Loose Change - Part III

[DavidJames]

He did. Check Gravy's guide for where in the first LC thread that is.
ETA: Found it. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102&page=63
I know it's been refuted (note no CT tags)

But when asked directly, he didn't deny it. Obviously a slip a slip of the tongue or a secret message

note CT tags

[CptColumbo]

I know it's been refuted (note no CT tags)

But when asked directly, he didn't deny it. Obviously a slip a slip of the tongue or a secret message

note CT tags

I see you joined in September, 2001.

[DavidJames]

Obviously, he's flying today...

...or will claim to be. Look for him to say he's connecting tonight from a computer in some other city because he's "working".After my post I did see he posted a couple of times in the "normal" forums. Now I just saw a post in the skeptics forum. Perhaps he was in therapy. ;)

[DavidJames]

I see you joined in September, 2001.

damn, you guys are good :D

[apathoid]

After my post I did see he posted a couple of times in the "normal" forums. Now I just saw a post in the skeptics forum. Perhaps he was in therapy. ;)

I love that when confronted with his posting habits, he suddenly changes his story to "I never said I was a working pilot". Yeah, thats believable. All laid-off pilots sit in front of their computers 24X7, watching Alex Jones flicks....

How many consecutive days has he hit the 100 post mark, DavidJames??
8? 9? :rolleyes:

[DavidJames]

I love that when confronted with his posting habits, he suddenly changes his story to "I never said I was a working pilot". Yeah, thats believable. All laid-off pilots sit in front of their computers 24X7, watching Alex Jones flicks....

How many consecutive days has he hit the 100 post mark, DavidJames??
8? 9? :rolleyes:I stopped counting :D But when I was, he was around 150/day with some days exceeding that

[kookbreaker]

Look its TEH CONSPIRACY!! (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20060710/ts_nm/usa_explosion_dc_7) The NEO-KONS obviously want to bring down Manhatten 1 building at a time.

'Natural Gas' explosion. yah right. lol lol lol! Everyone knowz that Gas burns it dozent explode. Oterwise I could blow up my parents house with the stove lol lol!!



Hmmm

[/ct]

Errr

[/ct] [/ct] [/ct]

Shoot. Its stuck again.

[apathoid]

I stopped counting :D But when I was, he was around 150/day with some days exceeding that

Yeah and the goofball had the nerve to antagonize others for posting on a Saturday. I think he was insinuating that only shills would post on the weekend, or something to that effect. Whatever he was trying to say blew up in his face as usual.

I notice he is using the "s" word more and more....maybe its time to have a little fun with him ;)

[realitybites]

And whatever happened to johndoe? He usually has 80 posts by this time of the day.

I think I heard some reports that Cheney, having tracked JD down through his Linksys router, barged in to his mom's basement. Allegedly, the noise from the forced entry caused JohnDoe to jump and spill his KoolAid all over his keyboard.

He then hopped in his Cessna and flew to the nearest BestBuy to pick up another one, but got sidetracked in the store. ChuckSheen had recently been there, hijacking all the widescreen and hi-def televisions with Alex Jones' latest blockbuster.

Can't confirm any of this. Again... just something I heard.

[apathoid]

'Natural Gas' explosion. yah right. lol lol lol! Everyone knowz that Gas burns it dozent explode. Oterwise I could blow up my parents house with the stove lol lol!!

[/ct]

Hmmm

[/ct]

Errr

[/ct] [/ct] [/ct]

Shoot. Its stuck again.

Wow. I hope everyone got out of the building in time.

I'd bet good money that at least one CT will claim that this is a government psy-ops ploy to show people that "You see, fires CAN cause buildings to collapse, its perfectly normal!" or some mutation of that line of thinking.

This should be fun to watch at the LC boards for awhile.

[Mancman]

And whatever happened to johndoe? He usually has 80 posts by this time of the day.

He was getting a bit close to the truth, so some CIA agents were sent to nullify the threat. It's rare that they have to take such action, but they were faced with such intellectual might they had no choice!

[DavidJames]

I think I heard some reports that Cheney, having tracked JD down through his Linksys router, barged in to his mom's basement. Allegedly, the noise from the forced entry caused JohnDoe to jump and spill his KoolAid all over his keyboard.

He then hopped in his Cessna and flew to the nearest BestBuy to pick up another one, but got sidetracked in the store. ChuckSheen had recently been there, hijacking all the widescreen and hi-def televisions with Alex Jones' latest blockbuster.

Can't confirm any of this. Again... just something I heard.Sounds very plausible.

Let's see the hive at JREF prove it wrong.

[DavidJames]

He was getting a bit close to the truth, so some CIA agents were sent to nullify the threat. It's rare that they have to take such action, but they were faced with such intellectual might they had no choice!Yours is a good backup theory. We'll keep it in our back pockets in case the basement/koolaid theory falls apart.

[Class]

The government is practicing for another 9/11. Remember how Controlled Demolition, Inc. blew up those two large oil tanks in NY a few months prior or 9/11? This was obviously practice for a larger attack.

We cannot sit idly by as our government blows up buildings to further their new world order.

[Pardalis]

The government is practicing for another 9/11. Remember how Controlled Demolition, Inc. blew up those two large oil tanks in NY a few months prior or 9/11? This was obviously practice for a larger attack.

We cannot sit idly by as our government blows up buildings to further their new world order.


You forgot the "CTers tags"

[aggle-rithm]

The government is practicing for another 9/11. Remember how Controlled Demolition, Inc. blew up those two large oil tanks in NY a few months prior or 9/11? This was obviously practice for a larger attack.

We cannot sit idly by as our government blows up buildings to further their new world order.

I won't be idle. I'll be watching television.

[Brainster]

Mark Mohan must be CIA (http://www.oregonlive.com/movies/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/1152042929287910.xml&coll=7):

These are all assertions made in Dylan Avery's pseudo-documentary "Loose Change," which selectively uses images and news footage relating to 9/11 to back up its outlandish hypotheses. It's the kind of conspiracy theorizing that gives genuine investigative journalism a bad name, and it provides ample cause for administration supporters to tar any skeptics with the same brush of lunacy.

This is America: Dylan Avery is free to make his film, the Clinton Street Theater and Brewpub is free to show it and you're free to go see it. But I'm also free to recommend that afterward you go online and look up one of the many independent Web sites that do the laborious job of fact-checking Avery's work: The result isn't pretty.

[DavidJames]

deadspace (govt shill, CIA agent? ;)) resurrected a thread about an email exchange between Michael Shermer and Killtown. In it Killtown says "I'm not a "theorist,"

Killtown is not a CT! He is the loose change chief kook and bottle washer

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509

And whatever happened to johndoe? He usually has 80 posts by this time of the day.
Turns out Shermer is a fraud :eek:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509

[Carnivore]

Turns out Shermer is a fraud :eek:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509

Oh. My. God.

My favourite line (if "favourite" is the right word):


chucksheen saidTruthseekers don't have the burden of proof.

[Class]

You forgot the "CTers tags"
Woops. :o

Well I am sure someone out there believes it.

[Pardalis]

Oh. My. God.

My favourite line (if "favourite" is the right word):


chucksheen said
Truthseekers don't have the burden of proof.

Of course they don't, it's like the Creationists: they can't prove it, so why bother?

[MarkyX]

Mark Mohan must be CIA (http://www.oregonlive.com/movies/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/1152042929287910.xml&coll=7):

http://home.comcast.net/~phantomlord13666/pwned.jpg

[Class]

Oh. My. God.

My favourite line (if "favourite" is the right word):


chucksheen said
I am so using that as my signature on LC.

[Axiom_Blade]

Turns out Shermer is a fraud :eek:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509

Oh, man...I just lost some respect for Shermer.


He has an account on AOL?
Sheesh.

[Axiom_Blade]

Oh. My. God.

My favourite line (if "favourite" is the right word):


chucksheen said

That one pretty much sums things up, but read further down and you get this:
Just like Flight 77, we don't know what happened to Edvard Munch's famous painting The Scream, after it was stolen from the Munch Museum in August 2004.

Just like Flight 77, we don't know what happened to the great British racehorse Shergar, after he was kidnipped in February 1983.

So, I guess, just like Flight 77, The Scream and Shergar must have crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11, right?


MY HEAD ASPLODE.

[MarkyX]

We do what happened with Flight 77 though..

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

And people in the US honestly wonder why we don't compete as well in science/tech as Japan, Germany, etc... *mutter*

[Hutch]

Could I get a little math help here.

I'm trying to do a little basic physics on how the wings of the airliners could 'smash' through the steel outerworks of the WTC. I've set up a mathematical question here:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7735

But I don't have the smarts to follow through (I will try to look up the wing info today).

If anyone can crunch the numbers (show your work), I'll post it over there with proper attributes.

[chipmunk stew]

got a brief timeout for implying that Michael Shermer regards Killtown as an "annoying moonbat (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509&view=findpost&p=5959558)". But I was in the middle of writing a reply on another thread. Would someone kindly post this:

Please re-read this post:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7707&view=findpost&p=5959208

When I say I believe it to a high degree of confidence less than 100%, that's coming from a skeptical viewpoint. You should be aware before you regard it as a wide opening or a fence-sitting position that I also believe in the theory of gravity to a high degree of confidence less than 100%. (In practical terms, my faith in gravity may as well be 100%, but technically it's slightly less.) That's not to say that my confidence in the 19 hijackers theory approaches my confidence in the theory of gravity, but it's very high nonetheless.

And to be clear, I don't argue the government's side. I argue the evidence's side.

My understanding of what happened on 9/11 is constantly shifting, but it never comes close to the Inside Job theory. I've read much more on the subjects you listed than I'd have cared to if 9/11 weren't such a personal topic. I don't see the dots connecting the way many of these authors do. I don't think many of these authors appreciate just how complex and unpredictable the world is. They imagine a fantastic level of control over the most micromanaged details of virtually every major world event or long-term trend.

There is no pre-determined Plan. Only a complex and often chaotic interaction of competing agendas.

in reply to this (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7707&view=findpost&p=5959573)?

[azazal]

Could I get a little math help here.

I'm trying to do a little basic physics on how the wings of the airliners could 'smash' through the steel outerworks of the WTC. I've set up a mathematical question here:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7735

But I don't have the smarts to follow through (I will try to look up the wing info today).

If anyone can crunch the numbers (show your work), I'll post it over there with proper attributes.


HUtch, let me dig through the old LC threads, I know I had the impact energy of the planes calculated in there some where. Just need to find my earlier math, then figure out the surface area of the plane wings and go from there.

[realitybites]

got a brief timeout for implying that Michael Shermer regards Killtown as an "annoying moonbat (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509&view=findpost&p=5959558)". But I was in the middle of writing a reply on another thread. Would someone kindly post this:



in reply to this (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7707&view=findpost&p=5959573)?
Done.

[DavidJames]

got a brief timeout for implying that Michael Shermer regards Killtown as an "annoying moonbat (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509&view=findpost&p=5959558)".and yet the annoying asinine moonbats can call those who don't drink the koolaid whatever the heck they want.

[chipmunk stew]

Done.Thank you. :)

[Belz...]

Truthseekers don't have the burden of proof.

Of course not. Otherwise they may have to do some real work, for a change.

[DavidJames]

Actually, Loony, you sort of answered that yourself. Mo, like me, BELIEVES 100% that it was self inflicted. Mo, like me, also does not know in detail how they did it. If you see a bank robber crawl into the window of a bank and exit with a million in cash, you know he robbed the bank. But you don't know how he got the vault open, how he avoided tripping the alarm, etc.great analogy except, of course, for the part about actually seeing the robber crawl into and exit a window.

A better analogy would be, it's like hearing a bank was robbed and blaming it on Uncle George because you don't like him.

[MarkyX]

and yet the annoying asinine moonbats can call those who don't drink the koolaid whatever the heck they want.

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/5430/export8ix.gif

Oh yeah, I went there ;)

[realitybites]

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/5430/export8ix.gif

Oh yeah, I went there ;)
Uncanny!

[Pardalis]

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/5430/export8ix.gif

Oh yeah, I went there ;)

You win a Godwin point Marky!

[MarkyX]

I wonder what the Loosers or Dylan Avery will say.

Pissing off these idiots is so much fun.

[Pardalis]

I wonder what the Loosers or Dylan Avery will say.

Pissing off these idiots is so much fun.

Probably a ban, for insulting their "leader"... Which ever one.;)

[MarkyX]

Probably a ban, for insulting their "leader"... Which ever one.;)

I'm already banned.

[chipmunk stew]

and yet the annoying asinine moonbats can call those who don't drink the koolaid whatever the heck they want.Well, I shouldn't blame the snake when it bites... I just couldn't help myself.

[Hutch]

I'm already banned.

I'd post the link, but I rather get banned on my own accord rather than commit sucide--but I'm sure chuck or jenabell will link it..

[DavidJames]

Well, I shouldn't blame the snake when it bites... I just couldn't help myself.of course you should, it's just the double standard that exists that annoys me. As I said earlier, my guess is it's the losers complaining to the mods that gets the action. I suspect either Killtown or one of the others losers cried to the mods.

[azazal]

Ok Hutch, found Huntsman's figures and I belive we ran these from the same sources - Huntsman's posting (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1703380&postcount=2696)

If anyone see's a math error, please point it out.

Mass = ~ 89585 Kg, that's half the max load, going to be erroring on the side of caution

Speed = 475 Mph or 764 Kph (212 M/s), propably slower then the real impact speed, but again erroring on the side of caution. Also this helps up establish a lower limit.

Kinetic Energy = 1/2 Mass * Velocity squared

KE = .5*89585 * (212^2)
KE = 44792.5 * 44944
KE = 2013154120 Joules

Just for fun, from wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiloton) we see that a kilo of TNT packs 4184000 joules of energy. Or our impact is equal to 1060 pounds of TNT. Granted this is just impact energy on the low end. Kick the speed up to a more belivible 885 Kph or 550 Mph and we have a KE of 2706991189 Joules or 1426 pounds of TNT. Anyway, I digress.

From Boeing's 767 site (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767family/pf/pf_200prod.html) we get a wing span of 47.6m. Leading edge surface are seems a bit tricky to track down, from JANE'S (http://www.janes.com/aerospace/civil/news/jawa/boeing_767.shtml) we have a leading edge slats surface area of 28.3 squre meters. I'm going to up that to 35 meter, take into account the fusealauge, engines, rest of the wings that is not slats, so please take with a grain of salt. So taking our low-end figure of 2013154120 joules and divide by 35 M^2, we get 57518689.14 joules per square meter. Comes out to 13.75 Kg of TNT per M^2.


From rikzilla quoting Huntsman (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1722937&postcount=1829) we find that to cut a steel column with TNT, the formula is P=3/8*A, where P is the TNT-equivalent, in pounds, and A is the cross-sectional area, in inches.

This is were my brain goes plop. If Huntsman is out there, hopefully he can dod the math for what is needed to shear an exterior column.

[Class]

of course you should, it's just the double standard that exists that annoys me. As I said earlier, my guess is it's the losers complaining to the mods that gets the action. I suspect either Killtown or one of the others loses cried to the mods.
Killtown made a comment on Shermer saying he had no credibility. I quoted him and said "Let's hear it for the horse's mouth!"

3 minutes later it was gone, but I reposted it, asking not to be deleted again. I also screenshotted it so they can't delete it and claim I made no post.

[DavidJames]

Killtown made a comment on Shermer saying he had no credibility. I quoted him and said "Let's hear it for the horse's mouth!"

3 minutes later it was gone, but I reposted it, asking not to be deleted again. I also screenshotted it so they can't delete it and claim I made no post.I saw that

I think you referenced the wrong part of the horse ;)

[Hutch]

Posted Azazal, with full credit to you. Much and many thanks. I will be interested if any of the no-planers/slick takes on the mathematical challenge you have presented for them.

[Pardalis]

Doesn't Avery look like Michael Schumacher?

[realitybites]

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/5430/export8ix.gif

Oh yeah, I went there ;)
Is this one of Dylan's glamour shots? If so, he probably shouldn't have gone for that wanna-be-tough-guy-who-lives-in-a-secretly-oppressive-world-but-he's-on-to-their-game-and-it-weighs-heavily-on-his-heart-and-mind look.

Doesn't suit him.

[WildCat]

Killtown made a comment on Shermer saying he had no credibility.
Read the last line to my reply to Killtown here on the Screw Loose Change (http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=41&view=findpost&p=774) forum. :D

[Pardalis]

Doesn't Avery look like Michael Schumacher?

Come to think of it, he's more a mix between Schumacher and Tarantino, but without the talent.

[Hellbound]

Azazal:

Well, according to http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~astaneh/1-Publications/Astaneh-9ASEC-WTC%20Paper%202003.pdf the exterior columns were about 46cm x 46cm exterior, with varying thickness. The interior columns were either 2" steel or 5" steel, so I'll assume the exterior columns are 2" steel as well.

So, 46cm is 18.11 inches. We'll round to 19 for argument's sake. That gives a cross section of a solid column as (19x19=) 361 in2. The interior "hole" would be 15" x 15", taking up 225in2. That leaves (361-225) 136in2 for our A value.

So, we take P = 3/8A and end up with P = 3/8 * 136 = 51 pounds of TNT, or 23.13kg. And that's an upper estimate.

Realistically, it's 18.11 inch columns likely to be about 1 inch to 1.5 inches thick, which gives a mid-limit A of 68.44 and a P of 25.665 lbs, or 11.64kg.

[kevin]

so, any cters expounding on the ny building that blew up today? Pretty obvious the explosives planted when the building was built accidentally went off and they're covering it up as a "gas" explosion. as if.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/5430/export8ix.gif

Oh yeah, I went there ;)

Expect more death threats against your children from the truthers.

...and fawning admiration from KKKilltown, Popol Vuh and the swastika swinging members of the movement.

EDIT: Anyone feel like chipping in to get rid of that trial version watermark?

[steve s]

so, any cters expounding on the ny building that blew up today? Pretty obvious the explosives planted when the building was built accidentally went off and they're covering it up as a "gas" explosion. as if.

The building did collapse within its own footprint. Using Looserlogic we can conclude that this was a controlled demolition. A gas explosion? Yeah, right. Everyone knows that explosions go outward sending debris everywhere but the footprint. And we'll probably find that Larry Silverstein owned the building.

Steve S.

[Class]

The building did collapse within its own footprint. Using Looserlogic we can conclude that this was a controlled demolition. A gas explosion? Yeah, right. Everyone knows that explosions go outward sending debris everywhere but the footprint. And we'll probably find that Larry Silverstein owned the building.

Steve S.
TheQuest (if I recall) made a post about the government controlled media or something to that nature, how media reports are completely different from reality. He based this decision off of a witness saying the building exploded, but the headline said it burned down. Compared it to 9/11, etc, etc.

[Hutch]

got a brief timeout for implying that Michael Shermer regards Killtown as an annoying moonbat"

Just posted a link to that thread over at Mr. Shermer's Forum, so he can be pleased to know his e-mail is being broadcast over there...

And dang it, chip, of course you got suspended! There are no bats on the moon, you fool. He's an annoying regolith (sic)!

[dubfan]

Looks like one of the "Scholars for 9/11 Truth", Kevin Barrett, will be able to teach his class, "Intro to Islam", at UW this fall. His class will include a week-long module on his support for 9/11 conspiracy theory.

Provost review clears Barrett to teach class on Islam (http://www.news.wisc.edu/12701.html)

[UW Provost Farrell said]"We cannot allow political pressure from critics of unpopular ideas to inhibit the free exchange of ideas. That classroom interaction is central to this university's mission and to the expansion of knowledge. Silencing that exchange now would only open the door to more onerous and sweeping restrictions," he says.

"It is in cases like this - difficult cases involving unconventional ideas - that we define our principles and determine our future," Farrell adds. "Instead of restricting politically unpopular speech, we will take our cue from the bronze plaque in front of Bascom Hall that calls for the 'continual and fearless sifting and winnowing' of ideas."

UW-Madison students, Farrell says, are fully capable of analyzing new, controversial and even unwelcome ideas.

"Our students are not blank slates. They are capable of exercising good judgment, critical analysis and speaking their minds," Farrell says. "Instructors do not hand over knowledge wrapped up in neat packages. Knowledge grows from challenging ideas in a setting that encourages dialogue and disagreement. That's what builds the kind of sophisticated, critical thinking we expect from our graduates."

Campus officials also reviewed Barrett's teaching record at UW-Madison.

"Although the university does not endorse Mr. Barrett's political views or his theories regarding the events of 9/11, our review showed that he has a record of quality teaching, including as a teaching assistant in this class," Farrell says. "His plan for the course appears to offer a sound learning experience for students interested in gaining a better understanding of Islam."

[WildCat]

That's what builds the kind of sophisticated, critical thinking we expect from our graduates.
If only they expected the same from their instructors. :(

[dubfan]

Top Ten 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists in Academia (http://www.footballfansfortruth.us/archives/001517.html)

Kevin Barrett makes an appearance. #1 is a JREF favorite.

[Brainster]

Top Ten 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists in Academia (http://www.footballfansfortruth.us/archives/001517.html)

Kevin Barrett makes an appearance. #1 is a JREF favorite.

Can you imagine if he'd known about the sawdust analogy? Or the Keebler elves? Or her habit of dressing up her cats?

Of course, if he were doing it today, blog-stalker Deb Frisch (http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/20640/) would surely make the list. Oddly enough, she's a CTer who doesn't believe in controlled demolition (http://debfrisch.com/archives/2005/02/mulder_scully_a.html) at the WTC, which has to make her the only one of those I've ever encountered.

[dubfan]

Of course, if he were doing it today, blog-stalker Deb Frisch (http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/20640/) would surely make the list. Oddly enough, she's a CTer who doesn't believe in controlled demolition (http://debfrisch.com/archives/2005/02/mulder_scully_a.html) at the WTC, which has to make her the only one of those I've ever encountered.

From her blog:

Deb Duchovny: First of all, I am not skeptical of the story about what happened at the World Trade Center. I saw it with my own eyes. Coincidentally, on September 13, 2001 I went to a meeting that had been scheduled before September 11 with engineers from the National Science Foundation and NIST. I went to many meetings about the collapse of the towers, a conference at NYU on the topic. There is absolutely no mystery about what happened there. There is some controversy about whether the fireproofing on the steel beams was installed properly, but other than that, there's no room for tin foil hats (what does that mean, anyway?) at the WTC site.

We need to get her together with V2ROT8 from the LC forums (the one whom OCMARK pissed off so badly she left in frustration). She was an AA flight attendant who didn't for a second think anything was odd about the hijackings and the plane crashes themselves, but she believed the WTC was a controlled demolition.

What happens when you get two CTs together who believe opposite halves of the CT? Do they spontaneously annihilate each other, like matter and antimatter?

[SRW]

Top Ten 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists in Academia (http://www.footballfansfortruth.us/archives/001517.html)

Kevin Barrett makes an appearance. #1 is a JREF favorite.

Wow what a list who would have ever believed James H. Fetzer can only make #6. It must be a great accomplishment to be a bigger wac job then old Jimmy F.

Steve

[Johnny C.]

From her blog:



We need to get her together with V2ROT8 from the LC forums (the one whom OCMARK pissed off so badly she left in frustration). She was an AA flight attendant who didn't for a second think anything was odd about the hijackings and the plane crashes themselves, but she believed the WTC was a controlled demolition.

What happens when you get two CTs together who believe opposite halves of the CT? Do they spontaneously annihilate each other, like matter and antimatter?
I wouldn't be surprised if we got 2 full-fledged CTists if we combined those two.

[delphi_ote]

What happens when you get two CTs together who believe opposite halves of the CT? Do they spontaneously annihilate each other, like matter and antimatter?
It would be like putting together one kid who believes in Voltron and another that believes in He-Man. They'd get along great.

[tacodaemon]

Top Ten 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists in Academia (http://www.footballfansfortruth.us/archives/001517.html)

Kevin Barrett makes an appearance. #1 is a JREF favorite.

Man, I didn't really start laughing when reading Joseph Diaferia's questions for Bush until I got to this one:

Mr. President, is it true that just before his fatal take-off, you were near the New Jersey airport where JFK Jr. kept his plane? If so, why?

Oh man. Like John-John really mattered all that much in the real world. Is the idea that Bush would kill John-John just because -- also according to Diaferia -- his father killed John-John's father? If so, then his sister Mrs. Schlossberg had better watch out for GWB's sister Dorothy Bush Koch.

[CurtC]

Oh man. Like John-John really mattered all that much in the real world. Is the idea that Bush would kill John-John just because -- also according to Diaferia -- his father killed John-John's father?
Yeah, I can just see W ditching his secret service coverage, sneaking out to the airport, finding the right plane, and disconnecting the turn-and-bank indicator his own self. He's a cunning one!

[SRW]

Yeah, I can just see W ditching his secret service coverage, sneaking out to the airport, finding the right plane, and disconnecting the turn-and-bank indicator his own self. He's a cunning one!

Yeah like he has to go through all that trouble, obviously he hired the manufacture of the plane to set up a control panel demolition. Or had them fill it with a concrete core to assure it ran out of gas.

[CptColumbo]

Man, I didn't really start laughing when reading Joseph Diaferia's questions for Bush until I got to this one:
I liked the accusation that the Bush's have "super secret bank accounts." Does the banker have to cross-their-heart and hope to die if they reveal the existence of the account? How super secret can it be if he found out about it? Does the banker have to stick a needle in their eye now?

[tacodaemon]

Yeah like he has to go through all that trouble, obviously he hired the manufacture of the plane to set up a control panel demolition. Or had them fill it with a concrete core to assure it ran out of gas.
Poking around a bit, I did find a Grauniad article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/kennedy/story/0,2763,206565,00.html) from shortly after JFK Jr.'s death that mentioned some of the frenzied Usenet speculation at the time. Don't see anything about GWB then though, which makes sense since GWB wasn't that big of a figure yet outside of Texas in the summer of 1999, other than for those of us who were already following the GOP primary race. One of the telling signs about conspiracy theories is that they often center around big obvious targets like the president, and only pull in relatively lesser known figures (e.g., Larry Silverstein in the case of the WTC theories) after they start to develop a bit. Only after somebody becomes a household name does anybody care to go back in time and "connect the dots" about them.

[Brainster]

Yeah like he has to go through all that trouble, obviously he hired the manufacture of the plane to set up a control panel demolition. Or had them fill it with a concrete core to assure it ran out of gas.

You don't actually believe John-John was flying a plane, do you? I have interviews with Marcel Marceau which say that he was an average to below-average pilot (at least, that's the way I interpret his mimes). Personally I think it was a non-hologram, which sort of shows us how blatant the government can be. Wake up sheeple!

[Brainster]

They watch one of those success videos (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7827) and their jaws drop:

holy hell!

I was just shown this dvd the other day. What a coincidence (or not).

It's message is very powerful, and I think essential to this and other facets of the truth movement, which anyone who has done any real looking into 911 knows goes REALLY deep.

This is a great piece of work to help keep you centered ina worldso full of fear.

I reccommend it 2 thumbs, cause that's all I have.

Hah, unlike us JREF ninjas who have three thumbs on each hand!

Well, unfortunately this video which unlocks all the secrets of the ancient woo, is no longer on Google Video. Instead you have to go to this website (http://www.wealthbeyondreason.com/) where you will learn to "purposefully activate laws of physics to generate the wealth you deserve".

[XXX]

where you will learn to "purposefully activate laws of physics to generate the wealth you deserve".

No wounder I'm not wealthy! I currently have my laws of physics set to "deactivate".

[gumboot]

Yeah, I can just see W ditching his secret service coverage, sneaking out to the airport, finding the right plane, and disconnecting the turn-and-bank indicator his own self. He's a cunning one!


Bush was in the Air National Guard. He would know EXACTLY how to disconnect the turn-and-bank indicator. It all fits.

-Andrew

[Belz...]

Of course, if he were doing it today, blog-stalker Deb Frisch (http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/20640/) would surely make the list. Oddly enough, she's a CTer who doesn't believe in controlled demolition (http://debfrisch.com/archives/2005/02/mulder_scully_a.html) at the WTC, which has to make her the only one of those I've ever encountered.

Not me. A friend of mine once told me that the WTC was indeed destroyed by terrorists, but that they were "hired" by Bush, somehow.

I don't see how the ONE added layer of complexity helps at all, though.

[Belz...]

No wounder I'm not wealthy! I currently have my laws of physics set to "deactivate".

Yeah, you never seem to remember to set these back on.

[kookbreaker]

Yeah, you never seem to remember to set these back on.

Its Microsoft's fault. They shipped it with the settings dafaulted that way.

[azazal]

Azazal:

Well, according to http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~astaneh/1-Publications/Astaneh-9ASEC-WTC%20Paper%202003.pdf the exterior columns were about 46cm x 46cm exterior, with varying thickness. The interior columns were either 2" steel or 5" steel, so I'll assume the exterior columns are 2" steel as well.

So, 46cm is 18.11 inches. We'll round to 19 for argument's sake. That gives a cross section of a solid column as (19x19=) 361 in2. The interior "hole" would be 15" x 15", taking up 225in2. That leaves (361-225) 136in2 for our A value.

So, we take P = 3/8A and end up with P = 3/8 * 136 = 51 pounds of TNT, or 23.13kg. And that's an upper estimate.

Realistically, it's 18.11 inch columns likely to be about 1 inch to 1.5 inches thick, which gives a mid-limit A of 68.44 and a P of 25.665 lbs, or 11.64kg.

Thank you sir, hmm 2 Kg to spare, not bad.

Hutch, any responce from them?

[Gravy]

Its Microsoft's fault. They shipped it with the settings dafaulted that way.
I find it helps to run an antigravity scan at least once a day. My computer came preloaded with physical laws, but they left out the speed of light and it took a dozen calls to customer service to get them to send it.

[Hutch]

Oh my ed. I don't much like the Bushes, but the spawn of Satan?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7634&st=0&#entry5978094

As for the gesture, see my post at the bottom--I guess LC'ers are not much into American football...:rolleyes:

[azazal]

Oh my ed. I don't much like the Bushes, but the spawn of Satan?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7634&st=0&#entry5978094

As for the gesture, see my post at the bottom--I guess LC'ers are not much into Amercian football...:rolleyes:

No no no, they obviously have never seen "The Breakfast Club" Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.

[Hutch]

Thank you sir, hmm 2 Kg to spare, not bad.

Hutch, any responce from them?

From slick this morning, and I quote:

You are forgetting one very very important factor. The fact that alot of the kinetic energy would be dispersed and converted into heat before even reaching the core, it's an inelastic collision. I highly doubt that the plane retained its kinetic energy after crashing through the 14 inch facade and everything else in between it and the core. So there's really no way of getting the exact math because of that and factors like friction etc. But one thing im sure we can safely say is this was no ordinary 767. Another thing I would like to add to a previous reply. Sure water can cut through steel, if it's concentrated and traveling at a hight rate, but try to cut through multiple steel plates with air in between. For every steel plate it cuts through, a dramatic amount of kinetic energy would be lost.

If I am getting him correctly, he has moved the argument to the core columns rather than the other columns. and why wouldn't it have been an ordinary 767, given the KE rate (which does not even count any additional energy from the exploding fuel). And then he brings in the water drills as a obfuscation.

But no math. No math. Very, very seldom do you see anything close to math over there. It is a topic that they are not very comfortable with, IMHO.

[DavidJames]

But no math. No math. Very, very seldom do you see anything close to math over there. It is a topic that they are not very comfortable with, IMHO.They ignore, ridicule, or obfuscate anything related to actual science, math, physics or even logic.

Amazingly, none of them can say who did or how they did it. But they are 100% sure it didn't happen per NIST and the 9/11 report.

They know what they know, they can't say why, but they just know.

[Apollyon]

Hutch. Ask him what else there was of any significance between the facade and the core to disperse the KE. Wall partitions and office furniture wouldn't seem to be much of a hindrance.

[pgwenthold]

But no math. No math. Very, very seldom do you see anything close to math over there. It is a topic that they are not very comfortable with, IMHO.

It's odd. On one hand, he says how the math is too complex to do an analysis. But then goes on to make conclusions about how things couldn't have happened. If the math is too complicated (which, in fact, I don't really dispute, and lots of simplifications have to be made), then how can he claim it can't happen? He doesn't realize that such a claim is actually a mathematical statement regarding the physics.

[azazal]

From slick this morning, and I quote:



If I am getting him correctly, he has moved the argument to the core columns rather than the other columns. and why wouldn't it have been an ordinary 767, given the KE rate (which does not even count any additional energy from the exploding fuel). And then he brings in the water drills as a obfuscation.

But no math. No math. Very, very seldom do you see anything close to math over there. It is a topic that they are not very comfortable with, IMHO.

Why am I not surprised, can't counter the arguement, move the goalposts. If you want to make his head go boom, drop this one on him. From the LC PT 2 (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1701886&postcount=2622) thread.

From here: Bureau of Transportation Statistics (http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_04_06_m.html)

Jet fuel = 37,626,700 joules/liter

10,000 gallons = 37,854.118 liters

So our energy comes out to 1424325541751 joules.

And I see in that I had the wrong number for the joules per kg of TNT there. 10,000 gallons of JP4 comes out to roughly 340421 kg of TNT not the 308825 kg figure I had said earlier. The KE of impact had more then enough power to punch through the exterior columns and the resulting fire ball dumped massive ammounts of heat into the core columns. Oh well I'm sure they'll ignore that as well.

[Hellbound]

azazal:

I think your earlier fuel figure was right, because IIRC estimates were at 9000 gallons (8000 to 10000, I think).

Not that it changes your conclusions ;)

[Belz...]

Oh my ed. I don't much like the Bushes, but the spawn of Satan?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7634&st=0&#entry5978094

As for the gesture, see my post at the bottom--I guess LC'ers are not much into American football...:rolleyes:

Gosh. How long do you think it'll be before the amount of stupidity over there attains critical mass ?

[azazal]

azazal:

I think your earlier fuel figure was right, because IIRC estimates were at 9000 gallons (8000 to 10000, I think).

Not that it changes your conclusions ;)


Excellent, though I should state that I am not a physicist, I just play one on the internet

[CurtC]

Hah, unlike us JREF ninjas who have three thumbs on each hand!
You only got three on each hand?!? I'm all thumbs.

I also have two left feet.

[kookbreaker]

Gosh. How long do you think it'll be before the amount of stupidity over there attains critical mass ?

How long? Before?

I think we already have an H-bomb of stupid over there.

[60hzxtl]

H-Bomb?

You ain't seen nothin'

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7893


Loosers - providing alibi's for terrorists since 2005!

I love the ct'ers on the building explosion in NYC yesterday.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7818

I spent the day there for one of the alphabet networks - by 7:30 last night they were hauling away huge dump trucks of rubble, from a (get this ct'ers!!!) a crime scene.

It's all about them - over at the CT site, that NYC explsion was planned to take the attention away from Vanity Fair article!

(They don't even realize that VF is not really praising them as much as pointing to the critters in the cage.)

[Apollyon]

Gosh. How long do you think it'll be before the amount of stupidity over there attains critical mass ?
Never.

It's all vacuum energy, which perfectly explains all the suckage of reason over at LC.

[WildCat]

Oh my ed. I don't much like the Bushes, but the spawn of Satan?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7634&st=0&#entry5978094

As for the gesture, see my post at the bottom--I guess LC'ers are not much into American football...:rolleyes:
Wow, I'm just speechless... :eek:

[WildCat]

I love the ct'ers on the building explosion in NYC yesterday.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7818

I spent the day there for one of the alphabet networks - by 7:30 last night they were hauling away huge dump trucks of rubble, from a (get this ct'ers!!!) a crime scene.

It's all about them - over at the CT site, that NYC explsion was planned to take the attention away from Vanity Fair article!

(They don't even realize that VF is not really praising them as much as pointing to the critters in the cage.)
Have they fit this explosion (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/11/explosion.wisconsin.ap/) into their CT world yet? This one actually killed people.

[60hzxtl]

Have they fit this explosion (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/11/explosion.wisconsin.ap/) into their CT world yet? This one actually killed people.


Its easier to do if you have pictures of it in progress, not after the fact.

You can make a video!

and ask questions. and ignore the answers. and say "common sense says. . ."

[WildCat]

What we need to do is attract folks like Russ Pickering, Merc (who apparently is no longer a Jerk), Sun Zoo, and even Killtown from LC to try out their therories over here.
Killtown has been active at the Screw Loose Change forum (http://xbehome.com/screwloosechange/index.php) lately if anyone wants to discuss w/ him. He at least argues coherently and responds to questions, a refreshing change from most CT'ers. Mind you, he's a "no planes hit the WTC, it was all CGI" guy though.

[DavidJames]

Killtown has been active at the Screw Loose Change forum (http://xbehome.com/screwloosechange/index.php) lately if anyone wants to discuss w/ him. He at least argues coherently and responds to questions, a refreshing change from most CT'ers. Mind you, he's a "no planes hit the WTC, it was all CGI" guy though.Yes he responds and is coherent, but he ultimately falls back on the old CT fallacy of prove me wrong. When I pushed him on Silverstone's (:D) Dr. Appt and what made him think it was not a genuine appt. He responded I need to prove it was.

[DavidJames]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7885

Looks like killtown was suspended.

[negativ]

I doubt that this warrants its own separate thread, but who knows.

I've been following this along for quite a while. At first I just thought of this particular batch of CTs as rather amusingly absurd and somewhat entertaining. But now I'm finding myself actually being angered by some of the asinine crap they do their best to spread and, unlike psychics and faith healers, apparently truly believe.

They have pretty much proven that they are immune to logic, evidence, and rationality, so there's no changing their minds. To me, they are of the same ilk as holocaust deniers and religious fundamentalists. Any evidence or argument that runs counter to their dogma is denounced as propaganda from The Enemy, whether The Enemy is the The Government(tm), the Eeevil Jews, or Satan.

While it might be satisfying on a visceral level, I'm not inclined to track each and every one of them down and choke the **** out of them just to make myself feel better.

Does anyone else have this kind of reaction? How do you deal with it? Should I just breathe deeply and ridicule myself later for getting all annoyed?

[Mancman]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7885

Looks like killtown was suspended.

TheQuest gives us the nugget of the century: "this site should not endorse theories that are not proven."

:boggled:

Anyone had the misfortune to read this? Gives a disturbing insight into the minds of these people: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7887

[60hzxtl]

I doubt that this warrants its own separate thread, but who knows.

I've been following this along for quite a while. At first I just thought of this particular batch of CTs as rather amusingly absurd and somewhat entertaining. But now I'm finding myself actually being angered by some of the asinine crap they do their best to spread and, unlike psychics and faith healers, apparently truly believe.

They have pretty much proven that they are immune to logic, evidence, and rationality, so there's no changing their minds. To me, they are of the same ilk as holocaust deniers and religious fundamentalists. Any evidence or argument that runs counter to their dogma is denounced as propaganda from The Enemy, whether The Enemy is the The Government(tm), the Eeevil Jews, or Satan.

While it might be satisfying on a visceral level, I'm not inclined to track each and every one of them down and choke the **** out of them just to make myself feel better.

Does anyone else have this kind of reaction? How do you deal with it? Should I just breathe deeply and ridicule myself later for getting all annoyed?



I think your instincts are good - but a deep breath is in order.

They are so wacked, and so bile filled, and so paranoid, that it becomes similar to an old car: It runs great, except it burns oil, the ac doesn't work any more, the transmission doesn't shift, the paint is faded, the trunk key doesn't work, there's a crack in the windshield, the brakes work except when it rains - but its a really great car.

Likewise, when they say things like "fell in its own footprint" and they all nod, but a few minutes earlier they said the stuff was jettisoned out too far, etc. Soon it makes no sense. Couple that with dressing your cat, trying to make friends with the bad guys, seeing an all powerful government with a hand in everything including the workings of you router, well soon you are a wacko.

Same with these guys. The sad part is that these idiots have a bigger forum than ever. But it cuts back on them with places like this.

Don't let them off the hook. It may be worrisome that these people have the vote, (except for Roy Sinister, who was a guest of the State somewhere once,) but they are paranoid there too, and can't get around to figuring out things like registering, or getting up and showing up to vote.

[WildCat]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7885

Looks like killtown was suspended.
I PM'd him and told him to feel free to post here if he'd like. We'll see...

Damn they sure eat their own over there!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I doubt that this warrants its own separate thread, but who knows.

I've been following this along for quite a while. At first I just thought of this particular batch of CTs as rather amusingly absurd and somewhat entertaining. But now I'm finding myself actually being angered by some of the asinine crap they do their best to spread and, unlike psychics and faith healers, apparently truly believe.

They have pretty much proven that they are immune to logic, evidence, and rationality, so there's no changing their minds. To me, they are of the same ilk as holocaust deniers and religious fundamentalists. Any evidence or argument that runs counter to their dogma is denounced as propaganda from The Enemy, whether The Enemy is the The Government(tm), the Eeevil Jews, or Satan.

While it might be satisfying on a visceral level, I'm not inclined to track each and every one of them down and choke the **** out of them just to make myself feel better.

Does anyone else have this kind of reaction? How do you deal with it? Should I just breathe deeply and ridicule myself later for getting all annoyed?

Answers in order:
Yes. Force myself to step away from the computer for a while. Yes to the first, no to the second. :D hth

[CurtC]

I've now listened to the appearance of Jim Fetzer on the "Colmes" show, whatever that is. The good news is that he comes across as insane, which I think he is, and this can't be good for the troothiness "movement".

I've also listened to part of Jim Fetzer's own radio show in which his guest is Judy Wood. At the first, he was starting to ridicule NASA's explanation of what killed the Columbia space shuttle, saying that there was no way a piece of foam could have attained a speed of 500 mph before it hit the wing, which I can understand if it was simply that the acceleration surprised him, but in fact Fetzer showed a complete and total misunderstanding of the physical world while trying to explain his thoughts. He backed off when Judy Wood told him that was really what happened.

But the point I wanted to raise about this show is the commercials. The podcast doesn't have the commercials edited out, so you get to hear what kind of advertisers would sponsor his show. So far I've heard:

* Dietary supplements to ward off the effects of various ills, including Chemtrails.

* Naturopathy.

* Magets to put on the fuel line of your car to line up the fuel's molecules and increase efficiency.

* Bible-based school curricula.

* Our favorite news source, the American Free Press.

* An advertisement for an exciting career in knife sharpening.

And I'm only about halfway through the first of two podcast files. I especially liked the part about how the towers' destruction could not have been actual failures due to impacts/fire, because, as everyone knows, trees don't spontaneously turn into sawdust from the top down.

[CurtC]

I PM'd him and told him to feel free to post here if he'd like. We'll see...
Did you PM him through the LC Forum? I can tell you from experience that if a user has been suspended/banned, he can't read his PMs.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

RE CurtC: "Colmes" show is, iirc, a radio show for half of the Hannity and Colmes tv show duo.

[Hutch]

Damn they sure eat their own over there!

Indeed, there is the "Mainstream" CT'ers, meaning those that take LC as their gospel, and the "Heretics" who espouse even wilder interpertations (I rather like broodlinger (IIRC), who is now in favor of a 767 hit, but that it had been redesigned to have a Depleted Uranium or Thermite nose put on the aircraft to allow it to crash through the WTC...:boggled:

but of course, they all hate the "infidels" (that's us, BTW) :cool:

[CurtC]

RE CurtC: "Colmes" show is, iirc, a radio show for half of the Hannity and Colmes tv show duo.
Thanks. I guess I could look it up if I care, but I have no idea who either Hannity or Colmes are. My guess is they are on one of those cable news channels that I don't get. But I am proudly ignorant of that whole scene.

[chipmunk stew]

I've now listened to the appearance of Jim Fetzer on the "Colmes" show, whatever that is. The good news is that he comes across as insane, which I think he is, and this can't be good for the troothiness "movement".

I've also listened to part of Jim Fetzer's own radio show in which his guest is Judy Wood. At the first, he was starting to ridicule NASA's explanation of what killed the Columbia space shuttle, saying that there was no way a piece of foam could have attained a speed of 500 mph before it hit the wing, which I can understand if it was simply that the acceleration surprised him, but in fact Fetzer showed a complete and total misunderstanding of the physical world while trying to explain his thoughts. He backed off when Judy Wood told him that was really what happened.

But the point I wanted to raise about this show is the commercials. The podcast doesn't have the commercials edited out, so you get to hear what kind of advertisers would sponsor his show. So far I've heard:

* Dietary supplements to ward off the effects of various ills, including Chemtrails.

* Naturopathy.

* Magets to put on the fuel line of your car to line up the fuel's molecules and increase efficiency.

* Bible-based school curricula.

* Our favorite news source, the American Free Press.

* An advertisement for an exciting career in knife sharpening.

And I'm only about halfway through the first of two podcast files. I especially liked the part about how the towers' destruction could not have been actual failures due to impacts/fire, because, as everyone knows, trees don't spontaneously turn into sawdust from the top down.Sometimes I wish I lacked scruples. Marketing to the paranoid and gullible would be so easy and fun.

[dubfan]

The Kevin Barrett thing is really starting to blow up, at least on the libertarian- to slightly rightward-leaning side of the blogosphere.

Here's a quote from one of Ann Althouse's commenters (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2006/07/uw-911-denialist-appears-on-hannity.html#115263407050878829) that I really liked:

There's a certain abandoning of intellectual inhibitions with this stuff, isn't there? You've been raised all your life not to believe stuff that's patently crazy, but then one day you try a little, and the sky doesn't fall. So you try a little more, and the next thing you know you're doing the intellectual equivalent of running down the street naked with a lampshade on your head. Most people don't consider this as an option unless they're crazy, but you really can just let loose and believe absolutely anything.

Barrett's capacity for rational skepticism went where Deb Frisch's manners went. The id is all that's left.

She also has video of Barrett's appearance on Fox's "Hannity & Colmes" (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2006/07/uw-911-denialist-appears-on-hannity.html). Her comment thread is like the JREF vs. LC debate in microcosm. It's interesting to see people refer to arguments that have been debunked, rebunked, and then de-rebunked again (e.g., Popular Mechanics, "free-fall speed", put options, etc.)

The usual blood pressure warnings apply.

[kookbreaker]

I guess its time for a series of CT lightbulb jokes.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to tell us how light bulbs are part of the neo-con agenda, another to change the bulb anyway.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Five! That light bulbs must be changed because the ZIONISTS WORK THEIR DEEDS IN THE DARK!

Q: How many Loosers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to talk about his skill at changing light bulbs, one to tell how light bulbs are actually invincible, thirty seven to pat them on the back and hand out 'thumbs-up' smileys.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, if you fix the light 'they' will find you.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: None. In accordance with the second law of thermodynamics the bulb should have toppled over on its own and fallen out of the socket. The only explanation for why the bulb remains is that someone filled the socket with superglue when it was built.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: I would have beaten the light bulb to death with my luggage.

Q: How many Government Agents does it take to change a light bulb (according to CT schedule of events)?
A: three agents to get the new bulb, two to remove the old bulb, one to keep an eye on the electricity level, three to make sure nobody saw the bulb changing, two to asassinate those who did see it, fourty seven to bribe all the electrical engineers in the country to say bulbs do not burn out, 193 to bribe engineers world-wide....

[realitybites]

I guess its time for a series of CT lightbulb jokes.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to tell us how light bulbs are part of the neo-con agenda, another to change the bulb anyway.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Five! That light bulbs must be changed because the ZIONISTS WORK THEIR DEEDS IN THE DARK!

Q: How many Loosers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to talk about his skill at changing light bulbs, one to tell how light bulbs are actually invincible, thirty seven to pat them on the back and hand out 'thumbs-up' smileys.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, if you fix the light 'they' will find you.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: None. In accordance with the second law of thermodynamics the bulb should have toppled over on its own and fallen out of the socket. The only explanation for why the bulb remains is that someone filled the socket with superglue when it was built.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: I would have beaten the light bulb to death with my luggage.

Q: How many Government Agents does it take to change a light bulb (according to CT schedule of events)?
A: three agents to get the new bulb, two to remove the old bulb, one to keep an eye on the electricity level, three to make sure nobody saw the bulb changing, two to asassinate those who did see it, fourty seven to bribe all the electrical engineers in the country to say bulbs do not burn out, 193 to bribe engineers world-wide....
To quote the Guinness guys...

BRILLIANT!

[DavidJames]

I guess its time for a series of CT lightbulb jokes.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to tell us how light bulbs are part of the neo-con agenda, another to change the bulb anyway.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Five! That light bulbs must be changed because the ZIONISTS WORK THEIR DEEDS IN THE DARK!

Q: How many Loosers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to talk about his skill at changing light bulbs, one to tell how light bulbs are actually invincible, thirty seven to pat them on the back and hand out 'thumbs-up' smileys.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, if you fix the light 'they' will find you.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: None. In accordance with the second law of thermodynamics the bulb should have toppled over on its own and fallen out of the socket. The only explanation for why the bulb remains is that someone filled the socket with superglue when it was built.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: I would have beaten the light bulb to death with my luggage.

Q: How many Government Agents does it take to change a light bulb (according to CT schedule of events)?
A: three agents to get the new bulb, two to remove the old bulb, one to keep an eye on the electricity level, three to make sure nobody saw the bulb changing, two to asassinate those who did see it, fourty seven to bribe all the electrical engineers in the country to say bulbs do not burn out, 193 to bribe engineers world-wide....I have an alternate for the last one...
Q: How many Government Agents does it take to change a light bulb (according to CT schedule of events)?
A: I don't know but I KNOW FOR SURE THAT THE GOVERNEMENT changed it and it didn't go down the way they said it did.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Q: How many CTers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: It doesn't matter how many you have; they will be too busy arguing over if the lightbulb is real; how it burnt out or, alternatively, that it isn't burnt out but that the switch was flipped; demand evidence for the bulb being burned out, then deny said evidence when it is presented, etc.

Q: How many skeptics does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Only one, but before the lightbulb is changed:
1) the switch will be toggled
2) the breaker/fuse will be checked
3) outlets in the room will be checked for power
4) bulb will be removed and reseated
5) new bulb will be placed in socket and watched for effect
6) if new bulb performs differently from old bulb, old bulb will be put back in socket to observe if old bulb retains previous behavior or adopts behavior of new bulb
7) new bulb placed in socket as fix
8) old bulb is checked in a different socket to confirm it is not a socket-only problem

[rwguinn]

Indeed, there is the "Mainstream" CT'ers, meaning those that take LC as their gospel, and the "Heretics" who espouse even wilder interpertations (I rather like broodlinger (IIRC), who is now in favor of a 767 hit, but that it had been redesigned to have a Depleted Uranium or Thermite nose put on the aircraft to allow it to crash through the WTC...:boggled:

but of course, they all hate the "infidels" (that's us, BTW) :cool:

ake a tour of some of the weather-related photos on the net...
Broomstraws stuck in trees. 2x4's through brick and concrete walls--
And those things are wind-borne, and at speeds of less than 300mph...

[DavidJames]

ake a tour of some of the weather-related photos on the net...
Broomstraws stuck in trees. 2x4's through brick and concrete walls--
And those things are wind-borne, and at speeds of less than 300mph...Government military training exercises.

Man, this CT stuff is easy.

[Class]

Already a thread about the bombings in Bombay, India this morning.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/11/D8IPSOLOF.html

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7906

As usual, US government did it to blame Muslims or to blame Iran or North Korea or whatever.

[JamesB]

Wow, I'm just speechless... :eek:

That is just a whole new level of stupid.

[Stellafane]

I guess its time for a series of CT lightbulb jokes.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to tell us how light bulbs are part of the neo-con agenda, another to change the bulb anyway.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Five! That light bulbs must be changed because the ZIONISTS WORK THEIR DEEDS IN THE DARK!

Q: How many Loosers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to talk about his skill at changing light bulbs, one to tell how light bulbs are actually invincible, thirty seven to pat them on the back and hand out 'thumbs-up' smileys.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, if you fix the light 'they' will find you.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: None. In accordance with the second law of thermodynamics the bulb should have toppled over on its own and fallen out of the socket. The only explanation for why the bulb remains is that someone filled the socket with superglue when it was built.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: I would have beaten the light bulb to death with my luggage.

Q: How many Government Agents does it take to change a light bulb (according to CT schedule of events)?
A: three agents to get the new bulb, two to remove the old bulb, one to keep an eye on the electricity level, three to make sure nobody saw the bulb changing, two to asassinate those who did see it, fourty seven to bribe all the electrical engineers in the country to say bulbs do not burn out, 193 to bribe engineers world-wide....

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Why do you ask, you neo-con Zionist??

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Prove it ever really burned out in the first place!

[azazal]

I guess its time for a series of CT lightbulb jokes.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to tell us how light bulbs are part of the neo-con agenda, another to change the bulb anyway.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Five! That light bulbs must be changed because the ZIONISTS WORK THEIR DEEDS IN THE DARK!

Q: How many Loosers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to talk about his skill at changing light bulbs, one to tell how light bulbs are actually invincible, thirty seven to pat them on the back and hand out 'thumbs-up' smileys.

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, if you fix the light 'they' will find you.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: None. In accordance with the second law of thermodynamics the bulb should have toppled over on its own and fallen out of the socket. The only explanation for why the bulb remains is that someone filled the socket with superglue when it was built.

Q: How many 'Scholars for 911 Truth' does it take to change a light bulb.
A: I would have beaten the light bulb to death with my luggage.

Q: How many Government Agents does it take to change a light bulb (according to CT schedule of events)?
A: three agents to get the new bulb, two to remove the old bulb, one to keep an eye on the electricity level, three to make sure nobody saw the bulb changing, two to asassinate those who did see it, fourty seven to bribe all the electrical engineers in the country to say bulbs do not burn out, 193 to bribe engineers world-wide....

Q: How many Government shrills are needed to change a light bulb?
A: None, see they secretly planted C4 when the light fixture was installed. Then when some one else changes the bulb, the C4 will detonate, the ensuing chaos will be blamed on a patsy and used and as an excuse to rescind the constitution and plunge us into a Illuminati controlled police state.

[kookbreaker]

Q: How many Government shrills are needed to change a light bulb?
A: None, see they secretly planted C4 when the light fixture was installed. Then when some one else changes the bulb, the C4 will detonate, the ensuing chaos will be blamed on a patsy and used and as an excuse to rescind the constitution and plunge us into a Illuminati controlled police state.

Huh,

Illunimati, light bulbs. Do the figuring.

Hey, I'm just asking questions.

[WildCat]

Did you PM him through the LC Forum? I can tell you from experience that if a user has been suspended/banned, he can't read his PMs.
No, it was through the Screw Loose Change forum.

[DavidJames]

No, it was through the Screw Loose Change forum.He's posting again on LC.

Moonbat suspensions must be measured in minutes.

[Class]

He's posting again on LC.

Moonbat suspensions must be measured in minutes.
No kidding. He was posting again about 30 minutes after he was suspended.

[WildCat]

Looks like bombs were built into the Big Dig (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/11/bigdigdeath.ap/index.html) also...

[Abbyas]

Going back downtown on Saturday.

I'd love to build my own catchy pamphlets to combat the CTers catchy pamphlets, maybe even with suggestions on how to fight problems with government without becoming a conspiracy theorist.

Any suggestions?

[Hagrok]

Q: How many skeptics does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Only one, but before the lightbulb is changed:
1) the switch will be toggled
2) the breaker/fuse will be checked
3) outlets in the room will be checked for power
4) bulb will be removed and reseated
5) new bulb will be placed in socket and watched for effect
6) if new bulb performs differently from old bulb, old bulb will be put back in socket to observe if old bulb retains previous behavior or adopts behavior of new bulb
7) new bulb placed in socket as fix
8) old bulb is checked in a different socket to confirm it is not a socket-only problem
That was awesome.

[Pardalis]

I especially like this one:


Q: How many Government Agents does it take to change a light bulb (according to CT schedule of events)?
A: three agents to get the new bulb, two to remove the old bulb, one to keep an eye on the electricity level, three to make sure nobody saw the bulb changing, two to asassinate those who did see it, fourty seven to bribe all the electrical engineers in the country to say bulbs do not burn out, 193 to bribe engineers world-wide....

It goes exponentially from there... :D

[kookbreaker]

Q: How many sinister, murderous, willing-to-kill-thousands-of-civilians-for-their-masters secrete conspiracy agents does it take to kill off those who figure out part or all of the secret conspiracy?

A: None. For some reason, they aren't into that.

[Mancman]

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One to change the bulb and hundreds to talk about how Halliburton helped short the wiring in order to get contracts to produce new lightbulbs and raise trillions of dollars to finance the NWO.

[Apollyon]

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: I don't see any lightbulb:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/romain/pics/lightbulb.jpg

[Regnad Kcin]

Q: How many conspiracy theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: You only think it's burnt out, due to the hypnotic CGI effects clouding your frontal lobe.

[Pardalis]

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: I don't see any lightbulb:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/romain/pics/lightbulb.jpg

:D :D that's so funny Apollyon! lol

Happy b-day Kookbreaker btw

[Brainster]

Going back downtown on Saturday.

I'd love to build my own catchy pamphlets to combat the CTers catchy pamphlets, maybe even with suggestions on how to fight problems with government without becoming a conspiracy theorist.

Any suggestions?

I've always felt that the most effective way to fight the nuts is to just spell out what they believe. Fetzer even gripes about this, saying that giving the conclusion without the premises ruins the theory. So maybe something like this:

What the Conspiracy Theorists Believe:

1. None of the planes were really hijacked (ask them what happened to those planes or where the passengers went).
2. The WTC was hit by two military planes. Or maybe no planes at all.
3. The Pentagon was hit by a missile.
4. The two towers and WTC 7 were brought down by controlled demolition.
5. At least 7 of the hijackers are alive (of course, if there were no hijackings, why aren't all 19 alive?)
6. Flight 93 never crashed in a field in Pennsylvania, or if it did, it was as a result of being shot down.
7. That thousands of people are involved in the conspiracy or the coverup, including all structural engineers (none of whom agree with the controlled demolition hypothesis), many NYFD and NYPD personnel.

As for fighting problems with the government without becoming a CTer, I'd point out (especially in NYC) that the CTers are claiming the government put together this massive conspiracy and did it so well, how come they're making such a hash out of it in Iraq? If this was all a plot to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, how come none of the hijackers was Iraqi or an Afghan? If they can pull all this off, why didn't they arrange to "find" WMD in Iraq? Emphasize that there are plenty of things to condemn the Bush Administration for without dragging these nutty theories into it.

Hope this helps!

[Class]

If they can pull all this off, why didn't they arrange to "find" WMD in Iraq?
The CTists say that if a WMD were planted in Iraq, it would easily show signs of being from the US so the government doesn't want to risk it.

Not joking.

[russell_morris]

Q: How many conspiracy theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: You only think it's burnt out, due to the hypnotic CGI effects clouding your frontal lobe.

I feel bad for my first post to any of the LC threads being a joke, but I can't resist:

Q: How many government agents does it take to orchestate a terrorist attack on the scale of 9-11?
A: Like, hey man.. I'm just asking questions...

[Mr. Skinny]

I feel bad for my first post to any of the LC threads being a joke, but I can't resist: (snip)

As a noob, you should feel bad. This post will surely result in your being shunned by the entire JREF community, and will ultimately ending in your banning.

If you had read the unwritten rules, you'd know you need at least 50 posts before you are allowed to tell sucky jokes. :D

[Kent1]

Im not done researching this yet, but I thought I would post some interesting links on melted/molten steel and reports from various OTHER fires.


OK so lets start looking at claims of "molten" or "melted steel".

http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051130/NEWS01/511300303/1002
The house where Ingle said she grew up has burned into a rubble of broken bricks and pools of melted aluminum, plastic and steel.

http://godetia.com/dirt/closet/005012.html
Fire temperatures exceeded 2000 degrees. The flames melted steel and turned brick to ashes.

http://www.kthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=15436
He says the fire was so hot, the melted steel beams look like pieces of bent licorice.


http://www.coverall.net/customers/rocky_mountain_log_homes_print.html
The steel walls contained the fire, it became like a 'blast furnace' inside. The heat literally bent and melted one inch thick steel.


http://dailybulletin.com/entertainment/ci_3982478
Melted plastic, paint, steel and electrical components from the refrigerator, stove and microwave mixed together to create an unbearably rancid stench.



http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=melted+steel+house+fire&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&u=www.atslab.com/fire/PDF/IndicatorsOfTrouble.pdf&w=melted+steel+house+fire&d=ED93WzmtNBh2&icp=1&.intl=us
A study of the 1991 Oakland fire that burned 3,000 homes
revealed the presence of melted copper in over 80% of the burned structures, and
what appeared to be melted steel in over 90% of the burned structures. With respect
to steel, looks can be deceiving. What appears to be melted may be merely oxidized.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2005/local/10/11/fire.html
The fire reached temperatures of 2,000 degrees, which melted steel beams, investigators said.

http://www.ajchomefinder.com/newsinclude/c.../4quarters.html
The slate roof had collapsed into the shell of the building, the north wing where the fire began wasdestroyed, and steel beams were twisted and melted.

http://www.interfire.org/res_file/fseab_cb.asp
The most obvious reason for the presence of melted copper is that the fire temperature exceeded the copper's melting temperature. There are many documented examples of such melting and brazing to solid steel walls.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=4232623
Lightning struck the Starbound Gymnastics Center in Bridgeton and destroyed the center's electrical system.

The center literally glowed with heat that melted steel beams and made trophies look more like abstract pieces of sculpture.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t3161.html
State police said a car apparently forced a tanker truck carrying 12,000 gallons of home heating oil into a concrete barrier on the southbound side of the highway, sparking a huge fire that burned for a couple of hours and damaged both sides of the interstate Thursday night.
Authorities said the fire damaged the steel support beams that carry both sides of the highway over Howard Avenue.

"It was such an intense heat that it melted the bridge," said Wallace Thomas, Bridgeport's deputy fire chief. "Once it sagged, it made a pool of it made a pool of burning fuel oil


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/24/earlyshow/main1435439_page2.shtml
Cruise Fire Left All Blackened, Melted
"It's hard to explain how things that appeared to be solid steel columns and railings and everything else were melted away. The fire was obviously very hot."
I'll add more later

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: I don't see any lightbulb:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/romain/pics/lightbulb.jpg

You have won the internet. :D

Ed Mcmahon will be delivering your check shortly.

[Blue Mountain]

I find it helps to run an antigravity scan at least once a day. My computer came preloaded with physical laws, but they left out the speed of light and it took a dozen calls to customer service to get them to send it.
I'm running a popular Linux distribution. It pre-installed three different sets of physical laws that sometimes conflict with each other, but with a little bit of hand-editing I can resolve most of the conflicts. In addition, the distribution ISOs have four more sets of laws, others are available for download from the net, and the -devel packages give you the tools to write your own--provided you have GPL++ (GNU Physical Laws) installed.

[Hutch]

Got this from a website that I found thanks to the BAUT Forum, I really think it is going on LC, just got to decide when and where...

ACHTUNG! ALLES LOOKENSPEEPERS!

Das Internet is nicht fuer gefingerclicken und giffengrabben. Ist easy
droppenpacket der routers und overloaden der backbone mit der spammen
und der me-tooen. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das
mausklicken sichtseeren keepen das bandwit-spewin hans in das pockets
muss; relaxen und watchen das cursorblinken.

Just wonder if any of them are old enough to remember the original...

[Regnad Kcin]

Love it, Hutch. A worthy update to the original.

[Brainster]

Q: How many conspiracy theorists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: You only think it's burnt out, due to the hypnotic CGI effects clouding your frontal lobe.

Q. How many government agents does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A. A lot fewer than you might think, because the government and the military are good at compartmentalizing these tasks. I'd say that it can be done with as few as 100 people.

[hellaeon]

Already a thread about the bombings in Bombay, India this morning.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/11/D8IPSOLOF.html

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7906

As usual, US government did it to blame Muslims or to blame Iran or North Korea or whatever.


Man, sometimes I laugh, but this is just intentional idiocy. What new depths of attention seeking they go for. Im staggered. These guys are so fuggin STUPID. How does anyone stay rational dealing with these guys. They just come up with ANYTHING to wash their brains with. Its just phenomenal.

Im so staggered.

:eye-poppi

[Pardalis]

Let me give it a try from the "creationnist" angle

Q. How many people does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A. None. Since the light is off and nobody can see, God must be doing it.

[JamesB]

Let me give it a try from the "creationnist" angle

Q. How many people does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A. None. Since the light is off and nobody can see, God must be doing it.

Hmm...

Q. So how many Darwinists does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. None, they think if they just wait around long enough the bulb will eventually mutate enough to work again.

:D

[WildCat]

Have they fit this explosion (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/11/explosion.wisconsin.ap/) into their CT world yet? This one actually killed people.
I was really joking when I posted this... but TheQuest has tied this in (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7906&view=findpost&p=5982192) w/ the India train bombing, the NYC collapse and the foiled subway attack from last week.


:boggled:

eta: there was a fire in the subway here in Chicago today, wonder when TheQuest will find out about that...

[Class]

One of the more outrageous claims I have seen anyone make on LC.

We did not catch Saddam Hussein. (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7770)

[SRW]

On the Friday after 9/11 I received a phone call, as horrific as the attacks were I did not realize how personal the loss would be. We lost Dan, was the message. http://www.legacy.com/Sept11.asp?Page=TributeStory&PersonId=96329.

And now these CT Mother FXXking low life scum of the earth are finding ways to excuse the hijackers. They are taking the tragedy away from the victims and trying to make it about themselves. "look at me" they shout, I am the truth, I know what really happened. Don't let your government lead you around, we have the truth and if you do not believe us you are a shill,,,neo con and a lier.

Dan died because a group of Islamic terrorists wanted to make a statement and hit America hard. They succeeded, and now these anti-semitic, or anti-government or anti-corporate, agenda driven slime balls want to make a name for themselves.

Yes there is no doubt in my mind that my government failed Dan, but it was through incompetence, institutionalized incompetence not some grand conspiracy, and even if it were a conspiracy how could anyone believe these losers could uncover anything. I am surprised if they figure out how to get their zippers down before peeing themselves.

I do not know how but slime balls need to pay for what they are doing. If you know who they are Email their employers, modified versions of this letter will be going to certain University boards of Directors. Do what ever you can to make the paranoia these pricks feel justified.

Steve

[Class]

More LC drivel: HIV is not the cause of AIDS and is instead one whole big fraud by AZT.
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7954

[steve s]

One of the more outrageous claims I have seen anyone make on LC.

We did not catch Saddam Hussein. (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7770)

I love the next post by nesNYC, "but I heard that the real Saddam died of natural causes in the late 90's." He heard this? What? Does he have connections in Saddam's inner circle?

What he really means is that he read it on the internet and accepts it as the gospel truth because, hey, it's on the internet, it must be true. What he doesn't realize is that it was posted by a 17-year-old punk living in his mother's basement who doesn't have a clue. And these are the same guys who claim were gullible for believing what the MSM reports. :rolleyes:

Steve S.

[orphia nay]

Going back downtown on Saturday.

I'd love to build my own catchy pamphlets to combat the CTers catchy pamphlets, maybe even with suggestions on how to fight problems with government without becoming a conspiracy theorist.

Any suggestions?

Brainster's suggestions seem excellent to me. Perhaps also add some links to 9/11Myths.com and Gravy's Critique of LC and they'll be well on their way to freedom from conspiracydom. (I'm unaware of any good links to sites detailing ways of activism for good government - perhaps others could help.)

Awesome!
...
I'm gonna make me a poster saying "9/11 was NOT an inside job. But Manipulating Evidence Can Still Be Fun!"
...


I don't get it. Perhaps just have "9/11 was NOT an inside job" and hand out pamphlets to people being targeted by Troofers.

If I wasn't so terribly far away I would come and help. I appreciate your efforts, Abby, thankyou.

[orphia nay]

Im not done researching this yet, but I thought I would post some interesting links on melted/molten steel and reports from various OTHER fires.


OK so lets start looking at claims of "molten" or "melted steel".

http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051130/NEWS01/511300303/1002
The house where Ingle said she grew up has burned into a rubble of broken bricks and pools of melted aluminum, plastic and steel.

http://godetia.com/dirt/closet/005012.html
Fire temperatures exceeded 2000 degrees. The flames melted steel and turned brick to ashes.

http://www.kthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=15436
He says the fire was so hot, the melted steel beams look like pieces of bent licorice.


http://www.coverall.net/customers/rocky_mountain_log_homes_print.html
The steel walls contained the fire, it became like a 'blast furnace' inside. The heat literally bent and melted one inch thick steel.


http://dailybulletin.com/entertainment/ci_3982478
Melted plastic, paint, steel and electrical components from the refrigerator, stove and microwave mixed together to create an unbearably rancid stench.



http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=melted+steel+house+fire&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&u=www.atslab.com/fire/PDF/IndicatorsOfTrouble.pdf&w=melted+steel+house+fire&d=ED93WzmtNBh2&icp=1&.intl=us
A study of the 1991 Oakland fire that burned 3,000 homes
revealed the presence of melted copper in over 80% of the burned structures, and
what appeared to be melted steel in over 90% of the burned structures. With respect
to steel, looks can be deceiving. What appears to be melted may be merely oxidized.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2005/local/10/11/fire.html
The fire reached temperatures of 2,000 degrees, which melted steel beams, investigators said.

http://www.ajchomefinder.com/newsinclude/c.../4quarters.html
The slate roof had collapsed into the shell of the building, the north wing where the fire began wasdestroyed, and steel beams were twisted and melted.

http://www.interfire.org/res_file/fseab_cb.asp
The most obvious reason for the presence of melted copper is that the fire temperature exceeded the copper's melting temperature. There are many documented examples of such melting and brazing to solid steel walls.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=4232623
Lightning struck the Starbound Gymnastics Center in Bridgeton and destroyed the center's electrical system.

The center literally glowed with heat that melted steel beams and made trophies look more like abstract pieces of sculpture.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t3161.html
State police said a car apparently forced a tanker truck carrying 12,000 gallons of home heating oil into a concrete barrier on the southbound side of the highway, sparking a huge fire that burned for a couple of hours and damaged both sides of the interstate Thursday night.
Authorities said the fire damaged the steel support beams that carry both sides of the highway over Howard Avenue.

"It was such an intense heat that it melted the bridge," said Wallace Thomas, Bridgeport's deputy fire chief. "Once it sagged, it made a pool of it made a pool of burning fuel oil


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/24/earlyshow/main1435439_page2.shtml
Cruise Fire Left All Blackened, Melted
"It's hard to explain how things that appeared to be solid steel columns and railings and everything else were melted away. The fire was obviously very hot."
I'll add more later

More great work from you, Kent1. Well done.

(Perhaps you could also post that in the Molten Steel in WTC (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58666&highlight=steel) thread, as it might be easier to find.)

[Belz...]

I love the ct'ers on the building explosion in NYC yesterday.

Hummm:

I thought it would be interesting to compare the two buildings and see if there are any glaring differences that would make WTC 7 look even more rigged. I couldn't find a very good picture.

"Hey, we really should manufacture more 'evidence' in favour of our pet theory!"

[Belz...]

Already a thread about the bombings in Bombay, India this morning.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/11/D8IPSOLOF.html

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7906

As usual, US government did it to blame Muslims or to blame Iran or North Korea or whatever.

Woah.

CTers are pretty much like solipsists, but with the media : It's like NOTHING that comes from official outlets can be trusted.

But google videos, though...

[Belz...]

Q: How many Conspiracy Theorists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: I don't see any lightbulb:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/romain/pics/lightbulb.jpg

Okay... THAT was gold.

[DavidJames]

I got suspended again. No clue as to why. I was polite and not confrontational.

Hey jenabell - can you use you contacts to point me to exactly what got me thrown out this time. Thanks

eta:

Perhaps it was when I chimed in on a great exchange between c0rbin and killtown

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509&st=60

c0rbin: The internet has been a boon to every looney cursed with loggorhea.
killtown: You calling me a loon?
c0rbin: You saying I'm calling you a loon?
killtown: It sounded like it. Were you calling me a loon?
C0rbin: Maybe I was and maybe I wasn't. Are you a loon?

Good stuff c0rbin. :D

I asked this:

Is calling someone a loon worse then accusing someone or a group of people of murdering over 3000 people on 9/11?

I believe the 19 already accused are guilty. But a lot of people are saying it's an "inside job" and one might argue either explicitly or implicitly accusing the Bush administration, Larry Silversteen, etc. I'm not saying anyone has, mind you.

Your thoughts.

[aggle-rithm]

I got suspended again. No clue as to why. I was polite and not confrontational.

Hey jenabell - can you use you contacts to point me to exactly what got me thrown out this time. Thanks

eta:

Perhaps it was when I chimed in on a great exchange between c0rbin and killtown

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6509&st=60

c0rbin: The internet has been a boon to every looney cursed with loggorhea.
killtown: You calling me a loon?
c0rbin: You saying I'm calling you a loon?
killtown: It sounded like it. Were you calling me a loon?
C0rbin: Maybe I was and maybe I wasn't. Are you a loon?

Good stuff c0rbin. :D

I asked this:


Maybe you put him on the spot by asking for his thoughts, when there is no evidence that such thoughts exist.

[Gravy]

Going back downtown on Saturday.

I'd love to build my own catchy pamphlets to combat the CTers catchy pamphlets, maybe even with suggestions on how to fight problems with government without becoming a conspiracy theorist.

Any suggestions?
I may be there to join you, finally!

You're welcome to use my flyer the way it is or as a suggestion for your own. It's 1/2 sheet (letter) printed front and back. It's more of a pain to print that way, but I think the half-sheet format is easier to handle, and it will fit inside the pamphlet that they hand out at Ground Zero. I have a paper cutter, so it's easy for me to make these. I use colored paper to make it stand out. By the way, the "9-11 Truth Movement" critique that's linked in my sig, and on the flyer, is specific to the pamphlets they hand out at GZ.

Here's a link to download the doc file of my flyer: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=134596

[Hutch]

I'll probalby go down for this, but chucksheen was just begging for it..


http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7915&st=0&#entry6005594

And ed help me, I had to deliver.

Bonus points if you guys get the reference before the Loosers do..

[DavidJames]

Maybe you put him on the spot by asking for his thoughts, when there is no evidence that such thoughts exist.He responded it was okay if there was evidence. I avoided the obvious response that it would be okay then to call him a loon, as the evidence was overwhelming.

But the LC people have a different definition of evidence which can be quickly described in 2 bullets.

Evidence:
- Whatever CTers use to support their theory.
- Evidence and Opposition to CT are mutual exclusive terms.

[Gravy]

I got suspended again. No clue as to why. I was polite and not confrontational.
Don't take it personally. The LC mods have a weekly quota to meet.

I noticed on the Screw Loose Change blog that Killtown was basically run out of town by someone repeatedly asking a simple question: "What did the first responders and investigators who were at the crash scenes say when you interviewed them?"

I think this is a devastatingly effective question to ask of the no-plane CTs like Avery, Fetzer, Killtown, Jeff King, Morgan Reynolds, Woody Box, etc.
Have any of them spoken with a single person who was at the crash sites and collected plane and body parts? Have they spoken to a single one of the thousands of people who investigated the attacks? Or do these no-planers simply assume that all these people are part of the conspiracy?

What cowards.

[Brainster]

I'll probalby go down for this, but chucksheen was just begging for it..


http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7915&st=0&#entry6005594

And ed help me, I had to deliver.

Bonus points if you guys get the reference before the Loosers do..

Molly Ivins, describing Pat Buchanan's speech to the 1992 Republican National Convention.

[JamesB]

Don't take it personally. The LC mods have a weekly quota to meet.

I noticed on the Screw Loose Change blog that Killtown was basically run out of town by someone repeatedly asking a simple question: "What did the first responders and investigators who were at the crash scenes say when you interviewed them?"

I think this is a devastatingly effective question to ask of the no-plane CTs like Avery, Fetzer, Killtown, Jeff King, Morgan Reynolds, Woody Box, etc.
Have any of them spoken with a single person who was at the crash sites and collected plane and body parts? Have they spoken to a single one of the thousands of people who investigated the attacks? Or do these no-planers simply assume that all these people are part of the conspiracy?

What cowards.

Although we have had some really stupid and annoying posters, we have never had to ban anyone, unlikr the daily purging at the LC forum. If you want to make a conspiracy theorist go away, just force them to have to make a logical argument.

[tacodaemon]

Just wonder if any of them are old enough to remember the original...

Ahh, blinkenlichten. BTW, those of you interested in general CT nuttiness and old-school online stuff might want to check out this thing I posted (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=59799).

[60hzxtl]

Abbyas,


You might also round up some of the images the idiots use as illustrations, and their quotes that contradict themselves within minutes.

e.g. On the poster board they have the image of the upright beam cut at an angle (to facilitate removal) with an acetylene torch, a common demolition tool. They use this as "evidence" of "thermite, thermate, and/or nanothermate" Find out when that photo was taken, (research I don't have time to assist with - sorry) and in their tradition, just ask the question, 'What tools would you have used to clean up the site?' A hacksaw? A big broom? Don't let them get away with reading what isn't there. Molton metal is not molton steel. Freefall speed is not terminal velocity. Near freefall speed is meaningless.

One photo tells us that explosive charges jettisoned debris out from the WTC, and then seconds later they tell us 'it fell in it's own footprint' (Only if the WTC was wearing snow shoes.)

CT only makes sense if you ignore all other context. No planes at the Pentagon? Because the attention was on the burning hole - why look at the plane parts?

WTC7 fell down? If it fell spontaneously on a Sunday afternoon, they might have a point, but when you add a raging fire, a chunk out of the building and the concussion of the collapse of 1 & 2, well, it makes sense of a chaotic day.

[JamesB]

I'll probalby go down for this, but chucksheen was just begging for it..


http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7915&st=0&#entry6005594

And ed help me, I had to deliver.

Bonus points if you guys get the reference before the Loosers do..

This guy cracks me up, you have to undergo his political indoctrination before you can post on the forum.

The best disciplinary action for you that I can think of is to restrict your posting ability for reviewal until you PM a mod/admin, informing them of the film you watched. We'll pick it up from there.

The next thing you know it will be like Scientology, and you will have to pay fees for every level of knowledge.

[DavidJames]

You might also round up some of the images the idiots use as illustrations, and their quotes that contradict themselves within minutes.I'm getting tired of seeing the cropped photo of that poor lady in one of the towers clinging to a beam in the hole created by a plane with the CT caption about how this proves there weren't any raging fires hot enough to weaken the steel.

It's disingenuous crap like this that makes me tilt towards the losers as being punk a22holes rather then simply pathetic and deluded.

[60hzxtl]

I'm getting tired of seeing the cropped photo of that poor lady in one of the towers clinging to a beam in the hole created by a plane with the CT caption about how this proves there weren't any raging fires hot enough to weaken the steel.

It's disingenuous crap like this that makes me tilt towards the losers as being punk a22holes rather then simply pathetic and deluded.


You have to hear the idiots on that;

"It proves the fires were not that hot."

"It was black smoke meaning it was almost out by itself."

The factory installed sarcasm chip in me takes over at that point. . .

Point of fact, I was at that townhouse expolsion/fire on Monday - it was plenty hot and the FDNY was still knocking down little fires at 7:30 PM.

And did the FDNY turn out! Trucks from the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens, came to a fire in Manhattan.

Didn't see Sentinel there, I was going to go over and say howdy. . .

[Regnad Kcin]

...Bonus points if you guys get the reference before the Loosers do..George Carlin?

ETA: Nope, but I wasn't that far off:

The idea that if kids wear uniforms to school, it helps keep order — bad theory. And it’s not even a new idea; I first saw it in old newsreels from the 1930s, but it was hard to understand, because the narration was in German.

[Kiwiwriter]

I doubt that this warrants its own separate thread, but who knows.

I've been following this along for quite a while. At first I just thought of this particular batch of CTs as rather amusingly absurd and somewhat entertaining. But now I'm finding myself actually being angered by some of the asinine crap they do their best to spread and, unlike psychics and faith healers, apparently truly believe.

They have pretty much proven that they are immune to logic, evidence, and rationality, so there's no changing their minds. To me, they are of the same ilk as holocaust deniers and religious fundamentalists. Any evidence or argument that runs counter to their dogma is denounced as propaganda from The Enemy, whether The Enemy is the The Government(tm), the Eeevil Jews, or Satan.

While it might be satisfying on a visceral level, I'm not inclined to track each and every one of them down and choke the **** out of them just to make myself feel better.

Does anyone else have this kind of reaction? How do you deal with it? Should I just breathe deeply and ridicule myself later for getting all annoyed?

Yes, when I read the garbage that LC nutters and Holocaust deniers spout, I have the same urge to smack them in the head and rub their noses in reality.

But remember, these jerks WANT us to explode...so the LC and neo-Nazi nutters can appear as normal, reasonable, logical people, while defenders of truth and fact look like demented, raving idiots.

It's all psychology and knowing which buttons to push.

[Pangea]

On the Friday after 9/11 I received a phone call, as horrific as the attacks were I did not realize how personal the loss would be. We lost Dan, was the message. http://www.legacy.com/Sept11.asp?Page=TributeStory&PersonId=96329.

And now these CT Mother FXXking low life scum of the earth are finding ways to excuse the hijackers. They are taking the tragedy away from the victims and trying to make it about themselves. "look at me" they shout, I am the truth, I know what really happened. Don't let your government lead you around, we have the truth and if you do not believe us you are a shill,,,neo con and a lier.

Dan died because a group of Islamic terrorists wanted to make a statement and hit America hard. They succeeded, and now these anti-semitic, or anti-government or anti-corporate, agenda driven slime balls want to make a name for themselves.

Yes there is no doubt in my mind that my government failed Dan, but it was through incompetence, institutionalized incompetence not some grand conspiracy, and even if it were a conspiracy how could anyone believe these losers could uncover anything. I am surprised if they figure out how to get their zippers down before peeing themselves.

I do not know how but slime balls need to pay for what they are doing. If you know who they are Email their employers, modified versions of this letter will be going to certain University boards of Directors. Do what ever you can to make the paranoia these pricks feel justified.

Steve
My heart breaks for your loss, Steve.
This post could have been written by my husband. He lost his cousin (http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/VictimInfo.asp?ID=1740)in the North Tower and we received the call on the Friday after the attacks as well.
When he first saw LC and later Alex Jones's Martial Law 9-11:Rise of the Police State, he was angry. It wasn't because he believed what was in those movies, but because they trampled the memory of Debra and the thousands of others who lost their lives.
Through this forum, I've shown him the work that Gravy, MarkyX, JamesB, Brainster and many others have done with TRUE respect to the lives lost on 9-11.
We thank you all for your time and tireless efforts.
*now I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy*

[Kaarjuus]

One of the more outrageous claims I have seen anyone make on LC.

We did not catch Saddam Hussein. (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7770)

From the LC post:


plus his own wife doesnt recognise "him" saddamn (http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/366/12494_saddam.html)?


Apparently, the valuable news site english.pravda.ru is a valid source for them. Not surprising.

[Hutch]

Molly Ivins, describing Pat Buchanan's speech to the 1992 Republican National Convention.

Give the man a Ceegar. Molly Ivins is my very favorite Liberal curmudgdon and coined the term "President Shrub" for GW.

Props to Reginald for a very good effort.

Better go over and see if I'm still allowed to post...

[WildCat]

Apparently, the valuable news site english.pravda.ru is a valid source for them. Not surprising.
You mean garlic vodka (http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/03-07-2006/82843-garlic-0) won't cure cancer and diabetes?

[c0rbin]

You mean garlic vodka (http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/03-07-2006/82843-garlic-0) won't cure cancer and diabetes?


Thats...[hic]..disappointing to [hic] hear.

[60hzxtl]

I'd say this was from the horse's mouth, but I know better:

http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/

"We have to take some of the Naudet's footage out (nothing imperative). Just making it a little bit better. I can't spend too much time on it, it's already set us back considerable.

Theater distribution deals are locked and loaded, all we have to do is finish the movie. That means interviewing people, tracking down footage, licensing it, etc."


Oh, yeah, roll out that red carpet Dylan, here we go - it'll be ready in time!

Now I know where all the gold went!

[Kaarjuus]

You mean garlic vodka (http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/03-07-2006/82843-garlic-0) won't cure cancer and diabetes?

No, silly, apricot seeds (http://www.1cure4cancer.com/) cure cancer.

[Belz...]

No, silly, apricot seeds (http://www.1cure4cancer.com/) cure cancer.

FOOLS! All you need is faith!

[Apollyon]

You mean garlic vodka (http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/03-07-2006/82843-garlic-0) won't cure cancer and diabetes?
It does prevent sexually transmitted diseases.

Drink some of that and there's no way you're getting laid. :)

[CurtC]

Give the man a Ceegar. Molly Ivins is my very favorite Liberal curmudgdon and coined the term "President Shrub" for GW.

Props to Reginald for a very good effort.
I tried to find the quote that we were challenged to cite its source, but I didn't even know which quote you were discussing. Was it the "My head asplode"?

Here in Texas, we've been familiar with Molly for a while. I've been familiar with her work since she was an opinion columnist for the Dallas Times Herald, which went defunct about 15 years ago. She can be funny, but her style is kind of grating after a while.

[Regnad Kcin]

Give the man a Ceegar. Molly Ivins is my very favorite Liberal curmudgdon and coined the term "President Shrub" for GW.

Props to Reginald for a very good effort.Who? ;)

[Brainster]

Who? ;)

Let me just say here that I'm an old fan of Firesign Theatre; "Everything You Know is Wrong" is terrifically apropos for this thread.:D

[Brainster]

Here's a hilarious post from a buddy of mine (http://wuzzadem.typepad.com/wuz/2006/07/911_conspiracy_.html). Conservative blog, but this post is entirely non-politics.

[ktesibios]

Who? ;)

Well, I oughta 'fess up. Until quite recently I thought your handle was "Reginald Kcin" as well. It's the curse of the fast reader- letting neural autocomplete fill in words is handy most of the time, but it can poot on strange words the same way that most spell checkers do with proper names or odd technical terms.

[Abbyas]

Barium question for those knowledgable in chemistry:

Would we not expect Jones to find barium if thermate was presend because it's a soluble element that was washed away?

[DavidJames]

Barium question for those knowledgable in chemistry:

Would we not expect Jones to find barium if thermate was presend because it's a soluble element that was washed away?
I responded to a huntsman comment about thermate with johndoes comments in the 9/11 denialist on "Hannity and Colmes" thread.

I can't pull myself away from the LC train wreck - keep up the good work.

[Senor_Pointy]

Barium question for those knowledgable in chemistry:

Would we not expect Jones to find barium if thermate was presend because it's a soluble element that was washed away?

To quote Huntsman from another thread:


Barium nitrate isn't what you'd have after the thermate went off. It'd be oxidized. You'd likely end up with Barium oxide and various other barium compounds (barium sulfate, perhaps?).

...

Frankly, you don't look for the ingredients that make up thermate, because they were involved in a multi-thousand degree fire. You look for the combustion and reaction products produced by thermate.

His argument is like claiming that a car engine can't run on gas, because no gas comes out the tailpipe.

He sums it up better than I can.

[chipmunk stew]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7976&view=findpost&p=6014416

lol.. corbin is afraid of boxcutters.. http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/000110A/http/67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/laughing1.gif
I am not ashamed of this. Are you not afraid of a man armed with a knife?
If hes trying to take over my ship. .and all he has is a boxcutter? Im gonna grab my crash axe and chop him up... while tossing fire extingushers to passengers. .you?

Or do you cower and say.. "Please dont cut me Mr. Big Bad Terrorist"

JDX, why don't you repeat that to the families of these men:

Flight 11--

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/John_Ogonowski.jpg
John Ogonowski

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Thomas_McGuinness.jpg
Thomas McGuinness


Flight 77--

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Charles_Burlingame.jpg
Charles Burlingame

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/David_Charlebois.jpg
David Charlebois


Flight 175--

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Victor_Saracini.jpg
Victor Saracini

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Michael_Horrocks.jpg
Michael Horrocks


Flight 93--

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Jason_Dahl.jpg
Jason Dahl

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/chipmunk_stew/Leroy_Homer.jpg
Leroy Homer

[DavidJames]

johndoeX crosses the line big time johndoeX has been on that side of line for a while now.

He's holding hands with jenabell there, who's also cracking wiseass jokes about being afraid of boxcutters.

[Class]

JohndoeX is saying that because some of the pilots had prior military training, they would have better weapons given to them to combat against hijackers.

Now, I am not a pilot and nor do I play one on TV, but was it standard practice before 9/11 to arm pilots with military experience knives? Or is JohndoeX talking about using their hands as weapons?

[DavidJames]

JohndoeX is saying that because some of the pilots had prior military training, they would have better weapons given to them to combat against hijackers.

Now, I am not a pilot and nor do I play one on TV, but was it standard practice before 9/11 to arm pilots with military experience knives? Or is JohndoeX talking about using their hands as weapons?I'm also curious if pilots of commerical jets need to be college grads?

[Belz...]

If hes trying to take over my ship. .and all he has is a boxcutter? Im gonna grab my crash axe and chop him up... while tossing fire extingushers to passengers. .you?

Or do you cower and say.. "Please dont cut me Mr. Big Bad Terrorist"

What a complete and utter moron.

This guy has absolutely no idea what he's saying, or of what it means when he says it.

Might as well urinate on their graves, while he's at it.

[Belz...]

JohndoeX is saying that because some of the pilots had prior military training, they would have better weapons given to them to combat against hijackers.

Now, I am not a pilot and nor do I play one on TV, but was it standard practice before 9/11 to arm pilots with military experience knives? Or is JohndoeX talking about using their hands as weapons?

Anything more than their hands, and they're in danger if Claus is ever on their flight.

[c0rbin]

Fire axes and luggage are the weapons of choice.

[Mancman]

I was really joking when I posted this... but TheQuest has tied this in (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7906&view=findpost&p=5982192) w/ the India train bombing, the NYC collapse and the foiled subway attack from last week.


I see this as a sign of desperation on their part. With Scholars For 911 Truth's credibility and the word going out rapidly, especially with the latest edition of Vanity Fair's coverage of Loose Change, the perps feel they need to counter evry single truth revelation with some new 'terrorist' act.

Fewer and fewer buy it.

Right. The 'NWO', upon seeing their 9/11 conspiracy exposed further by Loose Change gaining a mention in a magazine, decided to blow up some trains in India and kill 200 people, to remind us all that terrorism exists. That makes sense, right? (Smashes head into desk until sight becomes blurred)

It must be incredible inside the mind of a CTer, where every new attack revolves around you and your cause. Extraordinary.

[Orb]

I posted this on another thread, but it seems kind of relative to this too. The pilots of FedEx flight 705 (http://www.tailstrike.com/070494.htm) fought back against a guy armed with hammers, knife and a spear-gun! The hammer blows did the most damage to them, and the head injuries they received prevented them from ever piloting again.
It took 2 healthy men to restrain this nut, and they barely made it home alive. I don't thing anyone would voluntarily put themselves through that unless they were sure they would die anyway, like these guys did. Putting yourself and those around you in danger is not heroic.

[Blackadder_no]

I posted this on another thread, but it seems kind of relative to this too. The pilots of FedEx flight 705 fought back against a guy armed with hammers, knife and a spear-gun! The hammer blows did the most damage to them, and the head injuries they received prevented them from ever piloting again.
It took 2 healthy men to restrain this nut, and they barely made it home alive. I don't thing anyone would voluntarily put themselves through that unless they were sure they would die anyway, like these guys did. Putting yourself and those around you in danger is not heroic.

Sounds awfully similar to what happened in Norway just a couple of years ago.
(I'd post a link, but I'm 14 posts short, so google for the keywords: kato aviation security international)

[Apollyon]

I'm also curious if pilots of commerical jets need to be college grads?
No. A next-door neighbor of mine from a few years back went through pilot training school and subsequently got hired by a Delta subsidiary. He had only a high-school degree, worked as a service manager at a car dealership, and had never flown even a private plane prior to the training school.

[The_Fire]

Just to be on the same page here, I scanned these puppies (readily available in my toolbox) with a metric scale next to them.
This is what we are talking about right?

ETA:I really don't want one of these in the vicinity of my face/vunerable places.....

[Hutch]

Sounds awfully similar to what happened in Norway just a couple of years ago.
(I'd post a link, but I'm 14 posts short, so google for the keywords: kato aviation security international)


Here's an interview with the Pilot. Very lucky man--remind me not to book any flights via Narvik..

http://www.asi-mag.com/editorials/kato.htm

[Regnad Kcin]

...This is what we are talking about right?

ETA:I really don't want one of these in the vicinity of my face/vunerable places.....Nor these:

http://www.protecdirect.co.uk/Images/Products/stanley.jpg

http://www.no-treason.com/images/uploads/boxcut.jpg

[Mr. Skinny]

Regnad's link to the Stanley knife is more in line with what I'd think of as a boxcutter.

The pic in The Fire's post is what I'd consider a wallpaper tripper (or some use similar to that.)

[The_Fire]

See, I KNEW I was misunderstanding something.....But I still don't want a stanley knife near my main arteries......

[DavidJames]

I wish someone, who wasn't banned and wouldn't mind getting banned, would post chipmunk stew pictures of the pilots and ask John to call up some of their relatives and crack some of his jokes about how he would have responded to the threat. Actually, maybe not, that punk would probably do it knowing he could still cower away in his psycho ward and lol himself to sleep.

[Apollyon]

Weren't they supposedly plastic handled box cutters though?

In that case, The Fire's pictures would be more correct.

Nothing against the reverse Nick Danger ;)

[Mr. Skinny]

See, I KNEW I was misunderstanding something.....But I still don't want a stanley knife near my main arteries......
Fire, I've done a bit of do-it-yourself work, and, for me at least, a boxcutter is something that can actually cut through a heavy cardboard box (not just the sealing tape on the box). Hence the name.

I also use a boxcutter for scoring drywall, cutting insulation batts, etc. I think they are more commonly called "utility knives" these days, but I'm old enough to remember them as a "boxcutter".

Your mileage may vary, as they say.

[gumboot]

I posted this on another thread, but it seems kind of relative to this too. The pilots of FedEx flight 705 (http://www.tailstrike.com/070494.htm) fought back against a guy armed with hammers, knife and a spear-gun! The hammer blows did the most damage to them, and the head injuries they received prevented them from ever piloting again.




He knew that his wounded crewmates could not last long against Calloway, so he assisted the only way he could. He pulled the control yoke all the way back to his chest, and rolled it to the left.

The DC-10 was executing a barrel-roll at nearly 400 miles per hour—something the aircraft had never been designed to do...the three struggling men were tossed about the galley area, alternately weightless and pressed upon by three times their weight in G forces. By now, the aircraft was inverted at 19,700 feet...

...Tucker initiated a series of wild maneuvers...Tucker abruptly threw the yoke forward, and sent the plane into a vertical dive...The diving DC-10 accelerated past 500 miles per hour, then past the instruments’ capacity to register. Flight 705 was now traveling faster than any DC-10 had ever gone, and was undergoing velocity stresses that the airframe could not sustain...

...Somehow, Tucker pulled from the dive, then reached across the yoke with his left hand to cut speed. At last he grabbed a radio headset and called Memphis.

But... that can't be! The plane won't ALLOW pilots to do that, right? I mean... it just can't happen!

:confused:

Reality has this nasty habit of demolishing every CT claim.

-Andrew

[DavidJames]

JohndoeX is saying that because some of the pilots had prior military training, they would have better weapons given to them to combat against hijackers.

Now, I am not a pilot and nor do I play one on TV, but was it standard practice before 9/11 to arm pilots with military experience knives? Or is JohndoeX talking about using their hands as weapons?He jumped all over me when I said he claimed to be a working pilot. This was in the context of me asking him why he posted so much at LC.


He's also repeated multiple times he's been flying for 20 years. He also said he was in middle school when the Iran Contra story broke - that was 20 years ago.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7903

hmmmm

[gumboot]

Here's a hilarious post from a buddy of mine (http://wuzzadem.typepad.com/wuz/2006/07/911_conspiracy_.html). Conservative blog, but this post is entirely non-politics.

Their link to a conspiracy generator (http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/conspiracy.html) is great.


In order to understand power you need to realize that everything is controlled by a legion made up of midgits with help from monkey lovers.

The conspiracy first started during christmas in oklahoma. They have been responsible for many events throughout history, including the crusades.

Today, members of the conspiracy are everywhere. They can be identified by sneezing.

They want to exterminate vampire clans and imprison resisters in timaru using tricycles.

In order to prepare for this, we all must sieze. Since the media is controlled by lawyers we should get our information from innkeepers.

:eek:

-Andrew

[Class]

A woman claiming to be Wendy Burlingame, the daughter of the pilot of American Airlines flight 77 posted in this (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8013&st=30&#entry6020827) thread


I resisted posting here, but after this comment, I had to.

My name is Wendy Burlingame. My father was the pilot of American Airlines Flight 77.

My father was a graduate of the US Naval Academy, graduated with honors from the Top \"Top Gun\" school, in Miramar and flew for the Navy and served on the USS Saratoga.

You have no idea how my father felt about his country and for the military. There is no question in my mind that my father died before the plane hit the Pentagon. He would never allow his plane to hit a building that was filled with people he worked with and many he considered friends.

Reading the conspiracy theories regarding my father have made me and my family sick. We realize this it being done by sick individuals who need to deal with 9-11 in a different way than others. It does not make it any easier when you read your father was involved with the terrorists when you Google his name. I hope the people who write these things can sleep well at night

There is not a day that goes by that I don\'t think about my father. I hope you are lucky enough to never deal with losing a family member at an early age.

I will now let you get back to making fun of my father as he lays at rest in Arlington Cemetery.

[delphi_ote]

A woman claiming to be Wendy Burlingame, the daughter of the pilot of American Airlines flight 77 posted in this (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8013&st=30&#entry6020827) thread
That's the kind of thing I'm afraid of.

[CptColumbo]

The pilots fighting back against the hi-jackers is IMO even less likely than the passengers. Cockpits, from what I've seen when I peek in them, restrict your movement even more than the cabin. Plus there are things you don't want to hit accidently. Futhermore, I would assume that at least one pilot would still be strapped in, facing front.

[JamesB]

That's the kind of thing I'm afraid of.

That is the main reason I put so much time into this. They are mocking the memory of real people, and these idiots think it is a freaking video game.

[delphi_ote]

That is the main reason I put so much time into this. They are mocking the memory of real people, and these idiots think it is a freaking video game.
Can anyone post over there and let her know we exist over here and that we're trying to fight these people?

[MarkyX]

Screenshot !

http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr

I anger CTs, therefore I am Karl Rove.

[CurtC]

If that is really Burlingame's daughter posting that. It sounds plausible, but I figure there is just one Wendy Burlingame in America, but probably a hundred or more willing to post that.

[DavidJames]

A woman claiming to be Wendy Burlingame, the daughter of the pilot of American Airlines flight 77 posted in this (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8013&st=30&#entry6020827) threadHard to say if she's legit, but see how quickly that two faced lying scumbag John quickly forgot all the crap he was spewing about the pilots.

Yes, time to count to 10 and get a nice calming glass of wine :D

[Class]

I'm still trying to get him to tell me who employs him or what company he works for.

[Regnad Kcin]

Screenshot !

http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr

I anger CTs, therefore I am Karl Rove."Mark Roberts is CIA." Is it a law in CT-land that you can just make up anything without offering proof? Not that I want to move there, but it would explain a lot about its citizenry.

[Gravy]

JDX, why don't you repeat that to the families of these men:
Thanks for that post, Chipmunk.

[Regnad Kcin]

I'm still trying to get him to tell me who employs him or what company he works for.While CTers are notorious for asking questions, answering them seems to be pretty much beyond their abilities.

[Gravy]

JohndoeX is saying that because some of the pilots had prior military training, they would have better weapons given to them to combat against hijackers.
I think he means that the pilots should have known to use the tab key to select weapons, Command+F to select firing mode, left click to fire, and Command+R to reload. Did they not receive such basic training, or did they panic and forget it?

[delphi_ote]

I think he means that the pilots should have known to use the tab key to select weapons, Command+F to select firing mode, left click to fire, and Command+R to reload. Did they not receive such basic training, or did they panic and forget it?
Lag and campers will get you every time, no matter how much you've played trained.

[Brainster]

If that is really Burlingame's daughter posting that. It sounds plausible, but I figure there is just one Wendy Burlingame in America, but probably a hundred or more willing to post that.

It's reasonably plausible; don't forget that Charles Burlingame's sister Debra is obviously quite aware of Loose Change. In fact, she came up with a pretty good quip about the movie, noting that about the only thing Dylan got right about September 11th was the date.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Dylan and his Looser crowd are no different than the Reverend Fred Phelps and his evil brood.

[JamesB]

It's reasonably plausible; don't forget that Charles Burlingame's sister Debra is obviously quite aware of Loose Change. In fact, she came up with a pretty good quip about the movie, noting that about the only thing Dylan got right about September 11th was the date.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Dylan and his Looser crowd are no different than the Reverend Fred Phelps and his evil brood.

The exact quote is:

"The only thing they (the filmmakers) seem to have gotten right about the Sept. 11 attacks is the date when they occurred," says Debra Burlingame, whose brother was the pilot of American Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon.

"They aren't truth-tellers looking to save the world," she says. "They're con artists hoping to sucker conspiracy-theory paranoids or anti-government malcontents into shelling out their hard-earned dollars."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-27-conspiracies-sept-11_x.htm

Whether that is Wendy or not, I don't think there is much question that the family would feel that way about these idiots.

[Brainster]

James and I see a lot of forums in our referring logs, which shows how Loose Change is marketed. Here's a pretty good example (http://forum.ogrish.com/showthread.php?t=111377) from the Ogrish Forums.

First comes the tossup post (http://forum.ogrish.com/showpost.php?p=2247757&postcount=1):

this video is long but well worth it,
gurantted to be origonal and not a repost,
if u can argue the points made in this video be my guest
its a must see

You can see the usual impeccable spelling and grammar for which the Loosers are well known displayed here.

But the marketing runs into sales resistance (http://forum.ogrish.com/showpost.php?p=2247780&postcount=2) rather quickly on this thread:

Loose Change viewer's guide: Point-by-point analysis of what's fact and what's bullcrap in the video
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

Sifting Through Loose Change- another viewer's guide (easy to follow)
http://www.911research.wtc7.net/revi...roduction.html

Loose Marbles; 3 part debunking of Loose Change scene-by-scene
http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/...marbles-i.html

Screw Loose Change; A blog which collects various debunkings of Loose Change including a four-part list of blatant and verifiable lies in the video
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

Uh-oh! Time for some backup (http://forum.ogrish.com/showpost.php?p=2247889&postcount=14)!

Just the fact that both those towers collapsed is proof in itself. You can clearly see explosions throughout the building as it's falling down.

As the resistance continues we get a third poster (http://forum.ogrish.com/showpost.php?p=2248122&postcount=22), and the sales effort becomes more petulant, with the predictable references to sheeple, and the long, cut & paste passages:

I am really suprised comeing to ogrish forum i thought this would be the last place I would find sheeple I thought people here would not be supporting the corrupt system I guess I was wrong.

We also get the usual "watch this video" (http://forum.ogrish.com/showpost.php?p=2253799&postcount=152); I suspect that Chuck Sheen/Datars teaches this segment:

I posted some google videos in this thread yesterday...why not take a look at some of them and don't just watch the first few minutes and turn off, give them a chance.

Somebody will inevitably drag (http://forum.ogrish.com/showpost.php?p=2253749&postcount=151) the Jooooos into it:

If there is conspiracy, then there WILL be some truth in it ! Conspiracy people do not have wild imaginations; they are actually people who have some brains left that have not been affected by GMF. No terrorist network in the east had anything to do with 9/11...it was an inside job....JEWS are once again asking for trouble and by bringing down the towers they have crossed the line.

(I believe GMF stands for Genetically Modified Foods).

Note particularly that almost all of the CTers posting on the forum are "Forum Newcomers". Many of them are probably sock puppets.

The good news, of course, is that the members of the forums have the quick answer to the nutbars: Check out Gravy's critique, check out Screw Loose Change. I do wish that folks would stop linking that Sifting Through Loose Change page; maybe they think that a page which critiques from the CT standpoint is more credible with CTers?

James and I have seen hundreds of these forums in our referring logs, from groups as diverse as Danish bodybuilders, crossdressers, knife enthusiasts and Warcraft gamers. Almost every single one follows this same pattern.

[schplurg]

My gawd, you guys are still talking about this Loose Change garbage? Sorry I have nothing to add, but after 50 F'n pages (x3 threads) does anyone care?

The Bulletin Board Suicide Bombers will just keep coming at you no matter how many you shoot down with your Logic Guns. They will perpetuate this thread, as it is in their best interest to do so, no matter how pathetically ignorant they may come across.

<Shakes the whole lot o' ya by the necks>

Let it die, man!!!

[Gravy]

My gawd, you guys are still talking about this Loose Change garbage? Sorry I have nothing to add, but after 50 F'n pages (x3 threads) does anyone care?

The Bulletin Board Suicide Bombers will just keep coming at you no matter how many you shoot down with your Logic Guns. They will perpetuate this thread, as it is in their best interest to do so, no matter how pathetically ignorant they may come across.

<Shakes the whole lot o' ya by the necks>

Let it die, man!!!
I participate in debunking 9/11 conspiracy theorists here and elsewhere (not just on internet bulletin boards) because they continue to successfully spread lies about a serious issue.

Why are you posting to a topic that doesn't interest you?

[schplurg]

The topic did interest me some time ago.

I guess I posted because this thread, and how long it has lasted, is like a trophy to the Loosers. They have survived on the almighty JREF board for 200 pages! They have received enough attention, in my opinion.

I hear you though, and I do appreciate your excellent work to date.

[gumboot]

The topic did interest me some time ago.

I guess I posted because this thread, and how long it has lasted, is like a trophy to the Loosers. They have survived on the almighty JREF board for 200 pages! They have received enough attention, in my opinion.

I hear you though, and I do appreciate your excellent work to date.


These sort of discussions seem to function primarily as an information sharing centre for those who are combating these crazy ideas where it matters - in the real world.

(Interrupted now and then by a bit of fun when a LCer turns up...)

Different individuals have different knowledge and skills, and they can be attracted to a thread like this where they can offer their small piece of information that adds to the arsenal of those at the coal face.

The online side of this craziness is not what seems to concern most people - it is the real world side. It is families of victims being harassed, it is the public being bombarded with flyers and loud-speakers when they go to some event. It is people making money off blatant lies that the average person doesn't even know to question.

Ranting on a forum doesn't matter, but this other stuff does.

I'm glad these threads keep ticking over because I can offer my little tidbits of info to the vast plethora of knowledge wielded by people like Gravy, who are actually out in the real world where it does count.

:)

-Andrew

[Belz...]

Just to be on the same page here, I scanned these puppies (readily available in my toolbox) with a metric scale next to them.
This is what we are talking about right?

ETA:I really don't want one of these in the vicinity of my face/vunerable places.....

Well of COURSE, Fire. You're a girl! These guys at LC are MEN. REAL men. They don't care about that. They'll kick your butt if you threaten them with knives!! :rolleyes:

[Belz...]

But... that can't be! The plane won't ALLOW pilots to do that, right? I mean... it just can't happen!

Plus:

The DC-10 was executing a barrel-roll at nearly 400 miles per hour—something the aircraft had never been designed to do...the three struggling men were tossed about the galley area, alternately weightless and pressed upon by three times their weight in G forces. By now, the aircraft was inverted at 19,700 feet...

Weightless ??? Surely, they had Superman-like powers and could EASILY take him down!!

[Belz...]

A woman claiming to be Wendy Burlingame, the daughter of the pilot of American Airlines flight 77 posted in this (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8013&st=30&#entry6020827) thread

Damn, I hate these guys... :mad:

[Belz...]

Lag and campers will get you every time, no matter how much you've played trained.

Uh-huh. But they DO have medpacks, right ?



Right ?

[chipmunk stew]

The topic did interest me some time ago.

I guess I posted because this thread, and how long it has lasted, is like a trophy to the Loosers. They have survived on the almighty JREF board for 200 pages! They have received enough attention, in my opinion.

I hear you though, and I do appreciate your excellent work to date.I think they regarded it as a trophy early on (I remember Roxdog posting screen shots of the thread several times, highlighting the post count, and gleefully commenting "Skeptics forum STILL obsessed with Loose Change!") By their more recent behavior, I think they regard it as a thorn in their side. In my opinion, the more exposure they get the better...as long as people can't receive their message without also receiving ours. (See Brainster's post, "Viral Marketing 101", just before yours.)

[The_Fire]

Well of COURSE, Fire. You're a girl! These guys at LC are MEN. REAL men. They don't care about that. They'll kick your butt if you threaten them with knives!! :rolleyes:
In other words: The typical testoterone driven male doing a Tarzan impersonation right up to the minute when it gets serious. Then they hide behind mommys skirts complaining about "the big, bad meany".

In my, granted limited, experience, its usually not the ones screaming the loudest about "I'm the Big Bad Male of the Species" which wins a confrontation, but the silent ones which stands back and analyzes the situation a bit first. Usually because they know when they are in over their heads.

Fact is, that if you know how to wield your weapon of choice, in this case the boxcutters, anything can be deadly. Even a teaspoon. As long as it's made from metal.....ETA: the spoon that is.

[chipmunk stew]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7999&view=findpost&p=6028464

We have tried having an open forum, with active "skeptics" participating...
Selective memory.

It did not work...

I had a debate with the infamous "Gravy" regarding the demolititons, there was never a constructive centerview, he would only see it from his side, while we tried to discuss the science.
The thread he's referring to:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=1765&view=findpost&p=2997173

The problem is that the "official conspiracy theory" followers don't want to debate the actual issues.

They come from a platform, that the "official conspiracy theory" is 100% truth, so to me their arguments are flawed before we even get going.

The only way it can work is if the paper is blank and the issues and theories constructively refined.

If something is pointed out that is "clearly" wrong we have no problem with that, but when it is based on the "official conspiracy theory" that we dispute, then we cannot concede.

Maybe if the "skeptics" did not use 911myths or Gravy's guide as their bible, we could get somewhere.

The LC forums have no problems with debate when the goal is the truth, when it's distraction or "circular arguments" we have a problem.
Poor characterization.

Maybe the best way forward is for the "skeptics" to start one or two threads... with...

"Debate :" as the first part of the title, I'll try and ensure it's fair as long as the "official conspiracy theory" is not cited as gospel, but science, logic and reason is...

The only winner can then be the truth...

Maybe this is a way forward, that can be supported by the LC mods and admins.

All the best

LondonEye
http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/000110A/http/67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/thumbsup.gif

Actually I'll start a new forum with "moderated" posts under the Skeptics arena.
Intriguing idea. I'm interested to see how this goes.

[Hutch]

stew, I just linked you post with the pictures and challenge to johndoex, we'll see if that draws a reaction.

shurplug, I understand your viewpoint, but sometimes a challenge is seen and accepted and cannot be backed down from; and for a few of us (I doubt that we number more than 12-15 all told) this has become very, very important. It is a battle that we may not win (for CT'ers never realize how bad they are losing and keep coming) but it is worth the fight, IMHO

And there are plenty of other threads and posters in General skepticism to keep the vast majority happy. Now go play in the bigfoot threads!! ;) :) :D

[dubfan]

OMFG they're in Strangelove territory now.

Somebody over there is on about fluouridated water (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8039&view=findpost&p=6024725).

[Brainster]

My gawd, you guys are still talking about this Loose Change garbage? Sorry I have nothing to add, but after 50 F'n pages (x3 threads) does anyone care?

The Bulletin Board Suicide Bombers will just keep coming at you no matter how many you shoot down with your Logic Guns. They will perpetuate this thread, as it is in their best interest to do so, no matter how pathetically ignorant they may come across.

<Shakes the whole lot o' ya by the necks>

Let it die, man!!!

You do realize that the Loosers are profiled in the current issue of Vanity Fair? There are many, many people just coming across this movie for the first time and that will only increase as there is a planned "Final Cut" which will have a theatrical release in September.

[chipmunk stew]

New subforum at LC (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showforum=36)

LC Debating Forum (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showforum=36)
This forum is for the sole purpose of debating 9/11 theories (nothing else)

NOTE: Debaters must be civil, the official theory cannot be used as gospel (only a guideline), only physical evidence, science, logic and reason can be used as arguments. All debates will be fairly moderated - Rhetoric and opinions based on emotion are not welcome.

This forum is a members only forum.

[realitybites]

New subforum at LC (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showforum=36)
That's disheartening....

.... I loves me some rhetoric.

[dubfan]

You do realize that the Loosers are profiled sympathetically in the current issue of Vanity Fair? There are many, many people just coming across this movie for the first time and that will only increase as there is a planned "Final Cut" which will have a theatrical release in September.

Edits in bold.

[brodski]

You do realize that the Loosers are profiled in the current issue of Vanity Fair? There are many, many people just coming across this movie for the first time and that will only increase as there is a planned &quot;Final Cut&quot; which will have a theatrical release in September.
Do we know that it will have a theatrical release? Or is this just another of Dylan's fantasies like the UK parliament screening?

[DavidJames]

New subforum at LC (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showforum=36)
...only physical evidence, science, logic and reason can be used as argumentsdoesn't leave much for the losers to talk about?
...members only... and nothing for me to read.

[MarkyX]

You do realize that the Loosers are profiled in the current issue of Vanity Fair? There are many, many people just coming across this movie for the first time and that will only increase as there is a planned "Final Cut" which will have a theatrical release in September.

Strangely enough, my screw loose change video is being on google video via "loose change" search term or "9/11 coverup".

[Hutch]

Oh dog, now we're back to "IT WAS THE JEWS (or at least the evil Zionists and the Neo-COn Zionists)...:eek: :jaw-dropp :rolleyes:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8057

The level of stupid just went up a few more notches...