Why I would never take Randi’s money.

[Diakaryu]

I’m sure this has come up before but I wanted to revisit it. Personally I have zero belief that Ghosts, God, Satan or divine intervention actually happens. But, I do have an open mind towards the “idea” that ESP could exists.

If I could actually read minds, I can’t fathom why I would care about Randi’s million.

Matter of fact not only would I not care about Randi’s million I’d avoid it at all cost.

Let’s go over an example: I can read minds so let’s say I opt to do something easy like play poker for a living. With this gift I’d be a shoe in to win almost ever single game I play. Of course if I was reasonably intelligent I’d play smart and not get my self under suspicion of cheating I’d also make vastly more playing poker then I would if I took up the challenge. What makes it worse once the world knew I had such a gift I’d never be able to do my job again. (Not to mention the mob scene of pitch forks and torches once the people of the world realize the “mind reader” could find out all their dirty secrets)

Also, can you imagine a government as paranoid as the USA allowing somebody who could actually read minds to just stroll around? He/she would be a walking breach of security.

Ok, that’s it in a nut-shell. I look forward to any additional information the community can bring me on this.

B.

[Nihilanth]

Actually, I was thinking the other day how cool it would actually be to be psychic. Well, not actually PSYCHIC. I was really thinking about how cool it would be to be able to summon demons from the nether-world to do my infernal bidding, such as change the channel on the TV when I'm too lazy to get up and do it myself. But it's the same thing.

ANYWAY, I got to thinking about Randi's million, and came to the same conclusion, but for a different reason. Randi's challenge is doing it's best from preventing the frauds and scam artists from stealing other people's money. It's important work. If I, or someone like me that could summon demons to change channels (or do anything else, but I can't think of anything more important than remote controls right now), I'd have some serious reservations about waltzing in and basically destroying one of the last bastions of rationality we have going right now. Randi is doing important work, and I'd hate to take it from him.

Thank God/god/Eris/appropriate deity/howling void in place of caring, omnipotent ruler that psychic powers probably don't exist!

[pmckean]

I generally agree with you regarding the implications of actual mindreading. If I could realistically do this I woudn't need the million either, and I'd want to keep it under wraps so that I could impress women and finish people's sentences.

Seeing as you have an open mind on the subject, though, have you a theory on how such a skill might work?

If thought is simply faint electrical activity along biological wires (nerve fibers) connecting circuit elements (neurons), then one could argue that such activity is detectable, although not by other people - as far as I know. However thought involves constant interactions with short and long term memories - reasoning, imagination etc all require pattern matching with previous stored experiences, and everyone's memory is entirely different.

Just being able to consciously monitor another person's mental activity and translate it to your own brain would mean absolutely nothing unless your brain was perfect clone, memories included, of the subject you were trying to read.

[MRC_Hans]

The purpose of Randi's challenge is not to find people with paranormal skills. First of all, it is the position of James Randi (and a lot of us here) that such skills do not exist, secondly, the idea is to expose frauds. The poeple being challenged are the ones claiming to have paranormal skills, so the secrecy motive doesn't come into it at all. They are already out there claiming to have the ability.

Hans

[Diakaryu]

Re:

Ok, I suppose the first place to look to see how mind reading would really look would be how the brain process’s information from thought to speech. A EEG or perhaps it was a MRI (not too sure at the moment) has clearly shown that the brain shows recordable activity while speaking. However, just because an incredibly sensitive machine can pick it up is it reasonably to expect a human brain to be able to?

Looking at the current state of human development I’d have to say that it is not possible with our current understanding to expect the human brain to be able to pick up at a distance the subtle changes that occur when somebody is thinking. Furthermore it’s laughable that they would somehow be able to distinguish between conversational thoughts and the brains single for digestion/breathing ect.

However, let’s keep in mind the term “Current understanding” The brain itself is a wondrous machine so to speak and still full of mystery. I don’t think its asking much to be open to the possibility of mind reading but I do think its asking a lot to take it on faith that we can.

B.

[CFLarsen]

I'm sure this has come up before but I wanted to revisit it. Personally I have zero belief that Ghosts, God, Satan or divine intervention actually happens. But, I do have an open mind towards the "idea" that ESP could exists.

If I could actually read minds, I can't fathom why I would care about Randi's million.

How about being able to do this?


Feed 90,000 starving people with rice for one year.
Keep 25 hospitals, each with 100 beds, operational for one year, saving countless of lives.
Buy 145,406 pairs of crutches for people with their legs blown off by landmines.
Buy 15,510 wheelchairs or artificial limbs for landmine victims.
Buy 58,162,500 water purification tablets, capable of cleaning 581,625,000 liters.
This will provide clean water for at least 227,641 people for one year.
Buy 46,530,000 packets of Oral Rehydration Salts to treat diarrhea, a leading cause of death among children.
Buy 7,755 school-in-a-box kits, with educational supplies for up to 80 children each.
That's 620,400 children.
Buy new clothing for 36,351 children who have lost almost everything.
Provide 116,325 infants with formula or baby food for a week.
Pay for the removal of between 2,326 and 7,755 landmines.
Each month, more than 2,000 people are either killed or maimed by landmines.

Source (http://www.skepticreport.com/tools/getrichquick.htm)

Not bad for a day's work, eh?

[Diakaryu]

According to the website the million dollar challenge is this

The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.
At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions ~~~ you know the rest ~~~
Now, just because Mr. Randi feels that nobody will ever… ever be able to claim the prize doesn’t mean that the propose and intent of the challenge is not as advertised.

In fact I’ve seen Mr. Randi himself on a TV state publicly that he would be happy to find someone who could exhibit such “abilities”. However, in the same breath he did state that he does not believe he ever will and to be honest I feel as you and likely most everybody here does. It just isn’t going to happen.

As for finding frauds, and educating the delusional I wish the JREF all the success in the world with that noble endeavor.

B.

[Diakaryu]

Nice, but not what the post is about.

B.

[CFLarsen]

Nice, but not what the post is about.

B.
You asked for reasons. Now you got'em.

[Rasmus]

You asked for reasons. Now you got'em.

Not really.

By hiding my ability to read other people's minds I would forgoe only Randi's million; I would preserve my access to a lot more of other people's money, though.

True, I would not be able to buy all those wheelchairs on the firs day. But if I opted for the wheelchairs on the first day, then I coiuld never again use my ability to generate money.

OTHO, by hiding my ability, I can generate a steady income - be that as a poker player, a negotiater, an interrogation specialist (what's the bounty on several terrorists' heads at the moment?), etc.

I am sure there are other professions, where mind reading would be afinanciually rewarding benefit.

So, if it was about the moneny, then taking the Randi Challenge might not always be the best option depending on your ability.

Suppose you could do real magic. It'd be soooo simple to launch a career like that of Siegrid and Roy, or David Copperfield nad make a lot more money in not a lot more time.

[Soapy Sam]

I'd advise against the "poker player" option. Professional gambling syndicates communicate with each other. You would be rapidly identified.
While your psychic ability might keep you one jump ahead for a time, you must sleep sometime.
Go with the interrogator notion. That way you get some heavies on your side.

[drkitten]

How about being able to do this?


Feed 90,000 starving people with rice for one year.
Et cetera.



Elementary economic error here.

Money is fungible; I could do that with any million dollars, not just with Randi's. And if I could feed 90,000 people for a year with one million dollars, I could feed 180,000 for a year with two million.

It might be in my best interests not to take Randi's million if I could get more money through not displaying my talents; if I can earn a quarter of a million dollars a year betting on horses, I'd be better off keeping my talents a secret for five years instead of announcing to every bookie in the world that I'm prescient and thereby inviting me to ban me from the track.

As Hans pointed out, the purpose of the Randi challenge is not to persuade the 'hidden' talents to reveal themselves, but to show up the public fakes.

[CFLarsen]

Elementary economic error here.

Money is fungible; I could do that with any million dollars, not just with Randi's. And if I could feed 90,000 people for a year with one million dollars, I could feed 180,000 for a year with two million.

It might be in my best interests not to take Randi's million if I could get more money through not displaying my talents; if I can earn a quarter of a million dollars a year betting on horses, I'd be better off keeping my talents a secret for five years instead of announcing to every bookie in the world that I'm prescient and thereby inviting me to ban me from the track.

As Hans pointed out, the purpose of the Randi challenge is not to persuade the 'hidden' talents to reveal themselves, but to show up the public fakes.

Rubbish. The money is there. It's up for grabs, if you can do something paranormal. If you don't want the money, feed starving people instead.

[Donn]

If you could read minds then you would know when you are in danger.
You could tell if someone recognizes you and this would help you act a role as if you were someone else.
Take the million. Then get a job working for the Insurance Industry (or the gov, or the mil, or in law).
Change your identity and you'll be just fine. Always one or two steps ahead of the minds around you.

Just ask the Mule!
:horsehead

(Nerd ref to an Asimov character)

[Rasmus]

Rubbish. The money is there. It's up for grabs, if you can do something paranormal. If you don't want the money, feed starving people instead.

That is not the point.

The point is that by taking the money that is up for grabs, I might be deverly limiting my future options.

Do you not agree that I would be limiting myself, if I took Randi's money, or are you suggesting that *if* I was limiitng myself, I should *still* take it?

[Donn]

You may be limiting yourself. You may not be.
You can't know that, you can ony read minds...

Take the mill and all the mills that will follow.
Live privately on your huge estate.
You will sense all minds approaching, so press your panic button and have armed security remove the minds. (Don't mind the armed minds)

Don't Panic!

[jstro]

Not really.
OTHO, by hiding my ability, I can generate a steady income - be that as a poker player, a negotiater, an interrogation specialist (what's the bounty on several terrorists' heads at the moment?), etc.


Yeah, good luck with that. Since there are people who do these things and are quite excellent at it without having any psychic powers, your participating in such activities would not do much to show your special abilities. Your hidden talent will remain just that, hidden and unknown, after you have left this world. Sad, really.

[Donn]

Hey - I have another career for you! Become a Mind-reading Poker player Detector! You bust 'em before they can crook the casinos. You'll make millions and you could also do a show in Las Vegas.

You'll be so rich and powerfull, no-one will ever get a pitchfork into you!

[Diakaryu]

SWEET!

Cept.. what if thanks to my super powers.. I like pitchforks?

B.

[Yahzi]

Become a Mind-reading Poker player Detector!
But to get employed as that, you would have to prove you could do it.

And those casino owners are a lot harder to convince than James Randi. Especially when it comes to parting them from their money!

:D

Edit - also, you would have to prove that lots of people could be using psychic powers. Which would kinda defeat the whole point of keeping it secret...

[Rasmus]

Yeah, good luck with that. Since there are people who do these things and are quite excellent at it without having any psychic powers, your participating in such activities would not do much to show your special abilities.

That was the point, though ...

Your hidden talent will remain just that, hidden and unknown, after you have left this world. Sad, really.

Yes. The focus of this discussion was how you could make the most money with this ability.

I do also think that I would hide my ability to read minds out of fear. I dread how some might react to it.

Revealing the ability could very well be better for mankind.

[Yahzi]

<irrelevancies>
Once again you have misread and misunderstood someone's post.

As others have pointed, the OP was about how much more you could make if you kept your powers a secret. What you do with the money you make is totally irrelevant to this conversation.

[Sithel]

Wouldn't it be better just to become the next Sylvia Browne, rather than using your extraordinary gift to cheat at cards?

You could get money AND fame, and the publicity of winning the JREF million dollar challenge would be a huge boost to your career.

Yeah, I know, she talks to dead people, and you read minds... Doesn't matter of course, if you can read the name of the deceased and other details from the mind of their living relative, you can tell them you got the info from a ghost and they'd never know the difference.

[Donn]

SWEET!

Cept.. what if thanks to my super powers.. I like pitchforks?

B.
Well... I like pitchforks too, only not in me. Ya feel me?

But each to their own...
;)

[CFLarsen]

That is not the point.

The point is that by taking the money that is up for grabs, I might be deverly limiting my future options.

Do you not agree that I would be limiting myself, if I took Randi's money, or are you suggesting that *if* I was limiitng myself, I should *still* take it?

Of course you wouldn't be limiting yourself, quite contrary. You would get all the attention needed to become an even bigger star.

I don't see why people don't use the JREF million as a catapult for fame and fortune.

[opqdan]

Sure, you could make a lot of money by keeping it a secret and carefully playing poker for a long time, but it seems that you would make more money by suddenly becoming the worlds only proven mind-reader. There is far more than 1million up for grabs to the person who can pass the challenge. Firstly, they would instantly gain international fame as a proven mind-reader. Think of the talk shows, think of the people that would pay you, heck, think how much the government would pay you. There is almost an infinite well of money out there for the guy who can read minds. How much can you earn playing poker? Why bother with keeping it a secret to only earn pocket change, when you can make real money?

[jstro]

I do also think that I would hide my ability to read minds out of fear. I dread how some might react to it.

Revealing the ability could very well be better for mankind.

You're right, of course. If people actually thought that they were seeing and experiencing real psychic phenomena, why, the pandemonium would be... it would be....

uh.. wait a sec.... lots of people already think they've experienced the powers of a real psychic. John Edward, Sylvia Browne, Uri Geller, etc., all have huge followings. I guess pandemonium might be an overstatement.

You know, Rasmus, on second thought, I think you're good to go. People are used to seeing psychic powers all the time, so you're safe. In fact you'll probably get overlooked unless you can do something beyond playing poker. Best of luck.

[drkitten]

Rubbish. The money is there. It's up for grabs, if you can do something paranormal.

Rubbish yourself. Some money is there, up for grabs, if I can demonstrate that I can do something paranormal.

Other money is also there, up for grabs, if I can do something paranormal without going through a public demonstration -- doing a public demonstration would prevent me from getting that money. (E.g., if I were known to be able to predict the future, most casinos would bar me on sight.)

Call them pile A and pile B, if you like.

if pile B is substantially larger than pile A, I'd be a fool to take Randi's million.

[CFLarsen]

Rubbish yourself. Some money is there, up for grabs, if I can demonstrate that I can do something paranormal.

Other money is also there, up for grabs, if I can do something paranormal without going through a public demonstration -- doing a public demonstration would prevent me from getting that money. (E.g., if I were known to be able to predict the future, most casinos would bar me on sight.)

Call them pile A and pile B, if you like.

if pile B is substantially larger than pile A, I'd be a fool to take Randi's million.
Depending on the time you had to throw into it.

Not even Sylvia Browne can make a million bucks on an afternoon's work.

[Beleth]

Diakaryu's got a good point. If I truly could read minds, I'd keep it under wraps as much as possible. Perhaps on my death bed I'd apply for the Challenge, but not before. Too many people with a torch-and-pitchfork attitude these days.

But people like that is not who the Challenge is for.
The Challenge is for people who take the other road -- the road to fame.
If Sylvia Browne or John Edward really truly could do what they say they can do, they would take the challenge in a heartbeat.

People we haven't heard about, the ones who don't even go as far as advertising themselves as a "psychic reader" in the Yellow Pages, would never take the Challenge even if they really did have paranormal powers, and reasonably so. Not everyone desires fame.

[brodski]

Depending on the time you had to throw into it.

Not even Sylvia Browne can make a million bucks on an afternoon's work. yes, but no one here is claiming that she ACTUALLY has supernatural powers.
If Sylvia DID have supernatural powers she would probably be a lot richer.
This is an argument lot's of people have made to MayDay when she said she could predict lottery numbers. Compared to wining the lotto every week the JREF million is nothing. However IF you did win the JREF million for psychic powers, you would likely be barred from every from of gambling in the world. The JREF prize would actually REDUCE your wealth. However this argument only works if you do not publicly claim psychic powers, and manage to keep a low profile, if you're already promoting yourself as having super powers you would have nothing to lose by winning the Randi Million.

[roger]

I would think you could make many, many millions of dollars if it were publically known that you could read minds. Go to Sun, or Apple, or whoever, and tell them that for $1 billion dollars, half of it upfront, you will give them a weekly dump of Bill Gates business plans. Or whatever, that's an example. Splash out a few million on security and you are golden.

Of course, that style of life sounds pretty unappealing, assuming government and others are 'out to get you' so perhaps the underground route is still more appealing.

[politas]

How about being able to do this?


Feed 90,000 starving people with rice for one year.
Keep 25 hospitals, each with 100 beds, operational for one year, saving countless of lives.
Buy 145,406 pairs of crutches for people with their legs blown off by landmines.
Buy 15,510 wheelchairs or artificial limbs for landmine victims.
Buy 58,162,500 water purification tablets, capable of cleaning 581,625,000 liters.
This will provide clean water for at least 227,641 people for one year.
Buy 46,530,000 packets of Oral Rehydration Salts to treat diarrhea, a leading cause of death among children.
Buy 7,755 school-in-a-box kits, with educational supplies for up to 80 children each.
That's 620,400 children.
Buy new clothing for 36,351 children who have lost almost everything.
Provide 116,325 infants with formula or baby food for a week.
Pay for the removal of between 2,326 and 7,755 landmines.
Each month, more than 2,000 people are either killed or maimed by landmines.

Source (http://www.skepticreport.com/tools/getrichquick.htm)

Not bad for a day's work, eh?

Think of the things you can do with that money
Choose any charity, give to the poor
We've noted your motives, we've noted your feelings,
This isn't blood money, it's a fee nothing more.

Sorry, just reminded me.

[tojohndillonesq]

Depending on the time you had to throw into it.

Not even Sylvia Browne can make a million bucks on an afternoon's work.

Winning the challenge requires many many days of work. Just read the Applicants Log. I've read about 100 of them start to finsh. Fricking incredible study of human frailty.

[Rasmus]

Winning the challenge requires many many days of work. Just read the Applicants Log. I've read about 100 of them start to finsh. Fricking incredible study of human frailty.

Ah, but these are people that do not have any special abilities.

If I could really read other people's minds, it wouldn't take much to get everything done: Design a protocol, negotiate (and I could easily accept any demanded changes), demonstrate my ability. I would ask that I don't have to do a preliminary test and be happy with whatever stricter rules I'd have to meet for that.

Okay, so maybe I couldn't do it *in a day*, but a total of 48 hours seems plausible, assuming I was in a hurry.

If my ability was very well developed, I would even suggest that I should read Randi's might. Let him look at a PSI-Symbol or random word from the dictionary (with the usual double blinds, recording procedures, etc.) and allow me to read his mind. It should be simple to detect the one word, and he could hardly accuse himself of cheating.

[Donn]

If you really could read minds then you will not be the only one.
You may be the first to read clearly, but there will be others who can raed mnids vrey wlel ineded.
There will be others who can 'sense' minds.
Others who can pick-up general patterns.
Others intentions-only.
Others who can ...

It's evolution. (Or, it would be, but it has not happened yet.)
So, mind-read your way into their company.
Take the JREF million - it's good advertising to attract the other X-men.
Form an unstoppable power-block of your own.
Breed us norms into extinction.

Then prance around in costumes with capes and external undies. :D

[Rasmus]

Then prance around in costumes with capes and external undies. :D

Right, you have me convinced. Expect my application any day now. (Even though this weekend is a definite no-go ...)

[chillzero]

Ah, if I could really read minds, I can just imagine my prime moment...

I use my powers to find the best way to get access to Sylvia Browne, and confront her.

Me - "Hey Sylvia, I'm psychic too."
Her - "Really?"
Me - "Yeah. I can read minds. What do you think of that?"
Her - "umm... good for you. ?"
Me - "So, what will you give me to keep quiet?"
Her - "About what?"
Me - "Oh, you know.... how you're a big fake."
Her - "I don't know what you mean! I am as pure as the driven snow, and I have a direct link to the universe, and am honest and true... oh yes, and totally pyschic. Why should I give you anything?"
Me - "You are currently thinking 'wow, someone else using the same tricks I do', and your underwear today is lime green, you dreamt about cookies last night, and just now you are reading the van beind me to see if it is a 'candid camera' setup."
Her - " ummm.... how's about a million?"
Me - " .. a month?"
Her - "ok"

[Reno]

Coming out as a mind-reader is a suicide mission. Do you really think that Dubya's puppetmasters will let you live if you might look into his mind and know that he is thinking about his pretty shoes and wondering if venison comes from Venice?

[CFLarsen]

Coming out as a mind-reader is a suicide mission. Do you really think that Dubya's puppetmasters will let you live if you might look into his mind and know that he is thinking about his pretty shoes and wondering if venison comes from Venice?

You may have a point.

How can people like Sylvia Browne, Uri Geller, James van Praagh, John Edwards, etc., go on talking to dead people who can - and will, if the money is good - reveal all kinds of secrets?

Talk about smoking guns!

[LTC8K6]

Can't you remain anonymous while taking the JREF challenge?

[Diakaryu]

I would imagine not, considering if you won they have to sign the bonds over to somebody.

I'm sure there are more reasons why but I can't see how you could hide yourself and yet still make a claim anybody would take serious.

B.

[Beady]

Also, can you imagine a government as paranoid as the USA allowing somebody who could actually read minds to just stroll around? He/she would be a walking breach of security.

If that's the case, then why haven't Sylvia et al been picked up?

[Spektator]

If that's the case, then why haven't Sylvia et al been picked up?
Are you kidding? Have you LOOKED at her face--oh, wait, you didn't mean that kind of pick-up. Sorry.

[Diakaryu]

I would imagine that it’s because the US government in its wisdom does not accept side show acts like Sylvia as anything more then entertainment.

B.

[Beady]

I would imagine that it’s because the US government in its wisdom does not accept side show acts like Sylvia as anything more then entertainment.

Sometime, during one of Sylvia's appearances on Larry King, someone outta call in and ask her:

"If you're for real, how come the Government doesn't force you to work for them?"

[Lamuella]

Depending on the time you had to throw into it.

Not even Sylvia Browne can make a million bucks on an afternoon's work.

I think the point being made here is that if someone was using their powers in secret, and making money from the fact that these powers were secret, the exposure of Randi's prize could stop them making money that way.

Of course, the sheer number of avenues open to you if you were a public psychic is so huge that it outwighs this, but that was (I think) the point being made.

[macgyver]

I was really thinking about how cool it would be to be able to summon demons from the nether-world to do my infernal bidding, such as change the channel on the TV when I'm too lazy to get up and do it myself. But it's the same thing.



Why not use the remote?

[Meffy]

Why not use the remote?
How do you suppose remote controllers work, anyway? "Modulated infrared beam?" Technically, yes. But what emits the beam? *nodnod*

[ProfXavier]

Sylvia Browne, I'd still tap it!

[Nihilanth]

Why not use the remote?

Because I ran out of batteries. I could go down to the convenience store to get more, but they're so darned expensive...

[Nihilanth]

How do you suppose remote controllers work, anyway? "Modulated infrared beam?" Technically, yes. But what emits the beam? *nodnod*

I hope you're not suggesting that demons are making the beams. That's pseudoscientific bibble-babble that I thought we left behind ages ago. Science has proven, CONCLUSIVELY, that these beams are being projected by hyperdimensional machine elves. And I'll be damned if I bend to their nefarious Keebler ways just to get my TV to stop playing Judge Judy!

[patchbunny]

Of course you wouldn't be limiting yourself, quite contrary. You would get all the attention needed to become an even bigger star.

I don't see why people don't use the JREF million as a catapult for fame and fortune.
Is your Husband/Wife having an affair? $2000 to find out!

Who in this village is an insurgent planning on killing US troops? $10,000/day!

Is your child using drugs? Only $250!

What is that politician really doing with that intern? That free! I'm rather curious, too.

Hell, you'd dwarf any gambling winnings just simply working as a reporter. The Enquirer would love you. Why would you keep it a secret?

[Diakaryu]

I'm keeping in mind that this post has become very light hearted so its with no malice I say that you and a few other posters are completely wrong about the amounts of money you can make playing poker, without super powers.. Throw in super powers and the amounts become so great it would defy logic.

Average high dollar pot is somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000.00 dollars... This average pot money changes hands ever 3-5 minutes.

Some games including the world famous Andy Beal Games were/are for Millions per hand... and I'm sure most people know by now the WSOP's grand prize is well over ten million. Randi's prize money is chump change to a Pro Poker player and down right poisonous to a poker player that could read minds.

B.

[Jon.]

Sometime, during one of Sylvia's appearances on Larry King, someone outta call in and ask her:

"If you're for real, how come the Government doesn't force you to work for them?"

If she's quick, she'll say "They don't, but even if they did, I couldn't admit it."

[GzuzKryzt]

...
Randi's prize money is chump change to a Pro Poker player and...
...


...also to Superman, Wonderwoman, Captain Yesterday and Clobberella. So we will not see them pick up the Prize. Big [Expletive Deleted] deal.

Diakaryu, your speculative nature will find beaucoup companions in any religious forum. Good day.

[brodski]

Can't you remain anonymous while taking the JREF challenge? No, it's part of the rules that the JREF is allowed to (and will) publicize all aspects of the test and the results.

[chracatoa]

Is your Husband/Wife having an affair? $2000 to find out!

Who in this village is an insurgent planning on killing US troops? $10,000/day!

Is your child using drugs? Only $250!

What is that politician really doing with that intern? That free! I'm rather curious, too.
(...) Why would you keep it a secret?

killing the guy who can learn our dirtiest secrets? Priceless.

[Strider1974]

If I had the ability to read minds I would take the JREF $1 Million and use the fame generated by my win to become world famous.
The spot light would protect me against neferous government agencies and if the likes of John Edwards can make millions as a con imagine how much you could make as the real thing.

[Hellbound]

killing the guy who can learn our dirtiest secrets? Priceless.

Being able to know you can absolutely trust your body guards, as well as reading the intent to do you harm from a mile away? Even better.

No, this wouldn't be feasible, no more so than anything else. Heck, it'd be easy to interview people for those bodyguard positions, for one, and you'd be the first to know if they became dis-satisfied with it. Depending on range, no one might ever get a good chance to take you out without using large-are weaponry.

Not to mention that, test passed or not, there'd still be a lot of people with the "believe it when I see it" attitude, and most of those who would want to (and, more iportantly, be able to) "kill you for finding out secrets" would be more interested in hiring you to find the dirty secrets of their competitors.

[macgyver]

The voices.....too many voices......in ...my.....head.....must let them out......!!!!


Honestly, if you can "hear" dead people and living people's thoughts how do you sort one voice from the psychic din?

I would just think it would be like one big stadium with the crowds shouting constantly.

[CriticalThanking]

I hope you're not suggesting that demons are making the beams. That's pseudoscientific bibble-babble that I thought we left behind ages ago. Science has proven, CONCLUSIVELY, that these beams are being projected by hyperdimensional machine elves. And I'll be damned if I bend to their nefarious Keebler ways just to get my TV to stop playing Judge Judy!
The book "The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump" by Harry Turtledove uses the premise that everything is magic. All technology we know exists, but has a consistant, magical explanation. It is very well detailed. Excellent light reading, even if just for the bad puns.

CT

[Rasmus]

Being able to know you can absolutely trust your body guards, as well as reading the intent to do you harm from a mile away? Even better.

All I have to do in oder to kill you is to stay well out of your reading range, and use poison or some other remote device finish you off. :D

Rasmus.

[Hellbound]

All I have to do in oder to kill you is to stay well out of your reading range, and use poison or some other remote device finish you off. :D

Rasmus.

Yeah, but you have to be around me to figure out my range (or get someone close, which could provide me clues). Same with poisoning, yoiu have to get access to someone who prepares my food or accept a high chance of failure or getting the wrong target (i.e.-sneak poison to food at a fast food place or something). Even the remote device has to be planted somehow, and unless it's completely unknown there's a chance of me picking up something.

Not to mention, what if I'm a precog? Or, if I'm a medium (and can prove it), then that means I really WILL come after you when I'm dead :)

But, confining it to mind-reading, there'd be some point at which you'd have to make up your mind to kill me. If you get into my range at any time after that, I could pick up on your intentions. That puts you on a "suspect" list :)

I knwo you're joking, but it's by no means a garauntee that you could do it, especially not without getting caught in one form or another. Heck, for that matter, think about coputer admin jobs. Currently, I have access to the secrets of everyone at my company, if I choose to use it. I'm sure I could find something incriminating, if I wanted to (out of several thousand users, there's gotta be one).

There'd be a transition period, I'm sure, but the chance of being killed would be much less than people like to pretend it would be. You'd have to have a person who had dirty secrets, would be willing to kill based on the probability that they might be revealed, would have the means and access to do so, and STILL they'd need some luck to get it done, with a not-neglible chance of failure and capture.

If it's someone whose dirty secrets I already know, then I have leverage, and know to watch for them already.

[chracatoa]

(...)and most of those who would want to (and, more iportantly, be able to) "kill you for finding out secrets" would be more interested in hiring you to find the dirty secrets of their competitors.

Only one can hire you; how about the rest of the 6.4 billion human beings? :)

As for getting close to you to kill you - then we would have to start being more precise about it. Can you read all minds in a giving radius or only one at a time - when you focus? Even if the former, I don't think you'd be able to process that amount of data before someone pulls the trigger.

And you could always use poisons, etc. You get the idea.

[Meffy]

Regarding guards that turn on you: Telefon.

"The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep. And miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep. Remember. Miles to go before I sleep."

=@.o=

[patchbunny]

Regarding guards that turn on you: Telefon.

"The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep. And miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep. Remember. Miles to go before I sleep."

=@.o=
Donald Pleasence would have done a lot better if he had just invested in a war dialer.

--Patch
----------
"Greetings, friend. Do you wish to look as happy as me? Well, you've got the power inside you right now. So use it. And send one dollar to Happy Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield. Don't delay! Eternal happiness is just a dollar away." -- Homer

[TjW]

The book "The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump" by Harry Turtledove uses the premise that everything is magic. All technology we know exists, but has a consistant, magical explanation. It is very well detailed. Excellent light reading, even if just for the bad puns.

CT
Well, sure. Everybody knows that sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology.

[Hellbound]

Only one can hire you; how about the rest of the 6.4 billion human beings? :)

The vast majority wouldn't think anything about the mind-reader unless it somehow affected them (i.e.-he was coming to their town, or they knew/met him, etc).

But how many would have both the desire and the capability to kill you? Would you kill someone who could read minds? KNOWING you'd be violating the law and likely to spend life in prison, if you're even successful?

That's non-sensical, a very small minority of these would be interested in killing, and a small minority of those would have the means.

As for getting close to you to kill you - then we would have to start being more precise about it. Can you read all minds in a giving radius or only one at a time - when you focus? Even if the former, I don't think you'd be able to process that amount of data before someone pulls the trigger.

But that person has to find out your limits, unless you've let that info out accurately. You'd have a chance to pick up on the recon stage of it. You're focusing on the kill event as if it stood by itself, and it can't. There's prep, recon, and other things that would need to be done to be remotely successful.

Besides, the person isn't going to pull the trigger as soon as they see you...they have to get in range (either waiting or walking up), get the weapon ready, aim, identify the target, fire...then they actually have to hit you. Plus, unless they WANT to go to jail anyway (which would pretty much be what would happen if their secrets got out, I'd assume) they have to worry about evidence left, etc.

And you could always use poisons, etc. You get the idea.

Yes, and again, you have to get the poison in place, you have to recon to determine the limits, the mind-reader has a chance of picking up info on anyone you've gotten close to, etc.

I don't beleive the risks would be any greater than those of a successful investigative reporter. THere are peopel NOW who make it their job to find out dirty secrets (reporters, undercover agents, etc). Even many of these are not killed, even AFTER they've uncovered secrets. Those willing to kill are a small minority, and I've seen nothing to suggest it might be otherwise for mind-reading.

The only time I'd even consider this as a signifigant possibility is if a person has a mind-reading power strong enough and automatic enough that it would be nigh-impossible to hide the attempt anyway.

[Meffy]

Well, sure. Everybody knows that sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Yuppers. (*glances at what looks like a wristwatch* *smiles*)

[JollyRoger]

With all the secrets that if fallen into the wrong hands, the potential, and those who keep those secrets refusing to go without a fight as a result of their present status, and pride, the way todays society would perceive such an ability if prooven scientifically, the fanatics (can you tell me my future) the witch hunters (he is evil and must be destroyed) big business ( if he can read out minds he is a threat and must be naturalized) and then their are the blind morons who feel they can exploit such abilities with no consequences (we can make money, this guy has esp and don't even know it) people are (or seem to be) to blinded by the fame and money they think they can make, and ignore the problems it can cause. they start spending money as if they have already succeeded in exploiting such things (overly confident and when their plan fails they don't see the forest for the trees all they see is lumber and houses they can build and profit from, and then how it all just slipped right through their fingers. If you could imagine

Greed has always been powerfully in the minds of some. so much so that they think only of themselves and the money thay can make, and think nothing of the lives they destroy. but this is (unfortunately) business. and in order to get to the top you have to step on a few toas. if their is such a thing as esp and mind reading you will most likely find them in mental institutions under heavy sedation complaining of hearing voices in their head.

some think that esp is the next stage in our evolution but at this point in human development politics and technology to live without keeping secrets would cause sheer kaos. perhaps IF their are such things as gods and goddesses we may have to prove that we can be completely honest with ourselves and each other before we develop such dangerous ability's, or on an evolutionary scale we must suppress such abilities until a time where the general population can handle not being able to think with out everybody listening