Doctors maim beggars - both profit?

[MrMonty]

Doctors offer to maim beggars (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyid=2006-08-01T160910Z_01_DEL96495_RTRUKOC_0_US-INDIA-BEGGARS.xml&src=rss)

Three Indian doctors caught on camera apparently agreeing to amputate the healthy limbs of beggars... asking for 10,000 rupees (about $215) to amputate a lower leg, leaving a stump that may draw sympathy -- and a few rupees -- from passersby

"Believe me if there are two beggars in front of you and one of them is lame, you will give the money to the lame beggar," the station recorded him as saying in Hindi.

This is just sickening. I can't figure out who I should find more deplorable, the doctors or the beggars. Then again, it's also sad in the sense that the beggars see this as a means to an end.

Any licensed physicians here? My wife is just an LMT (licensed massage therapist), has to be state certified here in OH. She gets a quarterly pamphlet, over 100 fully licensed, or studying to be licensed, physicians who've had their licenses temporarily suspended or permanently revoked. Typical descriptions include sexual imposition with a patient, cociane use, lots of alcohol problems, marijuana, mental illness, and using their position for drug trafficing or personal use. Entertaining and yet scary at the same time.

Found the pamphlet online. (http://med.ohio.gov/pdf/Newsletters/Summer2006.pdf) Surprisingly few insurance frauds. Fun reading like: Medical license permanently revoked based on doctor’s impairment of ability to practice according to acceptable and prevailing standards of care and violation of conditions of limitation imposed on doctor’s license by 5/19/05 consent agreement due to relapse on cocaine and alcohol.

For Ohio, you can see if your doctor's ever been in trouble. (https://license.ohio.gov/lookup/default.asp)

Monty

[JamesDillon]

Any licensed physicians here? My wife is just an LMT (licensed massage therapist), has to be state certified here in OH. She gets a quarterly pamphlet, over 100 fully licensed, or studying to be licensed, physicians who've had their licenses temporarily suspended or permanently revoked. Typical descriptions include sexual imposition with a patient, cociane use, lots of alcohol problems, marijuana, mental illness, and using their position for drug trafficing or personal use. Entertaining and yet scary at the same time.
Doctors are human beings, and they're subject to human failings. I don't see how you can compare a substance abuse problem to a willingness to amputate limbs for profit. In the former case, while the physician's license should probably be suspended for safety reasons, he or she also deserves a degree of sympathy. Not so much in the latter.

[Beerina]

Typical descriptions include sexual imposition with a patient

You ever notice you can never find such a doctor when you want, er, need one? Why can't I wake up out of a hazy stupor in the dentist's office, to see her slowly buttoning back up her clothing? Why can't I have a psychiatrist convince me that relations with her would really help me out, such that she trashes my psyche? Why can't I be that guy with the good looking female boss who demands I service her in order to get a raise?

[MrMonty]

Doctors are human beings, and they're subject to human failings. I don't see how you can compare a substance abuse problem to a willingness to amputate limbs for profit. In the former case, while the physician's license should probably be suspended for safety reasons, he or she also deserves a degree of sympathy. Not so much in the latter.

I just gave a choice quote. 1 of about 120 this quarter, for just the state of Ohio. There are plenty of other abuses where the doctors are doing things like writing fake prescriptions to use or sell the drugs themselves. I also commented to my wife that so many were alcohol and drug abuse probably because of the stress that goes along with their job.

Of course, I understand the human failing principle. It's just that with doctors, like many scientists or police officers, people tend to hold them to much higher standards. To see their shortcomings both reminds us of the fallibility of all people as well as reminding us that nobody is above it just because of a badge or sheet of paper on their wall. I'm an engineer, so I won't forget to add them in too. Just look at Tacoma Narrows, airplane disasters, or the Big Dig.

Monty

[MrMonty]

You ever notice you can never find such a doctor when you want, er, need one? Why can't I wake up out of a hazy stupor in the dentist's office, to see her slowly buttoning back up her clothing? Why can't I have a psychiatrist convince me that relations with her would really help me out, such that she trashes my psyche? Why can't I be that guy with the good looking female boss who demands I service her in order to get a raise?

My wife was joking about the same thing. Her ENT, is a cutey and she'll be going under his knife soon. I'd think most of those cases are male doctors.

Here's another, this guy's serving our country right now. They make it sound like there's little to indicate it would affect him professionally, and he didn't involve patients. Still wouldn't want him to be my Doc.
Doctor reprimanded; probationary terms, conditions and limitations imposed for at least two years from the date upon which the doctor reenters the U.S. following his current overseas military service. Based on doctor’s admissions that he committed acts involving moral turpitude that would constitute misdemeanor offenses in Ohio by surreptitiously audiotaping or videotaping various erotic incidents involving adult females; and that assessment by the Center for Marital and Sexual Health determined that doctor had never crossed the boundaries of socialization with patients, that he has an adequate conscience to keep his conduct appropriate in the professional setting with patients, and that his mild, multifaceted form of voyeurism and moderately severe social anxiety disorder are amenable to treatment

Monty

[slingblade]

This is just sickening. I can't figure out who I should find more deplorable, the doctors or the beggars. Then again, it's also sad in the sense that the beggars see this as a means to an end.

Not knowing first-hand the actual conditions over there, I'd have to say I find the doctors more deplorable than the beggars.

The doctors at least have some education (one hopes) and make a decent living (again, one hopes).

The beggars have so little, they're willing to sell parts of themselves in order to beg more effectively.

Really sad.

[CplFerro]

I saw a photograph online a while ago of a beggar in some godforsaken place, India perhaps, or Malaysia, in which the fellow carefully maintained a fifteen inch open razor wound on his thigh in order to win pity money.

The horrors of Asia!

[TragicMonkey]

"But, doctor! What about your Hippopotamus Oath?!"

[HeavyAaron]

Are the stories about renting a child for begging true? If so, that seems to fall in this catagory.

Aaron

[Beerina]

Doctor reprimanded; probationary terms, conditions and limitations imposed for at least two years from the date upon which the doctor reenters the U.S. following his current overseas military service. Based on doctor’s admissions that he committed acts involving moral turpitude that would constitute misdemeanor offenses in Ohio by surreptitiously audiotaping or videotaping various erotic incidents involving adult females; and that assessment by the Center for Marital and Sexual Health determined that doctor had never crossed the boundaries of socialization with patients, that he has an adequate conscience to keep his conduct appropriate in the professional setting with patients, and that his mild, multifaceted form of voyeurism and moderately severe social anxiety disorder are amenable to treatment

Putting two and two together, it sounds like he secretly videotaped either women masturbating alone (hot) or girl-on-girl action (way hot), but in a situation having nothing to do with either his practice or his patients.

Meh, if a guy who kidnapped a woman and kept her alive, buried in a box for a week thirty years ago can get a doctor's license after serving his time, I say this guy is no big thang.

Whoever wrote that tidbit is a bit odd, "and that his mild, multifaceted form of voyeurism" is almost positive-sounding. "Mild"? Was he secretly recording prostitutes?

Umm, why not add "and his clever use of high technology combined with his chosen subject matter and superb execution of recordings show genuine creativity and a desire to sweat the details for quality".

[Mycroft]

I saw a photograph online a while ago of a beggar in some godforsaken place, India perhaps, or Malaysia, in which the fellow carefully maintained a fifteen inch open razor wound on his thigh in order to win pity money.

The horrors of Asia!

I saw that picture too.

Apparently in India begging is considered an honorable profession and having an "advantage" like that a very good thing. I don’t think these doctors should be judged the same as Western doctors.

[Art Vandelay]

Anyone else reminded of that scene in Life of Brian where the beggars whines about Jesus curing him?

[MrMonty]

Here in Cleveland, our beggars know that removing body parts and self mutilation aren't the fast tracks to improving their lives. What it takes is a musical instrument and a couple of hits like "Take Me Out to the Ballgame", "The Flintstones", and "Popeye the Sailor Man". Although, eerily, a couple of our "musicians" only have one leg.

Monty

[luchog]

Anyone else reminded of that scene in Life of Brian where the beggars whines about Jesus curing him?
First thing that jumped to mind when I saw the title.

Brian:
Well who cured you?

Ex-Leper:
Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business. All of a sudden, up he comes, cures me. One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood gone, not so much as a buy your leave... You're cured, mate. Bloody do-gooder.

[Rob Lister]

I saw that picture too.

Apparently in India begging is considered an honorable profession and having an "advantage" like that a very good thing. I don’t think these doctors should be judged the same as Western doctors.

Citizen of the Galaxy -- Robert H. Heinlein

[Art Vandelay]

One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood gone, not so much as a buy your leave... You're cured, mate. Bloody do-gooder.I think that it's spelled "by your leave".

[CFLarsen]

Denatsate (http://www.asylumeclectica.com/asylum/morbid/archives/morb1096.htm)

You might not want to look here (http://www.agonyagogo.com/conspiracy.htm), either...

[shecky]

I must be the only one who doesn't see a problem with this. Beggar wants a service done. Doctor provides. Where's the problem?

CNN-IBN went fishing for a story about deception and mutilation, but got one that seems to suggest a voluntary business transaction.

Is this much different from a stripper getting a breast augmentation in order to have better income prospects?

[ponderingturtle]

So in what ways should you not have control over your own body? would it be better if the beggers did it themselves?

Where do you draw the line for such ability to alter your own body, and why shouldn't a doctor be able to perform such elective surgery safely?

[MrMonty]

...and why can't they just sell a kidney for $1,000?

Monty

[HeavyAaron]

...and why can't they just sell a kidney for $1,000?

Monty

Good question, but aren't you derailing your own thread by asking? The topic of markets for organs is a rather broad and contentious one.

Aaron

[ponderingturtle]

...and why can't they just sell a kidney for $1,000?

Monty

Well I have heard of people who have a body immage of say having only one leg and want to attain their body immage, I have not heard of that with kidneys.

[MrMonty]

Good question, but aren't you derailing your own thread by asking? The topic of markets for organs is a rather broad and contentious one.

Aaron

I thought I derailed my own thread with my opening post. :) The thread can go where it wants, as long as it's talking about doctors, limbs, organs, beggars, drugs, or dastardly people, I think its fine.

Anyway, my comment was in response to shecky's post:I must be the only one who doesn't see a problem with this. Beggar wants a service done. Doctor provides. Where's the problem?

CNN-IBN went fishing for a story about deception and mutilation, but got one that seems to suggest a voluntary business transaction.

Is this much different from a stripper getting a breast augmentation in order to have better income prospects?

Where do we draw the line when it comes to someone's decision with their own body? Emotionally, I think I have a problem with these people having their legs removed or people who'd like to sell a kidney just for some quick cash. Emotionally, I don't have a problem with people choosing Dr. Kevorkian, getting implants, or weird body piercings. Logically, it seems there shouldn't be any difference.

My problem lies with intent. If the person is doing it for, IMO, for the wrong reasons, then I have a problem with it. I wouldn't advocate Dr. Kevorkian for a perfectly healthy 30 year old. I certainly have no problem with someone giving up a kidney to save someone elses life, but if it's just to get a crack fix then it bothers me.

Monty