The essential closed loop

[allanb]

In another thread, EGarrett has suggested a "plea" to religious people. It's well written and I wish him luck. However, I don't think it's going to get far. In my experience, no matter how well you express the rational view, in the end you always come up against the fundamental argument:

(a) I know that God exists because the Bible says so.
(b) I know the Bible is true because it is the word of God.

When you are debating the existence of God, I fear that such questions as the origins of the universe, the evolution of species, the basis of morality, the possibility of an afterlife, etc, etc, are really only minor details to people who think like that.

I'm thinking of Christianity, of course, but I think each religion has its version of the same fallacy. "God must exist, because his existence was revealed to somebody."

[Bruno Putzeys]

It might help to keep in mind that this is not so much an "argument" as a "rationalisation" (in the sense of cognitive dissonance reduction). When people resort to this line of thought, it is no longer to convince you (the skeptic), but to reduce the heightened internal conflict caused by your probing. The brain is not a rigorous logical engine so the standard of logical consistency it requires for stress reduction is not very high. I doubt if deconstructing this circular reasoning will improve communication.

[Zep]

Or they are simply bloody lazy, and refuse to get out of that comfy rut.

Sometimes you wonder why some people even need wrinkles in their brain...

[Meffy]

Well put, Bruno. Howdy.

[Apathia]

I like to give my loop a half twist before closing it.

[Tricky]

Or they are simply bloody lazy, and refuse to get out of that comfy rut. One of the Christian bumper stickers I've seen recently that illustrates this perfectly goes like this:

"The Bible said it. I believe it. That settles it."

Why don't they just say "I am absolutely incapable of thinking for myself."

Sometimes you wonder why some people even need wrinkles in their brain...LOL. As my biology teacher used to say, "Son, there ain't nothin' in your head but a smooth gray ball."

I like to give my loop a half twist before closing it.You do knot.

[Mojo]

In another thread, EGarrett has suggested a "plea" to religious people. It's well written and I wish him luck. However, I don't think it's going to get far. In my experience, no matter how well you express the rational view, in the end you always come up against the fundamental argument:

(a) I know that God exists because the Bible says so.
(b) I know the Bible is true because it is the word of God.There's a shorter version:

I know the Bible is the word of God because the Bible says so.

Actually, I've most recently seen this argument applied to the Koran.