(ed) Question about IQ required to be declared legally retarded

[Sal The Butcher]

i would like to know if anyone knows if this is true, i have looked for some kind of reference to this but i cant figure out what to search for,

i once heard a story that the IQ required to be declared legally retarded was something like 85, maybee 80, and there was a war(i THINK it was WW2)

the military administered IQ tests to recruits, and they wouldnt train those who were declared retarded, too many people fit into this category and the number required to be decalred legally retarded was moved down to what it is today (i think its in the 70's) to allow for more recruits to be trained


does anyone know if this is true at all?

[richardm]

According to this article (http://www.articlecity.com/articles/kids_and_teens/article_148.shtml)


According to an article "The General Intelligence Factor", Scientific American Presents "Exploring Intelligence", pg. 24, 1999, author Linda Gottfredson writes:
"Adults in the bottom 5% of the IQ distribution (below 75) are very difficult to train and are not competitive for any occupation on the basis of ability. Serious problems in training low-IQ military recruits during World War II led Congress to ban enlistment from the lowest 10% (below 80) of the population, and no civilian occupation in modern economies routinely recruits its workers from that below-80 range."




Whether that's true or not I don't know. Certainly I've been in several civilian occupations and nobody's ever asked me to take an IQ test, so how would they know what percentile I'm in?

[Ducky]

Hone your google skills young grasshopper.

http://users.ipfw.edu/abbott/120/IntelligenceTests.html

During World War I, the U. S. Army saw a need for a quick-to-administer intelligence test to be used when deciding what sort of advanced training a recruit would receive. Psychologists Lewis Termin, Robert Yerkes, and others collaborated to develop two versions of the test, known as the Army Alpha and Army Beta tests. The Alpha test emphasized verbal abilities and was given to everyone. The Beta test emphasized non-verbal abilities and was to be given to those who performed poorly on the Alpha test and were suspected of having language problems.

A large number of Army recruits took the Alpha version of the test and after the war, the data were analyzed, with a surprising result. It appeared that the average recruit had a mental age of around 13 -- a mild level of retardation. The reason for this had to do mainly with the level of education of the recruits rather than low native intelligence, but Yerkes and others concluded incorrectly that the intelligence deficit was real, sounding alarm bells about the "menace of the feeble-minded."

[Gravy]

Don't know if this is a skepticism topic, Sal. Here's the Wikipedia entry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation

[Ducky]

Actually Gravy, he's on topic, just wrong subforum. there was a huge debate not too long ago in the Education subforum about IQ tests. It got pretty heated.

[Sal The Butcher]

Don't know if this is a skepticism topic, Sal. Here's the Wikipedia entry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation
its a query, what section would this be better suited in?

[Gravy]

its a query, what section would this be better suited in?
Probably Science/Math/Medicine, Education, Forum Community, or just Google it.

[Gravy]

Actually Gravy, he's on topic, just wrong subforum. there was a huge debate not too long ago in the Education subforum about IQ tests. It got pretty heated.
Ah, yes, subforum is what I meant. Thanks.

[Ducky]

But yeah generally something like IQ would be best suited for the education or science/medicine subforum. I can't remember where that huge debate was recently. Though forum search for IQ shoulod dig it up for Sal.

[Sal The Butcher]

ok, i didnt realize there were so many sections here, for some reason i didnt notice the whole 'general academics' section

[Ducky]

It's a very large place Sal. :)

Last I heard the database itself was over 6gigs in size. We've addressed alot of topics over the years. Just ask some of the old timers here.

[Ducky]

Thanks to the mod who moved this thread!

[articulett]

According to this article (http://www.articlecity.com/articles/kids_and_teens/article_148.shtml)




Whether that's true or not I don't know. Certainly I've been in several civilian occupations and nobody's ever asked me to take an IQ test, so how would they know what percentile I'm in?

Oh, so does that mean we shouldn't encourage Interesting Ian to enlist?
Or is pompous naivte' still okay if you can get past the 80 mark?

[CaveDave]

AIUI, there once were three catagories of sub-normal intelligence:
Idiot, Imbecile, and Moron. They had cutoff numbers something like 30, 50, & 70, but I don't remember the order or the exact numbers.

I think this system fell out of use in the 1950s or so.

HTH

Dave

[Metullus]

*snip*
Idiot, Imbecile, and Moron. *snip*They still post here occasionally...

[drkitten]

AIUI, there once were three catagories of sub-normal intelligence:
Idiot, Imbecile, and Moron.


Is it just me, or does this sound like a creationist law firm?

[andyandy]

anyone who regards IQ as an accurate measure of intelligence should be declared legally retarded :)

[Lamuella]

if you gert the chance, I hightly recommend reading "The Mismeasure Of Man" by Stephen Jay Gould

[articulett]

AIUI, there once were three catagories of sub-normal intelligence:
Idiot, Imbecile, and Moron. They had cutoff numbers something like 30, 50, & 70, but I don't remember the order or the exact numbers.

I think this system fell out of use in the 1950s or so.

HTH

Dave

I remember that. Isn't cretin supposed to be on the list--(this was way back when we were insensitive)--we now we invoke the continuum from mentally to development disabled--with low, moderate, and high functioning to modify.

In genetics, the doctor would write FLK in the chart to run chromosomes. FLK meant "funny looking kid". It's a tad cruel, eh? We now say "dysmorphic"--I think that is nice enough to be a screen name.

[articulett]

Is it just me, or does this sound like a creationist law firm?

or the blessed trinity of said creationist--
(with ignorance as their sacred screed)

[articulett]

According to this article (http://www.articlecity.com/articles/kids_and_teens/article_148.shtml)




Whether that's true or not I don't know. Certainly I've been in several civilian occupations and nobody's ever asked me to take an IQ test, so how would they know what percentile I'm in?

S.A.T. tests show a strong correlation with I.Q. test and used to be allowed for mensa membership.

In the U.S. it recently becaume illegal to execute the mentally retarded (although it might be okay to let them play with knives, guns, poisonous chemicals and electric chairs.) The state decide on the requirement for "official retardation and tests are administered in jail--I'd be smart enough to fail--but I think the prosecution would find an easy time proving me a liar. I guess I won't kill anyone just yet.

[CaveDave]

Found this on Urban Dicyionary. (Like THAT is authoritative)

----------
Intelligence Quotient Scale:

Moron = 50-69

Imbecile = 30-49

Idiot = 29 & below
-----------

Don't know if that can be trusted.;)
Cretin wasn't listed by that contributor.<shrug>

Cheers,
Dave

[articulett]

Found this on Urban Dicyionary. (Like THAT is authoritative)

----------
Intelligence Quotient Scale:

Moron = 50-69

Imbecile = 30-49

Idiot = 29 & below
-----------

Don't know if that can be trusted.;)
Cretin wasn't listed by that contributor.<shrug>

Cheers,
Dave

Yeah...yeah--but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Read between the numbers--49.5 = cretin.
29.5=mental equivalent to a box of hair.

HA!

[Dancing David]

The current system goes soemthing like this:

(the number may be way off)

Borderlibe Intellectual Functioning IQ 77-85, these people are not considered to have a developmental disability, they are very much like veryone else, unless you knew where to look you would think they were totaly normal, they are very capable of work and functioning well.(They show a paucity of vocabulary more than anything else, and often have severe learning disabilities.)

Mild mental retardation: can often function quite well, but may lack any sort of problem solving skills and need assistance in daily tasks, sometimes not.Can often live independantly. Social skills are usualy impaired to some extent.

Moderate mental retardadtion: Need considerable assistance in daily living, often very limited speech, considerable guidance and structured living. Social skills are often grossly impaired.

Profound mental retardation: Needs assistance in all areas of life, often can not function independantly, sometimes lacking any social skills or impulse control at all.

[Dancing David]

PS, the food assistance programs that are part of the Welfare State came about because of the number of recruits who had developmental and physical inadequacies due to mal-nutrition! Something like 25%.

[Jeff Corey]

"Cretin" does not refer to any particular IQ range, but is an old medical term for people suffering from hypothyroidism, which can lead to varying degrees of retardation.
According to B. F. Skinner, the term was originally the Medieval French word for "christian". Modern French is "chretien". Supposedly a group of people in the French Alps suffered hypothyroidism ( due to lack of iodine?) and the French king decreed they be called Cretins rather than "those stupid people up in the mountains".

[Rat]

...Mild mental retardation: can often function quite well, but may lack any sort of problem solving skills and need assistance in daily tasks, sometimes not.Can often live independantly. Social skills are usualy impaired to some extent.Eek! I have the social skills of a rock. Now I'm retarded as well?

Cheers,
Rat.

[Harlequin]

I recall a case recently of someone who was too stupid to recieve the death penalty, but through years of legal fighting had gradually learned enough to qualify for execution...

[Dancing David]

Eek! I have the social skills of a rock. Now I'm retarded as well?

Cheers,
Rat.

I doubt your grab the breasts of any woman within range or masturbate in public. At least I hope not.