Taking your Soul back....

[muscleman]

I noticed that many of you guys here are of riped age, aand need to knnow this before your time will fade away. This is not a question and answer post, but an educational post.. Its VERY VERY long, but read this, for it might save your soul........



Is God real? What is God(s)? Which God? Why should we worship him and How? the point?


For many centuries, it is in human nature to worship and treasure someone or something, we dont settle down by natural means (natural in a sense of tegetherness, food, and violence for survival), for us that is not enough, we have a "strong emotion" that drives us to look for "something else"...

"Apart from God we are lost"....Ever since the sin of Adam and Eve, human race have been separated from the connection with God...

Take all the world cultures for example (lets leave religion out for a moment). For thousands of years (historically speaking), humans have always found something to lay their strong emotions to, if they see a cow in front of them, then sory cow your gonna be worshipped, if its the way they eat, then eating wont just be as easy but must wash hands, bow down, take sandals out, etc. as it is in many cultures from japan to europe.
It is like when you have a girlfriend whom you dearly love, and when she leaves you, you need a rebound otherwise you will be extremely deppressed because you will not be able to express the strong emotion she gave you...

Take all the world cultures and observe them, from the west to the east, from natives in south america to japan. Observe and learn that people feel lost unless there is something or someone they lay their heart to, human interactions isnt enough, or even food, we crave for more..If that emotions isnt settled in religion, it is settled in sports, in science, or in fashion and materials...
In japan, people are very well disciplined, there is strict rules you have to follow before and after meals, greeting high postion people..But whats the point? Why does the human race do these? Does reasons even have room here? You know why, because we feel lost if we dont make rituals and practices, thats a strong emotion that we have...
ALL cultures are a slave to worship of "something something" otherwise we feel lost without such practice...




You guys dont understand the concept of "God" and gods..

There are many gods...Some gods are immortal, some gods arent, some gods are 1000 years old trees, some gods are 80 yrs old man...There is a god called "Belzebul" in the old, the hindu gods, etc.
Anything can be a god, thats how they refer to back then as something you worship, trust, hope, and treasure in your heart, and that can mean anyone and anything...
You might think that People back then are crazy to die for a god which is a statue of goat made out of gold and silver. A goat is made for food, but why do they go beyond the norm? Are people then really weird? Let's see....They are willing to die for it, worship it (by treasuring it dearly in their hearts), make songs about it, talk highly of it, they will even kill for it such as offering human sacrifice, whatever.

What about today? We have cars, which we used for transportation, do we go beyond the nomrs like what people back then do? Let's see...We hope that we can achieve better cars, better engine, we worship and treasure some cars, some of us are willing to die to obtain it, sacrifice marriage, even moral values..You will steal to get them, cheat, even some will kill to own a ferrari, or 1 million dollars. Some of us talk highly about cars, we even make songs dedicated to cars with nice grills etc., take the rappers for example like Ludacris...this is the SPIRITS of the world.. I guess people back then isnt that weird after all, we are no better than them...This is what we call "IDOLATRY"..."Thou shall not have other gods before me"- Bible..




Again there are many gods, and the practices along with those gods are abomination to the real God, the truth. How is the God of Abraham the real God? In other words How is the God of humble, hardworking, faithfull, loving, and kind men the true God?
Because His ways are the right way to live, proper way of living, civilized manner, as a true father wants the best for his children, just as a true God will not teach us to hate each other and steal each others' goods...But then again, over the centuries, the human race have different concept of God, just as a kid has different concept of things until he matures...I will explain more later....

Why should I worship "God" and how? Whats the point?

Why is it so important to worship the "God" of Abraham? Or the christian God? Why cant I worship the ferrari god, or the cow god, or the snoop doggy dog god? What about the girls gone wild video tape god, why cant I worship them instead? Whats wrong with them?

Sofa or Television is not a sin, it is the love of Sofa and Television that makes it a sin...Also, it is not the thing or the something that you worship that makes it a sin. It is the result of it that makes it a sin.

What is the result of worship in Karma Sutra? Perversion, which leads to saccrifice of human life, from losing family, to disrespecting women, rape in some case, losing focus in the meaning of life, etc..What is the result of worshipping a "violent" God? Violence, murder, justified because of their god, this is evident in the bible because they thought God is a violent God, and even today, this is visible through the muslim..What you "worship" in your heart, n other words what you treasure in your heart is where your god is, and what your god do is what you do..
For instance, if you worship Arnold Schwarzennerger, or Marvel Super Heroes, you immediately wanted to be buff and muscular, because they are your role model, and their action is the virtue in which you found appealing...

So why is it so important to worship the Christian God? Because worshipping Jesus means worshipping his deeds, and action, and what he do..And that is the virtues, beatitudes, moral guidelines, etc.

We can be saved through love and the virtues. Whether you carry the title "buddhism" or "hinduism", but you are judged by your virtues, your quality. However, it is very unlikely and unprobably for someone to worship SNOOP DOG or MTV and have good virtues, is NOT perverted, and is very patient, because the MTV god doesnt teach any of that..
FOR ANYONE TO CLAIM THAT THEY REJECT THE WORSHIP OF CHRIST, AND HAVE VIRTUES IN THEM BY WORSHIPPING PERVERTED MTV, THEY ARE A LIAR, TO ME IT IS VERY UNPROBABLE AND UNLIKELY...EVEN THE GOVERNMENT TEACHES THAT WHAT WE SEE, AND WHAT WE HEAR AFFECTS WHAT WE DO...

"See no evil, hear no evil, and SPEAK NO evil"...If you dont hear and see evil, then you will not DO EVIL EITHER BY TALKING, OR ACTING...

So what is my evidence that the Christian God, and the God of Abraham is the one and only true God?

The love he have shown, "As a true Father wants the best for His children and would willing to give up his very life to save him" just as a true God will do the same for his children...No other so-caled Gods have given the profound laws and guidelines effective in governing as Jesus did..

Another is that there is only One God, because all the other cultures, and religion, is not like the christians..
When the apostles were taught of the gospel, they were instructed to keep the event to themselves and tell others about it at a certain time. But people have so much conviction and excitement that they disobeyed Jesus and told everyone they met anyways, they testified Jesus healing, his words, and what he do..

Till this day, this tradition is carried out, ONLY CHRISTIANS IN THE WORLD RELIGION ARE SO CONFIDENT THAT JESUS IS THE LORD THAT THEY WILL GO IN EVERY CORNERS OF THE EARTH TO PROCLAIM IT, THEY ARE SO OVERWHELMED THAT THEY CANNOT KEEP IT TO THEMSELF...That proves that genuinity of our faith, the buddhist, the muslims, and other religions doesnt have that conviction, AS HISTORY SHOWS, even buddhism complains of the westerners evangelizing their own people...


For centuries many thought God is evil, cruel, and careless, and because of that, He dont exist. But Jesus calrified the truth........

"Tell them that they are wrong about sin and they are wrong about God's judgment"- Jesus..


"A new commandment, that I give unto you, that yu love one another, as I have loved you. For this I know then, that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another.."- Jesus..

[muscleman]

Atheists say that religion causes war & disunity, therefore we must get rid of it, but does this make sense? Let us observe & see...


Life itself is religion, and each and every single one of us is a church (Body is the temple of God..).......If one cannot appreciate religion but rejects or hates it, such individual rejects and hates human kind as well..........

If one choses not to be under the rules and regulations of one religion, such individual "decides" to make a religion in his own temple (mind and body)....He will absorb many beliefs and knowledge, some knowledge based purely on faith, others based purely on facts......This persons name is John, and John is the name of the religion, John have his own church, his own mind and body.....

He believes that taking drugs and abusing it is harmfull, a belief based on fact...Some of his beliefs are based purely on facts, others are based purely on faith... He believes that medical science is effective, a belief based on fact...He also believes that UFO and aliens are real, based purely on faith....He also believes quantum mechanics is a fact, a belief based purely on faith (theories).......etc....

Many have said that there are many religions, 9 major ones today..In Christianity, there are about 27,000 denominations...In Buddhism, there are also thousands, and the same for Hinduism...


I say there are 15 billion people, and there is also 15 billion religions.......Nationalism is an example of religion, it contains musical song dedicated and praising the country (national anthem), it has rituals (gun shots, marching, certain rules and regulations), symbols (flags), its own members (senate, president, governor, etc.)....Human existence is the same way, each and every single one of us have our own style of doing things, how we drive, how we talk, how we give ourselves self-esteem (self-glorification), etc...

Life is a religion........

But how can we put an all knowing, all powerfull, eternal entity (God) in the realm of ignorance, no self-control, perishable world?


Life is a religion, but life is also an order......

For instance...When you are lonely, having no family to love you, your mind takes care of what you have missing...It may come in a form of imagination (day dream: or sleep dream) where you fantasize about a happy family, a mother and father who understands you, and loves you.....

When you drive a rugged ghetto jacked up car and people dont give you attention because of it (or negative attention), then your mind takes care of what you have missing as well, then you began to day dream of owning a nicer, faster car, a car that will cause people to like you...

This is just one of many many many many (AND I MEAN "MANY") examples I can set to prove that life is an order, independent, and self-sufficient....

What is the point of all these? The point is, if life is an order, then religion is also an order...And order have levels.........

For instance, the level of imagining to obtain a gold plated pencil is not in the same level of obtaining a gold plated mansion house....If you imagine owning a gold plated pencil, you can possibly get that at this moment, but that wont be the case for a gold plated mansion house.........(Remember this is just an analogy, you can use another analogy where one is not valued by its mass, but quality, such as diamonds, valued by its carat,and clarity...)

Another example of order is the animal species (or you can say the "brain", levels of intelligence..)....There are levels of species..Let us make up our own level just as an example...........

Let us just say that the cockroach is the lowest, then the one above that is the salamander, above that is the snake, above the snake is the racoon, above the racoon is the cat, then the lion, then the bear, then the elephant, then the whales, then the human species....By far we claim to be the highest, and we are the highest.......We have the power to wipe them all out, the power to do to them as we please (taming, or slaughtering...)

There are many religions (billions) because life is an order. If life is NOT an order, then there will only be one religion, one truth, where there is no close substitute, but that is not the case today, because life is an order, self-sufficient, and independent (humans having freewill and independence).
Ill clarify one more time, if life is chaos, then there will only be one religion and no freewill....

Understand this....If life came to existence from sub-atomic particles, to atoms, to molecules, to a single cell, to animal species, to human life, then this statement is proposing that life is "ONE DIRECTION", therefore we cannot have freewill, AND THERE MUST ONLY BE ONE RELIGION, one truth.........But that is not the case, because life is an order.......

In summary, if your expecting one religion, then your hallucinating...Life didnt just come to existence because the sub-atomic particles became atom, then it became molecules, then singled cell life forms...etc...Its not that simple, theres all forms of physics behind it, and intelligent guidance, or "pure luck", either way its for you to believe.......


What Im trying to point out here is that if atheists ask that in order for God to exist, then there must only be one religion and one church. That maybe true if we dont have freewill, but we do have freewill..Therefore its impossible to have one church...

It is only logical that many religions exist...It is only logical that human race attempted to "Design" an organization to search for the truth, we call this individuals "prophets"....It is only logical that this individuals put so much effort into it, some religion makes more sense, others are just plain stupid (atheism, who claims to find the truth..)...

But with all the prophets efforts of attempting to search for the truth, many are willing to die for finding that truth, then there must be a truth....
Some maybe close to finding it, others are not even close (like atheism)........

Almost all religions claim to be the "True church", but there is only "one true church" and the others are either just close to it, or not at all.........

Our mission is to seek and find that true church...."Seek and you shall find"- Jesus....

But if your too impatient, self-centered (so focus on pleasure.) greedy, stupid, then you are not willing to put any efforts on finding that true church, and if your not willing to, THEN MAYBE YOU DONT DESERVE TO FIND IT, you have to look for it first before you can find it......

Nobody is born in the true church...One must seek it himself...For instance, many who claimed to be christians, or former christians are ignorant about their faith, therefore they are not really christians........

You must educate yourself and learn what is the true church, before you can find it........If a person based his religion on pure faith, then that person has not put any efforts into finding it, and if he didnt put any efforts because he have no patience, too caught up in the things of the world, then maybe he dont deserve to find the truth.......


In summary, there are many religions, but there must only be "One true religion", just as there are many animal species, but there is only one ultimate species (the human species...). We can have the visions of any species, we can fly, be strong, all this is possible with our intelligence.......

In summary, look for the true church, I cannot tell you this, for if I tell you, you will not believe me.......Then you will begin judging the people's sin in the church, etc.....So look for it yourself......

But Ill give you this..........Jesus warned of the false prophets in the future, when the apostles asked him how we would know that they are false, we know it by their works........WE KNOW THE TEACHING IS FALSE BY THEIR WORKS............

For instance, atheism and many organizations promote abortion, and that the babies inside are not humans but just a blob of tissue, is this the truth???? We can even abort 9 month old babies even, as long as they are in the womb, they are not humans............They say this because if they said it is "humans", then it will be given human rights, thus we cant kill them anymore, because of this, they say it is just a blob of tissue.........

From abortion what did it lead to? Euthanasia, if your old, unwanted, and useless...You deserve to die............

Whats next? The handicap? The crippled? The blind??

You know what this sounds like? THE THIRD REIGHT OF ADOLF HITLER................Where jews are not pure humans, jus as the blacks were considered 1/4 humans many years ago, thus making slavery legal...........


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Since atheists are so anti-religion (churches particularly) because they believe religion causes wars, terror, murder, hate, etc... for the sake of the argument, let us just say that we were succesfull in abolishing all religions completely. Now there is no muslim, no christians, no buddhism........

Now how do you deal with the others in disunity? Raider's fan beating on 49'ers fan...Norte shot and killed a surreno, he hates this guy because he wears red, while the other hates the other because he wears blue, 2 different beliefs. One guy beeat another guy, because he believe its ok to get drunk, while the other believes it is wrong to abuse one's body and promote that act to others. A rapper shot and killed a heavy metal artist, because he believes rap music is best influencing teens, then the other also shot him back because he believe that heavy metal is better....Democracy, Communism, Republican, chinese, asian, black, white puerto rican, rap, gothic, prep.......I can probably set MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of examples of organizations and division, so how do you deal with these now??

Thats why I still believed in Christianity, that we must be able to see the good in every individual, and learn to love them the way they are, only in this way we can find peace......But in Christianity there is also many denominations, which one to pick? Again it is for you to look, for if I tell you the answer, you will not believe (since I know many of you here are poisoned by lies so many times already)............

[muscleman]

"You said that the bible must not be taken literally, but some can be, but whos suppose to have the RIGHT to interpret one, and take the other literally?"- atheist..

Thats why its important to learn the history of the church.. Where did the bible come from? The Universal community (Catholic in latin, "church" as group of believers.) first founded in Rome italy...


The magisterium and the fathers of the church compiled the bible, they decided what scrolls must be printed there (for there are many scrolls that the bible dont have). Therefore it is the Holy see that have the right to interpret the bible...
Do you even know what is the first purpose of the bible? It is compiled for the mass, because before it was compiled, there were many scrolls and some are too old so decided to put it into one book, the bible when beipng read, the priest always MAKE HIS TRANSLATION, AND WHAT THE HOLY SEE BELIEVEIT MEANS....One church, one body.....



When you use the word "The Roman Catholic Church did this or did that""...Then I assume you must be educated in the R.C.C...


How educated are you in the R.C.C? The same church who have members that founded universities, among them is Georgetown, NotreDame, and many others....

If you say it is the Roman Catholic Church that did the crusades, then that is like saying the U.S government have sex with Monica Lewinski.....

First before making the claim that the U.S did it, you must present a bill that the senates pass, if its constitutional, and if its a law, then you can say the Government did it...That is likewise for the R.C.C....

The R.C.C is composed of this...


1.) Holy Scriptures (Many many books written by saints, the bible is ONE OF THEM, Catechsim, Lumengentium, etc. & other books as well that are "Imprimatured" or "nihil obstat" meaning checked and free of moral errors..)

2.) Holy Tradition (Like Jesus who wears the synagogues, this is very important because we are heirs of Abraham, and King David, thus continuing the legacy of the faith from the start (mustard seed).)

3.) Canon law (This is like the constitution. This is the infallible teachings of the church, where we go to these if there are any disputes among the members...)

4.) Magisterium (Pope united with the bishops... This is where "Dogma" are being propagated, having full investigation on things, scientifically, or historically..)

That is what is composed of the Roman Catholic church. When bishop hides a child molester from public, that is NOT IN THE CANON LAW, OR APPROVAL BY THE POPE BUT AN INDEPENDENT ACT I CAN UNDERSTAND FULLY AS A HUMAN SPECIES... Maybe they were friends, and he just wanted to defend him, but this is not the "ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH ACT".....

Furtheremore, the crusades or the inquisition...First youhave to educate yurself in History...For instance, why did Cortez came back and wiped out almost all of the aztec indians? He is a roman catholic, but he is an individual..
First when he arrived in South America, they were captured by the indians, and 4 of his friends were offered to the gods and killed, Cortez escaped with full hatred...Returning to spain, he came back with so much militia and vengeance, that he almost killed all of them...

The same with Magellan in Phillipines... His followersraped and stole gold and women, then uses the name of "CHURCH" tto cover up their disgusting act...The muslims killed Magellan...But those who escaped came back to spain, then came back to kill almost all of them, thus colonizing the country...

The pope was even involve on this, BUT THIS IS NOT THE CHURCH THAT DID IT, BECAUSE ALL OF THE BISHOPS MUST AGREE ON THIS, THEN DOCUMENT IT, THEN WILL BE WRITTEN IN CANON LAW, OR BECOME A DOGMA, BUT NONE OF THIS ARE PERMITTED IN EITHER THE BOOK....

For instance, St. Joan of Arc, she was a catholic (now a saint) and was hanged and burned to death by the bishop, accusing her of witchcraft falsely...
THIS WAS AN INDEPENDENT ACT, THE POPE WASNT AWARE OF THIS UNTIL LATER IN YEARS.....



note: I am a catechist teacher, If u want to ask about the eucharist, is it logical to say God is really present there? The virgin birth, scientific proof of God, etc. Then ask away........

[evildave]

Ahh, more posts about "what atheists believe".

I personally could care less if you want to worship Gods or Keebler Elves. If it makes you happy, then do enjoy your fantasies all you like.

I'm sure that it can seem very much like "life is religion" if you make religion all your life is about.

[thaiboxerken]

There isn't any scientific evidence of god. That's part of the reason I'm atheist. Another reason I'm atheist is because I actually read the christian bible.

Please, lose your god beliefs before you go insane...... oh, I'm too late huh?

[Doctor X]

So, if I take a little knife and insert it in your brain stem roughly at the level of the mesencephapic-metencephalic junction [Stop it! "Midbrain" and "pons"--Ed] thereby transecting your ascending reticular activating system, thus obliterating your consciousness and your ability to ever regain consciousness, though not damaging your hemispheres in any way . . . what has happened to your soul?

Kids, if you try this at homel, make sure you wash your hands first. . . .

--J.D.

[Doctor X]

. . . and ask Mommy first if you can borrow her buckknife. . . .

--J.D.

[muscleman]

well atleast when you die, you cant blaim anyone but yourself, for now you already know...

And Dave, LOL, your right, virtue is all there is to my life (religion) and I apply it wherevere I go, when I go to parties, play sports, go to school, or even date...What virtues do you have? Its ok to be gay? :)

[Doctor X]

I am afraid I must recognize that as an inability to address the topic.

--J.D.

[muscleman]

Doctor X,

I know not much about the soul..
I know that its eternal (as energy cannot be destroyed), I know that we cant detect it (as we cant detect sub-atomic particles anything beyond 300,000,000 m/s.).
I also know that what we can detect is the weakest form of energy (a stopped energy). Therefore a soul is a very potent version of what we label as "physical"..
Though when you destroy the body's mechanism, when it breaks down, the soul departs.. It can only return if the body is fully operational (which we call ""ressurection".)
There are people who are in coma, and many have claimed to have seen their own body (soul departing), however, SKEPTICS "THEORIZED" that it was just brain consciousness (imagination), BUT WHO DO I BELIEVE? THE PERSON IN WHICH IT HAPPENED TO? OR THE PERS0N WHO MADE A THEORY ABOUT IT???

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by muscleman
well atleast when you die, you cant blaim anyone but yourself, for now you already know...

Ayee, repent ye sinners, for I have shown thou The Light!

And Dave, LOL, your right, virtue is all there is to my life (religion) and I apply it wherevere I go, when I go to parties, play sports, go to school, or even date...

Yeah, I once hadda friend like that ....

What virtues do you have? Its ok to be gay? :)

Well, obviously humility and tolerance are NOT among Muscleman's virtues, but I guess it takes a saint to have them all :rolleyes:

Hans

[Doctor X]

I know not much (sic) about the soul..
I know that its eternal

Ipse dixit The existence of such has not been established, and the question posed has been ignored.

I know that we cant (sic) detect it (as we cant (sic) detect sub-atomic particles anything beyond 300,000,000 m/s.).

I will leave the physicist to criticise that mistake, nevertheless, it remains a "I-am-sure-it-exists-but-no-evidence-of-it-exists."

This, of course, is a variation of the Squeaky the Bunny Hypothesis [All Rights Reserved.--Ed.]

Squeaky, of course, is the invisible bunny that you cannot feel, who controls your movements without you knowing it.

Incidentally:

I also know that what we can detect is the weakest form of energy (a stopped energy). Therefore a soul is a very potent version of what we label as "physical"..

The second does not follow at all from the first.


Though when you destroy the body's mechanism, when it breaks down, the soul departs.. It can only return if the body is fully operational (which we call ""ressurection (sic)".)

While I perhaps remain thankfully ignorant of the identity of this "we," I will note that this is contradicted by the scientific rhetorical I pos'd above.

There are people who are in coma, and many have claimed to have seen their own body (soul departing), . . .

People in a coma do not claim anything.

. . . however, SKEPTICS "THEORIZED"

Note the attempt to Poison the Well with the use of "." . . . or is that use of ""?

that it was just brain consciousness (imagination),

Consciousness is not the same as imagination.

BUT WHO DO I BELIEVE? THE PERSON IN WHICH IT HAPPENED TO?

Lack of antecedant to the pronoun prevents conveyence of point.

OR THE PERS0N WHO MADE A THEORY ABOUT IT???

Unfortunately, enough is know about the basic mechanism, as pos'd above, to move beyond the attempted slight of "theory."

The question remains pending.

--J.D.

[MRC_Hans]

There are people who are in coma, and many have claimed to have seen their own body (soul departing), however, SKEPTICS "THEORIZED" that it was just brain consciousness (imagination), BUT WHO DO I BELIEVE? THE PERSON IN WHICH IT HAPPENED TO? OR THE PERS0N WHO MADE A THEORY ABOUT IT???

Mmm, interesting question. I had a friend who tried LSD (this was in '68); afterwards, he told me that he had seen the road as a river with barges slowly drifting. He jumped in and began to swim across, but collided with one of the "barges". He woke up in hospital, rather badly bruised.

Now, my friend could describe his perception of the river and the gaudily painted boats and barges in vivid detail, but the "skeptic" police report described him walking into a trafficked street, waving his arms, and getting hit by a car. Which should we believe?

I read about a doctor who was giving her patients some treatment that regularly gave them Out of Body Experiences (OBE). After having heard enough of them describing how their "souls" floated around under the ceiling looking down on their body and the doctor working on it, she placed a message in such a way that it would be very conspicuous from a viewer near the ceiling, but invisible from anybody on the floor. Interestingly, nobody reported observing it during OBEs.

Hans

(edited to correct some of the typos)

[Doctor X]

No fair bringing evidence into the discusion!

--J.D.

[MRC_Hans]

I do apologize!:o

Who was it that said: "My mind is made up, so don't confuse me with facts"?

Hans:p

[iain]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
I do apologize!:o

Who was it that said: "My mind is made up, so don't confuse me with facts"?

Hans:p Almost anyone on these forums? :D

[c4ts]

Is God real? What is God(s)? Which God? Why should we worship him and How? the point?

I'm afraid those questions are circular reasoning.

"Is God real?" is fine. "What is God?" is fine. "Which God?" is unusual, because it doesn't seem to relate to "Is God real?" in a monotheistic sense. "Why should we worship him and how?" is the problem, because it implies "is God real?" was answered with "yes," it also requires that "what is god?" was partially answered with "a male that should be worshipped in some way or another." "The point?" refers to the point of worship, which assumes that there now is a way to worship the existing God, but that way may or may not have a point. Since, you've already answered your questions, why bother asking them? You have no knowedge to gain for yourself, just a re-affirmation of your belief at best, which is not likely at this forum unless you ignore or try to refute each response. Sadly, the rest of your post makes about as much sense to me as the end of a Chick tract, and seems to have equal footing in reality. But I could be wrong.


For many centuries, it is in human nature to worship and treasure someone or something, we dont settle down by natural means (natural in a sense of tegetherness, food, and violence for survival), for us that is not enough, we have a "strong emotion" that drives us to look for "something else"...

Emotions are common to all living things, not specifically part of human nature, as our desire to understand our surroundings and our tendency to band together. You say we do not settle down by natural means, and try to treat a desire to understand (a drive to look for "something else," presumably a means of explanation that is not immediately at hand) as some sort of emotion. But emotions appear to be common to all animals, whereas the desire to understand does not, although it may be the cause of emotions. Also, we do appear to settle down by natural means, if not in cities, at least in tribes or factions. Furthermore, it would seem that human nature to worship or treasure someone would have this effect on our species, if you say that it is also human nature to defend who or what what they worship or treasure.

"Apart from God we are lost"....Ever since the sin of Adam and Eve, human race have been separated from the connection with God...
Now you are confusing mythology with the truth. Truth is, we don't know what happened before this exact second, but we have so much evidence provided by things we call "memory," "archaeology," "written history," and "anthropology," all of which seem to be consistent with one another. They may not be exact, they may even be lies, but since they are coherent and provide something which we skeptics call
"evidence," they are somewhat more valid than myth or conjecture, which may also be lies. In order to claim the Athens of Ancient Greece existed, something like the Parthenon or Acropolis is used to support that claim in conjunction with the writings of the so-called "Ancient Greeks" that are still available (and that's not even the bare minimum according to some). If you wanted to assume that Adam and Eve were true, you'd need something like God's giant flaming sword that turns every which way to cast the man out of Eden, and maybe some cherubim at the gate. Nobody has found anything that conclusive regarding that story, but look at all the stuff we found in Greece.

Take all the world cultures for example (lets leave religion out for a moment). For thousands of years (historically speaking), humans have always found something to lay their strong emotions to, if they see a cow in front of them, then sory cow your gonna be worshipped, if its the way they eat, then eating wont just be as easy but must wash hands, bow down, take sandals out, etc. as it is in many cultures from japan to europe.
Those customs seem unrelated the way you describe them. Different countries have different rituals. There's more than one religion. So what?
It is like when you have a girlfriend whom you dearly love, and when she leaves you, you need a rebound otherwise you will be extremely deppressed because you will not be able to express the strong emotion she gave you...
Nope. Love is not necessarily reciprocating. I learned that from experience. Sometimes you find you love someone else more, or that you never really loved your girlfriend anyway, or that feeling you had that you said was gonna last forever didn't after all the awkward high school sex, or you realize you two really just hate each other, so the relationship is terminated in a way that is not depressing. But since it's just a statement of experience, it's no more valid than what you said.

There are many gods...Some gods are immortal, some gods arent, some gods are 1000 years old trees, some gods are 80 yrs old man...There is a god called "Belzebul" in the old, the hindu gods, etc.
Anything can be a god, thats how they refer to back then as something you worship, trust, hope, and treasure in your heart, and that can mean anyone and anything...
You might think that People back then are crazy to die for a god which is a statue of goat made out of gold and silver. A goat is made for food, but why do they go beyond the norm? Are people then really weird? Let's see....They are willing to die for it, worship it (by treasuring it dearly in their hearts), make songs about it, talk highly of it, they will even kill for it such as offering human sacrifice, whatever.
So you are basically saying that theism causes immorality. You've also assumed that similar syllables in different languages have exactly the same meaning. There's an english word "see,"
and a Spanish word "ci." The similarity has no more meaning than "Bezebul" or whatever you want to call it because you want to accuse the Hindus of worshipping "Belzebub." And who the hell worships statues these days anyway? Isolated North African and Micronesian tribes? Also, these things are trivial compared to what Christians have done in the name of their god for ages. Why aren't they mentioned?

Again there are many gods, and the practices along with those gods are abomination to the real God, the truth. How is the God of Abraham the real God? In other words How is the God of humble, hardworking, faithfull, loving, and kind men the true God?
Because His ways are the right way to live, proper way of living, civilized manner, as a true father wants the best for his children, just as a true God will not teach us to hate each other and steal each others' goods...But then again, over the centuries, the human race have different concept of God, just as a kid has different concept of things until he matures...I will explain more later....
You've already answered your initial questions for yourself. Also, the concept of God is exactly that: a concept. If there are multiple gods in existence, the "one true god" of monotheism is a lie, because all those gods you mentioned cannot be gods, yet you first postulated their existence as gods, and it is unreasonable to negate your own postulate.

You guys dont understand the concept of "God" and gods..

There are many gods...Some gods are immortal, some gods arent, some gods are 1000 years old trees, some gods are 80 yrs old man...There is a god called "Belzebul" in the old, the hindu gods, etc.
Anything can be a god, thats how they refer to back then as something you worship, trust, hope, and treasure in your heart, and that can mean anyone and anything...
You might think that People back then are crazy to die for a god which is a statue of goat made out of gold and silver. A goat is made for food, but why do they go beyond the norm? Are people then really weird? Let's see....They are willing to die for it, worship it (by treasuring it dearly in their hearts), make songs about it, talk highly of it, they will even kill for it such as offering human sacrifice, whatever.

What about today? We have cars, which we used for transportation, do we go beyond the nomrs like what people back then do? Let's see...We hope that we can achieve better cars, better engine, we worship and treasure some cars, some of us are willing to die to obtain it, sacrifice marriage, even moral values..You will steal to get them, cheat, even some will kill to own a ferrari, or 1 million dollars. Some of us talk highly about cars, we even make songs dedicated to cars with nice grills etc., take the rappers for example like Ludacris...this is the SPIRITS of the world.. I guess people back then isnt that weird after all, we are no better than them...This is what we call "IDOLATRY"..."Thou shall not have other gods before me"- Bible..




Again there are many gods, and the practices along with those gods are abomination to the real God, the truth. How is the God of Abraham the real God? In other words How is the God of humble, hardworking, faithfull, loving, and kind men the true God?
Because His ways are the right way to live, proper way of living, civilized manner, as a true father wants the best for his children, just as a true God will not teach us to hate each other and steal each others' goods...But then again, over the centuries, the human race have different concept of God, just as a kid has different concept of things until he matures...I will explain more later....

Why should I worship "God" and how? Whats the point?

Why is it so important to worship the "God" of Abraham? Or the christian God? Why cant I worship the ferrari god, or the cow god, or the snoop doggy dog god? What about the girls gone wild video tape god, why cant I worship them instead? Whats wrong with them?

Sofa or Television is not a sin, it is the love of Sofa and Television that makes it a sin...Also, it is not the thing or the something that you worship that makes it a sin. It is the result of it that makes it a sin.

What is the result of worship in Karma Sutra? Perversion, which leads to saccrifice of human life, from losing family, to disrespecting women, rape in some case, losing focus in the meaning of life, etc..What is the result of worshipping a "violent" God? Violence, murder, justified because of their god, this is evident in the bible because they thought God is a violent God, and even today, this is visible through the muslim..What you "worship" in your heart, n other words what you treasure in your heart is where your god is, and what your god do is what you do..
For instance, if you worship Arnold Schwarzennerger, or Marvel Super Heroes, you immediately wanted to be buff and muscular, because they are your role model, and their action is the virtue in which you found appealing...

So why is it so important to worship the Christian God? Because worshipping Jesus means worshipping his deeds, and action, and what he do..And that is the virtues, beatitudes, moral guidelines, etc.

We can be saved through love and the virtues. Whether you carry the title "buddhism" or "hinduism", but you are judged by your virtues, your quality. However, it is very unlikely and unprobably for someone to worship SNOOP DOG or MTV and have good virtues, is NOT perverted, and is very patient, because the MTV god doesnt teach any of that..
FOR ANYONE TO CLAIM THAT THEY REJECT THE WORSHIP OF CHRIST, AND HAVE VIRTUES IN THEM BY WORSHIPPING PERVERTED MTV, THEY ARE A LIAR, TO ME IT IS VERY UNPROBABLE AND UNLIKELY...EVEN THE GOVERNMENT TEACHES THAT WHAT WE SEE, AND WHAT WE HEAR AFFECTS WHAT WE DO...

"See no evil, hear no evil, and SPEAK NO evil"...If you dont hear and see evil, then you will not DO EVIL EITHER BY TALKING, OR ACTING...

So what is my evidence that the Christian God, and the God of Abraham is the one and only true God?

The love he have shown, "As a true Father wants the best for His children and would willing to give up his very life to save him" just as a true God will do the same for his children...No other so-caled Gods have given the profound laws and guidelines effective in governing as Jesus did..

Another is that there is only One God, because all the other cultures, and religion, is not like the christians..
When the apostles were taught of the gospel, they were instructed to keep the event to themselves and tell others about it at a certain time. But people have so much conviction and excitement that they disobeyed Jesus and told everyone they met anyways, they testified Jesus healing, his words, and what he do..

Till this day, this tradition is carried out, ONLY CHRISTIANS IN THE WORLD RELIGION ARE SO CONFIDENT THAT JESUS IS THE LORD THAT THEY WILL GO IN EVERY CORNERS OF THE EARTH TO PROCLAIM IT, THEY ARE SO OVERWHELMED THAT THEY CANNOT KEEP IT TO THEMSELF...That proves that genuinity of our faith, the buddhist, the muslims, and other religions doesnt have that conviction, AS HISTORY SHOWS, even buddhism complains of the westerners evangelizing their own people...


For centuries many thought God is evil, cruel, and careless, and because of that, He dont exist. But Jesus calrified the truth........

"Tell them that they are wrong about sin and they are wrong about God's judgment"- Jesus..


"A new commandment, that I give unto you, that yu love one another, as I have loved you. For this I know then, that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another.."- Jesus..

"Love" does not include imposing your beliefs on others. Imposing your beliefs on others has another name: "biggotry." If your religion is constructed so that love equals biggotry, then it is unlikely that your God is anywere near "true." I remind you that no amount of belief can change fact, and that your god is (in your own style of capitalization) NOT FACT (I remind you that I am not using sophist logic, that "not fact" does not necessarily mean "false.") For, if your god were fact, then belief or disbelief would make no difference to him, since a) his laws would be natural and universal b) there is no need to demand obedience for laws which you involuntarily "obey" (you can discuss that with Franko). By your example, it appears that "God" is really just a way to pretend to know how things work so you can stop questioning and get on with your warm and fuzzy life. No knowledge of God is real knowledge. No amount of belief amounts to any knowledge whatsoever. Man desires knowledge, and knowledge really exists. Man turns to God, man does not recieve knowledge, he gets sophistry from people like you. He just feels happy in his oblivion toward the world and his attitude toward God anyway, man never realizes what he's missed out on before he dies. He has only questioned as far as how to do his job and what to think when he's not doing his job. And by the way, based on the world at hand, intuition or feeling has no effect whatsoever on a 50/50 situation such as Pascal's little wager, and the existence of things such as human imagination stack the odds against the fool who knows what God is, for if there is some sort of God, it may have nothing to do with what you "know". And accusing other gods of being false isn't going to help you at all if one of them turns out to be real and not yours, and since other gods outnumber yours, the probability favors any god but yours. (For example, assuming there is a god, and there are 10 possible gods, you have a 9 in 10 chance of being wrong, and if you insult all other possible gods by calling them false, you have a 9 in 10 chance of being poorly recieved by that god. But I suppose probability doesn't matter to the believer until it's too late.)

And, just to warn you, if you make a bunch of random claims on this board and don't provide evidence while assuming you right, or even make the attempt to use logic to support those claims, you may recieve the honorable title of http://www.texastoys.com/site/woowoo.gif

[CWL]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
There isn't any scientific evidence of god. That's part of the reason I'm atheist. Another reason I'm atheist is because I actually read the christian bible.

Fully agreed. But don't forget the Theodicy Problem. That one is really the final nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.

[The Fool]

Muscleman.

Most of what you write is rather confusing, the bits in capitals are more interesting than the bits that are not. Have you considered typing your entire posts in capitals In order to make it all interesting? Whenever I start to post stuff like yours I find soaking my head in very salty water helps reduce the swelling and I no longer feel the need to save the world from the fires of hell.

After you have spent 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000 years in heaven, I hope you still have fond memories of this forum and the nice people you met here.... One thing I would stress is not to forget the dice for the monopoly game. It would be a real pain in the arse to be in heaven all that time just staring at the box, wishing you could have a quick game.
Bye now....

P.S. Note to all, before you consider quoting musclemans entire post in your replies, consider the finite amount of server space on the planet.

[fidiot]

Originally posted by The Fool
P.S. Note to all, before you consider quoting musclemans entire post in your replies, consider the finite amount of server space on the planet.

Too bad this is not heaven, we'd have all the forum space that we want :D

[Wile E. Coyote]

Ooh, ooh! Look everyone, it's a train wreck!

Seriously, muscleman does not belong on a skeptic's forum. He questions nothing. Even Franko has some original ideas, but muscleman just spews the same crap the Catholic church has been spewing for centuries.

muscleman, please stop preaching here. Your feeble statements are backed only by rumor and speculation, and skeptics are not at all likely to accept what you say as anything other than monkey screeching.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by tjwojo
Seriously, muscleman does not belong on a skeptic's forum. He questions nothing. Even Franko has some original ideas, but muscleman just spews the same crap the Catholic church has been spewing for centuries.

Actually, tjwojo, Muscleman is Franko, or rather they are both creations of The Dungeonmaster (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=325726&highlight=dungeonmaster#post325726). Though the Franko persona is definately more interesting, they both use identical tactics and neither can deviate an angstrom from the character charts that the DM has drawn up for them. That is why you will never get a concession on any point from either. This is apparently a little internet game this person plays to amuse himself.

I've been playing for quite a while, and I admit it can be fun. Don't think for an instant, though, that you will ever be able to have a real conversation with an imaginary character.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by muscleman

And Dave, LOL, your right, virtue is all there is to my life (religion) and I apply it wherevere I go, when I go to parties, play sports, go to school, or even date...
I'm guessing modesty and humility are not on your long list of virtues.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally posted by Tricky


Actually, tjwojo, Muscleman is Franko, or rather they are both creations of The Dungeonmaster (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=325726&highlight=dungeonmaster#post325726). Though the Franko persona is definately more interesting, they both use identical tactics and neither can deviate an angstrom from the character charts that the DM has drawn up for them. That is why you will never get a concession on any point from either. This is apparently a little internet game this person plays to amuse himself.

I've been playing for quite a while, and I admit it can be fun. Don't think for an instant, though, that you will ever be able to have a real conversation with an imaginary character.

Thanks for the insight! I will keep that in mind when I am considering punching my hand through my monitor.

[Doctor X]

How deliciously ironic.

The creator proves responsible for the behavior of his creations, including racism, and is judged accordingly.

--J.D.

[Samus]

Originally posted by Tricky
[Actually, tjwojo, Muscleman is Franko, or rather they are both creations of The Dungeonmaster (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=325726&highlight=dungeonmaster#post325726). Not to spoil the fun, but is there a moderator on this site that can back that claim? We don't allow so-called "sock puppets" on the forums I mod, and we use the IP address logging to help enforce that.

Regardless, some arguments will never end. Better watch your back tjwojo, you don't want muscleman to kick your butt (as he has admitted to being an accomplished boxer).

[ntech]

Hey muscleman
How is the food there in the mental ward?

[Doctor X]

. . . as he has admitted to being an accomplished boxer. . . .

Which, I am sure, we should consider to have the same reliability as all of his other claims.

Nevertheless, if indeed an accomplished boxer, a gentleman he is not.

--J.D.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by dwb
Not to spoil the fun, but is there a moderator on this site that can back that claim? We don't allow so-called "sock puppets" on the forums I mod, and we use the IP address logging to help enforce that.
Nope, sorry dwb. This is an unmoderated forum, except for certain threads. We have had a few acknowledged sock puppets here (for example, Undercover Elephant has another persona which he no longer uses called Juggler). People have asked for IP addresses before (or even just to check if there are duplicates) and the answer has been resounding silence. That is one reason why The Dungeonmaster likes this forum so much.

[AP's sock puppet]

Originally posted by dwb
Not to spoil the fun, but is there a moderator on this site that can back that claim? We don't allow so-called "sock puppets" on the forums I mod, and we use the IP address logging to help enforce that.

How discriminatory. After all, sock puppets are people too.

[Franko]

but is there a moderator on this site that can back that claim? We don't allow so-called "sock puppets" on the forums I mod, and we use the IP address logging to help enforce that.

Ohh the A-Theists would never tolerate that!

Without there assortment of sock-puppets and other logical fallacies the A-Theists are nothing. They certainly have no logical evidence to back up their ridiculous religious dogma.

If we take away the A-Theists ability to sock-puppet themselves silly it wouldn't be neary as fun exposing them as the arrogant imbeciles that they truly are.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by AP's sock puppet

How discriminatory. After all, sock puppets are people too.

People other than themselves. The difference is between an actor and a character played by that actor.

[justsaygnosis]

Originally posted by The Fool
Muscleman.


P.S. Note to all, before you consider quoting musclemans entire post in your replies, consider the finite amount of server space on the planet.

Good to see your avatar on the board again. How's your daughter doing?

[arcticpenguin]

The thread is too long to read in its entirety, so I'll stick to the thread title: Taking your souls back

How long is the warranty period? Do we have to take in the original receipt with it?

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by c4ts

People other than themselves. The difference is between an actor and a character played by that actor.
"Things are seldom what they seem.
Skim milk masquerades as cream."

[Hazelip]

Muscleman, I want you to rest assured about the state of my immortal soul.

There is no such thing as an immortal soul.

There. I hope you feel better. :p

[SpaceLord]

Originally posted by Franko


Ohh the A-Theists would never tolerate that!

Without there assortment of sock-puppets and other logical fallacies the A-Theists are nothing. They certainly have no logical evidence to back up their ridiculous religious dogma.

If we take away the A-Theists ability to sock-puppet themselves silly it wouldn't be neary as fun exposing them as the arrogant imbeciles that they truly are.

This coming from a man who commits the fallacy of composition in a syllogism at least once a day. And I am not sure why a sock puppet is a logical fallacy.


Sooo, Franko is the the forum member who:

routinely makes fallacies of logic,

calls sock puppets illogical but has 5 of his own,

as well as the forum's only resident logical deist.

Yep, franko is highly logical. :rolleyes:

[Ladewig]

Muscleman, I agree with you. At least the part where you say, "this is a VERY, VERY long post." As for the rest: no. I disagree with your conclusions and I disagree with your premises. For instance,


No other so-called Gods have given the profound laws and guidelines effective in governing as Jesus did..

Actually, there have been a number of ancient religions that have provided profound laws and effective guidelines. And some of those religions have had resurrected dieties and demi-gods. And others had virgin births. So I don't see much unique material in your god stories.

As for me and my soul, we will worship the Aztec God of numbers and stars: Mixcóatl. All hail Mixcóatl. With apologies to Irving Berlin, anything your god can do my god can do better.

[evildave]

Originally posted by muscleman
well atleast when you die, you cant blaim anyone but yourself, for now you already know...

And Dave, LOL, your right, virtue is all there is to my life (religion) and I apply it wherevere I go, when I go to parties, play sports, go to school, or even date...What virtues do you have? Its ok to be gay? :)

Actually, I do subscribe to most of the what Christians call "Christian" virtues. Of course, this is just another means of coopting what is generic virtue and trying to claim it's singularly "christian".

I forgive more than most, and don't hold any real grudges. I generally follow the "golden rule", but heck, so do animals, if you pay attention. I pay attention to family and work to make things a little better in the world in my own curious fashion. I generally don't bother judging people, since it's too much effort to find out enough be "fair".

Naturally, special veneration or reverence for various flavors of religious dogma is not among such virtues, as I don't generally consider them as such.

I believe in one god fewer than most is all. Actually 2~3 gods/demigods and various pantheons, according to categories of religious belief. Since I can find Christians who believe in God/Jesus as seperate entities and as a singular entity, I can't even really speak of ALL Christians as monotheistic.

Is it OK to be happy? Of course it is. If you mean "be attracted to the same sex", well that's between the consenting adults that practice it. Who am I to judge them for what makes them happy, if I give people all this slack about religion making them happy?

[Julia]

Muscleman,
I have been working on figuring out your real point in posting on this forum. Other than to stir trouble, I don't believe you have one.
You have your posturing down, however, and lots of attitude.
You are preaching to the wrong choir. Do you really believe
you will make anyone here see the (your) light.
I don't even call myself an athiest. But people like you make me want to become one.
You seem young and arrogant. Perhaps come back after you've
done some growing up.

[muscleman]

Originally posted by c4ts


I'm afraid those questions are circular reasoning.

"Is God real?" is fine. "What is God?" is fine. "Which God?" is unusual, because it doesn't seem to relate to "Is God real?" in a monotheistic sense. "Why should we worship him and how?" is the problem, because it implies "is God real?" was answered with "yes," it also requires that "what is god?" was partially answered with "a male that should be worshipped in some way or another." "The point?" refers to the point of worship, which assumes that there now is a way to worship the existing God, but that way may or may not have a point. Since, you've already answered your questions, why bother asking them? You have no knowedge to gain for yourself, just a re-affirmation of your belief at best, which is not likely at this forum unless you ignore or try to refute each response. Sadly, the rest of your post makes about as much sense to me as the end of a Chick tract, and seems to have equal footing in reality. But I could be wrong.




Emotions are common to all living things, not specifically part of human nature, as our desire to understand our surroundings and our tendency to band together. You say we do not settle down by natural means, and try to treat a desire to understand (a drive to look for "something else," presumably a means of explanation that is not immediately at hand) as some sort of emotion. But emotions appear to be common to all animals, whereas the desire to understand does not, although it may be the cause of emotions. Also, we do appear to settle down by natural means, if not in cities, at least in tribes or factions. Furthermore, it would seem that human nature to worship or treasure someone would have this effect on our species, if you say that it is also human nature to defend who or what what they worship or treasure.


Now you are confusing mythology with the truth. Truth is, we don't know what happened before this exact second, but we have so much evidence provided by things we call "memory," "archaeology," "written history," and "anthropology," all of which seem to be consistent with one another. They may not be exact, they may even be lies, but since they are coherent and provide something which we skeptics call
"evidence," they are somewhat more valid than myth or conjecture, which may also be lies. In order to claim the Athens of Ancient Greece existed, something like the Parthenon or Acropolis is used to support that claim in conjunction with the writings of the so-called "Ancient Greeks" that are still available (and that's not even the bare minimum according to some). If you wanted to assume that Adam and Eve were true, you'd need something like God's giant flaming sword that turns every which way to cast the man out of Eden, and maybe some cherubim at the gate. Nobody has found anything that conclusive regarding that story, but look at all the stuff we found in Greece.


Those customs seem unrelated the way you describe them. Different countries have different rituals. There's more than one religion. So what?

Nope. Love is not necessarily reciprocating. I learned that from experience. Sometimes you find you love someone else more, or that you never really loved your girlfriend anyway, or that feeling you had that you said was gonna last forever didn't after all the awkward high school sex, or you realize you two really just hate each other, so the relationship is terminated in a way that is not depressing. But since it's just a statement of experience, it's no more valid than what you said.


So you are basically saying that theism causes immorality. You've also assumed that similar syllables in different languages have exactly the same meaning. There's an english word "see,"
and a Spanish word "ci." The similarity has no more meaning than "Bezebul" or whatever you want to call it because you want to accuse the Hindus of worshipping "Belzebub." And who the hell worships statues these days anyway? Isolated North African and Micronesian tribes? Also, these things are trivial compared to what Christians have done in the name of their god for ages. Why aren't they mentioned?


You've already answered your initial questions for yourself. Also, the concept of God is exactly that: a concept. If there are multiple gods in existence, the "one true god" of monotheism is a lie, because all those gods you mentioned cannot be gods, yet you first postulated their existence as gods, and it is unreasonable to negate your own postulate.



"Love" does not include imposing your beliefs on others. Imposing your beliefs on others has another name: "biggotry." If your religion is constructed so that love equals biggotry, then it is unlikely that your God is anywere near "true." I remind you that no amount of belief can change fact, and that your god is (in your own style of capitalization) NOT FACT (I remind you that I am not using sophist logic, that "not fact" does not necessarily mean "false.") For, if your god were fact, then belief or disbelief would make no difference to him, since a) his laws would be natural and universal b) there is no need to demand obedience for laws which you involuntarily "obey" (you can discuss that with Franko). By your example, it appears that "God" is really just a way to pretend to know how things work so you can stop questioning and get on with your warm and fuzzy life. No knowledge of God is real knowledge. No amount of belief amounts to any knowledge whatsoever. Man desires knowledge, and knowledge really exists. Man turns to God, man does not recieve knowledge, he gets sophistry from people like you. He just feels happy in his oblivion toward the world and his attitude toward God anyway, man never realizes what he's missed out on before he dies. He has only questioned as far as how to do his job and what to think when he's not doing his job. And by the way, based on the world at hand, intuition or feeling has no effect whatsoever on a 50/50 situation such as Pascal's little wager, and the existence of things such as human imagination stack the odds against the fool who knows what God is, for if there is some sort of God, it may have nothing to do with what you "know". And accusing other gods of being false isn't going to help you at all if one of them turns out to be real and not yours, and since other gods outnumber yours, the probability favors any god but yours. (For example, assuming there is a god, and there are 10 possible gods, you have a 9 in 10 chance of being wrong, and if you insult all other possible gods by calling them false, you have a 9 in 10 chance of being poorly recieved by that god. But I suppose probability doesn't matter to the believer until it's too late.)

And, just to warn you, if you make a bunch of random claims on this board and don't provide evidence while assuming you right, or even make the attempt to use logic to support those claims, you may recieve the honorable title of http://www.texastoys.com/site/woowoo.gif

First of all, lets not get into detail with "atheists" are smarter than christians. That primitive lie isnt going anywhere here (especially when yur talking to me). 99% of universities are founded by christians (princeton,harvard,ucdavis,etc.). So dont even go there, and even your Einstein guy is a pantheism (who believes God is the nature and order of things.) And dont even try to quote some of his to say he's an atheist from the jesuit priests view.... HOW MANY UNIVERSITIES FOUNDED BY AN ATHEIST? 1? 2? LOL... HOW MANY ATHEIST PRESIDENTS AND SENATORS? 1? 2? LOL, oh is it the vote? Of course, people can recognize the real ignorant one..

Now going back to the emotions, I am completely aware that the only difference between the human species and the animals is that we have higher intelligence, thats it. But from there, our brain can detect colors, identify smell, produce more chemicals (which can effect in STRONGER emotons.). I am aware that when I leave, my dog feels emotional and will cry. I am aware that when I corrected my dog for doing wrong, it learns and gains the emotions of fear (For all I know they could have a conscience, who knows, I believe they do.)

So what makes us different from animals is the higher intelligence, from there we can learn from the "God given WORD". "My words are spirit and life"- Jesus. "The mind is the seat of wisdom". And I certainly dont think a chimpanzee is capable of that level of intelligence. I cant picture a bishop Chimpanzee. But of course if they evolve into that higher intelligence (like us) millions of yrs from now, hey they can be baptized too and bcome christian.. :) LOL

In case if your ignorant about the word "soul" (and u must be;it seemed like it). everything that lives have a soul that gives them life, from rocks, to plants, to animals, to humans (so what do u call the "energy" that gives rock its life? bio-chemical sub-atomic monosodium glutamate particle? Is that the scientific name for a "soul"?). but only the human species have a soul in which made a covenant with God, being above all the animals species and the rest of the animal kingdom; A FACT.

note: Your very strange, u act like you red my post, but dont see what I typed, I dont think u read it, and if u didnt red it dont act like u did ok?.. U said above who the heck worships statuies nowadays? Maybe you, and millions of others, the rappers, etc. Willing to sacrifice their life for a car with nice grills, wwilling to lose their marriage for it, willing to kill for it, willing to loose their respect for human kind to obtain it (materialism) it comes in many form child........
----------------------------------------------


And one more thing, about the flaming sword that swings back and forth in the story of Adam and Eve, and the Dragon in Revelation, etc. its all symbolic and parables....

You certainly are very primitive in this topic, and because I realized there are many people like you here (gosh ignorant 40 yrs old, can u believe that?) then Im gonna start another post to DEBUNK your pathetic so-called bible contradiction MYTH......

[c4ts]

First of all, lets not get into detail with "atheists" are smarter than christians. That primitive lie isnt going anywhere here (especially when yur talking to me). 99% of universities are founded by christians (princeton,harvard,ucdavis,etc.). So dont even go there, and even your Einstein guy is a pantheism (who believes God is the nature and order of things.) And dont even try to quote some of his to say he's an atheist from the jesuit priests view.... HOW MANY UNIVERSITIES FOUNDED BY AN ATHEIST? 1? 2? LOL... HOW MANY ATHEIST PRESIDENTS AND SENATORS? 1? 2? LOL, oh is it the vote? Of course, people can recognize the real ignorant one..

You bring up countless witnesses, Gorgias.

Just becasue you're smarter than I am doesn't make you right. Also: http://www.objectivethought.com/atheism/iqstats.html

In case if your ignorant about the word "soul" (and u must be;it seemed like it). everything that lives have a soul that gives them life, from rocks, to plants, to animals, to humans (so what do u call the "energy" that gives rock its life? bio-chemical sub-atomic monosodium glutamate particle? Is that the scientific name for a "soul"?). but only the human species have a soul in which made a covenant with God, being above all the animals species and the rest of the animal kingdom; A FACT.

If I said that the soul is a sort of quality (like "sourness") that distinguishes a living thing from a nonliving thing, is that a demonstration of ignorance? All humans have souls, so do all plants, animals, and other organisms, including bacteria. I could even say that viruses have a sort of proto-soul or pseudo-soul.

The soul is not proof of the existence of God. You just have some sort of weird assumption that the soul is the spirit.

[c4ts]

I cant picture a bishop Chimpanzee.

[c4ts]

U said above who the heck worships statuies nowadays? Maybe you, and millions of others, the rappers, etc. Willing to sacrifice their life for a car with nice grills, wwilling to lose their marriage for it, willing to kill for it, willing to loose their respect for human kind to obtain it (materialism) it comes in many form child........

You make a great deal of accusations as if your convictions made things true, which they don't. Apparently have difficulty understanding what worship really is. Emulation, fandom, materialism, devotion, and general appreciation, are not the same as worship, although worship may sometimes include them. Just becasue you're willing to kill for something does not mean you worship it. Worship involves ritual and usually prayer. Also, worship does not usually have literal targets. Buddhists worship Buddha, meaning they contemplate the teachings of Buddha and follow his advice, they do not worship those statues you see in Chinese restaurants. Christians worship Jesus, they do not worship the t-shaped thingy you see at every church. The ancient Greeks worshipped their gods, not the statues representing their gods. The statues were part of their ritual, they were not the target of worship. You should get to know some people who are what you call idoleters. Instead of trying to convert them, I suggest you find out why they do what they do, and then see for yourself if it is wrong or not.

[c4ts]

And one more thing, about the flaming sword that swings back and forth in the story of Adam and Eve, and the Dragon in Revelation, etc. its all symbolic and parables....

And so are Adam and Eve. So are Cain and Abel. So is Abraham. So is Isaac. So is Gog. So is Magog. So is Gabriel (etc)...

[c4ts]

You certainly are very primitive in this topic, and because I realized there are many people like you here (gosh ignorant 40 yrs old, can u believe that?) then Im gonna start another post to DEBUNK your pathetic so-called bible contradiction MYTH......

You mean I told a story somewhere?

You're 40? You mean practically half your life is over, and you're wasting time on silly things like trying to convince skeptics through rhetoric???

Have you even lived for a day?

Do you really think you know everything when it appears you comprehend almost nothing? Haven't you even wondered why you were alive in the first place? Have you even contemplated the mysteries of death, or did you just assume that since someone told you there was Heaven and Hell, that they were correct? What did you want out of life? Happiness or the truth?

I'm sorry I was a bit harsh, but if you're really 40, and you're here bothering skeptics, that's just... unhealthy. :( If you really think this is love, and that you are trying to help us, I seriously reccomend that you see a psychologist or something. I don't see how you can really be content with your life if you are taking your convictions out on others like the people at this message board.

[muscleman]

Originally posted by c4ts


You make a great deal of accusations as if your convictions made things true, which they don't. Apparently have difficulty understanding what worship really is. Emulation, fandom, materialism, devotion, and general appreciation, are not the same as worship, although worship may sometimes include them. Just becasue you're willing to kill for something does not mean you worship it. Worship involves ritual and usually prayer. Also, worship does not usually have literal targets. Buddhists worship Buddha, meaning they contemplate the teachings of Buddha and follow his advice, they do not worship those statues you see in Chinese restaurants. Christians worship Jesus, they do not worship the t-shaped thingy you see at every church. The ancient Greeks worshipped their gods, not the statues representing their gods. The statues were part of their ritual, they were not the target of worship. You should get to know some people who are what you call idoleters. Instead of trying to convert them, I suggest you find out why they do what they do, and then see for yourself if it is wrong or not.

Thats why u need to read the paragraphs above before making comments about it and acting like u read it when the fact is u didnt (unless of course yur a complete dummy.).

If I idolize Arnold Schwarzenneger, I desire to be big like Him, talk like him, wear clothes the way he wears it, and get buff like him, etc. And from yur paragraphs above, your calling these "Worship"...YOUR SELF-CONTRADICTORY...(theres a thin line, Im about to call u names but not yet..).

Or if I idolize a car, sometimes I check it everymorning. If I own a very nice car (GTO classics,whatever) and someone tried to rob it and I have a gun, I am willing to pull the triger and kill him so I can keep my idol...
What is prayer? Prayer is talking to god(s), preaching is talking about god(s). We make songs dedicated for God, we call this praise and worship..
We do the same, rappers make songs dedicated to cars with nice grills "Cadillca grills, etc."- Ludacris. Or the beach boys made a song in the 50's about GTO's.
I know few guys who would talk to their car and say "I love u baby" and say to their friends "This is my baby"... An emotional expression of their heart........

I SEE NOTHING DIFFERENT FROM PEOPLE WHO WORSHIP GOLDEN STATUES THEN, TO MATERIALISTIC PEOPLE TODAY. MURDER, SONGS, STEALING, ETC. ARE THE FRUITS OF THESE WORSHIP....

[muscleman]

Originally posted by c4ts


And so are Adam and Eve. So are Cain and Abel. So is Abraham. So is Isaac. So is Gog. So is Magog. So is Gabriel (etc)...

Thats right, thats why there is an authority who have the right to interpret the bible, HMM I WONDER WHERE THE BIBLE WAS STOLEN FROM!!!

THE BIBLE WAS STOLEN, IF MARTIN LUTHER IS STILL ALIVE TODAY, HE WILL BE SUED FOR PUBLISHING IT WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE RIGHTFULL OWNER....And stealing is a sin..

Thats why the world is confused, who can interpret it? some take this literally, others didnt...

[muscleman]

Originally posted by c4ts


You mean I told a story somewhere?

You're 40? You mean practically half your life is over, and you're wasting time on silly things like trying to convince skeptics through rhetoric???

Have you even lived for a day?

Do you really think you know everything when it appears you comprehend almost nothing? Haven't you even wondered why you were alive in the first place? Have you even contemplated the mysteries of death, or did you just assume that since someone told you there was Heaven and Hell, that they were correct? What did you want out of life? Happiness or the truth?

I'm sorry I was a bit harsh, but if you're really 40, and you're here bothering skeptics, that's just... unhealthy. :( If you really think this is love, and that you are trying to help us, I seriously reccomend that you see a psychologist or something. I don't see how you can really be content with your life if you are taking your convictions out on others like the people at this message board.

I have done all that, and Im smart enough to know that God exist......

Its so easy to be stupid, I mean its so easy to be skeptic. Prove to me you exist? How do I know your not a computer program? Designed to entertain us for financial gain?

Hopw do I know scientist wasnt lying and just fooling all of us into thinking that blackhole exist? Pictures? It could be computer generated. Telescopes? How do I know what I see is not a blackhole but something else? I can be so sketic all the way, and I am skeptic, BUT A SKEPTIC WITH COMMON SENSE, THATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME.........

[Ladewig]

As they say over at ALT.FOLKLORE.URBAN, I've got dibs on this one.

"THE BIBLE WAS STOLEN, IF MARTIN LUTHER IS STILL ALIVE TODAY, HE WILL BE SUED FOR PUBLISHING IT WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE RIGHTFULL OWNER....And stealing is a sin.."

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally posted by muscleman

How do I know scientist wasnt lying and just fooling all of us into thinking that blackhole exist? Pictures? It could be computer generated. Telescopes? How do I know what I see is not a blackhole but something else? I can be so sketic all the way, and I am skeptic, BUT A SKEPTIC WITH COMMON SENSE, THATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME.........

Muscleman, I cannot believe that you are posting to a skeptics forum without knowing the concept and value of the scientific method. If you do not believe the scientific method works, then you are a conspiracy theorist of the worst sort.

You are using a tool, the computer, that was brought into existence by science. It is ironic that you now use it to claim that science is untrustworthy.

You cannot take what you want from science and leave the rest. The reason I believe in black holes is because their existence has been independently verified by many scientists, using several different methods, and using the scientific method.

Oh, and you are an idiot. (Thrown in to add some weight to my argument)

[Wile E. Coyote]

Muscleman, are you a politician? You have an extraordinary gift for avoiding the question. This indicates to me that you concede the point, but do not wish to lose face.

Thank you for acknowledging the wisdom of my words.

[muscleman]

I have not missed anything tj, because I thought u were intelligent, but I realize your not, so here I post the complete answer for idiots..

Originally posted by tjwojo


Muscleman, I cannot believe that you are posting to a skeptics forum without knowing the concept and value of the scientific method. If you do not believe the scientific method works, then you are a conspiracy theorist of the worst sort.

You are using a tool, the computer, that was brought into existence by science. It is ironic that you now use it to claim that science is untrustworthy.

You are saying that Im using the fruit of science, yet question science, ther4efore it aint right because either I take it all, and take none...Maybe your right, but lets see...

The earliest form of governing (Zooratism, cant remember) thousands of yrs before hinduism or judaism or greeks, etc. is a form of religion, where it acknowledges a God..

So in this case u cant acknowledge respect for governing without respect of God agree?
----------------------------------------------------
Below is just to show you that the truth in science can also be develope LIKE religion........
Science used to say the tiniest particle is atom, now its down to quarks and sub-atomic particles..
It used to be impossible through science for a man to land on moon, now its possible..
Sounds like the Roman Catholic church to me. Where it started out small, but developes overtime........


Originally posted by tjwojo

You cannot take what you want from science and leave the rest.

You cant take things out of context, I agree...Thats why Im a theist because Im not stupid...:)


Originally posted by tjwojo

The reason I believe in black holes is because their existence has been independently verified by many scientists, using several different methods, and using the scientific method.

Oh, and you are an idiot. (Thrown in to add some weight to my argument)

How do I know they are all not lying? Theres alot of money involve in this research, how do I know they didnt lie for financial gain?

By the way, I do believe in all of scientific FACTS (Some theories are questionable) But this is just to show you how stupid it is to be a skeptic without common ground (sense)..

And by the way, your the stupid one, stupid......

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally posted by muscleman

By the way, I do believe in all of scientific FACTS (Some theories are questionable) But this is just to show you how stupid it is to be a skeptic without common ground (sense)..


Would you care to expound on which theories are questionable? Like the Theory of Gravity or the Theory of Evolution? Just curious.

[Doctor X]

Why not?

Need the exercise. . . .

First of all, lets (sic) not get into detail with "atheists" are smarter than christians (sic).

Argumentum ad veritatem obfuscandam--verging on a Strawman of sorts.


That primitive lie isnt (sic)going anywhere here (especially when yur (sic) talking to me). 99% of universities are founded by christians (sic) (princeton (sic),harvard (sic),ucdavis (sic),etc.).

Argumentum ad captandum vulgus and, of course, irrelevant to the actual topic.

So dont (sic) even go there, and even your Einstein guy is a pantheism (sic) (who believes God is the nature and order of things.) And dont (sic) even try to quote some of his (sic) to say he's an atheist from the jesuit priests (sic) view.... HOW MANY UNIVERSITIES (SIC) FOUNDED BY AN ATHEIST? 1? 2? LOL... HOW MANY ATHEIST PRESIDENTS AND SENATORS? 1? 2? LOL, oh is it the vote?

See above.

Again, complete ignorance of the topic.

Of course, people can recognize the real ignorant one..

At the danger of responding to this argumentum ad captandum vulgus with an argumentum ad captandum vulgus I must concede that the "people" here have so judged the ignorance of the individual.

Now going back to the emotions, I am completely aware that the only difference between the human species and the animals is that we have higher intelligence. . . .

If an unkind man, I would wonder if the individual makes this mistake because he does not recognize the inability of species to interbreed, which would, only if an unkind man, lead me to understand why he appears so frustrated and unfulfilled.

However, I remain "meaur'd in manner and speech," and will not broach that unfortunate possibility.

. . . thats (sic) it. But from there, our brain can detect colors, identify smell, produce more chemicals (which can effect in STRONGER emotons.).

Something animals can do.

So what makes us different from animals is the higher intelligence, from there we can learn from the "God given WORD".

Does not follow, of course.

In case if your (sic)ignorant about the word "soul"

Rather than ignorant of a level of grammer mastered by a cerebral palsied gnat?

(and u (sic) must be;it seemed like it).

Interesting, an argumentum ad hominem delivered to support a Poisoning of the Well "supported" by an ipse dixit.

Nevertheless, incorrect, since the individual has Fail'd to Address the Question of the Soul present'd to him some time past on this very thread.

Why?

Ignorance?

Cowardice?

everything that lives have (sic) a soul that gives them life, from rocks, to plants, to animals, to humans. . . .

I did not realize rocks constituted life.

Nevertheless, this remains an unsupported ipse dixit. Consideration of the Question of the Soul would rather rock, so to write, these suppositions.

bio-chemical sub-atomic monosodium glutamate particle? Is that the scientific name for a "soul"?).

Molecules are not subatomic.

. . . but only the human species have (sic) a soul in which made a covenant with God, being above all the animals species and the rest of the animal kingdom; A FACT.

A claim. An unsubstantiated claim. An unsubstantiated sentence fragment claim.

Unfortunately, labeling something a "fact" does not make it so. I wish it were, for I would have converted a delusion involving Uma Thurmon and a hot-tub into "fact" long ago . . . provided she first lifted the restraining order.

note: Your very strange, u act like you red my post, but dont see what I typed, . . .

Methinks that attrocity may stand without further comment.

I dont think u read it, and if u didnt red it dont act like u did ok?

. . . as well as that.

.. U (sic) said (sic) above who the heck worships statuies (sic) nowadays? Maybe you, and millions of others, the rappers, etc.

This, and the following verbage, again fails to address the point, becomes a non sequitur verging on the argumentum ad veritatum obfuscandum if not another argumentum ad hominem et Poisoning the Well.

Next. . . .

--J.D.

[MartinGibbs]

Posted by muscleman:

"That primitive lie isnt going anywhere here (especially when yur talking to me). "


Man, I just love the humility and respect you learned from being such a good Christian.

And I'm sorry I sounded arrogant. I just have hard time with folks who don't act what they're taught. Not that I judge, because he who judges is himself judged.

[muscleman]

Originally posted by tjwojo


Would you care to expound on which theories are questionable? Like the Theory of Gravity or the Theory of Evolution? Just curious.

I question the theory of gravity....

There is a scientific evidence that gravity is a myth.

There is no gravity, there is "Quantum force". In space, asteroids are in motions and bonds with other elements like it, just as magnets are in bond with other magnets, so are asteroids.
They are moved by "Quantum force" some bonds with stars and other planets, some make it to earth, and other planets in our Galaxies. There is nothing underneath earth that pulls us down, there is only heat and lava underneath like sun, the effect of the big bang, but such heat doesnt cause elements and things to bond with earth.
Gravity is a myth theorized for generations, thanks to telescope and modern technology, now the truth is unveiled! (This is to counteract, as u guys counteracted the proven "Higher intelligence" with quantum mechanics.)


GRAVITY IS A MYTH, THERE IS NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT GRAVITY AND ITS EXISTENCE, THERE IS "QUANTUM FORCE" AND ITS PROVEN, THIS IS A NEW SCIENTIFIC DATA...


note: DoctorX, your a psycho...

[muscleman]

Ill clarify it one more time...

Gravity is a myth....

There is nothing under the earth that demonstrates pulling us down, there is only lava, even in the core inside our planet like that of a sun but not as extreme.
Meanwhile, there is proof of "Quantum force". Asteroids are always in motion even by millions of miles away, our gravity simply doesnt have any responsibility of causing their motion, otherwise we will be vacuumed all the way in considering our mass is nothing compared to giant asteroids some even bigger than our planet!


Now what causes asteroids to clash on planets? Few even make it on earth. Its "quantum force" it gives it motion. Just as if you have a stong electricity, you can put a bronze in front of it and wherever u move the bronze, the elctricity follows it. The same with "quantum force", wheres tha planets are is where the force degenerates its energy. Thats why we stay in place here, not because we are being pulled down from underneath, but because we are pushed down from above, simple.
Now the source of Quantum force originately came from the same root where stars are born. This discovery was made possible few years ago from a superb giant telescope.

It gives out planets, and at the same time "force". In fact the galaxy is like creatures, it gives birth with planets, it poops out the blackhole, and that poop are recycled inside the blackhole (its a huge landscape inside there) it fertilizes inside their, and becomes fresh asteroids. Then that asteroid will be eaten by this giant thingy that looks like JLo's mouth, and then the circle of galxy life begins again over and over. By the way, all this happened by "super-duper luck".

This is the new scientific launch I started. In fact there is much much more to come....

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Well, it's now official.

Muscleman is either a stark-raving loony, or he is just f*cking with us.

I suspect the latter.

Dr. Stupid

[c4ts]

Originally posted by muscleman


I question the theory of gravity....

There is a scientific evidence that gravity is a myth.

There is no gravity, there is "Quantum force". In space, asteroids are in motions and bonds with other elements like it, just as magnets are in bond with other magnets, so are asteroids.
They are moved by "Quantum force" some bonds with stars and other planets, some make it to earth, and other planets in our Galaxies. There is nothing underneath earth that pulls us down, there is only heat and lava underneath like sun, the effect of the big bang, but such heat doesnt cause elements and things to bond with earth.
Gravity is a myth theorized for generations, thanks to telescope and modern technology, now the truth is unveiled! (This is to counteract, as u guys counteracted the proven "Higher intelligence" with quantum mechanics.)


GRAVITY IS A MYTH, THERE IS NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT GRAVITY AND ITS EXISTENCE, THERE IS "QUANTUM FORCE" AND ITS PROVEN, THIS IS A NEW SCIENTIFIC DATA...


note: DoctorX, your a psycho...

Isn't that just restating graviton theory?

[Doctor X]

The apparently cowardly individual rises up from the gutter and grouses thusly:

I question the theory of gravity....

I must ask someone to provide a "cymbal clash."

There is a (sic) scientific evidence that gravity is a myth.

Ipse dixit.

There is no gravity, there is "Quantum force".

Perchance a "rose by anyother name?"

In space, asteroids are in motions and bonds with other elements like it, just as magnets are in bond with other magnets, so are asteroids.

Well that rather does it for this flow of verbal diarrhea. With all due kindness accorded one who is not a gentleman, I recommend consultation with a physics textbook that discusses the revolutionary concept of "electromagnetism."

We could similarly dismiss the rest as the drivel born from willful ignorance it represents however, this is far too entertaining:

There is nothing underneath earth that pulls us down, there is only heat and lava underneath like sun, . . .

Did not realize the Earth had a fusion reactor at its core. Who is responsible? Ernst Stavaro Blofeld? Does Bond know about this? Who will play the girl in the upcoming movie?

. . . the effect of the big bang, but such heat doesnt cause elements and things to bond with earth.

Ahh . . . okay . . . elements "and things" bond with other elements and things which, incidentally, the Earth is compris'd of.

Gravity is a myth theorized for generations, . . .

All of those poor unfortunates who fell and hurt themselves over the centuries. . . .

. . . thanks to telescope. . . .

Did Gallileo know this? What was he hiding?!!

. . . and modern technology, now the truth is unveiled!

Waiting.

Waiting.

(This is to counteract, as u guys counteracted the proven "Higher intelligence" with quantum mechanics.)

No evidence there. Maybe here, it has capitals so it must be important:

GRAVITY IS A MYTH, THERE IS NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT GRAVITY AND ITS EXISTENCE, THERE IS "QUANTUM FORCE" AND ITS PROVEN, THIS IS A NEW SCIENTIFIC DATA...

without any evidence.

note: DoctorX, your a psycho...

Argumentum ad hominem and a rather weak one, at that. I had hoped that despite his Cowardice the individual could muster at least a half of a wit.

Evidentally not. . . .

Next. . . .

--J.D.

Of yes! Nearly forgot! What a scatter-brain I must be!

The CHILD Awaits an Answer

The Brain Stem Awaits an Answer

[Wile E. Coyote]

I am convinced that muscleman is just messing with us. Nobody is that absurd. At least, no one who can type a complete sentence without drooling all over the keyboard can be that absurd.

In restrospect, muscleman is pretty funny.

[whitefork]

Oh, dear. For those who missed our last analysis of universal gravitation, see the following: http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9858

Do a FIND on "Big Bang" and start from there.

[Mr. Skinny]

I rarely post in the R&P forum but, my Ed , that's gotta be the most amusing post I've read in quite some time, muscleman.

*golf clap* for Stimpy and Doctor X.

Sorry to interrupt. Please continue.

[Doctor X]

I will let Stimpy take the bow since he did his work with much greater succinctness.

--J.D.

[Mr. Skinny]

Originally posted by Doctor X
I will let Stimpy take the bow since he did his work with much greater succinctness.

--J.D.
Stimpy's succintness does not necessarily detract from my enjoyment of your replies Doctor X.

I haven't seen (sic) in a post that often in some time, and for some odd reason, that added to my appreciation of your response.

I think I'm becoming a Doctor X fan.

[thaiboxerken]

I don't think that muscleman is just a troll only here to "mess with us". I suspect that he really is a theist and actually believes the nonsense he posts. This guy is so desperate to convince us of his god that he will question scientifics facts and call them outright lies. He want's us to believe that science is a big conspiracy designed to bring down religion and to blaspheme his god. It's sad that these people exist.

[muscleman]

stupid thaiboxerken, dont put words in my mouth, I never said that "SCIENCE" is a big conspiracy..
I believe in scientifical facts, from mdeical field, to gheographical field, but some theory are questionable, even gravity (though a general belief) can itself be questioned, just to demonstrate to you how ILLOGIC AND STUPID it is to be a skeptic without common sense (a common understanding of known facts) you Dummy..

Science only points out the existence of God more than the universe as "Super Duper coincidence!!"...

[Doctor X]

Almost too easy. . . .

stupid thaiboxerken

Argumentum ad hominem.

The last refuge of the defeated.

The child pretends to pugilistic prowness; yet, thus far he has had his figurative ears literally box'd by everyone.

I believe in scientifical facts, from mdeical field, to gheographical (sic) field, . . .

Unfortunately the child behaved otherwise with his posts.

Rather pathetic tantrum follows. . . .

Science only points out the existence of God more than the universe as "Super Duper coincidence!!"..

Ipse dixit and rather incorrect.

Nevertheless, which such a lofty claim, this child should be able to choose which conclusion of the Pontine Tumor Proof [All Rights Reserved.--Ed.] is correct, or he can justify the suffering.

Waiting. . . .

Waiting. . . .

Waiting. . . .

Did he put both legs through one of his boxing trunk's holes?

Did he trip himself up in the ropes?

Next. . . .

--J.D.

[Edited for the codes . . . the codes. . . .--Ed.]

[c4ts]

Originally posted by muscleman


Thats right, thats why there is an authority who have the right to interpret the bible, HMM I WONDER WHERE THE BIBLE WAS STOLEN FROM!!!

Well, much the part about the flood in the Old Testament is stolen from Sumerian myth, along with the myth about the Garden of Eden, although they were changed slightly to demonstrate monotheism, Jesus steals Platonic philosophy...

[Stimpson J. Cat]

"Scientifical" :eek:

Why are you guys still humoring this pinhead? :rolleyes:

Dr. Stupid

[c4ts]

Originally posted by muscleman
stupid thaiboxerken, dont put words in my mouth, I never said that "SCIENCE" is a big conspiracy..
I believe in scientifical facts...
Uh, if they're facts, why should any sort of belief matter whatsoever? Also, is "scientifical" even a real word?

but some theory are questionable
Some? The very basis of science is that all theories are questionable, and therefore are supposed to be tested through observation and experiment.

even gravity (though a general belief) can itself be questioned, just to demonstrate to you how ILLOGIC AND STUPID it is to be a skeptic without common sense (a common understanding of known facts) you Dummy..
No. Gravity is not a matter belief, it is a name given to the observation of a downward tendency in all things. Observation occurs when you notice something, and you do not have to "believe" anything because it won't change what you actually observed. When was the last time something fell up instead of down?

Science only points out the existence of God more than the universe as "Super Duper coincidence!!"...
Look out Franko! It's the Strawman!
Oops, wrong thread.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by muscleman
Ill clarify it one more time...

Gravity is a myth....

There is nothing under the earth that demonstrates pulling us down, there is only lava, even in the core inside our planet like that of a sun but not as extreme.
Meanwhile, there is proof of "Quantum force". Asteroids are always in motion even by millions of miles away, our gravity simply doesnt have any responsibility of causing their motion, otherwise we will be vacuumed all the way in considering our mass is nothing compared to giant asteroids some even bigger than our planet!



Hi Troll.
Congratulations I thought nobody would ever surpass Jedi Knights demonstrated lack of understanding of basic physics...but i was wrong. Please tell me you are making a joke here.... were you asleep at school?

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by muscleman
stupid thaiboxerken

It's apparent, by reading your posts, that I'm not the stupid one here.

, dont put words in my mouth, I never said that "SCIENCE" is a big conspiracy..

But you imply it with your absurd questioning of gravity.

I believe in scientifical facts, from mdeical field, to gheographical field, but some theory are questionable, even gravity (though a general belief) can itself be questioned, just to demonstrate to you how ILLOGIC AND STUPID it is to be a skeptic without common sense (a common understanding of known facts) you Dummy..

The theory of gravity can be questioned, the fact that gravity exists cannot (reasonably) be questioned.

Science only points out the existence of God more than the universe as "Super Duper coincidence!!"...

No, science doesn't even address god. Science doesn't attempt to make observations about things that don't exist.

[ntech]

Originally posted by muscleman
stupid thaiboxerken, dont put words in my mouth, I never said that "SCIENCE" is a big conspiracy..
I believe in scientifical facts, from mdeical field, to gheographical field, but some theory are questionable, even gravity (though a general belief) can itself be questioned, just to demonstrate to you how ILLOGIC AND STUPID it is to be a skeptic without common sense (a common understanding of known facts) you Dummy..

Science only points out the existence of God more than the universe as "Super Duper coincidence!!"...

Yeah that's right muscleman,

Gravity is really a big magical being in the sky blowing us with his breath back to the ground.

[CWL]

Originally posted by muscleman
THE BIBLE WAS STOLEN, IF MARTIN LUTHER IS STILL ALIVE TODAY, HE WILL BE SUED FOR PUBLISHING IT WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE RIGHTFULL OWNER....And stealing is a sin..

Being a commercial lawyer, I know a bit about copyright and intellectual property law. I take it the above is not intended to be taken literally. If I am incorrect in this assumption, I would be very interested in learning how you believe such a case against Mr. Luther would be stated.

[BobM]

stupid thaiboxerken

It's apparent, by reading your posts, that I'm not the stupid one here.I have to go with Thaiboxerken on this one. It's entirely too apparent who the stupid one is.

I can't believe that this guy is for real. He's gotta be a troll.

[Plutarck]

THE BIBLE WAS STOLEN, IF MARTIN LUTHER IS STILL ALIVE TODAY, HE WILL BE SUED FOR PUBLISHING IT WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE RIGHTFULL OWNER....And stealing is a sin..

This was the part that set off my ********-O-Meter, it's just way beyond a reasonable normally encountered level of stupidity.

The "...IF MARTIN LUTHER IS STILL ALIVE TODAY..." part, given that Martin Luther has been dead for 400 some-odd years, is just beyond a level of believable stupidity.

Surely there are many that are quite that ignorant, but it just feels as though there must be some leg-pulling going on.

If not...weeeellll, let's just hope he has some sort of brain injury or some non-heritable genetic or physical defect, and that the appearance of such a display is merely a statistical anomaly.

The thought that such a thing is merely human nature gone awry is just too horrid a one for such a sunny day in the sunshine state.

Oh my...it appears the heavens have gone gray and are raining blood and frogs...

[Yahzi]

so what do u call the "energy" that gives rock its life?
Rocks have life?

One is compelled to wonder what constitutes non-life in the Muscleman world.

Then one realizes that he just makes this crap up as he goes along, so you can't expect it have meaning or even consistency.

I need a longer /ingore list.