Coming out of a different manner

[A_Feeble_Mind]

I was reading through some of the material at http://www.atheists.org and came across an interesting article:

http://www.atheists.org/comingout/othercloset.html

I fall into "category 1" and was curious about any atheist coming out stories or advice from those who have already done it.

[arcticpenguin]

I am probably about a 4, although it varies with context. Most of my siblings know. I never told my parents, I'm sure my mother in particular might not have been able to handle it, but they are both dead now. Any of my co-workers who have bothered to ask know. If it comes up in conversation, I will acknowledge it, but will usually not start such conversations.

When I visit my childhood turf in the Midwest, I may be a little more careful about what I say. I remember once the topic came up when I was talking to my aunt, and I told here I was an atheist. My high shcool-educated cousin was there, and he asked, "an atheist? does that mean you worship the devil?" That kind of ignorance could get me killed, and I would prefer not to deal with it.

I live in a job where religion is not an issue and open inquiry is valued. I live in a region where freedom of religion is valued, almost to the point of ridiculosity. This means I am free to be openly atheist here, but it also means that all the various cults have a presence as well.

BTW, I was raised Catholic and didn't become atheist until I was ~ 21, so all those childhood acquaintances are people I attended Catholic school (grades 1-12) with.

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Thanks for the response. If you don't mind my questions, at what point did you actually start "outing" yourself, how did you do it and what was the reaction?

[PixyMisa]

I'm a 4. In Australia, it doesn't seem to matter nearly as much; I can't recall anyone ever reacting in shock or horror on learning I'm an atheist.

Been that way since I was 12.

[Iconoclast]

I didn't have to come out, I was never in. From my earlies recollections of being told bible stories (the Ark was perhaps the first), I always had the "this story makes no sense" attitude.

Pixy is quite correct about religion in Australia. Though I'd guess 80% of us tick one of the "Religion" boxes on the census form, very few of us go to church on anything approaching a regular basis. I'm only forced to attend if someone I know get married or dies.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind
Thanks for the response. If you don't mind my questions, at what point did you actually start "outing" yourself, how did you do it and what was the reaction?
I was in college at the time I became atheistic. It was the year I studied both biochemistry and new testament history. :rolleyes: I had discussions with friends about it. I remember shortly after making the final decision, telling a girlfriend and getting dumped for it.

Oh, and that conversation with my aunt? She told me that my grandmother was probably an atheist. That was very reassuring.

[Peskanov]

4-5, is changes over time.
I was raised as catholic, and for a short time I was 1.
I started having serious doubts around age 10, at age 13 I simply could believe it anymore.
One sunday, when my parents were preparing for going to the church, I "came out" and told my mother I didn't want to attend mass, as I as I did not believe in god.
I remenber clearly it's face, expressing a mix of deception, fear, angst... I regret doing that, because it was not necessary. My parents forced me to continue attending mass, but over the years my brothers started searching excuses to avoid sunday's masses. Slowly, my parents had to acknowledge no one of us (seven brothers) was going to be a practisin christian.
I still attend mass ocasionally for funerals, weddings, etc...I don't know what my mothers thinks about my religious views, or my brothers ones. I think she prefer to ignore it...
BTW, my grandfather does not know about our disbelief. We do our best to keep him ignoring our opinions; he would probably be utterly disgusted, and it would be bad for his health. With 96 years over his back, I think myself doing some imposture is ok...

[soccer_ref]

I must have been 10 or 11 when I started the process. My mother insisted that I go to religion classes (RC) after school. The day was fine, unusual for a Vancouver spring, and I told her, "Nope, I'm going to play football instead." She still insisted but I held firm. I showed up for supper with grass stains on my knees and my Mom, being unusually psychic, determined that I hadn't been praying.

Guilt and fear are funny things. My poor mother was so ashamed of me and so afraid of what the priest would say, that she actually came at me with a wooden spoon. She got in one lick, I grabbed it, and she took off. We were both in tears. She had never before attempted to strike me. Never did again.

Many years later, my Mom also left the church for good when the priest told her he had looked at her records and found she wasn't donating enough money.

[Yahzi]

I was never in, either, even though I was a Baptist for 2 weeks when I was twelve.

I am definitely a 5.

[Yahzi]

Peskanov
I remenber clearly it's face,
It's "her face." Referring to your mother's face as "it's face" is a sign of a deeply disturbed individual who needs immediate psychiatric care.

Or a sign of a non-native English speaker. I was most relieved to see your location as "Spain."

:D

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Any advice on a good way to do this? I figure I should probably start with my spouse, but I do have a friend who I know is agnostic and was wondering if he might be a better place to start?

[Peskanov]

Yahzi;

----
It's "her face." Referring to your mother's face as "it's face" is a sign of a deeply disturbed individual who needs immediate psychiatric care.

Or a sign of a non-native English speaker. I was most relieved to see your location as "Spain."
----

Why not both, disturbed and non-native? :D
Well, I find flattering that you had to check the location... This means my english is improving!


A_Feeble_Mind:
I don't know how to answer you...We have not much details about your life. Just having a different opinion is confrontational in some spheres.
I believe you should think about what do you expect from the people that shares your life. Do you want them to be less strict with their beliefs? Do you want them to change their beliefs?
If you find, as I did, that some are not able to revise their beliefs, why bother?
Let the youth do the task; they are here to be confrontational! Let them get the duty! :D

[a fantoche de meia]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind
Any advice on a good way to do this? I figure I should probably start with my spouse, but I do have a friend who I know is agnostic and was wondering if he might be a better place to start?
What is your purpose? Letting your agnostic friend know might give you someone to talk things over with, but if your eventual purpose is to tell your spouse, other contacts are irrelevant.

Perhaps start with specific issues, such as this article on Biblical sentencing, http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=20209, or the frequent apparition of the Virgin Mary in fence posts and such. We have no idea what your spouse believes or how he/she will react.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind
Any advice on a good way to do this? I figure I should probably start with my spouse, but I do have a friend who I know is agnostic and was wondering if he might be a better place to start?

Is your spouse open-minded or eaten up with Jeebus?

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind
Any advice on a good way to do this? I figure I should probably start with my spouse, but I do have a friend who I know is agnostic and was wondering if he might be a better place to start?
So, you're Degree 1, which according to the article means:

"Completely closeted. Not even your spouse knows. You tell everyone you're a believer, and you may even attend church services to convince those around you. You're living a lie, terrified that someone may learn the truth.

If you fit into this category something must change in the near term. Your spouse, who loves and trusts you for who you are, needs and has the right to know."

Are you seriously saying that your spouse (that's like a wife, right?), the person you are theoretically soulmates with, doesn't know that you have no religious leanings? Frankly, I find that to be pretty disturbing, and as the article says, you're living a lie. My advice is simply to stop lying to the person you're supposed to be in love with.

[Victor Danilchenko]

heh. I am 4.5 -- totally open about atheism, but don't make a point to inform people about it unless the subject comes up. i do have an "Evolve" fish on my car (the fish with legs and a wrench).

My most disturbing experience with xianity was when my mother came home from a new church she joined, and declared that I must be possessed by the devil, because I refused to convert. Bleargh. that was outrigtht disgusting.

[Elaborate]

A_Feeble_Mind

The Secular Web (http://www.infidels.org) has in it's forums 10 pages of coming out stories (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35947) from atheists.

Personally, I fall into category 4; I'm open about my atheism, but I don't tell people I barely know unless the subject comes up.

I was raised a Methodist, and my deconversion was slow and quiet, involving a lot of research online. I told my parents about a year ago that I'm a atheist, and they took it fairly well, saying that they didn't care as long as I was a good person. Recently I've been able to tell that my lack of belief bothers my dad, because he tends to drop small hints around the house.

[Kilted_Canuck]

I'd say I'm about 4.5 also. I tell people whenever religion comes up, but I'm not 'in their face about it'. I prefer that no one preached religion, and everyone was free to make their own choice like I was.(my parents raised me as a non-theist, and religion only came up once or twice). What really makes me mad is when people attack each other for belief. I've even defended a JW once in my class when she was being attacked for her beliefs.

[Whoracle]

I'm a 3-4. Some people know, most don't. My mom does, my dad doesn't, then again I hardly ever talk to him about anything. My best friend does, but he's an athiest too. As for telling others, I never volunteer that info. If it comes up I'll size up who it is to determine if it's "safe" to go ahead and tell them. But I rarely do unless I have some sort of comfort level with the person. Sometimes I will say something though if I'm feeling argumentative.

[triadboy]

I don't announce it, but I love to debate xians about their faith. (Is this sick?) My wife was an atheist before me. (Thank God!) I ignored religion before I saw the light. I couldn't imagine being married to a theist.

[TylerD]

I fit into category 4, I'm very much an avowed atheist. However, I don't exactly have it on the top of my "things to tell people I meet" list. Whenever the subject comes up, I'm sure to be open about my atheism. Almost all of my family and friends know, the only ones who don't are the ones who have never bothered to ask.

[Upchurch]

Like many gay men I know, I'm "out" as an atheist (and really I'm a very weak atheist) at different levels with different groups. My fiancee knows exactly where I stand, for instance, but nobody I work with knows because, frankly, it simply doesn't come up. The circle of friends where we talk about deep matters know kinda where I stand, but the circle of friends where we watch movies and play games don't know.

[EdipisReks]

i'm somewhere between a 4 and a 5.

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Originally posted by Elaborate
A_Feeble_Mind

The Secular Web (http://www.infidels.org) has in it's forums 10 pages of coming out stories (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35947) from atheists.

Personally, I fall into category 4; I'm open about my atheism, but I don't tell people I barely know unless the subject comes up.

I was raised a Methodist, and my deconversion was slow and quiet, involving a lot of research online. I told my parents about a year ago that I'm a atheist, and they took it fairly well, saying that they didn't care as long as I was a good person. Recently I've been able to tell that my lack of belief bothers my dad, because he tends to drop small hints around the house.

Thanks! That is a great resource that I had not seen before.

Iconoclast: I am not lying to her; we are simply not discussing it. If we were to have a discussion regarding this, I would not lie about my disbelief. The problem is, I am uncertain about how I should bring up this topic.

Anyway, I have about 6 more pages I'd like to read from Elaborate's link. Maybe I'll see some additional examples there.

[Bentspoon]

I am a 4 for sure. I have been an atheist for so long and I am at the age where I just don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks.

I am 51 now and I started to question my Catholic upbringing at about 7 or 8. Communion did it for me. I couldn't get a decent explanation for what we were doing and my parent's never prepared me. It may not have been my first communion but the first I remember - I heard the words and I saw the chalice and the wafers - I really truly thought that human flesh was on the plate and people were drinking blood. To my relief it wasn't. But I could not get a decent explanation from anyone much less my parents.

I decided then and there that it was a crazy thing. We left town and the church (father was in the service) and was stationed in NE without access to a church. At 10 I had a good singing voice and a Protestant friend convinced me to join their choir. So I got a good dose of Protestantism also. At the same time I was really getting into archaeology - a life long interest. Inherent with this interest is knowledge of cultural belief systems of the past. That clinched it for me. I could not define a difference between the mythology of Babylonia and Christian mythology as far as credibility. In fact, many of the same myths are told - I came to realize, for example, that the Genesis myth is a Babylonian story modified to one god.

I was a true atheist then and there. Once I recognized that this was a mythology just like many others - that there is no difference in credibility, I had no other logical stance than to admit to myself that there really is no god and the only reason I believed it was because my parents told me to.

I have never been blatant about it. However if asked or the conversation comes up I don't hesitate to let people know where I stand. I lost a date, and two bass players over it in my life.

These Christians could not even play music with me

Ohhh, I know - they were not true Christians

On the other hand, I have played in a Christian band and they knew about me - didn't matter - go figure

ohhhh, I know - they were not true Christians

I think above all I try to be sensitive - but the minute I detect self righteousness and I start hearing about what I should do to save myself - or (TABOO) the moral ticket (/TABOO) - well - I get a little vocal and start using words such as ridiculous and mindless.

I cannot stand that self righteous attitude and I will raise the stakes.

Bentspoon

[jimlintott]

This is very interesting stuff. I'm about a 4.5. I usually test people individually for their tolerance of the non-supernatural. If they are deeply religous I give them their space. I prefer to judge individuals on what they do rather than what they say they believe. I do encounter many closet atheists. I think that when they realise that I won't get upset if they don't believe in god they open up about it.

I have known some very fine people who are quite religous. I do feel an obligation to warn them that I am atheist and that they might be jeopardising their path to heaven if they befriend me.

I just have to share this as its funny. On several occasions I have run into nuns. Nuns tend to introduce themselves as Sister so and so. To which I always reply "Sister. That's an odd name." While I am standing there with a straight face, inside I'm rolling on the floor laughing. They usually laugh at it. Most nuns are pretty nice people. I will not call a priest Father and that sometimes upsets people. Most priests or ministers that I have met have been major jerks.

[lloth]

I'd say that I am a 4-5 also. I'm not in constant battle with xians that I meet, but I will speak my mind in religious discussions. I don't wear my atheism on my sleeve, but I'm also not actively hiding it from anyone. There are those in my life that I simply don't discuss it with, but that has more to do with their comfort than my own.

My coming out story- well the hubby and I have ALWAYS been talkative toward one another so we basically knew where we both stood on the subject of religion (I was xian when we met, but obviously I journeyed from that stance). I spoke fairly openly with my coworkers (none of which at the time were anything BUT xians), but as for family I had actually wanted to sheild them from any guilty feelings they might feel. In other words I was pretty cowardly and didn't trust them. My grandma tried to get my youngest son to go to church one morning (we were visiting from out of town so we were staying at her place), and he politely refused. Then she asked him a series of questions that finally gave him no choice but to tell her that he didn't believe in god. She of course took me aside, but ultimately realised that she really couldn't interfere with our decision. From there it spread through the grapevine and I found out that my sis was questioning her beliefs and a few years later my mom ended up questioning hers! This is a pleasant and recent suprise :)

My kids (seven and eight) have decided to be "ones (maybe twos)" for the time being. Its hard to be different in grade school, and so they reserve their religious discussion for home. They don't necessarily lie about it, but they certainly avoid the whole thing.

A Feeble Mind:
Perhaps a way to start your coming out would be to begin with skeptical discussions and philosophy so that it seems like a journey to her when you finally do come out as opposed to an immediate change. Your journey could have taken a few years, but her knowledge of it is nonexistent. This way it will soften her up, and she will at least be expecting it. Maybe even getting a subscription to skeptical inquirer or skeptic's magazine, and picking out certain articles to talk about.

Do you guys have children? Thinking about it? This should definitely be in the open before children come into play. She likely wants to bring them up in her religion, and how will she answer questions about your non-belief to them without prior warning? How will you answer key questions they pose to you? (where does god live, why do bad things happen to true believers, is it really blood or just symbolism, evolution is just a theory etc) This will likely be a concern to her, and something you need to work out before they come up. Coming out will help your planning. Anyway, this is just a mom speaking from a mom's POV. Good luck with your coming out!

[BillyTK]

I was raised a catholic, so belief in god was never an issue anyway *grins evilly*

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind
Any advice on a good way to do this? I figure I should probably start with my spouse, but I do have a friend who I know is agnostic and was wondering if he might be a better place to start?

I would suggest not laying " I don't believe there is a God ', on your spouse, and proceeding from there.

She has reasons for holding on to her belief system. Get her to talk about those reasons, and give her something to counter those reasons with, such as the inconsistencies in the Bible, regarding the nature of God.