Luke T.
21st May 2003, 03:29 PM
This is a guide for anyone who would like to join me on stormfront.org.
First of all, I don't recommend you directly go to stormfront.org from here. They use vBulletin, just like JREF, and the admins are able to tell the last web site that you came from. If you have posted a lot of personal information about yourself on here, you might not want them to know you came from here, if you follow my drift.
I usually jump there from a neutral site like Google.
This may be paranoia on my part, as I have found the White Nationalists not to be a bunch of loons, as some might think, but you never know about the lone loon or two who might be lurking about.
Also, I don’t know how the rest of JREF would handle the sudden appearance of White Nationalists on the JREF forum. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for that. :D
Okay. Some pointers.
First of all, if you are anti-White Nationalism, you will be known to them as an "anti," and must restrict your posts to the "Opposing Views" section of the forum. You may surf the entire site, but do not post to a topic outside of the Opposing Views section. If you see something in a topic outside of that area that you want to discuss, you can start your own topic about it in Opposing Views.
Second, it is best if you throw out any preconceived notions you may have about White Nationalism. Nazis, Hitler, gas ovens, skinheads, etc. No two WNs are the same. Some are exactly as one would imagine, some are not.
Ask questions. Learn.
Never, ever, laugh at White Nationalism or WNs. I came within a hair's breadth of being banned just for making a joke that anyone who wouldn't do Halle Barry had to be one sick person. :D
That went over very badly. And for a while after that, I wasn’t allowed any sense of humor at all. I made a sarcastic comment about something one day after the Halle Barry joke and was told that was two strikes against me.
Once you have earned a little respect from them, you may exchange humorous comments as long as it is not at the expense of them or their philosophy.
Do not allow yourself to get emotional. That will also get you banned.
It is very easy to get banned. WNs are real big on free speech, except when it comes to antis.
Your skeptical skills will be tested like they never have been before. You must be logical, concise, and able to back up your claims. And they have heard it all before, so be ready for it.
The smartest of the WNs tend to congregate in the Opposing Views section. I cannot stress enough that you will be debating some of their brightest people. The occasional yahoo drops in, but they rarely stick around. And the occasional idiot drops in who is against Nazis and says something stupid like “You guys suck,” or “I’m ashamed to be white because of you guys,” but they don’t hang around long either.
The really do appreciate a well thought out argument. You will earn their respect if you give them a good fight. Just make sure you stay rational and calm at all times, even though some WNs get very ugly and toss ad homs at will. Don't be baited into replying in kind as the moderators will swoop down and eject you immediately. The moderators read every anti post.
At first, all new posters are put on a time delay. This can be extremely frustrating. The moderators say this is to prevent emotional or stupid tirades from the occasional trolls. Once you have established yourself as a stable individual, you may petition the moderators via PM to remove the time delay. This usually takes an anti up to 50 posts on their forum before they feel you are trustworthy. Even after they remove the time delay, they watch you like hawks.
Okay. So what is the philosophy of White Nationalism all about?
Keep in mind that I said no two WNs think the same way. I will outline very broadly what their philosophy is, and try to include the variations of each idea within the philosophy. If there is one thing a WN hates, it is for an anti to make an assumption of what they believe. This can seem pretty ironic considering how often they will guess not only what you think, but your ethnicity, based on little or no clues from you whatsoever.
Avoid the use of phrases that attempt to lump a single WN in with all WNs. They hate that. If you are talking to a WN and say "all you guys think is...." then he will slam you for it. He will demand you show him where he said that.
Very basically, WNs believe that the races would all be happier if they lived apart. Some believe it is inevitable that this will happen. Just about every WN denies that this should occur by force, or that if WNs ever take over a nation, that they will commence some kind of genocide. Although there are some who have boldly proclaimed to me that genocide would be an option, most WNs vehemently deny this.
Should a White Nation come to pass, WNs feel that many non-whites would feel compelled to leave such a place on their own and would move to a country where they could find their own kind. Those non-whites who did not move of their own volition would be forced to emigrate. Some WNs say that these people would be financially compensated for the trouble. And there are some WNs who feel that those non-whites who remained would be sterilized.
I have found that most of the WNs I talk with strongly deny that they are racists. And they especially deny that they hate anyone. If you accuse a WN of hating non-whites, you better be prepared to show exactly where he used hateful language. I have had a lot of conversations just trying to figure out what the WN definition of "hate" and "racism" are. It's a topsy-turvy world.
WNs like to talk about the lower IQs of blacks. And the high crime rate amongst blacks. And the high proportion of blacks in our prisons. And so on and so on. But you will be hard pressed to get a WN to say they think blacks are "inferior," because that would imply the WN is a "supremacist," and they don't like that label. Although one or two have come right out and admitted to being supremacists.
Some WNs think that once all the races live separately, that the black nations will most likely self-destruct. I have more than once been asked to provide the name of any nation that is not white or asian that is successful.
WNs don't begrudge the existence of the state of Israel, which was initially very surprising to me, considering how much they slander Jews on Stormfront. But to WNs, Israel is proof that we will all end up separate. What they do begrudge Israel is its influence on the U.S.'s policies.
Even though an anti may be a political conservative, WNs have another catch-all for them. "Cultural Marxism." I was given a primer from a female WN on cultural Marxism. If you want one yourself, go to
http://www.geocities.com/roundtable_research_editions/frankfurt_resed.html
Or just look up the "Frankfurt School" on google. Basically, the Jews control our political process, and are behind the "politically correct" movement, and are seeking to diminish white influence around the world.
This same female WN told me she believed only white male property owners should have the right to vote in America! :eek:
There is a camp in the WN community that has a huge resentment about the Reconstruction period following the Civil War. They believe that is when the Constitution was irrevocably damaged, and the “multiculturalists” began their takeover of our country. America was on the path away from its glorious past as a White Nation. I am being extremely general about this.
WNs also believe our immigration policy is seriously whacked. They believe we should have stuck to the Naturalization Act of our forefathers, which was written in the 18th century. It is their belief that our immigration program has allowed so many non-whites in, that it is now impossible to stem the flow. No politician would dare anger the large portion of the immigrant population by suggesting we curb immigration now. And so the disappearance of whites in America is virtually assured. And this was once a proud white nation. And these large numbers of immigrants are a net negative on our economy. Especially in the border states. So we are doomed.
Antis are called all kinds of other names. Multicults. Cultural Marxists. Neo-cons. And that is just the nice stuff.
There are a lot of symbolic numbers and phrases you may see. Most are self explanatory, or you will pick them up as you go along. Other symbology is included in usernames or signature lines. For example, “88.” This comes from the fact that the letter H is the eighth letter of the alphabet and represents “HH,” or “Heil Hitler.” You see 88 a lot on Stormfront. You may also see the expression “14 Words.” This comes from David Lane, a member of The Order, and means, “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children,” which is 14 words long.
You will see a few swastikas and other nazi symbols around Stormfront. Be careful not to assume all WNs idolize Hitler. Opinions on Hitler come in all flavors. Some do idolize him. Some don’t like him at all. Many think he was given a bad shake in the history books. Discussions on the Holocaust are common, and WNs either believe it didn’t happen at all (very rare to find a WN who believes this, though), or believe it was overplayed/exaggerated by the Jews. Some believe the concentration camps were no different than the U.S. concentration camps of Japanese, and that the Jews were well treated, and rightly imprisoned as threats to Germany’s goals. Saboteurs, whatever. And the only reason they were malnourished is because by the end of the war, all of Germany was malnourished and why give what little food was available to enemies of the state?
As for the death camps (DO NOT confuse the two), “where is the evidence?” Have fun with that. I highly recommend you read any past topics on Stormfront about the Holocaust before stepping into that mess.
By and large, though, everything keeps coming back to race. There is one camp in the WN community that believe a “racial holy war” is inevitable. Good luck finding out what that means. Not all of them believe it actually means armed conflict. There is one camp that believes that the assumption of power by “multiculturalists,” or non-whites, should actually be encouraged so that whites will see how much they make a mess of things and come to their senses and return the U.S. to its proper place. Yeah.
I haven’t found any great fans of the Constitution. Many are well-versed in U.S. history, though. But their interpretations vary widely.
Expect to make some of the longest posts of your life. It has taken me over an hour to answer some of their posts. I feel they deserve the best I can give them. Since I am in a very tiny minority over there, I have to fight the good fight. And any dodge to their questions or claims is hailed as a victory on their part.
I have found that when I treat them with respect, the best of the best tend to flock to the topics I am engaged in. And there is mutual respect and some fascinating conversation. It is well worth the trip and the effort.
Hope I see some of you over there. Frankly, I am exhausted from dealing with these guys by myself. Not that there aren’t any other antis over there, it is just that there are so few that we tend to be divided and conquered. Each of us is wrapped up in our own separate topics. It gets tiring. And I don’t necessarily agree with the political viewpoints of some of the other antis there. Some of them are Marxists, and I disagree with them probably more than I disagree with WNs. :D
First of all, I don't recommend you directly go to stormfront.org from here. They use vBulletin, just like JREF, and the admins are able to tell the last web site that you came from. If you have posted a lot of personal information about yourself on here, you might not want them to know you came from here, if you follow my drift.
I usually jump there from a neutral site like Google.
This may be paranoia on my part, as I have found the White Nationalists not to be a bunch of loons, as some might think, but you never know about the lone loon or two who might be lurking about.
Also, I don’t know how the rest of JREF would handle the sudden appearance of White Nationalists on the JREF forum. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for that. :D
Okay. Some pointers.
First of all, if you are anti-White Nationalism, you will be known to them as an "anti," and must restrict your posts to the "Opposing Views" section of the forum. You may surf the entire site, but do not post to a topic outside of the Opposing Views section. If you see something in a topic outside of that area that you want to discuss, you can start your own topic about it in Opposing Views.
Second, it is best if you throw out any preconceived notions you may have about White Nationalism. Nazis, Hitler, gas ovens, skinheads, etc. No two WNs are the same. Some are exactly as one would imagine, some are not.
Ask questions. Learn.
Never, ever, laugh at White Nationalism or WNs. I came within a hair's breadth of being banned just for making a joke that anyone who wouldn't do Halle Barry had to be one sick person. :D
That went over very badly. And for a while after that, I wasn’t allowed any sense of humor at all. I made a sarcastic comment about something one day after the Halle Barry joke and was told that was two strikes against me.
Once you have earned a little respect from them, you may exchange humorous comments as long as it is not at the expense of them or their philosophy.
Do not allow yourself to get emotional. That will also get you banned.
It is very easy to get banned. WNs are real big on free speech, except when it comes to antis.
Your skeptical skills will be tested like they never have been before. You must be logical, concise, and able to back up your claims. And they have heard it all before, so be ready for it.
The smartest of the WNs tend to congregate in the Opposing Views section. I cannot stress enough that you will be debating some of their brightest people. The occasional yahoo drops in, but they rarely stick around. And the occasional idiot drops in who is against Nazis and says something stupid like “You guys suck,” or “I’m ashamed to be white because of you guys,” but they don’t hang around long either.
The really do appreciate a well thought out argument. You will earn their respect if you give them a good fight. Just make sure you stay rational and calm at all times, even though some WNs get very ugly and toss ad homs at will. Don't be baited into replying in kind as the moderators will swoop down and eject you immediately. The moderators read every anti post.
At first, all new posters are put on a time delay. This can be extremely frustrating. The moderators say this is to prevent emotional or stupid tirades from the occasional trolls. Once you have established yourself as a stable individual, you may petition the moderators via PM to remove the time delay. This usually takes an anti up to 50 posts on their forum before they feel you are trustworthy. Even after they remove the time delay, they watch you like hawks.
Okay. So what is the philosophy of White Nationalism all about?
Keep in mind that I said no two WNs think the same way. I will outline very broadly what their philosophy is, and try to include the variations of each idea within the philosophy. If there is one thing a WN hates, it is for an anti to make an assumption of what they believe. This can seem pretty ironic considering how often they will guess not only what you think, but your ethnicity, based on little or no clues from you whatsoever.
Avoid the use of phrases that attempt to lump a single WN in with all WNs. They hate that. If you are talking to a WN and say "all you guys think is...." then he will slam you for it. He will demand you show him where he said that.
Very basically, WNs believe that the races would all be happier if they lived apart. Some believe it is inevitable that this will happen. Just about every WN denies that this should occur by force, or that if WNs ever take over a nation, that they will commence some kind of genocide. Although there are some who have boldly proclaimed to me that genocide would be an option, most WNs vehemently deny this.
Should a White Nation come to pass, WNs feel that many non-whites would feel compelled to leave such a place on their own and would move to a country where they could find their own kind. Those non-whites who did not move of their own volition would be forced to emigrate. Some WNs say that these people would be financially compensated for the trouble. And there are some WNs who feel that those non-whites who remained would be sterilized.
I have found that most of the WNs I talk with strongly deny that they are racists. And they especially deny that they hate anyone. If you accuse a WN of hating non-whites, you better be prepared to show exactly where he used hateful language. I have had a lot of conversations just trying to figure out what the WN definition of "hate" and "racism" are. It's a topsy-turvy world.
WNs like to talk about the lower IQs of blacks. And the high crime rate amongst blacks. And the high proportion of blacks in our prisons. And so on and so on. But you will be hard pressed to get a WN to say they think blacks are "inferior," because that would imply the WN is a "supremacist," and they don't like that label. Although one or two have come right out and admitted to being supremacists.
Some WNs think that once all the races live separately, that the black nations will most likely self-destruct. I have more than once been asked to provide the name of any nation that is not white or asian that is successful.
WNs don't begrudge the existence of the state of Israel, which was initially very surprising to me, considering how much they slander Jews on Stormfront. But to WNs, Israel is proof that we will all end up separate. What they do begrudge Israel is its influence on the U.S.'s policies.
Even though an anti may be a political conservative, WNs have another catch-all for them. "Cultural Marxism." I was given a primer from a female WN on cultural Marxism. If you want one yourself, go to
http://www.geocities.com/roundtable_research_editions/frankfurt_resed.html
Or just look up the "Frankfurt School" on google. Basically, the Jews control our political process, and are behind the "politically correct" movement, and are seeking to diminish white influence around the world.
This same female WN told me she believed only white male property owners should have the right to vote in America! :eek:
There is a camp in the WN community that has a huge resentment about the Reconstruction period following the Civil War. They believe that is when the Constitution was irrevocably damaged, and the “multiculturalists” began their takeover of our country. America was on the path away from its glorious past as a White Nation. I am being extremely general about this.
WNs also believe our immigration policy is seriously whacked. They believe we should have stuck to the Naturalization Act of our forefathers, which was written in the 18th century. It is their belief that our immigration program has allowed so many non-whites in, that it is now impossible to stem the flow. No politician would dare anger the large portion of the immigrant population by suggesting we curb immigration now. And so the disappearance of whites in America is virtually assured. And this was once a proud white nation. And these large numbers of immigrants are a net negative on our economy. Especially in the border states. So we are doomed.
Antis are called all kinds of other names. Multicults. Cultural Marxists. Neo-cons. And that is just the nice stuff.
There are a lot of symbolic numbers and phrases you may see. Most are self explanatory, or you will pick them up as you go along. Other symbology is included in usernames or signature lines. For example, “88.” This comes from the fact that the letter H is the eighth letter of the alphabet and represents “HH,” or “Heil Hitler.” You see 88 a lot on Stormfront. You may also see the expression “14 Words.” This comes from David Lane, a member of The Order, and means, “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children,” which is 14 words long.
You will see a few swastikas and other nazi symbols around Stormfront. Be careful not to assume all WNs idolize Hitler. Opinions on Hitler come in all flavors. Some do idolize him. Some don’t like him at all. Many think he was given a bad shake in the history books. Discussions on the Holocaust are common, and WNs either believe it didn’t happen at all (very rare to find a WN who believes this, though), or believe it was overplayed/exaggerated by the Jews. Some believe the concentration camps were no different than the U.S. concentration camps of Japanese, and that the Jews were well treated, and rightly imprisoned as threats to Germany’s goals. Saboteurs, whatever. And the only reason they were malnourished is because by the end of the war, all of Germany was malnourished and why give what little food was available to enemies of the state?
As for the death camps (DO NOT confuse the two), “where is the evidence?” Have fun with that. I highly recommend you read any past topics on Stormfront about the Holocaust before stepping into that mess.
By and large, though, everything keeps coming back to race. There is one camp in the WN community that believe a “racial holy war” is inevitable. Good luck finding out what that means. Not all of them believe it actually means armed conflict. There is one camp that believes that the assumption of power by “multiculturalists,” or non-whites, should actually be encouraged so that whites will see how much they make a mess of things and come to their senses and return the U.S. to its proper place. Yeah.
I haven’t found any great fans of the Constitution. Many are well-versed in U.S. history, though. But their interpretations vary widely.
Expect to make some of the longest posts of your life. It has taken me over an hour to answer some of their posts. I feel they deserve the best I can give them. Since I am in a very tiny minority over there, I have to fight the good fight. And any dodge to their questions or claims is hailed as a victory on their part.
I have found that when I treat them with respect, the best of the best tend to flock to the topics I am engaged in. And there is mutual respect and some fascinating conversation. It is well worth the trip and the effort.
Hope I see some of you over there. Frankly, I am exhausted from dealing with these guys by myself. Not that there aren’t any other antis over there, it is just that there are so few that we tend to be divided and conquered. Each of us is wrapped up in our own separate topics. It gets tiring. And I don’t necessarily agree with the political viewpoints of some of the other antis there. Some of them are Marxists, and I disagree with them probably more than I disagree with WNs. :D