flouride in the water

[defaultdotxbe]

so heres the theory (i think) the govt is putting flouride in the water (and toothpaste?) in order to keep the general populace "calm" and "agreeable"

the story is the nazis did this in concentration camps as well, to keep the jews in line (apparently because barbed wire fences, armed guards, starvation and being worked to death werent quite enough)

any more thoughts?

[Katana]

I've heard so many conspiracy theories on fluoride. Honestly, I think it's a good thing (at safe levels). According to the American Dental Association, the fluoridation of water was the single most important factor in reducing dental decay in the 2nd half of the 20th century. In the first 30 years after water fluoridation became widely adopted, decay decreased by almost 70%.

I live in a state where well water is common which means that many people aren't exposed to fluoride. I have never seen such horrible teeth in all of my life, and I certainly have never seen so many people in their early 20s losing their teeth. I worked in Chicago's inner city, and the dentition among the residents, who were of a similar (if not lower) socioeconomic status, was seldom an issue. I realize that's anecdotal, but I, for one, think the hype about fluoride being harmful or some sort of conspiracy is silly.

[Almo]

Dr. Strangelove

[Terry]

I don't avoid the company of women, Mandrake. I do however deny them my essence.

[Meffy]

Too much fluoride can stain the enamel an ugly grayish color.

[Kopji]

Quite a few cities in Arizona do not fluoridate the water because of this very suspicion. I can attest that lack of fluoridation does not make people more agreeable, although I hear that coffee helps.

There is fluoride in the toothpaste, and dentists also have little purple pills they can prescribe. So maybe that helps calm things down.
Ack.

[UndercoverElephant]

I've heard so many conspiracy theories on fluoride. Honestly, I think it's a good thing (at safe levels). According to the American Dental Association, the fluoridation of water was the single most important factor in reducing dental decay in the 2nd half of the 20th century. In the first 30 years after water fluoridation became widely adopted, decay decreased by almost 70%.

I live in a state where well water is common which means that many people aren't exposed to fluoride. I have never seen such horrible teeth in all of my life, and I certainly have never seen so many people in their early 20s losing their teeth. I worked in Chicago's inner city, and the dentition among the residents, who were of a similar (if not lower) socioeconomic status, was seldom an issue. I realize that's anecdotal, but I, for one, think the hype about fluoride being harmful or some sort of conspiracy is silly.

Yeah, it's the aluminium you want to watch out for. Makes the water sparkly. And maybe causes Alzheimer's.....

[Katana]

Yeah, it's the aluminium you want to watch out for. Makes the water sparkly. And maybe causes Alzheimer's.....

You know what's another source of aluminum? Deodorant. I think it's specifically the ones that are antiperspirants in addition to just being a deodorant.

[defaultdotxbe]

does chewing beer cans cause alheimers?

[UndercoverElephant]

does chewing beer cans cause alheimers?

Only if they are made of aluminium. :)

[defaultdotxbe]

well then, that must be why i cant remember what happened at that party last weekend

[T.A.M.]

Next they'll tell us the Iodine in the salt we eat is to keep us attached to the feeding tube and keep us out of the rabbit hole...lol

[Elizabeth I]

My all-time favorite story comes from an extremely bitter election over fluoridation: I was listening to talk radio (it has high entertainment value) when a caller informed the announcer that this WAS all a plan to keep us docile: "You know what's ALREADY in the water? Chlorine! And you know what you get when you mix chlorine and fluoride[sic]? CHLOROFORM!"

[defaultdotxbe]

My all-time favorite story comes from an extremely bitter election over fluoridation: I was listening to talk radio (it has high entertainment value) when a caller informed the announcer that this WAS all a plan to keep us docile: "You know what's ALREADY in the water? Chlorine! And you know what you get when you mix chlorine and fluoride[sic]? CHLOROFORM!"
haha, proof that CTers have 0 knowledge of anything

[Oldpossum]

Actually, high levels of fluorine can have quite detrimental helth effects.
There is natually occuring high levels of fluorine in quite a few artesian bores in outback Australia, which make them unsafe to drink from long term.
If you do drink from them constantly, (like it's your only drinking water for months or years), you can get quite severe Flurodosis.
This is also why you are not supposed to swallow the fluoride mouth rince, you may be perscribed by your dentist, as the flourine only does good if it's in your teeth, not any other parts of the body.

I very much doubt the "Little Purple Pill" mentioned earlier is a fluorine supliment, as the fluorine will do you no good, in your stomach/bloodstream/bones; Again, it has to penetrate the enamel of the teeth, and the only way to do that is to expose the teeth directly to the fluorine source.
Fluorine in the blood will at best, only make it as far as the core pulp of the tooth, so will not help prevent tooth decay.

[kevin]

You know what's another source of aluminum? Deodorant. I think it's specifically the ones that are antiperspirants in addition to just being a deodorant.

Yep, however i'm not sure how much gets absorbed through the skin. I'm allergic to every deodorant i've ever tried (even hypoallogenic ones) so I guess I'm safe from this issue.

[kevin]

I very much doubt the "Little Purple Pill" mentioned earlier is a fluorine supliment, as the fluorine will do you no good, in your stomach/bloodstream/bones;

Not sure if it's the same thing, but I remember when I was a kid at the dentist (maybe at school, I forget) they gave you a pill but you weren't supposed to swallow it. You smeared it around on your teeth. The purple coloring was to make sure you got all the teeth covered.

This would've been in the early-mid 70's.

[defaultdotxbe]

i think those were just to make sure you brushed your teeth right (you could see where you didnt brush because they were still purple)

[kevin]

i think those were just to make sure you brushed your teeth right (you could see where you didnt brush because they were still purple)

Yeah, that was my second thought (probably why I remember it might have been in a classroom too). It was a long time ago....

[gtc]

Yep, however i'm not sure how much gets absorbed through the skin. I'm allergic to every deodorant i've ever tried (even hypoallogenic ones) so I guess I'm safe from this issue.

Most deodorants give me a rash too. Most deodarants/anti-perspirents have aluminium compounds as the active ingredient. It seems to me that all the ones with aluminium compounds give me a rash, so I avoid those ones.

The ones without aluminium compounds often don't work though.

Note, I don't know enough about the issues to conclude that I am allergic to aluminium in deodarants or why it might be the case. This is all just from personal experience.

[GimmePepsi]

Not sure if it's the same thing, but I remember when I was a kid at the dentist (maybe at school, I forget) they gave you a pill but you weren't supposed to swallow it. You smeared it around on your teeth. The purple coloring was to make sure you got all the teeth covered.

This would've been in the early-mid 70's.

Well, when I was a kid (in the 60's) our water came from a well, and so our dentist gave us pills that were chewable (and tasty!), and which my mother told us were fluoride. They were little and pink, and did not color the teeth.

[StewartP]

One CTer I talked to linked the fluoride in the water to the metallic strips in paper money. The fluoride kept us docile and the metallic strips controlled our actions. He believed the metallic strips were microchips.

It does mean tho that all the bottled water mfrs. Like Evian and Vittel mus be anti-govet, because by drinking bottled water you could break free from govt. control.
Unless the bottled water companies were also compromised and secretly added fluoride.

He was also a contrail blever.

[Mojo]

does chewing beer cans cause alheimers?Or vice versa?

[Yelper]

Dr. Strangelove

:)

...God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural... fluids.

Mr. President, we cannot allow a mineshaft gap!

;)

[Hellbound]

Just a couple points...

Deoderants/antiperspirants contain aluminum, but it has never been demonstrated that this is absorbed by the body in any amount that could in any concievable way be harmful.

The aluminum/Alzheiner's link is a Correlation/Causation fallacy. Elevated levels of aluminum have been found in the brains of Alzheimer's sufferers, but most research now indicates that this is an effect of the disease, not a cause.

[Johnny Pixels]

I've actually got myself into an argument over flouridation (nothing to do with this thread though) The claims are: 1) Flouridation is dangerous and causes bone cancer 2) It is a scam to get rid of toxic waste from industry, because they buy the chemicals from industry and use them to flouridate water

[shuize]

I've also been in arguments about floride. Not surprisingly, with a die-hard CTer. He's also strongly opposed to vaccinations and, I've since learned, believes just about every CT floating around on the web (moon landing hoaxed, JFK killed by the government, no real duty to pay taxes, most people in prison are actually innocent, etc... In fact, so far, I've only been able to find one CT that he doesn't buy into -- The one involving the Lizzard People -- What's that guy's name?) He was my introduction into the wacky world of CT. Ironically, of all his CTs, this was the first one I ran across. But there are many parallels in the way he approaches all of them. Summarized, the floride discussion went about like this:

CTer: Floride in the water is a massive plot by the corporations (Oh yeah, he hates them too).

Me: How's that?

CTer: Well they sell it, don't they?

Me: I thought the idea was to help prevent cavities.

CTer: That's only what they (meaning the evil government) want you to believe.

Me: What do dentists have to say about it.

CTer: What do you think they say?

Me: That it helps prevents cavities?

CTer: Well, naturally they're in on it.

Me: Every dentist in the country?

CTer: (Looking at me like I'm very naive) How do you think they get their licenses?

Me: By graduating dental school and passing their boards?

CTer: (Rolling his eyes) Yeah, right.

-- I have to admit, at first, I was very confused by this. But, as I mentioned, I later learned about all the other CTs he believes and, hearing the similarities in his thinking about those, I'm not surprised by his unwillingness to accept anything the American Dental Association has to say on the matter.

Now I do my best to avoid talking to him on any subject which might lead to a discussion about a CT ... which means basically everything. As Maddox said about 9/11 CT, listening to it makes me feel like I've been "bukkaked with stupid."

[mommyrex]

Our well water has natural fluoride, at approximately the levels municipalities supplement to. My kids drink this water. A lot of it. It does not make them "calm" and "agreeable". Now, my kids may be exceptions to the rule, there may be some unknown unknown agent in our water that cancels out the effect, or the government may be spiking its fluoride with something that actually has an effect. Did I miss any possibilities? Oh, yeah. Or the conspiracy theory could be bunk.

Incidentally, my MIL's water (2 miles away) has too much fluoride -- not enough to cause acute illness, but certainly enough to cause dental fluorosis in children. Her kids didn't seem to get cavities as children, but a couple of them did get discoloration of the their teeth (they didn't know the fluoride levels then).

I have a suspicion that the chemical composition of the well water around here is related to gall bladder trouble, but I lack the data to confirm that (and I lack the ambition to gather the data).

[Axiom_Blade]

In fact, so far, I've only been able to find one CT that he doesn't buy into -- The one involving the Lizzard People -- What's that guy's name?)

That would be our Lord and savior, David Icke! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_icke)

Here's the best article I've read on fluoridation: Why Fluoridation is Important. (http://quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/fluoride.html)

I don't see why they should add stuff to water that doesn't absolutely need to be there (such as chlorine). Just put more fluoride in the toothpaste, instead of in the water. It's your responsibility to keep your teeth clean. If you forget to brush, it's your own fault. Why don't they put vitamins in the water, too?

On the other hand, spending time to fight, or even just to argue about this, is silly because it is so insignificant. Kind of like the White Supremacists and the "kosher tax."

[shuize]

That would be our Lord and savior, David Icke! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_icke)

Icke. Right. How could I have ever forget?

It's funny. After reading that wikipedia article on Icke, the similarities between him and my anti-floride CTer, who seems to believe every single CT other than Icke, are striking. If ever forced to deal with him on CT again, I may have to confront him with all the similarities in their world views.

[CurtC]

Yep, however i'm not sure how much gets absorbed through the skin. I'm allergic to every deodorant i've ever tried (even hypoallogenic ones) so I guess I'm safe from this issue.

I don't think your reaction to antiperspirants is an allergy, it's just that they irritate your skin. My understanding is that you can be allergic only to proteins, not non-organic salts.

That being said, antiperspirants also irritate my skin something fierce. Standard deodorants do nothing but add a little perfume to however I smell.

Several years ago (more than ten), I switched to those "crystal" deodorants. It's a big hunk of what looks like rock salt - you wet it and smear it around your underarms. A single crystal lasts about two years of doing this every day (as long as you don't drop it, 'cause they shatter). They reportedly work by making your skin inhospitable to the bacteria that cause the odor. They work very well for me, but I have to re-apply if I'm going out in the evening. They even completely solved an odor problem I was having with a medical boot a few years ago. After four or five days, it started to stink, so I used the crystal, and went the rest of the six weeks with no odor at all.

The only problem is that stores generally sell them in the "health food" section. I generally get my wife to buy them for me, but if I need to I'll try to get in and out of that section of the store before anyone sees me.

[gtc]

I don't think your reaction to antiperspirants is an allergy, it's just that they irritate your skin. My understanding is that you can be allergic only to proteins, not non-organic salts.

That being said, antiperspirants also irritate my skin something fierce. Standard deodorants do nothing but add a little perfume to however I smell.

Several years ago (more than ten), I switched to those "crystal" deodorants. It's a big hunk of what looks like rock salt - you wet it and smear it around your underarms. A single crystal lasts about two years of doing this every day (as long as you don't drop it, 'cause they shatter). They reportedly work by making your skin inhospitable to the bacteria that cause the odor. They work very well for me, but I have to re-apply if I'm going out in the evening. They even completely solved an odor problem I was having with a medical boot a few years ago. After four or five days, it started to stink, so I used the crystal, and went the rest of the six weeks with no odor at all.

The only problem is that stores generally sell them in the "health food" section. I generally get my wife to buy them for me, but if I need to I'll try to get in and out of that section of the store before anyone sees me.

Odd, I bought one of those and within two days it started smelling like my arm pits (even though I only ever used it after showering).

I tend now to use antibacterial face washes (brand names Phisohex and Sapoderm in Australia). I also found Sanex deoderant to work well.

[Dazed]

I've read that the only benefits of fluoride are topical, and that when ingested it is actually toxic.

Also, bottled water companies do add fluoride, only the most expensive ones have 0ppm. I've actually seen one (nestle I think) that said on the label 'flouride added for you health!'

[defaultdotxbe]

I've read that the only benefits of fluoride are topical, and that when ingested it is actually toxic.
i think the idea is that its only toxic in large amounts, and that the benefits are topical (as you drink it goes over your teeth i guess, interesting point of debate would be if this contact is long enough to have an beneficial effects)

[Dazed]

Another interesting point of debate is whether 1 ppm in the water would have any demonstrable neurological effects over the course of decades.

[gtc]

I've read that the only benefits of fluoride are topical, and that when ingested it is actually toxic.

Also, bottled water companies do add fluoride, only the most expensive ones have 0ppm. I've actually seen one (nestle I think) that said on the label 'flouride added for you health!'

Really?

My favourite bottled water (Mt Franklin - claims to be Australia's most popular and is made by Coke) says they don't add anything.

I also like to drink one which is actually distilled and this article (http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=104793&catId=100286&tid=100008&p=1&title=Bottled+water) says that bottled waters can be bad for children's health because they don't contain Flouride.

[CurtC]

I've read that the only benefits of fluoride are topical, and that when ingested it is actually toxic.
Yes, it's toxic. So is chlorine that's added to the water at about the same concentration (1 ppm). I wouldn't want to drink water from a supply system that didn't add chlorine.

There's an old saying that applies here: "the dose makes the poison." Pretty much everything is toxic if the dose is large enough.

[MortFurd]

I wouldn't want to drink water from a supply system that didn't add chlorine.
Then don't come to Germany, and don't drink bottled water.

Most Germans will not drink tap water because they are afraid of catching some bug from it. They are also dead set against chlorinating the water supply, although a good bit of the water here comes from rivers where the treated sewage water gets dumped.

Most of them figure that the bottled water is cleaner, since it usually says it is "spring water" or "well water" in the name - then you look at the label and read the fine print and it turns out to be from the municipal water supply from wherever and has its carbonation added in the bottling plant.

[Hellbound]

There's an old saying that applies here: "the dose makes the poison." Pretty much everything is toxic if the dose is large enough.

Yep, even water. I've seen a case of "water poisoning" first-hand.

[Matthew Best]

Leah Betts was one such case, I believe.