweed were, say, baptists, I'm sure they would have behaved just as badly.

You may at some point want to read up on African conflicts rather than just regurgitate what you hear from talk radio and Front Page magazine. African Christian militias are just as brutal as the Muslim ones. A number of priests and nuns were convicted of actively participating in the 1994 massacre of Tutsis in Rwanda.

So yes, it's entirely possible they would have behaved just as badly had they been Baptists.

[Cleon]

You waited two hours to declare a victory? Just two hours? You were Bush's strategic planner for Iraq, weren't you?
:D

[geni]

Incidentally, needless to say, not a peep out of the "human rights" brigade in this forum. No jews to blame here...

Examination of the history of this subject on this forum shows not a peep out the right wing "lets pretend to care since it appears to work for the left" posters

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55326

[Skeptic]

You waited two hours to declare a victory? Just two hours? You were Bush's strategic planner for Iraq, weren't you?

Well, call my cynical, but I thought that one of the human rights brigade people might be remotely interested in this new atrocity to actually start a thread about it in the time it had been going on.

[ImaginalDisc]

Well, call my cynical, but I thought that one of the human rights brigade people might be remotely interested in this new atrocity to actually start a thread about it in the time it had been going on.
Sure, if you give them longer than two hous. Maybe they were busy watching Titanic, or at work, or doing something else, because the world does not revolve around you.

[a_unique_person]

I'm still waiting for you to start a thread about the Lords Resistance Army. How many years do I have to wait?

[Cleon]

I'm still waiting for you to start a thread about the Lords Resistance Army. How many years do I have to wait?

*chirp* *chirp*

Silence.

No Arabs to blame there...

[Tony]

I'm still waiting for you to start a thread about the Lords Resistance Army. How many years do I have to wait?

The what?

[BPSCG]

Uh-oh... you got Tony started...

[Tony]

Uh-oh... you got Tony started...

I know that gets you hot, but please, keep your pants on.

[BPSCG]

I know that gets you hot, but please, keep your pants on.If you insist, oh love of my life, yang to my yin.

[davefoc]

...

Incidentally, needless to say, not a peep out of the "human rights" brigade in this forum. No jews to blame here...

Skeptic,
There are many reasons why people might be more interested in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict than other conflicts in the world. Your statement suggests that the reason you think is most important is that people tend to be anti-semitic and therefore are interested in conflicts where they can blame the Jews.

Not in any particular order, here are some others:
1. The US is highly involved in the conflict because of its massive foreign aid contributions (most of which is military) to Israel since 1967.

2. The US is highly involved in the conflict because of the significant role that the US played in the founding of Israel.

3. There is significant more public discussion and media attention to the Paletine/Israeli conflict than any other conflict in the world.

4. The area has the potential to serve as a trigger point for nuclear war.

5. The west has a significant population of people ethnically tied to the conflict.

6. Fame breeds more fame. People are interested in the conflict because they have been interested in the conflict in the past.

7. There is a large religious tie-in to the area for a lot of people which leads to significant religious media coverage of the area in the west.

All of these reasons seem like they are more significant reasons as to why people on this forum might be more interested in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict than that they are anti-semites.

I don't know what it is like to be a member of a minority population. When the El Pollo Loco givves me a smaller piece of chicken than the other customers seemed to get I just assume that's just the way things go sometimes. But if one is a minority is one always thinking that he got the smaller piece of chicken because the server doesn't like your particular minority? I don't know. In my working career, I never saw anything that seemed like anti-semitism to me, but then maybe it is common and I am just unaware of the signs.

But I see another possibility here. It seems to me that you have so tied Judaism, Jews and Israel together that you have decided that people who don't hold your views about the conflict must be anti-semite. Even, when the views that the people hold are consistent with the views of large numbers of Israeli and American Jews the only explanation you seem to be able to find for their disagreement with you is that they are anti-semites.

It is interesting that you find fault with some people for not being adequately interested in various conflicts around the world that don't involve Jews while at the same time you seem to be most interested in conflicts around the world that involve Arabs. Is that because you are an anti-Arab racist? Should we all run around accusing each other of being one kind of racist or another if we don't post about equally in each of the threads involving human rights abuses?

[Cleon]

I know that gets you hot, but please, keep your pants on.

If you insist, oh love of my life, yang to my yin.

Ugh. Do you two have any idea how much I'm going to have to drink to get that mental image out of my head?

[Tony]

Ugh. Do you two have any idea how much I'm going to have to drink to get that mental image out of my head?

What mental image? You don't know what either of us look like. Or do you?

[Cleon]

Well, there is the camera I have in your bedroom...

[BPSCG]

Well, there is the camera I have in your bedroom...I have one in his bedroom, too.*

And the bathroom.

* Right behind the crucifix...