Loose Change - Part IV

[kevin]

Uh, no. As a film maker for 20+ years, that is not what this means. Otherwise the stock footage business has just been put out of business.

The article pertains to use of film about historical matters in a documentary setting only. The stock footage business would not be affected because the footage isn't typically of an actual historical event.

For example, a documentary about the kennedy assination might be able to use short clips from the Zapruder film, but Oliver Stone has to pay.

Stock footage in a documentary would still need to be paid for because most likely it isn't directly about the event.

A more interesting example is the documentary OutFoxed. They paid Fox for none of the clips used in the film using them all under fair use.
http://www.outfoxed.org/

http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/002018.shtml

[JamesB]

A kudo for MarkyX for making the SF Chronicle.

What sets "Loose Change" apart from other Sept. 11 works is that it's visually appealing, slickly edited (with hip music) and free to watch on the internet video site YouTube. It has an anti-authoritarian edge (Avery is 22 years old) that might appeal to someone who admires Michael Moore or Jon Stewart. The film has inspired a critical response, "Screw Loose Change," which repackages Avery's film with rebuttals interspersed.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/09/03/INGR0KRCBA1.DTL

I knew we should have trademarked the Screw Loose Change name! :D

[MarkyX]

Just in time for the YouTube upload..

still waiting for those confirmations.

[MarkyX]

Just in time for the YouTube upload..

Still waiting for those confirmations.

[MarkyX]

An interesting email...


Mark thank you so much, I just wanted to say that Loose Change is the devil, you are truly doing gods work. God bless you, God bless W (my commander in chief), and God bless all the little tiny itty bitty American sheep following our God and Leader with such blind blissful obedience. AMEN.

Mark, I think your work is great. With more people like you opening peoples eyes to what really happened on that terrible day the future of American glory is nearly assured. If we could just reach out to everyone across the world they could all see it our way. I couldn't imagine what kind of twisted degenerate hippie mongrel would think that America could stand to gain from such a tragedy. I mean it's not like our economy has a heavy dependence on defense industies or a vested interest in the growth of the military industrial complex, or even would stand to gain personally from financial investments in those companies. Obviously the real enemies are Arabs, everyone knows that they hate freedom. I mean, President Bush has said so at least four times. Side note, if those dirty Arabs hate freedom so much, they are really gonna love living in martial law in Iraq or in the prisons of Guantanamo or Abu Grahib, I can't imagine any places less free than that, uh-oh maybe we are playing right in to there hands. Ah I digress. Our type of blind sheeplike ignorance really brings me a great shallow comfort that I wish we could share with more hard working Americans.

P.S. Do you have any videos that can help me disprove Global Warming? I've been having problems with some real idiot co-workers that seem to think that humans and emissions from our cars and factories are contributing to an excess of CO2 and SO2 in the atmosphere. As If these pollution conspiracies weren't enough they are saying that the CO2 is creating a hole in the ozone which is going to cause the worlds temperature to rise and the polar ice caps to melt leading to extreme sea level rise and a myriad of intense weather and climate changes. It really is ridiculous, Also someone was trying to tell me that Jesus Christ isn't the one true savior of humanity! That heathen is really in for a suprise. Do you have any movies that could help me show the holes in his Buddhist beliefs? You would think he would be able to see through silly ideas like Karma and reincarnation but he insists on being content with his own beliefs, what a fool. Moses didn't part the red sea so idiots like this could go around preaching there little heebie-jeebie mumbo jumbo cult garbage.


My response


Thank you for your donation to the recycle bin.

[JamesB]

Just in time for the YouTube upload..

Still waiting for those confirmations.

Well that just shows how you are in cahoots with the mainstream media, through our master and commander Gravy. Or am I Gravy? I forget.

[MarkyX]

Well that just shows how you are in cahoots with the mainstream media, through our master and commander Gravy. Or am I Gravy? I forget.

Duuude...I'm gravy. I'm more Gravy than you are.

I have Mark in my name. You have James.

Freaking poser.

[JamesB]

Duuude...I'm gravy. I'm more Gravy than you are.

I have Mark in my name. You have James.

Freaking poser.

But Mark Roberts is not his real name. His real name is John Roberts, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and my parents were thinking of naming me John before they decided on James, so that makes me more Gravy.

[Blackadder_no]

Just barely begun watching "Screw Loose Change - Not Freakin' Again Edition" (part 6 I think), and I just have to comment on one thing, MarkyX. When you say "When a 225,000 pound missile going over 500 mph hits reinforced concrete, you expect it to be quiet?!", I figure the CTs will be all over it claiming that you had a "Freudian slip" and admitted it was a missile (the military weapon type). I think it's better to use "aircraft" instead.

[jhunter1163]

Hey, my name actually is John. Does that make me Gravy too?

[MarkyX]

Just barely begun watching "Screw Loose Change - Not Freakin' Again Edition" (part 6 I think), and I just have to comment on one thing, MarkyX. When you say "When a 225,000 pound missile going over 500 mph hits reinforced concrete, you expect it to be quiet?!", I figure the CTs will be all over it claiming that you had a "Freudian slip" and admitted it was a missile (the military weapon type). I think it's better to use "aircraft" instead.

The plane was used by a missile, I call it a missile.

It's too late now anyways.

[Mancman]

Apparently new footage of the 1st WTC crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8KBiym4Yd8

[60hzxtl]

Apparently new footage of the 1st WTC crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8KBiym4Yd8

Looks like a security cam; 1 frame per whatever.

(Opens up the woo valve full blast for the ct'ers.)

[T.A.M.]

Looks more like 4-5 frames per day...

Here is a new topic over at Democratic Underground...

Seems the codewords "Angel is next" were used in conversations between someone and the secret service, on 9/11 and supposedly this was to translated as meaning "AirForce One is next" meaning next to be taken down...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x69359

TAM

[kevin]

Looks like a security cam; 1 frame per whatever.

(Opens up the woo valve full blast for the ct'ers.)

That looks like the resolution of a security cam and then heavily edited. It's like 3 frames long. plane, crash, both towers gone.

[Mancman]

Looks more like 4-5 frames per day...

Here is a new topic over at Democratic Underground...

Seems the codewords "Angel is next" were used in conversations between someone and the secret service, on 9/11 and supposedly this was to translated as meaning "AirForce One is next" meaning next to be taken down...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x69359

TAM

Just had a look around that forum, and found possibly the worst CD hypothesis ever:
However, just as effective.

Instead of destroying all the foundational load bearing members (perimeter and core), "they" probably just destroyed a significant number of foundational core members which in itself had led to a bottom-up interior collpase of the building leaving only the perimeter shells to stand for some time before they too collapsed, though from their weakest points(impact floors) which gave us the appearance of a "top-down" collapse.


In other words, once the core columns had been taken out this caused the core to collapse and also it caused a transferrance of about 60% of the building's load to the perimeter columns. As this weight spread throughout the perimeter it finally came upon a "dead-end" or if you will, the impact zone.

This "dead-end"(impact zone) caused the transferrance of weight to bottleneck , which in itself caused the perimeter columns to fail once the added weight that was being transferred to it became unbearable.

Imagine if you will an empty soda can(no core) and then imagine a hole in the soda can, apply some weight, and try to imagine where that Soda Can will fail first.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x112905#112915


And the youtube caption for the new footage explains it all:
Artist Wolfgang Staehle inadvertently recorded the 9/11 attacks during his last show.

Wolfgang Staehle's last show at Postmasters Gallery, which opened on September 6, 2001, included a panoramic projection of lower Manhattan updated every four seconds via Webcam and dedicated "To the People of New York." Several days later, it became an unintended portrait of the newly severed skyline.

So this guy captured the whole event from September 11th 00:00 till 23:59, but doesnt want to release his video to the media, except for these frames *sigh*

[kevin]

oh lord what a retarded scenario.

In other words, once the core columns had been taken out this caused the core to collapse and also it caused a transferrance of about 60% of the building's load to the perimeter columns.

If the columns were severed where did the other 40% of the load go? A severed column can't carry ANY load (nor a collapsed core) so 100% of the load has to go somewhere.

In reality some of the load from the severed columns (they claim all the columns were severed, in reality only some of them were and it was at the height of plane crash, not in the foundation) was transfered to the exterior walls via the hat truss at the top of the building.

That truss would've also caused the entire building to collapse if they took out the core columns by explosives. Not to mention the cores attachment to the exterior via the floors. If you take out the core at the foundation it'll pull all the floors down and the exterior too. AND this type of collapse would cause it to fall in it's own footprint because all the forces are pulling toward the center.

[NDBoston]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=6580

How can posters like Merc, Russell Pickering and Killtown sleep at night? How far will you go with your theories to take down a man who did nothing but serve his country and be a great father his whole life?

My father was in on it? I dare you people to make these allegations about my father to my family and I on 9-11 at Ground Zero. Make these allegations to our face.

You people make me sick.

Wow.

[60hzxtl]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12181

Quote:
911was,

At the very least get out there and hand out some fylers and videos, even it's in your home town. DO whatever you can do.

Unquote.


Translation - I'm an administrator, I know about cd, flying, engineering, etc, etc, but I don't know how to use spell check.

[T.A.M.]

So was that really Burlingame's daughter that posted that? Oh my god. Someone save that for posterity...That is the human side of this that the F&*King CTers so easily forget.

[mrfreeze]

Saved a screenshot of that in case it mysteriously disappears.

[rwguinn]

Just barely begun watching "Screw Loose Change - Not Freakin' Again Edition" (part 6 I think), and I just have to comment on one thing, MarkyX. When you say "When a 225,000 pound missile going over 500 mph hits reinforced concrete, you expect it to be quiet?!", I figure the CTs will be all over it claiming that you had a "Freudian slip" and admitted it was a missile (the military weapon type). I think it's better to use "aircraft" instead.

IF the loose screw (marbles missing) folks do not understand the English language, that is their problem.
I admit that the evidence supports that lack to an overwhelming degree, however.

[Graham2001]

Saved a screenshot of that in case it mysteriously disappears.

Don't worry it will, as far as 'people' (& I use the term loosely) like the inhabitants of the LC forum are concerned Burlingame didn't have a daughter therefore the person who posted that message is simply a CIA agent trying to spread 'disinformation' and it must be gotten rid of as quickly as possible to 'protect the truth'.

[stateofgrace]

How can posters like Merc, Russell Pickering and Killtown sleep at night? How far will you go with your theories to take down a man who did nothing but serve his country and be a great father his whole life?

My father was in on it? I dare you people to make these allegations about my father to my family and I on 9-11 at Ground Zero. Make these allegations to our face.

You people make me sick.


Wow.

There are very few times I have actually clenched my fists in rage or felt the need to scream obscene remarks, very loudly at them. This is one of those occasions. Had I been at the receiving end of this post I would hang my head in shame and stop what I was doing immediately.

I guess it is what makes humanity, that simple ability to accept you are wrong, apologies and move on.

[MarkyX]

IF the loose screw (marbles missing) folks do not understand the English language, that is their problem.
I admit that the evidence supports that lack to an overwhelming degree, however.

I don't expect to convert hardcore CTers with this video.

It requires reading.

[mrfreeze]

Is your new video up yet? I keep searching for it every few hours, but all I am finding is the old version.

[MarkyX]

Technically it's up on YouTube, but one part refuses to validate and I need to update two parts of the video that are somehow messed up

Don't mention anything until I say so. Still patching up some bugs.

[T.A.M.]

RE: Wendy Burlingame on LC Forum.

Be cautious about this. Apparently in the past, a user over there named "roger" claimed to have created the wnedyb account and was posting as her (not sure why the sicko would do such a thing). Now I am not sure if this is the same one, as this wendyb has only 2 posts, and has been a member since July 2006.

If it is here, than god help their souls. If it isnt, then god help the soul of the one who was posting in her place.

TAM

[T.A.M.]

Here is how some of the CTers "Pay Tribute" and "honor" Charles Burlingame...Warning, the following link may give you the urge to punch your monitor...please resist this urge, so you can continue to post here...

http://terroristattack.com/messages.php?id=324

TAM

[MarkyX]

The ringtone spammers give more respect to the victims then the 9/11 Deniers.

Anyone know how to force YouTube to confirm? One part of the video is almost 24 hours!

[JamesB]

Here is how some of the CTers "Pay Tribute" and "honor" Charles Burlingame...Warning, the following link may give you the urge to punch your monitor...please resist this urge, so you can continue to post here...

http://terroristattack.com/messages.php?id=324

TAM

MASCOW? Is that some sort of livestock exercise? These people are dumber than dirt.

From: Matthew
Date: 05/29/2006
Message: There is a movie circulating which claims on October 24th, 2000, Charles Burlingame participated in "MASCOW" and exercise which simulate a Boeing 757. Shortly after this drill, he retired and took a job with American Airlines, where, less than a year later, his Boeing 757 crashes into the Pentagon and realizes the simulation he particpated in less than a year earlier. That's really weird. Just saying.

[Belz...]

Now playing at the Loose Change forum:

Bush Is Not A Christian, Secrets Of The NWO And Bohemian Grove (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12159)

Now I understand why I had decided NOT to visit that thread.

"They are 600-800 Consentration Camps in america Ready to go."

Really ? Can he give the location of even one ?

Note to sleepy2k16: Just because you lowered the Cones of Silence over your monitor and keyboard when you typed your post does NOT mean that nobody else can see what you wrote.

Indeed. If "they" are so powerful as to warrant complete silence on this subject in public, I wouldn't talk about it on the internet, either.

Hell, where do I sign up?

For hell ? Don't need to. I'll handle that.

"There are rituals that go on inside Bohemian Grove, supposedly by Pagans and Satanists Alike. These go on for a period of 2 weeks, and the rituals include owl worship and worship of other false gods. Bohemian Grove started in 1872, However these Satanist rituals and owl worship didnt begin until 1873. The Owl worship is an Owl statue appox. 40 feet high and is called Moloch. There is also talk these people either wear black and white robes or do not wear any clothes at all. About 20% of the members engage in public homosexual activities. There Main headquarters is in the Bohemian building in San Francisco.

Typical satanist urban legend. According to some, thousands of people are sacrificed each year by these satan-worshippers, and NO ONE notices this.

And why in the blue HELL would someone worship a beign that is KNOWN to be evil and, alledgedly, KNOWN to be on the omnipotent's black list ?

Do you have a dollar bill in front of you? Take a dollar Bill and on the Front of the dollar near the One, The owl that is worshipped is located between the 1 and the Leaves."

One too many Bruckheimer movies.

Wait, I take that back. That's impossible.

I don't understand the fascination with the Freemasons, the Skull & Bones, the Hellfire Club

I do. Emma Frost's reason enough.

I wonder, are there any 9/11 CTers who do not also believe in EVERY other conspiracy theory?

It seems reasonable to assume that whatever innate way of thinking makes them go for one CT draws them to other CTs as well.

[MarkyX]

Funny they bring up Moloch, because I'm seeing a bull, not an owl, in Google.

http://www.carm.org/graphics/1722_moloch.gif

[Strider1974]

Don't know if anyone else has posted this but here it is anyway
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,20341165-5003406,00.html

On Sunday I saw this article in the Telegraph. It is good to see the Telegraph get something right for a change

[CptColumbo]

Don't know if anyone else has posted this but here it is anyway
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,20341165-5003406,00.html

On Sunday I saw this article in the Telegraph. It is good to see the Telegraph get something right for a change

Unfortunately, they got the magazine wrong. It's Popular Mechanics not Popular Science (unless it's called something different there). I did enjoy some of the comments though.

[T.A.M.]

MarkyX:

Just watched all the parts available on YouTube, great job.

There were several parts missing...last I checked (5 min ago).

TAM

[SRW]

Here is how some of the CTers "Pay Tribute" and "honor" Charles Burlingame...Warning, the following link may give you the urge to punch your monitor...please resist this urge, so you can continue to post here...

http://terroristattack.com/messages.php?id=324

TAM


Sick little cowards, what else are they going to do? Find is grave and...

[MarkyX]

MarkyX:

Just watched all the parts available on YouTube, great job.

There were several parts missing...last I checked (5 min ago).

TAM

YouTube is taking it's sweet ****ing time.

24 hours and not even part 14 is approved...

EDIT: Is there any way I can bitch at them? I'm really angry about this.

[Alareth]

I prefer Butter on my mashed potatos rather than Gravy.

[60hzxtl]

I prefer Butter on my mashed potatos rather than Gravy.

Me too, but if you are a skeptic, you can't live without Gravy.

[Grundar]

There are very few times I have actually clenched my fists in rage or felt the need to scream obscene remarks, very loudly at them. This is one of those occasions. Had I been at the receiving end of this post I would hang my head in shame and stop what I was doing immediately.

I guess it is what makes humanity, that simple ability to accept you are wrong, apologies and move on.

But there was one great answer given in that thread.
my bolding
free me:
Assuming you truly are Wendy... why do you keep coming back, then? I'm just curious. If you know what the truth is, why bother wasting time coming here?


Yes why should a truth seeker be interested in someone that knows the truth, better tell them to leave.:boggled:

[Belz...]

Funny they bring up Moloch, because I'm seeing a bull, not an owl, in Google.

http://www.carm.org/graphics/1722_moloch.gif

Moloch was always a bull.

I should know.

[T.A.M.]

Seems Dylan is a little mad. Seems a German article laid waste to the CTers, adn LC in particular...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12267&view=getnewpost

How does that Rolling Stones song go again...

"You'd make a grown man______"

TAM

[T.A.M.]

Nice...This is the whole basis of their current "1 Billion Dollars of Gold" theory on LC:2E:RC

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPrint.asp?Page=%5CBusiness%5Carchive%5C200109% 5CBUS20010912b.html

Yup, that is SOLID, and unrefutable...

TAM

[R.Mackey]

Seems Dylan is a little mad. Seems a German article laid waste to the CTers, adn LC in particular...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12267&view=getnewpost

How does that Rolling Stones song go again...

"You'd make a grown man______"

TAM
Wow, that is precious.

I like how "do-over" Dylan himself invokes Godwin on the fifth post...

"What? A German paper thinks we're nuts? Well, how about that Reichstag fire, eh?" How pathetic can you get?

[JamesB]

Wow, that is precious.

I like how "do-over" Dylan himself invokes Godwin on the fifth post...

"What? A German paper thinks we're nuts? Well, how about that Reichstag fire, eh?" How pathetic can you get?

Gee, and he is the one who goes on radio shows sponsered by neo-Nazi newspapers. I guess the NWO got to the Germans too.

[gumboot]

Just continuing on from the LC copyright topic...

I can offer my expertise in confirming that the majority (if not all) of LCs footage and music use would not fall under "fair use" conditions, therefore they are in copyright violation.

-Andrew

[T.A.M.]

If that is the case, gumboot, than are several networks about to show a program (LC) that is in direct violation of copyright law?

[gumboot]

If that is the case, gumboot, than are several networks about to show a program (LC) that is in direct violation of copyright law?


They are indeed.

I'm not sure where things would stand for them; we looked more into copyright law at the production end, rather than broadcasting.

Broadcasters pay a broadcasting fee which allows them to broadcast anything they want - they keep logs of everything so they know what percentage of their fee goes to whom - so I think it would only be the LC crew that would get in trouble. I aren't entirely sure though.

However if the copyright owners knew in advance they could certainly prevent the broadcaster from playing the programme.

-Andrew

[Class]

Seems Dylan is a little mad. Seems a German article laid waste to the CTers, adn LC in particular...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12267&view=getnewpost

How does that Rolling Stones song go again...

"You'd make a grown man______"

TAM

Dylan is still talking about Gravy.
i can't believe Mark Roberts registered "www.loosechangeguide.com"

But of course when he means Mark Roberts he means all of us.:D

[Graham2001]

Typical satanist urban legend. According to some, thousands of people are sacrificed each year by these satan-worshippers, and NO ONE notices this.

According to one Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) documentary I watched when questioned about this a believer (or at least someone who was pushing the story) claimed that the satanists ate the evidence:jaw-dropp

I've also seen the 'Courier-Mail' article in the 'Sunday Times' it also had the Popular Mechanics/Popular Science error in it. But as both papers are owned by News Limited its likely due to a common source article being used. Sadly this will just provide more ammunition to the CTs.

[orphia nay]

What an odd post, even for him:


http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,434908,00.html

we've already pulled in almost 6,000 hits today straight from this article alone. any good translators in the house?

Links from an external page (other web sites except search engines) - Full list
- http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,434908,00.html 5339 5339
- http://www.gerhard-wisnewski.de/modules.php 252 252
- http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/...,429227,00.html 207 207
- http://66.249.93.104/translate_c 201 3318
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(video) 136 136
- http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html 135 135
- http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm 107 107
- http://www.leukestart.nl/updates/zoekopnetindex.php 91 91
- http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1531250,00.html 81 81
- http://blog.naver.com/post/postView.jsp 78 392
- Others 4372 79152

i can't believe Mark Roberts registered "www.loosechangeguide.com"

It looks like Gravy made him cry.

[gumboot]

What an odd post, even for him:

It looks like Gravy made him cry.


You've got to love those Loosers:

I guess that many of these editors know that 9/11 was an inside job but are forbidden to speak of it. By writing these outwardly negative articles they can publicise 9/11 Truth without getting into trouble with their bosses.

Just have a look at the Time article. The first two paragraphs are pure publicity. After the first two paragraphs they cover themselves by ridiculing the Truth movement, but by then the message has already been spelled out to the readership -- get onto this, it's the Truth.

:covereyes

-Andrew

[Alareth]

You have to be impressed with the tenacity they hold onto their beliefs with in the face of overwhelming reality

[orphia nay]

I agree entirely.

Looosers logic re: debunking articles:
If it says it's carp and proves it's carp, it's still good publicity.

And they wonder why we think they're insane and/or stupid.

[CurtC]

Dylan is still talking about Gravy.
i can't believe Mark Roberts registered "www.loosechangeguide.com"
But of course when he means Mark Roberts he means all of us.:D
Actually, *I* registered that domain name, not Mark. A simply whois search can verify. I can't post over at the LC forum, so anyone want to tell Dylan?

[WildCat]

Actually, *I* registered that domain name, not Mark. A simply whois search can verify. I can't post over at the LC forum, so anyone want to tell Dylan?
Who you fooling" We know you are Mark Roberts.

[60hzxtl]

"i can't believe Mark Roberts registered "www.loosechangeguide.com"

The phrase "Do-Over Dylan" however, remains in the pubic domain. . . and available for "fair usage."

[Dog Town]

"i can't believe Mark Roberts registered "www.loosechangeguide.com"

The phrase "Do-Over Dylan" however, remains in the pubic domain. . . and available for "fair usage."

I think I should buy it and link it to my alias site: markrobertsmarkyxmarkwhoeverandanyoneatjrefandshil ls.paranoia

[Submersible]

I have no idea what this means.

If you understood and accepted the contents of the food that goes into your mouth, or if you understood and accepted the chemicals that the FDA has approved to go into our food supply, then you might not be so trustworthy in the "official" reports or claims that have been offered to U.S. concerning 9/11 or anything else.

Posilac was once banned in every other industrialized nation in the world, now it is only legal in U.S. , Mexico, and South Africa... research the effects of this drug.

Also, aspartame = Formaldehyde/Methanol

The point I'm trying to make is that right now "we the people" are so blind to the fact that our tax dollars are responsible for the death of millions of innocent people on the other side of the globe.. that we don't even recognize that we are being slaughtered with cancer, among other diseases in our own country.

For example, B-17, it is derived from natural apricot seeds and it is also illegal in this country,
because it cures cancer.


Why is it you guys will just throw stills of the World Trade Center collapsing pretty much anywhere at the drop of a hat? I can't look at the those images without thinking, "Here I am again witnessing thousands of people dying again." That's a really humbling thought for me. It's a reminder that I take everything around me for granted; that I could lose my friends or my own life in a heartbeat. It's not something I take lightly, like revisiting a grave. However you think the towers fell, that image portays a staggering loss of human life.

Why does it seem like you guys use it as graffiti?

I certainly don't see it as a sign of graffiti or disrespect, sorry if you take it that way. It's just an obvious way to point out the fact that if only 25% of the structural beams inside of the towers were less than "failure temperature", then the structures wouldn't have fallen straight down into their footprints.
Regardless what the "professionals" say, there is no way in hell that each and every beam in the "extreme heat" zone would have failed to support the weight of the structure at the same time.
And I don't like reading a bunch of official B.S.! reports that say different, to me it would seem that common sense would explain that to most people when they see the images or video footage of the towers as they fell.
Did any of you ever play with "Lincoln Logs" ???

You have to be impressed with the tenacity they hold onto their beliefs with in the face of overwhelming reality

The overwhelming reality is that an accurate investigation into the entire soap-opera cannot be done because the evidence no longer exist in the "physical" realm or it is not available. A simple release of video footage from the cameras surrounding the pentagon would eliminate much of the confusion. It's not so much that the "they" broke it off in our ass, after almost 5 years of controversy there was ONE more clip of video that supposedly shows an airplane approaching the structure.. but there was no airplane in the image. It's like someone is playing a game with our peace of mind.

You ARE aware that this is a skeptics forum, rihgt ?

Which doesn't mean there were explosives, ,,explosives, ,,explosives.

You can ingest as much as you want. Food doesn't make you ignorant. Refusal to learn does.

I thought this was a forum of intelligent minded people who could accept what their eyes can see in the images and videos instead of reading the "reports" which are as worthless as toilet paper, because the evidence that was analyzed no longer exist.
We are discussing the greates crime of all times and the evidence does not exist. It would seem logical that if you were looking for the "suspects" that you wouldn't have to look any further than those who erased the overwhelming majority of the physical evidence. right ?

And I hate to inform you, but there are certain ingredients that have been intentionally added to our food supply that does in fact make most people ignorant.
Research the effects of the "freak amino acid" in our dairy supply and the formaldehyde/methanol in our artificial sugar supply. It would seem that most rational minded people that have accepted the fact that our protection agencies have failed to actually protect us, could also accept the fact that the system has infact, for some reason, chosen to intentionally poison the American mind with chemicals and propaganda.
sorry.

Where is this? Do you have a picture of this (from a time other than at a photo op where an Israeli diplomat is present)? Or are you speaking metaphorically?

If you watch the news, whenever someone is speaking from the white house you can see the flag of israel flying next to the American flag on a daily basis. It is no secret who's agenda our tax dollars promote. Which would also explain why the multi-billionaire oil drenched muslims are all on the same team as ... "them".

Are you a structural engineer? Yes or no.

No.
It "turns [your] stomach?"

Yes.
It "disgust [sic]" you?

Yes.
I for one am not interested in listening to you lecture from atop your elevated saddle.

I for one was asked for my "credentials" after each and every post I made in this thread, so I finally answered your questions. If you perceive my perspective as being from "atop a saddle" then ... thank you.

I understand it must be difficult to promote your idea(s) when you have no evidence on your side. So naturally your type will resort to obfuscation. Stop.

How can you say that *I* have no evidence, the majority of your debate is based on written government claims. If the evidence still existed, or if it was available to US... this controversy wouldn't be so, controversial.

The "fact?" I don't think that word means what you think it means.

The "fact" is, that all of your evidence exist on paper. If the "suspects" didn't eliminate or erase all of the hardcore evidence... like I said, it wouldn't be an issue.
Do you ever question the people who have destroyed or witheld all of the evidence, since doing so is unheard of in every other crime.
Who would recycle or destroy the evidence from a murder scene?
The suspect right?!?
I thought so.




Submersible:

If I recall, when you came over here you were reasonable, so I am hoping you will resume that form in terms of your discussions here.

1. Is it about religion. There is not a clear cut answer to that. My take on it, is that religion is involved in a couple of ways in the whole 9/11 debate. For starters, there is no doubt, that Islamic Extremism is involved, if you believe the official story, which most here do. Secondly, there is an anti-semetic component that runs rampent through the "Truth" movement. Your comment on the flags is not helping disolve that perspective.

I'm just pointing out a "fact". Isn't it ironic that our president holds hands with one classification of Muslims and our government and media demonizes the others. And it's not as if the "Royal" Muslims have kept their investments in Haliburton and other "war machine" facilities a secret. You know, kinda like the handful of rich & royal Islamic people are making even more money from the destruction of the dirt poor and devout Islamic people.
Think about that, we are at war with "radical Islam", and the "American way" is somewhat totally dependent on the Royal Saudi's who are also Muslims.

I think most people who are speaking here, are trying to tell you that it is not a simple "Christianity vs Islam" or "Judaism vs Islam" war or battle or contraversy. Most here would agree that most Muslims are peaceful, ordinary people, that simply have a different faith.

It could be as simple as the "elite" working with the Royal Saudi's who basically own this nations oil supply, and both parties have an interest in elevating and participating in the 1400 yr. old war with the two most devout "classifications" and the poorest groups of Muslims in the world.
That's the way it looks to me.


The "war on terror" is not a war on Islam, but rather a war on those who would harm innocent people for whatever cause. It just so happens that the focus of the war, at this time in history, seems to be on individuals that use an extreme take on their religion as the reason for their crimes.

Do you remember about 3 years ago when there was a lone sniper causing all kinds of "terror" on the east coast?
Do you realize how many Muslims live and own businesses in this country already, and the capability those people have to "wreak havoc" in this nation?
I mean, it's not as if they haven't seen enough of their people murdered overseas in this war of terror to walk outside of their convience store or motel, walk into a busy intersection "fully loaded", and raise hell in this country.
And your right, you can't really call this a "War against Islam" because like I said earlier, there is a particular classification of Islam that basically controls the flow of oil and the price of gasoline in this country. oh, and dubya likes to hold hands with some Islamic leaders.

2. You were a fireworker for 12 years. What do you make of all the testimony around WTC7. Multiple firemen testifying that WTC7 was severely damaged and looked like it was going to collapse?

Unless someone has ordered you, you never assume that a multi-story superstructure is going to collapse when there is an apparent fire showing in less than 5% of the building. I would imagine that they were as disgusted and confused as one could possibly be since the images show a fire that could have been somewhat easily extinguished. And remember something, the firemen who survived the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 were certainly not afraid to go into tower 7 and fight fire. I would imagine that they wanted nothing more than to go into that building and "get it on, BIG TIME" .. so to say.

Very few people here, if any, would deny that people exiting/entering/around the WTCs that morning heard explosions. The point we seem to disagree on is what the word "explosion" refers to, and what were the actual "explosions". For instance, has anyone asked those firemen..."The explosions you heard, could they have been due to exploding containers of heated chemicals? Could the something falling down an elevator shaft for instance, sound like an explosion when it hits the ground. Could a transformer exploding make a similar noise? Not all "explosions" come from "explosives".

Let's just say that everybody who has participated in this thread has done more "homework" than I have. And I really don't know who asked those fireman specific questions. But no, debris falling down an elevator shaft does not sound or feel like "explosions" , you could say that falling debris makes a "thump" while an explosion carries the sound of a "boom, bump" , with the obvious sensation of "compression". TAM

I really want one of them to answer. I want to hear someone try to justify so cavalierly wallpapering our discussion with these images. Submersible, if you really care as deeply as you say about what happened to the people that died in those buildings, why do you constantly dehumanize the last remaining images of their lives?

Don't worry, I'm haunted.
And I have been from the moment those buildings fell out of the sky. I called my first fire chief that morning and we both agreed that "something ain't right" about this.
Maybe that made it easier for me to see past the smoke at Ground Zero and notice the smoke/smog saturating the skies in the background and look for the "overall" problem.

The unnoticed loss of life that takes place in this country on a daily basis from CUREABLE diseases is staggering, considering the "fact" that, according to official reports... no cure exist.

We ARE all ONE, and in this country, we are not far from suffocating ourselves. And what did the little monkey boy u'sta say??
"Stay the course".

little fukker

[CptColumbo]

If you watch the news, whenever someone is speaking from the white house you can see the flag of israel flying next to the American flag on a daily basis. It is no secret who's agenda our tax dollars promote. Which would also explain why the multi-billionaire oil drenched muslims are all on the same team as ... "them".

If it is on the news "on a daily basis," you should have no trouble producing multiple photos.

When I see the daily press briefing I see no Israeli flag.
When the President speaks from the Oval Office there is no Israeli flag.

I've only seen one when the President is having a photo op or press conference with an Israeli official, which is a diplomatic curtousy extended to most visiting dignitaries.

[Gravy]

Three questions, submersible:

1) Is your real name Kevin Trudeau?

2) Why do you disrespect professionalism?

3) What do you think about chemtrails?

[gumboot]

If you understood and accepted the contents of the food that goes into your mouth, or if you understood and accepted the chemicals that the FDA has approved to go into our food supply, then you might not be so trustworthy in the "official" reports or claims that have been offered to U.S. concerning 9/11 or anything else.


How do you explain people like me, who think 9/11 happened pretty much the way the official story claims (minor tweaks, here and there) but doesn't consume American food, thus isn't controlled by your strange mind-drugs?



The point I'm trying to make is that right now "we the people" are so blind to the fact that our tax dollars are responsible for the death of millions of innocent people on the other side of the globe.. that we don't even recognize that we are being slaughtered with cancer, among other diseases in our own country.


Believe me, you don't need all your wacky American drugs to produce cancer.



For example, B-17, it is derived from natural apricot seeds and it is also illegal in this country,
because it cures cancer.


Oh so the NWO's objective is to kill all Americans via cancer? Why?




I certainly don't see it as a sign of graffiti or disrespect, sorry if you take it that way. It's just an obvious way to point out the fact that if only 25% of the structural beams inside of the towers were less than "failure temperature", then the structures wouldn't have fallen straight down into their footprints.


And the photos show this...how?

Having said that, since the buildings didn't fall "straight down into their footprints" we must all be in agreement right?



Regardless what the "professionals" say, there is no way in hell that each and every beam in the "extreme heat" zone would have failed to support the weight of the structure at the same time.

If you pull a rubber band, does it tear slowly? Or does it reach a critical point at which it just snaps? This is what the WTC towers did. The sagging floors pulled the floors in. At a critical point the shearing force on the walls (because they were now taking the upper loads at an angle) became greater than the resistance of the wall. At that moment the wall failed. SNAP. Like a rubberband. Cue collapse.

I find your comments about VERY disturbing. You clearly lack the least degree of understanding of the scenario in question, and yet you arrogantly think you know better than the experts who study these sorts of things for a job.



And I don't like reading a bunch of official B.S.! reports that say different, to me it would seem that common sense would explain that to most people when they see the images or video footage of the towers as they fell.


Common sense is invariably wrong when it comes to photographic interpretation.




A simple release of video footage from the cameras surrounding the pentagon would eliminate much of the confusion.

What footage would this be? From what cameras?




I thought this was a forum of intelligent minded people who could accept what their eyes can see in the images and videos instead of reading the "reports" which are as worthless as toilet paper, because the evidence that was analyzed no longer exist.


No, this is a forum of intelligent people who realise that looking at a bunch of videos tells you very little about what is going on. It is a bunch of people who realise just how misleading images can be. It's a bunch of people who respect those that have studied a given field enough to become experts in it.



We are discussing the greates crime of all times and the evidence does not exist.


On the historical scale, 9/11 is smallfry. "Greatest crime of all times"? Please. Push your American ego aside for a moment and take a brief trip down history lane.



It would seem logical that if you were looking for the "suspects" that you wouldn't have to look any further than those who erased the overwhelming majority of the physical evidence. right ?


Why do you keep going with this line of reasoning? The majority of physical evidence has repeatedly been presented. When was it "erased"?



And I hate to inform you, but there are certain ingredients that have been intentionally added to our food supply that does in fact make most people ignorant.


"It's not my fault I'm stupid, honest, the government made me like this."



Don't worry, I'm haunted.
And I have been from the moment those buildings fell out of the sky. I called my first fire chief that morning and we both agreed that "something ain't right" about this.


You're right. A bunch of fantatical terrorists slaughtered nearly 3,000 civilians for the sake of their sick ideology. "Something ain't right" is a major understatement.

-Andrew

[MortFurd]

If you understood and accepted the contents of the food that goes into your mouth, or if you understood and accepted the chemicals that the FDA has approved to go into our food supply, then you might not be so trustworthy in the "official" reports or claims that have been offered to U.S. concerning 9/11 or anything else.

So, the US government has convinced the German government to go along with this? I've lived in Germany for the last 18 years, and still accept the official version of the events of 911 as the most accurate.

Also, aspartame = Formaldehyde/Methanol
Aspartame tastes nasty. Anyone who can hold the stuff down deserves whatever he gets. Diet drinks are the devil's work.

The point I'm trying to make is that right now "we the people" are so blind to the fact that our tax dollars are responsible for the death of millions of innocent people on the other side of the globe.. that we don't even recognize that we are being slaughtered with cancer, among other diseases in our own country.
For example, B-17, it is derived from natural apricot seeds and it is also illegal in this country,
because it cures cancer.
B17 (which is NOT a vitamin) decomposes in the body into prussic acid. You want cancer victims to take that? Chemo therapy is supposed to kill the cancer, not the person.




Regardless what the "professionals" say, there is no way in hell that each and every beam in the "extreme heat" zone would have failed to support the weight of the structure at the same time.
They didn't haveto fail at the exact same time. Once the first one fails, its load falls on the others that haven't failed. One of those fails, and you've got more load to distribute. Wash, rinse, repeat. Within seconds the whole thing is headed for the ground.

Did any of you ever play with "Lincoln Logs" ???
Yes, I did. The WTC wasn't built from Lincoln logs, however.



I thought this was a forum of intelligent minded people who could accept what their eyes can see in the images and videos instead of reading the "reports" which are as worthless as toilet paper, because the evidence that was analyzed no longer exist.
You are dealing with a forum full of intelligent, open minded people. The proof of that is that they are still debating with you rather than simply having you banned like the truther forums do. We're trying to get you people to use that squishy thing between your ears.

We've seen the videos. We've read the reports. Both support one another. Have you read the reports and understood what was in them in relation ot both the videos and films and physics? The folks here have, and for the most part we agree with the conclusions reached in the reports.

We are discussing the greates crime of all times and the evidence does not exist. It would seem logical that if you were looking for the "suspects" that you wouldn't have to look any further than those who erased the overwhelming majority of the physical evidence. right ?
And just where should the enormous volume of material have been stored? Should they have carted it all off and kept it on a lot in the desert? Should they have vacuumed New York and kept all the dust?

And I hate to inform you, but there are certain ingredients that have been intentionally added to our food supply that does in fact make most people ignorant.
Research the effects of the "freak amino acid" in our dairy supply and the formaldehyde/methanol in our artificial sugar supply. It would seem that most rational minded people that have accepted the fact that our protection agencies have failed to actually protect us, could also accept the fact that the system has infact, for some reason, chosen to intentionally poison the American mind with chemicals and propaganda.
sorry.

You must have gotten a double dose, some how. The rest of the world is not eating "mind control food" from the US government, and they still accept the official conclusions.



If you watch the news, whenever someone is speaking from the white house you can see the flag of israel flying next to the American flag on a daily basis. It is no secret who's agenda our tax dollars promote. Which would also explain why the multi-billionaire oil drenched muslims are all on the same team as ... "them".
Anti-semitism?


The unnoticed loss of life that takes place in this country on a daily basis from CUREABLE diseases is staggering, considering the "fact" that, according to official reports... no cure exist.

Don't exist. Repeat after me: Don't exist. B17 (Laetrile) is not a wonder cure for cancer. Most Germans won't even believe that, and they'll swallow homeopathy, chiropracty, accupuncture, and blood crystal analyisis along with using pendulums to select the correct medication.

I've often wondered how such paranoid people can make it through the day.

It is obvious that submersible doesn't eat. Since the food makes everyone believe everything the government says, and submersible doesn't believe, it follows that submersible doesn't eat. Unless he grows his own, of course.


Just a little note:
If the food made everyone so gullible, then they would be responsive to every suggestion, not just the ones from the government.

[60hzxtl]

I'm not sure where things would stand for them; we looked more into copyright law at the production end, rather than broadcasting.

Broadcasters pay a broadcasting fee which allows them to broadcast anything they want - they keep logs of everything so they know what percentage of their fee goes to whom - so I think it would only be the LC crew that would get in trouble. I aren't entirely sure though.



When I turn in a production to Discovery or History Channel, we turn in a "production book" Usually a 3 ring binder containing: signed releases from the subjects on camera (not necessary for news)

Signed releases for the location -- (if I've used a museum etc. as a background.)

Listing of all music, if it is not original to the production, then performance rights, publisher rights, and copyright information, along with the letter of clearance.

Same for stock footage, and stills.

Copy of an insurance policy called "errors and omissions" in case I screwed up any of the stuff above, and the broadcaster gets sued.

Failing to do that, subjects the film maker AND the broadcaster to copyright violations and the penalty is $10k PER instance.

Lawyers are your partners these days as a film maker. And film school doesn't cover that part enough because it's dull.

Film making is a BUSINESS. Business first, art second. You might get a grant to make a film, but Kodak gets cash up front.

(want to know how to make a small fortune as a documentary maker? Start with a large one. . . )

[negativ]

On the historical scale, 9/11 is smallfry. "Greatest crime of all times"? Please. Push your American ego aside for a moment and take a brief trip down history lane.

The problem here is that you aren't taking into account the power of Submersible's belief. Belief is why CTers are generally immune to reason.

You have to take it from Submersible's perspective. To him, 9/11 is much more than just 3000 dead. It's a sinister plot involving probably thousands of willing participants at all levels of government, media, and private industry. It's about evil people controlling the entire planet via the New World Order (which has never been fully described, but is clearly assumed to be rather unpleasant). To him, these are facts that he believes just as strongly as you (presumably) believe the Earth isn't flat and orbits the Sun.

[chipmunk stew]

Also, aspartame = Formaldehyde/Methanol
Guess what: table salt = sodium/chlorine :eek: !!!

These are highly toxic elements, and yet sodium compounds such as NaCl are not, and in fact are essential to our health and survival.

Molecular characteristics diverge drastically from those of their component parts.

For example, B-17, it is derived from natural apricot seeds and it is also illegal in this country, because it cures cancer.
It's still available: http://www.metabolicproductssupply.com/cat1_1.htm?gclid=CJHcr6u9locCFQa2Qgodkg3hrA
It's not a cure for cancer. Evidence of this (beyond the clinical studies) is that no Big Evil drug companies have patented it and profitted enormously from it.

[Cuddles]

It's still available: http://www.metabolicproductssupply.com/cat1_1.htm?gclid=CJHcr6u9locCFQa2Qgodkg3hrA
It's not a cure for cancer. Evidence of this (beyond the clinical studies) is that no Big Evil drug companies have patented it and profitted enormously from it.

But that's what you'd expect them to do. It's all a clever double bluff. :eek:

[delphi_ote]

Guess what: table salt = sodium/chlorine :eek: !!!
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/delphi_ote/42525711.jpg

[realitybites]

Guess what: table salt = sodium/chlorine :eek: !!!

That reminds me of a discovery one of my not-so-bright roommates happened upon one day while looking at the nutrition facts on a container of Mortons:

[valley-girl-accent]
Oh my god guys! There's a lot of sodium in salt!
[/valley-girl-accent]

.... She's gone back to school to become an educator.

[chipmunk stew]

But that's what you'd expect them to do. It's all a clever double bluff. :eek:
It's very clever.

1. Give everyone cancer
2. Suppress the cure for cancer
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!!

[Mancman]

Dylan reckons he has uncovered a new smoking gun: 'videos of flashes going off inside WTC7 hours before collapse' http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12256&st=0&#entry7076466

Watch the video however(a hefty 79mb for 11 seconds of footage) and it looks like something fusing. A big load of nothing.

[TK0001]

Typical of loosers to take a semblance of reality and twist it into something that does not remotely resemble the truth.

One looser told me that we went to war over 22 trillion dollars a year in oil.

:rolleyes:

[kookbreaker]

Guess what: table salt = sodium/chlorine :eek: !!!


Good Ed, nobody tell him what water is made of.

[MarkyX]

Dylan reckons he has uncovered a new smoking gun: 'videos of flashes going off inside WTC7 hours before collapse' http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12256&st=0&#entry7076466

Watch the video however(a hefty 79mb for 11 seconds of footage) and it looks like something fusing. A big load of nothing.

Wait, we are expected to believe that some flashes hours befoer the collapse are the bombs?

Okaay...


let me guess....electrical problems caused by falling debris from the Twin Towers...fyi, this is not an isolated incident. i have 4 or 5 other clips where similar things occur, and much more rapid...


Probably. I do have a video of a electric transformer blowing and guess what? The flashes I'm seeing in those shots look quite identical to the electric transformer.

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/1527/flash1jx4.jpg

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/6195/flash2tv7.jpg

Now their images...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5876/52iy6.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3599/61po7.jpg

9/11 Deniers like visual evidence, so I'm curious what they have to say about this.

[60hzxtl]

Dylan reckons he has uncovered a new smoking gun: 'videos of flashes going off inside WTC7 hours before collapse' http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12256&st=0&#entry7076466

Watch the video however(a hefty 79mb for 11 seconds of footage) and it looks like something fusing. A big load of nothing.

Dylan? "Film maker" ha ha ha ha!

Exposure, sonny, brightness is relative - or didn't your teacher tell you about exposure ratios?

Oh, I forgot, everything you know, you taught yourself! You had an idiot for a student. And a dope for a teacher


Back up Dylan, and call for a Do-Over!

[sleahead]

Watch the video however(a hefty 79mb for 11 seconds of footage) and it looks like something fusing. A big load of nothing.

I'm having trouble downloading it, so I have not seen it yet. I don't know much about these things, but is not that amount of memory for that length of video very odd?

[CurtC]

I'm having trouble downloading it, so I have not seen it yet. I don't know much about these things, but is not that amount of memory for that length of video very odd?
Isn't an HDTV signal something like 6 Mbits/second? 79 Mbytes in 11 seconds is 57 Mbits/second!

[Pardalis]

If you understood and accepted the contents of the food that goes into your mouth

crazy paranoid ****

.. that we don't even recognize that we are being slaughtered with cancer, among other diseases in our own country.


Is there a competition going on here for the most insane CTist? I think you stand a pretty good chance to equal Sir Knight and Christophera.

edited: Killtown isn't insane, he's just mean

Did any of you ever play with "Lincoln Logs" ???

Lincoln logs??? Are you serious? Is that the extent of your understanding of structural engeneering? No wonder you believe the CT crap.

It's like someone is playing a game with our peace of mind.

Yes, someone is playing with your peace of mind allright, the CTists!

I thought this was a forum of intelligent minded people who could accept what their eyes can see in the images and videos instead of reading the "reports" which are as worthless as toilet paper, because the evidence that was analyzed no longer exist.

This doesn't even dignify a response.

It would seem that most rational minded people that have accepted the fact that our protection agencies have failed to actually protect us, could also accept the fact that the system has infact, for some reason, chosen to intentionally poison the American mind with chemicals and propaganda.
sorry.

Have you seen the movie Dr. Strangelove by any chance?

We ARE all ONE

What's with this Borg ideology? If we are all "one", that means that you are also one with Bush, Cheney and all the others you despise.

[JamesB]

Wait, we are expected to believe that some flashes hours befoer the collapse are the bombs?

Okaay...



Probably. I do have a video of a electric transformer blowing and guess what? The flashes I'm seeing in those shots look quite identical to the electric transformer.


Now their images...

9/11 Deniers like visual evidence, so I'm curious what they have to say about this.

Once during college I was hanging around my dorm, and there was this tremendous explosion. I swear it sounded like a car bomb, and I was on the 9th floor, I dove for cover. This was during the Gulf War and I had just gotten off of active duty a couple of months earlier, so maybe I was a little jumpy. Anyway, nothing further happened and the fire department came. Turns out a transformer exploded. But I guess that proves there was controlled demolition in my dormitory.

[juryjone]

And I don't like reading a bunch of official B.S.! reports that say different, to me it would seem that common sense would explain that to most people when they see the images or video footage of the towers as they fell.

It's deja vu all over again. CTer after CTer comes in here and in response to all the hard science and figures quoted in these threads, says it "seems" that "common sense" derived from looking at "images or video" outweighs actual physics.

Submersible, any "common sense" that tells you that CD was responsible for the towers' fall is neither "common" nor "sense", in any sane definition of the word. Also, you didn't need to tell us that you don't like reading - it was obvious from your very first post.

[Kent1]

For explosives they sure aren't very explosive. LOL!
Here's another video with flashes.
Like the 5.2 meg file here
http://thewebfairy.com/911/7/

[MarkyX]

For explosives they sure aren't very explosive. LOL!
Here's another video with flashes.
Like the 5.2 meg file here
http://thewebfairy.com/911/7/

That had to be the most quietest explosive in the world..

[negativ]

Have you seen the movie Dr. Strangelove by any chance?

I always KNEW aspertame was part of the international neo-con conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. Get Premier Kissov on the hotline!

[T.A.M.]

Submersible:OFF TOPIC

I work in Healthcare. I can tell you that anyone who has convinced you that the medical community or the drug companies are hiding cures for Cancer is FOS.

The ONLY, ONLY, types of cancer that can be cured are those that are surgically resectable (Cut them out), an deven this is not guaranteed, just possible.. All others can be reduced, or placed in remission via Chemo and/or radiation therapy. Now for some cancers that can still mean years and years of extended life, but the cancer is still not cured. If you understood how cancer works, you would know this. Cancer is your bodies own cells, mutated to grow in an abnormal fashion and or accelerated rate. If even one cell of cancer remains, the possibility for a recurrance exists.

There is no drug presently, nor do I think there will be, that can absolutely cure cancer. I think we will see a day when Chemo is so good, that people will be able to live out normal, long lives, even with cancer in their bodies, through extended remission, and overwhelming the cancer each time it recurs.

B-17 is crap. Show me one <b>double blind control trial </b>that proves it <b>cures</b> cancer, just one, in a respected journal, and I will give it further consideration. For it to cure cancer, I would want to see 10 year follow up studies on the same patients who got it, showing NO SIGN of cancer. Other wise, at most it would be a natural Chemo agent, and nothing more.

TAM

[delphi_ote]

I always KNEW aspertame was part of the international neo-con conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. Get Premier Kissov on the hotline!
Do you realize that in addition to artificially sweetening coffee, why, there are studies underway to artificially sweeten salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Children's ice cream!

I had artificial sweetener in my coffee after the physical act of making love, and I felt a profound sense of fatigue. Luckily, I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of coffee. Women sense my caffeine and they seek the coffee. I do not avoid women, but I do deny them my coffee!

[60hzxtl]

That had to be the most quietest explosive in the world..

It wasn't an explosion it was an implosion.

The don't go boom they go Moob!

[Regnad Kcin]

...Regardless what the "professionals" say, there is no way in hell that each and every beam in the "extreme heat" zone would have failed to support the weight of the structure at the same time."Regardless what the 'professionals' say?"

Should you ever have chest pains and sharp jabs in your left arm accompanied by shortness of breath, will you be consulting a heart specialist, or will the opinion of a guy who collects episodes of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman do?

And I don't like reading a bunch of official B.S.! reports that say different...Do you understand what confirmation bias (http://skepdic.com/confirmbias.html) is?

...to me it would seem that common sense would explain that to most people when they see the images or video footage of the towers as they fell."Common sense" indicates that the Earth is flat. Do you believe it isn't? If not, why not?

Did any of you ever play with "Lincoln Logs" ???Which no more represent the Twin Towers than Barbie does Naomi Watts.

The overwhelming reality is that an accurate investigation into the entire soap-opera cannot be done because the evidence no longer exist in the "physical" realm or it is not available.The "overwhelming reality" is that an accurate investigation has been completed. Too bad you don't like the results.

A simple release of video footage from the cameras surrounding the pentagon would eliminate much of the confusion.My guess? No amount of video footage, or information of any kind, will disuade CTers from their appointed rounds.

It's not so much that the "they" broke it off in our ass, after almost 5 years of controversy there was ONE more clip of video that supposedly shows an airplane approaching the structure.. but there was no airplane in the image. It's like someone is playing a game with our peace of mind.It was a security camera, taking frames at a slow rate, trained on an entrance gate. The jet impacted the Pentagon at a speed too fast for the camera.

I thought this was a forum of intelligent minded people who could accept what their eyes can see in the images and videos instead of reading the "reports" which are as worthless as toilet paper, because the evidence that was analyzed no longer exist.You seem stuck on this "evidence that...no longer exist [sic]" business. No amount of reviewing the physical materials could produce evidence that is satisfactory to you. Why? You would dismiss it as you've done so far.

And while you may never understand, "what [your] eyes can see" is often unreliable, if not downright false. Would you like an example?

We are discussing the greates crime of all times and the evidence does not exist. It would seem logical that if you were looking for the "suspects" that you wouldn't have to look any further than those who erased the overwhelming majority of the physical evidence. right ?No. No no no no no. No.

[jhunter1163]

If you use Hushaboom (tm) to blow up Invisicrete (tm), how can you tell if anything has happened?

[kookbreaker]

Submersible:OFF TOPIC

I work in Healthcare. I can tell you that anyone who has convinced you that the medical community or the drug companies are hiding cures for Cancer is FOS.


I've said it before: I dare any of these 'Cancer cures are being supressed by doctors' crowd to go up to a medical professional who works in the Cancer ward of a hospital (one of the most depressing jobs in medicine as I understand it). They should then explain their theory, with full inclusion that they consider the people working in the Cancer ward to be just as culpable.

They might then reconsider their flakey opinions while their face is being reattached.

[Jennie C.]

Technically it's up on YouTube, but one part refuses to validate and I need to update two parts of the video that are somehow messed up.

Marky, is there a link to help me find your YouTube videos, or were you waiting for final validation before posting it?

I can wait ....
:)

[negativ]

If you use Hushaboom (tm) to blow up Invisicrete (tm), how can you tell if anything has happened?

The monk opened his mouth as if to reply, but before he could speak the master raised his cane high above his head and shouted, "I AM THE ENTIRETY OF THE UNIVERSE!" and smashed his cane down on the monk's head.

Whereupon, the monk became enlightened.

[Belz...]

Also, aspartame = Formaldehyde/Methanol

To the best of my knowledge the jury's still out on aspartame. I hate the taste, though.

The point I'm trying to make is that right now "we the people" are so blind to the fact that our tax dollars are responsible for the death of millions of innocent people on the other side of the globe.. that we don't even recognize that we are being slaughtered with cancer, among other diseases in our own country.

Liar. We're very much aware that 1/3 people are affected by cancer (whether of not that statistics is true.) And I'm still waiting on your evidence for that food thing.

For example, B-17, it is derived from natural apricot seeds and it is also illegal in this country, because it cures cancer.

Everything is derived from natural stuff. Please provide your evidence that it "cures cancer".

Cancer isn't "cured" like the common cold. I would venture to say that the natural tendency of ALL cells is to be cancerous. There are mechanisms that prevent this, for obvious reasons, but this means that the slightest damage to a cell's genetic structure can cause cancer.

I certainly don't see it as a sign of graffiti or disrespect, sorry if you take it that way. It's just an obvious way to point out the fact that if only 25% of the structural beams inside of the towers were less than "failure temperature", then the structures wouldn't have fallen straight down into their footprints.

Speculation.

Regardless what the "professionals" say, there is no way in hell that each and every beam in the "extreme heat" zone would have failed to support the weight of the structure at the same time.

They didn't need to, really.

And why, AGAIN, scare quotes around "professionals" ?

A simple release of video footage from the cameras surrounding the pentagon would eliminate much of the confusion.

But they WERE released.

I thought this was a forum of intelligent minded people

You were correct, and thank you. Do you deny that explosions can be the result of things that aren't explosives ?

who could accept what their eyes can see in the images and videos instead of reading the "reports" which are as worthless as toilet paper, because the evidence that was analyzed no longer exist.

Well, I'm sorry if reading makes your mind numb, but to me, the analysis of people whose expertise far exceeds mine is much more reliable than videos that I am not qualified to interpret.

It would seem logical that if you were looking for the "suspects" that you wouldn't have to look any further than those who erased the overwhelming majority of the physical evidence. right ?

Wrong. The steel HAD to be taken away. The planes HAD to be taken away. You can't just let these things sit there forever.

And I hate to inform you, but there are certain ingredients that have been intentionally added to our food supply that does in fact make most people ignorant.

They MAKE people ignorant ? Honestly, I don't know how that would happen. Do they decrease the intelligence, or remove memories, or what ? In either case, please provide evidence that this is the case. A double-blind test would be appreciated.

Research the effects of the "freak amino acid" in our dairy supply and the formaldehyde/methanol in our artificial sugar supply.

Chemtrails, too, perhaps ?

It would seem that most rational minded people that have accepted the fact that our protection agencies have failed to actually protect us, could also accept the fact that the system has infact, for some reason, chosen to intentionally poison the American mind with chemicals and propaganda.

All I see is words, sub. No links or proof. That doesn't tend to sit well with JREFers in general, and with me in particular.

sorry.

You might have noticed, so far, that I'm not the kind of person to be swayed by appeals to emotion. Your "sorry", there, had no effect.

If you watch the news, whenever someone is speaking from the white house you can see the flag of israel flying next to the American flag on a daily basis. It is no secret who's agenda our tax dollars promote.

I see nothing wrong with that, per se.

I called my first fire chief that morning and we both agreed that "something ain't right" about this.

Gut feeling. Not a very good tool in investigation, unless you're Columbo.

Maybe that made it easier for me to see past the smoke at Ground Zero and notice the smoke/smog saturating the skies in the background and look for the "overall" problem.

Simultaneously ignoring the true perpetrators ?

The unnoticed loss of life that takes place in this country on a daily basis from CUREABLE diseases is staggering, considering the "fact" that, according to official reports... no cure exist.

Interesting you say this. Two years ago I broke my big toe on my right foot. Not long afterwards I had ingrown nail problems so last year I had it operated. It was supposed to be a one-time deal and be done with it. But about an hour ago I returned from ANOTHER operation to the SAME toe because the damn root of the nail had decided to not cooperate with the doctor. Medecine isn't mathematics; it's a complex thing. If a simple ingrown nail can cause problems, how can you possibly believe that those other, much more complicated problems are so easily solved ?

We ARE all ONE, and in this country, we are not far from suffocating ourselves.

I'm Canadian, thanks. Lots of people from the UK, here, too. And from around the world. Perhaps you should forego that preaching part.

[T.A.M.]

I've said it before: I dare any of these 'Cancer cures are being supressed by doctors' crowd to go up to a medical professional who works in the Cancer ward of a hospital (one of the most depressing jobs in medicine as I understand it). They should then explain their theory, with full inclusion that they consider the people working in the Cancer ward to be just as culpable.

They might then reconsider their flakey opinions while their face is being reattached.

Still Off Topic (sorry guys):
I had a women in her mid 40's come in to me the other day. She has been my patient for 2 years now. I had to tell her that she has Cancer, and that it has gone so far, there is no cure...One of the hardest things I do...

I have worked on a Cancer floor. I have worked in the pediatric oncology unit...you think telling a woman in her 40's she has cancer is hard...try telling the parents of 6 year old that there son has a Wilm's Tumor...I thought I would actually throw up that day...and it is hard to make me sick...

That is why when I hear this **** it makes me mad. I know Submersible isnt blaming The professionals that administer the care, but we are the ones who work with the drug companies. I have been involved in control trials, and other medical studies sponsored by the drug companies. They provide numerous advantages to patients and Doctors. Gone are the days where they take you out for weekend excursions...drug companies provide Doctors with Free education, they provide them with tonnes of free medical samples for those who cannot afford their meds. They develop new drugs that help fight serious illnesses.

Are they in it for the money...you bet..isn't that what capitalism is all about. But they also do a lot of good, which of course, few people point out.

Like I said before, there is no "cure" for almost all cancers, except surgical excision, which is done all the time. The rest is life extension...buying time...and thanks to these drug comanies, we can buy alot more time.

I could spend a whole hour talking about this...but we are way off topic. If another "Drug" CT thread starts, I will resume it there...

TAM

[Belz...]

Dylan reckons he has uncovered a new smoking gun: 'videos of flashes going off inside WTC7 hours before collapse' http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12256&st=0&#entry7076466

Watch the video however(a hefty 79mb for 11 seconds of footage) and it looks like something fusing. A big load of nothing.

... HOURS ???

[MarkyX]

Marky, is there a link to help me find your YouTube videos, or were you waiting for final validation before posting it?

I can wait ....
:)

It's already up.

http://lol.chroniclesofgaras.com/scl_videos.html

[realitybites]

... HOURS ???
I guess we can add Acme's Magic "Wait For It" Time-Released Explosive Effect Charges to the list of non-existant technology needed to bolster the CT version of events.

[Alareth]

Well it's obvious that WTC7 had been exposed to Submersibles food additives making it too stupid to realize it was supposed to fall down after the CD charges went off.

[T.A.M.]

Dylan reckons he has uncovered a new smoking gun: 'videos of flashes going off inside WTC7 hours before collapse' http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...&#entry7076466

Watch the video however(a hefty 79mb for 11 seconds of footage) and it looks like something fusing. A big load of nothing

No doubt this will be their new "smoking gun". Meanwhile, do they even stop to think...(1) Buildings that are demolished, do not do so HOURS after you set off the explosives, (2) To properly demolish a building, the explosives are place on every floor...so where are the flashes on every floor, (3) Sploding transformers, Power surges to overhead lights, exploding aerisol containers, the list goes on, of what can cause large flashes, (4) were there any audio "Explosions" shortly after (sound lags light) the "flashes".

Then again, do we expect such OBVIOUS, LOGICAL, questions from the morons that are LTW Inc...

[CptColumbo]

Gut feeling. Not a very good tool in investigation, unless you're Columbo.

Hey now, let's not say things we can't take back. Columbo would start with a gut feeling (as you say, he would use it as a tool) and gather evidence to prove or disprove it, using experts in the fields that he knew nothing about. He rarely voiced his theories until he had all the facts and evidence to prove his theory (and the show was about to end), or was directly asked by a superior. Of course, it is a TV show.

Some CTers start with the gut feeling, and don't do any futher investigation. Others will investigate only the evidence that supports their theory, and ignore any other evidence.

[apathoid]

It's already up.

http://lol.chroniclesofgaras.com/scl_videos.html

Great work as always Marky. Keep it up bro!

[T.A.M.]

For starters, both flashes come out of same window. Secondly, given there are other smaller "reflective" changes in other areas on the surface of this building, it could be light reflecting off glass.

As well, can we tell from the video if it in fact WTC 7?

Are we suppose to have believed that only CD Explosions occured in a highrise building that was on fire for 7 hours. So nothing else could have caused those "Flashes" that have no audio "boom" attached...once again, go look at the "landmark" tower Cd, and turn the volume up...now repeat after me...

"CD involves loud noises....CD involves loud noises....CD involves loud noises..."

[60hzxtl]

... HOURS ???

AhA!

Sequence of events:

Explosion.

hourshourshours

Building fall down.

So, not at freefall speed eh?

(Faster than the speed of GRAVITY!)

Do-Over!

[WildCat]

The loosers have made a shocking discovery, these may be my last days. Apparently the evil folks who brought you 9/11 are going to blow up Chicago Thursday (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12323). If I die in the inferno, I hope all you here avenge my death!

I'd leave town, but well, you know, traffic and the price of gas and all...

eta: another looser thread on the subject (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12298).

[Pardalis]

Great work as always Marky. Keep it up bro!

Ditto. :D

[Alareth]

The loosers have made a shocking discovery, these may be my last days. Apparently the evil folks who brought you 9/11 are going to blow up Chicago Thursday (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12323). If I die in the inferno, I hope all you here avenge my death!

I'd leave town, but well, you know, traffic and the price of gas and all...

eta: another looser thread on the subject (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12298).

I love the citation about chemsuits from elsewhere on LC and how it can't be found for verification.

[60hzxtl]

The loosers have made a shocking discovery, these may be my last days. Apparently the evil folks who brought you 9/11 are going to blow up Chicago Thursday (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12323). If I die in the inferno, I hope all you here avenge my death!

I'd leave town, but well, you know, traffic and the price of gas and all...

eta: another looser thread on the subject (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12298).

Can I have your desert?

[T.A.M.]

of course, jdhammer and wakingupamy solidify the Consipracy theory way of thinking on the matter...

1. If it happens, we were right...we predicted it...cover up.
2. If it doesnt happen, then they were on to us, and put it off cause they knew we knew...lol

Just F&*king priceless...welcome to the Neanderthals of the Internet.

TAM

[Alareth]

It's unfair to demean Neanderthals like that. I demand an apology.

[Jennie C.]

The loosers have made a shocking discovery, these may be my last days. Apparently the evil folks who brought you 9/11 are going to blow up Chicago Thursday (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12323). If I die in the inferno, I hope all you here avenge my death!

I'd leave town, but well, you know, traffic and the price of gas and all...

Oh no! My hubby is coming to Chicago tomorrow, for a Circus Fans convention. They wouldn't blow up circus fans, would they? ;)

(where's the tongue-in-cheek smiley?)

[T.A.M.]

Found this little tidbit (albeit by someone listed as Anonymous) as a reply to th e"George Washington" Blog on 9/11:

The link to the blog articl follows the quote...

Anonymous said...

Stratesec was briefly one of my clients. My employment was with an insurance broker and my role for Stratesec was to broker for them a surety bond line of credit from an insurance company. A surety bond is a third-party guarantee of a legal obligation - no connection or relationship to bonds in the sense of stocks and bonds. In this instance, the main purpose of the surety bond line of credit was to provide tender (bid) security and peformance and payment bonds to guarantee contracts for security systems work.

Stratesec came to my employer because the insurance company, Frontier, was broke. In a nutshell, Frontier had had too many contractors go broke and it cost them too much money in their claims from project owners.

Stratesec's first name was Securecom. Another firm had that name, so it was changed. Securecom was a spin-off from a security company named Burns. KuwAm, a firm controlled by Mishal Youself Soud Al Sabah, a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, initially controlled Securecom directly and indirectly with 90% of shares. Other shareholders included President Geo. Bush's brother, Marvin Bush; Wirt Walker III (a cousin); Lt. General James Abrahamson USAF and Emmit J. McHenry, chairman of NetCom. McHenry's firm, Network Solutions Inc. (NSI), acquired by VeriSign in 2000 for $15 billion, developed the internet domain registry on a grant from the National Science Foundation. Abrahamson was appointed by Reagan to head the Strategic Defense Initiative or "Star Wars" program and I believe that he may have commanded the Air Force in the Persian Gulf War.

Albeit closely held, Securecom / Stratesec was a public company. 10-K and 10-Q documents are thus available online and they include much of this background information.

KuwAm repeatedly pumped additional capital into Stratesec to the tune of about $20 million to cover repeated annual losses. The official story is that Stratesec's original business plan was to increase revenue faster than the profit curve in order to rapidly acquire market share and thereby become a dominant national security firm. Actually, the term "systems integrator" is more appropriate.

A contract to install systems at the WTC towers was identified as a major problem. Contract losses reportedly resulted from problems in developing custom software that they subcontracted to a group of Berkely professors. Its President, blamed for the losses, left when that chapter was closed.

I discussed the WTC contract with Barry McDaniels, Stratesec's last President. He told me that acquisition of the WTC contract had been negotiated by Ron Thomas, his predecessor. McDaniels said that all of the people involved in the matter were gone, that the contract was poorly documented and that, in consequence, nobody understood it well enough to discuss it, so it just wasn't worth delving into. He said that Thomas did not delegate adequately but instead carried a lot of information concerning the contract in his head and that he wasn't available to discuss it either. Thomas had left with a golden parachute that included shares and and a consulting contract for which he had to do virtually nothing. This conversation with McDaniels was in 2000.

I suggest that an appropriate area of research might be to obtain 1) a copy of the contract to determine precisely what sort of equipment and software Stratesec was to install and 2) obtain a copy of the subcontract with the Berkley professors.

Another of Stratesec's major contracts at the time was installing security systems at TVA facilities. Maybe a dam or two will blow up next time.


Very interesting...

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/11/how-could-they-plant-bombs-in-world.html

TAM

[Brainster]

The loosers have made a shocking discovery, these may be my last days. Apparently the evil folks who brought you 9/11 are going to blow up Chicago Thursday (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12323). If I die in the inferno, I hope all you here avenge my death!

I'd leave town, but well, you know, traffic and the price of gas and all...

eta: another looser thread on the subject (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12298).

Usual poor math skills from the Loosers; 3/11/04 was not 911 days after 9/11/01, it was 912 days, and 3/11/04 plus 911 days is not 9/7/06, it's 9/8/06.

[sat556]

Sorry if I'm late on this, but has anyone else seen 'Moose Change'?

I love the copyright message at the end :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqVdESOo6D4

[T.A.M.]

Now my new all time favorite spoof film...that was f&*King Hillarious. I almost wet myself...no really...no...but still.

Awesome job, who ever made it...

MOOSE CHANGE ROCKS!!!!

:crowded: :jaw-dropp :blush: :( :p :eek: (and one more to make chuck happy):cool:

[nathanmcginty]

When I turn in a production to Discovery or History Channel, we turn in a "production book" Usually a 3 ring binder containing: signed releases from the subjects on camera (not necessary for news)

Signed releases for the location -- (if I've used a museum etc. as a background.)

Listing of all music, if it is not original to the production, then performance rights, publisher rights, and copyright information, along with the letter of clearance.

Same for stock footage, and stills.

Copy of an insurance policy called "errors and omissions" in case I screwed up any of the stuff above, and the broadcaster gets sued.

Failing to do that, subjects the film maker AND the broadcaster to copyright violations and the penalty is $10k PER instance.

Lawyers are your partners these days as a film maker. And film school doesn't cover that part enough because it's dull.

Film making is a BUSINESS. Business first, art second. You might get a grant to make a film, but Kodak gets cash up front.

(want to know how to make a small fortune as a documentary maker? Start with a large one. . . )

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. How in the hell are these guys getting away with licensing their stuff? I know that other countries are a little different in their copyright laws, but...I mean - correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm pretty sure that very first helicopter shot in LC is swiped directly from one of those HBO docs, not to mention the Frenchie footage, the stuff taken from CNN, Google earth screenshots (those are all public domain now??), I just don't get it...

[NDBoston]

Jason Bermas, Dylan Avery and Killtown are hosting some show on Republic Network right now.

What a trainwreck.

[T.A.M.]

Seems now one of the biggies, Paul Watson over at prisonplanet is calling for a distancing by all Troofers from the "No Plane/Hollograph Plane" theory. The big question now, is where does this leave the keebler elf lady and Mr. Cloaker? WIll they abandon the theory, or will they take their toys and leave the playground?

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/050906fringetheories.htm

TAM

[LashL]

Jason Bermas, Dylan Avery and Killtown are hosting some show on Republic Network right now.

What a trainwreck.

Aha - I'm glad someone else heard part of it, too. I caught only about the last 15 minutes of it and it was pathetic.

[LashL]

Here's a new thread at LC that won't last long, nor will the poster, I'm sure:

9/11 "truth"
LordCarbo


There is no 9/11 conspiracy.

What could the government possibly gain from this?

If so many people, so many US citizens, were behind something this huge and deadly, don't you think someone would of let it slip beforehand?

Do you people even consider any of the countertheories? Most of them totally demolish any of these dumb conspiracies.


I hope the government flies planes into all of your homes.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12398&hl=

[orphia nay]

MarkyX, could you post that picture of a real controlled demolition that's in your 'Frequently Stupid Theories' pdf for Submersible, since he's having trouble with text? I'm not using my own pc at the moment, so I don't have the document handy, but I think it was on about page 34, and it shows evenly spaced 'squibs' half-way or more up the building and it's beginning to collapse from the bottom up.
Great document, by the way.

[MarkyX]

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/1338/image022up8.jpg

This one?

[orphia nay]

Yep. Thanks! That was quick. Cheers. :)

[orphia nay]

T.A.M., I noticed in a couple of your recent posts (all of which I enjoy reading) you could have used some text formatting buttons in your Quick Reply field (though you found the smilies in your last one so you may have already worked this out - if so, please ignore me).
If you or anyone else is interested, to do this, go to User CP (top of this page), then 'Edit Options' (side left), then down to Miscellaneous Options. In the Message Editor Interface, select Standard (or even Enhanced, though I haven't tried that).

[T.A.M.]

Thanks for the info. Seems I already am in that mode.

I have used it as needed. My big problem seems to be around getting quotes put in properly...

[StoneWT]

Seems now one of the biggies, Paul Watson over at prisonplanet is calling for a distancing by all Troofers from the "No Plane/Hollograph Plane" theory. The big question now, is where does this leave the keebler elf lady and Mr. Cloaker? WIll they abandon the theory, or will they take their toys and leave the playground?

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/sep...getheories.htm (http://prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/050906fringetheories.htm)


Watson has no problem with a kooky CT if it fools enough people. His chief criterion is people not buying the malarkey. If that happens, he suddenly becomes a debunker.

[orphia nay]

Cheers, T.A.M.
The 'Insert Quote' button looks like this: http://www.randi.org/forumlive/images/editor/quote.gif
which is in between the 'Insert Image' and 'Smilies' buttons.

[orphia nay]

MarkyX, I forgot to ask - what's the name of that building in the pic?

[MarkyX]

MarkyX, I forgot to ask - what's the name of that building in the pic?

I really don't know.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I really don't know.

Dontcha think that's kind of a weird name for a building?

[Alareth]

Now my new all time favorite spoof film...that was f&*King Hillarious. I almost wet myself...no really...no...but still.

Awesome job, who ever made it...

MOOSE CHANGE ROCKS!!!!

:crowded: :jaw-dropp :blush: :( :p :eek: (and one more to make chuck happy):cool:

Moose Change - Dylan Avery Speaks (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12404)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqVdESOo6D4

And we're the ********?


Why yes Dylan, I believe that is the first truthful thing I've heard you say.

[brumsen]

No doubt this will be their new "smoking gun". Meanwhile, do they even stop to think...[...]. (2) To properly demolish a building, the explosives are place on every floor...so where are the flashes on every floor
Here is something that I do not understand; perhaps someone could clear it up for me?
How could it BOTH be obvious that
(a) in the case of WTC1 and WTC2, the collapse was going to continue all the way down once one (or perhaps a couple) of floors were destroyed, and
(b) point 2 above?

I mean...it would then make sense with such buildings to blow up just one or two floors to perform a CD, would it not?

[R.Mackey]

Here is something that I do not understand; perhaps someone could clear it up for me?
How could it BOTH be obvious that
(a) in the case of WTC1 and WTC2, the collapse was going to continue all the way down once one (or perhaps a couple) of floors were destroyed, and
(b) point 2 above?

I mean...it would then make sense with such buildings to blow up just one or two floors to perform a CD, would it not?
Hello again, brumsen.

Nope, makes no sense at all. Not unless you think the way the WTC towers came down would be an acceptable commercial controlled demolition.

Blow just one floor and they'd collapse, true (unless you blew very close to the top, perhaps), but most CDs try not to destroy ten other buildings and make a huge flaming pile of debris. The more structural elements you destroy, the more control you have. QED.

[Grundar]

Moose Change - Dylan Avery Speaks (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12404)



Why yes Dylan, I believe that is the first truthful thing I've heard you say.

And from the same thread by global moderator Cary:
Okay, dabigkid. You got yourself an indefinite suspension with recommendation for a permanent ban. Drag your dumbass, shitwitted claims elsewhere. This isn't a debate forum you nimrod.

yes definatly not a debate forum so why even have one? great way to find the truth.

note: dabigkid got perma suspended/banned after thees three posts 1. mod edit:spam
2. spam
3.ok, bigkid, to your opinion, who was behind 9/11 ?

A third party, not affiliated with the USA government in anyway. I don't know who exactly, but I know who wasn't.


/Hans

[Submersible]

To the best of my knowledge the jury's still out on aspartame. I hate the taste, though..

http://www.rense.com/general33/legal.htm
The "Bressler Report" is an interesting read, it's not that I don't like to read or that I am too lazy to invest the time to investigate these reports "properly".. I've read and seen enough to accept reality for what it is.
http://www.dorway.com/bressler.html


Liar. We're very much aware that 1/3 people are affected by cancer (whether of not that statistics is true.) And I'm still waiting on your evidence for that food thing..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_somatotropin
I understand that you are having some trouble questioning the "official" reports, but if you spend a little bit of time looking at the facts contained on the "organicconsumers" page that explains the TRUE history of MONSANTO, then you can go back to the wiki definition of r(BGH) and swallow the fact that the science giant of the world is in fact lying.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.html
Make sure you scroll down to the bottom left hand side of that page for some lovely mug shots. :jaw-dropp
And there is about two or three dozen more that I can list for you that have walked through the "revolving door" that have played an important part in our genetic rape... but they eat a little further down the line.
lemme know if your interested, I can rattle that shiite off like a "professional".
:rolleyes:



Everything is derived from natural stuff. Please provide your evidence that it "cures cancer"..

Everything is not derived from natural stuff anymore.

http://reason.com/bi/franken1.gif
http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/P/0275978796.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_V51201250_.jpg
http://reason.com/bi/bi-gmf.shtml

http://www.ethicalinvesting.com/monsanto/terminator.shtml

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0126-07.htm




Cancer isn't "cured" like the common cold. I would venture to say that the natural tendency of ALL cells is to be cancerous. There are mechanisms that prevent this, for obvious reasons, but this means that the slightest damage to a cell's genetic structure can cause cancer..

http://health.centreforce.com/health/laetrile.html


But they WERE released..

Do you have an image of a 757 on approach to the pentagon before it crashed ? Didn't that plane make a U-turn and show up on three or four other closed circuit cameras that were swiftly collected by the "men in black" ? Where are they?



You were correct, and thank you. Do you deny that explosions can be the result of things that aren't explosives ?
.


Sure.


Well, I'm sorry if reading makes your mind numb, but to me, the analysis of people whose expertise far exceeds mine is much more reliable than videos that I am not qualified to interpret..

Well, maybe I AM qualified to interpret them, or at least give my opinion that for some reason inspires so many of you to insult or disagree with me because of what you have read in some REPORT. Maybe after you read some of the official USG reports concerning certain deadly chemicals in families dinner table.



Wrong. The steel HAD to be taken away. The planes HAD to be taken away. You can't just let these things sit there forever..

Well maybe they can get ahold of that high speed RECYCLING machine and send it on down to N.O... the least FEMA could let them do is borrow it dontcha think?!
http://www.hpsupplies.info/images/Lo-Landfill.jpg
http://www.hpsupplies.info/images/Lo-Landfill.jpg

And as far as the planes being taken away, it doesn't look like there was enough left of flight 93 to put in a wheel-barrow.


They MAKE people ignorant ? Honestly, I don't know how that would happen. Do they decrease the intelligence, or remove memories, or what ? In either case, please provide evidence that this is the case. A double-blind test would be appreciated..

My double blind test machine is on the fritz, but since you still can't see how most of this puzzle fits together maybe it will help if you invest the time to read the links and analyze the information from the only blog I've ever written, and you can come up with a reply to that "overall picture".
My little sister told me recently that most people are unable to understand that "expression" because either they knew me previously and it was somewhat foreign coming from me, or they just didn't know how to respond because they couldn't accept the fact that we have been intentionally misled, so blatantly.

http://is-this-the-american-way.blogspot.com/2006/05/science-is-key.html

I spent three months in federal custody and am currently awaiting trial for discussing the solution to the problems in that blog ONCE on the telephone.It's a little bit "heated" and I guess you could say I've matured since then.:boxedin:
I didn't like prison. AT ALL.
(and no I didn't get punked)


I'm Canadian, thanks. Lots of people from the UK, here, too. And from around the world. Perhaps you should forego that preaching part.

Thanks, last time I checked Canada and the UK were both still considered as being on EARTH.

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/1338/image022up8.jpg

This one?

And you see no similarities in these two images ?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fema/fig-5-23a.jpg

Anybody got a picture or written explanation for why the structural integrity of this building failed in the center of the structure?
Thankyouverymuch!

I've said it before: I dare any of these 'Cancer cures are being supressed by doctors' crowd to go up to a medical professional who works in the Cancer ward of a hospital (one of the most depressing jobs in medicine as I understand it). They should then explain their theory, with full inclusion that they consider the people working in the Cancer ward to be just as culpable.

They might then reconsider their flakey opinions while their face is being reattached.

That's just it!
Look at your "stand" against me !
Do you honestly think that one person or a small campaign of people could take a stand against the entire medical world? Do you think the pharmacutical companies would allow something a simple as B-17 to put a dent in their Trillion dollar game of "medical monopoly" ?

Vitamin B17 was the subject of great controversy over 20 years ago when some of the world's top scientists claimed that when consumed, the components of the seed make it 100% impossible to develop cancer and will kill existing cancer in most cases. The pharmaceutical companies pounced on this claim immediately and demanded that FDA studies be conducted. The results of these studies are found in the book "World Without Cancer", by G. Edward Griffin.
The pharmaceuticals companies together with the medical establishment pushed the FDA into makingit illegal to sell "raw" apricot seeds or vitamin B17 with information about its effects on cancer. Even to this day, you can't get raw apricot seeds in your health food store, only the sun dried ones which have all the important enzymes killed off.


Why can't you buy raw apricot seeds in this country?

Submersible:OFF TOPIC

B-17 is crap. Show me one <b>double blind control trial </b>that proves it <b>cures</b> cancer, just one, in a respected journal, and I will give it further consideration. For it to cure cancer, I would want to see 10 year follow up studies on the same patients who got it, showing NO SIGN of cancer. Other wise, at most it would be a natural Chemo agent, and nothing more.

TAM

You drive a hard bargain lady, do you at least find it "FISHY" that natural apricot seeds are illegal in this country? ?

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/07/12/fda_vs_jason_and_vitamin_b17.htm

Three questions, submersible:

1) Is your real name Kevin Trudeau?
negative.

2) Why do you disrespect professionalism?
because we are all lost like a fart in a windstorm.

3) What do you think about chemtrails?
I might look up the definition if it's not too late when I get finished responding to all of these compliments

If it is on the news "on a daily basis," you should have no trouble producing multiple photos.


I haven't watched the news since I got out of jail, but it was flying in the background before I went in... and it was still there the day before I got released.

How do you explain people like me, who think 9/11 happened pretty much the way the official story claims (minor tweaks, here and there) but doesn't consume American food, thus isn't controlled by your strange mind-drugs?

Other than Posilac, the herbicides pesticides and fertilizer monopoly that exist in this country effects us all on a worldwide scale. There are 4 or 5 "Gene Giants" in the world and they have all chosen to "treat" the population of the world with the same recipe.
There are a few countries that do not permit (GE) food or seeds.


Oh so the NWO's objective is to kill all Americans via cancer? Why?


It's all about the benjamins, money that is.


I find your comments about VERY disturbing. You clearly lack the least degree of understanding of the scenario in question, and yet you arrogantly think you know better than the experts who study these sorts of things for a job.

No. no . no . no. no .
I don't claim to KNOW anything friend.
I'm simply discussing some of the CT issues that ya'll apparently have been involved with for quite a long time now, and my opinion obviously isn't that popular.
seriously, ya'll don't KNOW what happened either.
MOST of you are simply going by the reports or "stories" that you've read from sources that promote your side of the coin.


What footage would this be? From what cameras?

The convience store, the DMV, and the hotel next door.


No, this is a forum of intelligent people who realise that looking at a bunch of videos tells you very little about what is going on. It is a bunch of people who realise just how misleading images can be. It's a bunch of people who respect those that have studied a given field enough to become experts in it.

Well there you go, you just summed it all up for me.
I don't believe that images and video footage that I've crossreferenced with everybody's "offerings" is misleading.
And I don't respect the majority of the people who are in charge of making decisions in this country, especially the "experts". As a matter of fact, I've found them to be VERY misleading.


On the historical scale, 9/11 is smallfry. "Greatest crime of all times"? Please. Push your American ego aside for a moment and take a brief trip down history lane.


Your right, I was wrong for saying that... but hey this little war ain't over with yet and there is no talk around the coffee pot concerning an "exit strategy".


Why do you keep going with this line of reasoning? The majority of physical evidence has repeatedly been presented. When was it "erased"?


Where is it? Why was all of the evidence that would PROVE that 19 muslims "attacked" this country destroyed or made unavailable to the American public. Of the few images that do exist, some of them are very misleading because they don't belong to the plane that supposedly crashed at the scene, or show a plume of smoke that flight 93 supposedly "vaporized" in.. including all of the passengers teeth.




"It's not my fault I'm stupid, honest, the government made me like this."
ditto.





You're right. A bunch of fantatical terrorists slaughtered nearly 3,000 civilians for the sake of their sick ideology. "Something ain't right" is a major understatement.

-Andrew

And there hasn't been one fanatical terrorist to be found in this country since then eventho' the American war machine is in their home land destroying and taking the lives of a few hundred thousand innocent women and children.
You better believe it ! Something ain't right about that.
Do you ever wonder what it will be like if "we the people" are wrong for funding that, and we have to pay for it in hell or our children have to pay for it on Earth?
brrr


And just where should the enormous volume of material have been stored? Should they have carted it all off and kept it on a lot in the desert? Should they have vacuumed New York and kept all the dust?

Anywhere ! It certainly shouldn't have been destroyed.


You must have gotten a double dose, some how. The rest of the world is not eating "mind control food" from the US government, and they still accept the official conclusions.

Oh yeah, I got a double dose but that was a long time ago.
And you are wrong about what the rest of the world is eating and the source of science behind the "entiey" that controls over 80% of the SEED in this world.




Anti-semitism?
Naah.. not really.



Don't exist. Repeat after me: Don't exist. B17 (Laetrile) is not a wonder cure for cancer. Most Germans won't even believe that, and they'll swallow homeopathy, chiropracty, accupuncture, and blood crystal analyisis along with using pendulums to select the correct medication.

See above links. or google "B-17" and try to pretend that the FDA is not controlled by ANGELS and it is quite possible that they LIE to U.S.... sometimes.


It is obvious that submersible doesn't eat. Since the food makes everyone believe everything the government says, and submersible doesn't believe, it follows that submersible doesn't eat. Unless he grows his own, of course.
That is my goal.


Just a little note:
If the food made everyone so gullible, then they would be responsive to every suggestion, not just the ones from the government.

We are idiots for allowing about 100 different ingredients to keep flowing into our food supply. The patent ran out on aspartame, a Japanese company owns the rights to it now and they can't even sell it in their country.
It is still produced right next door to Posilac on Lovers lane in Agusta Georgia, if for some reason you ever wanted to take a ride and look at this nations greatest source of preventable death.


NOTE: If you want to continue this OFF TOPIC discussion any further please send a PM because I'm not to keep responding to issues that have nothing to do with this thread. eventho' I enjoy it.
Thank you for your time. :cool:

[orphia nay]

Why can't you buy raw apricot seeds in this country?

You can if you order online... knock yourself out (http://www.puttingitright.com.au/ckshop.php?item=2558&ret=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.puttingitright.com.au%2Fcksho p.php%3Fpage%3D1%26keyword%3Dorganic%2Bapricot%2Bk ernels).
:rolleyes:

Orphia Nay's handy Health Warning: "Organic" doesn't mean they're not toxic... for that to be the case, they'd have to be.... hold on to your hats.... Genetically Modified. DUNH DUH DUH! The conspiracy deepens!!!

[MortFurd]

Why can't you buy raw apricot seeds in this country?



You drive a hard bargain lady, do you at least find it "FISHY" that natural apricot seeds are illegal in this country? ?



Not suspicious in the slightest that it is hard to get raw apricot seeds:
Cyanide poisoning information. (http://www.inchem.org/documents/antidote/antidote/ant02.htm) Note especially that Laetrile (B17) has caused deaths through cyanide poisoning. I also see that lima beans are on par with apricot seeds (9 and 10 mg/100g,) and that tapioca puts them both to shame (245g/100g.)

That's it for lima beans for me. Luckily I never liked apricot pits or tapioca.

Lest you think the previous site is part of a US conspiracy, here is a German site (http://www.giftpflanzen.com/prunoidae.html) that mentions the poisonous effects of apricot seeds.

[MortFurd]

You can if you order online... knock yourself out (http://www.puttingitright.com.au/ckshop.php?item=2558&ret=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.puttingitright.com.au%2Fcksho p.php%3Fpage%3D1%26keyword%3Dorganic%2Bapricot%2Bk ernels).
:rolleyes:

Orphia Nay's handy Health Warning: "Organic" doesn't mean they're not toxic... for that to be the case, they'd have to be.... hold on to your hats.... Genetically Modified. DUNH DUH DUH! The conspiracy deepens!!!

"Organic" dosen't mean non-toxic anyway. Think deadly nightshade, jimson weed, opium poppies. All natural and all poisonous.

[Brainache]

"Organic" dosen't mean non-toxic anyway. Think deadly nightshade, jimson weed, opium poppies. All natural and all poisonous.

Yeah we've got some bloody organic spiders snakes and jellyfish down here in Aus. As far as I know they don't produce their venom in factories.

[MortFurd]

Yeah we've got some bloody organic spiders snakes and jellyfish down here in Aus. As far as I know they don't produce their venom in factories.
Same goes for the delightful rattle snakes, cotton mouths, and black widow spiders in the US.

"Get 'yer all natural 1000% ;) biological snake oil, er, snake venom here!"

[MarkyX]

nd you see no similarities in these two images ?


No.


Everything is not derived from natural stuff anymore.


Wow....

So you are one of those types that thing there is rat genes or fish genes in our foods.

You do know the sole reason that we are able to feed so many people is because of modified foods to produce a larger yield on crops, right? If we went back to natural growing, there would be literally millions of people dying due to food shortages.

Norman Borlaugh created a modified high-yield wheat in Mexico, India, and Pakistan. He even travelled around Africa. When he won the noble peace prize in 1977, they claimed that he saved over a billion people because of his work.

B. Billion. Not million.

I guess it's easy to complain about modified foods since you are not the one starving to death.

[chipmunk stew]

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fema/fig-5-23a.jpg

Anybody got a picture or written explanation for why the structural integrity of this building failed in the center of the structure?
Thankyouverymuch!
This isn't final yet, but it does have both picture and written explanations:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%20IIC%20-%20WTC%207%20Collapse%20Final.pdf

[kookbreaker]

That's just it!
Look at your "stand" against me !
Do you honestly think that one person or a small campaign of people could take a stand against the entire medical world?

Cancer drug development requires the asisstance of cancer treating doctors. Without them, there would be no development of said drugs. That means that if any 'cure' is being supressed or hidden it either didn't work in the first place or the pharmacuetical companies managed to test it on nothing.

Either that, or the cancer treating doctors of the world are all part of the conspiracy since they all tested the drugs, and then helped the drug companies hide the results.

Go ahead, go tell those doctors that is what they did. Go tell them that they are letting memebers of their own family die and watching innumerable patients suffer for a few bucks. Go ahead, tell them that is what they did you snivelling emotional coward. Back your words and conspriacy goombah nonsense with actual confrontations with the people who effecrtive accuse. Go on, do it! Stop hiding behind your keyboard playing with conpsiracy accusations the way a moron plays with his own feces. Get out and see how the world really works, not how some conspiracy guru tells you how it works. Learn how your stupid, thoughtless comments aimed to stab at some perceived injustice actually accuse many hard working people of the medical community of letting people suffer.


Do you think the pharmacutical companies would allow something a simple as B-17 to put a dent in their Trillion dollar game of "medical monopoly" ?

Do you think you can hide a cure you've tested? All the blinding in the world can't hide an outright cure for cancer.

[chipmunk stew]

I haven't watched the news since I got out of jail, but it was flying in the background before I went in... and it was still there the day before I got released.
Mind satisfying my curiosity? What were you in for?

[MortFurd]

Mind satisfying my curiosity? What were you in for?
For this, he claims:

My double blind test machine is on the fritz, but since you still can't see how most of this puzzle fits together maybe it will help if you invest the time to read the links and analyze the information from the only blog I've ever written, and you can come up with a reply to that "overall picture".
My little sister told me recently that most people are unable to understand that "expression" because either they knew me previously and it was somewhat foreign coming from me, or they just didn't know how to respond because they couldn't accept the fact that we have been intentionally misled, so blatantly.

http://is-this-the-american-way.blogspot.com/2006/05/science-is-key.html

I spent three months in federal custody and am currently awaiting trial for discussing the solution to the problems in that blog ONCE on the telephone.It's a little bit "heated" and I guess you could say I've matured since then.:boxedin:
I didn't like prison. AT ALL.
(and no I didn't get punked)

[WildCat]

For this, he claims:
I'm guessing he made threatening phone calls.

[chipmunk stew]

For this, he claims:
I don't understand. Did he call Monsanto threatening to bomb it or something?

[MortFurd]

He says discussing it on the phone once.

Whether what Submersible calls a discussion is what you or I would call a threat is an open question that Submersible will have to answer.


I greatly suspect we will be told it was a normal discussion and that he was arrested for daring to buck the status quo.:rolleyes:

[Gravy]

And as far as the planes being taken away, it doesn't look like there was enough left of flight 93 to put in a wheel-barrow.
Question: what the hell is wrong with you?

I've already posted these links for you. Are you playing dumb, or is it too much of a bother for you to click some links?

****
At Shanksville, which was by far the smallest of the three crash scenes, over 1,100 people from 74 agencies and organizations were on the scene.

On 9/11 alone, these included:

• 8 Police Departments
• 7 EMS Services
• 8 Fire Departments
• 10 Emergency Management Agencies
• NTSB
• ATF
• FBI
• CISM
• Red Cross
• United Airlines

Some information from, and about, agencies that were on the scene.

http://tinyurl.com/f83mb
http://tinyurl.com/k3jhx
http://tinyurl.com/jx3u7
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/emergency/pictures/091201d.htm
http://www.epa.gov/region7/news_events/events/proceedings/lepc-terc_conference_august2005/Plenary/flight93.pdf (this site is good when the link works, which it doesn't always.)

Then there's the fact that most of the plane was recovered, examined for signs of explosives by the FBI, and turned over to United Airlines (except for the black boxes, which went to the NTSB).
http://tinyurl.com/hmbjm
http://tinyurl.com/z7ume

Remains from every victim were recovered and positively identified.
http://tinyurl.com/4hpaq

Have further questions about victim ID? Why not ask Paul Sledzik, who led the Flight 93 Disaster Mortuary Team, or Dr. Dennis C. Dirkmaat, who was Miller's chief scientific advisor?
http://tinyurl.com/mzkp6

The personal effects of most victims were recovered and returned to the families.
http://tinyurl.com/erazm

The phone calls made from the plane:
http://tinyurl.com/j4zjv
http://tinyurl.com/h4u44

Photo of Airfone from flight 93 crash scene
http://tinyurl.com/qnd8l

The Air Traffic Control recordings and accounts.
http://tinyurl.com/ncwf9
http://tinyurl.com/qg3ht

The Cockpit Voice Recorder recording transcript: http://tinyurl.com/rxe8a
Photo of CVR: http://tinyurl.com/lulmt

The Flight Data Recorder recording.
http://tinyurl.com/myayp
Photo of FDR: http://tinyurl.com/osa7m

The NORAD recordings.
http://tinyurl.com/rc2dn

The numerous witnesses on the ground (these are just a few accounts.)

"There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud."
http://tinyurl.com/m347n

Then Peterson said he saw a fireball, heard an explosion and saw a mushroom cloud of smoke rise into the sky.

Peterson rushed to the scene on an all-terrain vehicle and when he arrived he saw bits and pieces of an airliner spread over a large area of an abandoned strip-mine in Stonycreek Township.

"There was a crater in the ground that was really burning," Peterson said. Strewn about were pieces of clothing hanging from trees and parts of the Boeing 757, but nothing bigger than a couple of feet long, he said. Many of the items were burning.
http://tinyurl.com/fa75e

"I just watched with my mouth open as this yellow mushroom cloud rose up just like an atomic bomb over the hill where I like to go hunting," said 72- year-old John Walsh. [Say, maybe it was an A-Bomb!]

Barefoot and in his bathrobe, he drove up the dirt road to rescue anyone he could find. There would be nothing he could do.

Debris, including photographs and other papers that survived the fireball, was strewn over a wide area. Residents have spent days collecting it.
http://tinyurl.com/oapxx

"When the plane hit, it sounded like something just fell on the roof. Everybody sort of panicked," she said. "I went to the window and saw all this smoke coming up and I just pointed and screamed."
http://tinyurl.com/rl5qc

Charles Sturtz, 53, who lives just over the hillside from the crash site, said a fireball 200 feet high shot up over the hill. He got to the crash scene even before the firefighters.
http://tinyurl.com/rl5qc

Bob Blair was completing a routine drive to Shade Creek just after 10 a.m. Tuesday, when he saw a huge silver plane fly past him just above the treetops and crash into the woods along Lambertsville Road.
Blair, of Stoystown, a driver with Jim Barron Trucking of Somerset, was traveling in a coal truck along with Doug Miller of Somerset, when they saw the plane spiraling to the ground and then explode on the outskirts of Lambertsville.

“I saw the plane flying upside down overhead and crash into the nearby trees. My buddy, Doug, and I grabbed our fire extinguishers and ran to the scene,” said Blair.
http://tinyurl.com/guct4

The 300 volunteers who collected debris and remains in the final sweep three weeks after the crash.
http://tinyurl.com/kuv73

Photos of the crash scene, debris, and personal effects.
http://tinyurl.com/kuv73
http://tinyurl.com/p7zzn
http://tinyurl.com/h7ghq
http://911myths.com/html/flight_93_photos.html
http://tinyurl.com/qd4oo
http://tinyurl.com/r5m8t
http://tinyurl.com/m2tnf
http://tinyurl.com/nfy5f
Slideshow of site and debris: http://tinyurl.com/hfqan

http://www.epa.gov/region7/news_events/events/proceedings/lepc-terc_conference_august2005/Plenary/flight93.pdf (this site is good when the link works, which it doesn't always. Some photos from it below.)
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_879044cee5fd5ffdd.jpg ('http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=851')
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_879044cee5fd315ef.jpg ('http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=850')
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_879044cee64ce6629.jpg ('http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=853')
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_879044cef2ea7f492.jpg ('http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=860')
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_879044e01767ee589.jpg ('http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=962')

Hijacker identification from the crash scene:
http://tinyurl.com/ppknu
http://tinyurl.com/qt3an
http://tinyurl.com/om544
http://tinyurl.com/logjb
http://tinyurl.com/n9zkl
http://tinyurl.com/mrw64

Val McClatchey's photo (certified as authentic by the FBI's examination of her camera's memory card.)
http://tinyurl.com/r577d

The Falcon 20 crew's report.
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916otherjetnat5p5.asp

The C-130 crew's report
http://tinyurl.com/mg4xh

40 Lives, One Destiny.
http://tinyurl.com/m7x3r

[rwguinn]

You can if you order online... knock yourself out (http://www.puttingitright.com.au/ckshop.php?item=2558&ret=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.puttingitright.com.au%2Fcksho p.php%3Fpage%3D1%26keyword%3Dorganic%2Bapricot%2Bk ernels).
:rolleyes:

Orphia Nay's handy Health Warning: "Organic" doesn't mean they're not toxic... for that to be the case, they'd have to be.... hold on to your hats.... Genetically Modified. DUNH DUH DUH! The conspiracy deepens!!!
you don't have to order online. Albertsons and Kroeger had apricots on sale at .99 per pound--and every one of them contains a seed. My neighbor has a tree full of the things in his back yard.
What kind of BS do these CT'ers think we'll swallow?

[CurtC]

Gravy, that is a good collection of flight 93 witness accounts. Have you posted that in Killtown's "smoke plume" thread? These accounts would be impossible to reconcile with his accusations of fakery.

[Gravy]

Gravy, that is a good collection of flight 93 witness accounts. Have you posted that in Killtown's "smoke plume" thread? These accounts would be impossible to reconcile with his accusations of fakery.
Yes, I gathered them specifically because Killtown dared me to show eyewitness reports of the plume. When I posted them on that thread and repeatedly asked him if these people were lying, he wouldn't respond.

[apathoid]

Gravy, that is a good collection of flight 93 witness accounts. Have you posted that in Killtown's "smoke plume" thread? These accounts would be impossible to reconcile with his accusations of fakery.

Gravy posted those links for Killtown on many occasions. Not sure what Killtowns response was, he probably just ignored them.....like he does everything that destroys his idiotic claims.

[twinstead]

Gravy posted those links for Killtown on many occasions. Not sure what Killtowns response was, he probably just ignored them.....like he does everything that destroys his idiotic claims.

I'll second that. Not only did he not respond when Gravy posted them, but when asked (very politely) repeatedly by me (yea, even made me delurk) and many others to make a comment, any comment, on the excellent information Gravy posted, the silence was deafening.

[CurtC]

Yes, I gathered them specifically because Killtown dared me to show eyewitness reports of the plume. When I posted them on that thread and repeatedly asked him if these people were lying, he wouldn't respond.
Hmm, it would be a shame if someone copied all that and posted it in his "smoke plume" thread over at the LC Forum.

[Belz...]

Why yes Dylan, I believe that is the first truthful thing I've heard you say.

Doesn't seem to take parody very well, does he ?

[Hellbound]

Hmm, it would be a shame if someone copied all that and posted it in his "smoke plume" thread over at the LC Forum.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12355&st=0&#entry7102968

Done.

[Belz...]

http://www.rense.com/general33/legal.htm
The "Bressler Report" is an interesting read, it's not that I don't like to read or that I am too lazy to invest the time to investigate these reports "properly".. I've read and seen enough to accept reality for what it is.
http://www.dorway.com/bressler.html

1977 ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_somatotropin
I understand that you are having some trouble questioning the "official" reports, but if you spend a little bit of time looking at the facts contained on the "organicconsumers" page that explains the TRUE history of MONSANTO, then you can go back to the wiki definition of r(BGH) and swallow the fact that the science giant of the world is in fact lying.

Ah! So ALL scientists are evil bastards ? Scientists don't become scientists to understand how stuff workstm, but to poison the human world ? What the hell are you saying, here ?

Make sure you scroll down to the bottom left hand side of that page for some lovely mug shots. :jaw-dropp
And there is about two or three dozen more that I can list for you that have walked through the "revolving door" that have played an important part in our genetic rape... but they eat a little further down the line.
lemme know if your interested, I can rattle that shiite off like a "professional".


You DO know that food doesn't change your DNA, right ?

If I may go out on a limb, I'll presume you're a person without actual expertise, angry at how other, smarter people actually manage to make a life for themselves and be more successful, economically.

Everything is not derived from natural stuff anymore.

REALLY? So we can make molecules out of thin air ?

http://health.centreforce.com/health/laetrile.html

"It was even more strongly claimed that when one eats about 7 apricot seeds per day they can never develop cancer, just as one can never get scurvy if they have an orange every day, or pellagra if they have some B vitamins every day.

And eating shark genitalia makes you a sex machine. Gosh, I hate alternative crap.

If it's that easy, sub, it should be a breeze to double-blind test this one. Wanna have a go at it ?

Do you have an image of a 757 on approach to the pentagon before it crashed ? Didn't that plane make a U-turn and show up on three or four other closed circuit cameras that were swiftly collected by the "men in black" ? Where are they?

They only exist in your head. The Pentagon had surveillance cameras for its parking lot. Why would you want those cameras to follow an approaching plane is beyond me.

Sure.

Do you DENY that explosions can be the result of things that aren't explosives ?

Well, maybe I AM qualified to interpret them,

Then present your credentials.

Well maybe they can get ahold of that high speed RECYCLING machine and send it on down to N.O... the least FEMA could let them do is borrow it dontcha think?!

Who to the what, now ? You don't think they just feed the steel to sharks, do you ?

And as far as the planes being taken away, it doesn't look like there was enough left of flight 93 to put in a wheel-barrow.

You haven't seen the same images I have. Personally, I'd have gone without the charred bodies.

My double blind test machine is on the fritz, but since you still can't see how most of this puzzle fits together maybe it will help if you invest the time to read the links and analyze the information from the only blog I've ever written, and you can come up with a reply to that "overall picture".

Yes, assembling puzzles is fun, but your "overall picture" looks like this:

http://www.shiboridragon.com/Patterns/SBI-MishMash.jpg

My little sister told me recently that most people are unable to understand that "expression" because either they knew me previously and it was somewhat foreign coming from me, or they just didn't know how to respond because they couldn't accept the fact that we have been intentionally misled, so blatantly.

Misled by who ? It's not like I trust M. Bush.

I spent three months in federal custody and am currently awaiting trial for discussing the solution to the problems in that blog ONCE on the telephone.It's a little bit "heated" and I guess you could say I've matured since then.

No. I don't suppose I could.

Thanks, last time I checked Canada and the UK were both still considered as being on EARTH.

You have a very short memory. You said: "We ARE all ONE, and in this country, we are not far from suffocating ourselves."

Clearly, people from other countries are not adressed by this assertion.

Anybody got a picture or written explanation for why the structural integrity of this building failed in the center of the structure?

Why shouldn't it ?

Do you think the pharmacutical companies would allow something a simple as B-17 to put a dent in their Trillion dollar game of "medical monopoly" ?

If they can market it ? Sure.

Why can't you buy raw apricot seeds in this country?

You can, here.

Other than Posilac, the herbicides pesticides and fertilizer monopoly that exist in this country effects us all on a worldwide scale. There are 4 or 5 "Gene Giants" in the world and they have all chosen to "treat" the population of the world with the same recipe.
There are a few countries that do not permit (GE) food or seeds.

Gotta hate those resilient, nutritious and fertile genetically-engineered food, as opposed to the far less-reliable, "natural" foods.

I don't claim to KNOW anything friend.

Even about cancer and the medical "monopoly" ?

And I don't respect the majority of the people who are in charge of making decisions in this country, especially the "experts". As a matter of fact, I've found them to be VERY misleading.

Why ? Doesn't appeal to your "common sense" ?

And there hasn't been one fanatical terrorist to be found in this country since then eventho' the American war machine is in their home land destroying and taking the lives of a few hundred thousand innocent women and children.

Are... are you supporting the terrorists ?

[Brainster]

I'm just staggered by this site, called Internet Detectives (http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change). It's right up there with 9-11 Myths, Gravy's Guide, and Debunking 9-11. Well-written, solid analysis, links to data... terrific job. I've invited the site creator to join us over here.

[chipmunk stew]

I just noticed a quote at the top of the Louder Than Words (http://www.loosechange911.com/company.htm) website from Hunter S. Thompson:
If there's anything worth doing, it's worth doing right.
:D And failing that, it's worth doing over.

[Pardalis]

Here is something that I do not understand; perhaps someone could clear it up for me?
How could it BOTH be obvious that
(a) in the case of WTC1 and WTC2, the collapse was going to continue all the way down once one (or perhaps a couple) of floors were destroyed, and
(b) point 2 above?

I mean...it would then make sense with such buildings to blow up just one or two floors to perform a CD, would it not?

Let it be clear for you: there were already explosions! Remember those planes slamming in these buildings?

[LashL]

I'm just staggered by this site, called Internet Detectives (http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change). It's right up there with 9-11 Myths, Gravy's Guide, and Debunking 9-11. Well-written, solid analysis, links to data... terrific job. I've invited the site creator to join us over here.

Wow - that is a terrific site indeed!

[kookbreaker]

I'm just staggered by this site, called Internet Detectives (http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change). It's right up there with 9-11 Myths, Gravy's Guide, and Debunking 9-11. Well-written, solid analysis, links to data... terrific job. I've invited the site creator to join us over here.

I loved this line:


Attempting to be prepared for a farfetched situation doesn't indicate an intention to create the situation. Do you put on your seatbelt and drive off a cliff?

:D

[WildCat]

Submersible does have a point about the apricot seeds. If you eat a large quantity of them you will never develop cancer - because the cyanide in the seeds will kill you long before cancer develops.

Similarly, you will not die of cancer if you get a bullet shot through your head... but most of you probably understand that is hardly a good preventative measure.

[tsig]

Wow - that is a terrific site indeed! Hi LL I read most of your 15 rounds with Jondoex at the CN. Shame you got banned.

JDX has never flown a plane, Billzilla showed that over at LC. JDX just doesnt have the confidence that pilots have.

[negativ]

Attempting to be prepared for a farfetched situation doesn't indicate an intention to create the situation. Do you put on your seatbelt and drive off a cliff?

That line turned up at the LC forums:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12298&st=30

For those who can't / don't want to go there, the thread concerns a bunch of speculation on "something big" happening on 7 Sept 06 based on:

* a terrorism emergency preparedness drill scheduled for that day
* a paranoid article about a coming "nuclear false flag" operation
* bizarre numerology that's being taken far too seriously
* stock trade records

Anyway, the apropriately-named site admin "CrazyBlade" wins the Utterly-Oblivious-To-The-Obvious Award by replying with:


And you know its a far-fetched situation how??

/upwardpointingsmiley

[T.A.M.]

Submersible:
I am male, so calling me "lady" seems just...odd.

as for Apricot seeds aka Laetrile aka Amygdalin, all you need to read, as usual, is right here...

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

TAM

[Regnad Kcin]

By the way, Mr. Avery and Mr. Rowe are mentioned and quoted in the latest edition of Time:

"Why The 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away" (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531304,00.html)

[T.A.M.]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7472823022720725604&q=ufo

It is a bit off topic, but if you wanna a good look and a laugh at a loon, go watch this video they are talking about over at LC...

[T.A.M.]

At the 35:20 point or so, Mr. Montablan (I dont know his real claim) claims that ALL of the events you see in the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" atually took place...

quite entertaining...like watching a flie with its wings cut off....i know..sick...but you know I am right...

TAM

[Dog Town]

Close Encounters of the Third Kind" atually took place...


Steven is a Joooooo!!

[delphi_ote]

By the way, Mr. Avery and Mr. Rowe are mentioned and quoted in the latest edition of Time:

"Why The 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away" (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531304,00.html)
An interesting piece with an interesting construction. I wish the author had more time to flesh out their ideas toward the end. In an article titled "Why X Won't Go Away" I expect a lot more exploration of those reasons.
In almost every clip you'll see little puffs of dust spurting out from the sides of the towers. There are two competing explanations for these puffs of dust: 1) the force of the collapsing upper floors raised the air pressure in the lower ones so dramatically that it actually blew out the windows. And 2) the towers did not collapse from the impact of two Boeing 767s and the ensuing fires. They were destroyed in a planned, controlled demolition. The dust puffs you see on film are the detonations of explosives planted there before the attacks.
I wish the author would have stipulated that, though these hypotheses are competing in the public arena, there really isn't any competition between them among experts. One accurately reflects the facts while the other simply does not.

[T.A.M.]

I am sorry, but the person who put the video I linked to earlier, up on Google is even more strange (if you can believe it) than the guy in the video...

http://www.myspace.com/dalibor777

Apparently the guy in the video is William Cooper...ring any bells for anyone?

TAM

[StoneWT]

T.A.M.,

Cooper was interesting. The video represents what he believed in the late 80's and very early 90's. By 1992, he believed that the documentation he claims to have seen in the Navy concerning aliens was most likely planted disinformation.

[negativ]

Apparently the guy in the video is William Cooper...ring any bells for anyone?

Actually, yes. I'll have to jog my memory a bit, but "Wild Bill" Cooper was a UFO nut who was even considered nutty by a lot of UFO nuts.

Hmm, after some Googling, I found this:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_2_26/ai_83585946

I didn't know that!

[T.A.M.]

Yes, apparently Mr. Cooper was killed in a shoot out with police just after 9/11 2001, the exact date was November 5th, 2001 I believe. I am amazed more of the nutters havent picked up on the "connection"...lol

TAM

[CptColumbo]

Has anyone read the New Yorker article on Al-Quida. It talks about the displeasure the other leaders are upset with OBL, because of all the trouble he caused. They wanted to wait longer, but he was impatient.

My local paper also had an article about CTs today, it wasn't very good (substance wise). However, it shows another bit of infighting in the CT Community. Who is the leader of the movement and who has done more for it? Everyone seems to claim that title. I spent hours on their site at Startribune.com, but couldn't find the article to link to it.

[CptColumbo]

Mind satisfying my curiosity? What were you in for?
Haven't you been reading, he had the cure for cancer.
;)

[Gravy]

I'm just staggered by this site, called Internet Detectives (http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change). It's right up there with 9-11 Myths, Gravy's Guide, and Debunking 9-11. Well-written, solid analysis, links to data... terrific job. I've invited the site creator to join us over here.

Beautiful site! Thorough, well-written, well-sourced, easy to read. I quit!
How'd you find it, Brainster?

[Dog Town]

Beautiful site! Thorough, well-written, well-sourced, easy to read. I quit!

" You never forget your first" ! You gave a great first punch !
Yours still good. This is pretty swanky though!

[Gravy]

I just noticed a quote at the top of the Louder Than Words (http://www.loosechange911.com/company.htm) website from Hunter S. Thompson:

:D And failing that, it's worth doing over.
Thank you for pointing my screen capture program to another gem. And notice at the bottom of the page there's a link that says "Find an adult friend now (don't click if you're not an adult)"

Ya can't make this stuff up.

[MarkyX]

*cough*

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6596630292015140276&hl=en-CA

PIMP NOW.

[Brainster]

Beautiful site! Thorough, well-written, well-sourced, easy to read. I quit!
How'd you find it, Brainster?

The guy (Zach) sent me an email. It was almost apologetic in tone; "I know everybody's doing this, but here's my site."

You want to feel really sick? He's 17 years old.:eye-poppi

[Gravy]

*cough*

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6596630292015140276&hl=en-CA

PIMP NOW.
I love the "four pounds of thermite can't melt a computer, but it can bring down two 110-story towers" segment. Rock on, MarkyX!

[MarkyX]

I love the "four pounds of thermite can't melt a computer, but it can bring down two 110-story towers" segment. Rock on, MarkyX!

Don't you mean Mark Roberts?

[Abbyas]

Beautiful site! Thorough, well-written, well-sourced, easy to read. I quit!

No, no!


Don't you mean Mark Roberts?

Yeah, sheesh, you could have just given him a compliment in the mirror versus wasting ones and zeros.

[Gravy]

The guy (Zach) sent me an email. It was almost apologetic in tone; "I know everybody's doing this, but here's my site."

You want to feel really sick? He's 17 years old.:eye-poppi
I say we pass the torch to this Young Turk and go have a margarita. Remember the energy we had when we were 17? He can run your site, finish my Guide, write some letters to the editor, play a few video games and text message a few hundred times, all between now and midnight, and all on a diet of peanut M&Ms and Mountain Dew. Go, Zach, Go!

[Gravy]

Yeah, sheesh, you could have just given him a compliment in the mirror versus wasting ones and zeros.
I did that anyway. I can't be sure that I don't have multiple-personality disorder, so I always compliment myself when someone who may be me does a good job.

[Graham2001]

The guy (Zach) sent me an email. It was almost apologetic in tone; "I know everybody's doing this, but here's my site."

You want to feel really sick? He's 17 years old.:eye-poppi

Which in my eyes makes it even more impresive. After all the creators of Loose Change are around 22, just goes to show, age isn't everything.

[WildCat]

I'm just staggered by this site, called Internet Detectives (http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change). It's right up there with 9-11 Myths, Gravy's Guide, and Debunking 9-11. Well-written, solid analysis, links to data... terrific job. I've invited the site creator to join us over here.
Wow, and by a 17 year old... how dare he show up his elders like that! Where's the respect? :p

What a great site!

[delphi_ote]

I just noticed a quote at the top of the Louder Than Words (http://www.loosechange911.com/company.htm) website from Hunter S. Thompson:

:D And failing that, it's worth doing over.
As someone who has read and watched Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas far too many times, I feel it's my duty to put that quote in context:

Acosta: As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And then you'll need the cocaine. Acapulco shirts, a tape recorder for special music. Get the hell out of L.A. for at least 48 hours... This is going to blow my whole weekend because naturally I'm going to have to go with you. And we're going to need to arm ourselves - to the teeth.

Duke: Well, why not. Anything worth doing is worth doing right.
Maybe this is not the best source of inspiration for filming a journalistic documentary...

[delphi_ote]

Also, Hunter's style of journalism doesn't exactly lend itself to this medium...
Gonzo journalism is a style of reporting that mixes fiction and factual journalism. It uses an unconventional, exaggerated and highly subjective style, often including the reporter as part of the story. It is used to describe the style of American journalist Hunter S. Thompson, among others.

[mrfreeze]

You know, I really wish they would stop ****ing Thompson's corpse to get across their CT. Sure the guy was nuts, but damn if he couldn't write an entertaining story.

[Abbyas]

Hey, people, how long does it take for google to approve a video?

After 6 weeks, the footage from ground zero is finally edited and almost ready to show my fellow ninjas.

[negativ]

I say we pass the torch to this Young Turk and go have a margarita. Remember the energy we had when we were 17? He can run your site, finish my Guide, write some letters to the editor, play a few video games and text message a few hundred times, all between now and midnight, and all on a diet of peanut M&Ms and Mountain Dew. Go, Zach, Go!

SO TRUE. When I was 17, I'm pretty sure I existed on a daily diet of pizza, Dr. Pepper, and hamburgers. I weighed about 130 lbs. Now, if I eat half a french fry, I bloat up like a puffer fish. :(

[Brainster]

You know, I really wish they would stop ****ing Thompson's corpse to get across their CT. Sure the guy was nuts, but damn if he couldn't write an entertaining story.

Fear and Loathing was probably the funniest book I ever read at the time I read it; either that or Catch-22. But it's sending an awful message, that getting drunk and ripped beyond belief can be a great way to have fun and laughs. Like kids need to be sold on that anyway. And you'd be hard pressed to mention anything extraordinary he's written since F&L.

HST was probably at his best analyzing football, but Easterbrook had taken that crown away from him years ago.

He does represent a type that seemed largely extinct a few years ago; the paranoid left. It seems to be making a comeback these days.

[MarkyX]

Hey, people, how long does it take for google to approve a video?

After 6 weeks, the footage from ground zero is finally edited and almost ready to show my fellow ninjas.

Took me two days and a half for SCL:NFA

I think it really depends on the format and size though, not sure.

[negativ]

Hey look!

The Democratic nominee for Congress from Florida’s 15th district is a Truther! (http://bowman2006.com/issues_az.htm#9_11)
http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/cheers.gifhttp://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/wavetowel2.gifhttp://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/rock.gif

I would just like to point out, especially to all of our non-American friends, that just because someone calls themselves a "Representative" does not necessarily mean they are in any way "representative".

I hope.

Obligatory Youtube video here. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M6X_r4DppWk)

[mrfreeze]

And you'd be hard pressed to mention anything extraordinary he's written since F&L.



I liked "The Great White Shark Hunt", and "Fear and Loathing on the campaign trail of '72" was entertaining to me. Although I'll be damned if I can name anything he has done in the past 25 years. Then again, I am 22 so that may have something to do with it.

[delphi_ote]

You know, I really wish they would stop ****ing Thompson's corpse to get across their CT. Sure the guy was nuts, but damn if he couldn't write an entertaining story.
Couldn't agree more. It's a new tradition with my friends to toast shots of Wild Turkey and say "Mahalo".

[Brainster]

Hey look!

The Democratic nominee for Congress from Florida’s 15th district is a Truther! (http://bowman2006.com/issues_az.htm#9_11)


I would just like to point out, especially to all of our non-American friends, that just because someone calls themselves a "Representative" does not necessarily mean they are in any way "representative".

I hope.

Obligatory Youtube video here. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M6X_r4DppWk)

If Bowman even comes close it means disaster for the Republicans elsewhere. He has no chance of winning in this district against the incumbent, Dave Weldon, who won 65%-35% in 2004. The good news is that friends of mine have a radio show down there and I will probably get asked on to talk about him.

[delphi_ote]

Hey look!

The Democratic nominee for Congress from Florida’s 15th district is a Truther! (http://bowman2006.com/issues_az.htm#9_11)
http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/cheers.gifhttp://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/wavetowel2.gifhttp://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/rock.gif

I would just like to point out, especially to all of our non-American friends, that just because someone calls themselves a "Representative" does not necessarily mean they are in any way "representative".

I hope.

Obligatory Youtube video here. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M6X_r4DppWk)
I live far too close to that district for comfort.

[bob_kark]

Hey look!

The Democratic nominee for Congress from Florida’s 15th district is a Truther! (http://bowman2006.com/issues_az.htm#9_11)
http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/cheers.gifhttp://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/wavetowel2.gifhttp://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/rock.gif

I would just like to point out, especially to all of our non-American friends, that just because someone calls themselves a "Representative" does not necessarily mean they are in any way "representative".

I hope.

Obligatory Youtube video here. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M6X_r4DppWk)

Oh my Ed! Was that or was that not Ed Begley Jr. at the beginning of that video?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/632744ff9194a8431.jpg

You decide!

BTW, he previously ran for President.
http://www.rmbowman.com/Bowman2006/index.html

[CptColumbo]

I haven't watched the news since I got out of jail, but it was flying in the background before I went in... and it was still there the day before I got released.

I would assume you know the date of your imprisonment and release and could look in the archives of any given newspaper or news source for the pictures that you are writing about.

[Class]

Well, if you insist

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361744f494f08991f.gif

Sorry to quote this old post, but is there a chance you have a larger version of this?

[WildCat]

Well tomorrow's the day Chicago gets nuked or something according to the geniuses over at LC. I'll be at a fat target tomorrow night - the Sox-Indians game. For some reason I'm not worried. The only explosions I expect to see are the fireworks from the scoreboard.

:cool: <--- In case chucksheen is lurking

[CurtC]

The guy (Zach) sent me an email. It was almost apologetic in tone; "I know everybody's doing this, but here's my site."
Would you mind asking him how much traffic his site can handle?

Gravy's HTML work is pushing 100 GB/month. Zach's site looks great. If we start referring to it heavily, I'd like to make sure Zach is prepared.

[Brainster]

Oh my Ed! Was that or was that not Ed Begley Jr. at the beginning of that video?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/632744ff9194a8431.jpg

You decide!

BTW, he previously ran for President.
http://www.rmbowman.com/Bowman2006/index.html

Yeah, Ed's been a Denier for several years now. Anybody remember his dad, the character actor? Looks nothing like Junior and must have been 50 when the son was born (close: Wikipedia says 48).

[Zach]

Would you mind asking him how much traffic his site can handle?

Gravy's HTML work is pushing 100 GB/month. Zach's site looks great. If we start referring to it heavily, I'd like to make sure Zach is prepared.
My limit's about 75GB/month, if it does get to that point I'll probably end up moving it to my Dreamhost account.

[defaultdotxbe]

hey another chicagoan :) welcome

my site has 500gb a month and im barely hitting 15 hosting my forums and MarkyX's frequently stupid theories, i might be able to mirror a few pages if need be

but i think dreamhost gives you a terabyte so you probably wont need any bandwidth, lol

[Submersible]

This isn't final yet, but it does have both picture and written explanations:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%20IIC%20-%20WTC%207%20Collapse%20Final.pdf

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/1338/image022up8.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fema/fig-5-23a.jpg

I looked at that NIST report and it's really hard to determine if they could possibly be intentionally misleading U.S. for some reason. And it's still kinda' hard for me to believe that tower 7 fell in 8.2 seconds because columns 79,80 & 81 failed to support their load from top to bottom of the structure. Especially when you consider the extremely small amount of fire that exist in the building prior to it's collapse.
After going over everything they have to offer two or three times I scrolled back to the top and looked at the image the background and the full name of the NIST, and something caught my eye.
NIST is a division of the U.S. Dept of Commerce, and my old coon-ass next door neighbor Billy Tauzin was the chairman for the DOC right up until
"January 3, 2005, the same day he left Congress, Tauzin began work as the head of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, or PhRMA, a powerful trade group for pharmaceutical companies. It was reported that they had offered more than a million dollars per year for his services, outbidding the MPAA (L.A. Times, February 9, 2004). Two months earlier, Tauzin had played a key role in shepherding the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill through Congress, which had been criticized by opponents for being too generous to the pharmaceutical industry."

I copy/pasted that last part straight out of the dictionary.

Let me tell you something, that man and this government is as crooked as a snake selling kisses, but for some reason I just keep making more enemies for explaining such an obvious source of poisoning.

One day he calls the shots for the dept of commerce, next day he's the ceo of PHARMA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_Research_and_Manufacturers_of_Ameri ca

And now he calls the shots for all of these companies:
http://www.phrma.org/about_phrma/member_company_list/members/

And these RESEARCH companies:
http://www.phrma.org/about_phrma/member_company_list/associates%3a_researchers/

this could all mean nothing.

[T.A.M.]

Welcome Zach to the JREF Skeptics Forum on Conspiracy Theories. Great Site on the 9/11 Story by the way. Man where did you get the time to collect and write all that stuff...ah to be 17 again.

When I was 17, Bon Jovi was the biggest thing since slice bread, Acid Washed Jeans were in, and we were 4-5 years away from seeing Nirvana introduce the grunge fad...

Godamn I am old...lol

Whooohooo I get to start page 100 of LCF Page 4.

TAM

[Zach]

Thanks TAM, this is a really nice forum. I mostly just put that page together in my spare time.

[Shrinker]

Sorry to quote this old post, but is there a chance you have a larger version of this?

Sadly I don't, since I worked on the small file posted here. If somebody could locate a higher resolution original I could reapply my corrections to that.

[Shrinker]

Well done Zach, that's great work!

[The_Fire]

Sadly I don't, since I worked on the small file posted here. If somebody could locate a higher resolution original I could reapply my corrections to that.

Here ya go...I've zipped it to save bandwidth...
And then again....host didn't allow hotlinking.... wait a sec...

download link (http://kb74work.awardspace.com/jref/download.html)

NB: You need to do a right click save when you get to the page.....

[Alareth]

After reading the entire LC section of Zach's site, this line from the Diffuser Case entry (http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change-2#the-diffuser-case) is definitely my favorite:

So Avery has proven that a piece of a plane engine found in the Pentagon isn't from a plane that didn't crash into the Pentagon.

[Shrinker]

Here ya go...I've zipped it to save bandwidth...
And then again....host didn't allow hotlinking.... wait a sec...

download link (http://kb74work.awardspace.com/jref/download.html)

NB: You need to do a right click save when you get to the page.....

Thanks, but the link's still not working. Right-click just saves a corrupt file. Don't you just love free 'hosting' companies?

[Shrinker]

I'm also going to need a high res copy of the 'INVESTIGATE 911' logo, or at least the 911 part of it. Anybody have a scan of that?

[The_Fire]

Thanks, but the link's still not working. Right-click just saves a corrupt file. Don't you just love free 'hosting' companies?

Yeah...they just rock, don't they? :eyeroll: Thankfully I'm getting a paid host within the next couple of months. That's going to be a relief.....

Anyways, try it again, I've linked to the gif in the href instead. Fills more but works....

[Shrinker]

Anyways, try it again, I've linked to the gif in the href instead. Fills more but works....

No it doesn't :)

Try putting an img tag instead of a link.

Edit: sorry everyone else, we'll continue this saga via PM!]

Edit 2: Okay, I got the thing. Now I need to find some free time. Maybe tonight, after work...

[The_Fire]

No it doesn't :)

Try putting an img tag instead of a link.


DOOOOH!!!

Shrinker, check your email...

[kookbreaker]

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/1338/image022up8.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fema/fig-5-23a.jpg

I looked at that NIST report and it's really hard to determine if they could possibly be intentionally misleading U.S. for some reason. And it's still kinda' hard for me to believe that tower 7 fell in 8.2 seconds because columns 79,80 & 81 failed to support their load from top to bottom of the structure.

The timing is much longer than that when you consider that there is internal failure. What you see is only what is happening to the outside of the building.


Especially when you consider the extremely small amount of fire that exist in the building prior to it's collapse.


Bull. Fires were huge and engulfed much of the building. We've shown this over and over again. Plus they burned unfought for over seven hours. So I tend not to 'consider' things that are lies.


After going over everything they have to offer two or three times I scrolled back to the top and looked at the image the background and the full name of the NIST, and something caught my eye.
NIST is a division of the U.S. Dept of Commerce, and my old coon-ass next door neighbor Billy Tauzin was the chairman for the DOC right up until
"January 3, 2005, the same day he left Congress, Tauzin began work as the head of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, or PhRMA, a powerful trade group for pharmaceutical companies. It was reported that they had offered more than a million dollars per year for his services, outbidding the MPAA (L.A. Times, February 9, 2004). Two months earlier, Tauzin had played a key role in shepherding the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill through Congress, which had been criticized by opponents for being too generous to the pharmaceutical industry."

I copy/pasted that last part straight out of the dictionary.

Let me tell you something, that man and this government is as crooked as a snake selling kisses, but for some reason I just keep making more enemies for explaining such an obvious source of poisoning.

One day he calls the shots for the dept of commerce, next day he's the ceo of PHARMA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_Research_and_Manufacturers_of_Ameri ca

And now he calls the shots for all of these companies:
http://www.phrma.org/about_phrma/member_company_list/members/

And these RESEARCH companies:
http://www.phrma.org/about_phrma/member_company_list/associates%3a_researchers/

this could all mean nothing.

And it doesn't. You are mixing your stupidity and your paranoia.

[Belz...]

I looked at that NIST report and it's really hard to determine if they could possibly be intentionally misleading U.S. for some reason.

That's the stangest sentence I've read all week. One that's grammatically correct, anyway. Why would you assume that they are misleading you and THEN look for evidence of this ?

And it's still kinda' hard for me to believe that tower 7 fell in 8.2 seconds because columns 79,80 & 81 failed to support their load from top to bottom of the structure.

Argument from personal incredulity.

Especially when you consider the extremely small amount of fire that exist in the building prior to it's collapse.

The WHAT ?

[Belz...]

I copy/pasted that last part straight out of the dictionary.

Let me tell you something, that man and this government is as crooked as a snake selling kisses, but for some reason I just keep making more enemies for explaining such an obvious source of poisoning.

One day he calls the shots for the dept of commerce, next day he's the ceo of PHARMA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmac...s_of_Ameri ca

And now he calls the shots for all of these companies:
http://www.phrma.org/about_phrma/mem..._list/members/

And these RESEARCH companies:
http://www.phrma.org/about_phrma/mem...a_researchers/

this could all mean nothing.

Indeed. It could. Any evidence that it doesn't mean nothing ?

[Belz...]

Thanks TAM, this is a really nice forum. I mostly just put that page together in my spare time.

Spare time, eh ? Well, I'll be even MORE impressed if you say that you work full time while going to night classes, leaving you all of 16 minutes per day for eating, sleeping and going to the bathroom as well as work on your site. ;)

[chipmunk stew]

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/1338/image022up8.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fema/fig-5-23a.jpg

I looked at that NIST report and it's really hard to determine if they could possibly be intentionally misleading U.S. for some reason. And it's still kinda' hard for me to believe that tower 7 fell in 8.2 seconds
Add about 6-7 seconds to that time:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/911.wtc.7.demolition.front.penthouse.wmv

because columns 79,80 & 81 failed to support their load from top to bottom of the structure. Especially when you consider the extremely small amount of fire that exist in the building prior to it's collapse.
Aside from the fact already mentioned that the fires were rather widespread, arguing from incredulity is an inadequate rebuttal.

[deleted irrelevant tangential rant]

this could all mean nothing.
It does. I'm glad you're open to the possibility. Chairmen and CEOs deal with high-level strategy and overall vision and direction. He's in no position to engineer a cover-up based on low-level nuts-&-bolts technical data, especially coming from a sub-division of his organization.

[chipmunk stew]

Thanks TAM, this is a really nice forum. I mostly just put that page together in my spare time.
Welcome, Zach. Holy smokes! You've single-handedly restored my faith in your generation--it had been wavering since dealing with young Troofers.

Wow!

[Gravy]

Thanks TAM, this is a really nice forum. I mostly just put that page together in my spare time.
Welcome to the forums, Zach. You're my hero! There's an expression that goes, "If youth only knew...if age only could!" Well, you know and can and do, and you should be proud of your excellent work.

[Gravy]

Especially when you consider the extremely small amount of fire that exist in the building prior to it's collapse.

"They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. ... I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out." - Richard Banaciski http://tinyurl.com/jbg8l

“7 World Trade was burning from the ground to the ceiling fully involved.” –Firefighter Steve Modica http://tinyurl.com/mc898.

"It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members." - Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department http://tinyurl.com/g8c6y

Once the fires developed, according to eyewitness accounts and the NIST investigation, flames were seen on floors 3, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 22, 29, and 30.

Submersible, I hope you're learning that you've been relying on very poor sources of information about 9/11.

[MarkyX]

Gravy, I wouldn't waste my time. He calls himself a skeptic but doesn't want to change his mind even when demanding evidence.

http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr - Just point him to this site.

[chipmunk stew]

Hey, people, how long does it take for google to approve a video?

After 6 weeks, the footage from ground zero is finally edited and almost ready to show my fellow ninjas.
Sweet! I'm ready--bring it on...
:popcorn1

[chipmunk stew]

*cough*

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6596630292015140276&hl=en-CA

PIMP NOW.
.com mirror:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6596630292015140276

[Brainster]

I'm not sure whether this is a good development (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2006/09/operation_defen.html) or not. The Protest Warriors are a group of counter-protestors; the problem from our standpoint is that they are overly identified with conservative countering of anti-war protests (http://www.protestwarrior.com/). As you can see, they may not have a clear image of their target:

Are we going to let that happen? Are we going to let Liberal, America hating, Communist, Islamo Facist scum attack 9/11 familes who've endured enough already, while also using the sad occasion to make millions of dollars?

Hmmm, scum yes, America hating probably; the rest is pretty wildly off target. I don't want to imply that the Protest Warrior folks are violent or "in your face", because that's not their MO. But this does up the ante and I would expect them to be out in force.

I am going to see who I can contact that is involved with PW to see if I can get them to tone down the rhetoric and understand what is proposed by the Deniers for the fifth anniversary.

Stay Tuned....

Oh, and welcome to the forum, Zach! As you can see, we're all impressed with the marvelous work you've put into your site!

[Abbyas]

Sweet! I'm ready--bring it on...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4162315283354424113&hl=en

[MarkyX]

I am going to see who I can contact that is involved with PW to see if I can get them to tone down the rhetoric and understand what is proposed by the Deniers for the fifth anniversary.


No, I wouldn't really do that. What Protest Warriors do is bring out a sign and simply merge with the marchers. They don't verbally attack or assault anyone. That's what their opposition does at their presense.

And I will be honest, if that does happen, it would expose the 9/11 Deniers as what I thought all along; a bunch of violent people who have some sort of personal vendetta against Bush.

[bob_kark]

Yeah, Ed's been a Denier for several years now. Anybody remember his dad, the character actor? Looks nothing like Junior and must have been 50 when the son was born (close: Wikipedia says 48).
Wow, I had no idea. You think you know someone who lies for a living...

[Brainster]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4162315283354424113&hl=en

LOL! Thanks, that was exactly what I needed this morning!

[Brainster]

No, I wouldn't really do that. What Protest Warriors do is bring out a sign and simply merge with the marchers. They don't verbally attack or assault anyone. That's what their opposition does at their presense.

And I will be honest, if that does happen, it would expose the 9/11 Deniers as what I thought all along; a bunch of violent people who have some sort of personal vendetta against Bush.

It may work out fine; my only concern is that most people when dealing with the Deniers at first have a very hard time controlling their temper--see some of the folks in Abby's video for a good example. This is not the same thing as countering anti-war protestors.

[Brainache]

It looks to me sitting here half a world away that there will definitely be a lot of angry people at GZ on the day.
I hope not but I can see it getting very ugly.
I've seen some of the stupid things troothers have been saying on the LC forum and I just hope they are all talk.
So any way good luck with it all and be careful.

[Abbyas]

It may work out fine; my only concern is that most people when dealing with the Deniers at first have a very hard time controlling their temper--see some of the folks in Abby's video for a good example. This is not the same thing as countering anti-war protestors.

It looks to me sitting here half a world away that there will definitely be a lot of angry people at GZ on the day.
I hope not but I can see it getting very ugly.


The thing that makes me nervous about GZ this monday is that the two loudest, angriest people that I caught at GZ were people involved with the FDNY. Imagine the anger eminating from hundreds of them.

[Brainache]

The thing that makes me nervous about GZ this monday is that the two loudest, angriest people that I caught at GZ were people involved with the FDNY. Imagine the anger eminating from hundreds of them.

Well yes. I think they have a lot to be angry about. I imagine they are still dealing with a lot of grief.
I know you guys won't be the target for their anger, just try to stay out of the crossfire.

[NDBoston]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4162315283354424113&hl=en

Abby:

BRAVO!!! I laughed my ass off and wanted to rip some heads off all at the same time.

[Abbyas]

BRAVO!!! I laughed my ass off and wanted to rip some heads off all at the same time.

Thanks for watching it, guys!

Wanna know something weird? Markyx is actually Gravy, but I'm actually Markyx. Ooooooh.

[chipmunk stew]

Thanks for watching it, guys!

Wanna know something weird? Markyx is actually Gravy, but I'm actually Markyx. Ooooooh.
:confused: So then who's the badass chick in the video????

All right, folks: Who's going to sacrifice a sock for the cause?

[Dog Town]

The thing that makes me nervous about GZ this monday is that the two loudest, angriest people that I caught at GZ were people involved with the FDNY. Imagine the anger eminating from hundreds of them.

Not to promote violence just for the sake of violence, buuuttt they have this coming. I know what the day should be,a nice respectful vigil. I see it being their day of reckoning. They need to see how they affect these heroes closeup. The closer the better in my eyes. In a perfect world this would not have to happen. Becareful folks. If you have a chance to take a shot, please make it hurt. I wish you well!

DT

[Darth Rotor]

another thing is, dont US forces comprise most, if not all UN forces?
No. An excellent example was UNPROFOR(92-95) Bosnia pre NATO IFOR, that had maybe 3-400 US support personnel, no armed peacekeepers per se (congress blocked it thanks to Somalia idiocy) but folks in the mission at the support end. Their efforts supported thousands of peacekeepers from many different nations.

The UN don't have any "forces". They have Peacekeepers - who are made up of the armed forces of various member states - not including the US (who don't do UN stuff). But when the UN wants to fight a war they don't do it themselves - they grant permission for an international coalition to do it. And yes, the United States has provided the majority of forces for all of these international coalitions - with the exception of INTERFET (East Timor).
As to the bolded line, it is Bullsh**. Money talks and BS walks.

http://www.un.int/usa/fact2.htm

WTF do you call this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Operation_in_Somalia_II) Peace enforcement, which is harder than peacekeeping by an order of magnitude.
Operation Restore Hope was a United States military operation The US Army participated in from 03 December 1992 to 04 May 1993 for intervention in the Republic of Somalia, sanctioned by the United Nations . . .
Note: Wiki is as usual wrong, since the initial American contribution was the US Marines, most of a MEF. (roughly division strength.)

The US also does stuff the UN is too useless to do, such as the Sinai Multinational Peacekeeping force that the UN won't do. Sine 1982, a US Battalion has been there (used to be a standing task of the 82d Airborne Division.) A good friend of mine spent a year of his life on that force.

US leads NATO IFOR in Bosnia, since the bloody UN is ineffective.

"Doesn't do UN stuff." Really? Then how do you explain the Michael New case (http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/1995/psrnov95.html)? Second section "What masters do US forces serve." See also Specialist New's continuing saga here (http://firebaseveteranshour.tripod.com/id14.html) The courts have made it clear that the US can indeed send troops to UN operations, under the treaty the US Senate approved by participation in the UN, and that New was not within the law to object to serve in them. The lawful order from President Clinton to deploy forces to Macedonia has been upheld.

DR

[realitybites]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4162315283354424113&hl=en
I have that effing folk song stuck in my head. Why do I ALWAYS miss the good days down there?

I'm bringin' my banjo Saturday.

[delphi_ote]

Thanks for watching it, guys!

Wanna know something weird? Markyx is actually Gravy, but I'm actually Markyx. Ooooooh.
That was fantastic! Gravy, you're amazing. I can't believe how much information you could just throw down in the thermite discussion. Really, just too good for words.

The editing was great, the narration was great, and you kept your sense of humor without sounding mean.

Also, if we want to talk about what's "%&*in' hot, dude" look no further. :eye-poppi :jaw-dropp :loveatfirstsight:

[pgwenthold]

Hello again, brumsen.

Nope, makes no sense at all. Not unless you think the way the WTC towers came down would be an acceptable commercial controlled demolition.

Blow just one floor and they'd collapse, true (unless you blew very close to the top, perhaps), but most CDs try not to destroy ten other buildings and make a huge flaming pile of debris. The more structural elements you destroy, the more control you have. QED.

But...but...but...didn't it fall into it's own footprint?

Dang it's hard to keep up with this stuff.

[sleahead]

Quote of the day by Alex Jones after Chomsky has put down the telephone:

"Chomsky, you're a New World Order shill and I've got twice the brain you've got with both arms tied behind my back".

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1687081928697323766&q=alex+jones+noam+chomsky

The interview goes along resonably enough until the 35 minute mark, when Jones gets onto the subject of guns. Jones accuses Chomsky of not being truthful about certain things, the interview ends and Jones goes into a rant, exposing Chomsky as a shill.