Repeats Himself Silently to Himself

[RSLancastr]

I have a friend with the odd habit of "mouthing" some of the things he says right after he says them aloud.

He might say aloud "So, how is your mother?" and then immediately after, will silently mouth that same sentence.

He doesn't do it all the time, or even most of the time.

It seems as though when he does it, he is going over what he just said to make sure he got it right. (He does it often with the puncline of a joke, for instance) I've asked him about it, but he doesn't know why he does it, and gets frustrated when it is mentioned.

Today, while looking up something else on Wikipedia, I ran across this entry on Echolalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia). If Wiki has it right, Echolalia is the repeating aloud of something someone ELSE has said. That's similar to what my friend does, but he doesn't do it aloud, and - as far as I have seen - only repeats what he himself has said.

Anyone familiar with this?

[Ryokan]

Sounds more like some sort of tick.

[aggle-rithm]

Sounds like he's insecure about his diction.

I noticed something interesting about myself a number of years ago: When I mentally rehearsed a conversation with someone prior to having that conversation, I always imagined myself speaking in the voice of the person I was planning on talking to. Apparently, that was just a weird habit I got into at some point. The same might be true of your friend.

[aggle-rithm]

Sounds more like some sort of tick.

Hopefully, it's not the kind that carries Lyme disease.

[DavidJames]

Hopefully, it's not the kind that carries Lyme disease.yes, yes, be careful he doesn't bite you.

[Janus]

I do this sometimes if I'm not happy with my pronunciation. I did speech therapy, and although I wasn't taught to do this, I found that was useful whenever I noticed something wrong with my pronunciation to practices it as soon as possible.

[Dogdoctor]

When I was a kid I used to repeat what someone said while they were still talking just to irritate them. If you know them well enough you can anticipate what they are saying and it helps. I could sometimes start echoing before they finished a word. It often is so disconcerting to have an echo that they loose track of what they were saying. The silent repetition thing I have seen before but not sure what it meant when someone did that.

[Dark Jaguar]

I have a friend with the odd habit of "mouthing" some of the things he says right after he says them aloud.

He might say aloud "So, how is your mother?" and then immediately after, will silently mouth that same sentence.

He doesn't do it all the time, or even most of the time.

It seems as though when he does it, he is going over what he just said to make sure he got it right. (He does it often with the puncline of a joke, for instance) I've asked him about it, but he doesn't know why he does it, and gets frustrated when it is mentioned.

Today, while looking up something else on Wikipedia, I ran across this entry on Echolalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia). If Wiki has it right, Echolalia is the repeating aloud of something someone ELSE has said. That's similar to what my friend does, but he doesn't do it aloud, and - as far as I have seen - only repeats what he himself has said.

Anyone familiar with this?

Don't worry about it. I used to do the same thing when I was a kid. Sometimes I didn't even notice until it was pointed out to me. I too very rarely did it.

I'll be honest, there is no real "reason". It just seems to "happen". I wouldn't call it a "tick", because I can control it if I'm actively trying to prevent it, and it's not that hard. To be honest I was never really comfortable in social situations, though that likely traces to the rather terrible time I had back in school. To this day I haven't the slightest idea why I had such a tough time, I just "wasn't liked". At any rate, now I do what I'm pretty sure most people do and just prepair a long list of responses "just in case" I'm in certain kinds of conversations. I just sorta start doing it sometimes when I'm trying to fall asleep, starting almost unconciously. Pretty sure most people learn to do that on their own much younger, because I can't see how they find just the right thing to say so easily otherwise.

[Dymanic]

Since I'm currently reading a book on obsessive compulsive disorder, it's probably no surprise that this clearly sounds to me like a manifestation of that condition (or maybe a form of Tourette's syndrome, a related disorder).

I once had a friend who did the same thing, except that the second pass wasn't performed silently; he simply said everything twice. The second pass wasn't performed silently; he simply said everything twice.

Wasn't there a cartoon character or something that did this?

[Dark Jaguar]

What I understand is obsessive compulsive disorder is, well, isn't it an obsessive COMPULSION to do something? I didn't really have that. It was just sort of an unconcious thing, rarely happened, and it turned into something easy to control. From what I've heard, obsessive compulsive disorder is anything but easy to control and it dominates the mind making it very hard to cope with things, like a "switch" acknowledging they already did something didn't quite "click". (Wow, that sounds amazingly programatic...)

Anyway, I highly doubt that little habit from back then was that. On the other hand, this person the OP is speaking of may be different. I can only speak of my own experience being amazingly similar, except I got over it, so it's hard to say.

[Eos of the Eons]

I knew this kid in kindergarten that would say something, and then repeat the same phrase in a whisper every time after. It was SOOOOOO annoying!

I have never met anyone else like that. Just mouthing it would have been less annoying though. I think it may be more connected to a stuttering type condition. I'm really not sure though.

The OC discussion is interesting. I would start to copy the kid because it would become like a habit. It was hard not to do around him! I wonder if it was like an OC habit for him.

[Silly Green Monkey]

Some people do that when they're just thinking, it's called subvocalization. Most aren't aware of it.

[Dymanic]

From what I've heard, obsessive compulsive disorder is anything but easy to control
The book I'm reading has it being not quite so cut-and-dried. Some afflicted individuals have very little control, but many (perhaps even most) are surprisingly adept at concocting work-arounds that enable them to hide the condition from others, and spontaneous remissions are not unheard of. For some, they can apparently "bargain" with their obsession, perhaps violating a rigid pattern of behavior when necessary, but incurring a "price" that must be paid later.

[Dark Jaguar]

Interesting...

I too occasionally said it in a hushed whisper as a child. ... What schools did you go to?

Anyway, on another note, I'll say I've had the occasional odd habit of, in the same vein as not wanting to step on a crack in the side walk as a kid, wanting to make sure I took the same number of footsteps with my left foot as my right, and sometimes that applies to specific surfaces, and sometimes when walking on tiles I'll try to only walk in "legal knight" moves like on a chessboard. Pretty weird right? No big deal or anything, just some odd habbit I've done now and again, much more often as a kid, but sometimes I catch myself doing it now. Thing is, I still wouldn't call that obsessive compulsive because I only really do it if I'm "noticing" my walking, rather than just walking automatically without paying attention, and even then only if I'm really bored. So, I guess it's more like some way of entertaining myself.

[Dymanic]

I've had the occasional odd habit of, in the same vein as not wanting to step on a crack in the side walk as a kid, wanting to make sure I took the same number of footsteps with my left foot as my right, and sometimes that applies to specific surfaces, and sometimes when walking on tiles I'll try to only walk in "legal knight" moves like on a chessboard. Pretty weird right? No big deal or anything, just some odd habbit I've done now and again, much more often as a kid, but sometimes I catch myself doing it now. Thing is, I still wouldn't call that obsessive compulsive because I only really do it if I'm "noticing" my walking, rather than just walking automatically without paying attention, and even then only if I'm really bored. So, I guess it's more like some way of entertaining myself.
That sounds remarkably similar to some of the things I'm reading about (especially the part about taking the same number of steps with each foot). I don't think those things are all that weird by themselves, and I'd be surprised if most people hadn't "entertained" themselves in some such fashion at one time or another, especially as kids. I also did some of the same sorts of things when I was a kid, and remember being slightly annoyed when one of them seemed to be becoming a habit, and had to make an effort to break it. I sometimes find myself counting things that don't need to be counted, like when washing silverware or something, but as soon as I notice I'm doing it, I (like yourself) don't have any trouble stopping. More importantly, I don't have to throw away the 23rd spoon, or run out to buy another one when I realize I only have 21. But a person with OCD has some different brain chemistry going on, and it isn't a simple matter of breaking a habit; it's something that consumes them. They HAVE to have exactly 22 spoons in the drawer (or whatever it is), no matter what.

Of course, as far as the OP's friend goes, this whole OCD angle could be completely off target.

[Mr. Scott]

I once had a friend who did the same thing, except that the second pass wasn't performed silently; he simply said everything twice. The second pass wasn't performed silently; he simply said everything twice.

Wasn't there a cartoon character or something that did this?

http://tvparty.com/spotpix10/hnewt.gif

Yes, a character from The Mighty Hercules (http://members.tripod.com/~MitchellBrown/grades/hercules.html) cartoon show of the 1960's:


Newton
The lovable centaur who acts as Herc's sidekick. We know he's lovable because he has a really high-pitched voice, and everything he says comes out repeated twice ("Herc! Herc! Over here! Over here!").

[StewartP]

I used to echo quietly the things other people had said when I was little. It used to drive my older brother crazy. I mainly used to do it for "practice". people would say things that I liked the sound of so I'd try out the same phrases to hear how it sounded coming from me.

I like to believe I grew out of it.

I live & work in France and french is a second language. I will often replay, or practice ahead of time entire conversations in french to make sure I'm getting the grammar and pronunciation just so. This, happily, I only do when alone in the car, or in my head.

I remember when I was little being very worried because I couldn't be sure which things were thoughts and which bits I had said out loud!

[The Mad Hatter]

Since I'm currently reading a book on obsessive compulsive disorder, it's probably no surprise that this clearly sounds to me like a manifestation of that condition

I doubt it's OCD. I have mild OCD, which I'm slowly growing out of, and it basically makes you feel like you have to do something. It is a very conscious thing. I sometimes used to count my steps when I'd walk, and once I reached my destination, I'd get upset if my step count didn't come out to a multiple of 10. So I'd take some extra steps to make myself more comfortable. I was perfectly aware of what I was doing, and I could force myself to deal with odd step counts, if I was willing to feel weird for a minute.

From what I can tell, his friend's condition seems to be less of a conscious thing, if he says he doesn't know why he does it.

Another reason I doubt it's OCD is that from what I've seen, people who have it tend to have many of the symptoms, and not just a single one. In addition to counting steps, I'm also big on cleanliness (in very odd ways - I'll share drinks with girls, but not other guys, or anyone I see as unclean), I arrange things symmetrically, etc. I've never heard of someone with just one very strong compulsion and none of the other symptoms. I could be wrong, though. It's possible that I only notice the ones with all the symptoms.

[Dancing David]

I have a friend with the odd habit of "mouthing" some of the things he says right after he says them aloud.

He might say aloud "So, how is your mother?" and then immediately after, will silently mouth that same sentence.

He doesn't do it all the time, or even most of the time.

It seems as though when he does it, he is going over what he just said to make sure he got it right. (He does it often with the puncline of a joke, for instance) I've asked him about it, but he doesn't know why he does it, and gets frustrated when it is mentioned.

Today, while looking up something else on Wikipedia, I ran across this entry on Echolalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia). If Wiki has it right, Echolalia is the repeating aloud of something someone ELSE has said. That's similar to what my friend does, but he doesn't do it aloud, and - as far as I have seen - only repeats what he himself has said.

Anyone familiar with this?

I don't remember, this may be perseveration, also it could be a compulsion, but a neurological work up might be good. Does he use subtances that alter mood?

[Dancing David]

I doubt it's OCD. I have mild OCD, which I'm slowly growing out of, and it basically makes you feel like you have to do something. It is a very conscious thing. I sometimes used to count my steps when I'd walk, and once I reached my destination, I'd get upset if my step count didn't come out to a multiple of 10. So I'd take some extra steps to make myself more comfortable. I was perfectly aware of what I was doing, and I could force myself to deal with odd step counts, if I was willing to feel weird for a minute.

From what I can tell, his friend's condition seems to be less of a conscious thing, if he says he doesn't know why he does it.

Another reason I doubt it's OCD is that from what I've seen, people who have it tend to have many of the symptoms, and not just a single one. In addition to counting steps, I'm also big on cleanliness (in very odd ways - I'll share drinks with girls, but not other guys, or anyone I see as unclean), I arrange things symmetrically, etc. I've never heard of someone with just one very strong compulsion and none of the other symptoms. I could be wrong, though. It's possible that I only notice the ones with all the symptoms.


More anecdote here, in my personal experience obsession and especialy compulsion are not always intentional, when I am off my meds and under stress, cumplusions can be very not intened, I can observe them but if I don't deliberately focus, I can engage in compulive behaviors in a very habitual fashion.

Fortunatly the medication helps and life style changes have made a real difference in my stress level. So I often obsess but very rarely am I compulsive at this time.

Just my POV.

[Pangea]

When I was younger, it was often pointed out to me that I mouthed the words I had just said aloud, and I hadn't even realized I was doing it.
I think it's something I grew out of, although my husband will occasionally point out that I still do it.
I also used to have a habit of mentally spelling the last word I had just thought about. For example, if I was thinking about an errand, I would think, "I need to go to the grocery store. S-T-O-R-E." I don't find myself doing it as often as I used to, but I will slip into that habit at night just before I go to sleep, especially if I am recounting the days events. It's sort of like counting sheep, I suppose.

[sesmo_k]

Anecdotal, but for years my little sister mouthed silently every word she had just said. The only thing I can think of that contributed to it was that she couldn't say certain strings of consonants like "ch" as in church, she pronounced it as "searsh". The mouthing silently started after she had been to a speech therapist , I think it was her way of checking she had said the words right, and possibly because the therapy the therapist used was a combination of repetition and positive reinforcement of the correct lips/tongue position for words. Now and again she still does it, especially if she's reading a word she hasn't come across before.

[Dogdoctor]

Does your mouth move when you read? :) That is subvocalization and it could be that the person doing it is just thinking of what they just said and making mouth movements in association with the thoughts of words. People often associate words with the action of saying them and so when they think of the words they make the mouth movements as if they are saying them.

[RSLancastr]

Thanks everyone for all the input.

My friend has never had any speech therapy, so that is not how he developed this habit.

Does he use subtances that alter mood?I seriously doubt it, but can't say for certain. As far as I know, he doesn't even drink or smoke.

[c4ts]

http://tvparty.com/spotpix10/hnewt.gif

Yes, a character from The Mighty Hercules (http://members.tripod.com/~MitchellBrown/grades/hercules.html) cartoon show of the 1960's:

Hercules had a lot of patience for not punching him into oblivion...

[Dancing David]

Help! Help!
What are you doing? What are you doing?
Ouch! Ouch!

[Luciana]

Palilalia? (http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/10/1/117)

Palilalia is an involuntary repetition, two or more times, of a patient's own phrase or word that is semantically adequate and compulsive in nature. The reiteration occurs in spontaneous speech or when replying to questions.1 Characteristically the reiteration occurs with increasing rapidity and decreasing voice volume until no more sound is produced, although the patient may continue to move his or her lips for a while. It has been described in association with a variety of disorders affecting frontal-subcortical circuits, including Gilles de la Tourette's syndrome (GTS), where it is estimated that it occurs in 6% to 15% of clinic patients.2 Most authors emphasize the compulsive nature of this phenomenon.

Worth googling more of it, who knows!