Prayer doesn't work? Duh.

[advancedatheist]

I think Marshall Brain put this together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0rFZIqo8A

But I wonder if Brain realized that his stylized Lucky Horseshoe looks like an upside-down capital Greek letter omega, a symbol for Jesus based on at least three verses in Revelation.

[RandFan]

I think Marshall Brain put this together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0rFZIqo8A

But I wonder if Brain realized that his stylized Lucky Horseshoe looks like an upside-down capital Greek letter omega, a symbol for Jesus based on at least three verses in Revelation.Cool, I posted this in another thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=59828)which was inspired by a thread whose subject is the website for this video http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/. I think the video deserves its own thread.

[I'll_buy_that]

He says that this is proof that god doesn't exist. but it could be that god just doesn't screw with out lives.

2 possibilities
- god doesn't answer prayers
- god doesn't exist

either way, praying doesn't accomplish much.

[RandFan]

He says that this is proof that god doesn't exist. but it could be that god just doesn't screw with out lives.

2 possibilities
- god doesn't answer prayers
- god doesn't exist

either way, praying doesn't accomplish much. Agreed, based on the proof presented I could be a Diest. I'm not but this does not lead me to believe that there is no God.

[FireGarden]

2 possibilities
- god doesn't answer prayers
- god doesn't exist

either way, praying doesn't accomplish much.

Except that I prayed that praying wouldn't work. So my prayer was answered. (With a yes)

[kittynh]

I wonder though if it comforts the one doing the praying? Sort of a meditation for them.

[RandFan]

I wonder though if it comforts the one doing the praying? Sort of a meditation for them.Absolutely. Prayer was a very important part of my life and a source of comfort for some very difficult situations. I think it can be a crutch however and I think healthy human interaction can be just as helpful.

I have a friend who is atheist and a therapist. I asked her if she dicouraged prayer. She said no. Prayer can be a coping mechanism.

[Bruno Putzeys]

Listening to music is a good coping mechanism too. Both are parasitic behaviour of normal brains. At least the latter doesn't make any ridiculous claims, and it's much more pleasant.

[MichelQC]

Absolutely. Prayer was a very important part of my life and a source of comfort for some very difficult situations. I think it can be a crutch however and I think healthy human interaction can be just as helpful.

I have a friend who is atheist and a therapist. I asked her if she dicouraged prayer. She said no. Prayer can be a coping mechanism.

Coping by deluding oneself? I fail to see the benefit...

[RandFan]

Coping by deluding oneself? I fail to see the benefit...Damn, I'm arguing that prayer is irrational in one thread and a valid coping mechanism in the other. Leave it to me.

For many prayer can be comforting. It was for me. For many prayer gives hope. It did for me. These things are coping mechanisms.

Self delusions? Belief, even irrational belief can be a very powerful force. I wouldn't personally recommend it as a mater of course but if a person is already a believer then I wouldn't discourage it. I would encourage them to do what brings them comfort and hope. If that is taking a trip to the beach to watch the sunset then so be it. If it is prayer, so be it. I couldn't honestly think of a more arrogant thing for a therapist to do than to get in a debate with a patient about theology simply to mollify the ego or self righteous beliefs of the therapist. If the patient doesn't raise a question about the existence of God then let them have their delusion.

I'm not so arrogant as to suppose that everyone can only find hope, comfort, happiness or contentment my way. I can't say that I'm more happy or more content than any of my theistic friends. I only think that my way is the more rational way, the more grounded in reality way. I will leave the subjective up to the individual.

[RandFan]

Listening to music is a good coping mechanism too. Both are parasitic behaviour of normal brains. At least the latter doesn't make any ridiculous claims, and it's much more pleasant.Isn't that a subjective claim? I loved much of my religion. I missed it terribly when I left. I was quite emotional. I loved the camaraderie and support of my church. Like anything else it had both negative and positive aspects. I honestly did not leave because the negatives were greater than the positives. I left because I couldn't live a lie.

Also, why can't people have multiple coping mechanisms? I didn't stop listening to music when I was going to church and my interest in music didn't increase when I left. My understanding is that the more coping mechanisms the better. So why do you think that you have to have one to the exclusion of the other?

[Tricky]

Damn, I'm arguing that prayer is irrational in one thread and a valid coping mechanism in the other. Leave it to me.
You must be getting old.

Happy birthday, you old waffler.:D

[MichelQC]

Damn, I'm arguing that prayer is irrational in one thread and a valid coping mechanism in the other. Leave it to me.

For many prayer can be comforting. It was for me. For many prayer gives hope. It did for me. These things are coping mechanisms.

Self delusions? Belief, even irrational belief can be a very powerful force. I wouldn't personally recommend it as a mater of course but if a person is already a believer then I wouldn't discourage it. I would encourage them to do what brings them comfort and hope. If that is taking a trip to the beach to watch the sunset then so be it. If it is prayer, so be it. I couldn't honestly think of a more arrogant thing for a therapist to do than to get in a debate with a patient about theology simply to mollify the ego or self righteous beliefs of the therapist. If the patient doesn't raise a question about the existence of God then let them have their delusion.

I'm not so arrogant as to suppose that everyone can only find hope, comfort, happiness or contentment my way. I can't say that I'm more happy or more content than any of my theistic friends. I only think that my way is the more rational way, the more grounded in reality way. I will leave the subjective up to the individual.

Just so you know, I understand your point and it is a valid one. I guess it depends on your frame of mind and how deluded (sorry ... religious) the prayor is. I can picture the activity of praying as being a good way to externalize your problems and perhaps this is what helps you cope with them. On the other hand for a very religious person who actually believe in the alpha-male-in-the-sky thing it might also be a cop out to avoid taking personnal responsibility for his life.

[grayman]

Since giving up on believing in the unbelievable, I have found that just relaxing, closing my eyes, and trying not to think of anything in particular produces the same results as any prayer I ever offered.

Or maybe my belief was weak and/or I wasn't praying hard enough.

:rolleyes: