Paranormal Survey/Ghost Hunters

[Miss Whiplash]

I've been attempting to survey viewers of Ghost Hunters. I'm curious how the program is changing perception and popularity of the paranormal. I'm also interested in demographics viewership - are earlier statistics still true?

I posted the link on the Ghost Hunters forum and it was immediate deleted by the moderators. I appealed to several admins prior to the start of the survery and not one had the manners to contact me with any problems.

For those here who would like to take this survey- since I've blown $19.95 on the thing:

Parnormal Ghost Hunters Flash Survey (http://www.stellarsurvey.com/response/s.aspx?u=4752)

Non-cooperation with an independant study is the first sign of chicanery. Could it be Grant and Jason have feet of clay?

Edited spelling - still typing with one hand

[defaultdotxbe]

i took your survey, i personally find ghost hunters to be pretty scientific, especially compared to other paranormal "investigators"

[RemieV]

EMF detectors, Flir cameras, digital thermometers, and so forth only look scientific. These gadgets are used on the assumption that ghosts are real. They have never been proven to have any correlation of any kind to "hauntings", with the exception of high EMF readings being linked to hallucinations. If you're interested in reading more about that, "Spook" by Mary Roach talks about experimentation being done with it.

While it is true that many paranormal investigators are "less scientific", that does not make TAPS scientific at all. It would be like saying that Ouija boards are less scientific than mediums.

[defaultdotxbe]

i realize that to prove EMF detectors can find ghosts youd have to prove ghosts exist, but i see other groups saying (literally) "theres an EMF spike, it must be a ghost..nevermind that live electrical outlet over there" whereas ghost hunters at least tests their theories and tries to find normal explanations


EDIT: i guess my next stop shoudl be the "woo you do" thread, lol

[CLD]

Yeah the Ghost Hunters are occasionally shown tracing an EMF reading to an electrical outlet or panel. A few minutes later, they are running around waving the EMF meters yelling "2.1....2.2....2.3!" and so on while spooky music plays and they look alarmed. You tell me if you think they are being 'scientific' or not. :)

[Axenos]

I will watch it for a few moments if I pass it on the set. I find it marginally entertaining because I see it for what it is. Entertainment.

Ghosts and the paranormal are good TV draws right now, and it's all about ratings and getting people to watch your network... It's the Sci-Fi Channel after all.

I imagine when the interest slows down, that show will quietly disappear.

[Miss Whiplash]

I'm a bit disappointed by the reaction of the TAPS/GH forum mods. They are completely paranoid. After asking if any progress has been made in allowing the survey and relaying that, without the fanbase input, the stats are not infavor of the show, I was accused of "strong arm tactics." I was also charged with being "vague" and underhanded because I cannot say who would publish my article if it ever got written.

I should let the whole thing go since it appears I'm dealing with teenagers (and a few adults) in propeller hats. However, I would still like to compare viewer statistics with other paranormal polls. Are the trends the same? Is Ghost Hunters changing opinions in paranormal belief? It would make nice filler in anycase.

[CLD]

Of course they are paranoid.They are an island of believers in a sea of hostile skepticism. Behind TAPS walls, they are safe from ridicule. Your survey threatens them. You are bad and not to be trusted.

You may have better luck with this schism group:

http://www.tprconline.com/

(Yes, TAPS has already had a schism. Call the new group "TAPS-reformed", LOL. They still believe in TAPS, but don't worship at the old forum)

I used to read the "I Need Help" section of the TAPS forum where pathetic letters were published by people who were being "haunted". A typical one would go something like this:

"Help Me! We just moved into a house and one night in the backyard we saw moving shadows and it scared us. I hear creaking noises in the house at night too. I found a towel in the middle of the bathroom floor once when no one was supposed to be in there. Things disappear in the house too, sometimes my keys go missing. The former occupants of the house had a daughter who died. My kids are scared to death! Am I being haunted?"

Among all the replies from TAPS groupies telling this person that they have a "class 3 phantasm" or something, I might reply -- asking if they have considered any alternate non-paranormal explanations. The reply I get is invariably (and angrily) refuting that any of this could have normal explanations, the haunted householder has always been "sensitive" to these things, etc.

In my opinion, these folks WANT to be haunted. It's a way to get attention, be "special", and groove as part of the TAPS gang.

[Miss Whiplash]

One of the sad ones from a TAPS Family boards went like this:

“My daughter has gone away to college. I think her apartment is haunted. She’s sharing it with 5 other students. A roommate had this happen : One night a soda can fell off his bookcase headboard and onto his bed. It hit him and woke him up. He swore he didn’t touch it. My daughter said she saw a young child in walk by her door out of the corner of her eye. Once they were painting and woke up to find part a footprint in paint on the floor. Her cell phone does not work in some rooms. They hear banging in the walls at night when the AC comes on. “

And so on. It’s dreadfully sad. Yet the ghost hunters wanted to investigate this and called it a “true haunting!!!”.

[OccamsRzr]

One (of many) serious blow to the TAPS credibility is that they are ignorant of how their equipment works and the limitations of the equipment.

The "Ghosthunters" point an IR Thermometer into the air and claim to have found a temp. difference....An IR Thermometer measures SURFACE temp. NOT air temp. Did they not even read the instructions that came with the device?

[GhostDiva]

I personally will watch the show for entertainment reasons only. I honestly get bored with the residual comments and theories. They are the type of team that seems to be stuck in their theories when it comes to hauntings. They get a report, they load up, unload, create some drama, get some shotty evidence and comment on how the place may or may not be haunted. The show is the stereotype of "ghost hunters".
There are a lot of researchers out there who spend a lot of time investigating rumored haunted locations. The show is ignoring historical facts that may be the culprit to the stories. Just because someone said there was a death there doesnt make it a fact enough to even investigate.
The personal drama they create is what in fact has created their fan base. Has not much to do with how scientific they are.
They are ignoring the psychology involving hauntings and have replaced research with gizmo's and gadgets.
Blinking lights and thermometers pointed at air ducts is not impressive.

I took your survey... I can share it if you would like. I am curious to what the statistics show.
Paranormal investigators that I know have been investigating for many years and not a single one of them are impressed by the shows standard ghost hunter stereotype.

BUT... they are coming out with comic books, music CDs, clothing lines at JCPenny and im sure they will have super hero powers as time goes by.
The bottom line is.. the show is Entertainment and not to be taken too serious by anyone.
It is business to them and real veterans of the field are not that impressed.

[Miss Whiplash]

I never understood the marketing behind the t-shirts at JC Penny. Why didn't they go with Hot Topic?

[fuelair]

I've been attempting to survey viewers of Ghost Hunters. I'm curious how the program is changing perception and popularity of the paranormal. I'm also interested in demographics viewership - are earlier statistics still true?

I posted the link on the Ghost Hunters forum and it was immediate deleted by the moderators. I appealed to several admins prior to the start of the survery and not one had the manners to contact me with any problems.

For those here who would like to take this survey- since I've blown $19.95 on the thing:

Parnormal Ghost Hunters Flash Survey (http://www.stellarsurvey.com/response/s.aspx?u=4752)

Non-cooperation with an independant study is the first sign of chicanery. Could it be Grant and Jason have feet of clay?

Edited spelling - still typing with one hand

Minor quibbles with a couple of phrasings - There are conspiracy theories so, while I don't believe they are valid, I do believe they exist. And I find Ghost Hunters neither Entertainment nor (forget word you used).

[Miss Whiplash]

Minor quibbles with a couple of phrasings - There are conspiracy theories so, while I don't believe they are valid, I do believe they exist. And I find Ghost Hunters neither Entertainment nor (forget word you used).

It will come to you....

[GhostDiva]

I never understood the marketing behind the t-shirts at JC Penny. Why didn't they go with Hot Topic?

Perhaps they are too nerdy for HotTopic?

[Oberdan]

On threat of being lynched with my very first post here... and reading many posts in many areas first and finally seeing an intelligent, verbose community that are actually talking and not fighting, maybe I won't be hung too high. :)

That introduction out of the way, I'm sure why there has always been a huge demand for shows like Ghost Hunters, which is to a large degree, entertainment. There has to be something to it for us out there in the real world where rating doesn't matter. For as many as a hundred years that I personally know of (Grandfather spoke of ghost stories around campfires) we've been swapping spooky ghost stories. Well before the era of television and even radio.

I have my own set of classification for people when it comes to this subject.

Class 1: A person who believes in ghosts from the experiences of others and has not personally seen anything out of the ordinary.

Class 2: A person who doesn't believe in ghosts from the experiences of others and has not personally seen anything out of the ordinary.

Class 3: A person who has no choice but to believe in ghosts because of a true, up close and undenialble personal encounter(s), as in seeing is to believe. Not shadows, not a simple moving object, not an orb, but a true apparition.

Class 4: A person who won't believe in ghosts even if one was standing before him. That level of skeptic would be looking for halographic equipment and chemical compounds of hallucinagens that may have been introduced into his drink or food supply. And would draw the conclusion that what was seen and experienced couldn't have happened, so really did not happen and ghosts did not exist.

For those who may be wondering, I fit in the Class 3 catagory. But I refrain from going around trying to convince others. So much commercialization has occured over mass marketing techniques, any true, solid evidence that might actually be useful is completely shuffled off in a slush pile of fakes from people who want to make a name for themselves. Some fakes so good, it's even better than the real deal in content.

Every myth and legend has a root in true events somewhere. I just wish there was a way to seperate out all the garbage hype, the fakes, and the people making large bids for national attention, out and away from the materials that have been truly paranormal. Those comparisons might give a more accurate picture of the 5 W's. Who, what, where, when and why.

:D

[RemieV]

Oberdan, human memory and perception are unbelievably malleable. I even have an example.

For an incredibly brief period of time, I believed in ghostly presences because of an experience I had where someone was sitting on my ceiling like it was the floor. I could swear up and down I wasn't asleep at the time. I was TRYING to sleep, but hadn't gotten there yet. I was restless.

This happened in daylight - I had a night job then. I was convinced, and practically nothing could sway my thinking until...

Since that time, I'll occasionally have a really terrifying dream that is so realistic that my room is exactly the same, everything is in its place, and the right amount of daylight is outside for what time it would really be. I know that these are dreams now because I share my bed with someone. If they happened when I was alone, I might think they were as real as the person sitting on my ceiling.

Now, I'm not saying that there is no paranormal activity in the whole world. I don't know that, and haven't had the experiences of others to find out. But I will say that relying on any one piece of evidence is probably not a good idea, and that counts personal perceptions of events too.

There is a class in between 4 and 5. Class 4 is probably not quite skeptical enough, and Class 5 is a little 'round the bend, just like Class 1 would be.

A Class 4 would be a person who had independently verifiable evidence from another witness, who had not yet discussed what they had "seen" with the person, and preferably the testimony of a piece of equipment as well. Perhaps a camcorder.

For proof to actually be had, there should be a believer, a skeptic, and a camera. Now, the odds of that happening are incredibly slim, which is why I don't say definitely whether or not there is paranormal activity.

[CLD]

A "believer, a skeptic and a camera" aren't enough for me. TAPS claims to have all three present at every investigation anyway. But they are on TV, and anything done for TV is suspect. I assume we are talking about actual scientific investigation (and that would leave out TAPS). I would prefer two to four cameras covering multiple angles. And repeatability. And a secure "chain of evidence" process. If the Stanley Hotel (or St. Augustine Lighthouse, or Eastern State Penitentiary, or Myrtles planation, etc.) has so much activity, then it should be no problem to set up for a week or a month and record what TAPS has shown us on TV. I forget who said it on this forum, but the fact that TAPS packs up and leaves after telling the site occupants they have a haunting indicates their actual belief. If they truly felt they had captured provocative evidence of paranormal activity, they would stay on and keep digging for more. But instead, they leave. Like a troupe of carnival pitchmen.

[fuelair]

The danger of thinking of a show like Medium or Ghost Hunters as entertainment is that there are way too many incompetants out there who believe what they see on these shows is real (as in the classic -and true- story of the time Dan Blocker (playing "Hoss" on Bonanza at the time) was struck with an umbrella or cane by a woman who said as she hit him "you do what your Daddy tells you to next time!!). It's just (bad) acting people - it has no connection with reality........

[Hindmost]

I took the survey...it will skew the results toward the non-believer side of the curve.

I have posted this before, but it seems to bear repeating here. Any instrument that measures anything must be calibrated to some standard. For a ghost hunters EM meter or some other meter to actually read a ghost, it would have to be calibrated with a standardized ghost. Now, to get a standardized ghost in a cantainer that causes the meter to read a specific number at a specific distance..well, they don't even carry them at Wal Mart or Home Depot. It would be impossible to interpret any of the data the ghost hunters collect.

glenn:ghost:

[Foster Zygote]

Gee, I had one of those "saw someone out of the corner of my eye" moments just a few weeks ago. It startled the hell out of me as I was sure I was alone in the house. Of course the instant I turned my head the offending spook vanished. I had a thought and moved my head around a bit in the position it was in just before I saw the image, sure enough I was able to replicate the image again. It was a reflection on the inside of my eye glasses. It "moved" because my head had moved slightly and my brain obviously interpreted it as someone walking by.

Steven

[CLD]

Yeah but Dan Blocker didn't dress up like "Hoss" offstage. These Ghost Hunter guys are in character 24/7. They give lectures and host events.

Reminds me of the time when I used to post on the TAPS forums (masochism? yes, I may be guilty of it in this case). True story. I was subjected to a thousand insults and belittlements from the faithful due to my skeptical views. When that treatment failed to either drive me off or convert me, I was approached by a kindly fan who offered to try and help me see the light. "PM me" she said coquettishly, "I think skeptics make the best ghost hunters". OK. Well, I thought, perhaps the phrase "the woo you do" will take on an exciting double entrendre here. She started off by telling me that a little skepticism is good, but I had to approach "Ghost Hunters" with an open mind, free from negativity. "Let's find something you like about the show", she said. "Well," I offered, "I like it when they use the IR contact thermometers to measure air temperature. I always laugh my ass off at that". It was obvious this approach wasn't working too well, so she shifted gears a bit. "Once you have a paranormal experience, you will start believing in Jason and Grant. (Apparently the key to being less negative is to believe in Jason and Grant) "Is there any chance you could find a group to go ghost hunting with?" She told me about the TAPS-sponsored paranormal weekend at the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, CO. Needless to say, I didn't sign up, but I did investigate this scam a little. For $100 per person plus room and meals one can attend a stand up presentation by Jason and Grant, followed by 2 guys promoting their paranormal radio show, followed by 2 psychics who will tell your fortune for $30 each --- and wrapping up with a big group "ghost hunt" of the hotel led by the TAPS gang. (One could imagine the 90 minute "season finale" episode of "Ghost Hunters" featuring the exciting paranormal experiences of the TAPS team while at the Stanley Hotel was one big commercial. But that would be crass, wouldn't it?)

So that's it. It's a TV show. It's a cult. It's a booming business. When your Grandma shaves a TAPS logo into her scalp and signs her stock portfolio over to the Ghost Hunters, don't say I didn't warn you. :)

[Miss Whiplash]

I had a mysterious footprint in paint on the carpet not long ago. I think my stepping in a tray of ceiling white had something to do with the apparition, though. :D

[politas]

On threat of being lynched with my very first post here... and reading many posts in many areas first and finally seeing an intelligent, verbose community that are actually talking and not fighting, maybe I won't be hung too high. :)

Class 3: A person who has no choice but to believe in ghosts because of a true, up close and undenialble personal encounter(s), as in seeing is to believe. Not shadows, not a simple moving object, not an orb, but a true apparition.
For those who may be wondering, I fit in the Class 3 catagory.

Shame you aren't interested in convincing people. I'd like to hear the details of your encounter.

I find many people who are convinced they have had an encounter are quite resistant to attempts to examine their experience critically.

Personally, I have a quite clear memory from my childhood, completely indistinguishable from my other childhood memories, of a large wardrobe with shelves full of identical stuffed animals. Now, I know that such a cupboard never existed, but my "memory" of it is very clear and realistic.

As a result, I know that human memory can be faulty.

[fuelair]

Shame you aren't interested in convincing people. I'd like to hear the details of your encounter.

I find many people who are convinced they have had an encounter are quite resistant to attempts to examine their experience critically.

Personally, I have a quite clear memory from my childhood, completely indistinguishable from my other childhood memories, of a large wardrobe with shelves full of identical stuffed animals. Now, I know that such a cupboard never existed, but my "memory" of it is very clear and realistic.

As a result, I know that human memory can be faulty.

We're really sorry you remembered - we'll be coming for you now.

[ExitDose]

Took the survey. My only problem with it is that some of the questions assume an explanation. The "have you experienced poltergeist activity(moving objects, noises, etc.)?" question assumes that if you answer yes you also accept that this is a sign of a poltergeist. It seems like splitting it into two questions would be more beneficial for accuracy. For example, "Have you witnessed an object moving on its own without a known cause?" Followed by, "Do you think that this was caused by a poltergeist?"

[Miss Whiplash]

Took the survey. My only problem with it is that some of the questions assume an explanation. The "have you experienced poltergeist activity(moving objects, noises, etc.)?" question assumes that if you answer yes you also accept that this is a sign of a poltergeist. It seems like splitting it into two questions would be more beneficial for accuracy. For example, "Have you witnessed an object moving on its own without a known cause?" Followed by, "Do you think that this was caused by a poltergeist?"

It would have been more beneficial, I'm sure. However, as the surevy is asked for beleif in such things in question two, and this part delt with viewers experiences after watching Ghost Hunters. I felt it was redundant. Besides, I was limited to 20 questions and would have had to pay more. No one should pay more than a few $ for anything connected with Ghost Hunters.

I'm sure many could have come up with a more accurate survey. One person objected to listing CT as they exist. Ouija boards exist too, but this deals with the belief mechanism behind them both. Also the word "factual" in one question was not understood. Perhaps this word has fallen out of the current lexicon and I'm behind the times. All in all, I tried to write a KISS based survey because Ghost Hunters is targeted for the teenaged & 18-24 male viewership. Complete accuracy is impossible as TAPS and the Ghost Hunters forum (the "official" forum and the largest collection of viewers on the internet) refuse to allow members to participate.

As it stands now, though, the majority of results echo previous Gallup polls on the paranormal. I have found some unexpected answers that are interesting. I wonder if the trend will hold for 30 days.

[Foster Zygote]

One (of many) serious blow to the TAPS credibility is that they are ignorant of how their equipment works and the limitations of the equipment.

The "Ghosthunters" point an IR Thermometer into the air and claim to have found a temp. difference....An IR Thermometer measures SURFACE temp. NOT air temp. Did they not even read the instructions that came with the device?
Sure they did. They need to know where to put the battery don't they? But to them I doubt that it's so much an instrument as a prop. "Tricorder readings indicate ectoplasm Captain." "Dammit Jason, I'm a plumber not a scriptwriter!"

That IR thermometer bit killed me too when I saw it. I've used an IR pyrometer to measure racing tire temps before and it don't do jack if you just wave it around in the air.

Steven

[RemieV]

Sure they did. They need to know where to put the battery don't they? But to them I doubt that it's so much an instrument as a prop. "Tricorder readings indicate ectoplasm Captain." "Dammit Jason, I'm a plumber not a scriptwriter!"

That IR thermometer bit killed me too when I saw it. I've used an IR pyrometer to measure racing tire temps before and it don't do jack if you just wave it around in the air.

Steven

This absolutely cracked me up. I think I'm tired...

[OccamsRzr]

I took the survey several days ago. I am very interested in hearing about your results.

Where will the results be published/posted??

[Miss Whiplash]

After the data is sifted at the end of 30 days and it all written up, I will most certainly post the link here for everyone to see the results. You (and others) may always send a PM if you like and I'll forward the link.