A question for billiefan2000 [Archive]

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Pahansiri

26th May 2003, 09:11 AM

Billiefan my friend may I ask a question, in the past I as others have had a hard time getting you to respond to a logical respectful conversation. I am sorry for the ones who attack you here as I am sorry you attack others but as you know I do not attack and seek only respectful logical conversation I hope this invitation can be a start for you.

The question.

I am not judging your belief in this event the “rapture” but ask the following. You often ask people what will you do what the rapture happens and we ( Christians) are all gone/

As we have seen and I have attempted to discuss with you, you and many who believe as you do seem to judge everyone as to who is and who is not a “real” Christian. Allow me to present some facts as to the worlds population.

The worlds population shows roughly 26%-33% let us say 30% of the pop being some form or Christian leaving 70 % not in anyway Christian ie. Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist. Atheist etc. Let us these numbers.

1. Christianity: 2 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism: 900 million
4. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
5. Buddhism: 360 million
6. Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
7. primal-indigenous: 150 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 14 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 6 million
14. Jainism: 4 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 3 million
17. Tenrikyo: 2.4 million
18. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
19. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
20. Rastafarianism: 700 thousand
21. Scientology: 600 thousand
22. Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

Let us remove all other peoples non Christian in some form. That leaves a pool of 2 billion who will be as you say taken away. But as we know you do not believe that 2 billion are all “real” Christians. Let us look into this 2 billion and remove who you consider are NOT “ Real” Christians and so will not be taken away.

2 billion – ( this is rough and from known statistics)

Catholic 1,050,000,000
Orthodox/Eastern Christian 240,000,000
African indigenous sects (AICs) 110,000,000
Pentecostal 105,000,000
Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United 75,000,000
Anglican 73,000,000
Baptist 70,000,000
Methodist 70,000,000
Lutheran 64,000,000
Jehovah's Witnesses 14,800,000
Adventist 12,000,000
Latter Day Saints 11,500,000
Apostolic/New Apostolic 10,000,000
Stone-Campbell ("Restoration Movement") 5,400,000
New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.) 1,500,000
Brethren (incl. Plymouth) 1,500,000
Mennonite 1,250,000
Friends (Quakers) 300,000
There are well over 35,000 Christian sects I believe they have been includes in these groupings.

Lets remove right off the top ones I know you believe are NOT “real” Christians.

The largest group and they make over ½ of all Christians the Catholics. I know you and many who believe as you do feel they are the anti Christ, the whore of Babylon, Mary worshipers. So that is 1,050,000,000 out of this event and will be staying.

Orthodox/Eastern Christian the 2nd largest group at 240,000,000 much the same feeling on your part as to Catholics.

African indigenous sects (AICs) 110,000,000 I believe and I may be wrong clearly off your belief list.

Methodist 70,000,000 I know Pat Robertson hates so I must guess you do also.

"You say you're supposed to be nice to the
Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the
Methodists and this, that, and the other thing.
Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of
the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold
false opinions but I don't have to be nice to
them."--Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, January
14, 1991

Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United 75,000,000 As we see from that statement are out.

Lutheran 64,000,000 I assume for sure out
Jehovah's Witnesses 14,800,000 I KNOW for sure out
Adventist 12,000,000 I KNOW for sure out
Latter Day Saints 11,500,000 I KNOW for sure out
Apostolic/New Apostolic 10,000,000 I assume for sure out
Stone-Campbell ("Restoration Movement") 5,400,000 I assume for sure out
New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.) 1,500,000 I assume for sure out
Brethren (incl. Plymouth) 1,500,000 I assume for sure out
Mennonite 1,250,000 I assume for sure out
Friends (Quakers) 300,000 I assume for sure out.

That leaves

Pentecostal 105,000,000
Anglican 73,000,000
Baptist 70,000,000

I believe for sure only the Baptist you would find safe but can not say for sure about the Anglican and Pentecostal but will leaves them in the going group for now.

After some simple math we see from a starting pool of 2 billion we subtract

The ”in or going” group shows 248,000,000
and the ”out and not REAL Christian” shows 248,000,000 1,667,250,000

I was very generous because I was not sure about Anglican, but let us say there now in the going group the 248,000,000 .

Now of this group we have people you say false leaders within your own group, you have posted many threads about these people in your ranks. So let us say these people lost because of these leaders hiding in your ranks numbers ¼ of the number.

Then you will agree in the remaining number is people saying they are in this group but are very bad sinners
NOTE: I know I have shown in several post you have sinned in many ways mainly telling lies and bearing false witness and speaking with a sharp tongue and calling others fools

Matt. 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.

If Anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his sharp tongue but deceives his own heart, this ones religion is useless~ JAMES 1:26

But I will say for the sake of argument you are still in the “in or real” Christian group. Back to my point, there will be sinner in this remaining group and they will not be able to go so let us say ¼ of the remaining are and that I would believe is generous.

That would leave 124,000,000.

Now when we add all peoples back in the remaining 6 billion we find that 124,000,000 out of 6 billion is a tiny 5 of the worlds population

From starvation alone 24,000 die every single day in 2 months from starvation alone more people leave this world by far.

The question to you is 2 fold.

1- When this event were to happen would God consider it a good piece of work he had done, so few made the cut?
2- When this event were to happen would the rest of us even notice?

I mean no disrespect and use only logic and facts to make my point. My friend live each day with the joy of life, you have it very well compared to so many. Be happy love and help others and be free of your hate of all not as you see not like you.

Dancing David

26th May 2003, 10:48 AM

The myth contradicts the belief.
A. The Pentecost was the second coming and therefore the ruture has occured.
B. Yeshua said the number of the kngdom of heaven was 44,000, soooo there are a lot of people who won't get in.

Peace

Pahansiri

26th May 2003, 11:12 AM

Actualy Dancing Dave that is REVELATION 14:4...7. and it is The Hundred 44,000 ( 144000) and they are VIRGINS, and only men, men not defiled by women.

Revelation 14:4 " These are they which were not defiled with woman; For they are virgins..."

EdwardG

26th May 2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Billiefan my friend may I ask a question, [...]

Whether Billiefan answers or not I would like to thank Pahansiri for bringing these very interesting statistics together.

One small request though - I'd greatly appreciate source references if you have them.

triadboy

26th May 2003, 11:41 AM

justsaygnosis

26th May 2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by triadboy

So you're saying only computer geeks and nerds are getting into heaven?! Damn, I should have studied more.

There's a lot of computer geeks and nerds with babilicious wives.
As one of my co-worker's puts it,
"You can be butt ugly with a penis the size of a kiddie straw, if you got bucks, you got babes."

triadboy

26th May 2003, 08:15 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by justsaygnosis
As one of my co-worker's puts it,
"You can be butt ugly with a penis the size of a kiddie straw, if you got bucks, you got babes."

Well Mr. Butt-Ugly Kiddie-straw penis is not going to heaven then.

Upchurch

26th May 2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Actualy Dancing Dave that is REVELATION 14:4...7. and it is The Hundred 44,000 ( 144000) and they are VIRGINS, and only men, men not defiled by women.

Revelation 14:4 " These are they which were not defiled with woman; For they are virgins..." If all numbers are correct, it seems natural that the 144,000 would be pulled from the applicable 124,000,000 true Christians, or about 0.1% of the possible candidates. That means that only 1 in 1,000 true Christians will be pulled from the mix during the rapture, presumably the male virgins. Assuming that the male/female ration is approximately 1:1, that means 1 in 500 male true Christians will be taken. Further assuming that there is no other criteria involved in the selection process and that young boys don't count as "virgin men", we can assume that only 1 in 500 true Christian men are virgins.

Seems like being a Christian had more perks than I was fully aware of...

edited to add:
No. I screwed that up. It'd still be 1 in 1,000 true Christian males that get "raptured" away, since females are not applicable true Christians as they can never be male virgins. My bad.

billiefan2000

27th May 2003, 10:39 AM

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons dont count as Christians cause they dont believe Jesus Christ is the son of GOD and dont believe what JOHN 14:2 says in the bible,so to call them Christian Groups is a Insult.

As for the 2 Billion Christians myth,I have a question:

Do you honestly believe everyone who calls themself a Christian is a Christian.

Plus if there are 2 Billion Christians:

1.How come so many are so Lukewarm and Liberal and seem to be Christian in name only.

Pahansiri

27th May 2003, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons dont count as Christians cause they dont believe Jesus Christ is the son of GOD and dont believe what JOHN 14:2 says in the bible,so to call them Christian Groups is a Insult.

As for the 2 Billion Christians myth,I have a question:

Do you honestly believe everyone who calls themself a Christian is a Christian.

Plus if there are 2 Billion Christians:

1.How come so many are so Lukewarm and Liberal and seem to be Christian in name only.

billiefan2000 my friend you have as you so often do either just could not understand what is written or refused to be honest and answer. This “response” shows several things 10 you do not really understand what you believe in or perhaps simply are not a “real” Christian so can not defend what you believe. 2- It also helps prove my point that you and people who share your belief have placed yourself as the judges of who are and who are not Real Christian. If you like I help you understand the many passages in your Bible that strongly condemns this.

Why do you ignore post to you? A mature thinking adult that really believed what they say would at least make an effort to defend what they say is truth and be honest in responding. May I from your actions surmise all “real” Christians are not honest, hate filled, hypocrites and liars?

May I ask one other thing ( not really expecting a logical response) I respect you believe Teal Redmann is the BEST actress in the world but should you being a “Real” Christian so love an actress that is in what is a show that does not demonstrate what you say are “real” Christian morals. I speak of her work in MTV’s Undressed.

hgc

27th May 2003, 10:55 AM

Pahansiri

27th May 2003, 11:06 AM

billiefan2000 also allow me to help you learn about the other beliefs you attack with 2 sins, 1- the telling of lies and 2- bearing false witness. These are both sins you do over and over my friend.

You say Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons dont count as Christians cause they dont believe Jesus Christ is the son of GOD and dont believe what JOHN 14:2 says in the bible,so to call them Christian Groups is a Insult.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is the created Son of God. They do not believe in the Trinity but DO believe Jesus is the created Son of God.

Keep in mind that Jesus himself said that he is "God's Son" and that his "Father sent him forth." (John 10:36; 6:57) Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God in indeed greater than Jesus. Remember Jesus himself who said, "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28; 8:28) Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus is equal to his Father, or part of a Trinity. Rather, they believe that he was created by God and is under His authority. (Collossians 1:15; 1 Corinthians 11:3)

You owe them an apology and truth is as to the Bible and this point they are right, perhaps you should join them.

As to Mormons the following is from a Morman site
What Do Mormons Believe: The Nature of Jesus Christ
The Mormon church views Jesus and Satan, like the rest of us, as spirit brothers and sons of God. Satan and Jesus "fought" for the privilege of taking on human flesh in order to become the redeemer of the world. Jesus won the contest, and the spirit of Jesus was given a body through Mary. The character and life of Jesus is attainable by anyone who performs at such a righteous level. The Christian church teaches that Jesus Christ has existed eternally as the Son of God, the second "person" of the Trinity. Jesus took on human flesh about 2000 years ago and was born into the world through the virgin Mary. He was crucified on a Roman cross for our sins, and rose from the dead three days later to establish His deity.

I must ask would it not be more of an insult to “real” Christians to have you call yourself one with these lies and bearing of false witness you do?

Peter Jenkins

27th May 2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons dont count as Christians cause they dont believe Jesus Christ is the son of GOD and dont believe what JOHN 14:2 says in the bible,so to call them Christian Groups is a Insult.

As for the 2 Billion Christians myth,I have a question:

Do you honestly believe everyone who calls themself a Christian is a Christian.

Plus if there are 2 Billion Christians:

1.How come so many are so Lukewarm and Liberal and seem to be Christian in name only.

Mormons believe hat everyone was a spirit child of God (Elohim). Jesus was the eldest, the most obedient and the most perfect. he was concieved by Mary through some sort of interaction by God (actually the modern church does not like to go into details about this). In the past, there have been various 'theories' put forward by different members of the church heirarchy.
I would suggest that every Mormon would agree with the general statement that 'Jesus is a literal, as well as a spiritual, son of God'.

John 14:2 - In my Fathers house are many mansions...........I go to prepare a place for you.

Mormons believe that there are 'three degrees of glory' i.e. three seperate, graded, heavens, rather than one as in traditional Christianity. This verse is just as applicable to Mormon thinking as to traditional Christian thinking,

Honestly, BF, I can give you a hundred reasons why you shouldn't believe in Mormonism, But I find it curious that you choose to use these pieces of erroneous propognda to support your case.

Peter

billiefan2000

27th May 2003, 02:10 PM

Islam also believes Jesus Christ is a Prophet from GOD,does that mean we should automatically count everyone in Islam as a Christian?

It maybe true that some Mormons and Jehovah's Witness believe Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD,but:

Do they believe by having a Personal Relationship with him and accepting him into their lives is the only way that they will get to Heaven.

I dont think so.

Pahansiri,I will also drop the Teal Redmann signature if you drop the subject. No one is perfect,but hey,she is a great actress in my opinion,and whether she is the best actress or not is my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion or is that something you have a problem with,is me having a opinion.

HGC,anyone who calls themself a Christian and dont believe Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD,or believes that you can sin all you want and not living a clean life and you somehow still saved
is a Liberal or Lukewarm Christian.

Also,look at most of the folks on TBN if you want to see what a Lukewarm Christian is.

Upchurch

27th May 2003, 02:14 PM

So, billie, what would you consider to be the number of true Christians from which the 144,000 virgin men will be pulled?

Skeptical Greg

27th May 2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by billiefan2000

Also,look at most of the folks on TBN if you want to see what a Lukewarm Christian is.

I'm curious, as to where you get your credentials to judge other people?

Pahansiri

27th May 2003, 02:42 PM

Islam also believes Jesus Christ is a Prophet from GOD,does that mean we should automatically count everyone in Islam as a Christian?

billiefan2000 my friend you just are not getting my point. I do not judge anyone as to who is a “real” Christian or Muslim or my belief Buddhist or Hindu or Atheist or baseball player or clown. This is what you are doing and it seems very silly and harmful also something your Bible tells you not to do.

The point of my first post is one you have avoided and by your post reinforced, I asked you how will anyone notice if this even did happen as so few people would be taken. Your post what there of them reinforces my position you and people ( who have the right to believe as they will) who believe as you do all point at each other and say the other is not a “real” Christian.

You have placed yourself in the “real Christian” category yet as I am others point out you break many rules of your Bible. Remember along with the many passages I have already posted on the topic the words “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.

You have been throwing many many stones perhaps only out numbered by your sins, i.e. telling lies and bearing false witness against others.

It maybe true that some Mormons and Jehovah's Witness believe Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD,but:

No, you said they did not, now you say well some, what I posted was the teachings of the belief not a few persons. You were wrong and unfair.

Pahansiri,I will also drop the Teal Redmann signature if you drop the subject. No one is perfect,but hey,she is a great actress in my opinion,and whether she is the best actress or not is my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion or is that something you have a problem with,is me having a opinion.

My friend please read what others write then you will not speak untruths about them.

I said May I ask one other thing ( not really expecting a logical response) I respect you believe Teal Redmann is the BEST actress in the world but should you being a “Real” Christian so love an actress that is in what is a show that does not demonstrate what you say are “real” Christian morals. I speak of her work in MTV’s Undressed.

I do not care or judge the beliefs or likes of others, that is what YOU have and are doing, can you not see this? It is you that has a problem with people not thinking like you.

Finella

27th May 2003, 06:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pahansiri
I believe for sure only the Baptist you would find safe but can not say for sure about the Anglican and Pentecostal but will leaves them in the going group for now.

Whoohoo! I'm in the "going group"!! See y'all!!

Actually, Pahansiri, we Episcopalians fall under the Anglican umbrella -- so the Anglicans usually get swept up in the Anti-Christ label, too.. but don't tell billiefan! I want to go to heaven! ;)

Pahansiri

28th May 2003, 08:28 AM

NEWS FLASH: After conferring with billiefan2000 God has chosen the vehicle or mode of transportation that would be adequate in size to transport all Real Christians to heaven at the outset or the rapture.

http://www.scooter.org/li-3.jpg http://www.scooter.org/li-2.jpg

Finella my new friend, billiefan2000 has said there is no room for you, sorry:(

Finella

28th May 2003, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by Pahansiri
NEWS FLASH: After conferring with billiefan2000 God has chosen the vehicle or mode of transportation that would be adequate in size to transport all Real Christians to heaven at the outset or the rapture.

http://www.scooter.org/li-3.jpg http://www.scooter.org/li-2.jpg

Finella my new friend, billiefan2000 has said there is no room for you, sorry:(

Hey, I'm only five feet tall, I can fit on the back fender thingy there.... really.... honest....

:D

Pahansiri

29th May 2003, 04:54 AM

Greetings Finella.. I am sure you could but that is not for me to decide, I am not even Christian and for sure billiefan2000 would not say a “real” one if I was. billiefan2000 will look at your case as he it seems is the being his God has chooses to judge who and who is not a “real” Christian.

I am sure you are a good and loving being but I have been told in the past by some Christian friends there are many good and loving beings in hell, perhaps we can do lunch there. I will have my people call your people.