Loose Change - Part IV

[negativ]

They cut out the part where I compaired it to a cult however.

That's too bad, because it's a valid point.

Got a link to your letter?

[negativ]

For any who might be interested, Dallas radio host Mark Davis will be playing audio from a conversation with some Truthers just a few minutes from now:

Streaming audio here: http://wbap.com/article.asp?id=133706

* I don't really dig his politics, but I share his hatred of the Truthers.

[chipmunk stew]

After reading 10,000 of the 14,000 posts you have on Loose change (my brain started to bleed part way through the part III) and all 3,000 odd posts in christophera's thread on the invisible concrete cores, I know that I can't post external links. You have to keep out the spam bots, I know.

But I have written an article about this and since I "borrowed" a whole lot of research from these very forums, I wanted to share it before I put it up on my own site. This is the address minus the stuff at the beginning:

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html

You guys seem to be cool with people posting links as long as they're actually relevant to the discussion so I hope this isn't considered breaking some kind of rule. If it is I apologize, I'm not trying to mess up your forums. I've logged probably 75 hours here the last two weeks. This discussion simply isn't happening anywhere else on the level that it's happening here.

There is adult language in that article, by the way.
Stumbled across a thread at LC forums. This post is great:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12991&view=findpost&p=7185261
(ninjafied link): http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/001110A/http/s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12991&view=findpost&p=7185261
Hmmm...the style seems familiar...

Yes, it's true that breathing industrial quantities of concrete dust isn't good for you.
CONSPIRACY!

"Scholars" for truth cited this irrefutable bit of science (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=56836&mesg_id=56836) to prove that the damage could not have been caused by airplanes.
CONSPIRACY!

Inspired by this, I tried a little experiment of my own. I filled my bathtub half-way with water, then dumped four bags of ice cubes into it. Then I took my rubber ducky and pushed it around the water really really fast, and unbelievably, it didn't sink.
WHY WON'T THE GOVERNMENT TELL US THE TRUTH ABOUT THE TITANIC???? I'VE PROVEN IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY AN ICEBERG! WITH SCIENCE!

"Scholars" for truth also wrote that the Towers couldn't have fallen the way official reports said they did. In order to illustrate this, they showed that the Keebler Elves' tree would not have fallen if you removed their little cookie factory.

And sure, that's good for a laugh. What's actually offensive about them is that they refer to themselves as "scholars" and their papers as "peer reviewed." I actually am a scholar. I've published articles that have been peer-reviewed. Peer-review is no f*cking picnic. For the last one, I had five independent experts sending me back page after page after page after page of comments and notes and biobliographical suggestions, telling me I needed more support for this and more support for my support of that, and that I might have used the wrong term here, and that I absolutely had to read this other thing before I continued, and so on and so on. Once you add up all the to-and-fro of suggestions and revisions, the article took me exactly eighteen months to finish.

And that was for an article on medieval poetry.

Something tells me that proper peer review wouldn't allow the Keebler Elf model to slip through the cracks.

I know a little something about research, as it happens, and what I've noticed is this: these long lists of websites and whatnot that you folks keep telling everyone to read in order to "prove" your point continuously cite each other. It's a self-referential circle-jerk of ludicrous proportions.

And, lastly, what I find truly saddening about this site is that for a group of people who regularly test the limits of free speech, you seem awfully intolerant of those who show up here to exercise it. Everybody who disagrees with you gets banned. I'm pretty sure I know what you'd say if the same happened to you anywhere else on the internet:

"CONSPIRACY!"

And since I'll be banned once your lot gets back from their afternoon of insulting the bereaved at ground zero, have a nice week!
:dl:

[DavidJames]

Acura RDX.

Do you THINK they might be targeting their audience with a subliminal message? --You guys (most of you, I'm sure) do know what RDX is. Guess it's the times we live in; name an automobile after the primary explosive used in controlled demolitions (the same that most likely was used to demolish three buildings of the World Trade Center) and perhaps people will not think it such a bad thing (in a twisted sense of advertising reality) after all -- It has a super-fine car named after it. Acura RDX.

http://www.unipeak.com/gethtml.php?_u_r_l_=aHR0cDovL3MxNS5pbnZpc2lvbmZyZW UuY29tL0xvb3NlX0NoYW5nZV9Gb3J1bS9pbmRleC5waHA/c2hvd3RvcGljPTEzMTcw

Jerry by the way is a grandfather. His DNA has soiled 2 generations of humans.

[Belz...]

Stumbled across a thread at LC forums. This post is great:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12991&view=findpost&p=7185261
(ninjafied link): http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/001110A/http/s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12991&view=findpost&p=7185261
Hmmm...the style seems familiar...


:dl:


Avatar thief.

[chipmunk stew]

Avatar thief.
"Imitation is the greatest form of flattery." :D

[David Wong]

Welcome, David! This is hilarious! Thanks for the contribution.

Thank you. And thank you for getting the link out there. From the time I went to bed last night until now, 10,000 users read that article.

[chran]

Thank you. And thank you for getting the link out there. From the time I went to bed last night until now, 10,000 users read that article. Whoa! :jaw-dropp

That's a lot of exposure, but deservedly so! :)

btw, when DO we get to see Luba and her sister? ;)

[Brainster]

I will be on The World Tonight with Rob Breakenridge of AM 770, CHQR Monday night, September 11, at 10:00 PM Eastern Time to discuss the 9-11 Conspiracy Theories. For those of you not fortunate enough to live in Calgary, you can listen in live here (http://www.am770chqr.com/). We will be taking callers. The call-in numbers are 1-800-563-7770, or 403-974-8255. Rob is hoping to fit in a whole hour on the topic of 9-11 Denial, but obviously it depends on the level of listener interest and breaking news.

[CptColumbo]

That's too bad, because it's a valid point.

Got a link to your letter?

The other day I couldn't find the article on the papers site, but I found the letters regarding it. Here's mine:
http://www.startribune.com/563/story/665124.html

With what they cut out they almost make me sound like a fascist, but all I want is for them to do their job and inform the public. Don't make us go to websites for our research.

[apathoid]

http://www.unipeak.com/gethtml.php?_u_r_l_=aHR0cDovL3MxNS5pbnZpc2lvbmZyZW UuY29tL0xvb3NlX0NoYW5nZV9Gb3J1bS9pbmRleC5waHA/c2hvd3RvcGljPTEzMTcw

Do you THINK they might be targeting their audience with a subliminal message? --You guys (most of you, I'm sure) do know what RDX is. Guess it's the times we live in; name an automobile after the primary explosive used in controlled demolitions (the same that most likely was used to demolish three buildings of the World Trade Center) and perhaps people will not think it such a bad thing (in a twisted sense of advertising reality) after all -- It has a super-fine car named after it. Acura RDX. .

Sometimes, only an LC smilie can say what words can not: http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/99024504f61c3b197.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1423)

[Bell]

You failed to anger the beast. No badge.

Can I get some kind of badge? (scroll down a bit)

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=62553&page=6

:shocked: :catfight: :flamed: :jaw-dropp :dig:

[LashL]

Hey, that fits in with Loose Chan. It's Canada striking back. After all, the lawn carp that infest us are "Canada" geese. And we know they form in Vees to fly. They formed into the shape of 767's and they flew into the WTC carrying bombs.

Which fell down the elevators and... oh wait, the elevators were "hermetically sealed." I guess I'm just not very good at this.

Oh no, on the contrary, I think you're very good at it :)

The elevators are only "hermetically sealed" when the CTers want them to be able to keep liquid such as jet fuel out, but they are remarkably accessible as are all of the hoistways when the CTers need them to be in order to plant all of those solid explosives.

Goose Change is off to a great start! Do continue.

[CptColumbo]

You failed to anger the beast. No badge.

Don't I at least rate a obnoxious smilie?

[David Wong]

Sometimes, only an LC smilie can say what words can not: http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/99024504f61c3b197.gif

You also have to think of Jimmy "JJ" Walker and how he spent his career promoting a friendly view of high explosives. It's mind-boggling to think of how long this has been in the works.

[NDBoston]

Alex Jones checks in from Ground Zero

Alex Jones: Most Police, Firefighters Now Believe 9/11 Inside Job
Truth events at ground zero enjoy very encouraging reception

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | September 11 2006

Documentary film maker and radio host Alex Jones, coordinating today's 9/11 truth movement events in downtown New York City, says that the atmosphere around ground zero has dramatically changed, with the majority of firefighters and police officers now sympathetic to the claim that 9/11 was an inside job.

(AP News Video from other threads)

Alex is featured at the end of the Associated Press video above imploring viewers to understand that 9/11 was "a self-inflicted wound designed to create a police state in the U.S. and capture us as an engine for world government and world domination."

Alex was assigned to lead a protest march today which he described as over 1000 strong as it snaked across ground zero and through lower Manhattan.

Saying that the "entire atmosphere had changed," Alex explained how police support for protesters at ground zero had gone from 20% support two years ago to around 60% support now - with many willing to affirm that sentiment on camera and many knowledgeable about Alex Jones' work and the 9/11 truth movement.

"Police just saying 'keep your investigation going, we appreciate you' on video," said Jones.

"TerrorStorm sets a new standard in documentary filmmaking. Alex Jones knocks it out of the park yet again." -Dylan Avery, Director, "Loose Change"

"The firemen we've been talking to - a hundred per cent are on our side and have seen the documentary films....it is just incredible what's happened at the grass roots."

Jones said that the few debunkers who were spewing Bush administration style propaganda were met with distain from the police.

"I think that thing that triggered it was the fact that the government lied about the dust, the asbestos all of it," said Jones in citing why first responders and police have become increasingly skeptical about anything the government says about 9/11.

Alex later commenced a vocal bullhorning of ground zero and led a chant of "9/11 was an inside job," more on that to come tomorrow.

First of all, if he's claiming 1000 people, it's really 500. I also don't believe for a minute that the firefighters and police officers now believe it was an inside job. According to Alex Jones they were INVOLVED with it on 7WTC.

I wonder if that was Gravy and company spewing "Bush style propoganda"?

[Alareth]

"So Alex, where is the film footage of all the police and firemen showing the support of the belief that it was an inside job?"

"Oh, I didn't actually film them. Just knowing that they are willing to be filmed is all the evidence that is needed."

[WildCat]

The next victim of JDX's ban hammer (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13264&view=findpost&p=7195643):

No you are a moron Beck is a great American who is able to see the truth. Not some Michael Moore kook who purposely takes things out of context to attack the president. All the crap on loose change has been debunked and the venom you clowns spew is despicable. There is not one thing that hasn't been debunked. You are all like tranfixed. brainwashed Islamic facists who are standing in front of an evil dictator chanting. The sad thing is you have no interest in the truth and even when you are proven wrong, you won't accept it. You are all anti-American freaks who should be jailed or shipped to France. You people will do your best to destroy this country and are as sick as they get.

[CurtC]

btw, when DO we get to see Luba and her sister? ;)
I was in the subset of people that David described as having to really try, not to click that link. And I didn't! Yay for me!

...but Luba, and her sister?

[Arus808]

Oh great, I got spammed at Youtube by kook, thinking I thought "Loose Change" was interesting:


ATTENTION: For all of you who found Loose Change interesting....This new documentary regarding 9/11 blows Loose Change out of the water. Please watch this:

http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm
then
click and download 911 Mysteries (911 Mysteries Part 1 Demolitions 1of3 (WMV 47megs))
3 parts total

Anyone want to bother and see wtf this guy is talking about, and take on discrediting it?

[PopeTom]

A couple of things cam up in a LC discussion I am having elsewhere.

A person responded:

Arggggggg okay okay. I know my comment was rather mean but when I realized that I was sitting here debating with someone who I consider (and this is going to sound mean again) to be a close minded (and perhaps it's not his fault, I view Christianity as a disease really, everyone teaching others and "spreading the word" so maybe he's just fallen victim) and I just threw up my hands and gave up and wrote a long rant about how I can't stand religion.


The person he/she considers to be close minded happens to be me. Though I am unsure where he/she got the idea I am Christian. But looking at that paragraph could it also be written:


Arggggggg okay okay. I know my comment was rather mean but when I realized that I was sitting here debating with someone who I consider (and this is going to sound mean again) to be a close minded (and perhaps it's not his fault, I view Loose Change as a disease really, everyone teaching others and "spreading the word" so maybe he's just fallen victim) and I just threw up my hands and gave up and wrote a long rant about how I can't stand conspiracy theories.


My changes in bold. But before I posted that as a reply I wanted to see if anyone might be able to point me to a source where the creators of LC encourage their fan base to 'spread the word'.

He/she then ended with:

I think that the most important part (and my favorite thing to see anywhere) is that Loose Change asks questions. I think the film would have been just as successful if it wasn't about 9/11 at all, if it were simply a film encouraging people to question authority, ask questions, and to think for themselves. Too many are led blindly and they NEVER even stop to think "why?". We follow without knowing why, we believe without considering what we are really getting ourselves into. I think it's time to bust out with my favorite quote here --- Turn off your television and think for yourself!


Again bolding mine, the irony made my head hurt.

[MarkyX]

Oh great, I got spammed at Youtube by kook, thinking I thought "Loose Change" was interesting:


Anyone want to bother and see wtf this guy is talking about, and take on discrediting it?

I've seen it.

Same crap; Fires weren't hot on Floor 78 (we know, because that's not where the peak of the fire was), black smoke means oxygen starved, no steel frame building ever collapsed, comparing other buildings to the WTC, fires weren't hot enough to weaken (yep, they went there), "explosions = bombs", steel "melting", thermite, using "visual" evidence (orange flames) to determine the temperature of the fires, "squibs", south tower collapsing first....

The only thing I liked is they interview one person somewhat related to the matter: an architecture critic. They also use a 3D simulation of what happened inside, which is quite interesting.

[Belz...]

Again bolding mine, the irony made my head hurt.

Something we see very often. These people seem incapable of coping with the fact that intelligent, independent people could possibly disagree with them. Therefore they MUST be sheep.

[WildCat]

The latest bit of idiocy from the loosers. It seems that Roxdog believes Alex Jones asshatted claim that the Olympic symbol of 5 interlocking rings was designed by Adolf Hitler (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13440)!

Of course, it was actually designed in 1913 by Pierre de Coubertin. Not a pseudonym for Hitler btw.

[WildCat]

Now slick has pwned the poster who didn't buy the claim that Hitler designed the Olympic rings by providing evidence that the Olympics were once held in Nazi Germany.

This is proving educational in demostrating the convoluted logic of conspiracy nutters.

Pictures of Nazi participation in Olympics = proof that Hitler designed Olympic ring symbol. :boggled:

[Arus808]

oh, give them any subject at all, and Im sure they'll find some way to link it to hitler.

[Belz...]

[QUOTE]Of course, it was actually designed in 1913 by Pierre de Coubertin. Not a pseudonym for Hitler btw.

It took a whole 5 seconds of Google for me to figure that one out.

What a bunch of loons.

[DavidJames]

I'm banned, so if someone could provide a response to a typical bit of LC lunacy and poor reading and research skills.

piglightning pointed out an error in an Alex Jones movie. The LC crack research team came up with a rebuttal which doesn't quite hit the mark :D.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but here is the original comment was (bolding mine).alex claims adolph hitler sketched and designed the Olympic rings in his movie "911 martial law the rise of the police state".

The rebuttal used this quote (bolding mine)And it was Hitler's Nazi propaganda machine that popularized the five interlocking rings as the symbol of the Games. So that quote really doesn't address the original quote does it? It's pretty easy to google and find out the rings were found by Pierre de Coubertin way before hitler

http://www.mediaconcerto.com/olympic/trivia/flag_t.php

The LC thread is Loose Change Forum->Loose Change Lobby->The LC Lounge
Alex Jones Makes Stuff Up, his videos contain misinformation

[Arus808]

remember, in the loosers world, fact checking is a chore.

[Dog Town]

piglightning pointed out an error in an Alex Jones movie. The LC crack research team came up with a rebuttal which doesn't quite hit the mark

Freaky how fast those little bastards posted all the Natzi pics!!
I am sure they have nice collections, sheesh!
I also like how after they notice you were right , they attack you for ponting out the flaw. After all that, the maroon NesNyc(from SLC) shows up and acts like you were owned! Very odd these children!

[negativ]

oh, give them any subject at all, and Im sure they'll find some way to link it to hitler.

While simultaneously blaming The Jews<tm>.

[DavidJames]

Freaky how fast those little bastards posted all the Natzi pics!!
I am sure they have nice collections, sheesh!
I also like how after they notice you were right , they attack you for ponting out the flaw. After all that, the maroon NesNyc(from SLC) shows up and acts like you were owned! Verry odd these children!
The thread is now gone, poof, in a cloud of 99% pulverized concrete dust, pancaked into oblivion, CGI'd off the face of the earth, vaporized, buried into the ground, fallen into it's own footprint (somebody stop me)...

[Arus808]

While simultaneously blaming The Jews<tm>.

hmm. Im jewish...wonder if they'll find a way to link me to 9/11 (im not a practicing jew - otherwise, I wouldn't be broke all the time)

[Dog Town]

The thread is now gone, poof, in a cloud of 99% pulverized concrete dust, pancaked into oblivion, CGI'd off the face of the earth, vaporized, buried into the ground, fallen into it's own footprint (somebody stop me)...

Card CT sin, you showed them up. They were buzzing around when they thought you were wrong. Then Rox realised she was wrong, POOF, bye bye thread. Give the man a Badge!

[DavidJames]

Card CT sin, you showed them up. They were buzzing around when they thought you were wrong. Then Rox realised she was wrong, POOF, bye bye thread. Give the man a Badge!
I stand corrected...

Actually someone renamed the thread to Mistake in Martial Law 9/11

Also, I'm not piglightning, but I do admire their choice of a name.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The thread is now gone, poof, in a cloud of 99% pulverized concrete dust, pancaked into oblivion, CGI'd off the face of the earth, vaporized, buried into the ground, fallen into it's own footprint (somebody stop me)...


You forgot "pulled".

[Dog Town]

I stand corrected...

Actually someone renamed the thread to Mistake in Martial Law 9/11

Also, I'm not piglightning, but I do admire their choice of a name.

Strange how they remove, change thread names, etc..over there!
I always thought the perfect CT screen name, for there would be Jewish Lightning. Seeing as it is a conspiracy in and of itself.

[sleahead]

hmm. Im jewish...wonder if they'll find a way to link me to 9/11 (im not a practicing jew - otherwise, I wouldn't be broke all the time)

I'll give them a hand, Arus. Backwards, your username is Sura. Sura are the chapters of the Koran, holy book of the 19 gubmint patsies. Chapter 8 deals with:


Badr is also the subject of Sura 8: Al-Anfal, which details military conduct and operations. Though the Sura does not name Badr, it describes the battle several times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal

More than enough evidence to get you into Loose Change Final Cut, I think.

[Arus808]

Oh damn. And I just stole the name from a popular childrens' tv cartoon i grew up with (the name of the planet). So, Im assuming that the Cter's will now associate that cartoon with the jews/neo-cons/nwo/etc etc .

[negativ]

Birds of a feather... (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a4.mbCEWbsbQ&refer=home)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Oh damn. And I just stole the name from a popular childrens' tv cartoon i grew up with (the name of the planet). So, Im assuming that the Cter's will now associate that cartoon with the jews/neo-cons/nwo/etc etc .

Voltron FTW!

(ok, I'm a dork)

[ryanebelhar]

Umm, i had two diffrent forums open and posted in the wrong one. Whoops :(

[Arus808]

Voltron FTW!

(ok, I'm a dork)

haha, not as much as I am, Im afraid ^_^

[DavidJames]

Not sure who they are but "Chippy" and "Logarn" are doing a great job in the World Trade Center forum battling the loosers. Articulate and calm. It's driving them crazy :D

[realitybites]

We're at 108 pages here. When's Part V coming?

[jhunter1163]

I heard Bermas and Rowe taking calls yesterday on WBAI in New York (I know, but I was caught in traffic and couldn't get to work in time to post an alert to the ninjas). They had a guy call in who was at the Pentagon and saw the attack. You should have heard the backtracking. Maybe you can, if WBAI archives their morning show. Check it out at www.WBAI.org.

Point of all this is, it appears that the no-Pentagon-plane theory is going to be de-emphasized in LC3: The Unkindest Cut. Ninjas, be ready for whatever nonsense takes its place.

[Alareth]

We're at 108 pages here. When's Part V coming?

I was thinking the same thing.

Yoohoo ....Darat .. Are you there?

[Shrinker]

I think it might be best just to let this thread fizzle out. Or even lock it. It doesn't serve much use now we have an entire subforum. Unless of course Delphi Ote is trying for some kind of record.

[Alareth]

We have a Loose Change subforum?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

We have a Loose Change subforum?

I think it's more a matter of our debunking having grown beyond that one film and that we now have any entire subforum dedicated to conspiracy theories.

[chipmunk stew]

I heard Bermas and Rowe taking calls yesterday on WBAI in New York (I know, but I was caught in traffic and couldn't get to work in time to post an alert to the ninjas). They had a guy call in who was at the Pentagon and saw the attack. You should have heard the backtracking. Maybe you can, if WBAI archives their morning show. Check it out at www.WBAI.org (http://www.WBAI.org).

Point of all this is, it appears that the no-Pentagon-plane theory is going to be de-emphasized in LC3: The Unkindest Cut. Ninjas, be ready for whatever nonsense takes its place.
From http://archive.wbai.org/:
Sept 12--
6am stream (http://archive.wbai.org/pls.php?mp3fil=7910)
6am download (http://archive.wbai.org/files/mp3/060912_060001wuc.MP3)
7am stream (http://archive.wbai.org/pls.php?mp3fil=7911)
7am download (http://archive.wbai.org/files/mp3/060912_070001wuc.MP3)
8am stream (http://archive.wbai.org/pls.php?mp3fil=7912)
8am download (http://archive.wbai.org/files/mp3/060912_080001wuc.MP3)

What time were you stuck in traffic?

[Darat]

I had expected it to gradually but with dignity die.

Die you hydra of a thread!

[jhunter1163]

It would've been around 7:45 to 8:30. They played excerpts from the movie, then took questions, probably started w/questions around 8:10 to 8:15.

[Regnad Kcin]

I had expected it to gradually but with dignity die.

Die you hydra of a thread![CTer mode]

It just proves there's something going on when there's so much discussion with so many threads proves there's something to the allegations.

[CTer off]

And yes, I intended the grammar to be off.

[chipmunk stew]

It would've been around 7:45 to 8:30. They played excerpts from the movie, then took questions, probably started w/questions around 8:10 to 8:15.
Cool, thanks. Just fired up the 8am portion, and it's in the middle of the excerpts. So you're exactly right.

[Hellbound]

I had expected it to gradually but with dignity die.

Die you hydra of a thread!

It's already spawned three clones, dozens if not hundreds of siblings and children, and an entire subfora.

And you think you can kill it with your puny mod powers? :D

WORSHIP THE THREAD!!!!!

The thread that will not die has lost it's right to the title

[Kent1]

It's already spawned three clones, dozens if not hundreds of siblings and children, and an entire subfora.

And you think you can kill it with your puny mod powers? :D

WORSHIP THE THREAD!!!!!

The thread that will not die has lost it's right to the title
Here's an interesting new article
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2006/060911.Sozen.WTC.html

Scientists and engineers simulate jet colliding with World Trade Center

[Arus808]

Haha, on the road this morning here, Bill Handel (KFI AM), ripped into the creators of Loose Change (basically calling them dumb teenagers) and every CT puported.

[60hzxtl]

Point of all this is, it appears that the no-Pentagon-plane theory is going to be de-emphasized in LC3: The Unkindest Cut. Ninjas, be ready for whatever nonsense takes its place.

A prediction here, based on experience and reading of clues, so it doesn't qualify for psychic abilities.

I think that the next edition of Loose Change will be mostly talking heads interviews. (Think Clock Lady) first person interviews talking about what they observed, ("I heard a big ole 'sposion and and I knew the first of the 62 bombs was goin' off part of the controlled demolition. . . " ) or ("I knew a missile hit the pentagon 'cause common sense will tell you that. . . ")

Point a camera at people and they will do the darndest things. (I once had to get up at 4:30 AM to go film people sleeping in the streets of NY - were they homeless? No, they were trying out to be on American Idol!)

These people will be offered up as experts because they were there. Indisputable, though Irrelevant. It will be cheap to produce, interspersed with (we can only hope) paid for footage, and look more like something you'd expect to see on History Channel.

Boy producers will say 'airtight' when all they will have is a four leaf clover, picked from a field of clover; the one contradictory interview trumping all others, and all other testimony to the contrary.

This will keep them from having to call for another "Do-Over."

Good news is that they are loosing momentum as of 12 Sept. 2006

[chipmunk stew]

Cool, thanks. Just fired up the 8am portion, and it's in the middle of the excerpts. So you're exactly right.
The segment actually starts at about 25:30 in the 7am portion, for anyone who wants to hear the whole thing...

[realitybites]

Anyone else find it kind of odd that the radio station was asking for a $75 dollar donation for a movie anyone can see for free on Google?

[60hzxtl]

Anyone else find it kind of odd that the radio station was asking for a $75 dollar donation for a movie anyone can see for free on Google?

Audit Dylan Avery!

[Arus808]

any word of the suit against Dylan and company by the Naudet brothers?

[CurtC]

I think that the next edition of Loose Change will be mostly talking heads interviews.
I was going to post the same thing. The LTW crew has figured out that every time they try to present something as factual, they get slammed, so they're going for the softer stuff.

It will be talking heads, largely talking about the various coincidences (Killtown listed 200). Coincidences (if they're true, and many are) can't be debunked. Darwinian processes applied to Loose Change.

[DavidJames]

I was going to post the same thing. The LTW crew has figured out that every time they try to present something as factual, they get slammed, so they're going for the softer stuff.

It will be talking heads, largely talking about the various coincidences (Killtown listed 200). Coincidences (if they're true, and many are) can't be debunked. Darwinian processes applied to Loose Change.I would also expect a lot of innuendo by juxtaposition videos and pictures.

[David Wong]

And accusations disguised as questions.

"And what did this man..."

(Picture)

"...have to gain from these attacks? Why did he cancel his flight at the last moment?"


There's no accusation there, technically, so nothing to debunk. It's not libel if you put a question mark at the end of it.

[David Wong]

Close to 25,000 readers on my article (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html), by the way, largely thanks to some of the people here. Though I believe in that same span Loose Change has been downloaded by ten times as many, so...

[Bell]

And accusations disguised as questions.

"And what did this man..."

(Picture)

"...have to gain from these attacks? Why did he cancel his flight at the last moment?"


There's no accusation there, technically, so nothing to debunk. It's not libel if you put a question mark at the end of it.

And hey, that's what they do.
Just asking questions.

Their new moovy(tm) will contain eyewitness acounts like:

"Did you see a airplane flying over?"
"Yes, I did."
"Did you see it crash into the Pentagon?"
"No, I didn't."

So, if it didn't crash into the Pentagon, where did that plane go?
Just asking questions.

[jon]

And accusations disguised as questions.

"And what did this man..."

(Picture)

"...have to gain from these attacks? Why did he cancel his flight at the last moment?"


There's no accusation there, technically, so nothing to debunk. It's not libel if you put a question mark at the end of it.

This could be fun: 'and is Dylan Avery a defiler of virgin goats?' [juxtapose pic of Dylan and pic of goat]. 'what you have to ask yourself is - what would Dylan gain from defiling goats'. [cut to prof talking about bestiality] :D

[DavidJames]

This could be fun: 'and is Dylan Avery a defiler of virgin goats?' [juxtapose pic of Dylan and pic of goat]. 'what you have to ask yourself is - what would Dylan gain from defiling goats'. [cut to prof talking about bestiality] :Dfinal cut is to a side by side picture of Dylan and the goat both smoking a cigarette.

[jhunter1163]

And you'll notice that Dylan has NEVER DENIED defiling virgin goats. I'm just asking questions...

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

And you'll notice that Dylan has NEVER DENIED defiling virgin goats. I'm just asking questions...

Actually, you would have to phrase it more like, "And why hasn't Dylan ever denied defiling virgin goats?"

[Skibum]

And you'll notice that Dylan has NEVER DENIED defiling virgin goats. I'm just asking questions...


Actually, I believe he did.

I overheard him saying "it wasn't a virgin".

[jhunter1163]

And then you'd add, with a backbeat of techno music, "And Dylan lives in Oneonta, NY, a RURAL area, where goats are kept. Coincidence?... We're just asking questions..."

[jon]

Of course, you could go further than Loose Change and make some phone calls to investigate. Call Dylan up - 'Mr Avery, was the goat you defiled a virgin?' I can guarantee that any response he gave would fit perfectly into a CT-type vid.

Oh yeah, and found a nice example of asking questions on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Loose_Change_%28video%29&curid=4042257&diff=75548793&oldid=75445573). Just asking questions about whether 'Mark Roberts' is what they claim to be...

I am new to Wikipedia. Recently I came across the link to Mark Robert's critique on this wikipedia page. I followed the link and examined the site. In the spirit of this whole matter I asked myself a basic and obvious question: Who is Mark Roberts. I started researching Mark Roberts and I found almost nothing about him. Also, there is no bio information on the site. I had the nagging feeling that I have seen this kind of thing before.
+
+ There is a well established and documented site about electronic voting problems and fraud. In discussions with my local Registrar of Voters, she cited a site countering its claims. I went to the cite to investigate. There was no bio information about the author on the site. I and others made inquiries asking the person to identify himself. No answer was received. About a year later it was discovered that the "person" was a paid hack for Diebold, a vendor of electronic voting systems with an obvious vested interest in countering the negative publicity they were receiving.
+
+
+ I have emailed Mark Roberts and asked him to identify himself by providing some bio information. To date I have received no response. In the interim I searched through the loose change web site forums and found that I was not the first person to question the identity of Mark Roberts, and posters cited evidence that Mark Roberts was positing on other forums under different names.
+
+ It is far too easy for a "Mark Roberts" to seed doubt and confusion, and to sap time and energy from people who are fighting the "conventional wisdom". This is not to say that the information in the Mark Roberts critique is wrong, it is to say that full disclosure should be required when linking to an information source. If Mark Roberts is a person, let him identify himself and provide background about himself and his many sources. If not a person, then let the group identify itself and its many sources. Until then, I urge you to pull the link, any link, unless the source can be reasonably verified as being who or what it purports to be.--[[User:Jonbarril|jonb]] 18:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[DavidJames]

Actually, I believe he did.

I overheard him saying "it wasn't a virgin".You NWO shill, quoting the good Mr. Avery out of context again. The entire quote was:


"it wasn't a virgin, none of them were"

[CurtC]

To adapt an old aggie joke...


JREFers: "...and we heard Dylan Avery has sex with goats, dogs, chickens, sheep, and horses."

Dylan Avery: "CHICKENS !?!"

[Alareth]

Just asking questions about whether 'Mark Roberts' is what they claim to be...

No, it's Mark Ferguson ... Wait ... Mark Farrington

No, it can't be Mark Farrington. I'm Mark Farrington ... I'm not Gravy ... Am I? I'm confused now. I've never been to New York.

Gravy, just who are you? ;)

[Gravy]

I had expected it to gradually but with dignity die.
You are one crazy optimist, Darat!

[Gravy]

No, it's Mark Ferguson ... Wait ... Mark Farrington

No, it can't be Mark Farrington. I'm Mark Farrington ... I'm not Gravy ... Am I? I'm confused now. I've never been to New York.

Gravy, just who are you? ;)
I met the other me on Monday. On Saturday, Alex Jones called me "Mark Ferguson," and said he'd read my work. Well, I'm sure he hasn't read my work, but Jones and I have both been on the email list of debunker Mark Ferran, who was at GZ. So that's who I am. Who the hell are you?

[Alareth]

I met the other me on Monday. On Saturday, Alex Jones called me "Mark Ferguson," and said he'd read my work. Well, I'm sure he hasn't read my work, but Jones and I have both been on the email list of debunker Mark Ferran, who was at GZ. So that's who I am. Who the hell are you?

As far as I can tell, for the last 36 years I've been me.

[Gravy]

Of course, you could go further than Loose Change and make some phone calls to investigate. Call Dylan up - 'Mr Avery, was the goat you defiled a virgin?' I can guarantee that any response he gave would fit perfectly into a CT-type vid.

Oh yeah, and found a nice example of asking questions on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Loose_Change_%28video%29&curid=4042257&diff=75548793&oldid=75445573) (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Loose_Change_%28video%29&curid=4042257&diff=75548793&oldid=75445573%29). Just asking questions about whether 'Mark Roberts' is what they claim to be...
Bwahahaha! I did get an email from him (last name Barrilleaux). This was my response:

BarrilleauxChek
Chek=No
Hold Not Approved
NoDirectAuth
ttBlockSatAutoresponse
UpSat
z
z
zd261135a355
Go
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++/001
Waiting
Waiting
Waiting
Waiting
zww78935002d0/bmqrij09w00/SatUplink/Onyx/yes/OnyxGo
OnyxPgmChek
OnyxPgmOK
Waiting
Waiting
Rerouting
ConnectNSAConnectprotocolNSAMD-NSANYC003
Waiting for authorization
NSApga1rraunogitd1lkg10r018y5h82_qrnbpif2h-85u1njb3]0I)OOOafbabqo__*MarkRobertsPseudoGo
EncryptAuthMarkRobertsMerck1ConAg1Archer1Archer2KB R18yq3iujyo
GoPwdNSANYC256b+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++/002
Operator code required
Waiting
Waiting
Waiting
OP26MIDATLxSatxflyboy
Operator code approved
flyboyGo

This is an automated response. Please do not reply.

Re:Re: who are you?

Dear Barrilleaux,

Sorry I missed your email. I will be , 2006out of the office until S
Retry+++++++++++S++++++ep
OnyxConnectionFailed
Reconnect
FailChek=Yes
Waiting
Waiting for authorization
NSApga1rraunogitd1lkg10r018y5h82_qrnbpif2h-85u1njb3]0I)OOOafbabqo__*MarkRobertsPseudoGo
EncryptAuthMarkRobertsMerck1ConAg1Archer1Archer2KB R18yq3iujyo
GoPwdNSANYC256b+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++/002
OpReChek=OK
FailChek=OK
NSANYC003=OK

If you require immediate assistance, please contact Mark Roberts at nyctours@gmail.com

Thank you, and have a great day!

Mark Roberts


flyboyStop
OnyxStop

[jon]

I like :) Now the question is - will that show up on CT sites to PROVE that you're a shill?

[Alareth]

Gravy, you should talk to RLancaster. Kaz didn't believe he existed either.

You, MarkyX and RLancaster could become the JREF Phantom Skeptic Brigade.

[Gravy]

I like :) Now the question is - will that show up on CT sites to PROVE that you're a shill?
It better. I put too much non-thought into that for it to go to waste.

[Abbyas]

Dear Barrilleaux,

Sorry I missed your email. I will be , 2006out of the office until S
Retry+++++++++++S++++++ep
OnyxConnectionFailed
Reconnect
FailChek=Yes
Waiting

Gdammit, that was funny.

[T.A.M.]

I am officially done debating with CTers, and this is why:

My post at DU:
yes, if you are to believe the collected, cut and pasted parts that add up to the CT version of the "controlled Demolition" of WTC1 and 2, here is what you must admit...

1. That Thermate or Thermite was used (only way to explain absence of conventional sequence of 100+ detonation explosions and accompanying flashes), despite the fact that it has NOT been used for the demolition of a building anywhere.

2. That they used a previously untried form of controlled demolition, where you initiate the collapse from the floor of plane impact, and have it collapse from the top down. This, also, has never before done in "controlled demolition".

3. That someone was on the ground or in a building nearby with a remote control, waiting to see which floor the plane would hit, so that he could detonate the "Thermate" on that level first, providing us with the "Top down" demolition we observed.

4. That there was enough time and secrecy available that teams of demolitions people could plant these "Thermate" explosives on the Steel columns, requiring removal of the walls, then planting the explosives, then redoing the walls, so noone would notice (polyfilla not gonna do it). Knowing that the Landmark tower, a 30 storey building brought down by conventional "controlled demolition", took 4 months of unlimited access to the building to rig, it is likely that to rig two 110 storey buildings, we are talking years of continuous access, or decades of weekends and nights...

5. That noone of all the people who would have planted the explosives would ever breath a word of it to anyone.

Shall I go on...

TAM

A reply from some CTer named petgoat:
Thermite...has NOT been used for the demolition of a building anywhere.

So what? Do you have any doubt that if you sever the core columns of a hundred story
tower, it will collapse? Besides, there was the fail safe of the explosives. Redundant
systems were employed.

That they used a previously untried form of controlled demolition, where you initiate
the collapse from the floor of plane impact, and have it collapse from the top down.

What exactly do you anticipate going wrong? Do you have any doubt that if you explode the
top of a hundred story tower, and five seconds later you explode the middle, and five
seconds later explode the bottom, that it will come down?

someone was on the ground or in a building nearby with a remote control, waiting to
see which floor the plane would hit

If the planes homed in on radio beacons placed in the towers, then the impace zone could
be predicted precisely. What about radio control do you find implausible?

requiring removal of the walls, then planting the explosives, then redoing the walls

How often are the elevator shafts inspected? What walls need be removed? There were many
vacant floors. Have you ever seen how much space there is above the suspended ceiling of
an office building?

That noone of all the people who would have planted the explosives would ever breath a
word of it to anyone.

Dead men tell no tales, and pro spooks are rarely chatty about their work.

Shall I go on...

You'll have to do better than what you did.

and my reply to him:
forget it...there is no convincing anyone who believes the crap anyway...believe what you want. It is funny though, that the supermastergeniuses who were able to pull all of that off, and so much more that day, couldnt plant a few WMDs and labs in the entire country of Iraq. How much easier their life would be...how much more sure of a win in 2008 they would be if only they could have planted them...but no...they couldn't...they werent good enough...but they could plant explosives in 3 buildings, fly remote controlled planes into them, shoot crusie missiles into the pentagon, immitate voices in real time...cause that stuff is easy compared to dropping a few guys down into Iraq to set up a couple of labs and chemical weapons...yup.

TAM

So I am done with them. They are useless anyway. From now on my role is to annoy them, mock them, and to try and educate the naive, the fence sitters, and the unsure. I am fed up with those guys...

TAM

[stateofgrace]

So I am done with them. They are useless anyway. From now on my role is to annoy them, mock them, and to try and educate the naive, the fence sitters, and the unsure. I am fed up with those guys...

TAM


I can relate to your story entirely. I tried and tried to debate with these guys. I have researched and investigated this event to the point I can almost debunk their theories off the top of my head or know exactly where to find a link to do so.
I know now it is pointless, totally and absolutely pointless trying to reason with those that really subscribe to this, they will never change their minds.
I got to the point of saying "sod it believe what you want” on the British forum. Simply due to the constant barrage of insults and brick walls I kept running into.
So now I eat pop corn and try to keep up with events as they progress.

I know there are many, many people here and else where that can simply wipe the floor with these conspirators. I also know I am comfortable with what I have learnt and know about this event. This is something the conspirators will never have. The ability to relax, accept reality become comfortable and move on.

[Kent1]

Petgoat also defended the spooked rabbit cage/ twin towers experiment.
He's really not mentally all there.

The more you read the CT posts, the more you realize you've just signed up for fantasy camp.

[T.A.M.]

StateofGrace:

Thank you. I can see you totally know where I am coming from, and it is very comforting to know that there are others like me, who see it that way.

Kent1:
I can tell he is a completely won over CT guru. It just got to me that he thinks he "nailed" me with his response, when clearly what I said was true, and his explanations were just embarrassingly insane, but that was it...it was like I looked into the eye of the ancient evil nutbar and saw there was no saving any of them.

TAM

[Submersible]

wow! this thread finally made it off the front page.

I just wanted to post this link here since this thread was so popular and it goes along with the rest of the warnings and help I was trying to offer you.

http://www.parkc.org/GeneticEngCancer.htm

I'm not saying that I KNOW what and how this happened either, but if you are interested in reading some non-controversial and incriminating evidence against the USG, or one that contains evidence that the ARE intentionally destroying our health on purpose...
walla !

http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/Green-Revolution-Revolving.htm

for you wise guys, this should read like a quick "howdy doody" episode, and it appears to be almost as simple for most people to understand.

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/GE3/rBGH-Got-Pus.htm

food for thought ?

[Belz...]

Thought ?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

This is related to the thread topic how?

[T.A.M.]

This is a wonderful article by a Rhodes Scholar, a Canadian, and a man born of the same province I was, Newfoundland.

Rex Murphy Speaks on 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists (http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_060912.html)

TAM

[David Wong]

So, seriously, if I leave and come back five years from now, are people still going to be having these exact same discussions?

[Hellbound]

So, seriously, if I leave and come back five years from now, are people still going to be having these exact same discussions?

Yes and no.

By that time, we'll have a new "click and post" interface. You won't actually have to type put your arguments. The CTers will select theirs from a drop-down list box, and then a reply will be automatically generated including links to the 27+ posts that have already been made debunking this argument.

[Jennie C.]

final cut is to a side by side picture of Dylan and the goat both smoking a cigarette.

Can't we make him defile a goose? It would help with Goose Change....

[Gravy]

food for thought ?
Yes, I'm wondering why the hell you're posting this in the Loose Change thread. Start a new thread, please, and stop spamming us with this crap.

[Jennie C.]

You NWO shill, quoting the good Mr. Avery out of context again. The entire quote was:

"it wasn't a virgin, none of them were"

And has he stopped beating his goats?? (or gooses)

[jon]

Can't we make him defile a goose? It would help with Goose Change....

That's the great thing about CTs - this would just as well if you asserted that Dylan were defiling goats, or geese, or bigfoot :D Just like the 9/11 CT works just as well if were talking about the CIA or MI6 or Jews or masons or big lizard aliens being responsible for the conspiracy. I agree, though - it was definitely the geese that were responsible ;)

[Gravy]

Extra-Bwahahaha!

2) I finally received a reply from Mark Roberts (at itmatters@mail.com). It was received two days after my email, which is odd for an "out of office" reply, which are usually immediate. Also, the email text is embedded with a lot of cryptic gibberish of the form:

BarrilleauxChek
Chek=No
Hold Not Approved
NoDirectAuth
ttBlockSatAutoresponse
UpSat
...
Waiting
Rerouting
ConnectNSAConnectprotocolNSAMD-NSANYC003
Waiting for authorization
NSApga1rraunogitd1lkg10r018y5h82_qrnbpif2h-85u1njb3]0I)OOOafbabqo__*MarkRobertsPseudoGo
EncryptAuthMarkRobertsMerck1ConAg1Archer1Archer2KB R18yq3iujyo
...

Anyone want to venture a guess as to what this might be? I've never seen this before and neither have any of my colleagues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Loose_Change_%28video%29#Mark_Roberts_critiqu e

[apathoid]

Extra-Bwahahaha!

[/URL]

OMFGWTF!!11!! PWN3D!!1[url=http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1423]http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/99024504f61c3b197.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Loose_Change_%28video%29#Mark_Roberts_critiqu e)

Damn, these people are dumb.

[defaultdotxbe]

this is kinda liek when your playing with your dog with a tennis ball and you make like you throw the ball and but you actually hold it and the dog goes running after nothing

poor little CT-puppies.....

[TjW]

Well... The dog is smarter.

[apathoid]

this is kinda liek when your playing with your dog with a tennis ball and you make like you throw the ball and but you actually hold it and the dog goes running after nothing

poor little CT-puppies.....

The crazy thing this, not only do they run after it - they find it and bring it back!

[jon]

OMFGWTF!!11!! PWN3D!!1http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/99024504f61c3b197.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1423)

Damn, these people are dumb.

Now that is classic :D

hm, if the mods were to delete certain posts - on the off-chance that any CTers go to the extreme lengths of using google to check their facts - some cynical people might like to see how far this can run... Perhaps we could have a prize for anyone who can convince them that Gravy killed JFK ;)

[Gravy]

The really sad thing is that someone on Wikipedia was being nice and told him that I posted here as Gravy, and gave the link. I also gave him my regular email addy, which I check more often. But did he check here or try my other email? Noooooooooo, that would go against every CT precept.

[Dog Town]

But did he check here or try my other email? Noooooooooo, that would go against every CT precept.

Hehe, fish'en for fools is fun! You caught a keeper. Wiki Bwahaha......
Screen shot worthy?

[Class]

Extra-Bwahahaha!





:dl:

Gravy, you just made my day.

[Abbyas]

2) I finally received a reply from Mark Roberts (at itmatters@mail.com). It was received two days after my email, which is odd for an "out of office" reply, which are usually immediate. Also, the email text is embedded with a lot of cryptic gibberish of the form:

BarrilleauxChek
Chek=No
Hold Not Approved
NoDirectAuth
ttBlockSatAutoresponse
UpSat

You are a baaaaad man.

[gumboot]

Classic!

:dl:

-Andrew

[Brainache]

Gravy is so good on roasted Goose.
I am going to be chuckling over that little exchange for days.

[Blue Mountain]

This is a wonderful article by a Rhodes Scholar, a Canadian, and a man born of the same province I was, Newfoundland.

Rex Murphy Speaks on 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists (http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_060912.html)

TAM
Great stuff from Rex, as always!

[WildCat]

Mods, please move this thread to another forum!

Breaking news (http://www.loosechange911.com/):
We are not conspiracy theorists by any stretch.

:dl:

[Regnad Kcin]

Yes, I remember when I was 10 and played Opposite Day. Sweet memories of youth.

[gumboot]

Mods, please move this thread to another forum!

Breaking news (http://www.loosechange911.com/):

:dl:


Anyone spot the number of factual errors and dishonest presentations of information just in that one little front page?

-Andrew

[Alareth]

Please tell me that I'm hallcinating and they DIDN'T compare themselves to Ghandi ....

[CptColumbo]

I celebrated the 5th year +2day anniversary of the first time I gave blood, by giving blood again. I first gave blood the day after 9/11/01, in hopes of helping the victims in NYC and DC. Unfortunately, it turned out they didn't need as much as they predicted since there weren't as many survivors. When I got my Red Cross card in the mail I found out I'm an O-(universal donor), and now give as often as I can (safely).

This time I was reading Debunking 9/11 Myths while I waited for the bag to fill up (anything to keep me from looking at the needle), I also noticed that many of the techs were wearing "Remember 9/11" pins. As one was disconecting me she asked what the book was like, if it was for or against the CTs. I told her what it was about and she looked relieved, and sent me to get my cookies and juice. Another donar soon joined me and told me he was an Air Traffic Controller who worked on 9/11 at MSP. He even tracked Air Force One and it's escort fighters over Nebraska, since there wasn't very many alternative things to track once all the commercial planes were down. He also told me had yet to meet an ATC who believed the CTs. I had to leave, otherwise I would have talked longer (if only for the endless supply of Fig Newtons).

[Belz...]

We are not conspiracy theorists by any stretch.

No, indeed. No need to stretch at all.

[WildCat]

Extra-Bwahahaha!




What_the_hell?

:D

[Kent1]

What_the_hell?

:D
Guys, the CITGO videotape just came out.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Longsought_911_videotape_didnt_capture_attack_0915 .html

The Doubletree Hotel near the Pentagon will be out by November 9, 2006

[Kent1]

Guys, the CITGO videotape just came out.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Longsought_911_videotape_didnt_capture_attack_0915 .html

The Doubletree Hotel near the Pentagon will be out by November 9, 2006

After all of the CT whining it shows nothing. LOL! Just as I thought.

[kookbreaker]

After all of the CT whining it shows nothing. LOL! Just as I thought.

Indeed. I wasn't able to play the video (I'm at work) but I assume its just shots of the pumps?

Who the heck would set up security such that it is focused on an office building way the heck over somewhere else?

[chipmunk stew]

Guys, the CITGO videotape just came out.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Longsought_911_videotape_didnt_capture_attack_0915 .html

The Doubletree Hotel near the Pentagon will be out November 9, 2006
It's a total fake. I mean, come on--they've had five years to produce something like this, and this is all they could come up with? I mean, it's just ridiculous.

[T.A.M.]

it doesn't really even show the pumps much, mainly instore stuff.

TAM

[Arus808]

it doesn't really even show the pumps much, mainly instore stuff.

TAM

which is pretty much, for every citgo I've been to, and you can see their "security" monitor, only shows anyway.

Why these morons think it'd show anything other than that, shows that they've never been to a gas station in the last 15 years.

[Kent1]

Skeptic just came out with an article
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11.html
Not much new info.

[defaultdotxbe]

it doesn't really even show the pumps much, mainly instore stuff.

TAM
i would gather they are more concerned with holdups than driveoffs, and even less concerned with hats happening at the pentagon

[T.A.M.]

From now on, I am referring to the bottom feeders that go on our blogs and forums simply to spam and cus us out as "Truth Trolls". it is nifty, and totally fits them.

TAM

[negativ]

I expect this will finally and irrefutably out me as a not-to-be-trusted weirdo, but I see this bit of magnificence (http://fat-pie.com/pulch.htm) as a metaphor for the rise and fall of the 9/11 "truth" movement.

Note: It's approximately 99.037925% certain that the creator of the aforementioned was not even remotely thinking of 9/11 deniers when he created it. It just struck me that way. Take it or leave it, or don't.

[T.A.M.]

Marvelous video...So shall we rename them the 9/11 "Pulch" movement.

TAM

[steve s]

Breaking news:

Originally posted by Dylan Avery:
We are not conspiracy theorists by any stretch.



Dylan's right. Theories have to be based on evidence, and they have no evidence.

Steve S.

[CptColumbo]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13827&st=30#entry7260558

I hope this doesn't get me banned, but I couldn't let it go.

[CptColumbo]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13827&st=30#entry7260558

I hope this doesn't get me banned, but I couldn't let it go.

Yeah, it got me banned (I think, I can't view the site anymore and it gives no date of when I might return).

They were accussing JREFers of being sheeple and I wrote that "I saw some sheeple on Monday, they were easy to spot since they all wore the same type of shirt and marched in a line chanting the same thing, then they crowded around their shepard and chanted some more."

What about that was offensive?

[Bell]

Yeah, it got me banned (I think, I can't view the site anymore and it gives no date of when I might return).

They were accussing JREFers of being sheeple and I wrote that "I saw some sheeple on Monday, they were easy to spot since they all wore the same type of shirt and marched in a line chanting the same thing, then they crowded around their shepard and chanted some more."

What about that was offensive?

Edit: my mistake...

[T.A.M.]

Columbo:

F&*K them. You hit the nail on the head. they, much more so than the rest of the world, are the perfect examples of Sheeple. They pray to the same Gods (LTW, AJ, etc..), they all believe the exact godamn things, they went to GZ and they all did the exact same thing, wore the same clothes.


Here is an example of some thinking on the WTC collapses over at DU:

Edited on Thu Sep-14-06 05:26 AM by DoYouEverWonder
They were blown up, not down. I'm not sure how they did it but it was not a CD. Wiring and charges aren't necessary if you use a weapon or a big enough bomb. My guess is some sort of thermobaric weapon(s) that uses fuel. They could have been delivered the morning of the attack, via the freight elevators which you could drive onto with a truck or a van.

In regards to WTC 7, that is another matter entirely. This building fell like a classic CD, however once again wiring and setting charges was not necessary. The building had been remodeling after 1993 attack, when Rudy Giuliani decided to install his OEM bunker in the building. At that time, diesel fuel storage tanks were installed in a sublevel with a pressurized fuel line system that covered most of the 5th floor to feed the day tanks and a number of generators that were also installed on the 5th floor.

The pressurized fuel lines on the 5th floor run directly under the trusses and transfer beams. On 9-11, when the building was evacuated and abandoned to the fire, no one bothered to turn off the back up power systems. When the electric went off, the generators kicked in. When the days tanks ran out, then the pressurized system kicked in pulling fuel up from the tanks in the sublevel of the building. It would not have been difficult, especially if the system was rigged to begin with, to open up these fuel lines at key points to either ignite a fuse at just the right time, or to just burn and melt a few crucial connections that could bring the building down.

Where to begin...

TAM

[CptColumbo]

Edit: my mistake...

I think he was actually refering to the LC crowd, at least that's the impression I got.

BTW Shrinker where's my badge?

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1911942&postcount=4248

It's ironic that they took away your sig. "Sometimes irony can be pretty ironic."

[Bell]

I think he was actually refering to the LC crowd, at least that's the impression I got.

BTW Shrinker where's my badge?

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1911942&postcount=4248

It's ironic that they took away your sig. "Sometimes irony can be pretty ironic."

Yep, I got that too, afterwards. D'oh! Checked a few of his threads, to be sure.

So shame on me :boxedin:

[negativ]

Yeah, it got me banned (I think, I can't view the site anymore and it gives no date of when I might return).

They were accussing JREFers of being sheeple and I wrote that "I saw some sheeple on Monday, they were easy to spot since they all wore the same type of shirt and marched in a line chanting the same thing, then they crowded around their shepard and chanted some more."

What about that was offensive?

It says you're a member of group: Banned. :(

I'm wondering, though, if maybe the person who posted behind you actually did you in:

I can think of some other people who gathered together in identical uniforms to chant the same thing over and over. I'm still amazed that they all got their hands to go up in the air in perfect unison.

Then he/she inlined the famous photo of the Nuremberg Nazi party rally.

[CptColumbo]

Roxdog is asking for the spot where someone wrote that they should pretend to be members of victims families. I remember this, but I don't remember where. Does someone have a link and could PM it to TS1234?

BTW now JDX is using Shrinker's picture as his avatar, since I was banned I can't point out the irony of this.

[T.A.M.]

is TS1234 = Roxdog?

[CptColumbo]

is TS1234 = Roxdog?
It would seem so, but of course that would make it a sock puppet for conspiracybeliever.

[Pardalis]

I had the impression TS1234 was Terrorcell.

[T.A.M.]

interesting, because from my lurking and reading of Roxdogs posts, he seems more juvenile and angry over on the LC board.

TAM

[CptColumbo]

I may be jumping to conclusions, if I am wrong I apologise. It seems Roxdog is doing the majority of the reporting on TS1234's activities, so I assumed that they are the same person.

[Pardalis]

I may be jumping to conclusions, if I am wrong I apologise. It seems Roxdog is doing the majority of the reporting on TS1234's activities, so I assumed that they are the same person.

I bet he's focusing his report solely on Darth Rotor's unfortunate comment and not on the hundreds of concise and polite debunkings he got... :rolleyes:

[LashL]

This is a wonderful article by a Rhodes Scholar, a Canadian, and a man born of the same province I was, Newfoundland.

Rex Murphy Speaks on 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists (http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_060912.html)

TAM

That's an excellent piece, TAM.

This sums up the tinhatters nicely:

a whole whirlwind of broken logic and wishful thinking, malice and misinformation trying desperately to dress up as truth.

[LashL]

Extra-Bwahahaha!





Wow - talk about being "bukkaked with stupid". That exchange is absolutely hilarious.

[T.A.M.]

Rex is an extremely astute, and articulate man. He doesn't seem to favor either political side, As I have seen him exhibit both conservative and liberal tendencies depending upon the issue. The article really sums it up in a very artciulate way...IMO.

TAM

[CptColumbo]

BTW In my defense I never said they were the sheeple.

[T.A.M.]

Yeah, it got me banned (I think, I can't view the site anymore and it gives no date of when I might return).

They were accussing JREFers of being sheeple and I wrote that "I saw some sheeple on Monday, they were easy to spot since they all wore the same type of shirt and marched in a line chanting the same thing, then they crowded around their shepard and chanted some more."

What about that was offensive?

True, you never actually said "You guys are sheeple".

TAM

[CptColumbo]

True, you never actually said "You guys are sheeple".

TAM


On the other hand they accussed the "JREFers" of being Sheeple.

[brodski]

True, you never actually said "You guys are sheeple".

TAM

Well, the loosers love to live by the old saying, "if the jackboot fits..." ;)

[Shrinker]

On the other hand they accussed the "JREFers" of being Sheeple.

Sorry for the delay Columbo - I've been away. Here's your badge (finally). Very well deserved it is too.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/3617447af0dad1e6c.jpg

[T.A.M.]

Shrinker:

A little birdie told me JDX over at LC etc.. is using your avatar. Is it true? Say it isnt so.

TAM

[Shrinker]

Shrinker:

A little birdie told me JDX over at LC etc.. is using your avatar. Is it true? Say it isnt so.

TAM

It is true, and I'm very amused by it. He's managed to mangle it so that you can't read the text though.

ETA: He's not using my avatar, he's using that sig banner that I did. My avatar is far to cute for a macho buffoon like him.

[Dog Town]

Well scratch unipeak from the list of proxies to view LC.
GoldiLox at LC blocked em! There are others! He has lost his freaken mind!

[60hzxtl]

Oh look kids!

Somebody stole Dylan's title!

http://imdb.com/title/tt0839892/

[CptColumbo]

Oh look kids!

Somebody stole Dylan's title!

http://imdb.com/title/tt0839892/

Those darn joos!

[CptColumbo]

Here's another one of the leaders of the "truth" movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQZT9Hzvt8&eurl=

Notice how he uses the phrases "we don't know" and "we don't understand."

So he seems to be saying that he can't make his case, but it makes more sense than what everyone saw.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Dylan Avery: Hey man, look at me rocking out, I'm on the radio...

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/06.09.14.NewDesecrater-X.gif

The only thing more disgusting is a pedophile.

-z

[Dog Town]

The only thing more disgusting is a pedophile.

-z

Considering how he soils the children, he comes in contact with!
I think pedophile is a perfect tag for Doolan Ovary!

[LashL]

oops - double post.

[LashL]

Hi LL I read most of your 15 rounds with Jondoex at the CN. Shame you got banned.

JDX has never flown a plane, Billzilla showed that over at LC. JDX just doesnt have the confidence that pilots have.

Hi DHR.

I didn't actually get banned from CN - That's just another thing that JDX gets wrong :D

(I noticed that he said something about me at LC to that effect just today. The truth - something that is alien to the D'ohboy - is that I have not been banned from CN. I posted there last night, in fact.)

[Gravy]

Here's another one of the leaders of the "truth" movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQZT9Hzvt8&eurl=

Notice how he uses the phrases "we don't know" and "we don't understand."

So he seems to be saying that he can't make his case, but it makes more sense than what everyone saw.
He calls flight 175 hitting the south tower "a cartoon display." Okay, Gravy's going for a long walk in Brooklyn's last remaining forest, where he can knock some trees down with his fists and scream primally without disturbing anyone.

[CptColumbo]

He calls flight 175 hitting the south tower "a cartoon display." Okay, Gravy's going for a long walk in Brooklyn's last remaining forest, where he can knock some trees down with his fists and scream primally without disturbing anyone.

I love when the anchor makes him reiterate that he called it a "cartoon."

[Bell]

He calls flight 175 hitting the south tower "a cartoon display." Okay, Gravy's going for a long walk in Brooklyn's last remaining forest, where he can knock some trees down with his fists and scream primally without disturbing anyone.

Funny how he talks about gubmint proof, put has no clue himself whatsoever.

He doesn't know how they did that amazing live CGI shot.
He doesn't know where the planes are.

:confused:

[njslim]

>>He calls flight 175 hitting the south tower "a cartoon display." >>

Several dozen of my co-workers on the upper floors of our building at the
oil refinery in Linden NJ witnessed UAL 175 plough into the South Tower
I remember my boss coming downstairs to my office and telling us what they
saw. Many of those who witnessed it are still too freaked out to talk about
what they saw.

Any chance can get 5 min with this cretin and my Louisville Slugger?

[kevin]

Several dozen of my co-workers on the upper floors of our building at the oil refinery in Linden NJ witnessed UAL 175 plough into the South Tower I remember my boss coming downstairs to my office and telling us what they saw. Many of those who witnessed it are still too freaked out to talk about what they saw.


Welcome to the boards!

Yeah, over in another thread Gravy talks about these people trying to tell one of the Pentagon morgue people that he didn't really pull dead bodies out of the building. Unbelievable.

[Belz...]

>>He calls flight 175 hitting the south tower "a cartoon display." >>

Several dozen of my co-workers on the upper floors of our building at the
oil refinery in Linden NJ witnessed UAL 175 plough into the South Tower
I remember my boss coming downstairs to my office and telling us what they
saw. Many of those who witnessed it are still too freaked out to talk about
what they saw.

Any chance can get 5 min with this cretin and my Louisville Slugger?

Personally, I don't understand what kind of psychological trauma there twoofers suffer from to even consider that what was seen by millions, hey, perhaps billions of people, was somehow fake or illusory. Not only is it crazy, it's downright insulting.

ETA: Oh, and welcome, Slim!

[realitybites]

As a relatively new "New Yorker", I invite Mr. Reynolds to make a trip to the city and share his views on what happened that day with all my friends and neighbors here. Maybe my current co-workers, who watched from 120 Broadway. Maybe a few of my friends who were at NYU at the time. My previous landlords in Carroll Gardens who had to sweep up dust and papers from the towers.... Run your ideas by them.

It's high time these people are held accountable for their words. Come to New York. Go to DC. Head out to Shanksville....

And tell all the people who witnessed these events as they happened... Tell them they're lying. The firefighters. The cops. The average New Yorker.

The truth is in your corner Mr. Reynolds?

.... Say it to their faces then.

[Jennie C.]

J.R. Dunn of the American Thinker lays a pretty good thwapping on James Fetzer of the Scholars here:

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5865

[jhunter1163]

J.R. Dunn of the American Thinker lays a pretty good thwapping on James Fetzer of the Scholars here:

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5865

Ooooooooooh, that's gonna leave a mark....

[Regnad Kcin]

J.R. Dunn of the American Thinker lays a pretty good thwapping on James Fetzer of the Scholars here:

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5865Whew! It made me tingle, that's for sure.

Fetzer done got Dunned!

[Belz...]

J.R. Dunn of the American Thinker lays a pretty good thwapping on James Fetzer of the Scholars here:

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5865

Ouch.

[T.A.M.]

>>He calls flight 175 hitting the south tower "a cartoon display." >>

Several dozen of my co-workers on the upper floors of our building at the
oil refinery in Linden NJ witnessed UAL 175 plough into the South Tower
I remember my boss coming downstairs to my office and telling us what they
saw. Many of those who witnessed it are still too freaked out to talk about
what they saw.

Any chance can get 5 min with this cretin and my Louisville Slugger?

njslim, welcome to the JREF Skeptics Forum on Conspiracy Theories.

This Morgan Reynolds guy is a complete idiot. I wish he would be the prime speaker for their movement, because then we'd be assured that the movement would stay in the dungeons of the internet.

He is a quack, and If I ever meet him, I will hit him metaphorically for you with a good tongue lashing of real evidence and sound facts.

TAM

[T.A.M.]

That article brought tears of joy to my eyes.

What I predicted 3 months ago has finally begun to occur. When i first came here I said that I would love for the "Truther" movement to get enough attention that the true intellectuals, the big guns, of this world would get wind of it. Well it seems fetzer truely did feed the intellectual bear, and got his head bit off as a result. I only hope more of the scholar putzes get louder, so more J.R. Dunns can bite their proverbial heads off.

J.R. Dunn is my new hero. Boohyah

TAM

[Pardalis]

This has already been posted earlier, but maybe some have missed it

M. Ronald Wieck also from American Thinker

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4732132614662229339&q=hardfire+9-11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7645426216687229050&q=hardfire+9-11

[Oliver]

Here's another one of the leaders of the "truth" movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQZT9Hzvt8&eurl=
Notice how he uses the phrases "we don't know" and "we don't understand."
So he seems to be saying that he can't make his case, but it makes more sense than what everyone saw.

This is the most stupid theory i´ve heard
so far. What´s it´s name? The looney toon
theory or the non-plane theory?

Still waiting for the guy who says, 9/11
never happened and it was just a commercial.

BTW: Did someone in here heard about LC-final
editions release date? Can´t wait to see what´s
left after all debunkings...

[T.A.M.]

Oliver, i do believe we are making a full fletched debunker out of you...It is amazing what happens when you use the thing between your ears, and I am glad you are doing so.

TAM

[Oliver]

Oliver, i do believe we are making a full fletched debunker out of you...It is amazing what happens when you use the thing between your ears, and I am glad you are doing so.

TAM

Could you translate "fletched", Tam?

[Pardalis]

Could you translate "fletched", Tam?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8886450f08fa5b252.png

Just kidding

[CptColumbo]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8886450f08fa5b252.png

Just kidding

My favorite alias was Elmer Fudd Gantry.

[LashL]

J.R. Dunn of the American Thinker lays a pretty good thwapping on James Fetzer of the Scholars here:

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5865

Smack!

[T.A.M.]

fledged...lol...sorry...my faux pas (got that right..lol).

TAM:D

I prefer TAM (all Caps) as I am a guy, and it isnt short for Tammy. Thanks.

The Artistic Macrophage :D

[Belz...]

Here's another one of the leaders of the "truth" movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQZT9Hzvt8&eurl=

Notice how he uses the phrases "we don't know" and "we don't understand."


Paraphrasing: "Well, we don't really know anything, but we're pretty sure it happened the way we think it did. Don't ask why, though."

That has to be the most w-stuffed sentence I ever made.

[CptColumbo]

The Artistic Macrophage :D

Well...that would have been my next guess.

[LashL]

This has already been posted earlier, but maybe some have missed it

M. Ronald Wieck also from American Thinker

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4732132614662229339&q=hardfire+9-11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7645426216687229050&q=hardfire+9-11

Thanks, Pardalis. I had missed those.

[T.A.M.]

Yes, well the full name was too long for the Username for the forum. When I blog, "The Artistic Macrophage" comes up.

It is a reflection of what I do professionally, but also my other, more "Artistic" side.

T.A.M.:)

[njslim]

>>As a relatively new "New Yorker", I invite Mr. Reynolds to make a trip to >>the city and share his views on what happened that day with all my >>friends and neighbors here. Maybe my current co-workers, who watched >>from 120 Broadway. Maybe a few of my friends who were at NYU at the >>time. My previous landlords in Carroll Gardens who had to sweep up dust >>and papers from the towers.... Run your ideas by them.

>>It's high time these people are held accountable for their words. Come to >>New York. Go to DC. Head out to Shanksville....

>>And tell all the people who witnessed these events as they happened... >>Tell them they're lying. The firefighters. The cops. The average New >>Yorker.

Maybe introduce this moonbat to my neighbor in the apartment across the
hall - her 2 sons worked at Cantor Fitzgerald in North Tower. Both died
that day ......

In this part of NJ almost every town lost someone, most people in this area
know of a person who was lost. Babbling moonbats of this type are not
welcome.

The truth is in your corner Mr. Reynolds?

.... Say it to their faces then.

[Class]

I'm from New Jersey as well and my town in particular lost 27 people (if I remember correctly). There was an article written about the Catholic church in my town on the front page of the Star Ledger because of all the funerals we were holding for 9/11 victims.

My brother's friend lost his father in the attack. His mother spoke at the dedication ceremony of a new memorial in my town dedicated to those killed on 9/11. Tell her and all the others who lost loved ones your views on 9/11.

[gumboot]

That article brought tears of joy to my eyes.

J.R. Dunn is my new hero. Boohyah

TAM


I found two things very interesting about this article...

Firstly, I was stunned by Fez's letter. It was pathetic. I'd expect arguments like that from the goons at the LC Forums. But from the leader of their movement? From a man with a PhD?

It was appalling. A joke. The number of factual errors are laughable. While I had previously considered the enjoyment of tangling with people like Fetzer and Jones, I previously thought it was a rather large undertaking. Not simply squabbling with some idiots.

I adjust that assessment. Tangling with people like them would be as easy as stealing candy from a very stupid baby.

Second major observation,

Dunn's rebuttal is pretty weak. Admittedly I haven't read his first one, but this second one is not great at all. I'd say there'd be at least a dozen (probably twice that or more) here on JREF who could put up a far better showing. Hell, I reckon I could have Fez for breakfast! And there are plenty of others that dwarf my knowledge.

Dunn himself uses very little specifics, and makes some pretty big factual errors of his own (the NORAD defense springs to mind).

I'm not that impressed, by either of them.

(Wow? Am I becoming a 9/11 expert? :D)

-Andrew

ETA. Dunn also fails to pick Fez up on some glaring errors - for example the JT8D reference and the "Boeings have Pratt and Whitney Engines" reference. The A-3 Skywarrior does not use the JT8D engine (uses 2x PW J57-P-10 turbojets), and AAL Boeing 757's use the Rolls Royce RB211 engine.

[Brainster]

Firstly, I was stunned by Fez's letter. It was pathetic. I'd expect arguments like that from the goons at the LC Forums. But from the leader of their movement? From a man with a PhD?

It was appalling. A joke. The number of factual errors are laughable. While I had previously considered the enjoyment of tangling with people like Fetzer and Jones, I previously thought it was a rather large undertaking. Not simply squabbling with some idiots.

I adjust that assessment. Tangling with people like them would be as easy as stealing candy from a very stupid baby.

Uncle Fetzer's indeed quite pathetic. He's Jason Bermas without Bermas' photographic memory (What was that other country Hitler invaded?). But don't discount his ability to argue/debate skillfully on his feet. He knows how to duck a (rhetorical) punch, and I'm sure he's got a list of dodges he can use for virtually any line of questioning. But the fact that he endorses just about every stupid theory in Loose Change certainly makes him an attractive target.

It's interesting to hear the "missile just before the plane" theory at the Pentagon. Phil Jayhan was right, he just had the wrong building. ;)

[T.A.M.]

I found two things very interesting about this article...

Firstly, I was stunned by Fez's letter. It was pathetic. I'd expect arguments like that from the goons at the LC Forums. But from the leader of their movement? From a man with a PhD?

It was appalling. A joke. The number of factual errors are laughable. While I had previously considered the enjoyment of tangling with people like Fetzer and Jones, I previously thought it was a rather large undertaking. Not simply squabbling with some idiots.

I adjust that assessment. Tangling with people like them would be as easy as stealing candy from a very stupid baby.

Agreed. Though I have seen Fetzer as the messenger all along. Everytime I have seen him speak he merely regurgitates the CT line.


Second major observation,

Dunn's rebuttal is pretty weak. Admittedly I haven't read his first one, but this second one is not great at all. I'd say there'd be at least a dozen (probably twice that or more) here on JREF who could put up a far better showing. Hell, I reckon I could have Fez for breakfast! And there are plenty of others that dwarf my knowledge.

Dunn himself uses very little specifics, and makes some pretty big factual errors of his own (the NORAD defense springs to mind).

I'm not that impressed, by either of them.

(Wow? Am I becoming a 9/11 expert? :D)

-Andrew

ETA. Dunn also fails to pick Fez up on some glaring errors - for example the JT8D reference and the "Boeings have Pratt and Whitney Engines" reference. The A-3 Skywarrior does not use the JT8D engine (uses 2x PW J57-P-10 turbojets), and AAL Boeing 757's use the Rolls Royce RB211 engine.

Yes even I picked up most of those. I would disagree with your assessment of Dunn though. He is not a 9/11 expert. He hasn't made this issue his mission as so many have here. he rebutted Fetzer with little time to prepare. I say give the man 2 weeks reading these threads....well then holy shaite. It was his skill at argumentation that i found so inspiring. Weak compared to lets say you, Mackey, Brainster, Gravy, and so many of the others here, yes, but c/w Fetzer...far from weak.

TAM

[Alareth]

Here's another one of the leaders of the "truth" movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQZT9Hzvt8&eurl=

Notice how he uses the phrases "we don't know" and "we don't understand."

So he seems to be saying that he can't make his case, but it makes more sense than what everyone saw.

A Professor of Economics!? My god, with that kind of expertise how can we doubt the findings of Scholars For Truth.

[T.A.M.]

Not sure if this has been looked at and torn down yet, but if anyone is interested, here is Griffins latest article, this one on the "Norad/FAA" tapes.

Griffin Article - NORAD/FAA Tapes (http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=2006091418303369)

enjoy

TAM

[JamesB]

Loose Change forum paranoid post of the day.

Damn Those Screw Loose Change A-holes, They're sneaky

I just noticed today that if you miss spell "loosechange911" in www.loosechange911.com in pretty much any way, you're redirected to the Screw Loose Change site. What a bunch of sneaky ********!

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14316

I tried a bunch of misspellings, but couldn't get it to work.

[T.A.M.]

Oh, and anyone want to answer this poor sods questions...he seems to think there is no proof of AA77, or Barbara Olson being on any flight that day...I had to post it, as it is so pathetic...


Posted by Nozebro - Mon Sep-18-06 07:15 PM at DU:
There's really _____ else TO see. If ANY kind of airplane had crashed at that site, there would be evidence of it in at least some of the many photos that have already been released.

The Pentagon/FL 77 lies are a much better key to understanding that 9/11 was an inside job. There's no proof of any such flight as AA 77 on 9/11, and if there had been such a flight on that day, there WOULD be official records of it. There's no proof of reservation/ticket/check-in of Mrs. Barbara Olson having been on an AA FL 77 on 9/11, we've seen photos of alleged "hijackers"
at Dulles that day, but not one photo allegedly showing Mrs. Olson there. Besides, NO airport, taxi driver, boarding agent, security agent or anyone else has ever said they saw Mrs. Olson at Dulles Airport on 911.

If Mrs. Olson had called her husband from ANY airplane on 9/11, where's the proof? Where is there one word from anyone at the U.S. Department of Justice saying they took a call from her and transferred it to her husband?

You don't have to get into an endless argument loop over whether or not the ludicrous claims about Hani Hanjours 270 degree turn are true, and you don't have to allow the OCT'ers to try and confuse the issue about the impossibility of an airliner flying a feet off the ground. Likewise, it's not necessary to get into arguments over whether the OCT Faith-Based Theory of whether confetti is a sufficient substitute for ACTUAL engineS, blood, luggage, seats, body parts, or any of the rest.

There is no need to "see" anything else from any other cameras at or near the Pentagon, to know that a large commercial airliner did NOT crash at the Pentagon on 9/11/01.

Likewise, there is no need to demand the impossible from the OCT'ers here. They cannot produce (credible) proof of something that didn't happen and it's futile to wish otherwise.

TAM

[T.A.M.]

Loose Change forum paranoid post of the day.

Damn Those Screw Loose Change A-holes, They're sneaky



http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14316

I tried a bunch of misspellings, but couldn't get it to work.

I tried "www.losechange911.com" and got sent to "online Video Clips"

www.looosechange911.com - sends me to a generic web site.

www.loosechenge911.com - ditto

www.loosechange910.com - address not found

Shall I try some more...lol

TAM

[JamesB]

It's interesting to hear the "missile just before the plane" theory at the Pentagon. Phil Jayhan was right, he just had the wrong building. ;)

That was from that radio interview with the guy who installed kitchen cabinets, who knew the CIA assassin named the mechanic, and believed every event connected to 9/11 occurred in the Denver Metropolitan area. For those of you new to this topic, no, I am not making that up.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/07/just-when-you-thought-it-couldnt-get.html

He also neglected to mention that this theory was started by my man Karl Schwarz!

[LashL]

Oh, and anyone want to answer this poor sods questions...he seems to think there is no proof of AA77, or Barbara Olson being on any flight that day...I had to post it, as it is so pathetic...


Posted by Nozebro - Mon Sep-18-06 07:15 PM at DU:


TAM

He clearly hasn't a brain, so explanation will be useless.

[LashL]

Just for fun, I googled "loose change forums" and the very first hit was...

Loose Change - JREF Forum
Loose Change Conspiracy Theories. ... Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, ... Just type in "Loose Change" if you hate your brain. ...
forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102 - 250k - Cached - Similar pages

[realitybites]

Oh, and anyone want to answer this poor sods questions...he seems to think there is no proof of AA77, or Barbara Olson being on any flight that day...I had to post it, as it is so pathetic...


Posted by Nozebro - Mon Sep-18-06 07:15 PM at DU:


TAM
These people are so far removed from the actual events of that day it's frightening. In their minds, unless it happened to them, it never happened. And it's not like they ask for proof to understand things better. They willingly disregard any evidence that doesn't conform to their preconceptions of the government....

This is the future of this country?

[gumboot]

Not sure if this has been looked at and torn down yet, but if anyone is interested, here is Griffins latest article, this one on the "Norad/FAA" tapes.

Griffin Article - NORAD/FAA Tapes (http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=2006091418303369)

enjoy

TAM


I got as far as his "Did the 9/11 Commission fake the NORAD tapes?" bit and stopped.

The guy is obsessively convinced of his own nefarious opinions. In other words he is full of BS.

As usual, with the NORAD 9/11 commission testimony inaccuracies issue, the CTers are reading WAY too much into it (are we surprised? They read too much into EVERYTHING).

Some of his assertations about the NORAD tapes are false as well - for example that NEADS weren't told about UA175, AA77 and UA93 until after they crashed - it was only UA93 that was reported post-crash.

His assertations that the original NORAD testimony left them open to charges of murder and treason is also completely false. The question is, if the commission and NORAD together fabricated the tapes, why the entire fiasco with the false testimonies anyway? What was the point? Why not come out with version 1 or version 2 and stick to it from day one?

Frankly I'm more willing to call the original NORAD testimony simply confusion. The commission thought there was intentional false testimony, but I am not convinced of this. Everyone ignores just how busy NEADS was on 9/11 - there were false hijacking alerts aplenty - 11 incidents in the first 90 minutes. After 9/11 NORAD was so over-stretched with Operation Noble Eagle that I suspect no one even listened to the original tapes - I suspect it took so long for the commission to get them because they had to be found first.

In short, when the NORAD staff went before the commission, I doubt they had heard the tapes, and I suspect the only information they had about 9/11 was after-action reports from NEADS. I would expect these to be rather confused.

The "Fog of War" is not a feature exclusive to foreign battlefields.

-Andrew

[Blackadder_no]

I tried "www.losechange911.com" and got sent to "online Video Clips"

www.looosechange911.com - sends me to a generic web site.

www.loosechenge911.com - ditto

www.loosechange910.com - address not found

Shall I try some more...lol

TAM

www.lousechange911.com (http://www.lousechange911.com) is apparently registered. Can't imagine why I thought of this particular misspelling though... :rolleyes:

[schplurg]

On one of these pages in one of these LC threads, I poked fun at those of you who still continue to "bang your heads against the wall" with these CT'ers. Well, I have returned to say that I have joined your ranks, though in the "real world" rather than on JREF ;)

A few weeks ago, the front page of our local "Metro" newspaper had conspiracy theory headlines plastered all over the front, including a photo of the collapsing towers.

Long story short, I ended up pointing a customer of mine toward "Gravy's Loose Change debunk" and the guy is now thoroughly convinced that the CT'ers are full of crap. He still wants to know about the lack of debris in PA, but other than that he's on our side.


Gravy:
He thought your work was outstanding and was utterly amazed at the amount of research and compiling you've done. He just couldn't say enough good things.

Nice work, and sorry I poked fun.

[Belz...]

Maybe introduce this moonbat to my neighbor in the apartment across the
hall - her 2 sons worked at Cantor Fitzgerald in North Tower. Both died
that day ......

Not to sound supportive of CTers, but although we keep repeating that, here, it really isn't an argument, except to show that, perhaps, anonymity gives those CTers more guts than they really have.

[Pardalis]

Not to sound supportive of CTers, but although we keep repeating that, here, it really isn't an argument, except to show that, perhaps, anonymity gives those CTers more guts than they really have.

Yeah, the perfect example is that bastard Killtown. He thinks anonymity gives him impunity to attack innocent people's reputation. :mad:

[Jennie C.]

I'm very sorry to keep going back to early in this thread, but I'm still reading through it. And if I wait and see if this was addressed before until I'm finished, trust me, I'll forget it. I have a good memory, but it's short.

This is from a very long post by Gravy, so I don't want to quote the whole thing. The particular post is at

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1636384&postcount=3750

Believe me, I'm on you Jref'ers sides. I am simply amazed at the gullibility and utter incoherence of these Loosers.

Gravy was refuting an email he'd received that was trying to debunk his debunking of LC (boy is THAT convoluted). The quote below is with regard to the "no plane" hit the Pentagon.


A 100 ton plane is gone, with very little debris, and very
> little other items are reported yet we are to believe that the 100 ton plane
> dissolves but bodies can be identified.


If it wasn't a plane, where do these people think the bodies came from? He's admitting to the bodies. They were stuffed inside the missile perhaps?? Seems to me that wouldn't leave much room for ordinance.

(of course, i'm still tittering inside about the hermetically sealed elevators. how could they open the doors against a hard vacuum?)

[Arus808]

If it wasn't a plane, where do these people think the bodies came from? He's admitting to the bodies. They were stuffed inside the missile perhaps?? Seems to me that wouldn't leave much room for ordinance.

(of course, i'm still tittering inside about the hermetically sealed elevators. how could they open the doors against a hard vacuum?)

the same interdimensional portal that also placed all those plane debris around; you know the ones he does have people in his video carrying away, yet he says just before that, that "hardly any debris" were found?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I'm very sorry to keep going back to early in this thread, but I'm still reading through it. And if I wait and see if this was addressed before until I'm finished, trust me, I'll forget it. I have a good memory, but it's short.

This is from a very long post by Gravy, so I don't want to quote the whole thing. The particular post is at

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1636384&postcount=3750

Believe me, I'm on you Jref'ers sides. I am simply amazed at the gullibility and utter incoherence of these Loosers.

Gravy was refuting an email he'd received that was trying to debunk his debunking of LC (boy is THAT convoluted). The quote below is with regard to the "no plane" hit the Pentagon.



If it wasn't a plane, where do these people think the bodies came from? He's admitting to the bodies. They were stuffed inside the missile perhaps?? Seems to me that wouldn't leave much room for ordinance.

(of course, i'm still tittering inside about the hermetically sealed elevators. how could they open the doors against a hard vacuum?)

The claims I have seen are twofold. One, the bodies are planted after the missle hit. Two, the only bodies found were from victims inside the Pentagon. No, they don't make sense.

[jon]

nah, it makes perfect sense. Rather than just have a plane flown into the Pentagon (LIHOP, MIHOP, whatever), They hijacked aa77, took it to a secret military base, cut the plane and passengers up into small pieces (no doubt They needed to use Their super- thermite to do this fast enough), and used Their new warp drive technology to plant this debris in the Pentagon before it was crawling with staff and investigators. They also captured and brainwashed a number of 'witnesses' who would later testify to having seen the plane. At around the same time, They fired a missile into the Pentagon.

See, makes perfect sense. I mean, if you don't believe that you're clearly a government shill...

[Jennie C.]

nah, it makes perfect sense. Rather than just have a plane flown into the Pentagon (LIHOP, MIHOP, whatever), They hijacked aa77, took it to a secret military base, cut the plane and passengers up into small pieces (no doubt They needed to use Their super- thermite to do this fast enough), and used Their new warp drive technology to plant this debris in the Pentagon before it was crawling with staff and investigators. They also captured and brainwashed a number of 'witnesses' who would later testify to having seen the plane. At around the same time, They fired a missile into the Pentagon.

See, makes perfect sense. I mean, if you don't believe that you're clearly a government shill...

Guess you're right. Still, it would've made me happier to be a guvmint 'Shell. But that was in another online life on another online service, formerly known as CompuServe.

[MarkyX]

You think after landing a job, I wouldn't have time to do stupid crap like this.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6373/zomglcwf6.jpg

[steve s]

He still wants to know about the lack of debris in PA, but other than that he's on our side.

Show him this photo (http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w941031.htm) which was a plane crash in Indiana in October 1994. Ask him where are the wings, the engines, the landing gear, the luggage, the seats, the passengers....

Steve S.

[Hutch]

You think after landing a job, I wouldn't have time to do stupid crap like this.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6373/zomglcwf6.jpg


markyX, couldn't open your image. But if it means you've got yourself a new (and hopefully good) job, then congratulations.

And you know better than most, this ain't stupid crap you're doing; lots of very smart people think very highly of what you are accomplishing.

Or at least one...;)

[MarkyX]

More stupid crap !

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5743/rapespyomgnb4.jpg

[Regnad Kcin]

Hee-hee!

[Pardalis]

Hee-hee!

Michael Jackson?

[MarkyX]

Finally, one last stupid thing.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/790/lolplutoov3.jpg

[Bell]

Mark, did you draw all three of those? Wow, those are great. Kuddos to you!

[MarkyX]

No.

I just photoshopped the dialog.

[Pardalis]

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6373/zomglcwf6.jpg

If this is really based on Dylan Avery, I must admit his butt cheeks are phenomenal, and I'm straight. :D

[Bell]

No.

I just photoshopped the dialog.

Ah? Yeah, I later noted with the first one. But you draw comics yourself, if I'm not mistaken?

[MarkyX]

Ah? Yeah, I later noted with the first one. But you draw comics yourself, if I'm not mistaken?

Nope, just the guy who tells the artist what the characters say and do.

Merely a writer.

[delphi_ote]

Finally, one last stupid thing.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/790/lolplutoov3.jpg
This is the real reason Pluto is no longer considered a planet, right?

[chipmunk stew]

This is the real reason Pluto is no longer considered a planet, right?
Get out of my [rule 8]ing solar system you [rule 8]ing kook!

[CurtC]

The new Pope is a Zionist!!!

Link to LC Forum thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14591)

Link to original article (http://joannafrancis.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/benedict-xvi-zionist-double-agent/)

But still, most Catholics are not ready to accept the reality that the man who is supposed to represent Christian morality to the world is actually a Zionist tool. He is eithier a Jew himself, or a Freemason, or he has compromised himself in some such way that he is being blackmailed.

[realitybites]

The new Pope is a Zionist!!!

Link to LC Forum thread (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14591)

Link to original article (http://joannafrancis.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/benedict-xvi-zionist-double-agent/)
Interesting.

I coulda' sworn there were reports of Catholics worried about his ties to Nazi Germany leading up to his selection as Pope.

[CurtC]

The Loosers don't seem to recognize the inherent contradiction between Nazis and Zionists. They throw around both terms at their opponents pretty indiscriminately.

[David Wong]

I just read round two of Fetzer vs. Dunn...

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5875

His rule of "silence equals agreement" should apply here. When you raise five points, and the other side picks out ONE they can counter, then it must meant they accept the other four and the discussion should advance from that point. No more burying it under new factoids.

I agree that the first part of this exchange was kind of weak on Dunn's side, but in this exchange it's beautiful the way he demonstrates perfectly how Fetzer just dances away from the "factoids" that get shot down and throws up new ones to replace them.

Dunn will have none of it. He forces every point to be addressed and calls attention to every point the other side runs away from. Every debate here should look like this.

[Regnad Kcin]

...It’s at points like this that you realize that the conspiracy impulse, the force that drives these people, cannot be countered by rational means. A conspiracy in which the whistleblower is killed is one thing. A conspiracy in which hundreds of others are killed, and the intended victim continues blithely on as if it had nothing at all to do with him…. There’s no rational explanation for that. And there’s no point in asking the Professor, the Colonel, or the staff of Portland Indymedia about it. They’ll just start telling you about a screw that was found on the sidewalk in front of the Pentagon, that was used only in a single model of the Stearman 43 Biplane, made in one particular plant in 1938, and that proves….Precisely.

[chipmunk stew]

The Loosers don't seem to recognize the inherent contradiction between Nazis and Zionists. They throw around both terms at their opponents pretty indiscriminately.
Look up the term "Zionazi".... I'm not kidding.

[LashL]

I just read round two of Fetzer vs. Dunn...

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5875

His rule of "silence equals agreement" should apply here. When you raise five points, and the other side picks out ONE they can counter, then it must meant they accept the other four and the discussion should advance from that point. No more burying it under new factoids.

I agree that the first part of this exchange was kind of weak on Dunn's side, but in this exchange it's beautiful the way he demonstrates perfectly how Fetzer just dances away from the "factoids" that get shot down and throws up new ones to replace them.

Dunn will have none of it. He forces every point to be addressed and calls attention to every point the other side runs away from. Every debate here should look like this.

Yes, this exchange was much better, and your point (and Dunn's) is an important one.

[T.A.M.]

MarkyX's Video "Screw Loose Change" was purposely removed by Google Video...Their explanation seems odd. Check out his thread on the same. Talk about censorship.

TAM

[realitybites]

I couldn't help but smile when I read this comment over on Conspiracy Smasher's site:

Naudets are a Psyop.

Naudets is an anagram of Duane St -- where their "film" was shot, which was staged, and does NOT show an airplane hitting WTC1.
Emphasis mine.

[dissonance]

Naudets is an anagram of Duane St -- where their "film" was shot,

Because we all know when you are planning a conspiracy, Rule #1 is to make sure you leave a trail of anagrams as clues.

[realitybites]

Because we all know when you are planning a conspiracy, Rule #1 is to make sure you leave a trail of anagrams as clues.
It also helps to outsource filming said faked attack to foreign film-makers.

For simplicities sake of course.

[T.A.M.]

Seems Paul Watson has decided to start smearing some of the Debunkers...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/220906debunksitself.htm

Not sure it is going to be pleasant to read.

TAM

EDIT: Seems the article is gone, but a stupid CTer was dumb enough to post the whole thing on CS so I will go get it, and post it here, with the above link as the original soruce.

TAM

[MarkyX]

Seems Paul Watson has decided to start smearing some of the Debunkers...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/220906debunksitself.htm

Not sure it is going to be pleasant to read.

TAM

You know they are hurting when they start personally attacking people now. Poor, mediocre, or great use of the English language does not invalidate one's claims.

The writer has made no evidence in the entire article as to whether or not "Pull it" is truly a controlled demolition term involving explosives. We have our evidence, from people in the demolition industry to the footage at "America Rebuilds" where they use cables to pull WTC 6.

They are afraid of us and it's showing.

EDIT: Speaking of which, PM does mention that no fire fighting was at WTC7. True, but the firemen were there, but they weren't fighting the fire due to warning signs the building was giving out of a possible collapse. You can read their statements in the New York Times listed on the Screw Loose Change video site.

EDIT: They also included my 9/11 Deniers Speak video...awww

[T.A.M.]

Debunking 9/11 Website Debunks Itself
Middle school grammar, contradictory arguments befit proponents of the official conspiracy theory

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | September 22 2006

A website which purports to disprove claims that there was government complicity in 9/11 and that the twin towers and Building 7 were demolished with explosives is riddled with errors, middle school grammar and arguments that both defy common sense and contradict one another.

Since the 9/11 truth movement's success in attracting an increasing crescendo of positive media attention, a backlash of websites and videos have sprung up that attempt to reinvigorate faith in the official conspiracy theory of the government fairy tale - a yarn that has about as much basis in reality as Humpty Dumpty.

The author of the Debunking 9/11 website refuses to reveal his or her identity but does admit to being part of the left gatekeeper crowd, confessing on the front page, "I am a flaming liberal and proud of it."

The website is littered with misspellings, inaccurate terms and middle school level grammar.

As writers we all make the occasional typo but when an entire website is cluttered with jerky and difficult statements it betrays a certain lack of intelligence on the part of the author.

For example, the term "conspiracy theorist," in the singular is used throughout the website in phrases such as, "In every major event there are coincidences, false, poor record keeping and unconfirmed news reports which make it to the public. Conspiracy theorist live for this."

The author seems unable to grasp the concept of the plural.

"Am I not publicly debating the issue? Why should a hall filled with conspiracy theorist clapping at every utterance from one of the "scholars" change the facts on this site?"

If a hall is filled one would presume the presence of more than one person.

Again, if I had found a few typos I would be nitpicking but if this individual can't even construct a basic sentence how can he or she be trusted to refute the scientific analysis of a career physics professor?

The author uses the buzzword of 9/11 official story conspiracy theorists in citing the "logical fallacies" allegedly associated with 9/11 skeptic's arguments and yet the website's Building 7 page betrays the biggest logical fallacy by completely contradicting itself.

The website first refutes claims that Larry Silverstein's "pull it" comment meant to demolish the building by quoting Silverstein's spokesman.

"In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building."

Having established that there were firefighters in Building 7 and that those firefighters had to be "pulled" from the building, the website concludes that,

"There is no doubt "Pull" means pull the fireman out." (Again note the serious case of plural amnesia).

And yet in the second paragraph of the page the author claims that, "Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above the them." (another error).

So if the Building was subject to "unfought fires" which were the sole cause of its collapse how could there have been any firemen to "pull" out of the building?

To repeat Silverstein's spokesman, "The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires."

Popular Mechanics, which is cited by the Debunking 9/11 website in its links section, also quotes NIST in saying "There was no firefighting in WTC 7."

Which is it to be? Firemen or no firemen? Pull or nothing to pull?

The contradiction proves one of two things - either Silverstein is lying about what his "pull it" comment meant or the so-called "unfought fires" which contributed to the building's collapse were actually being extinguished.



You can't have your cake and eat it.

The likelier scenario when one judges the length of time it took before Silverstein responded to the "pull it" controversy and an overview of firefighter's comments on the day strongly suggests that no firefighters ever entered WTC 7 - meaning Silverstein is lying about his 2002 comments on the PBS documentary.

The website seems to take unbridled joy in the threat to Professor Steven Jones' livelihood in the wake of his suspension, failing to mention that the suspension was preceded by a World Net Daily article that claimed Jones had called for the violent overthrow of the U.S. government - a completely bogus and libelous charge that World Net Daily later retracted after the writer Jonathon Moseley was unable to cite his source for such comments during an appearance on the Alex Jones Show.

In the links section, the website carries a You Tube video of Loose Change guru Dylan Avery's appearance on the Jack Blood Show. Mirroring other reactionary hit piece videos against the 9/11 truth movement, the clip slyly juxtaposes victim's family members looking solemn and images from beheading videos against Avery and Blood making dismissive remarks about the official story - implicating that trashing the official story is insulting to the victims. The contrast of the emotionally laden images of crying wives and children with Avery and Blood's light-hearted casual conversation is a trick to deceive the naive viewer into believing Avery and Blood are rude and unsympathetic to the tragedy of the event.

Even Avery's occasional use of the word "whatever" is portrayed as a sideswipe at the 9/11 dead.

As Avery and Blood discuss the incredulity of Arabs with box cutters being able to take on passengers and burly ex-military pilots, unconnected images of BBC articles about Britain's knife amnesty and how knife crime is rising are flashed.

This is all about emotional style over substance and is bluntly intended to characterize 9/11 skeptics as uncaring inhumane carpet baggers - without ever being able to address the evidence.

We urge our readers to comb through this website for themselves - it won't be long before you run across bizarre leftfield arguments (at one point the collapse of the twin towers is compared to two pool balls hitting each other), confounding statements that are an affront to the English language, and outright errors concerning the claims of the 9/11 truth movement.

We invite you to e mail the anonymous author of the website, maybe take pity on them and offer to buy them a dictionary.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/220906debunksitself.htm


Reference link was the one in my post above, but for some reason it isnt there.

TAM

[Bell]

Reference link was the one in my post above, but for some reason it isnt there.

TAM

If your main argument for attacking a person's article is poor spelling, what then do you have left to built a case? This is debunking in it's poorest form. Sorry, did I said debunking? I haven't seen any debunking at all. Let him come back with some proper counter arguments, or rather, evidence. Because I still haven't seen that coming from the deniers.

But, since this Paul Joseph Watson appearantly likes to comment with skills of a child, I'll return him that favor.


suxx0r! how old r u? liek 5 or som3tin ?!!

PWND!!!!1!!!one!

http://67.15.129.139/6014/152/emo/Crylol.gif

[CurtC]

Because we all know when you are planning a conspiracy, Rule #1 is to make sure you leave a trail of anagrams as clues.
[jim garrison]'cause everyone knows that's how the homosexuals operate.[/jim garrison]

[CurtC]

As writers we all make the occasional typo but when an entire website is cluttered with jerky and difficult statements it betrays a certain lack of intelligence on the part of the author.
Ed help him if he ever visits the LC Forum.

[T.A.M.]

The curious thing, is this is written by AJs right hand man. This guy is suppose to know his shaite, and be a front guy in their movement.

I am not sure if he was just bored, and decided to write this, or if he really is this juvenile. Doesn't say much for where their movement is headed...but we knew that anyway.

TAM

[negativ]

Because we all know when you are planning a conspiracy, Rule #1 is to make sure you leave a trail of anagrams as clues.

Of course. Now check out possible anagrams of "Loose Change:"

http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=loosechange

I haven't read the entire list, but

CASH EEL GOON
AH COLONS GEE
HA CLONE EGOS

sorta stand out.

[jhunter1163]

We already knew that the whole movement was circling the drain.. this is just an indication that it's picking up speed.

ETA: TAM, make sure post #1,000 is a doozy.

[jon]

Clearly, that article shows that Prison Planet believes that paragraphs containing more than one sentence are tools of repression and sentences should therefore be extended as much as possible until they become exceptionally hard to read (even commas should be avoided) and you cram in as many clauses as possible; yes I know it's juvenile to point this out but if you're going to criticise another writer largely on the grounds of their grammar then it would be advisable to double-check your own work too.

[bob_kark]

If the argument is solid, attack the grammar.
I think Sun Tzu said that in the Art of War somewhere...

[T.A.M.]

Well this is suppose to be my 1,000th post, so here it goes...

9/11 - Press for the Truth
-------------------------
I just finished watching this documentary. It is a 9/11 film that follows the pathes of the "Jersey Girls" as well as "independent researcher" Paul Thompson.

This film has been touted by almost all of the "9/11 Truth" movement as the "undebunkable" documentary for them, and that it is the ultimate film to represent their stance. Well if that is the case, than all I can say is that 90% of the people who claim to be a part of that "9/11 Truth" movement, are lying. Why do I say this. Not because the film is "debunkable", it maybe, but I do not have all the knowledge to debunk it myself. No, the reason I say they are lying is very simple. 90% of the people who we encounter at the various CT websites, the "Scholars" the "LTW Followers" the "Truth Trolls" push enormous amounts of conjecture, heresay, speculation, and downright wrong "evidence" that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the points made in this film. So any "truther" who says that this film is the best representation of what they "are about" is likely lying.

This movie does not, IN ANY WAY, make mention of, debate over, or even recognize, arguments concerning the "Controlled Demolition" or the "Missile into the Pentagon" or the "No Hijackers", or any of the hundreds of "Truth" conjectures/theories about 9/11. If you are about to watch the film expecting to find ANY of this in it, do not waste your time.

This film, I believe, is one of the more honest films, in terms of what really needs to be asked about 9/11. It begs questions on what role did "Pakistan" play in 9/11 funding. I do not claim to know, but I think that the american people are entitled to a well researched answer. It asks the questions concerning "What did the USG know about an impending attack on the US prior to 9/11" and I believe this is a question that should be answered. I believe, to a large degree, it has...if you know where to look for the info.

What this film does not do, is it does not implicate the USG in an "inside job", it does not say "Bush did it" it does not go into PNAC or any of the rediculous things we have been forced to debunk to keep the air clear in cyberspace.

I am still a full fledged debunker, don't get me wrong. I still believe the towers were brought down by Al-Qaeda Hijackers, in cohorts with OBL. I believe the Pentagon was hit by AA77, and I believe in the heroic efforts of the passengers of flight 93. What this film has done for me, is made me realize that the loons of the "truth" movement have distracted many of us from realizing that a part of their "movement" are legitimate people, with legitimate questions for their government. Now if the vast majority of their questions have been answered through the Commission report and all the other information out there, than fine, but if the victim families of the 9/11 attacks feel that the vast majority of their questions have gone unanswered, to their satisfaction, than I say they have a right to the answers.

My final thoughts are for those people that seek the "Truth" about 9/11, those that seek the "Real Truth". For those people I would say, clean your house. Get rid of all the useless junk scientists, the loony tunes, the wingnuts. Get rid of all the silly "theories" of "No Planes" and "Thermite", and "Cruise Missiles". Get rid of the LC lunatics. This, I know, would be a courageous thing to do, as the "Truth" movement owes alot of its publicity to their cockamame tall tales. Trust me though, in the end, if your cause is to win the hearts and minds of the american people, and reasonable people worldwide, you will have to keep the "Truth" house in order, and right now it is in such disarray, that it will only fade further, and further, until the world forgets there were even questions that have not been answered.

TAM