"Loose Change" creators speak, and it ain't pretty.

[Gravy]

A frightening look at what the creators of "Loose Change" actually say during public interviews. Unfortunately, it looks like Dylan Avery & co. do believe the insane things they say.

Go here to download the 3.2 Mb PDF.
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=123105

To any anti-9/11 CTs who want to host this, please do. I want spread the word far and wide about these guys. And someone please post a link at the LC forum. The Loosers should see their heroes in action.

[60hzxtl]

Gravy!

I've given it a fast look, and plan to give it a full read when I find the top of my desk.

One thing that has confounded me and I think we got lost in the tall weeds -

The word, Freefall.

Simplified: Anything not subjected to friction and not propelled, anything dropped, is in freefall. Let go of your pencil and it falls to the floor in freefall.

(visit Galileo on the tower of Pisa)

the word should not be confused with Terminal Velocity. Again simplified, the maximum rate of speed that things fall in earth's atmosphere.

(The physicists here can provide the table - and there are numerous web sources, I'm just keeping it simple and not talking above my pay grade.)

I have personal experience with both freefall, and terminal velocity. Can't have one without the other, but all freefall is not Terminal Velocity.


I welcome the scientists and engineers to fine tune or correct me.

The losers have misused one more term.

[Hawk one]

Simplified: Anything not subjected to friction and not propelled, anything dropped, is in freefall. Let go of your pencil and it falls to the floor in freefall.
That seems a bit over-simplified even. After all, dropping your pencil here on earth will make it a subject to air friction, thus it doesn't fall in freefall.

Drop it on the moon, on the other hand...

Or am I totally misunderstanding again?

[60hzxtl]

That seems a bit over-simplified even. After all, dropping your pencil here on earth will make it a subject to air friction, thus it doesn't fall in freefall.

Drop it on the moon, on the other hand...

Or am I totally misunderstanding again?

Simplified to make the semantic point. (Unless you are anti-semantic.)

The CT'ers ain't too brite! My point being that they misuse the term, Freefall.

Besides, if you talk to them no one has been to the moon so the less atmosphere, less gravity on the moon is irrelevant!

Freefall and Terminal velocity are not the same thing.

[Ryokan]

All I see is a .pdf file. How do I know it's real?

[Hawk one]

Simplified to make the semantic point. (Unless you are anti-semantic.)

Well, it's not a good idea to simplify things too much around here, is it? :p

The CT'ers ain't too brite! My point being that they misuse the term, Freefall.

Besides, if you talk to them no one has been to the moon so the less atmosphere, less gravity on the moon is irrelevant!
Touché.

Of course, the non-atmosphere situation inside their skulls should provide plenty of opportunity to test out Galileo's work, eh? ;)

[asmodean]

To any anti-9/11 CTs who want to host this, please do. I want spread the word far and wide about these guys. And someone please post a link at the LC forum. The Loosers should see their heroes in action.

Have stored a copy at:

http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~asmodean/ct/Loose_Change_Creators_Speak.pdf

[MarkyX]

All I see is a .pdf file. How do I know it's real?

Google the internet radio shows. They usually hold an archive on their site.

[kookbreaker]

Ugh. I got to page 25 and needed to take a shower.

[60hzxtl]

In pdf reader, go to VIEW, go to READ ALOUD.


Kinda like Steven Hawking reads Gravy!

Suddenly it's an audio book.

[Grundar]

About the same for me, 35 pages and then i needed a break. Good work so far Gravy . I shudder thinking of having to transcribe those interviews.

/Hans

[Gravy]

In pdf reader, go to VIEW, go to READ ALOUD.

Kinda like Steven Hawking reads Gravy!

Suddenly it's an audio book.
You're a sick man, 60hz. But if I were to record an audiobook of this material, most of it would consist of me cursing and the sound of things smashing against the wall.

Thanks, asmodean. I sent a copy to Mike of 911myths.com, and, of course, to the unholy trio who inspired all this.

[Class]

Has this been posted on the LC forum yet?

[Class]

Been reading through it and just got up to page 53, only to discover that page 53 is blank! The only text on it is the '53' at the bottom of the page.

[RandFan]

All I see is a .pdf file. How do I know it's real? You click on it. If it pops up it is real. ;)

I know what you mean. I've tested it, it's fine.

[RandFan]

Is this your work Gravy?

[Gravy]

Been reading through it and just got up to page 53, only to discover that page 53 is blank! The only text on it is the '53' at the bottom of the page.
The quotes on page 53 were so vile that I could only print them using "clear" font color.

No, looks like it was a PDF translation error. There's notihng missing, just a blank page added. You can use it to draw a picture of your favorite Looser.

I haven't checked to see if it's on the LC site. I'll go there now.

[asmodean]

Thanks, asmodean. I sent a copy to Mike of 911myths.com, and, of course, to the unholy trio who inspired all this.

You're more than welcome. The more people hosting/storing this, the less the chance it gets lost anywhere. And I think it's important that things like this gets out and is kept available.

[RandFan]

My hats off to you Gravy. Excellent work. Thank you.

[RandFan]

Page 16

And Bernard Sr. was like 'Hey, don't be afraid to die, because everybody's gonna some day," and his son got on flight 77 and we know what happened to that. Oh, actually, we DON'T know what happened to flight 77, but we do know what happened to Bernard. And Bernard Brown Sr., according to his wife, took an UNUSUAL day off from work to go play golf. Like, this is a man who never took a single day off of work, and after telling his son not to be afraid to die, he takes a day off work to go play GOLF, and had he not been on the golf course, he would have been killed.

Host: Has anybody tried to question him?

Avery: "Um, me and Phil (Jayhan, “LC’s” original producer) were actually considering tracking him down and getting him on the phone, to talk to him about 9/11 and see if anything slips. But I think he was either deeply involved in it, and talking to him on the phone might not be such a hot idea, or talking to him about sending his son to die might be a bad idea. Since that article was published...by MSNBC, I believe nobody's actually tried to contact him, and we actually haven't heard from him since. :mad: This is disgusting. They are accusing a man who lost his son of sending that son to die while he went to play golf.

Avery, I have a question, have they no shame sir?

[steve s]

About the same for me, 35 pages and then i needed a break.


35 pages?! I couldn't get past the first page. All that nonsense about plastic butter knives. These idiots obviously haven't seen those plastic hunting knives you can find advertised in some magazines. You could easily slaughter a deer with one of those.

Steve S.

[Yahzi]

Can I ask a question?

Why is Avery still alive?

If the government is willing to fake a terrorist attack and kill thousands to advance their goals, why wouldn't they be willing to fake a car accident and kill one or two noisy investigators?

If what Avery says is true, he should be dead.

[Yahzi]

Single best line in the whole document (in true CT fashion I didn't bother reading the entire document before reaching this decision :D ):

From the “Pot, meet Kettle” department: Avery loses confidence in the original producer of "Loose Change," who got him mixed up in the pod business.
About Phil Jayhan: He said he found the missile. He said that Deb (Simon) found the bomb on the wing. THERE'S NO BOMB ON THE WING! It's just Phil! It's Phil looking at videos and seeing what he sees and you can't make him think anything else. I've tried talking to him about that "laser" footage. I mean, Phil, it's a piece of goddam paper. I've got the raw footage from Cameraplanet. I'm tell-ing you it's a piece of paper. But he's like, 'No, it's a laser and I can prove it.' " (2)

Irony is the supreme ruler of our age, and it rules with an iron fist. :D

[The_Fire]

35 pages?! I couldn't get past the first page. All that nonsense about plastic butter knives. These idiots obviously haven't seen those plastic hunting knives you can find advertised in some magazines. You could easily slaughter a deer with one of those.

Steve S.

Or the ones they manufacture from toothbrushes in prisons.....

[Johnny Pixels]

Can I ask a question?

Why is Avery still alive?

If the government is willing to fake a terrorist attack and kill thousands to advance their goals, why wouldn't they be willing to fake a car accident and kill one or two noisy investigators?

If what Avery says is true, he should be dead
I asked on the LC forum why the site was still up and hadn't been brought down by a government that could demolish buildings in the middle of downtown Manhatten, and apparently it was because it would bring the spotlight onto the "truth" movement, and then the government would have some questions to answer.

I think they've got a very high opinion of themselves.

[Yahzi]

apparently it was because it would bring the spotlight onto the "truth" movement, and then the government would have some questions to answer.
But... but... but their entire goal is to bring the spotlight onto the truth movement, and pose questions for the government to answer.

They shill relentlessly for public attention, and glow about every scrap they get. Not once do they say, "shh, keep our names out of this, we don't want to be killed."

You are correct - they have an extremely high opinion of themselves. This whole thing would be funny if a) they were 12 years old, and b) people with radio shows did not take them seriously.

[Mr. Scott]

A frightening look at what the creators of "Loose Change" actually say during public interviews. Unfortunately, it looks like Dylan Avery & co. do believe the insane things they say.

Very well done. Thanks!

I mean...

One thing that affected me was how often in the transcripts of Avery's statemets he says "I mean" or "and, I mean." He sometimes says it every 10 words or so. Trying to read those were, for me, like being hit by a cattle prod, I mean, each time Avery, I mean, said "I mean." (Bermas also does this)

Aside from reminding me that they think and speak like goofy teenagers, I wondered what was going on in one's mind each time one says it. My best guess is that he uses the phrase when he realizes he's not getting his point across, I mean, when he realizes he's failing to articulate his thoughts.

They remind me of "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" which I think characterizes their antics perfectly. They are kids intellectually bungee jumping, and are really only in it to satisfy their addiction to excitement and conquest.

[Pak43]

IMHO I think that Mr Avery is hooked on the publicity train and can't get off. He's got a bunch of journo's asking him his thoughts and opinions which he absolutely gets his rocks off on. In order to keep this happening he has to generate crazier and more sensational statements to keep their interest because their trying to move the story on and he has nothing else. A bit like a small child vying for their parents attention when the phone rings. I've seen this before and last time it ended with the subject appearing on a chat show dressed in a tracksuit proclaiming themself as the son of god....not pretty, but pretty funny... :)

[Shrinker]

I saw the LC3 preview thingy a while ago. I also got the impression Avery actually believes it. The reason? He seems to have forgotten what made LC2 popular. He's now so immersed in the stuff he thinks everyone believes it, and is now just preaching to his choir. To open with a tirade against the disinformation agents within the troof movement was about the dumbest thing he could do. Why would anybody new to 9/11 CTs give a damn about stuff like that?

ETA: forgot to say, well done again Gravy!

[Gravy]

Very well done. Thanks!

I mean...

One thing that affected me was how often in the transcripts of Avery's statemets he says "I mean" or "and, I mean."
Oh, you should see all the "I means" I left out! Sometimes there were so many that they interfered too much with the –ahem – meaning of what he was saying.

[sat556]

Brillaint work again Gravy. Just read the whole thing. How you manage to keep the personal comments to such a minimum is beyond me. I think if I did one it'd be full of snappy and sarcastic comment.

[Meffy]

No, looks like it was a PDF translation error. There's notihng missing, just a blank page added.
Caption it "Photo of Invisicrete sample." :-S

[joseph k.]

Irony is the supreme ruler of our age, and it rules with an iron fist. :D

The Irony Age...I like that.

How you manage to keep the personal comments to such a minimum is beyond me. I think if I did one it'd be full of snappy and sarcastic comment.
I think he got tired of that being the "debunking" focal point, but I felt the same way. If I created this document it surely would be much more blue. I commend Gravy for his patience and apparent immunity to levels of inanity previously unreached. I will share this in a variety of places, thanks [again] for your efforts, sir.

[HidariMak]

I admit that time prevents me from reading all of the discussions here, so this may have already been brought up by someone else, but what's separating these Loosers from the Al-Queda anyways? (Aside from the fact that the Al-Queda aren't currently denying the 9/11 terrorist attack, that is?)

I mean, Dylan Avery and his cohorts show a strong sense of disrespect to those who were killed in that attack, to the families of the victims, and to the intelligence of those in the free world in general. Just like the Al-Queda.

They claim that they are fighting against the US government, and that the public shouldn't believe the government, nor anyone in the media since they only propagate the lies of the government. Just like the Al-Queda.

They love taking statements out of context, and sticking with those statements long after everyone has been informed of the true meaning, like errornous reports of which jet was just used as a missle to strike the WTC buildings. Or the Al-Queda members who twist the Muslim belief that you get blessed only when murdering armed enemies on the battlefield, to include random innocent bystanders.

I'd love to see the war draft introduced again, for all of 5 seconds or so, just long enough to get these guys shipped overseas to help the battle. Perhaps then they'll see the hate which caused those attacks, head on. Or at the very least, they'd be better as cannon fodder than any of the soldiers currently serving there.

Also Gravy, thanks for highlighting again the intellect behind the Loose Change videos. Your stomach is much stronger than mine is.

[SRW]

I cannot believe I read the whole thing. I took the better part of the afternoon because I had to go outside and kill things to keep sane,(weeds and bugs in the garden).

Great job and you have my sympathy for having to sift through all that B.S. I have been talking to a bunch of loonies about these things and your info is invaluable to debunking their questions. Which is weird; they never make statements only ask questions.

[Gravy]

(Aside from the fact that the Al-Quida aren't currently denying the 9/11 terrorist attack, that is?)
Bwah!

Bwah said, I do think it's going too far to lump the Loosers in with al Qaeda. That's like them saying that Bush is like Hitler. While they are trying to convince people that al Qaeda either isn't a threat or is directly controlled by the U,S., it's still the obligation of every individual to question those claims. No one is being forced to watch "Loose Change," although some of the radio hosts think it should be mandatory viewing. And I get the feeling they really mean "mandatory."

The strange thing is, Korey Rowe did serve in the Army in Afghanistan and Iraq. He chose a bad time to enlist: just before 9/11, so he may feel bitter about that.

I did receive a one-line email reply from Avery today:
"To put it gently, you are simply a waste of my time."

[Stellafane]

Page 16


And Bernard Sr. was like 'Hey, don't be afraid to die, because everybody's gonna some day," and his son got on flight 77 and we know what happened to that. Oh, actually, we DON'T know what happened to flight 77, but we do know what happened to Bernard. And Bernard Brown Sr., according to his wife, took an UNUSUAL day off from work to go play golf. Like, this is a man who never took a single day off of work, and after telling his son not to be afraid to die, he takes a day off work to go play GOLF, and had he not been on the golf course, he would have been killed.

Host: Has anybody tried to question him?

Avery: "Um, me and Phil (Jayhan, “LC’s” original producer) were actually considering tracking him down and getting him on the phone, to talk to him about 9/11 and see if anything slips. But I think he was either deeply involved in it, and talking to him on the phone might not be such a hot idea, or talking to him about sending his son to die might be a bad idea. Since that article was published...by MSNBC, I believe nobody's actually tried to contact him, and we actually haven't heard from him since.


I started writing a response to this, and realized I simply can't do it, other than to say Dylan Avery is despicable scum, and so is anyone else who accepts this sort of vile crap he spews. The other things I'm thinking probably are better left unarticulated.

I have nothing but the highest respect for those of you who respond to these maggots and ensure this swill does not go unchallenged. I simply do not have the patience, maturity, and self-control necessary to do it.

[Gravy]

Caption it "Photo of Invisicrete sample." :-S
Remember, people who live in Invisicrete houses shouldn't throw cruise missiles.

[Meffy]

You'd think so, yes. Go figure.

I'll add my thanks for your having gone to all this trouble, but I've not downloaded and read this. Not yet, might do so in the future. But: well done.

[RandFan]

I started writing a response to this, and realized I simply can't do it, other than to say Dylan Avery is despicable scum, and so is anyone else who accepts this sort of vile crap he spews. The other things I'm thinking probably are better left unarticulated.

I have nothing but the highest respect for those of you who respond to these maggots and ensure this swill does not go unchallenged. I simply do not have the patience, maturity, and self-control necessary to do it. It's unbelievable. I can't begin to express how disgusted I am with this turd. How do you accuse a man of murdering his child without any evidence?

I hope that the man they accuse is simply left alone. He doesn't need to dignify Avery's sick and twisted accusations. He didn't ask for this. His son is dead for Ed's sake.

[HidariMak]

Bwah!

Bwah said, I do think it's going too far to lump the Loosers in with al Qaeda. That's like them saying that Bush is like Hitler. While they are trying to convince people that al Qaeda either isn't a threat or is directly controlled by the U,S., it's still the obligation of every individual to question those claims. No one is being forced to watch "Loose Change," although some of the radio hosts think it should be mandatory viewing. And I get the feeling they really mean "mandatory."

My reply was tongue in cheek, actually. It was the most insulting thing I could think of calling that group, without violating rule 8.

I give them the same respect that I'd give to Holocaust deniers and to the Ku Klux Klan, which is none. It's just unfortunate that these poster children for mental illness have a talent at getting the gullible so firmly on their side.

[XXX]

BTW guys, as sick as Dylan Avery is with those lines about Bernard Brown and his 11 year old son, he's not the only 9/11 conspiracy nut to make that claim!

Killtown has a similar take on this. Here's a link from his 9/11 conspiracy site.

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight77/passengers.html

it's about a 1/4th way down on the page...(just search for bernard). Here's an exerpt...

"Is it just the strangest of strange coincidences that Bernard Jr.'s dad gave a lecture to him about death and dying the morning of his plane trip, took a "rare day off" that day from his office at the Pentagon, and that his son's hijacked flight "crashed" in the very spot that his office was in?"

[Class]

Killtown is my favorite Looser. He believes that no planes hit the Twin Towers and that all footage of the plane hitting tower two were "CGI'd" (boy was that a thread). He then creates a thread asking if an obviously fake video of the top floor of WTC 2 on fire was real and questioned why it has never been played by the mainstream media.

If you are ever feeling down, read some of his posts. I guarantee they will have you rolling on the floor in laughter.

[MarkyX]

Killtown is my favorite Looser. He believes that no planes hit the Twin Towers and that all footage of the plane hitting tower two were "CGI'd" (boy was that a thread). He then creates a thread asking if an obviously fake video of the top floor of WTC 2 on fire was real and questioned why it has never been played by the mainstream media.

If you are ever feeling down, read some of his posts. I guarantee they will have you rolling on the floor in laughter.

It makes me wish there was a time machine so I can go back and introduce the parents of this Loosers (and Dylan) condoms. Or somehow convience their dads to be gay.

[XXX]

Even better, if you scroll down to the bottom of that sick page that I linked to you'll find that he has listed 6 pictures with the question "What do all these teachers and students have in common who were embarking on the National Geographic funded educational trip?" And I'm assuming that we're supposed to realize that they are all black.

It's not enough to accuse George Bush and others of the mass murder of over 3,000 people just to start a war in another country and kill even more people. They have to be racist too!

[orphia nay]

Gravy, I made it to the 7th page before I could feel my heart beating so hard that I felt I had to stop reading.

(And you did it without loud music and videos of explosions, too. ;))

Awesome stuff and your writing was powerful and of a high standard. I will resume reading soon, but will probably do it in short periods.

[MikeW]

I added the PDF to 911myths.com this morning. It's going to provoke a real storm, I think... I can see the defenders brushing off the "but they're young and naive" excuses already. Not sure that will wash in the real world, though.

[Johnny Pixels]

I did receive a one-line email reply from Avery today:
"To put it gently, you are simply a waste of my time."

I bet he says the same thing to his conscience every morning.

[Reeco]

Getting back to the knife thing, which I found incredible to read by the way - why do they think a knife's handle material has any impact on it's lethality? It's as ridiculous as saying and AR-15 isn't dangerous because it's stock is plastic.

I still can't figure out if Avery is manipulative and intelligent, or deluded and stupid. I suppose this will become clearer when we find out how much he's earned from all this LC nonsense.

Actually, he may have just fluked it - we still wouldn't know.

[60hzxtl]

.

I still can't figure out if Avery is manipulative and intelligent, or deluded and stupid. I suppose this will become clearer when we find out how much he's earned from all this LC nonsense.

.


My take? I go for manipulative, and just smart enough to be a con man. He's workin' on his image now if you watch him.

But the most important thing, and the thing to point out to the newbee's

Avery thinks YOU are stupid.

[Johnny Pixels]

I recall a man being held hostage by a kidnapper with a ball point pen. I think this is a different story, but the point's the same http://www.courttv.com/archive/national/2000/1010/kimes_ctv.html

How would Dylan react if someone came up to him with a plastic handled knife and threatened him? Would he really jump him and risk getting his face cut off?

[MarkyX]

I recall a man being held hostage by a kidnapper with a ball point pen. I think this is a different story, but the point's the same http://www.courttv.com/archive/national/2000/1010/kimes_ctv.html

How would Dylan react if someone came up to him with a plastic handled knife and threatened him? Would he really jump him and risk getting his face cut off?

We need to do that. These people laugh at boxcutters. I suggest as a counter protest, for everyone to bring a box cutter and chase them down.

Being sadistic is fun :p

[Johnny Pixels]

We need to do that. These people laugh at boxcutters. I suggest as a counter protest, for everyone to bring a box cutter and chase them down.

Being sadistic is fun :p

That'd make a good TV interview.

Interviewer: So Dylan, you claim box cutters aren't dangerous. We'd thought we'd put that theory to the test (pulls out boxcutter, lunges at Dylan)
Dylan: :yikes:

[MarkyX]

I did receive a one-line email reply from Avery today:
"To put it gently, you are simply a waste of my time."


Do a "Dylan and Me" document!

[Aussie Thinker]

You know it isn't Avery who is to blame.

It shows there is something VERY wrong with this society if his COMPLETELY inane theories get an airing let alone be ACCEPTABLE to some people.

Do we just have too many people these days who are TOO stupid or TOO lazy to think for themselves ?

It seem almost IMPOSSIBLE for any rational person to accept these views so we cannot fathom why some people do....

We must thank Gravy for his comprehensive debunking... It is VERY sad that it is required.. but happy that it is so eloquently and comprehensive done.

I honestly think if I was king of the world I would use the LC theory as a test for anyone before they got a responsible job ! If they got past even the inane reason for the theory it would be enough to brand them.. Janitor.. toilet cleaner.. etc !.. Sorry I am probably disparaging janitors !

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

...
Do we just have too many people these days who are TOO stupid or TOO lazy to think for themselves ?
...

Yes.

[Axiom_Blade]

Unfortunately, it's been noted before that a lot of otherwise intelligent people DO believe this stuff. (Because they really, really, really hate Bush, they like "secret knowledge", just plain bored, all their friends believe and they just never thought to question it, simply don't think critically, etc. etc.)

As far as Dylan goes, I wonder if he started out knowing it was all fabricated, but has now begun to believe his own BS. Kinda like what happened to L. Ron Hubbard.

[Cylinder]

It seems that one of Avery's hypotheses is fairly embarrassingly (IMHO) recycled. On page 35 of the PDF cited above (http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~asmodean/ct/Loose_Change_Creators_Speak.pdf), Avery poses the following thought:

Host: [About the gold stored below the WTC] A hundred and something billion, admittedly there, I mean, gold doesn't just disappear. And then there's just no discussion about it now. You ask the media, and they go, 'We're not gonna talk about those Federal Reserve vaults. Dylan?"

Avery: Yeah, we actually cover that in the conclusion to the second edition, we go over the gold that was missing and the empty dump trucks, and the convoy of cars that was found under World Trade Center four. No bodies recovered, which means that basically, these people got out of their trucks and started running. I mean, how did they know the south tower was gonna collapse? (12)

This immediately threw up a red flag for me. Where have I heard of this plot device before???

The answer - Die Hard with a Vengeance (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112864/maindetails).

[Stellafane]

...I did receive a one-line email reply from Avery today:
"To put it gently, you are simply a waste of my time."

Bravo! If there's anyone whose time I wish were completely wasted (thus preventing him from doing anything else with it, like producing more slime) it's Dylan Avery.

[dubfan]

In pdf reader, go to VIEW, go to READ ALOUD.


Kinda like Steven Hawking reads Gravy!

Suddenly it's an audio book.

OMFG!! This is the ONLY way to listen to the Loosers.

I loved this bit right on the first page:

Avery: Ha Ha Ha Ha! Have you seen how small those things [box cutters] are? Like, if I was on a flight, with, you know, at least 50 other people – because that's the smallest number I think was on 9/11* – if I was in the cabin, with 50 other people, and five people – I don't care if they're Muslim or not – stand up with box cutters and say they're gonna hijack the plane, I'm gonna laugh in their face!

Dylan sounds like the villain in the All Your Base Are Belong To Us video.

Gravy: you rock. Thanks for your efforts in taking the time to do these transcripts and get the rebuttals and facts down on paper. It's one thing to do these ad hoc message board debates, but it's another thing to get the information down in fixed form so the shelf life will be longer, and so others can have access to your knowledge as a reference. Personally, I'm glad to see Dylan being taken to task for his comments at the LGF blog (that's a pet peeve of mine). I like what you did to relate his attempts to wiggle off the hook there to how he's tried to make the case that the 9/11 hijackers are still alive.

The only thing I noticed....I'm not sure we know (do we?) exactly what sort of agreement that the Naudets worked out with LTW. The PDF implies that they had to edit out the Naudets' footage, but IIRC, the version that they're pushing today still has the Naudet footage intact.

[chipmunk stew]

In pdf reader, go to VIEW, go to READ ALOUD.


Kinda like Steven Hawking reads Gravy!

Suddenly it's an audio book.HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! This is hil-AR-ious!!!!!!
:dl:

[Legalduck]

Host: [About the gold stored below the WTC] A hundred and something billion, admittedly there, I mean, gold doesn't just disappear. And then there's just no discussion about it now. You ask the media, and they go, 'We're not gonna talk about those Federal Reserve vaults. Dylan?"

Avery: Yeah, we actually cover that in the conclusion to the second edition, we go over the gold that was missing and the empty dump trucks, and the convoy of cars that was found under World Trade Center four. No bodies recovered, which means that basically, these people got out of their trucks and started running. I mean, how did they know the south tower was gonna collapse? (12)
bolding mine

Avery's gone from illogical right to stupid with this one. He seems to imply that a person would have only fled the WTC is if they had foreknowledge of its collapse (not just its damage). I don't know about the rest of you, but if I'm in a building (or even near one)that is hit by a plane I will leave that area. I will not hang around and debate whether or not it is going to collapse.

If I remember correctly, there were many new videos of people fleeing the WTC prior to collapse. Is Avery suggesting that all these running civilians had knowledge as well of the WTC collapse?

EDIT: for missing words

[Legalduck]

Avery: Ha Ha Ha Ha! Have you seen how small those things [box cutters] are? Like, if I was on a flight, with, you know, at least 50 other people – because that's the smallest number I think was on 9/11* – if I was in the cabin, with 50 other people, and five people – I don't care if they're Muslim or not – stand up with box cutters and say they're gonna hijack the plane, I'm gonna laugh in their face!

I think Mr. Avery should speak any guard who has ever worked in any prison in the United States for more than a week. Humans (being rather innovative) can a deadly weapon out of anything. Sharpened toothbrush handles, flatware, pieces of furniture. All can be deadly and all are smaller than a box cutter. The size of the blade is irrelevant (I was going to say "pointless":p ). Just about anything can be a deadly weapon. Box cutters were a perfect choice. Small, sharp, easily acquired, not suspicious in-and-of themselves, allowed on the plane(at the time), and fairly damn intimidating when waved in your face.

[chipmunk stew]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! This is hil-AR-ious!!!!!!
:dl:Actually, it makes it more palatable, somehow.

[Spindrift]

I stopped at about page 50 as it was making me physically ill.

I don't think that Avery started out fully believing all the tripe he is now regurgitating. I can see them initially having doubts about 9/11 and deciding it would be cool to make a little film about it. They never thought that it would be as widespread as it has become. But that popularity has affected them the same way that movie stars get affected by their own publicity. Very quickly they start believing it. Now they can't NOT believe it because their "15 minutes" would be over.

They may not have started off believing everything, but now they are willing to believe everything and anything that supports them. As the pandering to the Holocaust deniers shows, they're willing to suck up to anyone in order to keep their 15 minutes going.

Celebrity is a very addictive drug even if it's mostly notoriety. They've got a tiger by the tail and they can't let go.

[Class]

It seems that one of Avery's hypotheses is fairly embarrassingly (IMHO) recycled. On page 35 of *link* Avery poses the following thought:



This immediately threw up a red flag for me. Where have I heard of this plot device before???

The answer -
Believe it or not, a Looser actually made a thread about the possibility of the Bush administration stealing the idea for 9/11 from Die Hard with a Vengeance.

His reasoning? Dick Cheney's uncredited cameo in the film. :boggled:

[PopeTom]

I think Mr. Avery should speak any guard who has ever worked in any prison in the United States for more than a week. Humans (being rather innovative) can a deadly weapon out of anything. Sharpened toothbrush handles, flatware, pieces of furniture. All can be deadly and all are smaller than a box cutter. The size of the blade is irrelevant (I was going to say "pointless":p ). Just about anything can be a deadly weapon. Box cutters were a perfect choice. Small, sharp, easily acquired, not suspicious in-and-of themselves, allowed on the plane(at the time), and fairly damn intimidating when waved in your face.

Or just sit Mr. Avery down to watch Episode 44 of Mythbusters.

From their website:


Episode 44: Paper Crossbow
Adam and Jamie unleash a deadly myth from a supermax prison, attempting to make a deadly weapon out of nothing more dangerous than newspaper and underwear. While they are being tested to their wits' end, Grant, Kari and Tory unscrew the cap on some more vodka myths, the latest in an occasional series of tall tales about the popular Russian tipple.
premiere: Jan. 11, 2006

[brodski]

Or just sit Mr. Avery down to watch Episode 44 of Mythbusters.

From their website:
I was going to point out that a popular weapon used by some football "hooligans" in the UK is (was) a tightly rolled newspaper, if you're accurate enough with one of those you can cause a lot of pain, and some significant damage (especially to the throat) and it is a very easy weapon to hide and dispose of.
Pretty effective weapons can be made from practically anything.

[Gravy]

I fixed some errors with my doc. (thanks to those of you who pointed them out). A better link to it is here: http://911myths.com/LooseChangeCreatorsSpeak.pdf

[Gravy]

BTW guys, as sick as Dylan Avery is with those lines about Bernard Brown and his 11 year old son, he's not the only 9/11 conspiracy nut to make that claim!
True. AFAIK, none of his claims are original.

[Gravy]

Gravy: you rock.
Thanks, but actually I roll.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/87904496f3d084a08.jpg

The only thing I noticed....I'm not sure we know (do we?) exactly what sort of agreement that the Naudets worked out with LTW. The PDF implies that they had to edit out the Naudets' footage, but IIRC, the version that they're pushing today still has the Naudet footage intact.
I saw a post on LC the other day in which Avery said they didn't have to cut any Naudet footage, which makes me believe they worked out a payment. But now I can't even find that thread, so who knows?

[senorpogo]

I think Mr. Avery should speak any guard who has ever worked in any prison in the United States for more than a week. Humans (being rather innovative) can a deadly weapon out of anything. Sharpened toothbrush handles, flatware, pieces of furniture. All can be deadly and all are smaller than a box cutter. The size of the blade is irrelevant (I was going to say "pointless":p ). Just about anything can be a deadly weapon. Box cutters were a perfect choice. Small, sharp, easily acquired, not suspicious in-and-of themselves, allowed on the plane(at the time), and fairly damn intimidating when waved in your face.

Or he could watch a few episodes of Oz.

[brodski]

Or he could watch a few episodes of Oz. trouble is, if you told Avery to watch Oz to understand how weapons can be made from anything, LC3 would contain long passages proving that the WTC was actually deliberately dropped by a cyclone onto the Wicked Witch of the East.

[Hellbound]

It Was The Tin Man!!!!!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

It Was The Tin Man!!!!!

Should that be the Scarecrow (Straw Man)?

[brodski]

It Was The Tin Man!!!!! the "yellow brick road" was paved from the gold stolen from the WTC and
the whole thing as masterminded by the shadowy "man behind the curtain"

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

the "yellow brick road" was paved from the gold stolen from the WTC and
the whole thing as masterminded by the shadowy "man behind the curtain"

Too bad the Cowardly Lion was just a patsy, and Dorothy was a shill.

[sat556]

Which page is that appaling line "the people are really secondary" on?

[dubfan]

Which page is that appaling line "the people are really secondary" on?

IIRC, Dylan spoke that line at a screening in California somewhere, and it was captured on video. I believe the link to the video is in the first LC thread.

[gumboot]

Hi everyone,

I'm brand new here... first lil message. :) I arrived here finding the "Loose Change" thread and read all 100+ pages of it... YIKES!

I've also now read this PDF full of their quotes. First off, an excellent piece of research. Perhaps the makers of LC can take a lesson from it in how to *actually* present facts.

I found it incredibly disturbing, starting from page one. These people, apparantly "Dedicated to the lives lost on 9/11" were LAUGHING that people were hijacked by men with knives. Claiming they'd just laugh at terrorists who did this.

Essentially they're labelling all hijacking victims as cowards.

Now, I've actually been in a hijacking exercise. I *knew* it was an exercise. I *knew* the hijackers were really SAS instructors and that within an hour or so the New Zealand SAS would come busting through the doors to save us. :) I *knew* the plane was on the ground and not going anywhere.

And yet, when the *terrorist* came busting through the plane screaming at people for a couple of minutes I was genuinely scared.

It makes me sick that these people so openly demonstrate such ignorance of the things they are talking about. I also noticed their choice of interviewer's is obviously very narrow. Only one or two made any effort to querry their claims, and most of them actually did the majority of claim-making in the discussions - the interviewee's generally just agreed with them!

After seeing LC I thought *this is just a bunch of paranoid silly people*. Seeing the growth of popularity, and the attitude and inconsistancy of the makers, I'm stunned to disbelief.

I agree with some others that these guys really don't have a clue what they're doing. They initially wanted to make a fictional film (I think this is a significant admission on their part) and one, or some, of them started to believe it based on a few details, and now they've been sucked into their own hype - so many people believe their video so it MUST be true, right?

I have a feeling they're really too immature to realise the significance of some of their claims. I mean, trashing the government is one thing, saying they committed high treason and mass murder is quite another. They don't appreciate the implications of their claims on the wider community either - such as the complacency that millions of other American citizens would have to offer for their notions to work.

I just hope they manage to include some more outlandish claims in LC3 (like the crazy "gold heist" claim in LC2) so that more people realise how inconsistant and odd their "evidence" is. If I lived in the US, I'd honestly be really worried about what believers of this tripe might actually do...

-Andrew

[dubfan]

Looks like it might be time to add the phrase "assault charges" (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6602) to the Loosers' vocabulary (see thread title/subtitle).

[hellaeon]

hey its easy to abuse and talk tough from a keyboard

[hellaeon]

Its actually freaky to peer into the minds of such paranoia and idiocy. Its such a caveman kind of thought. Im reminded in my mind of those horrible clashes you see in more poverty stricken countries where mobs gang up and stone to death someone who is accused of something but more then likely completely innocent.

* shakes head *

[joseph k.]

I saw a post on LC the other day in which Avery said they didn't have to cut any Naudet footage, which makes me believe they worked out a payment. But now I can't even find that thread, so who knows?
Weren't the numbers something like $150,000 for each of the 14 infringements? Given the lawyer harassment and that the Naudets presumably don't agree with LC's message, it would be surprising they would settle for less. After hearing of that post on LCforum, I am definitely curious about the current state of affairs. I am also unclear on how so many people across the web can continue to post the offending video, and whether DylanCo LLC can be held responsible since it was their original upload that started the whole thing.

[MagicFan]

To any anti-9/11 CTs who want to host this, please do. I want spread the word far and wide about these guys. And someone please post a link at the LC forum. The Loosers should see their heroes in action.

The problem is, you're expecting people to read a long text filke, while the conspiracy theorists have a slickly-produced, widely-distributed video to promote their side of the "debate." This is the television age we're living in, after all. The conspiracy theorists have the upper hand, as far as the propaganda war goes.

[Gravy]

Looks like it might be time to add the phrase "assault charges" (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6602) to the Loosers' vocabulary (see thread title/subtitle).
I will be at Ground Zero on 9/11, and I'll be quite easy to find, since I'm not going to leave Avery's side. He wants the media's attention? Anyone who interviews him will also receive the biographical information I've gathered on him. I'll need people to sltick with Rowe and Bermas.

I propose that this animosity be resolved through a wrestling match between me and jessicajohnstone.

[DavidJames]

Looks like it might be time to add the phrase "assault charges" (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6602) to the Loosers' vocabulary (see thread title/subtitle).I posted a response on that thead questioning their approach. Also questioned DJ why he ran away and Jessica why she never showed up.

[Gravy]

The problem is, you're expecting people to read a long text filke, while the conspiracy theorists have a slickly-produced, widely-distributed video to promote their side of the "debate." This is the television age we're living in, after all. The conspiracy theorists have the upper hand, as far as the propaganda war goes.
I don't see that as a problem. They're in a sprint now. I'm prepared for a marathon. The documents I've put out are reference material. If one of the head Loosers says (as they do), "We never said that," anyone can prove them wrong. The "LC Viewer Guide" has been downloaded thousands of times, and I get emails from around the world thanking me, so that's encouraging.

[XXX]

Since when is posting someone's own quotes from public interviews a "personal attack"?!

Even as bad as the Loose Change followers are, I find it hard to believe that not one of them is in any way disturbed about any of the quotes from Avery. Maybe a person or two over there might actually speak up about one of these many quotes (and then get banned of course).

[Aussie Thinker]

That pathetic opening conversation by the “loosers” required some further discussion.

I think it is important to note that at the time of the hijacking, hijackers were not known to deliberately crash planes.

The stupid loosers speak with hind sight.. of course you would take on people with box cutters if you knew they were going to kill you.. the people of flight 57 DID that as soon as they knew what was going on.

The pervading view prior to 911 was that hijacking was a nuisance.. not something worth tackling a group of armed men over.

Besides I don’t think the terrorists got on the PA and said.. ha ha we’ve only got box cutters… for all the passengers knew they were armed to the teeth !

[dubfan]

Besides I don’t think the terrorists got on the PA and said.. ha ha we’ve only got box cutters… for all the passengers knew they were armed to the teeth !

That's right. According to phone calls from the passengers, the hijackers had phony "bombs" which they threatened to detonate if the passengers got out of line. The passengers on 93 gambled that the bombs were phony (which they were).

[XXX]

Don't forget, they said they had a bomb too. And if everyone didn't sit tight and not struggle, they'd set it off. The first passengers probably thought that the plane would eventually land somewhere and they'd be in a hostage situation. We've seen those before.

[Gravy]

Besides I don’t think the terrorists got on the PA and said.. ha ha we’ve only got box cutters… for all the passengers knew they were armed to the teeth !
You're right. They said over the intercom, "We have a bomb." And on at least one flight (93, not 57), a hijacker had something strapped to him that he showed and said was a bomb. There was also a very real survival-type knife found in the wreckage of flight 93.

[gumboot]

Don't forget, they said they had a bomb too. And if everyone didn't sit tight and not struggle, they'd set it off. The first passengers probably thought that the plane would eventually land somewhere and they'd be in a hostage situation. We've seen those before.

Important points, all.

According to the transcript of the United 93 flight recorder, the first announcement was one of the hijackers over the intercom saying they had taken over the plane, there was a bomb on board, and they were going to an airport.

The golden rule of aircraft hijackings pre 9/11 was to do what the hijackers said and GET THE PLANE ON THE GROUND. This has always been priority one. Air stewards have always been trained to co-operate, and to make sure the passengers co-operate as well.

A primary reasons for allowing the cabin door to be unlocked (enabling a hijacking in the first place) is that terrorists may hurt passengers if the pilots resist in any way.

These days an idea shared by many pilots is to have the cabin door locked at all times. If any sort of hijacking occurs the suggestion is to depressurise the main cabin (which will put everyone unconscious in about 30 seconds) and throw the aircraft into a series of violent S-curves that will throw anyone standing up around the cabin. It will obviously also hurt any passengers standing up, but anyone sitting down isn't going to get too badly hurt.

Then a flight crew member armed with a firearm can quickly enter the main cabin (with oxygen supply) post-maneouvers and quickly neutralise the terrorists before returning oxygen flow etc.

Post 9/11 there have been numerous attempted hijackings. I know in one example the air stewards actually had to physically pull a passenger off the attempted hijacker.

Ironically 9/11 has done more for airline safety than all the security experts in the world. No aircraft hijacking will ever be successful again.

-Andrew

[shuize]

That's true. While terrorists may bring down another plane, I doubt anyone is going to sit still for a normal highjacking. Hell, even Claus is ready to kill them. Well, if they've got guns, I mean.

[asmodean]

I fixed some errors with my doc. (thanks to those of you who pointed them out). A better link to it is here: http://911myths.com/LooseChangeCreatorsSpeak.pdf

New edition stored as well (http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~asmodean/ct/LooseChangeCreatorsSpeak.pdf).

And let me also add my thanks to you Gravy for doing all this job. I do not envy you (except maybe for your stamina to sit through all the ct-garbage in order to refute it).

[Anders W. Bonde]

Gravy,

Isn't it more plausible that the survival-type knife found in the wreckage of FLT 93 was in checked-in luggage rather than in the cabin?


ETA: Thanks for your sterling anti-9/11 CT work, Gravy. It's truly impressive. How do you find the time to make a living and/or have a family life?

I've begun reading the interview excerpts, too. Simply sickening. How can anyone be so stupid and actually be able to, I mean, speak, I mean...What total and utter morons...what a waste of protein...

[Pidge]

It seem almost IMPOSSIBLE for any rational person to accept these views so we cannot fathom why some people do....


Reasonable and rational people are unlikely to be taken in.

I suspect that, unfortunately, most people are not reasonable or rational, let alone and, when considering topics that do not fall within the areas of knowledge they have.

What's worse, they get to vote too.

[rikzilla]

Well I finally got thru it all. I feel like I need a long hot bath now. Gravy, how did you manage it? Most of us ninji can barely read it without gagging and yet you compiled the bloody thing!!

These scum are vultures. They're worse than any kind of con men I've ever heard of. They can't possibly believe their own drivel...if they did they'd challenge Gravy's critique. Instead they ban from the forum every coherrent dissenting voice. The Naudet lawsuit is the first good news, but these idiots need to be sued for libel as well. I hope that soon their "fame" will grow to the point that someone whom they have libeled will bring a case.

-z :mad:

[gumboot]

The Naudet lawsuit is the first good news, but these idiots need to be sued for libel as well.

In the United States what sort of criminal trouble do you get into for accusing people of High Treason and Mass Murder unsupported?

Someone should keep a running tally of all those "involved".

One of NORAD's so-called "exercises" titled OPERATION Northern Vigilance was actually a real-world event - a response to a large movement of Russian long-range bombers into Siberia for exercises. Funnily enough a lot of CT sites actually include the "Operation" bit (a dead give away that it's REAL).

And guess what? The Russian Exercise that tied up so many of NORAD's fighters was ended early on 9/11. GASP.

So clearly the Russian Government is involved in this conspiracy at some level. That must expand the conspiracy pool beyond the several million already identified...

:covereyes

-Andrew

[Gravy]

Gravy,

Isn't it more plausible that the survival-type knife found in the wreckage of FLT 93 was in checked-in luggage rather than in the cabin?


ETA: Thanks for your sterling anti-9/11 CT work, Gravy. It's truly impressive. How do you find the time to make a living and/or have a family life?

I've begun reading the interview excerpts, too. Simply sickening. How can anyone be so stupid and actually be able to, I mean, speak, I mean...What total and utter morons...what a waste of protein...

Good point about the knife. I didn't mean to imply that it definitely belonged to the hijackers, only that there was a real knife on board.

Who says I'm making a living and having a life? :eek: (I am single, so that helps, but at this rate I'll probably end up with a CT rather than a normal person. At least we'd have something in common to talk about. Hmm, I should probably remove the picture of me on rollerblades.)

edit: grammar

[CptColumbo]

I've been held up by someone holding a box cutter. Speculate all you want about how threatened you would feel, but when someone actually comes at you with a razor blade you'll do anything they ask. Unless you have somekind of defense training, which I do not have.

[60hzxtl]

Good point about the knife. I didn't mean to imply that it definitely belonged to the hijackers, only that there was a real knife on board.

Who says I'm making a living and having a life? :eek: (I am single, so that helps, but at this rate I'll probably end up with a CT rather than a normal person. At least we'd have something in common to talk about. Hmm, I should probably remove the picture of me on rollerblades.)

edit: grammar

I'm not even sure that that knife photo, listed in the evidence, was even found at the Pentagon. I've looked at it at the Moussaoui trial list of evidence and I can't see it listed as the type of evidence.
http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/FO08301-1.jpg

It may have only been used as an illustration of the type of knife that MAY have been used.

Or was it received from baggage that was denied a place on the flight?

Again, lets not read things into this that are not there -

Anyone able to decipher just what this image of a yellow handled knife marked "Made in China" actually means in relationship to the trial?

[realitybites]

I will be at Ground Zero on 9/11, and I'll be quite easy to find, since I'm not going to leave Avery's side. He wants the media's attention? Anyone who interviews him will also receive the biographical information I've gathered on him. I'll need people to sltick with Rowe and Bermas.
How far do you think Rowe and Bermas will stray from their fearless leader? I guess they'll be ready to split up as soon as multiple news crews begin to show up....

Well, I plan on taking the day off, so I'll be there. I also know of one comedian chick who's down with it as well, and I'm sure others will be there. We can make defensive assignment later on. (Bermas may need to be double- or triple-teamed with that mouth of his. :jaw-dropp )

[jon]

One other point about the knives - not only can small knives be used to kill, they were actually used to kill some people on the flights.

If there's going to be a media circus on 9/11, man would it be good if someone waved a 'small' box cutter at Avery and offered to take him on ;) Admittedly a very bad idea cause of the whole getting arrested thing, and violence really is bad, but it would make me smile :)

[realitybites]

One other point about the knives - not only can small knives be used to kill, they were actually used to kill some people on the flights.

If there's going to be a media circus on 9/11, man would it be good if someone waved a 'small' box cutter at Avery and offered to take him on ;) Admittedly a very bad idea cause of the whole getting arrested thing, and violence really is bad, but it would make me smile :)
Who says it needs to be during the media circus....?

[mrfreeze]

Please tell me someone plans to tape the following of Avery and the rest at the anniversary? I plan to avoid the news coverage of the event as best I can (what can I say it still depresses the hell out of me and I don't really want to see the ratings circle jerk around it) but definitely want to see them try and squirm their way out of this.

[jon]

Who says it needs to be during the media circus....?

Pictures of the guy's face when he sees the 'harmless' boxcutter might at least help to debunk one claim of his (OK, tbh I'd just like to see that video ;) ). With 'happy slapping' etc., I guess not much equipment is necessary though...

[realitybites]

I think Mr. Freeze may be on to something. Anyone planning on being at Ground Zero have a video camera? Wonder how the three of them would react when they're being filmed by someone they have no control over.

[Yahzi]

I admit that time prevents me from reading all of the discussions here, so this may have already been brought up by someone else, but what's separating these Loosers from the Al-Queda anyways?
Competence.

:D

[Yahzi]

While terrorists may bring down another plane, I doubt anyone is going to sit still for a normal highjacking.
They didn't sit still for this one.

As soon as Flight 93 found out that the hijackers had violated the normal rules of hijacking, they got up and fought.

The only reason any of the hijackings worked is because people let them work. And the reason they let them work is because we are Americans.

In America, we believe everyone has a right to have their say. And if you feel so strongly about your issue that you need to hijack a plane and ruin everyone's day to get a bunch of media attention, well, ok. We'll listen. We'll put in you jail afterwards, but we'll listen.

And that's why the first three planes let the hijackers put on their little show. Because Americans really believe that everyone should have a chance to speak.

Fascists of all stripes cannot even begin to grasp this concept. They will always attribute mercy to weakness, tolerance to gullibility, and fairness to stupidity.

[Mongrel]

I was going to point out that a popular weapon used by some football "hooligans" in the UK is (was) a tightly rolled newspaper, if you're accurate enough with one of those you can cause a lot of pain, and some significant damage (especially to the throat) and it is a very easy weapon to hide and dispose of.
Pretty effective weapons can be made from practically anything.

And don't forget that box cutters (or Stanley Knives over here) were the thugs favoured weapon a few years ago and are still used as they're cheap and ubiquitous (a small smattering here (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=assault+and+stanley+knife&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB)), although they've fallen out of fashion for the bigger flashier stuff :(

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

And don't forget that box cutters (or Stanley Knives over here) were the thugs favoured weapon a few years ago and are still used as they're cheap and ubiquitous (a small smattering here (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=assault+and+stanley+knife&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB)), although they've fallen out of fashion for the bigger flashier stuff :(

Here are some available from Home Depot, for comparison:
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1725892549.1150835648@ @@@&BV_EngineID=ccdeaddidkmhlffcgelceffdfgidgmm.0&CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=storehome/pg_storehome.jsp&MID=9876&pos=n01

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

...
I propose that this animosity be resolved through a wrestling match between me and jessicajohnstone.

Yeah, whatever happened to jessicajohnstone? I was expecting a grand entrance after the account was approved by the mods.

[60hzxtl]

I think Mr. Freeze may be on to something. Anyone planning on being at Ground Zero have a video camera? Wonder how the three of them would react when they're being filmed by someone they have no control over.


I've covered the 9/11 memorials at ground zero for the last 4 years.

It is not a free for all, and it is not like an event on the Great Lawn of Central Park.

Family members, Police, Fire Department, are admitted to the hole by invitation in the form of a neck tag. Press do not wander in and out - you have to have valid credentials, either from an employer, (network, newspaper, etc.) or if you are a freelancer, via NYPD issued press pass. That's what is covered, not the circus on the streets that it has become in the past two years.

There's a particularly loud motorcycle group who think it is a tribute to roar around, and around and around and around ground zero.

There's the guy that sells the Xeroxed maps with red marker on them to the tourists to show what the WTC looked like before the attack, (Dylan hugs him in his video) but he's there every day.

There are street vendors with water, balloons, flowers, and stuff of questionable taste.

If I know Ray Kelly, police commissioner, (and I am acquainted with him) he's onto the losers, and they will be shuttled off to a safe corner.

During the (Rep) Convention, I covered a demonstration that began at ground zero. They did not have a permit to march. They were told to disperse, or if they crossed the street, they would be arrested. They crossed the street. They were arrested, (it was a catch and release program.) Both the protesters and police handled it professionally.

I expect the same sort of thing. Maybe its time for the Holy Trinity of Dylan, Jason and Kory to be arrested so they can become martyrs, and do their version of M.L. King's, "Letter from Central Lock Up."

p.s. guys when they give you the baloney sandwich, eat the bread, skip the baloney.



If they think they are going to start their revolution there, they've picked the wrong crowd.

[CurtC]

In America, we believe everyone has a right to have their say. And if you feel so strongly about your issue that you need to hijack a plane and ruin everyone's day to get a bunch of media attention, well, ok. We'll listen. We'll put in you jail afterwards, but we'll listen.I strongly disagree with this. The folks on the planes didn't fight, because the entire history of hijackings taught us that we will likely be OK if we just liet them have their way for now. Hijackings had always been hostage situations, where the culprits made demands, such as letting their buddies out of Israeli prison.

They didn't give a flip about what it was the terrorists had to say, just that given the history, fighting was a bad idea.

[jon]

Maybe its time for the Holy Trinity of Dylan, Jason and Kory to be arrested so they can become martyrs, and do their version of M.L. King's, "Letter from Central Lock Up."

p.s. guys when they give you the baloney sandwich, eat the bread, skip the baloney.


At a guess, cops in NY aren't likely to be too sympathetic to the loosers?

[60hzxtl]

At a guess, cops in NY aren't likely to be too sympathetic to the loosers?


The current NYPD is a remarkably professional bunch. They would handle a disruption as a disturbance of the peace, with no third degree involved. If you go quietly, they don't make your life miserable; they don't take sides.

The line about the sandwich?

The bread is baked by the inmates at Rikers Island. It's REALLY good!

The baloney is cheap stuff, if that is not being redundant about baloney.

I've heard repeat offenders say that the bread is worth getting locked up for

[jon]

The current NYPD is a remarkably professional bunch. They would handle a disruption as a disturbance of the peace, with no third degree involved. If you go quietly, they don't make your life miserable; they don't take sides.

The line about the sandwich?

The bread is baked by the inmates at Rikers Island. It's REALLY good!

The baloney is cheap stuff, if that is not being redundant about baloney.

I've heard repeat offenders say that the bread is worth getting locked up for

Thanks, I assumed that was a suggestion that the balony might be tampered with. That said, cheap unmodified balony might already contain plenty of unappetising body parts :D

[Class]

Dylan Avery's response to Gravy's compilation of quotes:
echypoo, MSM, whoever else...

if there was an entire group of people dedicated to recording and scrutinzing EVERY WORD you've spoken since 2004, i bet there'd be some pretty dumb stuff in there too.

we're kids in the middle of a learning process here. yea, I say "I mean," because i'm still a kid, and I'm still kinda stuck in that mode, but I'm getting better.

mr. roberts has dug up absolutely every single interview i've ever done, so of course he's going to find some questionable statements.

you guys can agree with whoever you want, i'm done dealing with people like mr. roberts and the effect they have on individuals such as yourself. make up your own minds.

zack, make your $9.11 documentary and make it better than mine, otherwise stop criticizing me and my work. when you start going on radio shows all day every day, we'll see how you stack up to the pressure.

s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6602&st=60&#entry5475933

Edited to fix a spelling mistake.

[Gravy]

I'm not even sure that that knife photo, listed in the evidence, was even found at the Pentagon. I've looked at it at the Moussaoui trial list of evidence and I can't see it listed as the type of evidence.
http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/FO08301-1.jpg
Actually, I was talking about a knife from flight 93, not a box cutter. Don't have a picture handy, but I thought I remember seeing one.

[Gravy]

One other point about the knives - not only can small knives be used to kill, they were actually used to kill some people on the flights.

If there's going to be a media circus on 9/11, man would it be good if someone waved a 'small' box cutter at Avery and offered to take him on ;) Admittedly a very bad idea cause of the whole getting arrested thing, and violence really is bad, but it would make me smile :)

Oh, Sentinel, you out there...

(He has routinely made veiled - and maybe not so veiled - threats against Avery's return to Ground Zero. Sentinel is the auxiliary fireman seen arguing with Avery and Bermas at Ground Zero, and making some good points, in the extra features of LC2E.)

[realitybites]

you guys can agree with whoever you want, i'm done dealing with people like mr. roberts and the effect they have on individuals such as yourself. make up your own minds.

zack, make your $9.11 documentary and make it better than mine, otherwise stop criticizing me and my work. when you start going on radio shows all day every day, we'll see how you stack up to the pressure.
If you listen carefully, you can almost hear Dylan stomp up the stairs as he says this followed by the slamming of his bedroom door.

Truly a sad story. Lifetime quality. If not, there's at least some ABC After School Special material in it.

[HidariMak]

I strongly disagree with this. The folks on the planes didn't fight, because the entire history of hijackings taught us that we will likely be OK if we just liet them have their way for now. Hijackings had always been hostage situations, where the culprits made demands, such as letting their buddies out of Israeli prison.

They didn't give a flip about what it was the terrorists had to say, just that given the history, fighting was a bad idea.

On that note, I remember hearing a news report once stating what was heard over the radio of one of the jets used to hit one of the WTC buildings, right before it hit. It was one of the hijackers, announcing to the passengers that the plane was on its way to the airport, and would be landing in a few minutes. And the passengers cheered. The hijacker was probably smiling when he said that too, believing the rubbish about being sent to paradise to be forever serviced by virgins, when his own faith told him that he'd be going to hell for murdering those who weren't raising arms against him.

Regardless of the weapons which the hijackers had, the others likely would've acted much differently if they knew what was really going to happen. And to insult them for their lack of foresight into what was then an unimaginable event is foolish.

[MarkyX]

Dylan Avery's response to Gravy's compilation of quotes:


s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6602&st=60&#entry5475933

Edited to fix a spelling mistake.

Dylan "Million Dollar Baby" Avery

Sure it might not sound well on the tongue, but very accurate. The kid doesn't even have to work anymore and he complains about the fame he is getting while walking around with a sense of undeserved accomplishment.

[SRW]

When I was opening boxes with a box cutter, it slipped and took off half my thumb. That was 35 years ago and I still have the scar and no feeling in the area above the cut. I'm I big guy but I would not go after a bunch of guys with box cutters and, as I recall at lest on said he had a bomb. I cannot imagine anyone attaching a hijacker unless they knew the thugs were going to go bad...like on flight 93.

[gumboot]

Fascists of all stripes cannot even begin to grasp this concept. They will always attribute mercy to weakness, tolerance to gullibility, and fairness to stupidity.


I know comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbour is the forte of CTers... but...

According to individuals who were with Osama and friends at the time of 9/11... he anticipated the damaged floors of the towers collapsing, but not the collapse of the entire building. (Bear in mind his family have a very successful construction company).

I can't help but think he might have felt a bit like Yamamoto when he saw those towers come crashing to the ground.

I suspect he felt even more like Yamamoto when the entire world said "Yes" to invading Afghanistan and he had to go hide in a cave...

-Andrew

[gumboot]

The hijacker was probably smiling when he said that too, believing the rubbish about being sent to paradise to be forever serviced by virgins, when his own faith told him that he'd be going to hell for murdering those who weren't raising arms against him.

I remember at the time of 9/11 a lot of people immediately called the official story false because it was such a "complication" operation that required "extensive resources".

I found this patently absurd. All that was required was airline timetables and wrist watches.

Nonetheless, the single thing that bugged me was the number of hijackers. Even in 2001 suicide bombers were extremely rare. I found it highly unlikely they could have rounded up 19 hijackers all willing to die.

But then it became obvious to me. Only the hijacker actually piloting the plane had to know it was a suicide mission. The other hijackers could have genuinely believed it was a regular hijacking mission.

The flight recorder from U93 seems to suggest the hijackers struggled over the control column at the last moments. This seems to reinforce the notion that not all of them knew it was a suicide.

It's really of no surprise... having read Saburo Saki's autobiography "Samurai!" I'm well aware that the Japanese Kamakazi were not all as willing to die as history would have us believe.

Anyway... this, and accounts from workmates of my father working in the middle east with the UN seem to indicate the "willing to die" are as often as not gullible pawns. Something to consider.

-Andrew

(P.S. This is not a claim that any sympathy should be felt for such people at all. But it suggests greater hope of defeating this enemy.)

[Flo]

If I know Ray Kelly, police commissioner, (and I am acquainted with him) he's onto the losers, and they will be shuttled off to a safe corner.

How does he feel about the accusations of some of the loosers regarding a possible involvement of the NYPD and Giuliani in the "conspiracy" ? I really wish those scums were made to eat their words on that bit (and on what they said about the victims in general).

[MarkyX]

How does he feel about the accusations of some of the loosers regarding a possible involvement of the NYPD and Giuliani in the "conspiracy" ? I really wish those scums were made to eat their words on that bit (and on what they said about the victims in general).

All they have to do is threaten a police officer or touch them and we got some nice "POLICE STATE OMG" going on.

I would so record that and sell it for 17.95. I can make around a million dollars.

[Flo]

All they have to do is threaten a police officer or touch them and we got some nice "POLICE STATE OMG" going on.

I would so record that and sell it for 17.95. I can make around a million dollars.


I wasn't considering the police beating or threatening them, I was thinking about a nice lawsuit for slander or libel, or false accusations. Note that should one come, we'll hear all kinds of variations on the theme of "my rights", "police state", "freespeech", etc.


I've been trying to make some French and Canadian idiots aware of the fact that by relaying this nonsense, they were accessories to committing slander (accusations calomnieuses, in French), which is a serious offence that could send them to court. Of course, the "police state card" was immediately played ... :rolleyes: Those kids want to be heroes in their own eyes, but are certainly not ready to shoulder the consequences.

[60hzxtl]

How does he feel about the accusations of some of the loosers regarding a possible involvement of the NYPD and Giuliani in the "conspiracy" ? I really wish those scums were made to eat their words on that bit (and on what they said about the victims in general).


He is the police commissioner. He deals with real bad guys, real psycho's real terrorists, real dangers, and real threats of danger, all the time.

Kidz Wit' Kameraz, printed t-shirts, badly spelled placards "Its teh conspirocy!" are just a gnat to the pros.

The PD would not bother with a libel law suit - you have to show damages, and as a public figure, or figures, they are subject to ridicule, etc.

False accusations, they deal with all the time. About the only time they pursue it is if it effects a criminal case. Other than that, it's just another day at the office.

As far as the whiners complaining about the police state, they love to play "civil disobedience." But true Civil disobedience requires that you go quietly and take the consequences of you disobedience, as Ghandi, of M.L. King jr. did. They don't get that part.

[chran]

I cannot imagine anyone attaching a hijacker unless they knew the thugs were going to go bad...like on flight 93. I would - I would rush one of those modderfukkers before they knew what hit them.

[Chaos]

They didn't sit still for this one.

As soon as Flight 93 found out that the hijackers had violated the normal rules of hijacking, they got up and fought.

The only reason any of the hijackings worked is because people let them work. And the reason they let them work is because we are Americans.

In America, we believe everyone has a right to have their say. And if you feel so strongly about your issue that you need to hijack a plane and ruin everyone's day to get a bunch of media attention, well, ok. We'll listen. We'll put in you jail afterwards, but we'll listen.

And that's why the first three planes let the hijackers put on their little show. Because Americans really believe that everyone should have a chance to speak.

Fascists of all stripes cannot even begin to grasp this concept. They will always attribute mercy to weakness, tolerance to gullibility, and fairness to stupidity.

I beg to differ. The reason passengers did not - pre-9/11 - resist hijackers was because it was the best way to stay alive.

On an "ordinary" hijacking, if you resist, you will probably get killed, maybe even everyone on the plane will die. If you don´t resist, the history of hijackings show you have a very good chance of surviving the experience.

On a suicide hijacking - that is, 9/11 style - if you do not resist, you´re dead, and it is very likely that lots of other people are going to die, too. If you resist, you have chance to survive - probably a very small chance, but a chance nonetheless; and unless you scre up completely, nobody else outside the plane is going to die.

So, simple logic shows that not resisting an "ordinary" hijacking is the best choice, as is resisting a suicide hijacking.

[Flo]

He is the police commissioner. He deals with real bad guys, real psycho's real terrorists, real dangers, and real threats of danger, all the time.

Kidz Wit' Kameraz, printed t-shirts, badly spelled placards "Its teh conspirocy!" are just a gnat to the pros.

The PD would not bother with a libel law suit - you have to show damages, and as a public figure, or figures, they are subject to ridicule, etc..

I understand. However, should CT spread to a significant level, such as someone actually suing the PD or FD, or some other agency, wouldn't they have to counter ?

As far as the whiners complaining about the police state, they love to play "civil disobedience." But true Civil disobedience requires that you go quietly and take the consequences of you disobedience, as Ghandi, of M.L. King jr. did. They don't get that part.

Agreed. Essentially irresponsible cowards.

[XXX]

Dylan Avery's response to Gravy's compilation of quotes:

s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6602&st=60&#entry5475933
echypoo, MSM, whoever else...

if there was an entire group of people dedicated to recording and scrutinzing EVERY WORD you've spoken since 2004, i bet there'd be some pretty dumb stuff in there too.

He didn't go over EVERY WORD you've spoken, just what you have said in PUBLIC INTERVIEWS. You have to watch what you say in public.

mr. roberts has dug up absolutely every single interview i've ever done, so of course he's going to find some questionable statements.

"Some" questionable statements being several pages worth! And it's not like you have to talk about 100 different topics like some politician or radio talk show guy, all you have to do is talk about one subject, 9/11, without making a fool out of yourself.

you guys can agree with whoever you want, i'm done dealing with people like mr. roberts and the effect they have on individuals such as yourself. make up your own minds.

I love this part..."and the effect they have on individuals such as yourself". You weak minded fool! He's using an old Jedi mind trick!

zack, make your $9.11 documentary and make it better than mine, otherwise stop criticizing me and my work. when you start going on radio shows all day every day, we'll see how you stack up to the pressure.
Edited to fix a spelling mistake.

I'm sorry, did Dylan actually make a 9/11 documentary? Documentarys do have facts, don't they? :eye-poppi

[Montoya]

I'm sorry, did Dylan actually make a 9/11 documentary? Documentarys do have facts, don't they? :eye-poppi

He meant mockumentary.

[60hzxtl]

Documentarys do have facts, don't they? :eye-poppi


The ones I make do.

Otherwise it's as Henry Luce once said about the March of Time series,

"Creative fakery in alligence to the truth."

The term Documentary ain't what it used to be.

[sackett]

I recall reading about an incident that occurred not long after September 11. Some genius tried to hijack an Air India flight with a knife. That didn’t surprise me, hell there’s always some copycat piece of Rule 8 around, yearning for fame. The surprising thing is that the ~100 passengers who mugged him let him live until the plane landed. What amazing restraint!

Skyjacking will never be the same again.

Yeah, I’d jump one of them. There’s a pa kua move called Monkey Picking Fruit that works well in a confined space. I leave the details to your imagination.

[Hellbound]

Yeah, I’d jump one of them. There’s a pa kua move called Monkey Picking Fruit that works well in a confined space. I leave the details to your imagination.

Sounds similar to one I learned called "Dragon Claw".

[hellaeon]

I wasn't considering the police beating or threatening them, I was thinking about a nice lawsuit for slander or libel, or false accusations. Note that should one come, we'll hear all kinds of variations on the theme of "my rights", "police state", "freespeech", etc.


I've been trying to make some French and Canadian idiots aware of the fact that by relaying this nonsense, they were accessories to committing slander (accusations calomnieuses, in French), which is a serious offence that could send them to court. Of course, the "police state card" was immediately played ... :rolleyes: Those kids want to be heroes in their own eyes, but are certainly not ready to shoulder the consequences.

...Yeah but heroes like John McClane in the Die Hard documentries get to walk away with the spoils without the need to shoulder anything or any circumstance. Come on man, educate yourself...

[gumboot]

I have to laugh at Dylan's "pressure" from lots of interviews. If his claims were genuine, he would be chomping at the bit to get on air and tell people about it. The interviewers wouldn't get a word in edgewise.

Instead he almost seems reluctant to speak. Half the time it's the hosts laying down the accusations, and he just agrees.

The only reason he feels so much pressure (pressure? Try a live performance in front of 40,000 people, buddy) in those interviews is because he knows his "evidence" is about as solid as an invisicrete core.

-Andrew

EDIT: Ack, laptop typo

[pgwenthold]

He didn't go over EVERY WORD you've spoken, just what you have said in PUBLIC INTERVIEWS. You have to watch what you say in public.



I think the thing that he is discovering is that this isn't a game. Words have consequences, especially when you put them out there for everyone to see. It's one thing to hide behind an anonomous internet group (like this :)), but when you stick yourself out there, as they like to so famously trumpet, then you better be prepared.

A good thing about fame is that people listen to what you say. OTOH, a bad thing about fame is that people actually listen to what you say. You have to have your ducks in a row, it isn't a game.

[gumboot]

A good thing about fame is that people listen to what you say. OTOH, a bad thing about fame is that people actually listen to what you say. You have to have your ducks in a row, it isn't a game.

And of course it's always more important when you're out there claiming to make a stand for something specific.

His quotes are not just "the odd slip up".

His video claims "Dedicated to the lives lost on 9/11" His words in public (and actions) demonstrate this to be entirely untrue.

-Andrew

[HidariMak]

I remember at the time of 9/11 a lot of people immediately called the official story false because it was such a "complication" operation that required "extensive resources".

I found this patently absurd. All that was required was airline timetables and wrist watches.

Nonetheless, the single thing that bugged me was the number of hijackers. Even in 2001 suicide bombers were extremely rare. I found it highly unlikely they could have rounded up 19 hijackers all willing to die.

But then it became obvious to me. Only the hijacker actually piloting the plane had to know it was a suicide mission. The other hijackers could have genuinely believed it was a regular hijacking mission.

The flight recorder from U93 seems to suggest the hijackers struggled over the control column at the last moments. This seems to reinforce the notion that not all of them knew it was a suicide.

It's really of no surprise... having read Saburo Saki's autobiography "Samurai!" I'm well aware that the Japanese Kamakazi were not all as willing to die as history would have us believe.

Anyway... this, and accounts from workmates of my father working in the middle east with the UN seem to indicate the "willing to die" are as often as not gullible pawns. Something to consider.

-Andrew

(P.S. This is not a claim that any sympathy should be felt for such people at all. But it suggests greater hope of defeating this enemy.)

I am by no stretch qualified to argue which is more likely, but I think having one story for the ringleaders and another story for everyone else would present its own challenges. Perhaps I'm just not giving those who follow the beliefs of Al-Queda enough credit for self-preservation and rationality though, since the corrupted version of their own faith is all the backing they seem to need for their intolerance.

Anyways, since those behind Loose Change seem to be offering more of the same on each round, I'm hopeful that their 15 minutes will be ending soon enough. If the public doesn't lose interest like they did with JZ Knight, the media might eventually say "enough already" and show Gravy's arguments.

[kookbreaker]

If you listen carefully, you can almost hear Dylan stomp up the stairs as he says this followed by the slamming of his bedroom door.

Truly a sad story. Lifetime quality. If not, there's at least some ABC After School Special material in it.


The ABC After School Movie Presents:

They Took My Conspiracy Away

Starring a cast of Loosers.

[NDBoston]

Hi everyone:

First of all it's my first post in here. I've been lurking for some time and after a long wait to get activated, here I am.

This is personal for me. I worked for SSB at 7WTC on 9-11. After seeing debris hit our building and taking 45 minutes to get down we had to go out the back of the building because of sooo much debris in front blocking the entrance.

I also lost many friends from Cantor who had just left my company to go over there. To deal with these CT's and their theories drives me insane. Little did I know that I missed the demolition people wiring my building for months and I didn't notice.

I would like to give a link to where Jason Bermas from Loose Change went on the Opie and Anthony show on XM. It's NSFW with the language and they rip the guy apart. Good stuff.

Edit:It looks like I can't post a link for 14 more posts. Just google "Opie and Anthony and Loose Change" to find it. It's worth a download, trust me


Korey Rowe is also scheduled to do talk on Paltalk on June 28th at 8PM EST. For those who don't know Paltalk, it's a chat software with webcam capability. The conspiracy freaks have been hanging out there for a few months.All you need to do is type in 911 in the search function after downloading the software.

Thanks for doing a great job debunking these guys.

[dubfan]

Hi everyone:

First of all it's my first post in here. I've been lurking for some time and after a long wait to get activated, here I am.

This is personal for me. I worked for SSB at 7WTC on 9-11. After seeing debris hit our building and taking 45 minutes to get down we had to go out the back of the building because of sooo much debris in front blocking the entrance.

I also lost many friends from Cantor who had just left my company to go over there. To deal with these CT's and their theories drives me insane. Little did I know that I missed the demolition people wiring my building for months and I didn't notice.

I would like to give a link to where Jason Bermas from Loose Change went on the Opie and Anthony show on XM. It's NSFW with the language and they rip the guy apart. Good stuff.

Edit:It looks like I can't post a link for 14 more posts. Just google "Opie and Anthony and Loose Change" to find it. It's worth a download, trust me


Korey Rowe is also scheduled to do talk on Paltalk on June 28th at 8PM EST. For those who don't know Paltalk, it's a chat software with webcam capability. The conspiracy freaks have been hanging out there for a few months.All you need to do is type in 911 in the search function after downloading the software.

Thanks for doing a great job debunking these guys.


Welcome NDB, and thanks for the heads-up. You can go ahead and post the link if you like, just leave off the leading http: or something.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friends.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Hi everyone:

First of all it's my first post in here. I've been lurking for some time and after a long wait to get activated, here I am.

This is personal for me. I worked for SSB at 7WTC on 9-11. After seeing debris hit our building and taking 45 minutes to get down we had to go out the back of the building because of sooo much debris in front blocking the entrance.

I also lost many friends from Cantor who had just left my company to go over there. To deal with these CT's and their theories drives me insane. Little did I know that I missed the demolition people wiring my building for months and I didn't notice.

I would like to give a link to where Jason Bermas from Loose Change went on the Opie and Anthony show on XM. It's NSFW with the language and they rip the guy apart. Good stuff.

Edit:It looks like I can't post a link for 14 more posts. Just google "Opie and Anthony and Loose Change" to find it. It's worth a download, trust me


Korey Rowe is also scheduled to do talk on Paltalk on June 28th at 8PM EST. For those who don't know Paltalk, it's a chat software with webcam capability. The conspiracy freaks have been hanging out there for a few months.All you need to do is type in 911 in the search function after downloading the software.

Thanks for doing a great job debunking these guys.

Welcome to the forum NDBoston. Just out of curiosity, how did you find us?

Thanks for the heads up on the inteview coming up on the 28th.

-AW

p.s. Make sure to check out some of our other subforums. Lot's of good discussion here besides 9/11

[NDBoston]

I found the board through Screw Loose Change I believe. I'm ready to sink my teeth into some other discussions besides 9/11 too.

The link for ONA and Loose Change minus the www:

.911podcasts.com/files/audio/OpieAnthony20060406_JasonBermas911Segment.mp3

[kookbreaker]

I found the board through Screw Loose Change I believe. I'm ready to sink my teeth into some other discussions besides 9/11 too.

The link for ONA and Loose Change minus the www:

.911podcasts.com/files/audio/OpieAnthony20060406_JasonBermas911Segment.mp3

Welcome NDBoston. I recall that appearance on Opie and Anthony being posted before, but its good to have a repost of these things. You can tell that Bermas not used to having anything but conspiracy minded suck-ups interview him.

"Are you a member of the Republican Party?!"

Hey Gravy, did any quotes from the O&A hsow make it into the 'LC speaks'?

[NDBoston]

Welcome NDBoston. I recall that appearance on Opie and Anthony being posted before, but its good to have a repost of these things. You can tell that Bermas not used to having anything but conspiracy minded suck-ups interview him.

"Are you a member of the Republican Party?!"

Hey Gravy, did any quotes from the O&A hsow make it into the 'LC speaks'?

That's why I posted the link. I didn't see any quotes from that appearance and it seems like there's some "gold" in that appearance.

[Montoya]

I found the board through Screw Loose Change I believe. I'm ready to sink my teeth into some other discussions besides 9/11 too.

The link for ONA and Loose Change minus the www:

.911podcasts.com/files/audio/OpieAnthony20060406_JasonBermas911Segment.mp3

I loved the bit where the retired police officer calls in...

[Gravy]

Welcome, NDBoston, and thanks for sharing some of your story.

kookbreaker, I had forgotten about the Opie and Anthony interview, so, no, it didn't make it in to my piece. Avery's claim that I dredged up every single interview he's done is false. Mostly I just went to the links that are promoted on the "Media" page of the LC forum site. The interview in which Avery says he would laugh in the hijackers' faces is promoted on the main LC site. They can't claim that I had to work to uncover this stuff. They proudly promote it.

[Grundar]

I found the board through Screw Loose Change I believe. I'm ready to sink my teeth into some other discussions besides 9/11 too.

The link for ONA and Loose Change
http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/OpieAnthony20060406_JasonBermas911Segment.mp3


Link fixed.

Edit: Forgot to add welcome NDBoston

/Hans

[CurtC]

This is personal for me. I worked for SSB at 7WTC on 9-11. After seeing debris hit our building and taking 45 minutes to get down we had to go out the back of the building because of sooo much debris in front blocking the entrance.Let me also add: welcome!

Can you clarify your comments for me? The debris that hit your building, was that when the second plane hit the South Tower? I know debris from that carried to the North in your direction, but I'm not aware of when your building was evacuated. I have always assumed that it was before either tower fell, but I'd like to get a better picture.

[Pardalis]

Welcome NDBoston!

It's nice to have someone who has actually been there. My sympathies for your friends.

Thanks for the link. How come I missed that one? As Kookbreaker said, it's a good idea to repost some of these links from time to time for the absend-minded people like me who missed them. :D

[RandFan]

Welcome NDBoston!

It's nice to have someone who has actually been there. My sympathies for your friends.

Thanks for the link. How come I missed that one? As Kookbreaker said, it's a good idea to repost some of these links from time to time for the absend-minded people like me who missed them. :D It is gold. From a critical thinking standpoint the interview fails. I would otherwise not like it except that Avery is such an ass and he deserves this kind of treatment since he is clearly a wacko with zero evidence and the whole "I'm only asking questions" is so transparent and stupid. He deserves to be mocked. Many of his accusations really don't even merit a response. When he accuses a father who has lost his son of murdering that child and he has NO evidence and he then sets out to hound that father then he deserves all he gets.

The guy is a world class, grade A prick.

ETA: Welcome NDBoston.

[Pardalis]

The guy is a world class, grade A prick.


He even looks like one.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/8886449ad29ed1c5c.png

Where I come from, we call them "face à fesser dedans".

Belz, translation please?

[chipmunk stew]

I found the board through Screw Loose Change I believe. I'm ready to sink my teeth into some other discussions besides 9/11 too.

The link for ONA and Loose Change:

www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/OpieAnthony20060406_JasonBermas911Segment.mp3 (http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/OpieAnthony20060406_JasonBermas911Segment.mp3)Welc ome, NDB!

Thanks for that link. My feeling about it is similar to RandFan's. I usually hate this kind of overly confrontational, insulting interview, but this one was exceptionally satisfying--I may have to listen to it again. They missed a few opportunities to eviscerate Rowe's statements, resorting to ad hominem instead, but they nailed him to the wall enough that the idiocy of his position was transparent. The best parts were when they challenged him about how the wiring of WTC could have been pulled off and when the NYPD guy called in about WTC7.

[Pardalis]

I'm hearing the radio interview right now, this is candy!

[NDBoston]

Let me also add: welcome!

Can you clarify your comments for me? The debris that hit your building, was that when the s