Loose Change - Part IV

[jhunter1163]

James, because we're all Gravy, remember?

[T.A.M.]

Re:LC comments on Mark Roberts having a wife and kids and some other hobby...

Hello...I have a wife, two kids, a dog, and I work 50h a week as a health professional, but here I am, joined in the fight.

How naive are these children, to think that this is just about wasting time.

I have lots of other things I could be "Wasting" time on, but I do not consider this a "Waste" of time. I consider it a duty to make sure that those more gullable and seceptable to snake oil salesmen are prepared, warned, and informed...

TAM

[Belz...]

How naive are these children, to think that this is just about wasting time.

Considering how much time THEY devote to this issue, that's rich.

[CptColumbo]

So, the LC board is devouring itself if I'm reading the posts here correctly.

[T.A.M.]

yes, at a staggering rate...and the "Scholars" are doing the same...at a somewhat slower rate, but more profound way.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Who runs Bartertown?

[CptColumbo]

Who runs Bartertown?

You know who.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

You know who.

Who? Runs? Bartertown?

[Submersible]

If it were not for the massive amount of brilliant people in this country, the general public wouldn't have to go through this tremendous case of "mental diarrhea" and discussion, to draw the simple conclusion that a relatively small fire couldn't have sucked WTC 7 ... underground.

http://www.wtc7.net/docs/streamers.jpg
http://http://www.wtc7.net/docs/streamers.jpg
Half-way through Building 7's 6.5-second plunge, streamers suggestive of demolition charges emerged from the facade.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fema/wtc-7-small.gif

Du'mass

[Mancman]

Half-way through Building 7's 6.5-second plunge, streamers suggestive of demolition charges emerged from the facade.



As opposed to every demolition in history, in which the 'streamers' occur before the building falls.

[T.A.M.]

That link brings me to the welcome page...not nice...I am not going to wade through tonnes of crap to get to the pic you wish us to see...

[Johnny Pixels]

If it were not for the massive amount of brilliant people in this country, the general public wouldn't have to go through this tremendous case of "mental diarrhea" and discussion, to draw the simple conclusion that a relatively small fire couldn't have sucked WTC 7 ... underground.


Relative to what?

[Dog Town]

Du'mass

I'm sorry, but was this your sig, or directed at the moron on that site?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

If it were not for the massive amount of brilliant people in this country, the general public wouldn't have to go through this tremendous case of "mental diarrhea" and discussion, to draw the simple conclusion that a relatively small fire couldn't have sucked WTC 7 ... underground.

http://www.wtc7.net/docs/streamers.jpg
http://http://www.wtc7.net/docs/streamers.jpg
Half-way through Building 7's 6.5-second plunge, streamers suggestive of demolition charges emerged from the facade.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fema/wtc-7-small.gif

Du'mass

If you know it was a "relatively small fire" then please provide the following:
(1) Approx. square feet affected by fire
(2) Location of those areas affected
(3) Approx. max temp of fire
(4) Approx. avg temp of fire

[Abbyas]

If it were not for the massive amount of brilliant people in this country

The biggest obstacle to the truth movement: smart people.

Another problem? The testimony of firefighters regarding the massive fires in WTC7.

Take a look:

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_damage.html

[WildCat]

A column from today's Chicago Tribune about 9/11 nutters is also on the author's blog (http://dennisbyrne.blogspot.com/), as you can well imagine the troofers are flooding the comments section w/ insanity. I replied and posted a link to 9/11 Myths, if anyone else wants to add anything feel free!

It's the 2nd article from the top.

[defaultdotxbe]

A column from today's Chicago Tribune about 9/11 nutters is also on the author's blog (http://dennisbyrne.blogspot.com/), as you can well imagine the troofers are flooding the comments section w/ insanity. I replied and posted a link to 9/11 Myths, if anyone else wants to add anything feel free!

It's the 2nd article from the top.

more CTer fascism, they claim they are merely voicing their opinions, but then attack anyone who voices a dissenting opinion

[CptColumbo]

Who? Runs? Bartertown?
I told you, no more embargos.

[gumboot]

There were, but someone deleted them.

ETA: looks like several have been restored. Good work, JREF!


And the criticism bit is longer than his bio.

:rolleyes:

-Andrew

[pgwenthold]

more CTer fascism, they claim they are merely voicing their opinions, but then attack anyone who voices a dissenting opinion

It's the "I'mjust voicing my opinion" defense. Oddly enough, they love to proclaim that they are allowed to have their opinion, but apparently no one is allowed to have the opinion that their opinion is idiotic.

I should note, this is a standard fallacy for people who are in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are wrong and have no actual rebuttal. It is so common, in fact, that I have proposed to include a description of it in discussion board posting FAQs.

[T.A.M.]

Question:

wrt Waleed Al-Shehri. Embree-Riddle has a golden eagle card you are required to have when you attend school. It has a photo on it. You would think that someone has access to those photos, and if they keep them around on file back to 1997, then someone could get access to the photo of the Embree Waleed, then compare that photo to the FBI one could they not??

Anyone know if these photos are available?

[Kent1]

The comments in reply to the DNA are almost as amusing as the no planers. Check out "solgrabber"
"I am calling BS on this one.

If they collected samples of DNA from the vehicles which the hijackers used what did they compare these first samples up against?

Did these supposed hijackers walk into a blood donation clinic before hand and fill out a form with their names on it for the FBI to compare their samples with or something?

All that was proven was that they matched DNA from unknown sources to DNA from unknown sources. This means they proved one thing and one thing only,

F*CK ALL."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually they did fill out a form with their names on it at the rental shops and hotels. Here's the cars for starters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cars_used_by_the_9/11_hijackers

[negativ]

Over on the LC forum, various posters comment about the glorious day, sooner rather than later, when Jesus will re^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H prosecutors will bring charges against the "REAL" perpetrators of 9/11.

Is it likely, or even plausible that any of this stuff would ever be aired in court, in a Jim Garrison-style affair? A copyright infringment suit, a libel suit?

[MarkyX]

http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/

Frequently Stupid Theories is up. Post around.

[Earl The Tall]

http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/

Frequently Stupid Theories is up. Post around.

Does it make me an aweful person that I wished they fell into the fountain?:confused:

[defaultdotxbe]

Does it make me an aweful person that I wished they fell into the fountain?:confused:

nah, i wish i had been there to push them into the fountain and im not an awful person....i think

[Brainster]

Quite. I don't understand what Dylan means by "i rest my case" here. He rests his case that the person clowning him is a hottie skepchick rather than a pale, greasy nerdling? How does this help his case, much less rest it?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11584&view=findpost&p=6938682

There does seem to be some sexism at work among the Deniers. Have you seen their poster for 9-11? They managed to put six faces on it and this being the era of multi-culti nonsense, they made sure one was black and one Hispanic. Two look remarkably like Dylan and Korey. But none of them are female:

[Kent1]

Question:

wrt Waleed Al-Shehri. Embree-Riddle has a golden eagle card you are required to have when you attend school. It has a photo on it. You would think that someone has access to those photos, and if they keep them around on file back to 1997, then someone could get access to the photo of the Embree Waleed, then compare that photo to the FBI one could they not??

Anyone know if these photos are available?
TAM, not sure about the photos, but one suggestion would be to find a copy of Dateline NBC's "A Saudi Apology" on Aug 25 2002 I've seen the episode where they interviewed family members.

I still have a copy of the web page discussing the special. I hope this helps a little.
Also if you haven't I'd check out 9/11myths.


Exclusive interview with brother of two hijackers *
Brothers suspected of being 9/11 hijackers, Wail al Shahiri, left, and Waleed al Shahiri. *

NBC News

Aug. 25 — *President Bush and top Saudi officials are meeting this week to discuss further cooperation in investigating the Sept. 11 terror attacks. Saudi Arabia was home to 15 of the hijackers. What triggered the terrorists’ hate? Dateline’s John Hockenberry travelled to Saudi Arabia’s Asir province to find out.
* * *
* * * *IT IS HERE where Osama bin Laden found his most potent weapon — ordinary angry Saudis off the radars of U.S. and Saudi intelligence, men with some U.S. education and most important, U.S. visas. They went largely unnoticed before September 11, safe in the shadows of the U.S.-Saudi blind spot that al-Qaeda recruited without fear.
* * * *For 30 years Bob Baer was a dedicated field operative for the CIA in the Middle East. He left the CIA in 1997. And he is the author of the book “See No Evil,” about the U.S.-Saudi relationship as he saw it.
* * * *“Inside the mosques they’re saying go kill yourselves in the name of Islam,” says Baer. “And where was the United States? Where was the Saudi royal family?”
* * * *Ordinary Saudis living far from the strategic oil fields simply never figured into the U.S.-Saudi arrangement. But on September 11 they redefined it. Even their parents were clueless.
* * * *Prince Khalid Al-Faisal is governor of Asir Province. A third of the Saudi hijackers grew up here.
* * * *
* * * *Prince Khaled Al-Faisal: “They didn’t actually think that their sons were able to do such terrible action. But they also believe that they have been deceived, their children have been deceived.”
* * * *Prince Khaled Al-Faisal: “And they are good people by the way — their families.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “The families?”
* * * *Prince Khaled Al-Faisal: “Are very good people.”
* * * *
* * * *It’s a relatively isolated province in the extreme south where its rocky hills rise out of the Red Sea.
* * * *
* * * *Prince Khaled Al-Faisal: “I think they have been chosen, especially to hit the American Saudi relations.”
* * * *
‘What I want to say for the American people, we are very sorry what happened in 11th September for the families, for everybody.’
— SALAH AL-SHAHIRI
Brother of suspected hijackers * * * *Chosen well. Reports from southern Saudi Arabia suggest a loose network of radical clerics who identified aimless, possibly bitter young men, offering them a chance at immortality. Does the government have an explanation?
* * * *
* * * *John Hockenberry: “Is there some aspect of Saudi life that would encourage well-to-do, educated, young men, to do these kinds of things? Bin Laden is one.”
* * * *Prince Khaled Al-Faisal: “The only problem is the Palestinian problems.”
* * * *
* * * *From Israel, brutal images dominate Saudi media. It’s an inescapable issue here and a catch-all official explanation for the motives of the 15 Saudi hijackers on September 11. So what is the official explanation for why no Palestinians were among the hijackers on September 11?
* * * *
* * * *John Hockenberry: “Why didn’t they [Palestinians] fly the planes into the World Trade Center?”
* * * *Prince Khaled Al-Faisal: “Why don’t you ask Bin Laden himself?”
* * * *
FROM WELL-TO-DO-FAMILIES
* * * *“Dateline” decided to speak directly with the families of the hijackers in Saudi Arabia. What we found is that when you get on the trail of terrorists in Saudi Arabia, the journey takes you through some pretty nice neighborhoods.
We went to the home of the well-to-do family of Hani Hanjour — the man believed to have flown the plane into the Pentagon on September 11. The Hanjour family is wealthy from car dealerships, selling every make from Chevrolet to Rolls Royce. Hani had money and privilege and access to a U.S. visa, but he was denied the chance to be a pilot for the Saudi national airline.
* * * *We came here to interview the family. We were told the family wanted to talk to Americans about the shocking events of September 11 — events caused in part by one of their family members.
* * * *They even gave us never-before-seen pictures of Hani, hardly images of a zealot, a snapshot he sent home from Arizona, skiing — presumably taken during a break from his pilot training in Phoenix.
* * * *When we got here though we were told the family was in too much pain, too much grief to speak to the media. Then we were told what they really wanted was money — $12,000. Twelve grand to explain why their son was part of the worst terrorist attack in history or $12,000 to deny it, we didn’t hang around to find out.
* * * *But in Kamish, Mushyat, Saudi Arabia, where it is believed five of the hijackers grew up and were recruited, we finally met Salah, a brother of Wail and Waleed Al-Shahiri, both on American Airlines Flight 11 — the first plane to hit the World Trade Center.
* * * *
* * * *John Hockenberry: “Do you think that Walid, Wail, your brothers, were capable of being part of this operation?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “In my judgment, impossible. I know them, I know their behavior.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “What if it is true? What would you say?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “If that is true, we have to be realistic. And accept the tragedy.”
* * * *
A FAMILY’S SHOCK
‘They were youth who grew up in a house with the best upbringing. Their behavior was very normal. There is no need to think they had crazy wild thoughts. There was nothing wrong with them. They were very normal.’
— SALAH AL-SHAHIRI
* * * *Like the Hanjours, the Al- Shahiri family is a well-to-do, hard working family. The father built a mosque as a gift to the town. It’s across the street from the home in which Walid and Wail Al-Shahiri grew up.
* * * *
* * * *John Hockenberry: “You grew up in the same house with them. Who were they, as human beings? Who were they?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “They were youth who grew up in a house with the best upbringing. Their behavior was very normal. There is no need to think they had crazy wild thoughts. There was nothing wrong with them. They were very normal.”
* * * *
* * * *Salah says his brother’s alienation and eventual recruitment by al-Qaeda was invisible.
* * * *
* * * *John Hockenberry: “They were in their twenties. Is it possible that they were lost? Didn’t know what their future would be? Maybe frustrated?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “Regarding Wail, he was a teacher. He graduated from the university and he became a teacher, an art teacher.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “It appears that your brother found something else to do, be part of al-Qaeda.”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “I don’t know. It is very difficult to imagine that. It is difficult because the time was very short. There was not enough time for him to be trained to fly a plane. Furthermore, he didn’t know English.”
* * * *
* * * *It’s a denial motivated by family pride. But scratch below the surface and you find truth.
* * * *
* * * *John Hockenberry: “Do you believe they are dead, in your heart?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “For me? Yes.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “You do? You carry that around in your heart, right? That’s a terrible burden?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “As for myself, yes.”
More from Dateline
• Schedule
• Homepage
• Newsletter* * * *Salah’s truth bears no resemblance to the official line from the Saudi royals — that the hijackers were religious zealots seeking revenge for the Palestinians.
* * * *
* * * *John Hockenberry: “Were your two brothers religious?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “No. Not in the way one might imagine.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “But your brothers didn’t march in the streets and work day and night to free the Palestinians? Did they?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “No.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “No. Did they talk about getting U.S. military troops out of the kingdom?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “No.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “No. So it looks like your two brothers were brainwashed.”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “Yes.”
* * * *
* * * *More blindness or is it simply that no one ever asked the right questions of these people? We learned Osama bin Laden is no hero in this household.
* * * *
* * * *John Hockenberry: “There is this famous video of Osama bin Laden speaking in Afghanistan talking about some people on the airplanes in New York and Washington did not even know that they were going to die — had no idea that this was a suicide mission. Is it possible that Walid and Wail were on a plane not knowing what was to happen?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “It is possible. They were still immature.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “It is possible. If so, Osama bin Laden is laughing about the death of your two brothers?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “I hated this man for along time. I hate his ideas.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “But beyond his way of thinking, he’s laughing about what might have been the murder of your two brothers.”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “He is a devil.”
* * * *
* * * *Can this devil who has devastated this family and struck deep into the heart of America achieve his goal of toppling the kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Prince Turki Al-Faisal, a member of the Saudi royal family, says he’s not worried about Osama bin Laden.
* * * *
* * * *Prince Turki Al-Faisal: “And every time many experts have predicted the downfall of the kingdom. When the revolution in Egypt took place the time they said there’s going to be a domino effect in the Arab world and all the kings will disappear. The kingdom did not.”
* * * *
* * * *And there’s little sign the U.S.-Saudi arrangement is about to disappear anytime soon. But the jury is still out on this kingdom in the Arabian Desert. The victims of September 11 are demanding unprecedented compensation for what they say was Saudi Arabia ignoring terrorists in their midst.
* * * *In its few statements, Saudi Arabia has officially condemned the attacks on September 11 and said they are working side by side with the U.S. in the war on terror. We got something more on our journey to Saudi Arabia — a heartfelt apology to the American people from an ordinary man at the center of an extraordinary tragedy.
* * * *
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “What I want to say for the American people, we are very sorry what happened in 11th September for the families, for everybody.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “After all that’s happened, can Americans and Saudis still be friends?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “Yes.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “In English.”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “Yes.”
* * * *John Hockenberry: “Do you believe it?”
* * * *Salah Al-Shahiri: “Yes. I believe it.”

* * * *Despite the Saudi assertion that it’s working “side by side” with America in the war on terror, U.S. investigators have not been able to talk to the families of the hijacking suspects as “Dateline” has done. The Saudis say they are conducting their own investigation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
This article is an excerpt from a longer report that aired on Dateline NBC.

[sleahead]

The comments in reply to the DNA are almost as amusing as the no planers. Check out "solgrabber"
"I am calling BS on this one.

If they collected samples of DNA from the vehicles which the hijackers used what did they compare these first samples up against?

Did these supposed hijackers walk into a blood donation clinic before hand and fill out a form with their names on it for the FBI to compare their samples with or something?

All that was proven was that they matched DNA from unknown sources to DNA from unknown sources. This means they proved one thing and one thing only,

F*CK ALL."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually they did fill out a form with their names on it at the rental shops and hotels. Here's the cars for starters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cars_used_by_the_9/11_hijackers

And as for what they compared the DNA recovered in the hotel and car to:

http://www.implosionworld.com/news.htm

DEMOLITION TEAMS RELATE GROUND ZERO EXPERIENCES

Implosionworld.com Exclusive, March 29, 2003

Although every speaker captivated the standing-room only crowd with various stories, it was Dannenfelser who provided some of the most compelling observations. Having spent months coordinating retrieval efforts at the Fresh Kills Landfill in Staten Island, he spoke of working closely with the FBI and other agencies in developing various types of debris filtering machines, including one that could recognize small amounts of "human material" for DNA identification. He also spoke of retrieving, "about 10,000 pieces of the airplanes, which I kept in a pile by my truck for safekeeping."

Nice little piece, that There is also bad news in there for the CTs who believe:

1) Material was hastily shipped to China without examination.
2) Contolled Demolition Inc were the only demoltion contractors at Ground Zero.
3) No planes hit the towers.

[gumboot]

For anyone wanting a little soundbyte piece of info for rebutting claims of "paralysed air defences"

From my NORAD document (http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/fst/NORAD.pdf) the following important information can be gathered:

The time from first sign of hijacking to NEADS being notified of the hijacking, and then how much time NORAD had after being notified to carry out an intercept:

AA11 - NEADS notified 24 minutes after first sign of hijacking and 9 minutes before it hit the North Tower
UA175 - NEADS notified 11 minutes after first sign of hijacking and 0 minutes before it hit the South Tower
AA77 - NEADS nofified 41 minutes after first sign of hijacking and 2 minutes before it hit The Pentagon
UA93 - NEADS notified 28 minutes after first sign of hijacking and 4 minutes after it had crashed

These useful bits of info quickly dispell claims of a stand-down or "Air Defense Failure" (if you find yourself going into more detail feel free to refer to my summary).

-Andrew

[LashL]

http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/

Frequently Stupid Theories is up. Post around.

Excellent work, as always. Thanks, Mark.

[Belz...]

http://www.wtc7.net/docs/streamers.jpg
http://http://www.wtc7.net/docs/streamers.jpg
Half-way through Building 7's 6.5-second plunge, streamers suggestive of demolition charges emerged from the facade.

Demo charges don't produce "streamers". There goes THAT theory.
If it were not for the massive amount of brilliant people in this country, the general public wouldn't have to go through this tremendous case of "mental diarrhea" and discussion, to draw the simple conclusion that a relatively small fire couldn't have sucked WTC 7 ... underground.

Relatively small ?

[LashL]

Does it make me an aweful person that I wished they fell into the fountain?:confused:

Not at all.

Your quote reminded me of something else, though:

9/11 Deniers are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

[Belz...]

There does seem to be some sexism at work among the Deniers. Have you seen their poster for 9-11? They managed to put six faces on it and this being the era of multi-culti nonsense, they made sure one was black and one Hispanic. Two look remarkably like Dylan and Korey. But none of them are female:

Don't forget this comment, Brainster:

I can't believe abbyanne is a lady. It would take balls to put that stuff on a public website

Followed by a damn ROTFLMAO smiley...

[WildCat]

The Loosers have a new, foolproof method of finding the TRUTH™ (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11739&view=findpost&p=6960104):
I've been working on contacting some of them via seance. They have answers.

You just can't make this stuff up... :eye-poppi

[realitybites]

Don't forget this comment, Brainster:



Followed by a damn ROTFLMAO smiley...
In the truthers defense, their only previous female member on that forum was that crazy hippie chick who's got the fetish for burning the flag while dancing in her overgrown yard in her birthday suit.

I mean... I don't care what you believe, that s***'s gonna leave a scar.

[jhunter1163]

QUOTE (MasterMakeUp @ Aug 29 2006, 05:41 AM)
well according to the documentary there were no people on those planes.. That they werent commercial aircrafts..


Well according to Loose Change, it wasnt the real Osama in the tape and the hijackers are "alive". So?

It's about asking question, I dont buy half the stuff on Loose Change, but I know Loose Change Final Cut is going to be amazing...and it's ok to ask questions.
The 9/11 families sure don't buy the official story.

Not on the LC forum, it isn't. Bolding mine.

[Regnad Kcin]

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2848&d=1156825114

New Kids On The Block are back together?! Omigod!!!

[realitybites]

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2848&d=1156825114

New Kids On The Block are back together?! Omigod!!!
I think my favorite sign on that poster is the "New Citizens Investigation" one. Why leave investigations up to scientists and researchers (you know, people actually qualified and knowledgable in such matters) when Average Joe only needs a 56k modem and a search engine?

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a date with Google. We're gonna go have a picnic in a wi-fi park and cure cancer.

[Belz...]

The Loosers have a new, foolproof method of finding the TRUTH™ (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11739&view=findpost&p=6960104):

I've been working on contacting some of them via seance. They have answers.

You just can't make this stuff up... :eye-poppi

:jaw-dropp

[chipmunk stew]

There does seem to be some sexism at work among the Deniers. Have you seen their poster for 9-11? They managed to put six faces on it and this being the era of multi-culti nonsense, they made sure one was black and one Hispanic. Two look remarkably like Dylan and Korey. But none of them are female:
http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2848&d=1156825114
Well the black dude is Immortal Technique (http://myspace-403.vo.llnwd.net/00200/30/42/200532403_l.jpg), and the old guy must be Alex Jones. I think the "Hispanic" dude is Jason? No idea who the towhead on the left is.

[60hzxtl]

There does seem to be some sexism at work among the Deniers. Have you seen their poster for 9-11? They managed to put six faces on it and this being the era of multi-culti nonsense, they made sure one was black and one Hispanic. Two look remarkably like Dylan and Korey. But none of them are female:

I'm just really surprised you talented guys haven't monkeyed with the signs these in the background to include stuff like:

No Justice No Pizza!

or

Investigate Dylan Avery

or better,

Audit Dylan Avery

[chipmunk stew]

I'm just really surprised you talented guys haven't monkeyed with the signs these in the background to include stuff like:

No Justice No Pizza!

or

Investigate Dylan Avery

or better,

Audit Dylan Avery
Not yet, but MarkyX did have fun with a different picture:
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/
:D

[DavidJames]

Daily walk through the LC forum reveals this bit of CT logic. This quote is from merc who announced in this thread their revolutionary finding while in DC that "there was a plane".

There is no evidence of a missile anywhere, not even to make the damage. Maybe this plane fired a missile or a drone as it passed over, or the trailer was prepositioned to fire one

So merc says there was no evidence of a missile and merc says maybe the plane fired a missile.

Thanks for clearing that up merc and thanks for yet again showing the world why CT logic, isn't logic at all.

[Abbyas]

Well the black dude is Immortal Technique, and the old guy must be Alex Jones. I think the "Hispanic" dude is Jason? No idea who the towhead on the left is.

Apparantly that's "Luke". He's a 19 year old kid who fills in as their staten island connection. Gravy and Reality Bites have met him.

The only reason I know this is because I was directed to Luke's myspace page by a CTer and his little avatar is of the drawing the towhead on the left.

Why not Les Jamison, the leader of the NY911 truth movment? Who knows.

[60hzxtl]

Apparantly that's "Luke". He's a 19 year old kid who fills in as their staten island connection. Gravy and Reality Bites have met him.


Luke isn't the pole holder at gz, who wears the COLUMBIA U. shirt, and expounds on the "speed of gravity" is he?

[chipmunk stew]

Apparantly that's "Luke". He's a 19 year old kid who fills in as their staten island connection. Gravy and Reality Bites have met him.

The only reason I know this is because I was directed to Luke's myspace page by a CTer and his little avatar is of the drawing the towhead on the left.
Someone at LC said it was Jack Blood? :con2:

[T.A.M.]

Daily walk through the LC forum reveals this bit of CT logic. This quote is from merc who announced in this thread their revolutionary finding while in DC that "there was a plane".



So merc says there was no evidence of a missile and merc says maybe the plane fired a missile.

Thanks for clearing that up merc and thanks for yet again showing the world why CT logic, isn't logic at all.

That is absolutely priceless. Isnt Merc Paul Thompson? My god the man makes no sense, but hey, if he is gonna do our investigative work for us, and these are the result he is producing, let him go...let him go...lol

Someone shoud be quoting them, put it away for the next MarkyX production.

LC Admin: We have confirmed a huge jet airliner was seen diving toward the pentagon prior to the crash.

LC Admin: There was no evidence of a missile there, not even for damage.

LC movie: No plane hit the Pentagon...it was a cruise missile.

lol...it is jus priceless.

[Abbyas]

Luke isn't the pole holder at gz, who wears the COLUMBIA U. shirt, and expounds on the "speed of gravity" is he?

No, no. That's Rick. I think.


Someone at LC said it was Jack Blood?

Heck, could be. But this Luke thinks it's him.

[realitybites]

No, no. That's Rick. I think.



Heck, could be. But this Luke thinks it's him.
We really should do a census next time we're there.

But could you imagine the paranoia that would spread when we start going around with our government issue notepads asking for names?

[Belz...]

:D

[kookbreaker]

The Loosers have a new, foolproof method of finding the TRUTH™ (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11739&view=findpost&p=6960104):

You just can't make this stuff up... :eye-poppi

Would it be wrong of me to suggest to them that Trepanation is helpful for letting the spirit's messages in?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Would it be wrong of me to suggest to them that Trepanation is helpful for letting the spirit's messages in?

No, it would not. I'd even be glad to provide the power drill.

[Hellbound]

No, it would not. I'd even be glad to provide the power drill.

And I have the perfect bit for it. It was originally for cutting holes for doorknobs, but I think it's perfectly suitable for cutting holes in doorknobs, as well.

[Brainster]

This is an excellent article (http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060828/COLUMNISTS/608280416), which I've already posted over at the "Post 9-11 Conspiracy Editorials Here" thread.

You need merely type "9/11 conspiracy" into an Internet search engine to become swept into this seductive web of nonsense. The creators of films like "Loose Change" (perfectly titled because it doesn't add up to much) and Web sites like www.911Truth.org pick through the details of one of this nation's darkest days with the paranoid verve of mad patriots, convinced they are uncovering the truth behind their worst fears.

[realitybites]

The loosers are upping their self-proclaimed credentials from scientest/researchers to clinical physchologists:

The one thing we couldn't get over is that this man is allowed to drive. He seemed to be too senile or old to be driving a cab. I can't describe it, but it seemed as if he was programmed with this story that he only seemed to have memorized only until specific questions or details were asked about. (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11451)

[Gravy]

Go here: http://www.loosechange911.com/
Click on Evidence/Pentagon, and scroll down until you see a photo that really, really doesn't belong.

[Abbyas]

Go here: http://www.loosechange911.com/
Click on Evidence/Pentagon, and scroll down until you see a photo that really, really doesn't belong.

:jaw-dropp
CNN will just hire anyone these days.

[chipmunk stew]

Go here: http://www.loosechange911.com/
Click on Evidence/Pentagon, and scroll down until you see a photo that really, really doesn't belong.
:yikes: Is that what Jamie McIntyre looks like when you wear the special sunglasses?

[Cuddles]

In the truthers defense, their only previous female member on that forum was that crazy hippie chick who's got the fetish for burning the flag while dancing in her overgrown yard in her birthday suit.

I mean... I don't care what you believe, that s***'s gonna leave a scar.

So they got rid of her because she was too sane?

[Kent1]

:yikes: Is that what Jamie McIntyre looks like when you wear the special sunglasses?

LOL!!!!! Oh boy....he's a monster.
I guess he's seen better days since this clip.
http://www.911myths.com/html/jamie_mcintyre_and_the_pentago.html

[WildCat]

Go here: http://www.loosechange911.com/
Click on Evidence/Pentagon, and scroll down until you see a photo that really, really doesn't belong.
Wow, besides the mummy CNN reporter there is just so many factual errors in the new "bullet-proof, 100% fact checked" new Loose Change movie I don't even know where to start... Dylan Avery is either a complete fraud or one of the most mentally challenged people on the planet.

[realitybites]

Dylan Avery is either a complete fraud or one of the most mentally challenged people on the planet.
Is it possible he's both A and B?

[T.A.M.]

I have got to seriously stop going over to the LC forum. the more I read, teh more I really, honestly, want to sign up, and within a 2 minute period SPAM THE F&*K out of the whole site in anger.

See how they INTEROGATE, and then BELITTLE, this poor older cab driver.

HERE ARE SOME GODAMN SMILIES FOR YOU

:jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :eek: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :covereyes :crowded:

[T.A.M.]

If I thought it would do any good I would report him and Russel and whoever else went on that trip for harrassing those poor people. Dylan and CREW you are a bunch of arrogant, obnoxious, juvenile pathetic excuses for a human beings, and if I ever have the displeasure of meeting you, you will be in for one horrific telling off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dog Town]

How about this guy hav'en Children Of the Matrix in his front seat?
Seeing how CTers don't believe in coincidences!

[T.A.M.]

i dunno, maybe Dylan or someone planted it...lol

[negativ]

Jeez.

From the same thread with the seance guy: (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11739&view=findpost&p=6959092)

When someone asks you why they bothered to swap out the planes if the people inside likely never saw 9/12 anyway...

911 was a PsyOp... a Psychological Operation. TV was the primary delivery system (print being second), and there were 300 million targets domestically alone.

You can't show dead bodies on tv. You can't put dead bodies in the paper. You can't show bodyparts. For the 2 non-trade tower attacks, they wanted some closeup coverage in order to deliver the fullest terror effect. They could zoom right in on the pentagon. If there had been 80 bodies shredded on the lawn and a lot of luggage, they would have been forced to only show plumes of smoke from a block away. And that doesn't scare people like a hole in the building we trust to keep us safe.

People were dead the moment they bought their ticket and probably never saw lunchtime that day. But you just can't have that on TV if you want to be able to parade the footage over and over for presidential grandstanding purposes.

:confused: :confused:

So "They" are OK with intentionally murdering thousands of "Their" own citizens for reasons which are unclear at best, and they leave dozens if not hundreds of "smoking guns" laying around for every bored conspiracy kook with an internet connection to find, but evidently they're worried about violating FCC broadcast decency standards by showing dead bodies? "They" control the media with an iron fist, but they "aren't allowed" to show some teeth, guts, and eyeballs on TV? :boggled:

Never mind that most people with two sparking neurons to rub together fully realized that they were witnessing hundreds of people dying instantly when each plane crashed, and they also witnessed thousands more being burned alive and ground into mush as the buildings fell , on LIVE TV NO LESS, I guess the whole plot would just come undone if we didn't fake a crash out in the middle of Nowheresville, PA.

Frank Zappa was once quoted thusly: "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. And stupidity has a longer shelf life."

I guess he was in on it, too...

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Go here: http://www.loosechange911.com/
Click on Evidence/Pentagon, and scroll down until you see a photo that really, really doesn't belong.

I'd recommend screenshotting that and adding it to the Loosers say the stupidist things doc.

[The_Fire]

:jaw-dropp
CNN will just hire anyone these days.

Dear deities almighty and they didn't CATCH that?!
I wonder if Fox/Scully knows about that......Or their copyright holders.......

[Belz...]

Go here: http://www.loosechange911.com/
Click on Evidence/Pentagon, and scroll down until you see a photo that really, really doesn't belong.

I KNEW I had misplaced one of my denizens...

[Shrinker]

I'm just really surprised you talented guys haven't monkeyed with the signs...

Well, if you insist

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361744f494f08991f.gif

[T.A.M.]

ROFLMAO...OMG that is simply awesome...more...more...please

[realitybites]

[Guiness guys voice]

Brilliant!!

[/Guiness guys voice]

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Well, if you insist

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361744f494f08991f.gif

Mind if I post that over on my blog (I'll rehost)?

[negativ]

I'm just really surprised you talented guys haven't monkeyed with the signs...

Anyone have a forum account at somethingawful.com? I suspect they could do a masterful job of "modifying" them.

[Shrinker]

Mind if I post that over on my blog (I'll rehost)?

No problem, help yourselves to a copy.

[60hzxtl]

Nice work Shrinker!

I knew you guys could do it.

[CurtC]

Go here: http://www.loosechange911.com/
Click on Evidence/Pentagon, and scroll down until you see a photo that really, really doesn't belong.
The site was down for a while, but I just checked, and I don't see anything unusual. Which one are you referring to? Is it still there?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

The site was down for a while, but I just checked, and I don't see anything unusual. Which one are you referring to? Is it still there?

Look for this caption, "Cnn's Jamie McIntyre was reporting live from the Pentagon, and describes exactly how much of the plane is left..."

[defaultdotxbe]

if they fixed it the pic of Jamie McIntyre was replaced with the mutated tapeworm monster from the x-files (which IIRC escaped into NY's sewers, perhaps he was involved in 9/11)

[Kent1]

Look for this caption, "Cnn's Jamie McIntyre was reporting live from the Pentagon, and describes exactly how much of the plane is left..."
Honestly I think its because they're mad at him. Instead of using the deceptive edited clip, he used the full clip on air to debunk the CT theories attributed to him. Basicly Jamie made them look like fools on air. Which really isn't hard to do.

[T.A.M.]

Here is a question:

Has anyone ever attempted to set up a unique thread here on JREF, where only four people can post...A debator from the Debunking side, a debator for the "truth" side, and a moderator from each side?

Or perhaps just one moderator, a neutral one.

I mean you could pick any aspect of 9/11, get them to debate. Noone else can post, or mock, but we all get to watch.

Any thoughts?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Here is a question:

Has anyone ever attempted to set up a unique thread here on JREF, where only four people can post...A debator from the Debunking side, a debator for the "truth" side, and a moderator from each side?

Or perhaps just one moderator, a neutral one.

I mean you could pick any aspect of 9/11, get them to debate. Noone else can post, or mock, but we all get to watch.

Any thoughts?

fwiw they've done it here (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showforum=107). You can see how it's done and if it may work here.

[WildCat]

Here is a question:

Has anyone ever attempted to set up a unique thread here on JREF, where only four people can post...A debator from the Debunking side, a debator for the "truth" side, and a moderator from each side?

Or perhaps just one moderator, a neutral one.

I mean you could pick any aspect of 9/11, get them to debate. Noone else can post, or mock, but we all get to watch.

Any thoughts?
Yep, it was done here for DJLegacy's great debate w/ Gravy. When Gravy showed up, DJ ran like a sissy.

The Loosers are all cowards who run from facts and logic like a vampire from holy water and garlic. It will never happen.

[defaultdotxbe]

Yep, it was done here for DJLegacy's great debate w/ Gravy. When Gravy showed up, DJ ran like a sissy.

The Loosers are all cowards who run from facts and logic like a vampire from holy water and garlic. It will never happen.

its when any one of us can do a better job of defending "iside job" theories than they can

[T.A.M.]

Interesting. It seems to work for them (wolfshades link).

Of course, set rules would have to be set up and agreed upon. More importantly, you have to convince some of the "truthers" to come over and debate.

[T.A.M.]

Another point, would be finding an arbitor/referee. You would either need one from each side, which would be chaotic, or someone neutral enough to do the job unbiased. They also need to be extremely fluent in the art of debate.

Perhaps someone here at JREF who doesn't post in the Conspiracy Theory forums, but meets all teh requirements.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Another point, would be finding an arbitor/referee. You would either need one from each side, which would be chaotic, or someone neutral enough to do the job unbiased. They also need to be extremely fluent in the art of debate.

Perhaps someone here at JREF who doesn't post in the Conspiracy Theory forums, but meets all teh requirements.

Perhaps RandFan?

[T.A.M.]

I do not know him, but in you ropinion does he meet the criteria of a neutral arbitor/referee? As well, is he fluent enough in the art of debating, to call either side out when they "Call to authority", or "Strawman" etc...you know, the who debate terminology thing (which I am far from fluent in).

[WildCat]

I do not know him, but in you ropinion does he meet the criteria of a neutral arbitor/referee? As well, is he fluent enough in the art of debating, to call either side out when they "Call to authority", or "Strawman" etc...you know, the who debate terminology thing (which I am far from fluent in).
I call for Mr. T to be the mod and let him make a bloody mess out of whoever breaks the rules.

I pity the fool!

[defaultdotxbe]

problem is CTers probably wont accept anyone affiliated with JREF as "neutral" even if they have no opinion on 9/11

i doubt theyd even liek the idea of debating here, since they think the F in JREF is for fascism

[CurtC]

Look for this caption, "Cnn's Jamie McIntyre was reporting live from the Pentagon, and describes exactly how much of the plane is left..."
Ah, you have to click on Jamie's picture to see the unusual bit. At least I do; before I clicked, it's just a still of Jamie.

[Gravy]

Ah, you have to click on Jamie's picture to see the unusual bit. At least I do; before I clicked, it's just a still of Jamie.
Oh, sorry. For me the picture is always there.

[MarkyX]

A little update for anyone who is interested in the upcoming version of Screw Loose Change

I'm at the Flight 93 part right now and the movie is 2 hours and 30 minutes so far

[SRW]

Interesting. It seems to work for them (wolfshades link).

Of course, set rules would have to be set up and agreed upon. More importantly, you have to convince some of the "truthers" to come over and debate.

Oh man let me have at Merc where he cannot delete posts, yeah that will happen...

[MarkyX]

Can anyone point to me the 1500 human remains found at Flight 93? Because the Loose Change Viewer Guide link is down.

[Kent1]

Can anyone point to me the 1500 human remains found at Flight 93? Because the Loose Change Viewer Guide link is down.
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:iTB1HTKu5gIJ:www.unknownnews.org/06M04-M10d-309jh.html+1500+human+remains+found+at+Flight+93&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

[Pardalis]

Because the Loose Change Viewer Guide link is down.

It works for me. Did you go to the new link? See Gravy's sig.

[SRW]

http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Sep2006/Feature2.asp#top

If you trust catholics

[Pardalis]

What's wrong with Catholics? ;)

[gumboot]

Go here: http://www.loosechange911.com/
Click on Evidence/Pentagon, and scroll down until you see a photo that really, really doesn't belong.


What is that actually a picture of? On first glance I thought it was a photo of a victim from The Pentagon, but on second glance I guess not.

-Andrew

[defaultdotxbe]

What is that actually a picture of? On first glance I thought it was a photo of a victim from The Pentagon, but on second glance I guess not.

-Andrew

its from the x-files, that creature was mutated from a single celled organism in the reactor of a russian nuclear sub, at the end of the episode it (or at elast half of it) escaped into the sewers of new york


EDIT: found him Flukeman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flukeman)

[Gravy]

its from the x-files, that creature was mutated from a single celled organism in the reactor of a russian nuclear sub, at the end of the episode it (or at elast half of it) escaped into the sewers of new york
EDIT: found him Flukeman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flukeman)
Yet another caring gesture to the victims of 9/11.

[Gravy]

"The average score on the reading and math portions of the newly expanded SAT showed the most significant decline in 31 years, according to a report released today by the College Board on the performance of the high school class of 2006." NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/29/education/29cnd-sat.html?ex=1314504000&en=cadd14be6003b3c6&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

[Dog Town]

* arms flailing about* DOOOO Ovvveeerrrrrr!

[kookbreaker]

Well, if you insist

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361744f494f08991f.gif

Pwah! One of the signs should say 'Evil Dogs' just because that is probably next on their list of culprits.

[Belz...]

What's wrong with Catholics? ;)

Rituals.

[Blackadder_no]

Interesting... http://www.loosechange911.com/ seems to be down.

Conspiracy!

ETA: Yay! I can post links!

[realitybites]

I've noticed over on the LC forums that it appears the LTW crew (and their faithful apostles) have been doing their fair share of one-on-one interviews.

Knowing Avery's propensity for editing and quote-mining others' work, what problem will this pose for fact checking LC:FC? If he's the only one with the footage, he can edit/splice/mine all he wants and no one would be the wiser. One can always contact the interviewee and ask how accurate the claims are (whatever they may be), but unless that person publicly speaks out, it becomes a battle of he-said/he-said. Dylan's word vs. Gravy's (for example).

Granted there's a lot of that going on already, but I can see FC easily "proving" 9/11 was an inside job to a whole new crowd of naive 15 year-olds. Am I being paranoid? Giving Avery too much credit?

... Or do I just need to find a new hobby?

[60hzxtl]

Well, if you insist

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361744f494f08991f.gif

'twould be a real pity if somebody printed some of those up an salted them around where the loosers are going to congregate and put their posters up.

A real pity.

eta: Ninja's is sneaky!

eta: Hey I just noticed! Jason must have found the directions for his hat! He's got it on the right way at last!

[Gravy]

Well, if you insist

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361744f494f08991f.gif
This pleases me well.

Spent 5 hours on 5 pages of the LC Viewer Guide last night. Just zipping right along. The Final Cut may be the Final Straw for ol' Gravy.

[JamesB]

"The average score on the reading and math portions of the newly expanded SAT showed the most significant decline in 31 years, according to a report released today by the College Board on the performance of the high school class of 2006." NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/29/education/29cnd-sat.html?ex=1314504000&en=cadd14be6003b3c6&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

Maybe Dylan can get into film school now?

[realitybites]

Can't wait for the Loosers to start posting on this thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11836).

Gravy, congrats. You're already on it.

And technically I guess the rest of us are too. As we are all Gravy and Gravy is all of us.

[CurtC]

There's a little Gravy in all of us.

[mrfreeze]

I wish I had been more of an [rule8]hole while I was there so I could be on the list. All I wound up doing was throwing out some mild smart aleck comments that eventually got me banned anyway. This should be an interesting thread though!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

There's a little Gravy in all of us.

ew

[realitybites]

Reynolds and Wood are the first to pop up. I love it.

[Eos of the Eons]

Spielberg's worst, is lightyears ahead of anything Dylan could hope to create EOS.
? Why is EOS is in there? I love Spielberg and have no idea who Dylan is.

[Gravy]

Can't wait for the Loosers to start posting on this thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11836).

Gravy, congrats. You're already on it.

And technically I guess the rest of us are too. As we are all Gravy and Gravy is all of us.
Come to think of it, the "CIA-looking guy" I'm accused of always traveling with was Manny, who I met once and who hasn't posted here in months.

Geez, was I being handled?

My cell phone is making a buzzing noise.

My cat looks different.

I AM FREAKING OUT OVER HERE!

[delphi_ote]

... he is, without a doubt the greatest filmmaker of the last 2 generations.
Gross! You got some fanboy on me.

You'd take Speilberg over Hitchcock, Kubrick, Scorsese, Capra, DeMille, and Wells? You need to get some perspective!

[Dragon]

Come to think of it, the "CIA-looking guy" I'm accused of always traveling with was Manny, who I met once and who hasn't posted here in months.

Geez, was I being handled?

My cell phone is making a buzzing noise.

My cat looks different.

I AM FREAKING OUT OVER HERE!Strikes me that a guy or two in dark suits and ties could have some fun with the CTers ...

[Shrinker]

This pleases me well.

Spent 5 hours on 5 pages of the LC Viewer Guide last night. Just zipping right along. The Final Cut may be the Final Straw for ol' Gravy.

Be sure to save some evergy for LC Final Cut: Service Pack 1

[realitybites]

Strikes me that a guy or two in dark suits and ties could have some fun with the CTers ...
Men in dark suits? And ties?!!?!

IN THE FINANCIAL DISTRICT!?!?!?!?

A den of shills that is....

[Dragon]

Men in dark suits? And ties?!!?!

IN THE FINANCIAL DISTRICT!?!?!?!?

A den of shills that is....Yeah, but have you read their stuff about the Ground Zero demo? They really need a "paronoia" version of the exploding irony meter on their little forum.

[Shrinker]

I've noticed over on the LC forums that it appears the LTW crew (and their faithful apostles) have been doing their fair share of one-on-one interviews.

Knowing Avery's propensity for editing and quote-mining others' work, what problem will this pose for fact checking LC:FC? If he's the only one with the footage, he can edit/splice/mine all he wants and no one would be the wiser. One can always contact the interviewee and ask how accurate the claims are (whatever they may be), but unless that person publicly speaks out, it becomes a battle of he-said/he-said. Dylan's word vs. Gravy's (for example).

Granted there's a lot of that going on already, but I can see FC easily "proving" 9/11 was an inside job to a whole new crowd of naive 15 year-olds. Am I being paranoid? Giving Avery too much credit?

... Or do I just need to find a new hobby?

You're quite right. Avery posted the 'smorgasbord' video a while back which was complete unedited interviews (v. dull). Even the hardcore CTists interviewed made minor fumbles which Avery would be wise to edit out (assuming he's out to decieve). In those cases it would be pointless contacting the interviewee.

[ob986s]

Has anyone listened to this interview of JDX with Jack blood yesterday?

Here is an mp3 stream

http://www.pumpitout.com/audio/jackblood2906.mp3

I haven't listened to it yet, just starting now actually

with the "truthers" tearing themselves apart this may have been missed by many so I thought I should point it out in the main thread.

I have no idea if there is anything interesting or worth listening to but I think it is interesting that JDX is becoming a bit of a celeb in the "Truth" movement.

Jon

[realitybites]

Has anyone listened to this interview of JDX with Jack blood yesterday?

Here is an mp3 stream

http://www.pumpitout.com/audio/jackblood2906.mp3

I haven't listened to it yet, just starting now actually

with the "truthers" tearing themselves apart this may have been missed by many so I thought I should point it out in the main thread.

I have no idea if there is anything interesting or worth listening to but I think it is interesting that JDX is becoming a bit of a celeb in the "Truth" movement.

Jon
Thanks for the link Jon. I was trying to listen live yesterday, but the firewalls at work were being... well. Firewally.

[CurtC]

My cat looks different.

I AM FREAKING OUT OVER HERE!
Who was that nutcase (pre-9/11 conspiracies) who regularly fingerprinted his daughter, because he was afraid the CIA would substitute a fake?

I just looked it up - it was Charles Spiesel (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jimlie7.htm), one of Jim Garrison's star witnesses in the trial against Clay Shaw for conspiring to kill Kennedy. He was one of only two witnesses he had linking Shaw to the assassination, and the other (Perry Russo) completely recanted his account at the trial.

Garrison was preparing to put on the stand a witness who, apart from testifying that he had heard Shaw discussing assassinating Kennedy, was under the impression that the government broke into his house from time to time and substituted "dead ringers" for his children, who then spied on him. (To foil the fiends, he periodically fingerprinted his children.) He believed that he had been hypnotized at least 50 times against his will, and so on.

[jhunter1163]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11846

Pilots For 911 truth have analized the information from the flight data recorder of flight 77 and have determined that it was too high in the air to have hit the light poles, this contradicts the official story. I was informed by Johndoex to call the NTSB and ask them for their comment on this, here is the runaround I got..............


Phone call ( NTSB to FBI to Pentbomb team

So they "analized" the information, as in pulling it out of their....

[DavidJames]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11846

Pilots For 911 truth have analized the information from the flight data recorder of flight 77 and have determined that it was too high in the air to have hit the light poles, this contradicts the official story. I was informed by Johndoex to call the NTSB and ask them for their comment on this, here is the runaround I got..............


Phone call ( NTSB to FBI to Pentbomb team

So they "analized" the information, as in pulling it out of their....merc is convinced it was a "flyover". I love these guys.

[Gravy]

Strikes me that a guy or two in dark suits and ties could have some fun with the CTers ...
Indeed, but some men in white uniforms would be more appropriate.

It's sad, but there's hardly any joy in playing tricks on people who are constantly playing tricks on themselves. There's no intelligence branch I can think of pretending to be a member of that would be surprising to them.

Although ISI might be fun.

[CurtC]

Pilots For 911 truth have analized the information from the flight data recorder of flight 77 and have determined that it was too high in the air to have hit the light poles, this contradicts the official story. I was informed by Johndoex to call the NTSB and ask them for their comment on this, here is the runaround I got..............
"shure" is the poster over there who records phone his phone calls to different people, and basically harrasses them. I haven't listened to this one, but I did listen to his phone call to Ben Chertoff of Popular Mechanics.

Shure has all the charm of a stalker.

Here is a link to his call to the NTSB (http://www.pumpitout.com/phone_calls/77flightdatarecorder.mp3), for those who don't actually want to visit that forum.

[Hellbound]

*chuckle*

Pretend to be a member of Afghanistan'sor North Korea's intelligence agency...that'd suprise them :)

Or, just for "out there" factor, maybe Tibetan.

[Gravy]

merc is convinced it was a "flyover". I love these guys.
Merc is the one who had two LC threads going: one in which he castigated WTC no-planers for not believing all the eyewitness, and another in which he castigated people for believing the Pentagon eyewitnesses. It takes a lot of fertilizer to thrive in that barren LC soil.

[defaultdotxbe]

Can't wait for the Loosers to start posting on this thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11836).

Gravy, congrats. You're already on it.

And technically I guess the rest of us are too. As we are all Gravy and Gravy is all of us.

none of us shoudl be in there, we arent closet shills, we're all out of the closet and fah-LAMING!

[Pardalis]

[I] have no idea who Dylan is.

You don't know how lucky you are! :D

[DavidJames]

Merc is the one who had two LC threads going: one in which he castigated WTC no-planers for not believing all the eyewitness, and another in which he castigated people for believing the Pentagon eyewitnesses. It takes a lot of fertilizer to thrive in that barren LC soil.He's also the author of this gem I posted yesterday (emphasis mine)There is no evidence of a missile anywhere, not even to make the damage. Maybe this plane fired a missile or a drone as it passed over, or the trailer was prepositioned to fire one

[CurtC]

There's no intelligence branch I can think of pretending to be a member of that would be surprising to them.
If you want to highlight to the rest of the world how foolish they are, I think they skewer themselves the most when they associate with the Neo-Nazis such as American Free Press and Chris Bollyn.

So how could one dress up as a Mossad agent? A business suit, dark sunglasses, and a yarmulke (sp?)? A hanky with the Star of David, hanging out of your pocket? How do you "look jewish"?

Down here in Texas, the few jews we have (I went to high school with exactly one) tend to look like everyone else. It took me a while after I grew up to even understand the basic concept behind anti-semitism - as if someone is threatened by a smart, outgoing, but fairly nerdy guy.

Oooh, I just googled his name since I haven't heard from him in the 28 years since we graduated - he's on the Texas Senate Committee on Transportation & Homeland Security!

OMG!!111!!ONE!ONE111ELEVNTY-ONE!!1!

[Kent1]

A couple of new links that were e-mailed to me from the site owners.

A new blog
http://osamadiditgetalife.blogspot.com/

And a new UK site debunking Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin
http://www.jnani.org/mrking/writings/911/king911.htm

[jhunter1163]

He's also the author of this gem I posted yesterday (emphasis mine)
Originally Posted by merc
There is no evidence of a missile anywhere, not even to make the damage. Maybe this plane fired a missile or a drone as it passed over, or the trailer was prepositioned to fire one

The flying public could only WISH airliners were equipped with missiles.

Tower: Flight 584, you're going to have to fly a holding pattern for about 30 minutes.

584: No, I don't think so.

Tower: There's a lot of traffic ahead of you...

584: Flight 584, Fox One!

Tower: Wha?

(BOOOOOOOOM)

(Flight 584 lands uneventfully)

[Abbyas]

Has anyone listened to this interview of JDX with Jack blood yesterday?

Here is an mp3 stream

http://www.pumpitout.com/audio/jackblood2906.mp3


I heard it. I was that bored. JDX was very, very excited.

Didn't really say much. According to him, the NTSB says it was too high to hit the light poles. Apparantly the animation from the NTSB says 150 ft, but that's wrong for some reason. I couldn't follow a bunch of it.

The best were the commercials. Did you know that the best food to fight the New World Order is Enerfood? I didn't.

Also a product was advertised that would keep your kids from being rebellious and talking back. Spooky.

[defaultdotxbe]

Also a product was advertised that would keep your kids from being rebellious and talking back. Spooky.

flouride popsicles :cool:

[Stellafane]

...I think it is interesting that JDX is becoming a bit of a celeb in the "Truth" movement.

I bet you or I could become a bit of a celeb in the "Truth" movement inside of a week. Just pick some remotely plausible internet pose -- say a CIA agent coming clean, or a structural engineer -- start posting 100 times a day on the LC forum, and we'd be the toast of the town, rubbing elbows (or whatever) with Dylan and the boys in no time.

[chipmunk stew]

The best were the commercials. Did you know that the best food to fight the New World Order is Enerfood? I didn't.

Also a product was advertised that would keep your kids from being rebellious and talking back. Spooky.
If you want to hear some more great commercials, listen to an Alex Jones show. Marketing to paranoia is an artform unto itself. It would be great to compile the best of these--call it "Conspiracy Capitalists Speak"

[jon]

So how could one dress up as a Mossad agent? A business suit, dark sunglasses, and a yarmulke (sp?)? A hanky with the Star of David, hanging out of your pocket? How do you "look jewish"?

Down here in Texas, the few jews we have (I went to high school with exactly one) tend to look like everyone else.

But that's why our conspiracies are so effective - we do look just like everybody else ;)

If the aim's to embarass the loosers, you could try just going along dressed like (they might think) government agents dress. Talk a bit in a foreign accent of indeterminate origin, and I'd say there's a fair chance someone will assume you're with Mossad :D

[azazal]

I bet you or I could become a bit of a celeb in the "Truth" movement inside of a week. Just pick some remotely plausible internet pose -- say a CIA agent coming clean, or a structural engineer -- start posting 100 times a day on the LC forum, and we'd be the toast of the town, rubbing elbows (or whatever) with Dylan and the boys in no time.

You know, if I were single and the Toother movement was filled with hot, young female groopies....

[JamesB]

You know, if I were single and the Toother movement was filled with hot, young female groopies....

Well according to Vanity Fair, that is how Dylan met his girlfriend.

[defaultdotxbe]

But that's why our conspiracies are so effective - we do look just like everybody else ;)

If the aim's to embarass the loosers, you could try just going along dressed like (they might think) government agents dress. Talk a bit in a foreign accent of indeterminate origin, and I'd say there's a fair chance someone will assume you're with Mossad :D

dress like this

http://www.scoretrack.net/scifiles/cancerman.jpg

that "im secretly ruling the world" look on his face might take a while to get down

[Abbyas]

Not that hard to scare 'em.

I brought a buddy down to GZ to film stuff. Somebody thought he was Mossad.

He's Puerto Rican.

[Class]

I've been wanting to go to Ground Zero dressed like some sort of government agent for a while. Black suit and tie, sunglasses, and an earpiece with those curly lines going into my shirt. Get in range of the CTists and press down and hold the earpiece for 5-10 seconds, then nod your head and see their reactions.

And if anyone asks who you are, say that is classified information.

[defaultdotxbe]

i think adam sandler is a closet truther, look at all the deep intel he has on the crypto-jews...


http://www.lyrics007.com/Adam%20Sandler%20Lyrics/Chanukah%20Song%20Lyrics.html

http://www.lyrics007.com/Adam%20Sandler%20Lyrics/Chanukah%20Song%20Part%20II%20Lyrics.html

[chipmunk stew]

Not that hard to scare 'em.

I brought a buddy down to GZ to film stuff. Somebody thought he was Mossad.

He's Puerto Rican.
:confused: Why? Was he flicking his lighter in a celebratory gesture, or something?

[jon]

I've been wanting to go to Ground Zero dressed like some sort of government agent for a while. Black suit and tie, sunglasses, and an earpiece with those curly lines going into my shirt. Get in range of the CTists and press down and hold the earpiece for 5-10 seconds, then nod your head and see their reactions.

And if anyone asks who you are, say that is classified information.

Would be an interesting way to see how sincere they are about all this paranoia stuff. You know, say (just loudly enough for them to hear) 'permission to terminate target'...listen to the earpiece for a couple of secs...nod...smash small glass vial on ground...walk away saying 'targets will be inactivated within 24hrs' :D

[Abbyas]

Originally Posted by Abbyas
Not that hard to scare 'em.

I brought a buddy down to GZ to film stuff. Somebody thought he was Mossad.

He's Puerto Rican.

Why? Was he flicking his lighter in a celebratory gesture, or something?

Dunno. He was just running around controlling the banks and the media.

[kevin]

I will not say anything about the humor in taking a laser pointer. Nope, nope, nope, nope.

[chipmunk stew]

Dunno. He was just running around controlling the banks and the media.
BTW, what are you planning on doing with the footage? :)

[Abbyas]

BTW, what are you planning on doing with the footage?

911 Conspiracy Wars "drops" by september 11th. Editting is a pain. We're trying to do it so that people that have no idea about this stuff get the joke.

Afterwards I'll put out some more of the stuff on Youtube that the JREFers will appreciate.

[TK0001]

fwiw they've done it here (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showforum=107). You can see how it's done and if it may work here.

My sincere apologies for getting you hooked on that site, Wolfshade...

[Belz...]

584: Flight 584, Fox One!

Damn foxes.

[Belz...]

Not that hard to scare 'em.

I brought a buddy down to GZ to film stuff. Somebody thought he was Mossad.

He's Puerto Rican.

:wide-eyed

Some people's children...

[T.A.M.]

I've been wanting to go to Ground Zero dressed like some sort of government agent for a while. Black suit and tie, sunglasses, and an earpiece with those curly lines going into my shirt. Get in range of the CTists and press down and hold the earpiece for 5-10 seconds, then nod your head and see their reactions.

And if anyone asks who you are, say that is classified information.

Even better, once you are down their, dressed like that. Pretend to talk into your lapel, then look at your watch, then look up at the sky, then back to your watch, then to the sky, then watch them all freak out...lol

[Kent1]

NIST Responds to 9/11 Truthers

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
Some GOOD STUFF!!!:
From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely.

UL did not certify any steel as suggested. In fact, in U.S. practice, steel is not certified at all; rather structural assemblies are tested for their fire resistance rating in accordance with a standard procedure such as ASTM E 119 (see NCSTAR 1-6B). That the steel was “certified ... to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours” is simply not true.

9. If thick black smoke is characteristic of an oxygen-starved, lower temperature, less intense fire, why was thick black smoke exiting the WTC towers when the fires inside were supposed to be extremely hot?

Nearly all indoor large fires, including those of the principal combustibles in the WTC towers, produce large quantities of optically thick, dark smoke. This is because, at the locations where the actual burning is taking place, the oxygen is severely depleted and the combustibles are not completely oxidized to colorless carbon dioxide and water.

The visible part of fire smoke consists of small soot particles whose formation is favored by the incomplete combustion associated with oxygen-depleted burning. Once formed, the soot from the tower fires was rapidly pushed away from the fires into less hot regions of the building or directly to broken windows and breaks in the building exterior. At these lower temperatures, the soot could no longer burn away. Thus, people saw the thick dark smoke characteristic of burning under oxygen-depleted conditions.


11. Why do some photographs show a yellow stream of molten metal pouring down the side of WTC2 that NIST claims was aluminum from the crashed plane although aluminum burns with a white glow?

NIST reported (NCSTAR 1-5A) that just before 9:52 a.m., a bright spot appeared at the top of a window on the 80th floor of WTC 2, four windows removed from the east edge on the north face, followed by the flow of a glowing liquid. This flow lasted approximately four seconds before subsiding. Many such liquid flows were observed from near this location in the seven minutes leading up to the collapse of this tower. There is no evidence of similar molten liquid pouring out from another location in WTC 2 or from anywhere within WTC 1.

Photographs, and NIST simulations of the aircraft impact, show large piles of debris in the 80th and 81st floors of WTC 2 near the site where the glowing liquid eventually appeared. Much of this debris came from the aircraft itself and from the office furnishings that the aircraft pushed forward as it tunneled to this far end of the building. Large fires developed on these piles shortly after the aircraft impact and continued to burn in the area until the tower collapsed.

NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.

Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

My sincere apologies for getting you hooked on that site, Wolfshade...

If that apologie includes a pint of quality brewsky, I'll accept.

[60hzxtl]

I will not say anything about the humor in taking a laser pointer. Nope, nope, nope, nope.

Nope, nope nope, that's a felony in NYC.

But I do happen to have one of those very ear pieces you guys are referring to.

[Belz...]

Dunno. He was just running around controlling the banks and the media.

Ouch.

[kevin]

Nope, nope nope, that's a felony in NYC.


dude, we're the feds. since when do local laws apply to us?

[TK0001]

If that apologie includes a pint of quality brewsky, I'll accept.

Done and done.

Wanna meet at ground zero, say 9/11-ish?

[simakperrce]

No problem, help yourselves to a copy.

fantastic. any author? copyright info? Would like to post it as well.

[mrfreeze]

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick! Now there is a thread about how you go about getting the mentally ill on your side!

http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/011110A/http/s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11862

*edit* Oh and Canda is a fascist state now too. http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/011110A/http/s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11850

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Done and done.

Wanna meet at ground zero, say 9/11-ish?

I think my wife will put the kibosh on that day, it's our anniversary.

[Kent1]

They even talk about sulfur and the molten metal

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

12. Did the NIST investigation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite and sulfur (called thermate) "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."

NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

The responses to questions number 2, 4, 5 and 11 demonstrate why NIST concluded that there were no explosives or controlled demolition involved in the collapses of the WTC towers.

Furthermore, a very large quantity of thermite (a mixture of powdered or granular aluminum metal and powdered iron oxide that burns at extremely high temperatures when ignited) or another incendiary compound would have had to be placed on at least the number of columns damaged by the aircraft impact and weakened by the subsequent fires to bring down a tower. Thermite burns slowly relative to explosive materials and can require several minutes in contact with a massive steel section to heat it to a temperature that would result in substantial weakening. Separate from the WTC towers investigation, NIST researchers estimated that at least 0.13 pounds of thermite would be required to heat each pound of a steel section to approximately 700 degrees Celsius (the temperature at which steel weakens substantially). Therefore, while a thermite reaction can cut through large steel columns, many thousands of pounds of thermite would need to have been placed inconspicuously ahead of time, remotely ignited, and somehow held in direct contact with the surface of hundreds of massive structural components to weaken the building. This makes it an unlikely substance for achieving a controlled demolition.

Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions.

13. Why did the NIST investigation not consider reports of molten steel in the wreckage
from the WTC towers?

NIST investigators and experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY)—who inspected the WTC steel at the WTC site and the salvage yards—found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse. The condition of the steel in the wreckage of the WTC towers (i.e., whether it was in a molten state or not) was irrelevant to the investigation of the collapse since it does not provide any conclusive information on the condition of the steel when the WTC towers were standing.

NIST considered the damage to the steel structure and its fireproofing caused by the aircraft impact and the subsequent fires when the buildings were still standing since that damage was responsible for initiating the collapse of the WTC towers.

Under certain circumstances it is conceivable for some of the steel in the wreckage to have melted after the buildings collapsed. Any molten steel in the wreckage was more likely due to the high temperature resulting from long exposure to combustion within the pile than to short exposure to fires or explosions while the buildings were standing.

They also state the report on WTC 7 wont be out until early 2007.

Expect this document to be attacked.

[TK0001]

I think my wife will put the kibosh on that day, it's our anniversary.

Yikes. Bummer of an anniversary date...

[JamesB]

NIST Responds to 9/11 Truthers

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
Some GOOD STUFF!!!:
From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely.

UL did not certify any steel as suggested. In fact, in U.S. practice, steel is not certified at all; rather structural assemblies are tested for their fire resistance rating in accordance with a standard procedure such as ASTM E 119 (see NCSTAR 1-6B). That the steel was “certified ... to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours” is simply not true.

9. If thick black smoke is characteristic of an oxygen-starved, lower temperature, less intense fire, why was thick black smoke exiting the WTC towers when the fires inside were supposed to be extremely hot?

Nearly all indoor large fires, including those of the principal combustibles in the WTC towers, produce large quantities of optically thick, dark smoke. This is because, at the locations where the actual burning is taking place, the oxygen is severely depleted and the combustibles are not completely oxidized to colorless carbon dioxide and water.

The visible part of fire smoke consists of small soot particles whose formation is favored by the incomplete combustion associated with oxygen-depleted burning. Once formed, the soot from the tower fires was rapidly pushed away from the fires into less hot regions of the building or directly to broken windows and breaks in the building exterior. At these lower temperatures, the soot could no longer burn away. Thus, people saw the thick dark smoke characteristic of burning under oxygen-depleted conditions.


11. Why do some photographs show a yellow stream of molten metal pouring down the side of WTC2 that NIST claims was aluminum from the crashed plane although aluminum burns with a white glow?

NIST reported (NCSTAR 1-5A) that just before 9:52 a.m., a bright spot appeared at the top of a window on the 80th floor of WTC 2, four windows removed from the east edge on the north face, followed by the flow of a glowing liquid. This flow lasted approximately four seconds before subsiding. Many such liquid flows were observed from near this location in the seven minutes leading up to the collapse of this tower. There is no evidence of similar molten liquid pouring out from another location in WTC 2 or from anywhere within WTC 1.

Photographs, and NIST simulations of the aircraft impact, show large piles of debris in the 80th and 81st floors of WTC 2 near the site where the glowing liquid eventually appeared. Much of this debris came from the aircraft itself and from the office furnishings that the aircraft pushed forward as it tunneled to this far end of the building. Large fires developed on these piles shortly after the aircraft impact and continued to burn in the area until the tower collapsed.

NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.

Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface.

Good stuff. A certain professor in Utah will not like this.

NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

The responses to questions number 2, 4, 5 and 11 demonstrate why NIST concluded that there were no explosives or controlled demolition involved in the collapses of the WTC towers.

Furthermore, a very large quantity of thermite (a mixture of powdered or granular aluminum metal and powdered iron oxide that burns at extremely high temperatures when ignited) or another incendiary compound would have had to be placed on at least the number of columns damaged by the aircraft impact and weakened by the subsequent fires to bring down a tower. Thermite burns slowly relative to explosive materials and can require several minutes in contact with a massive steel section to heat it to a temperature that would result in substantial weakening. Separate from the WTC towers investigation, NIST researchers estimated that at least 0.13 pounds of thermite would be required to heat each pound of a steel section to approximately 700 degrees Celsius (the temperature at which steel weakens substantially). Therefore, while a thermite reaction can cut through large steel columns, many thousands of pounds of thermite would need to have been placed inconspicuously ahead of time, remotely ignited, and somehow held in direct contact with the surface of hundreds of massive structural components to weaken the building. This makes it an unlikely substance for achieving a controlled demolition.

Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Yikes. Bummer of an anniversary date...

Not at all. Wife and I chose it two years ago intentionally, so we would have something positive to remember on that date. (well, that, and that was the only date in Sept available where we were having the reception)

[Shrinker]

fantastic. any author? copyright info? Would like to post it as well.

I think claiming copyright would be a little cheeky. No need to bother with credits or anything. Post it where you like, and maybe give us a link if it generates any interesting reactions.

[Kent1]

I still can't believe Jones uses sulfer. If the guy had just e-mailed Barnett early on, he wouldn't be in this mess.
The aluminum is also becoming a big problem for Jones even within the truth movement.

I have no doubt however Jones and Co. will come up with a reply.

[TK0001]

Not at all. Wife and I chose it two years ago intentionally, so we would have something positive to remember on that date. (well, that, and that was the only date in Sept available where we were having the reception)

Ah. Well then, kickass anniversary date, yo!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I still can't believe Jones uses sulfer. If the guy had just e-mailed Barnett early on, he wouldn't be in this mess.
The aluminum is also becoming a big problem for Jones even within the truth movement.

I have no doubt however Jones and Co. will come up with a reply.

Quite. Aluminum, accounted for by the building itself. Sulpher, accounted for by drywall, etc.

[Kent1]

Quite. Aluminum, accounted for by the building itself. Sulpher, accounted for by drywall, etc.
The yellow/orange aluminum flow was from the airplane debris.

Boy, the more I look this doc. over, the more I see they are going to be steaming mad.

[TK0001]

The yellow/orange aluminum flow was from the airplane debris.

Boy, the more I look this doc. over, the more I see they are going to be steaming mad.

Nah, the NIST is just a buncha power-mongering JOOS....

[jhunter1163]

FWIW, I met my wife in an Internet chatroom on 9/11 as I was desperately scanning for news. Out of the worst of days, the best things come.

[TK0001]

5. Why were two distinct spikes—one for each tower—seen in seismic records before the towers collapsed? Isn't this indicative of an explosion occurring in each tower?
The seismic spikes for the collapse of the WTC Towers are the result of debris from the collapsing towers impacting the ground. The spikes began approximately 10 seconds after the times for the start of each building’s collapse and continued for approximately 15 seconds. There were no seismic signals that occurred prior to the initiation of the collapse of either tower. The seismic record contains no evidence that would indicate explosions occurring prior to the collapse of the towers.



Clearly the NIST didn't see the footage of that one chick's camera (on a tripod no less!!@#) shaking 12 seconds prior to collapse. This whole investigation is clearly a sham.


...carried out by the joos...

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

[QUOTE=Darat;1812789]Will this never end?

...QUOTE]

No.



;)

[azazal]

Well according to Vanity Fair, that is how Dylan met his girlfriend.

I thought she was a psycho stalker chick, if so that is so not hot

[defaultdotxbe]

I thought she was a psycho stalker chick, if so that is so not hot

well, yeah, what do you expect? shes a troother!

[Gravy]

NIST Responds to 9/11 Truthers

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
Juicy! Good find, Kent1

[delphi_ote]

Juicy! Good find, Kent1
It took them long enough to get out a response, but is it damn good!

[T.A.M.]

FWIW, I met my wife in an Internet chatroom on 9/11 as I was desperately scanning for news. Out of the worst of days, the best things come.

That so screams "Chick Flick" Screenplay...can I use it? lol

"You've got 9/11 mail"

[CurtC]

The best were the commercials. Did you know that the best food to fight the New World Order is Enerfood? I didn't.
I was planning to comment on the commercials too. I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, I just heard that Enerfood part. It's nature's superfood!

My favorite was the ad that starts off saying, you know how a soprano singer can shatter a wine glass with her voice? Their product does that to disease in your body. It's called "resonance." It hits the resonant frequency of disease.

That, and the "UFO Store."

A while ago, I commented on the ads in Jim Fetzer's show. I'm starting to see a correlation.

[Mancman]

I was planning to comment on the commercials too. I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, I just heard that Enerfood part. It's nature's superfood!

My favorite was the ad that starts off saying, you know how a soprano singer can shatter a wine glass with her voice? Their product does that to disease in your body. It's called "resonance." It hits the resonant frequency of disease.

That, and the "UFO Store."

A while ago, I commented on the ads in Jim Fetzer's show. I'm starting to see a correlation.

How about Alex Jones advertising soap? Tres amusant.

[rwguinn]

Juicy! Good find, Kent1

As an interesting to me, at least) aside, what these young "Troofers" fail to realize is that they have, on their desks (or possibly in their laps), as much, if not more, computing power than existed in 1960--total!
By comparison with todays standards, the Space Shuttle (STS) was designed on "the back of an envelope"
This, in my opinion, taint's their worldview--they can't believe that people could actually design and build without computer help, and that the norm today wasn't always the case.

[MarkyX]

Almost done with Screw Loose Change.

Anyone have any visual evidence (including web pages I can screenshot) that show some of the key members of the 9/11 Deniers being very, very anti-semite, neo-nazi, holocaust deniers, or other horrible things?

I'm trying to find a sound byte with Alex Jones saying how all Americans have become stupid and so forth.

[JamesB]

Almost done with Screw Loose Change.

Anyone have any visual evidence (including web pages I can screenshot) that show some of the key members of the 9/11 Deniers being very, very anti-semite, neo-nazi, holocaust deniers, or other horrible things?

I'm trying to find a sound byte with Alex Jones saying how all Americans have become stupid and so forth.

This is a little more subtle, but if you want audio, they runs ads for the American Free Press during Fetzer's radio program. Run that along with the ADL statement on Wilis Carto.

[StoneWT]

Nah, the NIST is just a buncha power-mongering JOOS....


Puerto Rican JOOS...

[jhunter1163]

That so screams "Chick Flick" Screenplay...can I use it? lol

"You've got 9/11 mail"

Sure, go ahead. But if it actually gets made I want a cut.. LOL

[T.A.M.]

how does 5% plus red carpet for you and your wife at the world premiere sound?

:)

[jhunter1163]

Go for it. See you there.. LOL

[kevin]

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm


Good find! I notice they continue to cover up the existance of the concrete core. those bastards.

[DavidJames]

Some quotes from LC require no additional comments

...What made me think of this first of all is ballistic research that I've seen in various movie scripts...

The Pentagon forum thread titled "A Hypothetical For You To Consider"

[kevin]

It took them long enough to get out a response, but is it damn good!

they're engineers. time has no meaning to them. but it'll be right when it gets there.

[Regnad Kcin]

...The best were the commercials. Did you know that the best food to fight the New World Order is Enerfood? I didn't.What, not Soylent Green?

[Abbyas]

What, not Soylent Green?

Enerfood is People! PEOPLE!!

[T.A.M.]

Soylent Green...

Great concept turned into a B movie...such a waste.

[Jennie C.]

Hi, me again, still slogging away at the thread, into last May now. And giggling endlessly over Geggy.

From the video (LC2E), and also mentioned by Geggy, but I didn't grab the quote is a reference to the "hermetically sealed" elevator shafts that had no air, so how-in-the-heck could a fire reach the lobby.

Umm, hermetically sealed doesn't mean a vacuum, I don't think?? Not to mention, I've never seen an elevator that didn't have about a 1-1/2 inch gap between the elevator and the doorway. Are they implying everyone holds their breath.

Maybe the claustrophobes do, but in a 110-story building, that could be dangerous.

This seemed to me to be (oneuvthe) lamest claims in the video OR the LC'er stuff I've read. But I have hopes I'll find something even lamer.

[jhunter1163]

Wasn't Epstein on "Welcome Back Kotter" a Puerto Rican Joo?

It was on ABC, a major MSM outlet, no doubt secretly controlled by the Joos..
no doubt planting the seeds for acceptance of the Mossad takeover among the Latino community as far back as the late '70s.

Was that sufficiently paranoid?

[jhunter1163]

Jennie:

Slog on. You won't be disappointed.

John

[Abbyas]

Wasn't Epstein on "Welcome Back Kotter" a Puerto Rican Joo?

It was on ABC, a major MSM outlet, no doubt secretly controlled by the Joos..
no doubt planting the seeds for acceptance of the Mossad takeover among the Latino community as far back as the late '70s.

Was that sufficiently paranoid?

Oh yeah!

That explains the gefelte fish empenadas.

[WildCat]

Oh yeah!

That explains the gefelte fish empenadas.
And all the notes signed "(your friend's name)'s mother".

[defaultdotxbe]

Hi, me again, still slogging away at the thread, into last May now. And giggling endlessly over Geggy.

From the video (LC2E), and also mentioned by Geggy, but I didn't grab the quote is a reference to the "hermetically sealed" elevator shafts that had no air, so how-in-the-heck could a fire reach the lobby.

Umm, hermetically sealed doesn't mean a vacuum, I don't think?? Not to mention, I've never seen an elevator that didn't have about a 1-1/2 inch gap between the elevator and the doorway. Are they implying everyone holds their breath.

Maybe the claustrophobes do, but in a 110-story building, that could be dangerous.

This seemed to me to be (oneuvthe) lamest claims in the video OR the LC'er stuff I've read. But I have hopes I'll find something even lamer.

in addition, if jet fuel got into the elevator shafts they were either

A: not hermetically sealed to begin with
B: damaged by the impact with at least 1 hole large enough for significant amounts fo jet fuel to get in

[rwguinn]

in addition, if jet fuel got into the elevator shafts they were either

A: not hermetically sealed to begin with
B: damaged by the impact with at least 1 hole large enough for significant amounts fo jet fuel to get in
and:
nobody was getting on of off an elevator on any of those floors (Doors were shut!) at the time.

[Darth Rotor]

Wasn't Epstein on "Welcome Back Kotter" a Puerto Rican Joo?

It was on ABC, a major MSM outlet, no doubt secretly controlled by the Joos..
no doubt planting the seeds for acceptance of the Mossad takeover among the Latino community as far back as the late '70s.

Was that sufficiently paranoid?
Gabe Kaplan is. So what?

DR

[jhunter1163]

So that's TWO Joos on one show! Admittedly, one of them is fictional, but still.. methinks I smell a CONSPIRACY...

[Thitical Crinker]

I have been lurking in this thread from the beginning and just wanted to say that you guys and gals have kicked loads of truthers ass. I am proud to be a silent member of this fine community.

Ran across a video of engineers talking about the wtc 7 collapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1r2cX225EQ&NR

Thought it may be useful in this fight.

[MarkyX]

Anyone have the police report on the Chris Bollyn assault?

[Eos of the Eons]

Chris Bollyn sounds like a raving nutcase, or am I being too hasty in my judgement?

[defaultdotxbe]

Anyone have the police report on the Chris Bollyn assault?

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2725/bollyn1nk2.jpg :D

[Kent1]

Here's another interesting find. Steve Spak has a new slide show at his website which shows some interesting new photos. He has a new neg of the WTC7 damage.
Looks like the southside damage photo he gave us was REALLY cropped.
Check out the full image here. With a couple other interesting photos.
I'm hoping to get a better image from him soon.
http://www.stevespak.com/
http://www.dotphoto.com/Flashtool/GuestViewShow.asp?Speed=h&SID=106345

[Brainster]

Chris Bollyn sounds like a raving nutcase, or am I being too hasty in my judgement?

That's his chief qualification to write for American Free Press.

[Brainster]

I have been lurking in this thread from the beginning and just wanted to say that you guys and gals have kicked loads of truthers ass. I am proud to be a silent member of this fine community.

Ran across a video of engineers talking about the wtc 7 collapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1r2cX225EQ&NR

Thought it may be useful in this fight.

Nice, thanks! I had to laugh at the comment of the guy who posted it though:

Watch the History Channel contradict themselves when they say nobody was killed when WTC7 collapsed because they had plenty of time to evacuate beforehand, but then the remains couldn't be examined because it had to be removed quickly to rescue survivors.

So now the History Channel is in on the coverup! (Quick, somebody tell the History Channel Australia!)

[mrfreeze]

So now the History Channel is in on the coverup! (Quick, somebody tell the History Channel Australia!)

Actually they are wary that the whole "Loose Change being shown on the History Channel" is a trick by us to laugh at them.
http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/011110A/http/s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11805

[LashL]

Well, if you insist

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361744f494f08991f.gif

Excellent work, Shrinker!

[LashL]

I KNEW I had misplaced one of my denizens...

Hmph. I can't see the photo, perhaps they've removed it since they read about it here at JREF :)

On the up side, though, I sure got a kick out of the following statement on the loose change site - one of the very, very few pieces of truth I've ever seen them write:

We have done nothing extraordinary in terms of research.

Of course, had they refrained from the use of the word "extraordinary", it would have been even more honest and true.

[EvilBiker]

they're engineers. time has no meaning to them. but it'll be right when it gets there.

Snagged!

So you've had dealings with "us" then?

:)

[delphi_ote]

Apparently, I've finally been banned from Loose Change boards. My talk of polite discussion apparently didn't go over very well with the mods.

But a suprising number of tolerant posters were actually sticking up for me. I wish I could've talked to them a bit longer. That would've been a very interesting discussion.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

If that apologie includes a pint of quality brewsky, I'll accept.

I'm sorry, but after the latest round of being bukkaked by stupid over there, the cost has gone up to a ponykeg. :boggled:

[gumboot]

Gross! You got some fanboy on me.

You'd take Speilberg over Hitchcock, Kubrick, Scorsese, Capra, DeMille, and Wells? You need to get some perspective!


I would. Easy. In fact Kubrick even acknowledge Spielberg's superior skills by begging him to do A.I. (Spielberg refused, but agreed to write the screenplay and help out).

-Andrew

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Check out the top of the ST911 site. Jones is asserting his power

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).

--Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower



Respect my authoritay!

http://www.tonyrogers.com/news/images/cartman_cop.jpg


Oops... I missed this one by about 30 pages.

Anyway, here's the extra bit that JamesB sort of missed.

He's absolutely right about Jones laying claim to a certain type of authroity, but it's not that of the Dept. of Agriculture. After he left government service at the end of the Eisenhower administration, Ezra Taft Benson returned to full time service in the mormon church. At the time of his appointment to the presidental cabinet, he was already a member of the Quorum of The Twelve, the ruling body of the LDS church. In 1985, he became the prophet and highest mortal authority in the church.

To the average Joe, Professor Jones is making an obscure political reference. What he is really doing, is placing himself on the right hand of the right hand of God.

Not that any of you would be suprised at this, we all knew already that Jones is an arrogant schmuck.

[mrfreeze]

I would. Easy. In fact Kubrick even acknowledge Spielberg's superior skills by begging him to do A.I. (Spielberg refused, but agreed to write the screenplay and help out).

-Andrew

So wait, that means I can still blame Spielburg for that piece of [rule8] add on at the end that totally ruined the ending right? Either that or Kubrick had alzheimers or something that made him go crazy and tack that on right??

[gumboot]

So wait, that means I can still blame Spielburg for that piece of [rule8] add on at the end that totally ruined the ending right? Either that or Kubrick had alzheimers or something that made him go crazy and tack that on right??


Who knows. Maybe Kubrick had that in his original story, maybe he didn't. Spielberg is the only person alive who would know. Having said that, Kubrick was a little nuts about this project so maybe... (he insisted on communicating purely via a fax that he kept hidden in his wardrobe. Spielberg had to have his own "secret" dedicated fax hidden away somewhere too) This went on for a good decade.

-Andrew

[pgwenthold]

Puerto Rican JOOS...

Welcome Back, Kotter reference. Very nice.

[mrfreeze]

I will continue to assume that the ending was an add by Spielburg then. If only because I have yet to see Kubrick do a happy ending, and that really seemed tacked on to give a semi-happy ending. That and the whole aliens thing out of left field.

[gumboot]

I will continue to assume that the ending was an add by Spielburg then. If only because I have yet to see Kubrick do a happy ending, and that really seemed tacked on to give a semi-happy ending. That and the whole aliens thing out of left field.


:confused: What aliens?

Kubrick had never done a story anything like that, hence why he wanted Spielberg to do it - because Kubrick didn't know how to do a fairytale. Fairy tales usually have happy endings.

You are right of course, it does feel tacked on. And there's a pretty good chance it is added on. But whether Spielberg added it, or whether Kubrick did, we may never know.

-Andrew

[brodski]

:confused: What aliens?

Kubrick had never done a story anything like that, hence why he wanted Spielberg to do it - because Kubrick didn't know how to do a fairytale. Fairy tales usually have happy endings.

You are right of course, it does feel tacked on. And there's a pretty good chance it is added on. But whether Spielberg added it, or whether Kubrick did, we may never know.

-Andrew
I thought that Dr Strangelove had a happy ending, but the I am a misanthropic bugger.

[gumboot]

I thought that Dr Strangelove had a happy ending, but the I am a misanthropic bugger.

I think it depends how you define "happy". Under certain conditions, I'd say most of his films had happy endings.

-Andrew

[mrfreeze]

:confused: What aliens?

Kubrick had never done a story anything like that, hence why he wanted Spielberg to do it - because Kubrick didn't know how to do a fairytale. Fairy tales usually have happy endings.

You are right of course, it does feel tacked on. And there's a pretty good chance it is added on. But whether Spielberg added it, or whether Kubrick did, we may never know.

-Andrew


Sorry they are "Super Robots". Although it seems that they were made using ideas for the aliens from Close Encounters that never got made. I actually thought those were aliens all this time, at least super robots aren't quite as bad.

[realitybites]

So wait, that means I can still blame Spielburg for that piece of [rule8] add on at the end that totally ruined the ending right? Either that or Kubrick had alzheimers or something that made him go crazy and tack that on right??
Ruining the ending implies that the 17 hours of mind-numbing film before that was actually not all that mind-numbing. That was not the case.

I had never contemplated suicide during a Spielberg flick before A.I. And that talking fabric softener bear can go straight to hell and die.

And yes, my morning's going just fine. Why do you ask?

[60hzxtl]

And that talking fabric softener bear can go straight to hell and die.





HEY! His puppeteer, Noel was a friend of mine!

[realitybites]

HEY! His puppeteer, Noel was a friend of mine!
Noel's fine. I have no problem with Noel.

My beef is with Snuggles.

[kevin]

Noel's fine. I have no problem with Noel.

My beef is with Snuggles.

I guarantee this will offend someone so if you're easily offended don't watch. It's "Cuddles" the fabric softener bear on robot chicken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU7Gnp-ykt8

[MarkyX]

Hey guys,

anyone know a good movie merger program?

[Belz...]

Sorry they are "Super Robots". Although it seems that they were made using ideas for the aliens from Close Encounters that never got made. I actually thought those were aliens all this time, at least super robots aren't quite as bad.

WHAT ? Super-robots are the coolest things in the universe.

Grendizer, GO!

[JamesB]

Oops... I missed this one by about 30 pages.

Anyway, here's the extra bit that JamesB sort of missed.

He's absolutely right about Jones laying claim to a certain type of authroity, but it's not that of the Dept. of Agriculture. After he left government service at the end of the Eisenhower administration, Ezra Taft Benson returned to full time service in the mormon church. At the time of his appointment to the presidental cabinet, he was already a member of the Quorum of The Twelve, the ruling body of the LDS church. In 1985, he became the prophet and highest mortal authority in the church.

To the average Joe, Professor Jones is making an obscure political reference. What he is really doing, is placing himself on the right hand of the right hand of God.

Not that any of you would be suprised at this, we all knew already that Jones is an arrogant schmuck.

I didn't "miss" that, that was my point. I was wondering if anyone else would make the connection. Why else would someone be quoting an obscure Secretary of Agriculture? Obviously Jones put that up because of his religious beliefs.

[realitybites]

I guarantee this will offend someone so if you're easily offended don't watch. It's "Cuddles" the fabric softener bear on robot chicken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU7Gnp-ykt8
Oh. My. God.

... That was hilarious.

[brumsen]

To the average Joe, Professor Jones is making an obscure political reference. What he is really doing, is placing himself on the right hand of the right hand of God.

I didn't "miss" that, that was my point. I was wondering if anyone else would make the connection. Why else would someone be quoting an obscure Secretary of Agriculture? Obviously Jones put that up because of his religious beliefs.

OK - so what are we talking about here.

Is it about: who has control of the Scholars and its webpage? I agree that for the reasons given, it is likely that Jones has had a hand in this quote at least.

Or is it about: why did he pick that quote? Because of his religious beliefs. Or perhaps because of the perspective in which he sees what he's doing, informed by those religious beliefs. In other words, his take on the morality of what he's doing.
But aren't we dangerously close to ad hominem arguments here? "Look at the rabidly religious arrogant person Jones is... he must therefore be doing bad science".
I hope that this is not what was intended.

[kevin]

Hey guys,

anyone know a good movie merger program?

I've used the Mac version of this:
http://www.squared5.com/

haven't tried the Windows version. It'll merge MPEGs as well as split them. You may need to do a timecode repair after merging two (or more) MPEGs.

[Mancman]

Forget bukkake, how about a torrential downpour of stupidity?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11643

[delphi_ote]

I would. Easy. In fact Kubrick even acknowledge Spielberg's superior skills by begging him to do A.I. (Spielberg refused, but agreed to write the screenplay and help out).
Not exactly.
I thought he was out of his mind. I felt he was giving up one of the best stories that I felt he had ever told. I immediately began talking him back into directing it, but he was adamant that I do it. He said this story is closer to your sensibilities than my own. He never gave me any other reason.
Also, Kubrick wanted still wanted to produce the film. He wanted to work with Spielberg.

They are different directors with different styles. The sad reality is that Spielberg just didn't have it in him to turn Kubrick's storyboards into a great film.

[Belz...]

Forget bukkake, how about a torrential downpour of stupidity?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11643

I'm still wondering how these people manage to breathe properly.

[Belz...]

Not exactly.

Also, Kubrick wanted still wanted to produce the film. He wanted to work with Spielberg.

They are different directors with different styles. The sad reality is that Spielberg just didn't have it in him to turn Kubrick's storyboards into a great film.

Not to derail further, Delphi, but, personally, I haven't seen Kubrick turn one of his storyboards into a great film.