New Science Study: Chimpanzees Should be in "Human" Family

[Genghis Pwn]

http://www.stlzoo.org/zootique/assets/product_images/chimps2.jpghttp://www.imakenews.com/solarlight/solarlight_e_a000063183.JPG


"[B]iologists at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit, Michigan, provide new genetic evidence that lineages of chimps (currently Pan troglodytes) and humans (Homo sapiens) diverged so recently that chimps should be reclassed as Homo troglodytes. The move would make chimps full members of our genus Homo, along with Neandertals, and all other human-like fossil species. "We humans appear as only slightly remodeled chimpanzee-like apes," says the study."

Link to the National Geographic Article (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0520_030520_chimpanzees.html)

Homo troglodytes! I love it. :D

Apparently, to do this, you might also have to reclassify some early fossil hominoids in the homo genus as well. But just think of the implications! It would end the struggle people like Jane Goodall have ben waging for years to keep chimps from being abused and caged like dumb beasts.

One thing the chimps have going in their favor is that they, along with humans, are the only animals who are "self aware"-- meaning they can recognize themselves in a mirror, for example, rather than seeing a "stranger."

I'm not saying we should do this, but it IS interesting!

[arcticpenguin]

The classification of species, families, etc is not in any way precise, so one researcher's opinion on it doesn't have a great deal of weight.

I.e. this is one of those "fluff" articles that really won't do much to advance science in any meaningful way.

[Genghis Pwn]

You read the whole article and wrote and posted your reply in four minutes?

[Diogenes]

I'll look into this further when a chimp asks me: " Would you like fries with that? "

[Dancing David]

How about affirmative action and equal rights.

Peace

[Diogenes]

I decided to click on the link...



http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/images/030520_chimphug.jpg


Sorry I did..

Some very irresponsible behaviour going on here.. That chimp could decide to 'play', and break every (well a lot of them..) bone in that little girl's ( best guess ) body..

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
The classification of species, families, etc is not in any way precise, so one researcher's opinion on it doesn't have a great deal of weight.

I.e. this is one of those "fluff" articles that really won't do much to advance science in any meaningful way.

" Fluff " is it.. Good Ole' National Geographic, catering to the ' Gee Wiz'ers ' among us... It was incredible stuff before we had television.

For instance, the caption on thepicture I linked to below..


A little girl hugging a chimpanzee demonstrates how different humans and chimps look physically, but they are between 95 and 98.5 percent genetically identical

Crap..

A picture of a girl hugging a Squid would demonstrate how different two amimals can look.

Humans and chimps happen to look very similar..
Did anyone else miss this.?

[Cecil]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
One thing the chimps have going in their favor is that they, along with humans, are the only animals who are "self aware"-- meaning they can recognize themselves in a mirror, for example, rather than seeing a "stranger." Actually, I believe dolphins are able to do this as well.

[KelvinG]

I would be proud to share our genus with these fine animals.
Even if a chimp did once hit me over the head with a hockey stick.

[fishbob]

I'll look into this further when a chimp asks me: " Would you like fries with that? " Better start looking. There's one at my local Taco Bell drive thru asks me that all the time. And gets the order wrong every time. And can't make change. Although I'm not sure if he is "self aware".

[athon]

Originally posted by Cecil
Actually, I believe dolphins are able to do this as well.

I've no link for this, but I can tell you now this is crap.

Dolphins have no more intelligence than a poodle. Pigs have been found to be smarter.

And dolphins are pack raping monsters who are truly responsible for both Sadam's weapons program AND the resurgence of the poppy trade in Afghanistan!!

So...um...what was I saying?

Oh yeah. The old Linnean system of taxonomy is being revised slowly based on molecular biology associations rather than morphological ones.

Athon

[Cain]

Originally posted by Cecil
Actually, I believe dolphins are able to do this as well.

I've heard the same goes for the grey parrot.

[aggle_rithm]

So THAT's who that guy in the mirror is! I've been racking my brain for forty years. ;)

[Bluegill]

Originally posted by aggle_rithm
So THAT's who that guy in the mirror is! I've been racking my brain for forty years. ;)

You should celebrate by eating a nice, fresh banana. Then go taunt the drive-through cashier at Taco Bell.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
You read the whole article and wrote and posted your reply in four minutes?
No, I did not read the whole article. You will note that my comments concerned taxonomy in general, and did not depend on any specifics of that article. As a card-carrying, perfeshunal biologist I feel qualified to make such comments.

[Genghis Pwn]

I wonder how much overlap there is in Chimpanzee vs Human intelligence. For example, I wonder if the brightest chimp could outhink some severely mentally retarded people?

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by fishbob
Better start looking. There's one at my local Taco Bell drive thru asks me that all the time. And gets the order wrong every time. And can't make change. Although I'm not sure if he is "self aware".

And some clown got a huge grant to publish a paper that says they 'suspect', what we already know.....:rolleyes:

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
I wonder how much overlap there is in Chimpanzee vs Human intelligence. For example, I wonder if the brightest chimp could outhink some severely mentally retarded people?
I wonder about this too, every time I hear a presidential speech.

[Genghis Pwn]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin

I wonder about this too, every time I hear a presidential speech.

Hey, I would like to ask you to please stop trolling my threads, arcticpenguin.

[DrMatt]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn


Homo troglodytes! I love it. :D




Her name was Bertha.
Bertha Butt.
One of the Butt Sisters.
She say, "I'll sock it to ya, big boy!"

[DrMatt]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
The classification of species, families, etc is not in any way precise, so one researcher's opinion on it doesn't have a great deal of weight.


On the other hand, the graphing of population relationships and species relationships is a highly quantitative and precise field, no matter what you call the relationships.

[DrMatt]

Originally posted by athon

Oh yeah. The old Linnean system of taxonomy is being revised slowly based on molecular biology associations rather than morphological ones.

Athon

And the fact that the broad outlines are confirmed by molecular biology is remarkable.

Another thing the article got wrong was the relevance of unexpressed genes. The fact that morophologically silent stretches of DNA strongly confirm the broad outlines of the Linnean system is truly remarkable--it's a great boost to confidence in the whole of molecular biology.

[Bluegill]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
I wonder how much overlap there is in Chimpanzee vs Human intelligence. For example, I wonder if the brightest chimp could outhink some severely mentally retarded people?

I'd say there'd have to be plenty of overlap among all species, at the lower end of the intelligence scale.
Dumb As A Bag Of Hammers = Dumb As A Bag Of Hammers
but
Pretty Smart For A Human = Off The Chart For Everyone Else.

[Genghis Pwn]

Originally posted by Bluegill


I'd say there'd have to be plenty of overlap among all species, at the lower end of the intelligence scale.
Dumb As A Bag Of Hammers = Dumb As A Bag Of Hammers
but
Pretty Smart For A Human = Off The Chart For Everyone Else.

I don't mean a human vegetable vs. a slug. I'm talking about a functioning retarded human being vs a brilliant chimpanzee. Maybe a human who can barely make it into public school programs for the mentally handicapped. You could have them take tests with blocks, certain problem solving tasks, mirror self-recongnition tests, and so on. :D

[bjornart]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn

One thing the chimps have going in their favor is that they, along with humans, are the only animals who are "self aware"-- meaning they can recognize themselves in a mirror, for example, rather than seeing a "stranger."


The way this has been tested is by placing a dot of paint on the animals forehead, and seeing if it understand that it's itself that has gotten the paint. Four year old humans (or some other age, this is from memory) will touch the pain on their own head, rather than wonder about the baby in the mirror. Chimps will also do this. Gorillas were believed not to do this, but it turned out they just weren't willing to look another gorilla in the eyes. Using a camera and TV-screen, so you got an angled view and no direct eye-to-eye contact, the gorilla as well recognized that it was the one with the dot.

I think the same has been shown to work with dolphins, although I can't remember how they were supposed to show that they knew they'd been marked...

[BobK]

Maybe it's the humans that should be reclassified as Pan sapiens.:D

[Segnosaur]

I do remember reading in an antropology text books (yes, I read those things...) that the early dividing line between the genus Homo and the genus Australopithecus was the size of the brain or brain case.... Humans have a brain capacity of 1400cc; anything above half (700) would be Homo, anything less than half were in a different genus.

I'll have to go back and see if I can find the reference... (I don't know how firm that categorization was, or if it was just the measure used by one or two researchers.)

And although chimps are close to us genetically, the austraelopithicans were even closer. If you make the chimps part of our genus, you'd have to reclassify a lot of human ancestors.

[Badger]

Originally posted by bjornart


The way this has been tested is by placing a dot of paint on the animals forehead, and seeing if it understand that it's itself that has gotten the paint. Four year old humans (or some other age, this is from memory) will touch the pain on their own head, rather than wonder about the baby in the mirror. Chimps will also do this. Gorillas were believed not to do this, but it turned out they just weren't willing to look another gorilla in the eyes. Using a camera and TV-screen, so you got an angled view and no direct eye-to-eye contact, the gorilla as well recognized that it was the one with the dot.

I think the same has been shown to work with dolphins, although I can't remember how they were supposed to show that they knew they'd been marked...

I read that they put a spot of paint on their side.