Liberal? Conservative?

[Nyarlathotep]

With congressional and gubanatorial elections coming up in 2006, I am beginning to see the first wave of campaign ads in my neck of the woods. The way these idiots throw around the terms liberal and conservative convince me more and more that the term has lost all meaning and each has just become a pejoritive for 'those dickwads in the other party' or a term for 'those really cool guys in our party'.

One commercial talks about the 'liberal voting record' of a couple of possible congressional candidates. Apparently liberal means 'they do things we don't like'. Not one thing they mentioned was anything remotely close to what I think of as 'liberal' either in the classic sense or even in the sense that common misuse has inflicted upon it; No mention of supporting an increased minimum wage, abortion, gun control, welfare, etc. Nope, their 'liberal voting records' consisted solely of support for various tax increases. Tax increases, sadly, are one thing that both liberals and conservatives are happy to slap on you.

Another commercial is for a candidate for Governor. This one doesn't attack anyone but it irritates me anyway. First of all, the candidate starts out with 'I am not a politician, I am a successful businesswoman'. Not a politician, eh? I'm sorry, I thought you WERE a politician. I suppose the mistake was understandable on my part since you were....ohhhhhh, I dunno....running for political office. I thought that was the very definition of a politician, my bad.

Anyhoo, she's a Republican and the rest of her commercial is pretty much pointing out that she is for all the stuff every other Republican is for. So why vote for her instead of some other Republican? It's simple, she's a CONSERVATIVE Republican. I know, because she said so, repeatedly. In fact, never in her commercial does the word 'Republican' appear without being prefaced with the word 'conservative'. I guess all of the other Republican candidates for governor who are running for governor and support the exact same things are a bunch of filthy liberals.

The terms liberal and conservative have become a couple of strawmen, with no real meaning anymore. It shows politicians can mess up anything, even the language.

(yes, I know it seems I am mostly slamming the Republicans here, but only because they seem to be first out of the gate with political ads this time around, and their's are all I have seen recently)

[gumboot]

I sometimes feel sorry for you Americans... do you guys have *anyone* else to vote for?

-Andrew

[brodski]

I sometimes feel sorry for you Americans... do you guys have *anyone* else to vote for?

-Andrew yes, but the alternatives may be worse.
http://www.badnarik.org/badnarik.php :p

[hgc]

Here they come!

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/54344a152e8c067d.jpg

[Nyarlathotep]

I sometimes feel sorry for you Americans... do you guys have *anyone* else to vote for?

-Andrew

What Brodski said.

[slingblade]

Apparently liberal means 'they do things we don't like'. Not one thing they mentioned was anything remotely close to what I think of as 'liberal' either in the classic sense or even in the sense that common misuse has inflicted upon it [...]

The terms liberal and conservative have become a couple of strawmen, with no real meaning anymore. It shows politicians can mess up anything, even the language.

They aren't the only ones. It seems contagious, and virulent, and has spread rapidly through the populace. For instance, there's the n00b who posted the other day, complaining about (paraphrasing) "pro-teacher, anti-student Liberals." I just wanted to cry. Of course, the n00b was talking about privatizing public education, which is neither a liberal nor a democratic notion, so I shouldn't be surprised. But I was.

I've recently and firmly abandoned this term. If anyone should ask me what my politics are, I won't be saying "Democrat" or "Liberal" anymore. There's no point; no one knows anymore what they mean.

I'll give some folks a hint, though: back in the days of the dinosaur, liberals used to be for the underdog, and for social progress. In any power structure, the liberals would likely not be taking the side of those in power, but rather of those subject to that power. Thus a liberal wouldn't be "anti-student," and probably wouldn't necessarily be "anti-teacher," either, as both are subject to the same power structure. However, a liberal would lean more heavily to supporting student needs first, above anyone else, as students have the least power in that structure.

So your statement: "Apparently liberal means 'they do things we don't like'" is dead-on, and such thinking has rendered the term meaningless.

Liberal is now a negative epithet, nothing more.

[Disco]

I'll give some folks a hint, though: back in the days of the dinosaur, liberals used to be for the underdog, and for social progress. In any power structure, the liberals would likely not be taking the side of those in power, but rather of those subject to that power. Thus a liberal wouldn't be "anti-student," and probably wouldn't necessarily be "anti-teacher," either, as both are subject to the same power structure. However, a liberal would lean more heavily to supporting student needs first, above anyone else, as students have the least power in that structure.

So your statement: "Apparently liberal means 'they do things we don't like'" is dead-on, and such thinking has rendered the term meaningless.

Liberal is now a negative epithet, nothing more.

I usually call myself a classic "bleeding-heart" liberal, when talking to someone I know considers themselves conservative. They know exactly what I mean, and I really embrace the term.

I'm not going to let some closed-minded regressives turn it into some kind of negative epithet. I seem to recall another group taking a derogatory term & embracing it in their own community. :D

MHB

[Nyarlathotep]

Liberal is now a negative epithet, nothing more.

Yep, it and conservative have now become labels that each side attaches to their respective strawmen. The straw liberal is a granola eating hippy who wants to jack your taxes through the roof so he can pay gay abortion doctors to burn flags and then give the left over money lazy welfare recipients. The straw conservative,meanwhile, is working hard to turn the country into a Christian theocracy, while taxing the poor into even deeper poverty so we can pay for the invasion of France that we are planning. Both sides create these strawmen, and then attach the labels to their opponents, so that after they kick the strawman's butt, they can convince their supporters that they have thoroughly trounced their opponent. Feh.

The pathetic thing is, that I have noticed both sides can see when the other guys are indulging in that sort of stupidity, but are totally oblivious to when their own side does it. Double feh.

[slingblade]

I'm not going to let some closed-minded regressives turn it into some kind of negative epithet. I seem to recall another group taking a derogatory term & embracing it in their own community. :D

MHB



:) You just go ahead with that, and let me know how you do.

[Tony]

I've recently and firmly abandoned this term. If anyone should ask me what my politics are, I won't be saying "Democrat" or "Liberal" anymore. There's no point; no one knows anymore what they mean.


Be like me and say you're independent.

[slingblade]

Be like me and say you're independent.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I will. Thanks, Tony; good idea!

[Disco]

:) You just go ahead with that, and let me know how you do.

What, calling myself a bleeding-heart liberal? I've been doing it for decades. Works just fine. :D

MHB

[Dr Adequate]

The straw conservative,meanwhile, is working hard to turn the country into a Christian theocracy, while taxing the poor into even deeper poverty so we can pay for the invasion of France that we are planning. Now, is it real people on the Left who make these accusations ... or is it the Slag Fairy?

I don't remember anyone complaining about the imminent invasion of France. Perhaps you could back up your claims with quotations. Or ... or perhaps you can't.

[Tony]

Yeah. Yeah, I think I will. Thanks, Tony; good idea!

I detect a hint of sarcasm.

[Nyarlathotep]

Now, is it real people on the Left who make these accusations ... or is it the Slag Fairy?

I don't remember anyone complaining about the imminent invasion of France. Perhaps you could back up your claims with quotations. Or ... or perhaps you can't.

Stop pulling that 'Slag Fairy' **** with me, I never ****** used the ****** term, you ****** jackass.

As for the invasion of France, I took that for a pretty obvious bit of hyperbole, esepcially since it was in the sentence right after the straw liberals who want to pay gay abortion doctors to burn flags.

[slingblade]

I detect a hint of sarcasm.

NO! Honest, not at all. I think "independent" is a good term. I honestly can't see a situation in which I might give an opinion and have someone hurl back, "you only think that because you're one of those Independents!"

I really think it's a good term to use. Honest.

[Huntster]

I sometimes feel sorry for you Americans... do you guys have *anyone* else to vote for?

-Andrew

Thanks for the thoughts.

I tend to vote third party when possible. Lots of my friends tell me that I'm "throwing away my vote", but usually I disagree.

I'm also very capable of voting for a major party candidate specifically because I'm terrified of his/her major opponent.

Of the two major parties, I tend to vote Republican. There seem to be too many individual issues important to me that the Democrats oppose me on.