The anatomy of addiction

[EvilYeti]

One of my fan's PM'ed me to start a thread about the psychology of addiction.

Addiction is one of the oldest and most vexing problems facing modern medicine. Everyone knows what it is and most have experienced it first hand, yet its remains for the most part an untreatable condition. Modern methodologies do little better than no treatment at all.

I'm not going to quote the literature on the subject, instead I am going to speak of my own journey to overcome addiction and what I discovered in the process. If possible I would like to keep this discussion limited to the mental aspects of addiction, as for now we can do little for the physiological ones.

Ultimately, I feel addiction is a matter of desires. People simply crave things that make them feel good or at least help them avoid feeling bad. And addictive things certainly feel good, at least at first.

The problems that inevitably surface with addiction are also due to desire, albeit a different sort. The desire to quit. Depression is often the result of these conflicting desires. A common theme on my other threads was that no one wants to be obese. Which is mostly true, but not entirely. The real issue is the desire to feed ones cravings is stronger than the desire to lose weight.

Now my story. I used to suffer from addiction to sugar, alcohol, tobacco and marijuanna. I was also addicted to abusive relationships (towards me) with women. In addition I was often severly depressed.

The beginning of my healing process was a simple one. I was sick of it all. I hated feeling sad, all the time, and not enjoying life the way I felt I should. The next critical step was admitting to myself, honestly and as objectively as possible, what was and was not my fault. Third and most important, I made the following promise to myself:

"Whatever path my life may take from this moment, the number one priority will be my own happiness. No person or thing will ever stand in the way of that."

What was important about this promise is that I really, really believed it. What I discovered is that what separates the champions from the rabble is conviction. Look at anyone who is successful for an example of the power of conviction, determination and sheer will.

In short order I got my life back on track. My addictions were conquered, one by one. When the last of them were finished the depression died with it. The last 4 years have been the best of my life and are only getting better. My only regret is not figuring this out sooner.

I'm heading to bed for now, tomorrow I will discuss some of the pitfalls to avoid while overcoming addiction and some tips for managing depression.

[Jesse]

Evil Yeti, this is a very well written post. Congradulations on your recovery.

[Dymanic]

"Whatever path my life may take from this moment, the number one priority will be my own happiness. No person or thing will ever stand in the way of that."
I'm glad to hear that this philosophy has worked for you.

However, I feel...compelled to challenge the validity of this approach.

In the first place, what is it about this approach that is so much different from what you sought from substances? You didn't use those things because you knew they would make you miserable, did you?

In the second place, what is it about making your own happiness your first priority that is so much different from what so many do whose actions we find reprehensible?

Most importantly, I question the pursuit of happiness as a goal in and of itself. It seems to me like the harder I chase after happiness, the faster it runs away. Even if I do catch it once in a while, it feels a little...contrived.

It seems like when I place higher priority on being considerate of others, keeping the promises I make, and just generally keeping my own side of the street clean, then what happens is that happiness comes along (in its own sweet time) and ambushes me. That's the best kind.

As far as conviction, determination and sheer will, you will never see these things demonstrated with more vigor than in an addict in pursuit of his drug of choice.

I don't mean to trivialize what you have achieved so far; I know all too well how difficult it can be. But I suggest you keep the following things in mind: That each day that passes without a relapse places you in a statistically smaller group of people; in order to stay clean, you must continue to beat ever-increasing odds; and that addiction feeds on self-centeredness.

[Dancing David]

Geat post EvilYeti, I am impressed.(My own recovery did not involve a bottom moment but was difficult)

While working in menatl health I came to the conclusion that most addicts were self medicating, either to teat mental illness, or to avoid the consequences of past choices.

My main thing is that most shame based systems don't work, there was a no shame relapse prevention model a coworker of mine developed that we found very effective.

Peace

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Dymanic

Most importantly, I question the pursuit of happiness as a goal in and of itself. It seems to me like the harder I chase after happiness, the faster it runs away. Even if I do catch it once in a while, it feels a little...contrived.

It seems like when I place higher priority on being considerate of others, keeping the promises I make, and just generally keeping my own side of the street clean, then what happens is that happiness comes along (in its own sweet time) and ambushes me. That's the best kind.


Its funny, until now I have never verbalized the promise I made to myself four years ago. It was surprising difficult and the results were not entirely correct.

In retrospect I don't think happiness was really my primary goal. What I wanted was to live life on my own terms and not be dictated by other people or things. Happiness was a fortunate side effect of taking control of my life.

I was going to post more on the subject, but since the response has been fairly light (and I'm tired) I'm going to leave the thread as is.

I thank everyone for their responses and words of encouragement.

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by EvilYeti

In retrospect I don't think happiness was really my primary goal. What I wanted was to live life on my own terms and not be dictated by other people or things. Happiness was a fortunate side effect of taking control of my life.
Now you're talkin.

[jj]

Originally posted by Dymanic

Now you're talkin.

So far, so good. Now, when will you develop some empathy and stop abusing others when they disagree with you?

As far as the psychology and chemistry of addiction, I think (no, this is not to say you did wrong, of course!) it's obvious from some basic biochemestry that some people have much higher succeptability to particular kinds of chemical (at least, the evidence is still grinding away for emotional) addictions.

This is what makes (at least in my mind) drugs dangerous. You have no idea which one, if any, will get you, and which, if any, will just bounce.

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by jj

So far, so good. Now, when will you develop some empathy and stop abusing others when they disagree with you?
You have a point. Reviewing my response, I realize that I did come off harsher than I intended to (though hopefully not quite up to the standard for 'abuse' as that term applies here--unless you consider disagreement, in and of itself, to be abuse).

The mention of 'the pursuit of happiness' as a goal always gets me spinning. We are conditioned to think this way. (Erma Bombeck once said, "Life will probably never be as good as it looks in a soft drink commercial".) I feel that this can be especially dangerous for a recovering addict.

My opinion is that addiction is largely a disease (if you like that word) of self-centeredness, and most addicts have made long careers out of seeking their own happiness, however misguided their methods.

However, it sounds like some of the problems EvilYeti is describing are in a slightly different category, often referred to as co-dependancy. For a person whose biggest problems are of this nature, allowing oneself to be happy--without having to ask anyone else's permission--is major progress.

You're right, though--I pretty much jumped right down the poor guy's throat, and I owe an apology.

Sorry, EvilYeti. You're doing good. I hope you aren't subject to having the wind taken out of your sails by something some clod on a message board says.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by jj


So far, so good. Now, when will you develop some empathy and stop abusing others when they disagree with you?

As far as the psychology and chemistry of addiction, I think (no, this is not to say you did wrong, of course!) it's obvious from some basic biochemestry that some people have much higher succeptability to particular kinds of chemical (at least, the evidence is still grinding away for emotional) addictions.

This is what makes (at least in my mind) drugs dangerous. You have no idea which one, if any, will get you, and which, if any, will just bounce.

Glad you brought this up as I was going to discuss these issues in a future post about the downsides of my "recovery".

One, I've become somewhat apathetic. Very little bothers me anymore. I have no interest in the opinions others (except loved ones) have of me. This has been detrimental at times in business environments. It also makes it difficult to enter into a relationship, as I won't make concessions until there is some real emotional involvement.

Two, I lack the capacity to epathize with those who have not, for whatever reason, beaten an addiction. As I stated in my original post, addiction to me is a matter of choice and desires. If the desire to end the addiction is greater than the desire to feed it, no more addiction. People are obese because they would rather satisfy their cravings than be thin. I just can't empathize with people that make such choices in life. All my empathy is spent on those that don't have the luxury of choice.

Regarding abusive behavior, pleast read the thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19546&perpage=40&pagenumber=1) that started this whole mess. A forum member, RandFand (who is morbidly obese), was abusive to me when I, politely, disagreed with him. Others joined in. Thats when I went on the offensive, not before. They have plenty of empathy for themselves, go look around at all the support they recieved. Where's mine? (Not that I expect or want any) Why have you not chastised RandFand? Why the double standard?

Regarding biochemistry, no one can change their genetic makeup. You do, however, have the power to make choices. Biochemistry is going to drive your cravings, but its you who decides whether to act on them or not.

Also, if biochemistry is the root of all addictions, why am I not addicted to sugar or nicotine anymore? As I stated in another thread, I get sick if I eat more than a little bit. Tobacco smoke makes me leave the room. Did my brain chemistry spontaneously change when I decided to kick the habit? I doubt I'm that lucky. The fact of the matter is that while the physical mind affects the concious mind, the inverse is also true.

The reason I am so vehemently opposed to the argument that addictions are genetic in nature is that is provides an easy rationalization for deviant behavior, which all addiction is a form of. As I mentioned in my previous post, a critical first step in overcoming an addiction is acknowledging that it is primarily of your own doing. Convincing oneself that your problems are due to immutable biological processes is a surefire way to stay an addict for life.

Want an example? Look at RandFan. He's morbidly obese and always will be, for no reason other than he thinks that he has no control over the matter. Sooner or later this attitude is going to kill him. Confusing psychology for biology can be a deadly business.

[Soubrette]

EvilYeti

Thanks for the post :)

I think first though, we need to define what you mean by addiction. It is a word bandied about a lot and means many different things to many different people.

Is it the inability to give things up? Many people define it thus - giving a nice easy analogy for an addict to compare it to air :p

Is it a craving for something? I think sometimes we all crave things but we aren't addicted to them. Sometimes I'd love a marmite sandwich (mmm might have one for lunch now I think :)) but I wouldn't say I was addicted to marmite.

Is it a preference for something - I'd rather drink coffee than tea? I'd say that at the fuzzy end of use and abuse, it's hard to tell a preference from an addiction but I think the distinction is there.

For me and addiction is losing control over an aspect of your life. It becomes overly important, whether it be food, gambling or whatever. I feel it is often used to mask other problems too.

However I'm happy to go with your definition EvilYeti, whatever that may be :)

Also, if you are able - do you think you could share with us the whole process of your addiction - how you started using then abusing these substances and when it dawned on you that you were addicted?

And finally - do you think because you managed to pull yourself up by your bootstraps that has made you less sympathetic to those who seem unable to?

Thanks :)

Sou

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Dymanic

Sorry, EvilYeti. You're doing good. I hope you aren't subject to having the wind taken out of your sails by something some clod on a message board says.

Uh, I really pretty sure jj was talking about me, though to be honest I don't know for sure. He really should address people by name. I've been abusive when other people have disagreed with me in the past, usually only when provoked though.

So no apology necessary, in fact I would prefer if you retracted it!

[Dancing David]

Addistion: against speech, addicts would like to give up thier behaviors but can't (or can't without a struggle).

The last time I had substance abuse training is was another biopschosovial thing.
A. There are varying level of endorphins and other neurotansmitters in our bodies.
B. There is strong evidence that some people have a biological predisposition to addiction.
C. There is strong evidence that you learn some behaviors in addiction from your family.
D. Some people have a strong belief that many addicts are self medicating a mental illness.
E. Its seems to some that many addicts are psychologicaly running from something.

Addiction is a serious condition where the substance use becomes the primary relationship in the addicts life. Addicts frequently use to cope with the tresses of everyday life.

EvilYeti: There is this great phrase in the substance abuse field , 'mood altering behaviors'.

Peace

[Dymanic]

Uh, I really pretty sure jj was talking about me...

You ever hear the joke where this huge tough guy walks into a bar and yells, "I want every one of you sonsabitches outta here right now!", and they all hit the door--except for this one guy, who just keeps sitting there. When the toughguy looks at him, he says, "Sure was a lot of them, wasn't there?"

I guess us non-empathetic types know who we are. (And, us addict types always think it's about us).

Seriously, though, this is something that has been an issue for me. I'm working on it. It's different here than IRL. People often identify strongly with their opinions, and if you attack the opinion, it may feel to them like you are attacking them personally. Delivering an opposing view in a gentle way is a skill I admire, but have not yet honed to the fine edge some here have.

Personally, I like having my ideas challenged; it's one of the reasons I expose them here. It isn't always an entirely pleasant experience. But many times, as a result of something pointed out by someone in a place like this, I have found a place where I needed to consider another angle or do a little more research. I may sometimes be just a little bit too eager to return the favor.

I have found that getting lost in analysis of the biochemistry involved in addiction is not only irrelevant, but often detrimental to the process of recovery.

Addiction isn't hard to define (just hard to define in a way that everyone agrees on). I'd say it's when you have your whole life wrapped around some drug (alcohol is a drug, btw) and you can't get it unwrapped no matter how you try.

[Soubrette]

Dymanic

What about gambling or even food - neither of them are drugs yet people have destructive behaviours regarding them.

I struggle with my attitude to food myself :)

Addictive personalities, chemical dependance etc - I agree all give an easy way out for the addict (or substance abuser) I can't tell you how many years I spent telling myself that I just like the taste of food - for me, it's far more complicated than that - and realising it isn't a cure in itself, unfortunately :(

And realising it is hard enough :eek: I feel the mind plays curious tricks on someone who is dependent on certain behaviours, habits or drugs. I know for sure mine does. What I'd like to know is why? Why does it take years to even admit to myself that I abuse food and why doesn't seeing that make it easy to change?

Sou

[Dymanic]

What about gambling or even food - neither of them are drugs yet people have destructive behaviours regarding them.
I agree. But I'm not sure that the term 'addictions' has quite the same meaning when used to refer to these. 'Obsessive-compulsive disorder' fits better. Substance abuse certainly includes that element, but there, you also have the direct effects on brain chemistry produced by the drug. There is an OCD component of chemical addiction--the getting and using and finding ways and means to get more; fiddling around with the dope and the equipment connected with using it--this is, in a strange way, part of the buzz.

The twisted thinking that affects all the areas of the addict's life is certainly the characteristic element.

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by Soubrette

What I'd like to know is why? Why does it take years to even admit to myself that I abuse food and why doesn't seeing that make it easy to change?

Sou At the expense of sounding simplistic, and not having a real answer, you have to have a 'reason' to change.. You might replace 'reason with ' excuse '..

When I quit smoking about 20 years ago; I had fallen asleep on the couch with my head very close to an ash tray.. It was the first thing I saw and smelled the next morning, and I found myself unusually disgusted. Bringing up that image for the next few weeks, was all I needed to get past the bad cravings and was able to give it up.

I have been struggling with a weight problem for most of my adult life, and while I feel I have learned some things, and know better, I still fall into bad eating habits.

The Atkins plan has got my attention, but I know the pitfalls of trying to follow a strict set of rules and not changing behaviour patterns that result in bad choices. The other part, that I alluded to above, is finding a good reason for doing things different, and that is what I am exploring now in an effort to get control of my weight.

[Soubrette]

Dymanic

If you don't mind me asking and please feel free not to answer - would you mind sharing what you were addicted to?

And certainly things like gambling do affect your brain chemistry - you get a rush of adrenaline when you win :)

Diogenes - good luck - I'm still on my journey :)

Addiction fascinates me partly because finding out about it gives me an insight into my own tricky mind :)

Here's an (in my opinion) unscientific study on the atkins diet compared to some other popular ones in the UK :)

diet trials - a comparison of 4 diets (http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diettrials/trials_explained.shtml)

Sou

[Hellcat]

Soubrette, do you comfort eat or just enjoy food, do you ever feel hungry/full.

Feel free to not answer, it just sparked my curiosity.

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by Soubrette


Here's an (in my opinion) unscientific study on the atkins diet compared to some other popular ones in the UK :)

diet trials - a comparison of 4 diets (http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diettrials/trials_explained.shtml)

Sou

Is this on going? I do not see any information about the results so far...

[Soubrette]

Originally posted by Hellcat
Soubrette, do you comfort eat or just enjoy food, do you ever feel hungry/full.

Feel free to not answer, it just sparked my curiosity.

Food is a very complex issue for me, linked to many other factors - it's not something I feel totally comfortable with discussing except with my very closest friends. Sorry :)

I don't mind discussing addiction and my use of food in a more general way though - it's effects on me etc. The objective realisations of overweight being not very healthy as opposed to the subjective desire to continue to overeat.

Sou

[Soubrette]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Is this on going? I do not see any information about the results so far...

Try this page

results (http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diettrials/trials_results.shtml)

Sou

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Soubrette


Food is a very complex issue for me, linked to many other factors - it's not something I feel totally comfortable with discussing except with my very closest friends. Sorry :)

I don't mind discussing addiction and my use of food in a more general way though - it's effects on me etc. The objective realisations of overweight being not very healthy as opposed to the subjective desire to continue to overeat.

Sou
That's ok Soubrette, as I pushed send I realised I knew the answer. already. Sorry.

[Hellcat]

In hindsight most people have an addiction in some form or another some drink some eat some shop some gamble some smoke, some do drugs, some exercise, some starve, some are sex addicts, some addicted to prescriptive drugs( my history already known), some clean, the list is endless etc.

There is always something people do to transfer/deny their negative emotions/ stress on to.

I also now know and understand what was meant by the final realisation of a slotting a final piece of jigsaw into place. It's quite an over whelming feeling. Sorry.

[jj]

Originally posted by EvilYeti
Two, I lack the capacity to epathize with those who have not, for whatever reason, beaten an addiction. As I stated in my original post, addiction to me is a matter of choice and desires.

I could agree with that to some extent, but I'm making the point that for some people, some particular desires may be much stronger, and some less strong. From what I've observed (which would seem to be borne out by differences in receptor sensitivity in people) this is not so surprising.
If the desire to end the addiction is greater than the desire to feed it, no more addiction. People are obese because they would rather satisfy their cravings than be thin. I just can't empathize with people that make such choices in life. All my empathy is spent on those that don't have the luxury of choice.

When does a chemical dependency stop being a "choice"?
Want an example? Look at RandFan. He's morbidly obese and always will be, for no reason other than he thinks that he has no control over the matter. Sooner or later this attitude is going to kill him. Confusing psychology for biology can be a deadly business.
RandFan seems reasonably clear on this himself. On the other hand, nobody but him (and maybe not him) knows his particular set of thresholds for glucose/glycogen, insulin sensitivity, etc.

My annoyance about your abusive behavior had nothing to do with RandFan, it had to do with the abuse you hand out to people who disagree with you.

Your accusation of plagarism, for instance, is still open and unretracted.

This WILL continue until you figure out how to gracefully extract yourself from that illicit accusation.

Oh, and as to biochemistry being the "only" cause, well, since I'm neither spiritualist or dualist, I'd argue that it IS the only cause, but that some people can overcome the biochemistry easily, some with difficulty, and some only with great difficulty if at all.

Now, I'm NOT suggesting you had it easy. I've known a couple of people who just stopped obvious chemical addictions by stopping, cold, in some cases checking into a hospital when the convulsions got too uncomfortable. It can be done, at least by some people, even in the face of easy availability of the chemicals that they are hypersensitive to.

Given where my mom worked, I've also known a lot of people who were confirmed, admitted alcoholics. It was very clear that there was a wide spectrum of reasons, some people who were rational until even the alcohol in cough medicine would trigger binging, and some who only had problems in social situations, etc, etc.

I have to say that the ones who have the clear, fast chemical trigger (i.e. the ones who had to avoid cough medicine) have more of my sympathy. They also seem to be the ones who stay recovered the best, even though they seem to have the worst time of it (directly at least) chemically, perhaps because the problem is so evident.

People are complicated. '

You don't help yourself with a lack of empathy

[jj]

Originally posted by EvilYeti


Uh, I really pretty sure jj was talking about me, though to be honest I don't know for sure. He really should address people by name. I've been abusive when other people have disagreed with me in the past, usually only when provoked though.

So no apology necessary, in fact I would prefer if you retracted it!

I was in fact referring to Yeti. Didn't realize I was being ambiguous.

Yeti certainly has abused people who dare to disagree with him. He needs to get over that addiction.

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by Soubrette

Dymanic

If you don't mind me asking and please feel free not to answer - would you mind sharing what you were addicted to?
Not at all. I love talking about me.

My career as a drunk and dope fiend spanned more than twenty years, and changed over the course of that time. The early phase was recreational and experimental. I would do just about anything if it even looked like it might get me high. This approach led to some strange and most unpleasant experiences. I began to limit myself to mostly beer and pot. Later on, (my primary interests having shifted from recreation to earning a living) I discovered what methamphetamine could do for my ability to work long hours. At first, it was (of course) strictly for work purposes. After a while though, my work was strictly for dope purposes. Alcohol had always been an important part of my life, but as my crank use increased, so did my drinking. A lot. My smoking too (not pot--that gets pretty much lost in the crank/booze buzz, and like cocaine, starts to look like a waste of money). It ended up costing me a lot of stuff, including my sanity (which I got back...at least part of it...I think) as well as a perfectly good set of lungs (which I didn't).

And certainly things like gambling do affect your brain chemistry - you get a rush of adrenaline when you win
Right. Just like a dope addict gets a rush when he scores--but he gets another one when he actually does the dope.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Soubrette

However I'm happy to go with your definition EvilYeti, whatever that may be :)

Also, if you are able - do you think you could share with us the whole process of your addiction - how you started using then abusing these substances and when it dawned on you that you were addicted?

And finally - do you think because you managed to pull yourself up by your bootstraps that has made you less sympathetic to those who seem unable to?



Hi Sou,

I'm fine with the dictionary definition:

ad·dic·tion
n.

1. Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance.

2. The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.

Though I tend to favor definition 1 in conversation. The second definition sounds more like compulsive behavior.

If you only crave things sometimes, its not compulsive and its not an addiction. Same thing with preference, there is no need involved so its not addiction. Though you could be addicted to multiple substances and still prefer one over the other, I guess.

My story is pretty long and involved, so I'll try and give a condensed version. I started using alcohol in high school off and on, enough to know that I liked its effects. Once I went away to college I started drinking more regularly and also took up pot and tobacco smoking. Soon I was doing all three on a daily basis.

Eventually I dropped out of school, but I do not blame my substance use/abuse for this. I also suffered from untreated depression and ADD. This was compounded by some serious relationship issues I had with women, I suffered so intensely from heartbreak that I was completely unable to focus on anything. In fact, if I wasn't numbing myself with drugs I probably wouldn't have lasted as long as I did. I do remember at one time looking at myself in a mirror and thinking I looked like a junkie (this was after a 3 day bender) but other than that I never really thought that I had a problem.

When I moved back home I had to cut out the pot and tobacco due to my living situation. This was not too hard to do, I had an ounce of weed and a bag of Drum I brought back from school and figured when they ran out I wouldn't buy more. And I didn't. I still drank alcohol heavily and started really overdoing it on sugar, especially soft drinks.

I never dealt with my issues with women, I just subverted them. I was so jaded from my last experience at college that I just forgot about women. I didn't go on a date, or even talk to girls in a social sense, for about 4 years.

The precursor to my relapse was when I started dating again. The first girl I allowed myself to get close to turned out to be an exact repeat of my last "relationship". The girl led me on until I fell in love with her and then discarded me without a second thought. The sheer shock of this happening to me, again, drove me into the blackest depression I've ever felt. This affected my work and I was forced to quit, as I could not focus on anything but what happened to me. The weeks stretched to months and I could still do nothing but think of this girl, so I started using again. I hooked up with an old friend I had known from my college days who was a big pot & cigarette smoker. I hung out at his place constantly, drinking beer, playing vid. games and getting stoned. Once while I was drunk he tossed me a cigarette, and that was all it took to get hooked on that again.

I slowly recovered from the heartbreak, but I was unemployed, depressed and abusing drugs again. Quitting my job was the wake up call that I had some serious issues I needed to deal with. My first step was dealing with women. I was 24 and had lost my college education, a great job and year of my life to being depressed about girls. I vowed that I would not spend a single moment, for the rest of my life, being upset about women. And I haven't since, I feel I've done my time. It helped to get even with the girl, I sent her a nice long letter detailing what a piece of sh*t I thought she was. I also mailed a copy to her boyfriend to clue him in on what went on behind his back. :)

I relished the enpowerment I felt after doing this and made getting my life under my control the number one priority. Sugar was the first vice to go but easily the hardest. I had dreams about eating donuts for weeks! I gradually cut down on the drug use, finally quitting altogether when I moved to San Diego to start a new job.

And finally, since I did this all myself, with no help from drugs or therapy, yes it does make me less sympathetic those that cannot. Again, the most important things I did for myself were:

1. Accepting blame for my own mistakes.

2. Wanting to control my life more than wanting to feed my addictions.

The chronic addicts always fail at one or the other.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Dancing David

Addiction is a serious condition where the substance use becomes the primary relationship in the addicts life. Addicts frequently use to cope with the tresses of everyday life.


I've been guilty of this as well and its a very bad idea. It does nothing to address the root cause of the stress and makes controlling the addiction harder, as it provides another mechanism for rationalizing deviant behavior.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Dymanic

I have found that getting lost in analysis of the biochemistry involved in addiction is not only irrelevant, but often detrimental to the process of recovery.


I agree completely. I've even read studies that proved it.

Saying the same thing about obesity, which is really little more than a food addiction, got me in much trouble here.

It's interesting how fervently addicts will defend their coping mechanisms.

[Soubrette]

Originally posted by EvilYeti


I agree completely. I've even read studies that proved it.

Saying the same thing about obesity, which is really little more than a food addiction, got me in much trouble hear.

It's interesting how fervently addicts will defend their coping mechanisms.

I think even admitting you're an addict is a big thing. I mean an addict in the compulsive meaning of the word. Many people admit to their "addiction" to chocolate, coffee etc or feel that being an addict isn't such a big deal - I don't mean those people. I mean people who realise they abuse substances for other reasons, that their substance of choice is actually the most important thing their lives right now, that they fear a future without it. Even that they're going to have to face underlying problems they've successfully persuaded themselves they don't even have.

All this knocks your self image big time. And a large subconscious part of me wants to build up a nice positive image of myself, so, like I say, for years I told myself I just liked my food :)

It's not nice having to admit you've been lying to yourself either:p

Dymanic - what made you stop doing the drugs and go into recovery?

And EvilYeti - what do you think of the 12 step idea of addiction control - where the first thing to do is admit you've lost it and that you need help?

And are you saying that analysis of the biochemistry just gives addicts another reason to just throw up their hands and say "I can't help the way I am?"

Thanks - this is a great topic :)

Sou

[synaesthesia]

Gateway drugs are a myth.

The first drug I ever did was caffine. It was in ice cream and my parents verbally noted that fact. I ate just a little bit faster.

This of course opened the get to my cigarette smoking. My uncle gave me a 'puff' on his smoke. I obligingly put it in my mouth and huffed and puffed and blew.

"No, you're supposed to suck it in."

The five hot dogs I had eaten ended up flowing from my green face and down a car tire to much myrth and comments like: "Well, ho ho, at least he'll never smoke."

I was pretty much ok, until I ran across marijuana. You see, marijuana is a gateway drug par excellence. Not only does it make your eyes a DEMONIC RED, it makes you addicted to heroin, cocaine, PCP and GOP at the same time.

As soon as I had my first joint, I rocketed around to satiate my powerful addiction to drugs I had never done.

Then, I found my true love: the microwave. You see, if you put the microwave on low, stick a pencil in the closing sensor and turn it on with your head in it, you get a killah buzz.

This allowed me to drop all my other addictions. The moral of the story is to beat addictions with the abuse of stronger drugs until your brain melts.

[Dymanic]

Dymanic - what made you stop doing the drugs and go into recovery?

Hard to articulate that. After some years, my reliance on substances was total. Whatever the problem was, the answer was better living through chemistry. Feeling tired? We can fix that. Having trouble getting to sleep? We can fix that too. Bored? Need to be creative? Need to confront someone and can't muster the stones? Didn't matter what it was. Worked pretty well, too, for a long time. Worked ok for a long time after that. Worked sometimes for quite a while...

...then, it quit working altogether. I didn't have anything else to rely on. People around me were telling me, "You need to lighten up on the gofast". (It's important to understand, these were active, using dope fiends. When you have active, using dope fiends telling you you got a problem, you know you got a problem). Still, for a while after it quit working, I tried different things to get it working again. I figured maybe the guy I was getting my crank from wasn't giving me good product, so I started getting it from someone else. Took more vitamins. Switched from beer to whisky. Forced myself to get an hour's sleep every night whether I needed it or not. None of that worked, so I decided to quit. I discovered after several serious attempts that I couldn't quit. In fact, that was a joke. I had no idea what I was up against. What is hardest to put into words is the utter despair and humiliation I felt.
(Did I mention that my whole world was crumbling around me as all this was going on? That I was losing my business, my house, and my marriage? Probably no need. Pretty much goes without saying, doesn't it?)

At that point, the only kinds of ideas my ruined brain was coming up with was along the lines of suicide. I gave that some serious consideration--even worked out some of the details of how I would go about it, and took some of the preliminary steps. Somewhere along the line, someone suggested I might check out AA. I figured, "What the hell--if that doesn't help, I can always kill myself later". So...I went. That worked for me, as it has for many others. The drawback is that it works reeaaal sloooow. Us addict types don't much like stuff that works slow. But as I see it, that's the choice : get well slow or get sick quick.

And are you saying that analysis of the biochemistry just gives addicts another reason to just throw up their hands and say "I can't help the way I am?"
That's a big part of it, certainly. I'd say it's a distraction for someone in early recovery. There is work to do.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Soubrette

And EvilYeti - what do you think of the 12 step idea of addiction control - where the first thing to do is admit you've lost it and that you need help?

And are you saying that analysis of the biochemistry just gives addicts another reason to just throw up their hands and say "I can't help the way I am?"


I had no idea what they entailed until now.

Looking at it I can't support it because it rams God down peoples throat when they are vulnerable, which I can't condone. I happen to believe, but I feel its a deeply personal decision and there is a time and a place. People of faith should have the opition to include God and prayer in their recovery, but there should be some sort of option for those that chose otherwise.

Since my program only has two steps, there is much less that could go wrong!

About biochemistry, yes its basic psychology that people that engage in deviant behavior will go to great lengths to rationalize it. I've heard more than one obese person say "I have the fat gene, so I might as well eat whatever I want. I'm going to be fat anyway". See what happens?

[Soubrette]

Originally posted by EvilYeti


I had no idea what they entailed until now.

Looking at it I can't support it because it rams God down peoples throat when they are vulnerable, which I can't condone. I happen to believe, but I feel its a deeply personal decision and their is a time and a place. People of faith should have the opition to include God and prayer in their recovery, but there should be some sort of option for those that chose otherwise.

Since my program only has two steps, there is much less that could go wrong!

......

On the twelve steps idea - many of the people who go do believe in god it's true (I use a small g because it's a personal god not the christian one - it's a power greater than yourself) but I have also read many times that for those who don't believe in any gods - then the power greater than yourself can be the help and support you get from the group or from friends and family supporting you in battling your addiction.

Do you consider that you are recovered? Or do you think of yourself as still in the process of regaining normality and equilibrium - I'm thinking of when you were posting about the downside of recovery. Are you actively trying to regain your lost zest and empathy or do you just feel they are the price you pay for no longer being an addict, or something else entirely?

Sou

[Dancing David]

The point of the first step is to admit the lack of control, but the twelve steps are only effective for about 30% of people.

There is a great book called Rational recovery by Jack Trimppey( I am not sure of the spelling). he is about as fanatic as the AA model he derides, but he has some really good ideas.

I prefer the relapse prevention model because it focuses on the core behaviors that need to change.

Peace

[Dymanic]

the twelve steps are only effective for about 30% of people.
I'm curious as to the source of that figure, how such figures are arrived at, and how the term 'effective' is defined for the purpose. Frankly, I can't imagine the success rate being anywhere near that high (if you define success as, say, total abstinence for a year).

[RichardR]

FYI I just read this article on addiction. (http://www.reason.com/0306/fe.js.h.shtml) It is primarily about Heroin, but much of the discussion is about addiction in general.

Although popular perceptions lag behind, the point made by pain specialists -- that "physical dependence" is not the same as addiction -- is now widely accepted by professionals who deal with drug problems. But under the heroin-based model that prevailed until the 1970s, tolerance and withdrawal symptoms were considered the hallmarks of addiction. By this standard, drugs such as nicotine and cocaine were not truly addictive; they were merely "habituating." That distinction proved untenable, given the difficulty that people often had in giving up substances that were not considered addictive.

Having hijacked the term addiction, which in its original sense referred to any strong habit, psychiatrists ultimately abandoned it in favor of substance dependence. "The essential feature of Substance Dependence," according to the American Psychiatric Association, "is a cluster of cognitive, behavioral, and physiological symptoms indicating that the individual continues use of the substance despite significant substance-related problems....Neither tolerance nor withdrawal is necessary or sufficient for a diagnosis of Substance Dependence." Instead, the condition is defined as "a maladaptive pattern of substance use" involving at least three of seven features. In addition to tolerance and withdrawal, these include using more of the drug than intended; trying unsuccessfully to cut back; spending a lot of time getting the drug, using it, or recovering from its effects; giving up or reducing important social, occupational, or recreational activities because of drug use; and continuing use even while recognizing drug-related psychological or physical problems.

One can quibble with these criteria, especially since they are meant to be applied not by the drug user himself but by a government-licensed expert with whose judgment he may disagree. The possibility of such a conflict is all the more troubling because the evaluation may be involuntary (the result of an arrest, for example) and may have implications for the drug user’s freedom. More fundamentally, classifying substance dependence as a "mental disorder" to be treated by medical doctors suggests that drug abuse is a disease, something that happens to people rather than something that people do. Yet it is clear from the description that we are talking about a pattern of behavior. Addiction is not simply a matter of introducing a chemical into someone’s body, even if it is done often enough to create tolerance and withdrawal symptoms. Conversely, someone who takes a steady dose of a drug and who can stop using it without physical distress may still be addicted to it.I’m still not 100% clear on the difference between addiction and dependence. Perhaps the distinction is not that important.

[Soubrette]

Originally posted by Dancing David
The point of the first step is to admit the lack of control, but the twelve steps are only effective for about 30% of people.

There is a great book called Rational recovery by Jack Trimppey( I am not sure of the spelling). he is about as fanatic as the AA model he derides, but he has some really good ideas.

I prefer the relapse prevention model because it focuses on the core behaviors that need to change.

Peace

David - do you think you could give a brief description of the relapse prevention model?

And Richard - what a great article. I've read about week end drug users before - although I've also read that a percentage of them do succumb to addiction. Unfortunately it was some years ago in a sunday supplement - so no I can't cite a link :p

I wonder if the knowledge of the addictiveness of a substance can help there - like the guy who likes one cigarette a day. If he ignores the wish to increase that and I can't believe the cravings can be that strong on one a day then he may never be an addict, perhaps.

Sou

[RichardR]

Originally posted by Soubrette
I've read about week end drug users before - although I've also read that a percentage of them do succumb to addiction. Unfortunately it was some years ago in a sunday supplement - so no I can't cite a link :p

I wonder if the knowledge of the addictiveness of a substance can help there - like the guy who likes one cigarette a day. If he ignores the wish to increase that and I can't believe the cravings can be that strong on one a day then he may never be an addict, perhaps.From personal experience, and from observing those close to me, I would say it is more to do with self-image.

If you have a good self-image, you tend to view substances as merely fun, entertainment. The people who have the most trouble are those who need the substances as an escape from the real world. They escape from their own poor self image by doing the substances, they like the world they have created, and so have less reason to return to reality. That is my unscientific, subjective observation, anyway.

Alternatively, reality is a crutch for people who can’t handle drugs. Take your pick. ;)

[jj]

Originally posted by EvilYeti

I agree completely. I've even read studies that proved it.

Really, how, then, does these studies suggest getting over serious chemical heroin addiction, for instance, without paying very serious attention to the chemistry involved?

If you don't, the patient will not survive. It's that simple.

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by jj

Really, how, then, does these studies suggest getting over serious chemical heroin addiction, for instance, without paying very serious attention to the chemistry involved?

If you don't, the patient will not survive. It's that simple.
For the person in recovery--especially early recovery, this is (IMHO) at best a waste of time, and at worst a relapse research project. That doesn't mean no one should pay attention to it.

Most people tend to view the short term difficulties as the worst. My experience is that this is the least challenging part of recovery. For a heroin addict (most of whom have kicked many, many times) this can be dangerous, especially when someone with a big habit goes cold turkey. Barbituate withdrawl is the worst, though--and even for very heavy users of alcohol alone, the potential risk (of convulsions mainly) is often worse than heroin.


Originally posted by RichardR

The people who have the most trouble are those who need the substances as an escape from the real world.

I agree that self image is where it lives, but I don't think it's always about escape. It's more about coming to depend on the drug effects as substitutes for coping skills. It's possible for a person, despite being addicted to a substance, to face the same life situations as anyone else, but when he does, he relies on the drug as his source of strength.

That is what can make long-term recovery so difficult--new coping skills must be grown from the ground up. It is also the reason that AA has been a successful venue for recovery--there seems to be something about the group environment that is conducive to the development of these new skills. Might be any number of other types of groups that would work as well.

[RichardR]

I agree that self image is where it lives, but I don't think it's always about escape. It's more about coming to depend on the drug effects as substitutes for coping skills. It's possible for a person, despite being addicted to a substance, to face the same life situations as anyone else, but when he does, he relies on the drug as his source of strength.

That is what can make long-term recovery so difficult--new coping skills must be grown from the ground up. It is also the reason that AA has been a successful venue for recovery--there seems to be something about the group environment that is conducive to the development of these new skills. Might be any number of other types of groups that would work as well. That's very true. Thanks for adding that.

[Soubrette]

Originally posted by RichardR
Alternatively, reality is a crutch for people who can’t handle drugs. Take your pick. ;)

Didn't Robin Williams say that before he became clean :D

Also your idea of using drugs as a coping mechanism intrigues me Dymanic - I was under the impression (and from my own experience) that actually it's an avoidance of coping. Get drunk and not have to face my problems for a while, eat compulsively for the same reason etc.

So the underlying problems never get solved - you may dwell on how fat you are and have a poor self image but you still turn to food in times of stress, crisis, boredom or whatever.

I've also noticed (only anecdotally) that the few friends I know with drink problems dwell on their problems for years sometimes, yet never seem to get over them. One friend had a bitter breakup with her boyfriend about 5 years ago. She drinks alot and is still very bitter about it - yet most people would have started to put that behind them after a while. So she dwells on the problem but can't forgive and let it go. I've several friends who have the same MO on that one.

So I suppose what I'm asking is does addiction stunt you in some way - prevent you from growing as a person? I would say yes - but I'm interested in other opinions here.

Sou

[Dymanic]

Didn't Robin Williams say that before he became clean
Actually I think it was Timothy Leary originally.

I think that avoiding dealing with problems (challenges is the word I prefer) is certainly typical addict behavior. But there are also many addicts who are quite functional. For them it isn't an escape, because they aren't escaping -- they're dealing with stuff just like everybody else.

An addict's life includes some extra challenges, which is another reason for him to avoid dealing with a lot of stuff -- he's got enough on his plate already just trying to get his head right. I think a lot more of them would seek recovery if they realized that in the long run it actually is the easier, softer way.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by Soubrette

Do you consider that you are recovered? Or do you think of yourself as still in the process of regaining normality and equilibrium - I'm thinking of when you were posting about the downside of recovery. Are you actively trying to regain your lost zest and empathy or do you just feel they are the price you pay for no longer being an addict, or something else entirely?


I would say I'm recovered. I've gotten my relationship issues under control, I don't get abysally depressed for months when I get rejected by a girl or end a relationship. I don't smoke pot or tobacco at all. I still go out and have drinks now and then, but its not a daily thing anymore. I still eat some sugar, but only for dessert and in small amounts.

Regarding your second question, its something else entirely. The way I see world today is different than the way I saw it before I began my recovery process. So in my mind there is nothing to regain, the past version of my psyche does not exist anymore.

I still have empathy, but only for people that have admitted to having a problem and are actively working on fixing it. I've been there and know how difficult that can be. I see the rest as chosing to live with their addictions.

The worst price I've paid would have to be that I don't love women the way I used to. It's become more like a "family" love than truly passionate love. Maybe that is the price I pay for heartbreak insurance, but I sometimes wonder if its worth it. :(

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by EvilYeti
I've gotten my relationship issues under control...
...The worst price I've paid would have to be that I don't love women the way I used to. It's become more like a "family" love than truly passionate love.
I'm not sure that's something that is ever really under control, but when you quit looking for a relationship to fix you, everything changes. One thing I experienced for the first time in recovery was that of having close female friends who were just friends.
The way I see world today is different than the way I saw it before I began my recovery process.
There it is.

My opinion is that addiction, as much as anything, is an attitude; it's a twisted way of seeing the world. It isn't something that is easily changed overnight -- in fact, a lot of my sick subroutines are still running; it's just that I am more easily able to recognize that, and (hopefully) arrest the process before I jump out and do something stupid. This is where frequent contact with other recovering addicts can be beneficial; it's always easier to spot twisted thinking in somebody else.

[spoonhandler]

Dyanmic wrote: My opinion is that addiction, as much as anything, is an attitude; it's a twisted way of seeing the world. Your comments here, as well as others, made me think of similar issues in depression: poor coping mechanisms, unrealistic expectations and conflicting desires, twisted thinking and the need for the sufferer to be able to see through all this to find clarity.

[Dancing David]

The relapse prevention model was based upon harm reduction models.

There are two parts to the relapse prevention model that my co-worker developed.

Non-emergency: Take care of yourself.

Emergency: Get out and get help.

Taking care of yourself means keeping doctor's appts etc., but it also means creating a social support network, learning leisure skills, maintaining employemnts. All the cool things that go into self care. It also includes the actual relapse prevention planning, when, where and what choices led to the last relapse, how could choices be altered to avoid relapse. Like walking on a different street than the one with the bar.

Emergency planning means identifing when a relapse is actually occuring, removing yourself from the situation and then seeking out support. An important part of the emergency planning is the commitment to end a relapse as soon as possible, not to say well, I may as well continue.

Most of this was done in a group setting, we never shamed our participants and always encouraged to come to group unless they were actively using. The ultimate goal is abstinence but there are a lot of half steps in between.

The biggest barrier is that we were working with socially isolated individuals and asking them to give up thier social support network, ie thier using buddies.

Peace

[Dymanic]

Emergency planning means identifing when a relapse is actually occuring
The relapse experience is one I cannot talk about from personal experience, at least not as far as an actual return to active drug use -- I haven't had anything stronger than a cup of coffee since my first AA meeting. There have been many times however, when I was in relapse mode as far as my thinking was concerned -- I was a walking bomb, lacking only a spark to light the fuse. Many people in AA would say that it was God (as they understand him) that got me through those times; I say it was mostly dumb luck.

Many addicts will stop for a period of time, but relapse when life hands them something they can't handle. They lose their job, a relationship goes on the rocks, they get mud on their new shoes, somebody looks at them funny -- newly recovering addicts don't handle these kinds of stressors well.

This can just as easily be the case when things are going well. Maybe some accomplishment like getting a new job -- this sort of thing tends to be inconsistent with an addict's self-image; he may find himself in over his head, and sabotage his own situation. This may not take the form of an immediate return to active drug use right away, but in some other kind of irrational behavior.

[Phaycops]

I just wanted to say a couple things, ask a couple questions, etc.

First, from what I understand, there are 12-step type programs for non-believers. So there's no need to automatically dismiss the program style, because they don't all rely on God/god/whatever.

Secondly, I was wondering if the mental health field still acknowledged the difference between drugs that are physically addictive (that cause physiological changes in the body, like heroin), and drugs that are emotionally or psychologically addictive (pot, in particular). It seems, based on the current understanding of things like compulsive gambling, sex, overeating, etc., that this distinction is meaningless at this point. Although wouldn't treatment have to be different for a drug that makes you very ill when you try to kick it?

My third question/comment is about self-mutiliation (as something I've had some close contact with). Is this an addiction or another sort of mental disorder? Just wondering, 'cause it seems like the actual criteria for an addiction is the disruption of normal life, and the focusing of energy exclusively on the behaviour/drug.

Also, is there any evidence that certain people can be dependent on that adrenaline "high"? Could it be akin to the sensitivity someone else mentioned for certain drugs?

A final observation: It seems to me that addiction counseling and recovery are much more complicated than anyone thought maybe 25 years ago or so, back when it was just drugs. Interesting thread!

[Dancing David]

Yes there are 12 steps for atheists.

The vote is still out on wether a drug has to be physically addictive to be addictive, that is why most substance abuse standards are now behavioral.

Sure are adrenaline junkies.

Peace

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by Phaycops

it seems like the actual criteria for an addiction is the disruption of normal life, and the focusing of energy exclusively on the behaviour/drug.
It may just be that 'addiction' turns out to be another one of those really difficult to define terms.

It isn't hard to find artists, scientists, computer programmers, or any number of people who are intensely focused on a particular activity to the exclusion of practically all else. We tend not to use the term 'addiction' to apply to these kinds of activities because we view them as worthwhile. Even if we recognize that excellence in such specialized areas often comes at a high price in terms of personal relationships, etc., we look at this as a necessary sacrifice, and admire those who are noble enough to make it.

It seems to me that addiction counseling and recovery are much more complicated than anyone thought maybe 25 years ago or so
Back then people were simpler. Actually, back in the fifties, they were really simple.