Loose Change - Part III

[MarkyX]

I may have missed something - but why, then, was Iraq invaded if AQ is the enemy? Anyway this is not a politics thread I suppose.

No, Sword, it was not offensive really, it just made me sigh.

Because Bush is an idiot

I might be right-wing (GASP SHOCK) but he is someone who should not be leading office of the world's most powerful nation.

[Brainster]

Because Bush is an idiot

I might be right-wing (GASP SHOCK) but he is someone who should not be leading office of the world's most powerful nation.

The argument that led us to Iraq was that a rogue regime could not be allowed to pursue WMD in the world after 9-11. It was an argument that was convincing to over half the Democratic senators (including all those with presidential aspirations), and to such clearly non-dim bulbs as Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell and Tony Blair.

And anyway, it's not like Bush was going up against towering intellects. I'd love to appear on Jeopardy! against Albert Gore and John Kerry.:D

[JamesB]

Formally speaking, I resigned. He suspended me for a week for rather unclear reasons, which interestingly were unclear to his co-chair as well; and in the email exchange which I had with him following that I saw reasons to resign from SfT.

Having exchanged e-mail with Mr. Fetzer, I can understand. He avoided just about every question I asked while hurling uncreative insults.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The analogy is just perfect.

Ignore the foreground, and have a good look at the background:

Gypsy can run the world, but her own back yard is a mess!

Gypsy is a man with gynecomastia and microphallus.

[Belz...]

johndoeX was asked about flight 77's circling maneuver just before it hit the Pentagon. After asserting that he had done a lot of study and that it was in a certain thread, then finding that it wasn't really posted there, he has come up with this as his guess of 77's flight path:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3800&view=findpost&p=6063420

I had accepted that he is/was a commercial pilot, but his guess is so completely, totally clueless that I can no longer keep from questioning his credentials.

He has the flight making an almost complete circle (at a fairly high speed presumably) with a diameter of about 1/4 mile. No wonder he's skeptical of whether this could be done!

:jaw-dropp

I'm not even sure a cesna could do that.

[Belz...]

Hola brothers and sisters.

How goes the war on Sylvia Browne and Bigfoot? Are you winning yet?

How goes your search for something clever to say ?

Fight on people! I am considering going over to fight the evil and unjust, warlike Muslims with the empathetic and peaceful Israelis. :eek:

Everybody's warline, man. Let's just drop the sarcasm.

[gumboot]

:jaw-dropp

I'm not even sure a cesna could do that.


A Cessna 172 could at low speed, but then I can't imagine a Cessna 172 inflicting much damage on the reinforced blast-proof walls of the Pentagon...

It'd probably bounce off.

-Andrew

[milesalpha]

Hola brothers and sisters.

How goes the war on Sylvia Browne and Bigfoot? Are you winning yet?

Fight on people! I am considering going over to fight the evil and unjust, warlike Muslims with the empathetic and peaceful Israelis. :eek:

This is an example of one of the real weak points of the CTers (at least for me). They seem to be incapable of separating the idea that rejecting their improbable ideas is completely different from political belief. Simply because I reject Loose Change does not mean I am pro-Bush (I have considered him an idiot for far longer than he has been president), anti-patriot (being Canadian, my patriotism is, of course, limited to hockey), anti-Jewish, anti-Muslim, or anything else they attribute to people who have a higher standard of evidence than those who can just stare at a few videos.

On the political discussion,
The CT folks often like to use the Hitler and Reichstag fire (incorrectly, of course) as proof of the conspiracy idea. Using the actual story, that the fire was begun by one nutty communist leading to Hitler seizing on the opportunity to eliminate political resistance and pursue his agenda ahead of schedule, creates a much more reasonable comparison. Bush and crew seized on the convenient event to pursue an agenda that they could not have forced so quickly.
They had to go to Afghanistan, it was too obvious a place not to strike. The attack on Iraq indicates one of two things to me, both of which are strangely plausible. First, the idea that the oil boys in the White House wanted to destabilize the middle east and drive oil prices sky high to create recording breaking profits for the oil industry. Or second, that Bush and his posse of chicken-hawk cowboys really didn't have a clue what they were doing and chose a target they thought they could beat easily and get away with it. I do think that the CT cause hurts what should be the real imperative in the US, getting that nutty administration out of there.

[WildCat]

This is an example of one of the real weak points of the CTers (at least for me).
To me, it is this: They apparently believe that the government is completely corrupt, controlled by shadowy forces who have no qualms about killing 3,000 innocents in order to achieve their diabolical goals. So what does jenabell do about it? He trolls a skeptic message board. Way to fight the evil power jenabell!

[sophia8]

:confused:

What was sexist about his comment?

-Andrew
OK, maybe not technically sexist. But as a woman, I was getting pretty tired of the mysogynistic nature of the comments about Gypsy. Criticise her politics all you like, by why descend into stuff about her appearence? (SOT, I'm looking at you.)
The Loosers already do plenty of that.

[The_Fire]

Effing hell. Loose change is still out there......on google video......and youtube.....
Given the fact that I didn't hear from ms. Davis (The naudet's lawyer) when i wrote the last time, I'm a bit leary about contacting her again unsolicited.
Any ideas?

[SezMe]

Look what I whipped up in an hour

I looked througt the whole three parts last night. Up to now, I must admit I was not must interested in this controversy because I thought the LCers were just another wacky group. Sorta ho-hum, aren't they weird.

But I now see why the passionate involvement of many of you. Yeah, they're nuts, but unlike many others whose impact is quite limited, these guys are doing real damage both personally and publically to the national dialog. I get that now. So, MarkyX, if your site has that effect on others, that will be an added benefit.

PS: Despite only a couple of points I questioned, it was very well done. FWIW, you have my thanks.

[Abbyas]

OK, maybe not technically sexist. But as a woman, I was getting pretty tired of the mysogynistic nature of the comments about Gypsy. Criticise her politics all you like, by why descend into stuff about her appearence? (SOT, I'm looking at you.)
The Loosers already do plenty of that.

I hear you, but the lady is naked. Kind of tough to avoid it.

If it was a guy who was nude, you'd bet they'd be talking about it.

[60hzxtl]

Effing hell. Loose change is still out there......on google video......and youtube.....
Given the fact that I didn't hear from ms. Davis (The naudet's lawyer) when i wrote the last time, I'm a bit leary about contacting her again unsolicited.
Any ideas?


The loosers claim to be dealing:

http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/

"We have to take some of the Naudet's footage out (nothing imperative). Just making it a little bit better. I can't spend too much time on it, it's already set us back considerable.

Theater distribution deals are locked and loaded, all we have to do is finish the movie. That means interviewing people, tracking down footage, licensing it, etc."


Or in reality, they are telling themselves that they are just fine, and can do a re-edit, mix, etc. in time for Sept. 2006 (I predict the new version including the credits, with all the inaccuracies removed will be about 4 minutes. )

When they say "Theater distribution" rather than "Theatrical distribution" I think they've given themselves an out when it plays at the local Pantages, that has been a Bingo Hall for 25 years, but used to be a theater. . .

[The_Fire]

Yeah, and I'm santa claus......"Nothing Imperative" my lily white bottom.

[WildCat]

OK, maybe not technically sexist. But as a woman, I was getting pretty tired of the mysogynistic nature of the comments about Gypsy. Criticise her politics all you like, by why descend into stuff about her appearence? (SOT, I'm looking at you.)
The Loosers already do plenty of that.
Maybe you didn't notice it, but the woman was naked! If you're going to protest naked, this is what you get. If her message was her point maybe she should have kept her clothes on.

eta: Abby beat me to it.

[blue_eastcoast]

Loose Change is awesome.

don't care what you say.

it's awesome.

even if it's not true.

it's awesome.

they lay out their facts in a clear way so people can understand them, I don't see why you people argue about it so much.

[60hzxtl]

even if it's not true.

it's awesome.

they lay out their facts.


Uh, do you see a contradiction here?

The Lone Ranger was awesome too.

Though not true.

We call that fiction.

In this case, close to 3,000 real people died. Unlike a video game, they don't get up again.

That's fact.

Loose Change is a laughing stock. As are the "creators" in the news rooms of NY.

[MarkyX]

Loose Change is awesome.

don't care what you say.

it's awesome.

even if it's not true.

it's awesome.

they lay out their facts in a clear way so people can understand them, I don't see why you people argue about it so much.

Name 1 fact.

[Regnad Kcin]

Loose Change is awesome.

don't care what you say.

it's awesome.

even if it's not true.

it's awesome.

they lay out their facts in a clear way so people can understand them, I don't see why you people argue about it so much.Awesome. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1772645&postcount=87)

Awesome (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1558436&postcount=11)

Awesome. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1456582&postcount=18)

[The_Fire]

AmyWilson, is that you?

[Pardalis]

Loose Change is awesome.

don't care what you say.

it's awesome.

even if it's not true.

it's awesome.

they lay out their facts in a clear way so people can understand them, I don't see why you people argue about it so much.

What are you, 12 years old?

[CptColumbo]

Loose Change is awesome.

don't care what you say.

it's awesome.

even if it's not true.

it's awesome.

they lay out their facts in a clear way so people can understand them, I don't see why you people argue about it so much.

It's a bad piece of investigative journalism, the sources are not credible, the questions they ask are uninformed and the answers are often taken out of context, some of the facts are distorted so people who are unfamiliar with the subject will draw the wrong conclusion, and they took much of their footage from other sources without giving proper credit.

The voice-over is bad. It's high pitched, nasal, fast, and not very well articulated. The original footage that was shot was at a bad angle for documentaries (it should be at least at eye-level). The audio for those segments was distorted, and the lighting was also sub-par.

So it was poorly researched and poorly crafted. What about it do you find "awesome?"

[SRW]

What are you, 12 years old?

OK Pardalis, show a little respect for 12 year olds, not all of them know that there is no easter Bunny. They are the ones we call special and we must be tolerant with them.

We really should chill out about the 3,000 slaughtered, after all someone is being entertained, gotta be the music.

I would stick a link to Screw Loose Change but I have already discovered that some of the denser ones do not pick up on the subtitles. It's operantly way to much work to read while watching a movie.

Edited to undangle a participial

[MarkyX]

OPINION TIME

Someone sent me a link to a rather professional documentation called "Brotherhood of Terror: The Muslim Brotherhood", which goes into get detail about the Muslim religion and it's rather dark past.

Which begs the question, should I post this on the site for the sake of understanding Al-Qaeda more and that they are more then just a dozen pissed off Muslims, or should I back away from this?

[Stellafane]

OPINION TIME

Someone sent me a link to a rather professional documentation called "Brotherhood of Terror: The Muslim Brotherhood", which goes into get detail about the Muslim religion and it's rather dark past.

Which begs the question, should I post this on the site for the sake of understanding Al-Qaeda more and that they are more then just a dozen pissed off Muslims, or should I back away from this?

Personally, I'd back away. What religion doesn't have a rather dark past?

[JamesB]

It's a bad piece of investigative journalism, the sources are not credible, the questions they ask are uninformed and the answers are often taken out of context, some of the facts are distorted so people who are unfamiliar with the subject will draw the wrong conclusion, and they took much of their footage from other sources without giving proper credit.



Investigative journalism would presuppose that there was any investigation or journalism being conducted. As I have yet to find evidence of either, referring to it as investigative journalism, bad or otherwise, is inherently misleading.

[Stellafane]

Loose Change is awesome.

don't care what you say.

it's awesome.

even if it's not true.

it's awesome.

they lay out their facts in a clear way so people can understand them, I don't see why you people argue about it so much.

That you, Dylan?

[60hzxtl]

Personally, I'd back away. What religion doesn't have a rather dark past?


Quote of the week. (or more)

More than planes were hijacked on 9/11.

[MarkyX]

Personally, I'd back away. What religion doesn't have a rather dark past?

Well looking at the video, they do show the reasons why an organization like AQ would be after the west, along with every other muslim. In fact, this entire video shows how exactly the anti-western Islamic movement began, including World War 2, the birth of Israel, and Russia.

A lot of CTs seem to believe that there is no reason for Muslims to go after the West, and this video does show a tale not often cited in the media.

[Pardalis]

As a friendly advice, I wouldn't do anything that could offend any Muslims these days. :)

[MarkyX]

As a friendly advice, I wouldn't do anything that could offend any Muslims these days. :)

What about The Usual Suspects? I got a few interesting Muslim emails on that one (even though I didn't make it!) saying that it's offensive or AQ weren't "real" muslims.

[Pardalis]

What about The Usual Suspects? I got a few interesting Muslim emails on that one (even though I didn't make it!) saying that it's offensive or they weren't "real" muslims.

Yeah but things have slightly changed since then... You know what I mean? ;)

[MarkyX]

Yeah but things have slightly changed since then... You know what I mean? ;)

Still, I'm a firm believer of Freedom of Speech and listening to all sides of the story as long as they provide evidence and entertaining.

And this video, which is actually from the History Channel, is pretty damn good at it.

I will probably upload this tomorrow.

[Pardalis]

Glad to have been of any help.:)

[gumboot]

Well looking at the video, they do show the reasons why an organization like AQ would be after the west, along with every other muslim. In fact, this entire video shows how exactly the anti-western Islamic movement began, including World War 2, the birth of Israel, and Russia.

A lot of CTs seem to believe that there is no reason for Muslims to go after the West, and this video does show a tale not often cited in the media.


From the title, I would assume it looks a lot at the Muslim Brotherhood, which really began this all. It's really quite fascinating to look into the Muslim Brotherhood and see just how much they have influenced the current situation. It's also quite interesting to see the people involved in the various terrorist activities under the umbrella of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the connections to Nazi Germany.

Take these three: Francois Genoud (manager of Nazi funds stolen off Jews and primary financier of Odessa), Youssef Nada (experience with Nazi Intelligence in WW2 followed by activities with the Muslim Brotherhood's para-military wing) and Ahman Huber (devout Neo-Nazi and Swiss-born convert to radical Islam). These three were the primary founders of the Al Taqwa Bank - a bank that was a primary funder of terrorist groups until it was shut down by Swiss Authorities post 9/11.

Then there's some of their ideological aims, announced fairly early on:

The 14 page dossier, entitled “The Project” details a strategic plan whose ultimate goal is “the establishment of the reign of God over the entire world.” The document begins, “This report presents a global vision of an international strategy of Islamic policy.” It recommends to “study the centres of power locally and worldwide, and the possibilities of placing them under influence,” to contact and support new holy war movements anywhere in the world, to support holy war in Palestine, and “nurture the sentiment of rancour with regard to Jews.”

Evidence suggests that these various terrorist groups stem from a common focus, encouraged by surviving Nazis, with very clear aims:

1) Destruction of the Jews and the Jewish state of Israel
2) Conversion of the entire world to their religion

Neither of these aims is in anyway related to "American foreign policy in the middle east".

I'm inclined to suspect that entire notion is part of their mission to "study the centres of power locally and worldwide, and the possibilities of placing them under influence" and “nurture the sentiment of rancour with regard to Jews”.

The great sadness is, to a great degree, said muslims HAVE succeeded in their goal. In Bosnia muslims were thoroughly seen as victims despite being as bad as the Serbs. In Palestine/Israel action by Islamic terrorists is excused and Israeli action condemned.

There is widespread acceptance in the west that Islamic outrage against the west is entirely justified.

It's a horrific realisation. They're winning. And people making films like "Loose Change" are quite clearly aiding the ambitions of "The Project".

Okay I'm going to stop now... putting all this stuff together is starting to scare me...

-Andrew

[JamesB]

What about The Usual Suspects? I got a few interesting Muslim emails on that one (even though I didn't make it!) saying that it's offensive or AQ weren't "real" muslims.

Why is it offensive? We didn't say that stuff, the terrorists did. Now not only does the West have to watch what it says to avoid offending Muslims, it has to be careful to avoid reporting what Muslims themselves say?

And who cares whether they are "real" Muslims or not. Nobody argues whether Catholic priests who molest children are "real" Catholics. That is the way they are behaving. Nobody is arguing that everyone of that faith is acting that way.

[Pardalis]

Okay I'm going to stop now... putting all this stuff together is starting to scare me...

Let's not fall in the conspiracy theory trap. ;)

[gumboot]

Why is it offensive? We didn't say that stuff, the terrorists did. Now not only does the West have to watch what it says to avoid offending Muslims, it has to be careful to avoid reporting what Muslims themselves say?


I told you. They have gained control of our moral values. We're doomed.

-Andrew

[MarkyX]

Why is it offensive? We didn't say that stuff, the terrorists did. Now not only does the West have to watch what it says to avoid offending Muslims, it has to be careful to avoid reporting what Muslims themselves say?

And who cares whether they are "real" Muslims or not. Nobody argues whether Catholic priests who molest children are "real" Catholics. That is the way they are behaving. Nobody is arguing that everyone of that faith is acting that way.

THEY said it was offensive, not me.

But I am merely stating that people will get touchy either way. But you know what...too bad, history should not be blocked because someone else finds it 'offensive'

[MarkyX]

From the title, I would assume it looks a lot at the Muslim Brotherhood, which really began this all. It's really quite fascinating to look into the Muslim Brotherhood and see just how much they have influenced the current situation. It's also quite interesting to see the people involved in the various terrorist activities under the umbrella of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the connections to Nazi Germany.


BINGO. It is about the Muslim Brotherhood.

[steve s]

When they say "Theater distribution" rather than "Theatrical distribution" I think they've given themselves an out when it plays at the local Pantages, that has been a Bingo Hall for 25 years, but used to be a theater. . .

I got that same impression. I can't imagine a major studio (or even a significant indie studio) backing such nonsense. They'd be opening themselves up to possible litigation with all the unsubstantiated claims it makes. What multiplex would show it without the backing of a studio.

Done deal? He said that about the showing at the British parliament. To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I don't think "done deal" means what Dylan thinks it means.

Steve S.

[Pardalis]

THEY said it was offensive, not me.

But I am merely stating that people will get touchy either way. But you know what...too bad, history should not be blocked because someone else finds it 'offensive'

I agree we shouldn't be afraid to speak our minds, but it's also all about timing, and I mean this respectfully Marky, you got very bad timing.

Remember when you said nasty things about Quebecers, on June 24th? Well, the Middle East is literally on fire right now... Now is not the time.

ETA: Muslims are alot more touchy than Quebecers.

[SezMe]

There is widespread acceptance in the west that Islamic outrage against the west is entirely justified.
I don't agree. You have made a claim - can you substantiate it?

[gumboot]

I don't agree. You have made a claim - can you substantiate it?


Have you read the world section of a European newspaper in the last ten years?

-Andrew

[gumboot]

I agree we shouldn't be afraid to speak our minds, but it's also all about timing, and I mean this respectfully Marky, you got very bad timing.


I think we should call their bluff.

Remember how they reacted when a MUSLIM flushed his Koran (A Koran supplied by his western captors, nonetheless) down the toilet in a western prison? There were widespread riots. People DIED.

Such insanity is at such a peak, we really couldn't do any more damage.

I say we make a concerted thorough effort to offend them as much as we possibly can. Just to see what happens.

-Andrew

[JamesB]

THEY said it was offensive, not me.

But I am merely stating that people will get touchy either way. But you know what...too bad, history should not be blocked because someone else finds it 'offensive'

I know you didn't say that, but why did they say that?

[Pardalis]

I think we should call their bluff.

Remember how they reacted when a MUSLIM flushed his Koran (A Koran supplied by his western captors, nonetheless) down the toilet in a western prison? There were widespread riots. People DIED.

Such insanity is at such a peak, we really couldn't do any more damage.

I say we make a concerted thorough effort to offend them as much as we possibly can. Just to see what happens.

-Andrew

I have to disagree. It's because people die that we should use restraint and not aggravate them even more.:)

[SezMe]

Have you read the world section of a European newspaper in the last ten years?
Hmmm, you make a claim, I ask for some backing for that claim and your response is to ask me a question. Huh? :confused:

Your claim is important in this debate if it is true. So please provide some evidence for it. Thanks.

[SezMe]

I say we make a concerted thorough effort to offend them as much as we possibly can. Just to see what happens.
Do I understand your position correctly? The Middle East teeters on the brink of war. There is a religious fanatic in Iran funding terrorism throughout the region. Iraq is a mess. Afghanistan is slipping back into chaos. There are unsecured nuclear arms throughout the region with unprincipled fanatics anxious to get their hands on them.

And you want to poke the beehive "Just to see what happens"??????

This is a serious quesion: Are you serious?

[SezMe]

BTW, maybe this is getting us off topic. Should we do a split on this?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

As a friendly advice, I wouldn't do anything that could offend any Muslims these days. :)

Don't you find that a sign of something really wrong?

Compare this with me and Rikzillas exchange regarding my own religion. He said what was on his mind, I responded humorously and civilly, he laughed and no explosions resulted.

If an entire religion or culture is so chronically thin-skinned that you are afraid to say something that may annoy or offend around any of them, then I would suggest the problem is entirely thiers.

[gumboot]

Hmmm, you make a claim, I ask for some backing for that claim and your response is to ask me a question. Huh? :confused:

Your claim is important in this debate if it is true. So please provide some evidence for it. Thanks.


Sorry my question was rhetorical.

This line of progression is heading into political territory, which I understand is a big no-no. Also my original statement is an exaggeration, to put it lightly.

I am happy to withdraw my previous statement. :)

-Andrew

[karim]

What about The Usual Suspects? I got a few interesting Muslim emails on that one (even though I didn't make it!) saying that it's offensive or AQ weren't "real" muslims.


If they find Jihadi videos offensive they should complain to those who make them.

Mayby they should also complain to al Jazeera too for they have also aired these wills.

[gumboot]

Do I understand your position correctly? The Middle East teeters on the brink of war. There is a religious fanatic in Iran funding terrorism throughout the region. Iraq is a mess. Afghanistan is slipping back into chaos. There are unsecured nuclear arms throughout the region with unprincipled fanatics anxious to get their hands on them.

And you want to poke the beehive "Just to see what happens"??????

This is a serious quesion: Are you serious?


I don't have any specific desire. I just really don't care. The Middle East has teetered on the brink of war for the last three thousand years or so. They seem to like things that way. More power to them. Perhaps if we don't tiptoe around their religion like parents around a new-born baby they might actually grow up and stop behaving like children.

I'm tired of being told what is and isn't appropriate to say because a bunch of people on the other side of the world (a great deal of whom hate me on principal anyway) might get offended. I don't care if they get offended. That's their problem.

If they whip themselves into a frenzy and annihilate each other over some imagined offence, good riddance.

The ancestors of free western civilisation have not sacrificed their lives generation after generation to be told what they can and can't say.

I would think Americans would understand this better than anyone.

-Andrew

P.S. While we're on the topic of unsupported claims, most of the claims you made about the middle east are not supported by evidence.

[MarkyX]

If they find Jihadi videos offensive they should complain to those who make them.

Mayby they should also complain to al Jazeera too for they have also aired these wills.

Exactly. The main reasons why some of the Muslims were offended by the video, according to my emails, is it showed them in a negative light and that Muslims were a "religion of peace"

As for the video, I will post it because last night I showed it to an associate of mine and he was shocked that such an organization existed and even created the 'suicide bombing'. He is a muslim.

I have never even of the Brotherhood of Mulims either.

Thinking back, Loose Change did three claims about Osama Bin Laden tape being fake.

1) Blurry
2) Gold-plated ring
3) Writing with the right hand instead of left

First one we know is BS because if you watch the video that you can clearly see that it is him, just Loose Change doesn'ts how it. Gold-plated ring has been worn by other religious leader in the past, and the writing with right hand is NORMAL for a muslim.

Yet this is one of the main key "facts" of the Truth Movement. They are literally playing on the ignorance of the population and using that ignorance to go against the facts. Ignorance gained a following, just like astrology, psychics, and new-age churches...aren't we here to stop that?

I will post it today even if it might seem like bad timing, because people should have the opportunity to understand the situation in the Middle East more. And if there is one thing I learned throughout the 22 years I've been living in a western society, is you can't handle adult issues with kid gloves. Hell, I've been threatened already, might as well go all the way.

[karim]

First one we know is BS because if you watch the video that you can clearly see that it is him, just Loose Change doesn'ts how it.

I'm not sure but the LC clips look like they have had a sharpen effect or something like that applied. In addition it looks like they have just stretched the image to fit the widescreen resolution thus further distorting the features.

But I guess it was all part of truth seeking.

[mrfreeze]

I say post it, but that's just because I am really interested in seeing it. That, and I believe you live far enough away from me that if a group of angry muslims blow up your house I should be fine.

[MarkyX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD5RK2gE-o8 - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x41FXebG3eM - Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE2bCdpp27E - Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKuDuyFUOnc - Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY7ikmECWbU - Part 5

Uploading it now on Google Video.

[CurtC]

I think the whole subject of the reasons Muslims have to be mad at the West, whether they're justified, etc., is perfectly acceptable to debate on this board. However, not in this thread. Please start a new thread for that debate, and then add a link to it here for interested readers.

[Kiwiwriter]

Wow Kiwi! Looks like we are neighbors! What exit you at Bro'?

Really get torqued off by the idiots who spout off all the idiotic nonsense
like

United 175 (or no plane at all) hit South Tower (WTC2) - considering fact
that 50 coworkers on the upper floors of my building watched it smash
into the building (if you seen UNITED 93 the scene where air traffic controllers
at Newark watch the plane hit is dead accurate - we were at the BAYWAY
oil refinery in Linden, just south of Newark) My boss came down stairs
to tell us what happened - lot of my coworkers were (and still are) in shock
from what they saw.

Over at SCREW LOSE CHANGE forum have some whackjob - KILLTOWN is
handle who is going on about why tail of AA77 didn't leave mark on
Pentagon (jeez figure 100 foot hole blown in side would be enough!)

Also ranting that United 93 did not crash (if ever existed), but that hole was
dug and aircraft parts dumped in to make look like crash.

HAve fantasy of getting some of these clowns in room, tieing to chair and
saying "Now Repeat after me ....." while hitting upside of head with 2X4

But I digress.


I'm from the fine City of Newark, where I write press releases for the Mayor, as I have done for the past eight years. I am part of Cory Booker's inheritance from Sharpe James. So I'm at Exit 15W. I would have used the Turnpike shield as my logo for that reason, but I stumbled on "Shield Up," which enables you to make the road highway sign of your choice. I went with US 22, which you probably know quite well, for the obvious reason. That and the fact that it's Roger Clemens' number (my favorite pitcher) and it's an avatar that kind of stands out.

Back to nutters...one of my pals is a US Attorney in the Appellate Division, based and living in Washington. His boss is the Solicitor General. His boss's wife died on Flight 77. Flight 77 happened as advertised at the time. Like the terrorists who parked their truck under the smoke ventilating vents in the World Trade Center in 1993, these guys were very lucky...or unlucky for humanity.

[WildCat]

I'm from the fine City of Newark, where I write press releases for the Mayor, as I have done for the past eight years.
Aha, a government shill!


;)

[Kiwiwriter]

Aha, a government shill!


;)

The worst kind. Before that, I was Public Affairs Officer for the US Antarctic Program in Christchurch, New Zealand, explaining the US to 1.5 million New Zealanders.

When TWA Flight 800 crashed 10 years ago, I got heaps of calls and e-mails asking if the US Navy really did shoot down the plane. I said, "No, we only shoot down Iranian airliners by mistake, not our own."

It gets worse...I'm Jewish, and a third-degree Mason. The heart and soul of the grand conspiracy. So how come I don't have any money? :boggled:

[60hzxtl]

It gets worse...I'm Jewish, and a third-degree Mason. The heart and soul of the grand conspiracy. So how come I don't have any money? :boggled:



Pffft - It's the Black Pope - but after 4 years of HS then 4 yrs of college with the Jesuits, you'd have thought they'd have clued me in so I could have manipulated the stock market.

And I bet you are a trusty Shellback too - haven't seen them accused.

[CurtC]

I'm from the fine City of Newark, where I write press releases for the Mayor, as I have done for the past eight years.
kiwi, I'd like to recruit you to help with Gravy's next edition of the LC Viewer's Guide, if that would be OK with him.

Gravy has taken the initiative to put it together, is very tenacious, and has good research skills. But his current guide is not perfect - in my opinion, it's in dire need of the skills of a good editor. You, being the board's resident speech writer, seem like an ideal candidate for sanding off the rough edges. It would be great if you could contact Mark and offer your services.

[Gravy]

kiwi, I'd like to recruit you to help with Gravy's next edition of the LC Viewer's Guide, if that would be OK with him.

Gravy has taken the initiative to put it together, is very tenacious, and has good research skills. But his current guide is not perfect - in my opinion, it's in dire need of the skills of a good editor. You, being the board's resident speech writer, seem like an ideal candidate for sanding off the rough edges. It would be great if you could contact Mark and offer your services.

It's good advice. There are lots of changes I'd like to make, but I've put off doing a new version for a month and a half now due to the copyright issues. We'll see what the edited version of LC brings.

[Brainster]

I'll be on Constitutional Public Radio with Andrea Shea-King and Mark Vance tomorrow afternoon at 4:05 Eastern time. CPR is broadcast on AM 1510 WWBC, Brevard County, Florida. For those not lucky enough to live on Florida's Space Coast, you can listen in over the internet (http://www.1510wwbc.com/).

We'll be discussing Loose Change and Screw Loose Change. I have been on with Andrea and Mark before and they always keep it interesting and lively, so be sure to listen in!

Thanks to my buddy Third Wave Dave (http://thirdwavedave.blogspot.com/) for setting this up!

[JamesB]

I'll be on Constitutional Public Radio with Andrea Shea-King and Mark Vance tomorrow afternoon at 4:05 Eastern time. CPR is broadcast on AM 1510 WWBC, Brevard County, Florida. For those not lucky enough to live on Florida's Space Coast, you can listen in over the internet (http://www.1510wwbc.com/).

We'll be discussing Loose Change and Screw Loose Change. I have been on with Andrea and Mark before and they always keep it interesting and lively, so be sure to listen in!

Thanks to my buddy Third Wave Dave (http://thirdwavedave.blogspot.com/) for setting this up!

Hey, do I get to be a call-in guest? :)

[Gravy]

Go get 'em, Brainster.

In other news, more editing for Avery: (http://www.loosechange911.blogspot.com/)
To make a long story short, April wants the Jim Marrs quote removed, not because the information is necessarily inaccurate, but rather the light in which it is portrayed.

[Brainster]

Hey, do I get to be a call-in guest? :)

Dang, you know I was thinking I should ask if they wanted you to appear as well, but forgot. I don't know if they'll take calls during my segment--they didn't during my previous appearance on their show. You can participate by chatting here (http://askshow.com/)--just type in a name, city and state and submit query to enter the chat area.

[Regnad Kcin]

In other news, more editing for Avery: (http://www.loosechange911.blogspot.com/)She was told she worked in the most heavily protected building in the world, and yet, after both Towers had already been struck, for an additional 40 minutes NO ALARMS WERE SOUNDED.Is it possible to round up all this guy's former teachers and sue them for malpractice? Yes, even the gym coach.

[WildCat]

Anyone hear of this yet? Pierre Salinger Syndrome (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/12/twa.conspiracy/):

Bolstered by eyewitness accounts and the Internet, the explosion of TWA Flight 800 off the coast of New York 10 years ago spawned a slew of sinister conspiracy theories, most notably the belief that a missile from a U.S. Navy ship was responsible.

So prevalent were these theories that the term "Pierre Salinger Syndrome" -- the belief that everything on the Internet is true -- entered the lexicon.
Sound familiar?

[gumboot]

Gold-plated ring has been worn by other religious leader in the past,



Never mind the fact that the video is taken inside, with a tungsten light source, incorrectly colour-balanced, so yellow light would reflect off a silver piece of jewellery anyway.

I'm impressed that they can analyse the ring and identify what it is made of simply from a photograph. Experts have to actually have the ring, and make all sorts of tests.

-Andrew

[hellaeon]

I don't have any specific desire. I just really don't care. The Middle East has teetered on the brink of war for the last three thousand years or so. They seem to like things that way. More power to them. Perhaps if we don't tiptoe around their religion like parents around a new-born baby they might actually grow up and stop behaving like children.

I'm tired of being told what is and isn't appropriate to say because a bunch of people on the other side of the world (a great deal of whom hate me on principal anyway) might get offended. I don't care if they get offended. That's their problem.

If they whip themselves into a frenzy and annihilate each other over some imagined offence, good riddance.

The ancestors of free western civilisation have not sacrificed their lives generation after generation to be told what they can and can't say...

I think this is very well put. Blunt and to the point.
Religion is the scourge of creation.

[delphi_ote]

I'm tired of being told what is and isn't appropriate to say because a bunch of people on the other side of the world (a great deal of whom hate me on principal anyway) might get offended. I don't care if they get offended. That's their problem.

If they whip themselves into a frenzy and annihilate each other over some imagined offence, good riddance.

The ancestors of free western civilisation have not sacrificed their lives generation after generation to be told what they can and can't say.
How brave of you to take a stand half a world away. Finally, someone is with the courage to be rude and inconsiderate to a people they'll never have to interact with one on one! If more people were like you, I'm sure the world would be a safer and calmer place.

:rolleyes:

P.S. Please pay no attention to the fact that 40% of Lebanon is Christian or that Israel is mostly Jewish or that people of all nationalities are in the crossfire of this conflict or even that Canadians and civilians on both sides have been killed in the recent fighting over there. As long as Muslims are involved, who cares!?

[gumboot]

How brave of you to take a stand half a world away. Finally, someone is with the courage to be rude and inconsiderate to a people they'll never have to interact with one on one! If more people were like you, I'm sure the world would be a safer and calmer place.


New Zealand has a Provincial Reconstruction Team in Afghanistan (Kiwi Base (http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/nr/rdonlyres/f35cba5e-efeb-4cd9-b9de-aae462357268/0/ak06014863.jpg), Bamyan. If we still have a team there in 2 years when I qualify for overseas deployments I'll be doing everything I can to get over there.

By all reports the locals love the New Zealanders, and I look forward to the possibility of meeting them and learning more about their way of life and culture.

As for the ones having riots when the media scandalises some incident, we are talking about people who are offended that I am no a Muslim. Are you saying it is rude and inconsiderate of me not to worship Allah?




Please pay no attention to the fact that 40% of Lebanon is Christian or that Israel is mostly Jewish or that people of all nationalities are in the crossfire of this conflict or even that Canadians and civilians on both sides have been killed in the recent fighting over there. As long as Muslims are involved, who cares!?

And you believe the only reason this conflict exists is because westerns are rude and inconsiderate towards Muslims?

Their conflict exists because they hate each other. Plain and simple.

If I had to choose between being "acceptably" polite and considerate to these radicals (read: convert to their wild version of Islam) or civilians on both sides getting caught in the conflict and getting killed, guess which one I'm going to choose?

-Andrew

[Mr. Skinny]

Is it possible to round up all this guy's former teachers and sue them for malpractice? Yes, even the gym coach.
So, this woman worked in the Pentagon, and Dylan Avery finds it odd that no alarms were set off there until 40 minutes after the World Trade Center buildings were hit?

Holy crap!

*shakes head, drums fingers on desk, sighs heavily*

[gumboot]

So, this woman worked in the Pentagon, and Dylan Avery finds it odd that no alarms were set off there until 40 minutes after the World Trade Center buildings were hit?

Holy crap!

*shakes head, drums fingers on desk, sighs heavily*



Well, aside from the glaring fact that the Pentagon is hardly "the most defended building in the world", why would it be logical to set off alarms in an office building just because two other office buildings in entirely different cities were hit by airliners?

This makes no sense.

Bear in mind the Pentagon is the headquarters for the Department of Defence. It is an administrative building. The Operational Command Centre for Operation Enduring Freedom, for example, is in Florida.

Likewise North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD), United States Northern Command (USNORTHCOM), United States Strategic Command (USSACCOM), and Air Force Space Command (AFSPC) are all located at Cheyenne Mountain, in Colorado. United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) is based at MacDill AFB in Tampa, Florida.

Pacific Fleet Command for the USN is located at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.

There's no logical reason for the Pentagon to have any immediate reaction to a terrorist attack.

-Andrew

EDT. Sorry Mr Skinny, I just realised what you were saying. :p We are in agreement. *slaps head*

[Fronzel]

16 building controlled demolition. I think this shows the WTC was a CD with squibs loaded with explosives by the way the buildings all fall straight down.

planetvids.com/html/16-Building-Demolition.html

[gumboot]

16 building controlled demolition. I think this shows the WTC was a CD with squibs loaded with explosives by the way the buildings all fall straight down.



Do you know what a squib is and what they are primarily used for?

-Andrew

[Gravy]

So, this woman worked in the Pentagon, and Dylan Avery finds it odd that no alarms were set off there until 40 minutes after the World Trade Center buildings were hit?
That would also mean that no alarms went off at the Pentagon until five minutes after IT was hit.

[WildCat]

16 building controlled demolition. I think this shows the WTC was a CD with squibs loaded with explosives by the way the buildings all fall straight down.

planetvids.com/html/16-Building-Demolition.html
They didn't fall straight down, most fell over sideways. Probably because they were built in a seismic zone so had to withstand frequent earthquakes, plus they were nowhere near the size of the WTC. Cool video though.

[JamesB]

16 building controlled demolition. I think this shows the WTC was a CD with squibs loaded with explosives by the way the buildings all fall straight down.

planetvids.com/html/16-Building-Demolition.html


This amazing "straight down" thing cracks me up.

Gravity, it is not just a good idea, it is the law.

[WildCat]

This amazing "straight down" thing cracks me up.

Gravity, it is not just a good idea, it is the law.
Actually most of those buildings topple over like a tree, pretty cool to see!

[Regnad Kcin]

16 building controlled demolition. I think this shows the WTC was a CD with squibs loaded with explosives by the way the buildings all fall straight down.While it's generally considered good etiquette to introduce one's self when first posting to a forum, no worries.

In response to your post, you may "think" something "shows" something else. And in many cases you may be correct. However, this time you are not. Are you interested in knowing why that is?

Welcome to the forum.

[Gravy]

16 building controlled demolition. I think this shows the WTC was a CD with squibs loaded with explosives by the way the buildings all fall straight down.

planetvids.com/html/16-Building-Demolition.html
Welcome, Fronzel.
The video you linked to shows giant blasts of dust and debris shooting at high velocity from the bases of some concrete buildings, which then fall downwards, and then mostly fall to the side. Pretty typical for demolitons of this type, from what I've seen.

Please explain what in the world this has to do with the WTC.

[Pardalis]

16 building controlled demolition. I think this shows the WTC was a CD with squibs loaded with explosives by the way the buildings all fall straight down.

planetvids.com/html/16-Building-Demolition.html

Hello Fronzel. Do you say the the way towers collapsed it looked like a controlled demolition?

[Fronzel]

Sorry. Trying to be cute. Or failing to. Please don't ever take me serious.

I'm pretty sure the buildings fell straight down before the wind pushed them over. Or some weird pixelation was Bush's Q-Ray device knocking them down. I'm pretty sure in the world of the CT, they fall straight down. or straight downish.


>Please explain what in the world this has to do with the WTC.

A cool CD that shows that none of the 16 buildings fell the way they should, which is straight down. Maybe I'm not playing the game right. I thought unrelated evidence proved the official story we are being fed to be untrue.


>Do you know what a squib is and what they are primarily used for?

Yes. I blow things up for living. I guess that would be covered in my introduction thread I didn't start.

[WildCat]

Sorry. Trying to be cute. Or failing to. Please don't ever take me serious.

I'm pretty sure the buildings fell straight down before the wind pushed them over. Or some weird pixelation was Bush's Q-Ray device knocking them down. I'm pretty sure in the world of the CT, they fall straight down. or straight downish.


>Please explain what in the world this has to do with the WTC.

A cool CD that shows that none of the 16 buildings fell the way they should, which is straight down. Maybe I'm not playing the game right. I thought unrelated evidence proved the official story we are being fed to be untrue.


>Do you know what a squib is and what they are primarily used for?

Yes. I blow things up for living. I guess that would be covered in my introduction thread I didn't start.
Oh, welcome Fronzel! I'd love to blow things up for a living, do you need any help? :D

[Pardalis]

Are you here for a serious discussion Fronzel? Or is the murder of 3000 people just funny to you to joke around with?

[Gravy]

Abbyas being interviewed for a documentary on CTs this Saturday at Ground Zero. Not shown: multiple moonbats flitting in the background.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044ba21d93b495.jpg

Her confession, with kitten pic.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044bc498435a6d.jpg

[realitybites]

This amazing "straight down" thing cracks me up.

Gravity, it is not just a good idea, it is the law.
Every CD I've ever seen, the building lifts intact from its foundation, then flies around for a bit like a popped balloon. Usually it will end up back in its original location, but instead of crumbling into pieces, it scrunches down like an accordian and makes bag-pipe noises.

[realitybites]

Abbyas being interviewed for a documentary on CTs this Saturday at Ground Zero. Not shown: multiple moonbats flitting in the background.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044ba21d93b495.jpg

Her confession, with kitten pic.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044bc498435a6d.jpg
Grave... are we gonna have to put Abby in the Woo Protection Program now that her secret CIA identity is out?

GD it. ...It's like Valerie Plame all over again.

[DavidJames]

Every CD I've ever seen, the building lifts intact from its foundation, then flies around for a bit like a popped balloon. Usually it will end up back in its original location, but instead of crumbling into pieces, it scrunches down like an accordian and makes bag-pipe noises.:D

Video, I've got to see video of this.

[delphi_ote]

I look forward to the possibility of meeting them and learning more about their way of life and culture.
You're off to a really great start!
Their conflict exists because they hate each other. Plain and simple.

If they whip themselves into a frenzy and annihilate each other over some imagined offence, good riddance.
I'm tired of being told what is and isn't appropriate to say because a bunch of people on the other side of the world (a great deal of whom hate me on principal anyway) might get offended. I don't care if they get offended. That's their problem.
The Middle East has teetered on the brink of war for the last three thousand years or so. They seem to like things that way. More power to them.
I can just feel the sophisticated cultural understanding, especially with all the "they"s in there. Why bother making subtlie distinctions in a region like the Middle East?

[Childlike Empress]

Take these three: Francois Genoud (manager of Nazi funds stolen off Jews and primary financier of Odessa), Youssef Nada (experience with Nazi Intelligence in WW2 followed by activities with the Muslim Brotherhood's para-military wing) and Ahman Huber (devout Neo-Nazi and Swiss-born convert to radical Islam). These three were the primary founders of the Al Taqwa Bank - a bank that was a primary funder of terrorist groups until it was shut down by Swiss Authorities post 9/11.
Do you know Dave Emory? He has done a lot of research in this field, f.e. here (http://ftrsummary.blogspot.com/2006/07/ftr-556-update-on-911-and-related.html) and here (http://ftrsummary.blogspot.com/2004_05_20_ftrsummary_archive.html).
"For the Record" Archive (http://wfmu.org/playlists/DX).

You are right: It's really scary.

[realitybites]

:D

Video, I've got to see video of this.
What, you can't do your own research?!?! I've been searching on Google for years, buddy. Don't expect me to just spoon-feed you The Truth.

You're obviously a closed-minded government loyalist.

[JamesB]

It is obvious, the kitten did it.

[Gravy]

Do you know Dave Emory?
Yes, he's the most careful speller in the conspiracy biz.
C.E., you have weather-control connections. Can you talk to someone? It's a hundred freakin' degrees fahrenheit here.

[Bronze Dog]

Yes, he's the most careful speller in the conspiracy biz.
C.E., you have weather-control connections. Can you talk to someone? It's a hundred freakin' degrees fahrenheit here.
And down here, we got wind, lightning, and thunder. BUT NO [FRELL]ING RAIN!

[DavidJames]

What, you can't do your own research?!?! I've been searching on Google for years, buddy. Don't expect me to just spoon-feed you The Truth.

You're obviously a closed-minded government loyalist.yes, I'm unstable and a psycho to boot. :D

[Gravy]

And down here, we got wind, lightning, and thunder. BUT NO [FRELL]ING RAIN!
By "down here," do you mean Hell? That would explain the no rain thing.

[Childlike Empress]

Yes, he's the most careful speller in the conspiracy biz.
C.E., you have weather-control connections. Can you talk to someone? It's a hundred freakin' degrees fahrenheit here.
Be nice or else ... ;)

[Bronze Dog]

You're obvious (http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/06/doggerel-20-obvious.html)ly a closed-minded (http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/05/doggerel-4-closed-minded.html) government loyalist (http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/05/doggerel-3-youre-just-insert-evil.html).
Fixed. :D

[Bronze Dog]

By "down here," do you mean Hell? That would explain the no rain thing.
How'd you know I was in Texas?

[Gravy]

Be nice or else ... ;)
My brain is a bit heat-addled. I thought the Jews did 9/11, and now it turns out it's the Nazis who funded al Qaeda! I may have to move to a forum where people pick one conspiracy theory and stick to it, at least for the Summer.

[Gravy]

Fixed. :D
I like a man who knows his way around a link. Well taken, sir!

[Childlike Empress]

Speaking of scary stuff, Gravy: I want a good explanation for this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501938.html) or i'll send you a tsunami.

[Pardalis]

Childlike, you're really all over the place. Can you give me a clue of what the hell you are leading to?

[Gravy]

Speaking of scary stuff, Gravy: I want a good explanation for this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501938.html) or i'll send you a tsunami.
???
Are you sure you're ladling the right Gravy? I'm neither Swiss nor an impediment to them.

[delphi_ote]

Speaking of scary stuff, Gravy: I want a good explanation for this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501938.html) or i'll send you a tsunami.
The Justice Department is refusing to help a Swiss investigation into a Pakistani nuclear arms scientist selling weapons to the Libyan government?!

OMFG! The smoking gun! I see it all so clearly. Hitler funded Al Queda JOOS to do 9/11!!!

[Pardalis]

Childlike, could you give me a quick overview of your conspiracy? You know, like a "Childlike empress' theories for Dummies" if you like.

[delphi_ote]

Childlike, could you give me a quick overview of your conspiracy? You know, like a "Childlike empress' theories for Dummies" if you like.
Dude. Abdul Qadeer Khan. What more do you need?

[Childlike Empress]

Childlike, you're really all over the place. Can you give me a clue of what the hell you are leading to?
Yo sweetheart. How your doing? (I sound like Bush :eek:) What about taking that silly cap off and start thinking for yourself? I don't wanna lead you anywhere. Believe me.

[Pardalis]

What about taking that silly cap off

mmmh, sounds tempting... But I really don't have a clue where all the reading material you have posted so far are adding up to.

[Gravy]

Yo sweetheart. How your doing? (I sound like Bush :eek:) What about taking that silly cap off and start thinking for yourself? I don't wanna lead you anywhere. Believe me.
On my ignore list: AmyWilson, SBrown/Jennabell, Childlike Empress.

But I like women! I really do!

Well, the first two probably aren't women anyway. And I ain't sticking around to find out what's behind that sexy avatar, CE. So long.

[Brainster]

Abbyas being interviewed for a documentary on CTs this Saturday at Ground Zero. Not shown: multiple moonbats flitting in the background.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044ba21d93b495.jpg

Her confession, with kitten pic.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044bc498435a6d.jpg

I vote that if we need a TV representative, we nominate Abby! Me? I've got a face made for radio!

[Childlike Empress]

That's cool, Gravy. Boys and technical features. So cuuuute!

[Gravy]

I vote that if we need a TV representative, we nominate Abby! Me? I've got a face made for radio!
I was supposed to do a local TV show tomorrow but the other guest, a CT, won't face an opponent. And I was all ready with my wrestling singlet and folding chair...

[Brainster]

Are you here for a serious discussion Fronzel? Or is the murder of 3000 people just funny to you to joke around with?

Looks to me like he was joking about the Loosers and their "controlled demolition=straight down" theory. Although there was no real need to go straight down in this case--plenty of room between buildings and all the buildings were being destroyed anyway. Although I did wince at the announcer at the end saying that the last building had to be destroyed the old-fashioned way--with a bulldozer. Uh, no. Wrecking ball, maybe?

[Bronze Dog]

Wonder if CE'll post something about the price of beans in China, next.

[JamesB]

I vote that if we need a TV representative, we nominate Abby! Me? I've got a face made for radio!

And ironically you are going to be on the radio. Me, I have a face for radio, and a voice for the newspaper. :eye-poppi

[Pardalis]

Childlike, could you summarize in one simple narrative the plot of the 9/11 attacks as you see it, and give me a basic outline of the inter-connections between all of your said "nexus of financiers, organized crime, "intelligence", polititians and corporations". Otherwise all of this to me is as confusing as the 'Lord of the Rings'.

It would really be appreciated.

[hellaeon]

That's cool, Gravy. Boys and technical features. So cuuuute!

It is cute seeing LC admins scramble to ban everyone!

Lord of the rings eh Pardalis?...That could be the 'spiritual' name of loose change final spud or whatever its called.

A Lord of the ring dylan certainly is.

[Ducky]

They've banned all but two of my socks over there. Oh well.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Abbyas being interviewed for a documentary on CTs this Saturday at Ground Zero. Not shown: multiple moonbats flitting in the background.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044ba21d93b495.jpg

Her confession, with kitten pic.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044bc498435a6d.jpg

Hey! That's no 55 year old man!

Methinks Abby has been running her own disinfo campaign. :p

[gumboot]

Otherwise all of this to me is as confusing as the 'Lord of the Rings'.



Now, now, that's all very straight forward. The little short people have to throw the ring into the volcano or the big evil black man will kill everyone.

-Andrew

Edit. to fix quote

[Belz...]

16 building controlled demolition. I think this shows the WTC was a CD with squibs loaded with explosives by the way the buildings all fall straight down.

planetvids.com/html/16-Building-Demolition.html

When I look at the moon, I just see a large pie.

Prove me wrong.

[Belz...]

You're off to a really great start!


I can just feel the sophisticated cultural understanding, especially with all the "they"s in there. Why bother making subtlie distinctions in a region like the Middle East?

Yes, it's much easier to just lump'em all together.

[Belz...]

Yo sweetheart. How your doing? (I sound like Bush :eek:) What about taking that silly cap off and start thinking for yourself? I don't wanna lead you anywhere. Believe me.

How about answering his question, instead: what's your point ?

"If you don't know, then I won't tell you" doesn't cut it, here.

[chipmunk stew]

tee hee hee hee!
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8260

woo hoo hoo hoo!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2640053169768807392

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAA!!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983&q=alex+jones+dark

So "skeptics", perhaps now might be a good time to start formulating your excuse.... http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/thumbsup.gif
:dl:

The Alex Jones video is a hoot! (pun intended) If I had the know-how, I'd make a parody of it. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was already a parody.

[Orb]

A FINGER ON A MAP! IT'S SO CLEAR TO ME NOW!

Ahahahahahahahahaahahahah!!!!

[60hzxtl]

The Alex Jones video is a hoot! (pun intended) If I had the know-how, I'd make a parody of it. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was already a parody.


I played it, but this version is missing Tom Servo and Crow in the corner.

Hey, wait, wasn't there a Gypsy on MST3000?. . .

But on a serious note, the trooothers are an example of trying to organize anarchists. It can be done for a very, very, short time, then anarchy breaks out again. e.g. see Gypsy's defense of intentionally offending people and declaring it to be 'free speech', a certain loose cannon with a theory about obsolete gas tanks in Queens being the prototype for the CD of the WTC, the world controlled by a supersecret society that has annual meetings, and cant help leaving clooooos behind to show the world that they have an owl, (boogie -boogie) and a swastika that doesn't look like a swastika, etc.

Lets not forget the academics that have been in comas for years, only to emerge more enlightened, and self important professors who are trying to get tenure in the worst possible way, to assure themselves a job for life.

See how they deal with a legal cease and desist order (from the Naudet's) with threats, magical thinking, or pleas to ask the lawyers nice like, so's we can use that footage, but then you know that footage is staged, and the whole plot was caught, and exposed by 6-vote- Ray seein' a big ol' needle.

Like the CT'ers who cherry pick a single quote of event captured on video out of context, we need to keep the whole bushel basket of nuts and their whacked ideas together - not separate, and their 'experts' will fall by the wayside.

And Dylan will not go away, he's in too far now and his ego is stoked by the cash flow, and he's playing a role in his own fictional story, that he has told himself and now believes. He can be made a cartoon of himself, and less relevant.

et:typo

[Fronzel]

Are you here for a serious discussion Fronzel? Or is the murder of 3000 people just funny to you to joke around with?


Not at all.

But I have no problem heaping scorn on people that watch a plane crash into a building and the reason the building came down is a radio controlled holographic airplane fired a rocket into the building that was the cue for Bush's secret space laser to fire on the building to make it collapse and the tens of thousands of people involved are all keeping secret because they are gay Jewish Freemasons that set this plan in motion on May 12, 1452 B.C. and it is clear if you would do some hard research, and by hard research I mean typing random words in Google search.

I've got a friend that believes the holographic airplane theory and said the IO2 heliodisplay(io2technology.com) proves it true. And sadly, He doesn't understand the problems with his cunning plan.

[The_Fire]

As far as I understand that display system, there's nothing remotely in common with holographic projection.
A holographic projection doesn't use a screen while the io2technology.com products does. The only difference, as I see it, between an ordinary projection screen and the io2technology.com technology is that one can see the ordinary white projection screen while the io2technology.com's screen is see-through. It's still there.

ETA: Am I reading this wrong? Is there a projection screen or not?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The chicken coop arsonist is back with another "experiment".

Monday, July 17, 2006
A Challenge
1) Obtain the Microsoft Flight Simulator Software and install it.

2) Learn to fly a Cessna 172 prop plane (if you already are a pilot, you can skip this).

3) Download and install the Boeing 767 plug-in, and take-off from Boston Logan airport.

4) Navigate to Manhattan as fast and efficiently as possible, then accelerate to 540 mph-- and on your FIRST ATTEMPT, fly perfectly through the middle of lower Manhattan, where the WTC used to be.

5) Let me know if you succeed.

If you DO succeed, also try a run taking off from Washington Dulles with a Boeing 757, going west for an hour, then turn around, and navigate to the Pentagon and try the "Hani Hanjour maneuver" (a 270 degree turn at 500 mph, then level off and approach the Pentagon on a flat approach, only a few feet off the ground.

http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/2006/07/challenge.html

6) (The part "Spooked" left out because he can't think beyond what his religion will allow him) Run the mission again.... and again and again and again and again and again until you do it perfectly a dozen times in a row blindfolded with one hand.

Just like the terrorists themselves did.

[Shrinker]

As far as I understand that display system, there's nothing remotely in common with holographic projection.
A holographic projection doesn't use a screen while the io2technology.com products does. The only difference, as I see it, between an ordinary projection screen and the io2technology.com technology is that one can see the ordinary white projection screen while the io2technology.com's screen is see-through. It's still there.

ETA: Am I reading this wrong? Is there a projection screen or not?
Yep, the 'screen' is a vertical curtain of smoke or mist that's blown out of the top of the unit. The CTers who think this could somehow support their case have probably never seen one in action.

[The_Fire]

Oh, so THAT's what they mean with "compressed air". I thought they used some sort of clear plastic screen.
Still kind of cool and STILL not doable on a 747 impersonation like what supposedly happened at 9/11.....

[Belz...]

tee hee hee hee!
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8260

woo hoo hoo hoo!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2640053169768807392

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAA!!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983&q=alex+jones+dark


:dl:

The Alex Jones video is a hoot! (pun intended) If I had the know-how, I'd make a parody of it. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was already a parody.

Okay... that's... the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

[Shrinker]

Still kind of cool and STILL not doable on a 747 impersonation like what supposedly happened at 9/11.....

Not at all. It would make as much sense to claim they used giant LCD displays beside the towers. Actually more sense, since LCD's can have variable opacity.

[60hzxtl]

WHooooo - Press releases are facts with Dylan:

http://www.loosechange911.blogspot.com/

(diebold story)

I bet he believes advertising too!

[JamesB]

tee hee hee hee!
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8260

woo hoo hoo hoo!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2640053169768807392

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAA!!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983&q=alex+jones+dark


:dl:

The Alex Jones video is a hoot! (pun intended) If I had the know-how, I'd make a parody of it. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was already a parody.

Jason Bermas was talking about Bohemian Grove the other day. Apparently he has proof the Bush's attend and conduct occult rituals.

[Abbyas]

Abbyas being interviewed for a documentary on CTs this Saturday at Ground Zero. Not shown: multiple moonbats flitting in the background.


http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044ba21d93b495.jpg

Her confession, with kitten pic.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044bc498435a6d.jpg

Hey, that thing took me 20 minutes to make. With only a pair of left-handed scissors no less.

[Regnad Kcin]

Thanks for your work, Abby.

Oh, and I dig the avatar.

[JamesB]

;) Hey, that thing took me 20 minutes to make. With only a pair of left-handed scissors no less.

But your FBI file says you are right handed. You must be a fake!

[Belz...]

Hey, that thing took me 20 minutes to make. With only a pair of left-handed scissors no less.

Which one is you in the picture ?

[Abbyas]

Which one is you in the picture ?

The blond who looks drunk.

[kookbreaker]

Hey, that thing took me 20 minutes to make. With only a pair of left-handed scissors no less.

There's too much whitespace for that crazy-streetperson sign look!

But I guess that wasn't the look you wanted...

[realitybites]

The blond who looks is drunk.
There I fixed that for you.

You guys shoulda heard her slurrin'....

[Kiwiwriter]

Pffft - It's the Black Pope - but after 4 years of HS then 4 yrs of college with the Jesuits, you'd have thought they'd have clued me in so I could have manipulated the stock market.

And I bet you are a trusty Shellback too - haven't seen them accused.

I've crossed "the line" numerous times, but always by air...never actually served on a ship in the Navy. My rate was shore-intensive. That's changed since I got out.

[Regnad Kcin]

Incidentally, a new poster has joined the discussion, but in the Politics forum. His/her first entry:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1775689&postcount=36

It was pointed out that the topic is being covered here, in this thread. I offered a welcome as well.

[Kiwiwriter]

kiwi, I'd like to recruit you to help with Gravy's next edition of the LC Viewer's Guide, if that would be OK with him.

Gravy has taken the initiative to put it together, is very tenacious, and has good research skills. But his current guide is not perfect - in my opinion, it's in dire need of the skills of a good editor. You, being the board's resident speech writer, seem like an ideal candidate for sanding off the rough edges. It would be great if you could contact Mark and offer your services.

Sure...have him contact me off-list.

[CptColumbo]

Someone over at this forum: http://imdb.com/title/tt0312318/board/nest/14763923

Posted a defense of the PM article.

Then Someone linked to this: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/gopm/index.html

which "debunks" the PM article.

One of my favorite parts of the "debunking" was when they are shocked that they didn't take into account quotes from "unnamed" or "unidentified" sources.

[realitybites]

Now apparently the buildings were too weak (http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.1.html)to remain standing by themselves for another couple decades.

Since it would cost too much to repair them, they just brought them down instead.

With thermite/ate of course.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8334

[karim]

Does anyone remember a link to the 911 truth song that was a cover from Stings "every breath you take"... I might want to use it in a "film"

thank you

[60hzxtl]

Now apparently the buildings were too weak (http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.1.html)to remain standing by themselves for another couple decades.

Since it would cost too much to repair them, they just brought them down instead.

With thermite/ate of course.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8334


Uhhh, couldn't they have waited just a few minutes, to evacuate the buildings?



Just asking questions.

[realitybites]

Does anyone remember a link to the 911 truth song that was a cover from Stings "every breath you take"... I might want to use it in a "film"

thank you

Here ya' go (http://www.denythepain.com/mp3/911%20EVERY%20BREATH%20YOU%20TAKE.mp3).

[DavidJames]

Now apparently the buildings were too weak (http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.1.html)to remain standing by themselves for another couple decades.

Since it would cost too much to repair them, they just brought them down instead.

With thermite/ate of course.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8334Ah, the good old days when I could actual get to the loser site.

[karim]

Here ya' go (http://www.denythepain.com/mp3/911%20EVERY%20BREATH%20YOU%20TAKE.mp3).

wow that was fast

merci beaucoup

[NDBoston]

You might exact the normal CT idiots calling into the SLC radio interview today.

Dylan Avery himself just posted the info on the radio show. He thought about calling him himself , but decided not to.

He's mad that the SLC folks went after his girlfriend. I guess it's ok to make fun of the hostages on the planes with the box cutters but HANDS OFF the girlfriend.

Sorry no link, I'm still too new, but it's in the main area of the Loose Change forum.

[60hzxtl]

Sorry no link, I'm still too new, but it's in the main area of the Loose Change forum.


Allow me:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356

Dylan uses his girlfriend as an excuse and avoids calling. More important stuff to do you know,

Like filling out the Errors and Omissions (insurance) policy for his distributor. . .

Anyone know WHERE his girlfriend is refered to, or is it only in the Vanity Fair article?

[Regnad Kcin]

You might exact the normal CT idiots calling into the SLC radio interview today.

Dylan Avery himself just posted the info on the radio show. He thought about calling him himself , but decided not to.

He's mad that the SLC folks went after his girlfriend. I guess it's ok to make fun of the hostages on the planes with the box cutters but HANDS OFF the girlfriend.

Sorry no link, I'm still too new, but it's in the main area of the Loose Change forum.That's strange. I don't understand why anyone would bring someone's girlfriend into the picture. If she's not germane to the discussion, that is. Otherwise it's poor manners, neve mind such a move can only cause alienation.

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

[realitybites]

You might exact the normal CT idiots calling into the SLC radio interview today.

Dylan Avery himself just posted the info on the radio show. He thought about calling him himself , but decided not to.

He's mad that the SLC folks went after his girlfriend. I guess it's ok to make fun of the hostages on the planes with the box cutters but HANDS OFF the girlfriend.

Sorry no link, I'm still too new, but it's in the main area of the Loose Change forum.
I'm a fairly regular reader over there at SLC and usually keep up with the comments over there. I don't recall anything about Avery's girl anywhere.

Could be wrong, but I'd love to know what he's referring to.

[azazal]

I'm a fairly regular reader over there at SLC and usually keep up with the comments over there. I don't recall anything about Avery's girl anywhere.

Could be wrong, but I'd love to know what he's referring to.

The voices in his head? :D

[JamesB]

Allow me:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356

Dylan uses his girlfriend as an excuse and avoids calling. More important stuff to do you know,

Like filling out the Errors and Omissions (insurance) policy for his distributor. . .

Anyone know WHERE his girlfriend is refered to, or is it only in the Vanity Fair article?

She is shown in the Vanity Fair article. She comes off as a bit of a Loose Change groupie. Neither Pat nor I ever mentioned her, although I think she was mentioned in the comments.

In February, after watching Loose Change, Samantha Woodhouse, 21, quit paramedic school in Corning, New York, to be near Avery. "She tracked me down," Avery says with a shrug. Now she's his girlfriend and his secretary too.

I found it ironic that he referred to how rude we were, as opposed to the civility of the Loosers. They were the ones after all, who were bragging about how their fans were making threatening phone calls to a law firm.

[kookbreaker]

Well, 911conspiracysmasher has posted some less than kind photos of women and refers to them as 'CT'er girlfriends'. Nothing was ever said about any of them being Dylan's gf, however.

[JamesB]

Another comment on that Loose Change thread:

I definitely think that you should call in Dylan. There is no better way to have a debate as having the actual people responsible debating.

Someone should post then and ask why they refuse to debate Gravy.

[azazal]

In February, after watching Loose Change, Samantha Woodhouse, 21, quit paramedic school in Corning, New York, to be near Avery. "She tracked me down," Avery says with a shrug. Now she's his girlfriend and his secretary too

Dosn't that kinda of define a stalker? Wonder what the fallout will be when the break-up happens

[dubfan]

OMFG SKEPTICS MAKE TEH BIG TIME!!1111

Brainster from Screw Loose Change is on the radio now.

http://www.1510wwbc.com/

[Belz...]

The blond who looks drunk.

... nice. ;)

[Belz...]

Now apparently the buildings were too weak (http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.1.html)to remain standing by themselves for another couple decades.

Since it would cost too much to repair them, they just brought them down instead.

With thermite/ate of course.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8334

Making such accusations makes him liable for slander, doesn't it ?

[dubfan]

OMFG SKEPTICS MAKE TEH BIG TIME!!1111

Brainster from Screw Loose Change is on the radio now.

http://www.1510wwbc.com/

Oops, I spoke too soon. Brainster's not on until the 4PM hour (EDT).

[60hzxtl]

Oops, I spoke too soon. Brainster's not on until the 4PM hour (EDT).


I think you can now apply for the Randi $1M prize. . .

And this :

"She tracked me down," Avery says with a shrug. Now she's his girlfriend . . .

I would think he's in more trouble for the shrug. . .

[Class]

Allow me:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356

Dylan uses his girlfriend as an excuse and avoids calling. More important stuff to do you know,

Like filling out the Errors and Omissions (insurance) policy for his distributor. . .

Anyone know WHERE his girlfriend is refered to, or is it only in the Vanity Fair article?
There are pictures of her on his myspace.

[DavidJames]

tee hee hee hee!
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8260

woo hoo hoo hoo!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2640053169768807392

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAA!!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983&q=alex+jones+dark


:dl:

The Alex Jones video is a hoot! (pun intended) If I had the know-how, I'd make a parody of it. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was already a parody.I finally got to read that LC thread. Yikes! Their meds clearly aren't helping.

[PopeTom]

In all the discussions I have seen on 9/11 CT I can not recall ever seeing anyone mention linear thermal expansion.


\Delta L = \alpha L_i \Delta T


So, excuse me if this ground has been covered, and if not feel free to check my math, I'm just a guy w/ free time at work :)

Assuming:

Average NYC September temperature - 20 c
WTC Truss - 10.7 m long
Temperature on floors where fire burned - 1000 c
Linear Expansion Value of steel - 1.24e10^-^5

So:


\Delta L = 1.24 e 10^-^5 * 10.7 * (1000 -20)


Which works out to:

\Delta L = 13 cm (5.11 inches)


Now I am not an engineer by a long shot, and then a couple of short skips, but wouldn't structural supports expanding by 5 inches in the time between initial impact of the planes and the collapse of the towers be a bad thing?

The above is just for the trusses at the ends of the central core, the trusses to the sides of the core were 18.2m long which would have resulted in expansion of 22 cm (8.6 inches).

Does the above seem reasonable, or better correct?

-PopeTom

[realitybites]

Whatever you're doing Brainster, keep it up.

You're infuriating the woo (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356).

(Oh... after the interview, there will be a man dressed in a black suit waiting outside by what appears to be a teleportation device. He has your check.)

[rwguinn]

In all the discussions I have seen on 9/11 CT I can not recall ever seeing anyone mention linear thermal expansion.

http://www.randi.org/latexrender/latex.php?/pp\Delta L = \alpha L_i \Delta T/pp

So, excuse me if this ground has been covered, and if not feel free to check my math, I'm just a guy w/ free time at work :)

Assuming:

Average NYC September temperature - http://www.randi.org/latexrender/latex.php?20 c
WTC Truss - http://www.randi.org/latexrender/latex.php?10.7 m long
Temperature on floors where fire burned - http://www.randi.org/latexrender/latex.php?1000 c
Linear Expansion Value of steel - http://www.randi.org/latexrender/latex.php?1.24e10^-^5

So:

http://www.randi.org/latexrender/latex.php?/pp\Delta L = 1.24 e 10^-^5 * 10.7 * (1000 -20)/pp

Which works out to:
http://www.randi.org/latexrender/latex.php?/pp\Delta L = 13 cm (5.11 inches)/pp

Now I am not an engineer by a long shot, and then a couple of short skips, but wouldn't structural supports expanding by 5 inches in the time between initial impact of the planes and the collapse of the towers be a bad thing?

The above is just for the trusses at the ends of the central core, the trusses to the sides of the core were 18.2m long which would have resulted in expansion of 22 cm (8.6 inches).

Does the above seem reasonable, or better correct?

-PopeTom

Pretty darn close--I went through that early in LC1 thread; it was discussed a bit, and got lost in the circular argument process the CT bunch goes through (They wait till they think you have forgotten about an argument, then bring it up again, round and round--it's their method of recycling anf brow-beating)

[Gravy]

In all the discussions I have seen on 9/11 CT I can not recall ever seeing anyone mention linear thermal expansion.
Does the above seem reasonable, or better correct?

-PopeTom
That's assuming the steel reached a uniform temperature of 1000 c, correct? I don't know that we can make that assumption.

eta: Also, because of the resistance of the core and outer columns, and the weight of the floor and its contents, the expansion results in sagging, which results in pulling the columns, rather than pushing.

[The_Fire]

That's assuming the steel reached a uniform temperature of 1000 c, correct? I don't know that we can make that assumption.

I think that was not possible under the given circumstances.
To do that the steel would have to be evenly heated, but in the fire of the WTC the heating process would be uneven, and while the heat of the metal would be seeking out cooler areas of the metal due to conducting, a buckle of the hottest place would be more likely before the rest of the steel would reach 1000 c like that.

[Brainster]

Whatever you're doing Brainster, keep it up.

You're infuriating the woo (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356).

(Oh... after the interview, there will be a man dressed in a black suit waiting outside by what appears to be a teleportation device. He has your check.)

Wow, that was terrific! I didn't expect them to give me a full hour. Thanks to all the folks who showed up in the chatroom to offer support. The show will be rebroadcast tonight from 9-11 Eastern here (http://www.1510wwbc.com/). Unfortunately, none of the Loosers was able to get permission from their mommy to call in. ;)

[Mr. Skinny]

Post 2426 by Pope Tom
I haven't checked your calculations, but I'll agree thermal expansion would occur. As for the overall expansion: Wouldn't you have to account for the fact that the steel was becoming increasingly plastic, and therefore, bending under the loads?

That would decrease the amount of purely horizontal or vertical expansion in the structural members, at least to my way of thinking. Horizontal members would droop and vertical members might twist and bulge, rather than simply "grow" in one direction or the other.

[Gravy]

Wow, that was terrific! I didn't expect them to give me a full hour. Thanks to all the folks who showed up in the chatroom to offer support. The show will be rebroadcast tonight from 9-11 Eastern here (http://www.1510wwbc.com/). Unfortunately, none of the Loosers was able to get permission from their mommy to call in. ;)
Excellent, excellent job, Brainster. You were, like, you know man, very articulate.

[JamesB]

Good job Brainster.

Where do these people learn how to spell? Geez...

ANYBODY WATCH SCRUE LUSE CHANGE? I HAVE......IT IS REDICULOUS...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356&st=30

Some other amusing comments:

And what a total load of JUNK listening....

SCREW...screwloosechange
Screw Loose Change is laughable.

f*ck Screw Loose Change. It saddens me to see people are too closed minded to accept the truth.

[The_Fire]

Good job Brainster.

Where do these people learn how to spell? Geez...



http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356&st=30

Some other amusing comments:

AFAIR, you people in the US pay for your education directly, right? Well, this gives a whole new spin to the danish proverb "Getting a refund of your school money.".....

[rwguinn]

That's assuming the steel reached a uniform temperature of 1000 c, correct? I don't know that we can make that assumption.

eta: Also, because of the resistance of the core and outer columns, and the weight of the floor and its contents, the expansion results in sagging, which results in pulling the columns, rather than pushing.

It's not sagging--it's buckling. For a beam, that is a bad thing.
Actually, the uneven heating makes things worse--the beams/collumns bend.
And resistance to elongation causes the stress levels to go up rapidly--to failure. One classic engineering example (usually on a CE201 test) puts a steel I-beam between 2 immovable barriers and heats it up. At what temperature does it fail.
That is an amazingly low temperature....

[60hzxtl]

AFAIR, you people in the US pay for your education directly, right? Well, this gives a whole new spin to the danish proverb "Getting a refund of your school money.".....


Actually, you are provided with a free education from the government up to college.

So much for the efficiency of the US gov't as far as pulling off a conspiracy!

[PopeTom]

That's assuming the steel reached a uniform temperature of 1000 c, correct? I don't know that we can make that assumption.

eta: Also, because of the resistance of the core and outer columns, and the weight of the floor and its contents, the expansion results in sagging, which results in pulling the columns, rather than pushing.

I agree that the steel almost certainly didn't uniformly reach a temperature of 1000 c. But, like I said, I had not seen the concept of thermal expansion put forth before. But, if one were to take into consideration the expansion of even unevenly heated metal in the conditions of floors damaged by the impacts, along with the weakening of exposed steel by those same fire, plus the weight of the floors above the damage zone, all of which would lead to buckling. Then combine the buckling with the expanded trusses and it seems obvious that the bolts that hold them to the major supporting structures would likely fail. And we all know what comes next.

I am just a layman when it comes to this stuff, but I can at least do math and use the Internet to get my own 'raw data'. Which makes me wonder, if I can figure this stuff out with the help of net resources, of which the JREF boards are one, then how do the CTer just keep going?

Are they bad at math, do they not like to read, does and Internet search that started as a look for facts just end up as browsing for porn?

-PT

[PopeTom]

I haven't checked your calculations, but I'll agree thermal expansion would occur. As for the overall expansion: Wouldn't you have to account for the fact that the steel was becoming increasingly plastic, and therefore, bending under the loads?

That would decrease the amount of purely horizontal or vertical expansion in the structural members, at least to my way of thinking. Horizontal members would droop and vertical members might twist and bulge, rather than simply "grow" in one direction or the other.

Part of my thinking was that expansion had to go somewhere and it wasn't going to go through the outer walls or into the core, so it probably contributed to the buckling of the trusses.

-PopeTom

[JamesB]

OK, I know it is cruel and pointless to make fun of these people, but this has to be the funniest Loose Change forum post out there. Someone count the number of different ways he spells "flouride". Not to mention, "pattern recognisation" and "that led to the epithany"

just after reading the wiki fluridation link i went to brush my teeth and then i remembered theres flauride in toothpaste becuase i could taste it in my baking soda toothpaste- i quickly spat and washed my mouth out, looked at the toothpaste tube and saw there was 1100 ppm of flauride in it.

i read on the fluride action network only a fraction of this number in drinking water is sufficient to create certain neurological deficiencies and cognitive effects and pattern recognisation problems- i was stressed all day today as i was wondering why sometime i lose my memory in a day- and that led to the epithany.



so is the flauride directly making us more susceptable to propaganda in america- the re doesnt seem to be this huge 9/11 denial in other countries as extensive as in america-
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8039

Update: OK, I guess dubfan was already on that thread. I am always a day late and a dollar short. But it is still funny...

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Good job Brainster.

Where do these people learn how to spell? Geez...



http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356&st=30

Some other amusing comments:

It seems their main rebuttal to the radio show was "it's disinfo!". :rolleyes:

[Stellafane]

...It saddens me to see people are too closed minded to accept the truth.

The main problem with CT'ers is that they mistake having an open mind with having an incontinent one.

[Mr. Skinny]

Part of my thinking was that expansion had to go somewhere and it wasn't going to go through the outer walls or into the core, so it probably contributed to the buckling of the trusses.

-PopeTom
Appears we are in general agreement then, Tom.

[Apollyon]

In all the discussions I have seen on 9/11 CT I can not recall ever seeing anyone mention linear thermal expansion.


\Delta L = \alpha L_i \Delta T


So, excuse me if this ground has been covered, and if not feel free to check my math, I'm just a guy w/ free time at work :)

Assuming:

Average NYC September temperature - 20 c
WTC Truss - 10.7 m long
Temperature on floors where fire burned - 1000 c
Linear Expansion Value of steel - 1.24e10^-^5

So:


\Delta L = 1.24 e 10^-^5 * 10.7 * (1000 -20)


Which works out to:

\Delta L = 13 cm (5.11 inches)


Now I am not an engineer by a long shot, and then a couple of short skips, but wouldn't structural supports expanding by 5 inches in the time between initial impact of the planes and the collapse of the towers be a bad thing?

The above is just for the trusses at the ends of the central core, the trusses to the sides of the core were 18.2m long which would have resulted in expansion of 22 cm (8.6 inches).

Does the above seem reasonable, or better correct?

-PopeTom
I've seen some of the WTC papers discuss the loading that would occur from thermal expansion. Your basic calculation looks correct, but the numbers may not be. A 1000c number would imply that the temperature would average 1000c across the entire truss to produce the expansion since it's highly unlikely an entire truss would uniformly be 1000c. It's also likely, since the fires were localized, that many structural members had some fairly significant variations in heat. What you'd really need to do is look at something like the NIST report to see the estimated heat ranges and apply that heat to specific structural members in each location. It would get hairy to do that with any confidence, particularly since the temperatures were basically a guesstimate.

As Mr. Skinny also noted, the deformation of the steel would have come into play, particularly with the floor trusses. The trusses sagging from the heat and loading the angle clips likely would have had more impact than the thermal expansion. That's not to say thermal expansion wouldn't have been an influencing factor in the dynamic structural loading. The question is how much of a factor it was.

[realitybites]

OK, I know it is cruel and pointless to make fun of these people, but this has to be the funniest Loose Change forum post out there. Someone count the number of different ways he spells "flouride". Not to mention, "pattern recognisation" and "that led to the epithany"


http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8039

Update: OK, I guess dubfan was already on that thread. I am always a day late and a dollar short. But it is still funny...
I think it's one of the great tragedies of this world that being a CTer must go hand in hand with having poor dental hygiene.

A moment of silence for this poor man's molars....

[Mr. Skinny]

I've seen some of the WTC papers discuss the loading that would occur from thermal expansion. Your basic calculation looks correct, but the numbers may not be. A 1000c number would imply that the temperature would average 1000c across the entire truss to produce the expansion since it's highly unlikely an entire truss would uniformly be 1000c. It's also likely, since the fires were localized, that many structural members had some fairly significant variations in heat. What you'd really need to do is look at something like the NIST report to see the estimated heat ranges and apply that heat to specific structural members in each location. It would get hairy to do that with any confidence, particularly since the temperatures were basically a guesstimate.
(snip)

I don't think Pope Tom was trying to imply that 1000c was the temp. across the entire truss/beam. I took it that he was merely picking a reasonable average temperature. I'd like to believe he understood that ahead of time, Apollyon.

Anyhow, what do you mean by the phrase "since the fires were localized"? Seems to me the temps wouldn't be too localized when an airliner slams into a building (though admittedly, there would be hot spots). If you could explain a bit further, I'd appreciate it.

[Apollyon]

I don't think Pope Tom was trying to imply that 1000c was the temp. across the entire truss/beam. I took it that he was merely picking a reasonable average temperature. I'd like to believe he understood that ahead of time, Apollyon.
It's very likely he did, but my literalist, anal self could help addressing it anyway. :D

Anyhow, what do you mean by the phrase "since the fires were localized"? Seems to me the temps wouldn't be too localized when an airliner slams into a building (though admittedly, there would be hot spots). If you could explain a bit further, I'd appreciate it.
That what I meant by localized - localized hot spots.

[Mr. Skinny]

It's very likely he did, but my literalist, anal self could help addressing it anyway. :D


That what I meant by localized - localized hot spots.
OK, but even with a localized hot spot, an average temperature still exists.

And I appreciate the literalist, anal, you, but I wanna think Pope Tom was just doing "back of the envelope" kinda calcs. :D

Thanks for the response.

[PopeTom]

I don't think Pope Tom was trying to imply that 1000c was the temp. across the entire truss/beam. I took it that he was merely picking a reasonable average temperature. I'd like to believe he understood that ahead of time, Apollyon.


Basically yes.
From page 22 here (http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtc-report/WTC_ch2.pdf):


The modeling suggests a peak total rate of fire energy output on the order of 3–5 trillion Btu/hr,
around 1–1.5 gigawatts (GW), for each of the two towers. From one third to one half of this energy flowed
out of the structures. This vented energy was the force that drove the external smoke plume. The vented
energy and accompanying smoke from both towers combined into a single plume. The energy output from
each of the two buildings is similar to the power output of a commercial power generating station. The
modeling also suggests ceiling gas temperatures of 1,000 °C (1,800 °F), with an estimated confidence of plus
or minus 100 °C (200 °F) or about 900–1,100 °C (1,600–2,000 °F). A major portion of the uncertainty in
these estimates is due to the scarcity of data regarding the initial conditions within the building and how the
aircraft impact changed the geometry and fuel loading. Temperatures may have been as high as 900–1,100
°C (1,700–2,000 °F) in some areas and 400–800 °C (800–1,500 °F) in others.


1000 c just seemed like a good number to work with though working out numbers for the lower temperatures would be easy too. But since the difference between NY's lowest temp. in 33 years (-18 c) and highest in 33 years (40 c) is quite small compared to the temperature shift that occurred during the attack (from 20 c to 400c at the low end) I would think it would have some effect on the events of that day.

-PopeTom

[PopeTom]

OK, but even with a localized hot spot, an average temperature still exists.

And I appreciate the literalist, anal, you, but I wanna think Pope Tom was just doing "back of the envelope" kinda calcs. :D

Thanks for the response.

More like Post It Notes strewn out all over my work area and several browser windows open calculations. Trying to work my way up to just needing the envelop.

:)

-PopeTom

[Apollyon]

OK, but even with a localized hot spot, an average temperature still exists.
I don't question that.

However, with localized hot spots you will also have localized thermal expansion. Variances in thermal expansion would tend to create localized structural loading variances as well that would affect the entire building. As temperatures changed in local areas of the building, and heat conductance came into play in the structural steel, the loads would have to be fairly dynamic.

And I appreciate the literalist, anal, you, but I wanna think Pope Tom was just doing "back of the envelope" kinda calcs. :D

Thanks for the response.
The literalist, anal me comes out when discussing this subject since I've found that if one is not very explicit a CT will gladly take the comment and misinterpret or misrepresent it.

[Brainster]

Excellent, excellent job, Brainster. You were, like, you know man, very articulate.

:) I still need to work on my ums and uhs--unless I'm concentrating hard on that I say them way too frequently. The CIA should train me better!

[SRW]

:) I still need to work on my ums and uhs--unless I'm concentrating hard on that I say them way too frequently. The CIA should train me better!

Listening now, I understand why you did not get to many callers, the host told the CT'ers to get the pencils to take down the number-- what was he thinking, he should have said Crayons...

[delphi_ote]

Uhhh, couldn't they have waited just a few minutes, to evacuate the buildings?



Just asking questions.
Everyone is looking at me for the loud laughing this post caused.

[60hzxtl]

Everyone is looking at me for the loud laughing this post caused.


You?

I'm the sarcastic s-o-b that put that up!

Or, do you mean because you started this thread 3 stages ago?

Did I thank you for that lately?

Ohhhh, there I go, asking questions again.

[MarkyX]

Good news, the fellow who gave me the History Channel special on Muslim Brotherhood recently sent me one the 9/11 Hijackers Hamburg Cell (the one Atta was in).

Real eye opener, uploading it tomorrow on YouTube. Google Video will probably deny it though (despite other history channel videos they have).

[Pardalis]

Good news, the fellow who gave me the History Channel special on Muslim Brotherhood recently sent me one the 9/11 Hijackers Hamburg Cell (the one Atta was in).

Real eye opener, uploading it tomorrow on YouTube. Google Video will probably deny it though (despite other history channel videos they have).

Whenever I see the words "video" and "eye opener" in the same sentence, I get a rash.

[Brainster]

Cynthia McKinney, the first congressperson to voice 9-11 truthiness, looks like she may be getting a surprise retirement (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/15070231.htm).

Democratic firebrand Rep. Cynthia McKinney started preparing Wednesday for a surprise runoff with former DeKalb County Commissioner Hank Johnson, who has deep roots in the heart of her core constitency.

With 99 percent of the precincts reporting, McKinney finished with 47 percent of the vote to Johnson's 45 percent.

"We've been here before, but you know what? It is impossible to keep a good woman down," McKinney told cheering supporters, shortly after dancing and playing a tambourine.

Dylan Avery claimed in Oakland that McKinney was the only member of congress who's see his film. As you probably recall, McKinney expressed some 9-11 truthiness in 2002, and was turned out of office in favor of Denise Majette. Unfortunately, Majette decided to try to run for the Senate in 2004, letting McKinney back into her old seat.

McKinney has had some controversy already this year, assaulting a Capitol Police officer who accosted her when she failed to wear her congressional pin while bypassing a security checkpoint. But there's no doubt that most political observers are stunned by her failure to avoid the runoff; nobody thought she was in danger.

The article does not fail to mention her CT qualities:

McKinney was largely criticized for questioning the Bush administration's advance knowledge of the Sept. 11 attacks, claiming the president allowed them to happen so his friends could profit from the bloodshed.

Not trying to draw politics or Republicans/Democrats into the discussion here. Whoever wins the Democratic primary will win the general election, so there's no potential for this district to matter in terms of control of the House. But it would be nice for there to be one less CT nutbar in Congress.

[Shrinker]

Some spectacular logic from Killtown on his blog, following up from his ordnance blast photos. His comparison did actually make me wonder why the mushroom cloud seemed cut off from the ground, and looked less like a burning fuel fire.

I don't have to worry about it now though, because now he's proved the photo is a fake! Why? Because it looks like the photo is looking out towards where the engine crased, not the plane. And also, it looks a bit photoshopped.

So that's two ways to take the heat off the official story, yet somehow it proves a govt conspiracy!

http://killtown.blogspot.com/

[Belz...]

It's not sagging--it's buckling. For a beam, that is a bad thing.
Actually, the uneven heating makes things worse--the beams/collumns bend.
And resistance to elongation causes the stress levels to go up rapidly--to failure. One classic engineering example (usually on a CE201 test) puts a steel I-beam between 2 immovable barriers and heats it up. At what temperature does it fail.
That is an amazingly low temperature....

Do you have an actual figure for that temperature ?

[Belz...]

It seems their main rebuttal to the radio show was "it's disinfo!". :rolleyes:

Well, it IS the easiest answer: unfalsifiable, fits with your circular conclusion, etc.

[chipmunk stew]

tee hee hee hee!
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8260

woo hoo hoo hoo!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2640053169768807392

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAA!!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983&q=alex+jones+dark


:dl:

The Alex Jones video is a hoot! (pun intended) If I had the know-how, I'd make a parody of it. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was already a parody.BTW, the British journalist in the Alex Jones video is Jon Ronson ( http://www.jonronson.com/ ) who wrote Them: Adventures with Extremists. For anyone who hasn't read him, you're missing out. In Them, Ronson writes about his adventure to Bohemian Grove with Jones (among other exploits)--great reading!

I wonder if Ronson is aware of any of our efforts? I'm going to contact him.
http://www.jonronson.com/email.html
jon@jonronson.com (jon@jonronson.com)

[Shrinker]

BTW, the British journalist in the Alex Jones video is Jon Ronson ( http://www.jonronson.com/ ) who wrote Them: Adventures with Extremists. For anyone who hasn't read him, you're missing out. In Them, Ronson writes about his adventure to Bohemian Grove with Jones (among other exploits)--great reading!

I wonder if Ronson is aware of any of our efforts? I'm going to contact him.
http://www.jonronson.com/email.html
jon@jonronson.com (jon@jonronson.com)
Jon Ronson makes amazing TV. I was also thinking he'd be the perfect person to document the 9/11 truth movement. I do hope he takes an interest.

[Gravy]

Some spectacular logic from Killtown on his blog, following up from his ordnance blast photos. His comparison did actually make me wonder why the mushroom cloud seemed cut off from the ground, and looked less like a burning fuel fire.

I don't have to worry about it now though, because now he's proved the photo is a fake! Why? Because it looks like the photo is looking out towards where the engine crased, not the plane. And also, it looks a bit photoshopped.

So that's two ways to take the heat off the official story, yet somehow it proves a govt conspiracy!

http://killtown.blogspot.com/

Keep in mind that that mushroom cloud is hundreds of feet in the air. Someone posted this crash video/mushroom cloud on his blog:
B-52 crash Fairchild Air Show 1994. No ordnance on board.

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/B-52%20Crash.mpg
Here are some quotes from flight 93 eyewitnesses:
"There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud." http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/100028703529429109.xml
Eric Peterson, 28, was working in his shop in the Somerset County village of Lambertsville yesterday morning when he heard a plane, looked up and saw one fly over unusually low.
The plane continued on beyond a nearby hill, then dropped out of sight behind a tree line. As it did so, Peterson said it seemed to be turning end-over-end.
Then Peterson said he saw a fireball, heard an explosion and saw a mushroom cloud of smoke rise into the sky. http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010912crashnat2p2.asp

[chipmunk stew]

Jon Ronson makes amazing TV. I was also thinking he'd be the perfect person to document the 9/11 truth movement. I do hope he takes an interest.Apparently he already has :):
It is very funny you should email me about this. I'm getting into a
right old battle with the 9/11 Truth Campaign people at the moment.
Have a look at this...

www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=11201#11201

Let me have a think about your very interesting idea...

Jon
I asked him to review some of the brilliant output of our members, suggesting that he contact some of our heavy-hitters, and expressed hope that he'd lend his weight to our efforts.

[chipmunk stew]

Apparently he already has :):

I asked him to review some of the brilliant output of our members, suggesting that he contact some of our heavy-hitters, and expressed hope that he'd lend his weight to our efforts.In the meantime, what do you say we lend our weight to Ronson at http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=11201#11201 Ninja Wave style? Who's in?

[rwguinn]

Do you have an actual figure for that temperature ?

It is a function of beam length, area, and shape. As was pointed out, a heated steel (or any metal) beam gets longer. Under normal, Room temperature environment, it would take a force to do that. By resisting the elongation, that force is kept within the beam, as is the resulting stress. Yield in A36 steel is about 36000psi at 70 degrees F. At 1000 degrees C, it is about 10000psi. At that point, the beam bends and/or buckles.
If you want an example, I can give one later--can't take time right now, but will this evening.

[Belz...]

It is a function of beam length, area, and shape. As was pointed out, a heated steel (or any metal) beam gets longer. Under normal, Room temperature environment, it would take a force to do that. By resisting the elongation, that force is kept within the beam, as is the resulting stress. Yield in A36 steel is about 36000psi at 70 degrees F. At 1000 degrees C, it is about 10000psi. At that point, the beam bends and/or buckles.
If you want an example, I can give one later--can't take time right now, but will this evening.

Oh, it's quite okay. I just wanted an example like the one you provided above.

Thanks.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Whatever you're doing Brainster, keep it up.

You're infuriating the woo (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356).

(Oh... after the interview, there will be a man dressed in a black suit waiting outside by what appears to be a teleportation device. He has your check.)

After reading LondonEye's response in that thread I'd like to suggest that Brainster change his title from "Thinker" to "Blatant Disinfo Guy".

[Kent1]

Here is another example of Kevin Barrett....at first I didn't think it was real.


Subject: The Difference You Are Making

Dear Kevin,

Over the last 19 months, when you could have walked away, you dusted yourself off, got back on your feet, dug deeper, and you have fought even harder.

[it goes on like this and finishes:]

Thanks so much for all of your help, energy and commitment. I'm proud of what you do, and I hope I live up to your values and convictions in the way I fight by your side.

Sincerely,

John Kerry

Kevin Barrett Replies to John Kerry,

Subject: The Difference You Are NOT Making

Dear John,

You, my “war-hero” friend, are a feckless yellow-bellied WIMP. 19 months ago, when you could have walked away...you did! You let the Bush crime family and their 9/11 perp friends the neocons steal the election you won in a landslide 53%-47%. If you had the slightest shred of guts or integrity, you could have had us all out in the streets taking back the country. Instead, you tucked your tail between your legs and fled like the coward you are. Unless, of course, the two candidates from Skull and Bones had the whole thing fixed in advance. Either way, it appears that masturbating in a coffin in front of your sick Yalie frat buddies doesn't do much for your intestinal fortitude. As far as I'm concerned, you're history. But hey, prove me wrong. Get onboard with 9/11 truth NOW or condemn yourself to historical irrelevance.

Sincerely,

Kevin Barrett

http://www.mujca.com/masterplan.htm

[chipmunk stew]

Here's a form of protest I've never seen considered before:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8352&view=findpost&p=6137162

:eek:

I hope they actually do it.

[gumboot]

Get onboard with 9/11 truth NOW or condemn yourself to historical irrelevance.


Wow... nothing like an imperative command complete with a threat to motivate people to claim back those values like freedom and democracy that have been taken away...

:rolleyes:

-Andrew

[Hellbound]

Is it just me, or was the guy actually saying he would have preferred a civil war?

[chipmunk stew]

Is it just me, or was the guy actually saying he would have preferred a civil war?Sure sounds it.
And "masturbating in a coffin"? WTF?

[gumboot]

Is it just me, or was the guy actually saying he would have preferred a civil war?


He's certainly opposed to masturbating in coffins, which is a blow to my weekend of recreation...:eye-poppi

-Andrew

ETA. Chipmunk bet me to it... :)

[Kiwiwriter]

Masturbating in a coffin.

Pooping on the White House lawn.

The intelligence, civility, and maturity of these conspiracy theories are about equal to their grasp of the truth. 15-year-olds, at any age, are still 15-year-olds.

This is why I find myself agreeing with George Orwell...humans are incapable of meeting the demands of their history. We believe conspiracy theories instead of hard facts...we know all about Pamela Anderson's sex life, but don't understand how the Taliban came to be. It's ridiculous. :boggled:

[Hellbound]

...we know all about Pamela Anderson's sex life, but don't understand how the Taliban came to be. It's ridiculous. :boggled:

So you're saying the two are related?

:D

[DavidJames]

Here is another example of Kevin Barrett....at first I didn't think it was real.


Subject: The Difference You Are Making

Dear Kevin,

Over the last 19 months, when you could have walked away, you dusted yourself off, got back on your feet, dug deeper, and you have fought even harder.

[it goes on like this and finishes:]

Thanks so much for all of your help, energy and commitment. I'm proud of what you do, and I hope I live up to your values and convictions in the way I fight by your side.

Sincerely,

John Kerry

Kevin Barrett Replies to John Kerry,

Subject: The Difference You Are NOT Making

Dear John,

You, my “war-hero” friend, are a feckless yellow-bellied WIMP. 19 months ago, when you could have walked away...you did! You let the Bush crime family and their 9/11 perp friends the neocons steal the election you won in a landslide 53%-47%. If you had the slightest shred of guts or integrity, you could have had us all out in the streets taking back the country. Instead, you tucked your tail between your legs and fled like the coward you are. Unless, of course, the two candidates from Skull and Bones had the whole thing fixed in advance. Either way, it appears that masturbating in a coffin in front of your sick Yalie frat buddies doesn't do much for your intestinal fortitude. As far as I'm concerned, you're history. But hey, prove me wrong. Get onboard with 9/11 truth NOW or condemn yourself to historical irrelevance.

Sincerely,

Kevin Barrett

http://www.mujca.com/masterplan.htmCombining this with the letter he sent Fox about BOR (seen on Avery's BLOG), this guy is starting to make Ward Churchill look like a Neocon.

[MarkyX]

9/11 Hijackers: Inside the Hamburg Cell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZGK_GR1nm0 - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvpJUVI07Ik - Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIP21rqvP-o - Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz0S4Vwzb5c - Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frU6X5FyS7g - Part 5

Another document sent to me. Apparently my new contact has a lot of history channel documents, so I can literally ask for almost anything. I think this document destroys the whole "no hijackers" theory.

Having clout is so much fun.

[60hzxtl]

It's working:


From Miragememories
"If you ever wonder how the Screw Loose Change and similar sites get such a strong following, one reason becomes clearly apparent when doing a Google search.
Yesterday, I had to use a substitute computer and I forgot the url for the Loose Change Forums.
I figured it should be easy enough to locate by just doing a Google search under "Loose Change".
What I got was 64,200,00 hits. Lots of sites for acquiring the film but nada directing me to this forum site
I imagine many people who see the film become anxious to take action and want to locate others of similar feeling. Unfortunately searching with Google is going to place them in the path of JREF and Screw Loose Change people as well as other skeptic sites, long before they encounter Loose Change support forums."


See for yourself here:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8356&st=30


To bad facts get in the way of the Troooooth.

Or my favorite line out there - "Dylan is that you?"

[JamesB]

Cynthia McKinney, the first congressperson to voice 9-11 truthiness, looks like she may be getting a surprise retirement (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/15070231.htm).



Dylan Avery claimed in Oakland that McKinney was the only member of congress who's see his film. As you probably recall, McKinney expressed some 9-11 truthiness in 2002, and was turned out of office in favor of Denise Majette. Unfortunately, Majette decided to try to run for the Senate in 2004, letting McKinney back into her old seat.

McKinney has had some controversy already this year, assaulting a Capitol Police officer who accosted her when she failed to wear her congressional pin while bypassing a security checkpoint. But there's no doubt that most political observers are stunned by her failure to avoid the runoff; nobody thought she was in danger.

The article does not fail to mention her CT qualities:



Not trying to draw politics or Republicans/Democrats into the discussion here. Whoever wins the Democratic primary will win the general election, so there's no potential for this district to matter in terms of control of the House. But it would be nice for there to be one less CT nutbar in Congress.


She was robbed!

Just got this in my in-box, thought I'd pass it along...

###

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 18, 2006

Contact: Jocco Baccus
678-520-2088

DIEBOLD ELECTRONIC MACHINES MALFUNCTION, VOTE FOR OTHER CANDIDATE

(Decatur) After one hour of voting, the McKinney campaign has received numerous calls that the voting machines are malfunctioning. Voters casting votes for McKinney are reportedly having their votes switched by the machines for Hank Johnson. This is not a new problem with Diebold machines. Lawyers for the campaign have been alerted and said that if this situation is not corrected, Cynthia McKinney for Congress will be forced to take additional measures.

###
posted by dylan avery at 9:50 AM



http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/07/ohio.html

[The_Fire]

In the meantime, what do you say we lend our weight to Ronson at http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=11201#11201 Ninja Wave style? Who's in?

The flying ninja and local pervert awaiting activation email.....

[Belz...]

Here's a form of protest I've never seen considered before:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8352&view=findpost&p=6137162

:eek:

I hope they actually do it.

Is there ANY low to which they won't stoop ?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

In the meantime, what do you say we lend our weight to Ronson at http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=11201#11201 Ninja Wave style? Who's in?

No can do. It appears they have banned the cjb.net domain, which is a mail alias site I use for most web stuff that requires an email addy. I may use my yahoo email if y'all have confidence in their handling of email addys.

[kookbreaker]

Is there ANY low to which they won't stoop ?

"we went poopies on their lawn, hyuk hyuk!"

Seriously, do they think that this is going to do anything but mean a lot of unsanitary, dirty work for working class fellows that they claim to be championing?

[60hzxtl]

"we went poopies on their lawn, hyuk hyuk!"

Seriously, do they think that this is going to do anything but mean a lot of unsanitary, dirty work for working class fellows that they claim to be championing?


But, but, but that's Dylan's CULT !

[JamesB]

Oh God, it was bad enough when they were debating physics, now they are into currency exchange. I think we have found the ultimate contrarian financial strategy, whatever the Loosers recommend, do the opposite.

Something odd is happening with the Euro/Dollar exchange rate. Oil is going up, and yet the Dollar is also going up. MSM says this is due to the Isreali-Lebanon war, but that seems odd to me. Oil should go up - but the Dollar then should go down.

Is there some funny trading going on using the Isreali attack as cover?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8402

[60hzxtl]

Economics?

Try this one:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8397

Yeah kids, stay away, you might catch cancer!

[Abbyas]

Something odd is happening with the Euro/Dollar exchange rate. Oil is going up, and yet the Dollar is also going up. MSM says this is due to the Isreali-Lebanon war, but that seems odd to me. Oil should go up - but the Dollar then should go down.

Is there some funny trading going on using the Isreali attack as cover?

That is the thinking that makes economists puke.

[Brainster]

Oh God, it was bad enough when they were debating physics, now they are into currency exchange. I think we have found the ultimate contrarian financial strategy, whatever the Loosers recommend, do the opposite.



http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8402

There is an awful lot of concentrated stupidity in that thread. Seabhcan apparently thinks currency exchange boils down to oil prices. In fact, a far bigger factor is the level of interest rates. And anyway, the dollar is at a cyclical low against the Euro which means that it will probably rise over the next few years. Those who are not used to looking at economics tend to think everything moves in a straight line; in fact a sine wave is far more common.

[Abbyas]

I actually saw a CTer make the claim that before the Fed, inflation didn't exist.

[Stellafane]

Is there ANY low to which they won't stoop ?

...or squat?

I actually hope they do it. It would make the perfect image for the Twoof Movement: spoiled, obscene little children defecating on public property.

[JamesB]

I actually saw a CTer make the claim that before the Fed, inflation didn't exist.

The fed is secretly involved in their illuminati/jewish bankers/bohemian grove conspiracy theories in how a secret cabal runs the world. The most amusing one I saw was when someone pointed out (correctly) that the fed holds a couple of hundred billion dollars in treasuries. The fed uses this to regulate money supply and keep inflation in check (called the Federal Open Market Committee). It is true, being the central bank, they essentially create money by buying and selling bonds.

Anyway this Looser insisted that these secret banking cabals just create all the money they want to buy bonds and then pocket the billions in interest.

No. If they did this inflation would skyrocket and Ben Bernanke would be called in front of the Senate rather harshly. They maintain the money supply in keeping with the principles of the fed, which are economic growth and low inflation, any interest paid on the bonds, in excess of the cost of running the fed, is refunded to the US treasury, to the tune of tens of billions a year.

OK, that is the end of my finance lecture for today. For hot stock tips, please send a check or money order for $99.95 to...

[chipmunk stew]

Jon Ronson's documentary of David Icke's trip to Canada is illustrative of how not to counter a conspiracist:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2912878405399014351&q=david+icke+lizards+jews+ronson

The moral of the story: Make no attempt to limit their exposure. Stick to their claims.

[Gravy]

Ugh. Daniel Ellsberg is a CT advocate?

http://www.911blogger.com/2006/07/daniel-ellsberg-comes-out-for-911.html

In an interview with Jack Blood on the Alex Jones show (about a fourth of the way through the audio) , Ellsberg said engineering 9/11 would not be beyond the scope of this regime. Ellsberg also said that -- while he finds some of the theories a bit out there -- a good half he finds very plausible, and says there needs to be a major new investigation with subpoenas.

"Very serious questions have been raised about what they knew beforehand and what the involvement might have been", said Ellsberg.

He also said that the next Reichstag incident in the U.S. -- or an American attack on Iran -- will wipe out the bill of rights, usher in a police state and leave a lot of dissenters and Arabs in America in detainment camps.

edited to fix link

[NDBoston]

duplicate

[JamesB]

Ugh. Daniel Ellsberg is a CT advocate?

http://www.911blogger.com/2006/07/daniel-ellsberg-comes-out-for-911.ht ml

Where they will be eliminated with Jim Fetzer's Chinese made guillotines...

[Apollyon]

Where they will be eliminated with Jim Fetzer's Chinese made guillotines...
Is that the kind of guillotine where you chop off a head and half an hour later you are bloodthirsty again?

[Gravy]

Is that the kind of guillotine where you chop off a head and half an hour later you are bloodthirsty again?
:duck:

[JamesB]

Is that the kind of guillotine where you chop off a head and half an hour later you are bloodthirsty again?

Yeah, and you can get them at WalMart for $24.63 each.