And what's the harm in believing in magic?

[Darat]

We have a lot of fun here, we do a lot of navel gazing and we fight among ourselves but lets remember why the JREF exists, why Randi does what he does and why in the end it does matter whether people hold irrational beliefs or not

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5129418.stm
...snip...

It identified 74 cases of abuses linked to witchcraft allegations, many of which had common factors - such as a child being scapegoated, family structure and disability.

...snip...

[aggle-rithm]

We have a lot of fun here, we do a lot of navel gazing and we fight among ourselves but lets remember why the JREF exists, why Randi does what he does and why in the end it does matter whether people hold irrational beliefs or not

This sort of thing fills me with despair. Superstition is so entrenched in some cultures, it seems impossible to ever overcome it. Especially since the "enlightened" cultures can be superstitious in their own right.

I wonder if the UK govt. would turn on homeopathy if it were discovered that children were being denied legitimate medical care in favor of magic water?

[SteveGrenard]

Reminds me of one of my favorites....

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/datemovie/doyoubelieveinmagic.htm

[Nihilanth]

More than anything else, abuse linked to witchcraft accusations really, really piss me off. That and abuse related to "exorcisms" are the two issues where I won't even try and be nice to the people saying they believe in it.

I had this conversation with my dad, who either has softened his skeptical views (he thought "What The Bleep Do We Know" was a great film) or is just trying to call me out. He was asking why it's a big deal, why do I have to keep arguing with people when their beliefs aren't hurting anyone. I told him that it's not an intellectual decision, it's not like I ENJOY arguing with people (I actually don't. It makes me nervous and insecure), but it's an emotional one. Morally, I can't sit there and listen while potentially harmful information is being bandied about like it's true. And just because it hasn't hurt anyone YET doesn't mean it never will, and are we to wait for another damned witch hunt before we decide maybe I should argue the validity of someone's claim, because if you wait that long then you kinda miss the point.

[jon]

I wonder if the UK govt. would turn on homeopathy if it were discovered that children were being denied legitimate medical care in favor of magic water?

My understanding is that is not uncommon - but is tolerated so long as the conditions being 'treated' with magic water are (relatively) self-limiting. Some skin conditions, migraines, hey fever, that type of thing...

[RandFan]

But let's make certain that we are not involved in a witch hunt. I'm not being cheeky. Innocent people have been imprisoned by accusations of child abuse linked to witchcraft.

Child abuse pisses me off but skepticism also demands that we are careful in our accusations. Remember what happened in Salem and understand that this still happens to some extent to this very day.

[T'ai Chi]

Morally, I can't sit there and listen while potentially harmful information is being bandied about like it's true.

Would you call yourself a watchdog of morals?

[CFLarsen]

Reminds me of one of my favorites....

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/datemovie/doyoubelieveinmagic.htm

This is about superstition-based abuse of young children, and all you can contribute is: "Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart".

What the hell is going through your head, Steve?

[CFLarsen]

Would you call yourself a watchdog of morals?

This isn't about morals. It's about preventing people from being hurt and abused by superstition.

[Senor_Pointy]

My understanding is that is not uncommon - but is tolerated so long as the conditions being 'treated' with magic water are (relatively) self-limiting. Some skin conditions, migraines, hey fever, that type of thing...

...And we all know what happens when people with serious diseases are "diagnosed" by homeopaths.

[Nihilanth]

Would you call yourself a watchdog of morals?

No, I just stand up for what I believe in. My personal code of ethics demands it. It's got nothing to do with other people's morals and everything to do with potentially harmful delusion other people accept instead of reality.