Anthrax - Mailing conspiracy

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Putting this here, as I can't recall it ever being solved, so it qualifies as a conspiracy.

What ever ended up with the post-9/11 anthrax letters? I seem to recall them narrowing down where it could have been produced, but then it fell of the news radar.

[DavidJames]

Putting this here, as I can't recall it ever being solved, so it qualifies as a conspiracy.

What ever ended up with the post-9/11 anthrax letters? I seem to recall them narrowing down where it could have been produced, but then it fell of the news radar.
One CT I read said the letters were mailed to those that were not going to vote for the Patriot Act.

I never took the time to look into it.

[bob_kark]

One CT I read said the letters were mailed to those that were not going to vote for the Patriot Act.

I never took the time to look into it.
That'll teach Dan Rather a lesson about not running for congress and voting for the Patriot Act.

[Dazed]

As I recall, all the anthrax was traced to a US military base, and then the investigation, and the story, was dropped and not mentioned in the mainstream since.

"They all came from the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), Fort Detrick, Maryland."

[DavidJames]

That'll teach Dan Rather a lesson about not running for congress and voting for the Patriot Act.Excuse me, but the introduction of facts to a CT is strictly forbidden :D

[bob_kark]

As I recall, all the anthrax was traced to a US military base, and then the investigation, and the story, was dropped and not mentioned in the mainstream since.

"They all came from the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), Fort Detrick, Maryland."
You wouldn't happen to have a source for this would you?

[Dazed]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/28/national/main513694.shtml

[DavidJames]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/28/national/main513694.shtml
In that link, I did not find this quote...They all came from the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), Fort Detrick, Maryland

But I did find this quote...Charles Dasey, a post spokesman, said the theory that the anthrax came from Fort Detrick was "just more speculation."

[Dazed]

Its the speculation of the FBI.

[Dazed]

Here's an interesting one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/1873368.stm

[bob_kark]

Its the speculation of the FBI.
That's a very misleading statement. One of their theories was that the Anthrax was smuggled out of Fort Derrick.

Two FBI agents explored the smuggling theory during a three-hour interview Wednesday with Luann Battersby, a microbiologist who worked at the lab at Fort Detrick for eight years, Battersby said. The smuggling theory was first reported Thursday by The Hartford Courant.

Battersby, who left the Army Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick voluntarily in 1998, said the agents asked her, "if I wanted to grow something I wasn't supposed to, would there be somebody asking me about it and could I have taken it out of the lab? I told them no one checked, and it was far easier to get something out of Fort Detrick than into it."

While speculating how a terrorist might have obtained anthrax as virulent and finely milled as that used in the mailings that killed five people, "We came to the conclusion the source is really important," Battersby said. "It really is difficult to develop an organism from one you haven't cultured."
(My bolding.)

[bob_kark]

Here's an interesting one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/1873368.stm
Yes, unbridled speculation is interesting.

[gtc]

Its the speculation of the FBI.

Just because the FBI speculates about something does not make it true and just because they drop that line of inquiry does not mean that it was covered up.

I would imagine that they speculated about any number of mutually exclusive possibilities and then discarded the lines of inquiry for which there was no evidence.

[manofthesea]

Putting this here, as I can't recall it ever being solved, so it qualifies as a conspiracy.

What ever ended up with the post-9/11 anthrax letters?
.

Same question. Is there a timeline of events associated with this CT?
Such as, who was diagnosed with anthrax?
Where was it contracted? And when.
Were the letters mailed on or before the 11th?
Were teh letters identical in composition? Were the stamps identical?
(Isn't that stuff written in the letters the same as on the banners we see people waving on tv?)
Basic evidence like that. Then I'm fairly confident that I can produce a pretty good (CT) suspect. Not that I haven't already.

[Oliver]

According to the FBI Website, the Anthrax Case is still
under investigation - whatever this means:

http://www.fbi.gov/anthrax/amerithraxlinks.htm

ETA:

http://www.fbi.gov/anthrax/amerithrax_factsheet.htm (September 2006)

What is the status of the investigation?
This is a pending investigation and a top priority for the FBI.
The FBI has devoted hundreds of thousands of agent-hours to the case and conducted thousands of interviews. Eight panels of scientific experts have been convened to develop a comprehensive analytical scheme for evaluating and analyzing the anthrax evidence. As a result, valuable relationships have been forged in the scientific and public health communities, greatly increasing the government's ability to deal with biochemical threats in the future.

Is this a cold case?
This is an active case and the effort to solve it has in no way been slowed.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

I'm willing to bet, and this is pure speculation, that it was a disturbed individual who had access to smuggle anthrax out of the base (but not nec. a person involved with working with anthrax) and probably saw a sick and demented chance to cause harm.

Who knows, maybe he's the next Unabomber who will make a few more "attacks" in the next 20 years.

Or he got hit by a bus a month or two after the attacks and will never be heard from again.

[ZENSMACK89]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A49717-2003Sep9?language=printer

The Pursuit of Steven Hatfill

By Marilyn W. Thompson
Sunday, September 14, 2003; Page W06

[Norseman]

The latest major public development in this case was in September last year when Douglas Beecher of the FBI wrote an article in Applied and Environmental Microbiology (http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/72/8/5304). The article describes the technics the FBI used to identify a anthrax loaded letter among 642 bags of congressional mail. But just as important the article also discussed the nature of the anthrax spores:
... a widely circulated misconception is that the spores were produced using additives and sophisticated engineering supposedly akin to military weapon production. belief that the spores were weaponized.


Washington Post ran an article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/24/AR2006092401014_pf.html) that elaborated on Beecher's article:
But the more the FBI investigated, the more ubiquitous the Ames strain seemed, appearing in labs around the world including nations of the former Soviet Union.

As the case now stands, the spores could have been grown and purified in any descent laboratory around the world. But most likely by somebody in the area of New Jersey with a disturbed agenda.

Here are some more comments based on Beecher's article:
Anthrax for the Memories THE WASHINGTON POST'S "ROWBACK." (http://www.slate.com/id/2150359/)
Low-tech anthrax still deadly? FBI research widens suspect list (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/29/fbi_anthrax_attacks/)
http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/10/some_lessons_learned_from_the.php

[Norseman]

For those of you who want to really look in to all the details of the case, it could be worthwhile to take a look at Ed Lakes website:
http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/

He looks like the 2001 Anthrax Attack's answer to Mark Roberts. Don't be put off by the somewhat messy appearance of his website. He is also debunking all the wild claims about the case, both those put forward by mainstream media and those made by CT'ers.

Since this still is an open case he has his own ideas about the motive and the profile of the attacker based on the available information. In short a disturbed scientist or two wanting to waken USA to the possibility of biological terrorism, but not necessarily wanting to kill anybody. Looks like a reasonable assessment to me. And close to the FBI profile (http://www.fbi.gov/anthrax/amerithrax.htm) of the attacker:

[PhantomWolf]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A49717-2003Sep9?language=printer

The Pursuit of Steven Hatfill

By Marilyn W. Thompson
Sunday, September 14, 2003; Page W06

For those of you who want to really look in to all the details of the case, it could be worthwhile to take a look at Ed Lakes website:
http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/

Not that Zen would bother listening, but interesting that Ed's very first comment is:

1. Dr. Steven Jay Hatfill is innocent of any connection to the anthrax attacks, and his life was ruined by a band of politically-motivated conspiracy theorists who conned the media, the public and government officials into forcing the FBI to publicly investigate him. Links:

http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/campaign.html
http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/clueless.html#hatfill
http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/Update-History2005.html#051120

[Alt+F4]

For those of you who want to really look in to all the details of the case, it could be worthwhile to take a look at Ed Lakes website:

He does have some interesting information but his belief that a first grader wrote the notes is a bit wacky.

[ZENSMACK89]

Not that Zen would bother listening, but interesting that Ed's very first comment is:
Ed Lakes is a wannabe screenwriter...

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/sleuthwithoutbadge.html

Sleuth Without a Badge

Retiree Ed Lake has become obsessed with the anthrax case -- and he has a theory about who did it

BY WENDY COLE/RACINE

Ed lake is not a cop. He has no formal training in forensics or any other aspect of law enforcement. But in the past year he has made it his business to master the intricacies of handwriting analysis, envelope technology and the schedule of U.S. mail pickups in and around Princeton, N.J. He can tell you all about cross-contamination, the common misspellings of penicillin and the "pharmaceutical fold" used by chemists for centuries to dispense medicines -- and by person or persons unknown to wrap scrawled terror messages around a few billion spores of surprisingly pure anthrax.

Lake, 65, a retired computer specialist, was planning to spend this year writing his seventh screenplay (sci-fi, time travel), convinced that this one would be good enough to get produced. Instead he has become obsessed with the hunt for the anthrax killer.

[PhantomWolf]

Ed Lakes is a wannabe screenwriter...

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/sleuthwithoutbadge.html

Sleuth Without a Badge

Retiree Ed Lake has become obsessed with the anthrax case -- and he has a theory about who did it

BY WENDY COLE/RACINE

Ed lake is not a cop. He has no formal training in forensics or any other aspect of law enforcement. But in the past year he has made it his business to master the intricacies of handwriting analysis, envelope technology and the schedule of U.S. mail pickups in and around Princeton, N.J. He can tell you all about cross-contamination, the common misspellings of penicillin and the "pharmaceutical fold" used by chemists for centuries to dispense medicines -- and by person or persons unknown to wrap scrawled terror messages around a few billion spores of surprisingly pure anthrax.

Lake, 65, a retired computer specialist, was planning to spend this year writing his seventh screenplay (sci-fi, time travel), convinced that this one would be good enough to get produced. Instead he has become obsessed with the hunt for the anthrax killer.

So what do the cops say?

Dozens of theories as to who was responsible have appeared in the media since last fall, mostly relying on information from non-FBI sources. FBI insiders, however, say no published account has correctly disclosed the investigation's leading hypotheses.

Doesn't seem they think that the media's speculation is right either. How about the person pushing the Hatfill senario, Dr Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, is she a cop? Opps, no, she's someone with a major beef against Hatfill because of his stance on the The Biological and Toxic Weapons Convention. Funny how ever single "lead" on Hatfill manages to find it's way back to a single person, Rosenberg. Funny how that all fall apart under investigation too:

1. Claim - he worked with anthrax. Fact - There's no record that he ever worked with anthrax. He worked with viruses, not germs like anthrax.

2. Claim - he had unfettered access to a lab where anthrax was made. Fact - He didn’t.

3. Claim - he had booster shots to prevent getting anthrax at the time of the anthrax mailings. Fact - He didn’t.

4. Claim- he took some obsolete biological cabinets to make anthrax. Fact - The nonfunctional cabinets were used in military training exercises and then destroyed.

5. Claim - He once lived near a "Greendale School". Fact - There is no Greendale School in the African community of Greendale near where he once lived.

6. Claim - he’s a Nazi who "joined" the Rhodesian SAS. Fact - his resume says he was still in the U.S. Army when he was with the Rhodesian SAS, so he was apparently acting as an observer for those anti-communist forces.

7. Claim - Dr. Hatfill lost his security clearance over something that happened at USAMRIID. Fact - He didn’t need a security clearance for his work at USAMRIID. He applied for a higher-level clearance to work with the CIA, and he lost his clearance because the polygraph examiner didn’t like Dr. Hatfill’s answers to some questions about his work in Africa.

8. Claim - Hatfill had an "isolated residence" - often described as a "remote cabin" - which may be a safe house operated by "American Intelligence". Fact - In reality, it’s an apartment in a 3 story building and rented by a friend, at which Dr. Hatfill occasionally attended parties.

9. Claim - bloodhounds sniffed the anthrax letters and matched the scent to Dr. Hatfill. Fact - It's scientific absurdity to claim that it is possible to get a scent of letters sent through the mail, handled by multiple people and decontaiminated and soaked.

10. Claim - he was around locations at times when suspicious events occurred, from hoax letters sent from England, to the anthrax outbreak in Rhodesia in the 1980s to the outbreak of the West Nile Virus in Louisiana in 2002. Fact - There is no supporting proof of any of these claims.


Face it Zen, your pitiful house of cards is crumbling around you along with your total delusion about Hatfill and Jerome Hauer

[ZENSMACK89]

So what do the cops say?



Doesn't seem they think that the media's speculation is right either. How about the person pushing the Hatfill senario, Dr Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, is she a cop? Opps, no, she's someone with a major beef against Hatfill because of his stance on the The Biological and Toxic Weapons Convention. Funny how ever single "lead" on Hatfill manages to find it's way back to a single person, Rosenberg. Funny how that all fall apart under investigation too:

1. Claim - he worked with anthrax. Fact - There's no record that he ever worked with anthrax. He worked with viruses, not germs like anthrax.

2. Claim - he had unfettered access to a lab where anthrax was made. Fact - He didn’t.

3. Claim - he had booster shots to prevent getting anthrax at the time of the anthrax mailings. Fact - He didn’t.

4. Claim- he took some obsolete biological cabinets to make anthrax. Fact - The nonfunctional cabinets were used in military training exercises and then destroyed.

5. Claim - He once lived near a "Greendale School". Fact - There is no Greendale School in the African community of Greendale near where he once lived.

6. Claim - he’s a Nazi who "joined" the Rhodesian SAS. Fact - his resume says he was still in the U.S. Army when he was with the Rhodesian SAS, so he was apparently acting as an observer for those anti-communist forces.

7. Claim - Dr. Hatfill lost his security clearance over something that happened at USAMRIID. Fact - He didn’t need a security clearance for his work at USAMRIID. He applied for a higher-level clearance to work with the CIA, and he lost his clearance because the polygraph examiner didn’t like Dr. Hatfill’s answers to some questions about his work in Africa.

8. Claim - Hatfill had an "isolated residence" - often described as a "remote cabin" - which may be a safe house operated by "American Intelligence". Fact - In reality, it’s an apartment in a 3 story building and rented by a friend, at which Dr. Hatfill occasionally attended parties.

9. Claim - bloodhounds sniffed the anthrax letters and matched the scent to Dr. Hatfill. Fact - It's scientific absurdity to claim that it is possible to get a scent of letters sent through the mail, handled by multiple people and decontaiminated and soaked.

10. Claim - he was around locations at times when suspicious events occurred, from hoax letters sent from England, to the anthrax outbreak in Rhodesia in the 1980s to the outbreak of the West Nile Virus in Louisiana in 2002. Fact - There is no supporting proof of any of these claims.


Face it Zen, your pitiful house of cards is crumbling around you along with your total delusion about Hatfill and Jerome Hauer
Oh I need to own you on this again? Some fools never learn. Remember when you tried to tell me Kroll didn't do security at the WTC and I had to rub your little nose in the facts? How did they smell did you forget? Here you go again...

Stephen Hatfill, at one time considered a prime suspect in this still-unsolved case, had worked for USAMRIID at Fort Detrick. Strangely, perhaps, he had also worked with Jerome Hauer, for Scientific Applications International Corporation, at the Center for Counterterrorism Technology and Analysis.

On September 11, 2001, Jerome Hauer advised the White House to begin taking Cipro, an antibiotic which is effective against anthrax.

Jerome Hauer, the former head of HHS's [Health and Human Services] biodefense program, is now on the Board of Emergent Biosolutions, Bioport's parent company. Bioport is an extremely controversial pharmaceutical company that manufactures a despicable anthrax vaccine linked to deaths and injuries in the U.S. military.

Cause of anthrax vaccine worker's death debated
Pentagon won't stop military vaccinations

CNN Archives
September 29, 2000
Web posted at: 7:21 a.m
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Pentagon said Thursday it would not suspend anthrax inoculations of military personnel despite the death of a worker at BioPort, the troubled company that is the nation's sole producer of the vaccine against anthrax, a deadly biological weapon.

Scientists' deaths are under the microscope
globeandmail.com
By ALANNA MITCHELL, SIMON COOPER AND CAROLYN ABRAHAM
COMPILED BY ALANNA MITCHELL
Saturday, May 4, 2002
It's a tale only the best conspiracy theorist could dream up.
Eleven microbiologists mysteriously dead over the span of just five months. Some of them world leaders in developing weapons-grade biological plagues. Others the best in figuring out how to stop millions from dying because of biological weapons. Still others, experts in the theory of bioterrorism.

Cities fret over how to quickly deliver vaccines
By Mimi Hall
USA TODAY
July 31, 2005
Jerome Hauer, who developed the nation's first bioterrorism plan, for New York City in the late 1990s, is critical of the federal government's efforts on bioterrorism preparedness. He says cities aren't getting enough guidance from Washington.

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
The New York Times
September 18, 2006 Monday
But Emergent officials capitalized on VaxGen's stumble. They had already gotten health agency officials to agree to buy five million doses of their vaccine to add to the stockpile. Now they began pushing for a much larger deal, possibly replacing VaxGen's vaccine altogether, company documents show. To lead its lobbying effort, which has cost more than $1 million since 2005, Emergent turned to Jerome M. Hauer, a top official at the health department until late 2003. While at the agency, he supported the push for a new vaccine. Now he was trying to persuade Congress and his former employer to buy the old vaccine.

Onetime Giuliani Insider Is Now a Critic
NYT
Russ Buettner
May 22, 2007
In recent days, Mr. Hauer has challenged Mr. Giuliani’s recollection that he had little role as mayor in placing the city’s emergency command center at the ill-fated World Trade Center.

BioPort now Emergent
Aug 15th 2007
Website
http://investors.emergentbiosolution...-emergentboard
Jerome Hauer Director
We manufacture BioThrax® (Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed) at our facilities in Lansing, Michigan using well-established vaccine manufacturing procedures. In Lansing, MI…


http://nymegaphone.com/node/24
Issue 6
Spitzer's Real Scandal
The Anthrax Connection
Eliot Spitzer’s connection to key 9/11 players extends to fellow life-long Democrat, Jerome Hauer, managing director of Kroll on 9/11. Only Jerome Hauer and his former boss, Rudolph Giuliani, were indicted by the San Diego Citizens Grand Jury.
According to Bay Area News (a San Francisco-bay based publication) and Wikipedia, Jerome Hauer warned the Bush White House to go on Cipro, the anti-anthrax drug, on 9/11/01. Hauer denied this allegation to The Megaphone. The White House did go on Cipro. Six days later, the anthrax attacks started, and sent the country back into paroxysms of terror.

Government watchdog group Judicial Watch demanded to know who warned the Bush White House, but not the public, about anthrax. The White House stonewalled their Freedom of Information Act requests.

“I read that the White House did know, and they went on the anti-biotics,” says Judicial Watch founder Larry Klayman. He got involved because, “African American employees at Brentwood [US Postal Facility] were basically left out there to twist in the wind when the white guys up on Capitol Hill got immediate treatment.”
Post-9/11, Jerome Hauer went on to be Coordinator of the National Institute of Health's investigation of anthrax deaths. His report blamed Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. That assertion has been widely discredited, since the five deaths in 2001 were from a fine, “weaponized” form of anthrax, the “Ames Strain” that only the U.S. military and U.S. federal government possessed.

On 9/11, Jerome Hauer appeared on television with Dan Rather. Rather posited that the 9/11 attacks must have had state sponsorship. Hauer urged Rather to blame Bin Laden only. When Rather voiced suspicions about the way the buildings fell, Hauer offered that they simply came down because they were hit by a plane. Without an investigation, Hauer somehow knew two major parts of 9/11’s official story before it emerged.
Hauer is biological terrorism expert whose resume includes time at Science Applications International Corp (SAIC), a military contractor doing work in nuclear issues and psy-ops, and Bioport, manufacturer of the controversial anthrax vaccine.

Jerry Hauer and anthrax go way back. In May of 1998, he spoke at the Council on Foreign Relations on the topic of "Building a 'Biobomb': Terrorist Challenge." That evening Hauer co-presented on the topic Steven Hatfill. Yes, that Steven Hatfill, the one who later became the FBI’s prime suspect in the anthrax mailings. A year after their CFR presentations, Hatfill and Hauer would become coworkers at SAIC's Center for Counterterrorism Technology and Analysis.

Hatfill had worked at Ft. Detrick, the U.S. Army’s bio-weapons lab in Maryland.

Kroll Inc., is a private investigation and security firm founded by Jules B. Kroll in 1972. The US government and the weapons industry is a major permanent contractor of the company. Kroll was responsible for security of the entire WTC site until it went down in the 9/11 attacks.

Defence Systems Limited was one of the earliest PMCs, formed in 1981 by a group of ex-SAS officials. Kroll has military team in their company and merged with Armor Holdings on August 23rd 2001 thus adding Defence Systems Limited, another Private Military Corporation, to their operations. An ex-KGB team called Alpha Firm was earlier acquired by Defence Systems Limited.

On September 11, 2001, in addition to his job with the NIH, Jerome Hauer was also Managing Director of Kroll Associates

“Jerome Hauer 9/11/2001 : No, I, uh, my sense is just the velocity of the plane and the fact that you have a plane filled with fuel hitting that building, uh, that burned, uh, the velocity of that plane, uh, certainly, uh, uh, had an impact on the structure itself, and then the fact that it burned and you had that intense heat, uh, probably weakened the structure as well, uh, and I think it, uh, was, uh, simply the, uh, the planes hitting the buildings, and, and causing the collapse.”

“Jerome Hauer 9/11/2001: Yeah, well I’m not sure I agree that, umm, this is necessarily state-sponsored. Umm, it, as I mentioned earlier, certainly has, umm, the, uh, fingerprints of somebody like Bin Laden.”

[PhantomWolf]

Oh I need to own you on this again? Some fools never learn. Remember when you tried to tell me Kroll didn't do security at the WTC and I had to rub your little nose in the facts? How did they smell did you forget? Here you go again...

Other than your wikipedia quote, where is your evidence that Kroll did do security for the WTC? Kroll was not a security firm, they did Security consultation. The PANYNJ Police did security there along with the security departments for the individual companies and Silverstien Investments.

Stephen Hatfill, at one time considered a prime suspect in this still-unsolved case, had worked for USAMRIID at Fort Detrick.

Hatfill was never consider then main suspect by the FBI, never.

These last two months, [FBI agents] have probably interviewed everyone at Fort Detrick and didn't find a suspect," he said. "They don't want to publicly rule anyone out, but their actions suggest that's what's going on. They don't think it's anybody who currently works at Detrick.

But top government officials, including White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, broke their silence twice in the past two weeks, both times to deny reports that they have focused their search on a single former Fort Detrick scientist. Fleischer announced that the FBI actually had a "handful" of suspects, prompting bureau officials to clarify that they had a "floating list" of about 20 names, but that none was considered a suspect.

The current round of speculation about a suspect appears to have stemmed largely from statements by Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, a microbiologist and expert in bioweapons control for the Federation of American Scientists.

Potential suspects with the scientific expertise to carry out last year's deadly anthrax attacks are believed to number in the ''thousands,'' far more than the dozens previously reported, a senior federal law enforcement official said Monday.

When the FBI conducted a consensual search of Dr. Hatfill's apartment on June 25, 2002, in Frederick, Maryland, the mainstream media immediately interpreted this search as confirmation of all the speculation that had been previously circulating about Dr. Hatfill. The FBI was asked whether Dr. Hatfill was a suspect in the case and when an arrest was anticipated. It was under these circumstances that unnamed sources at the FBI first described Steven Hatfill as one of many "persons of interest". ... The phrase was never used by the FBI or the Department of Justice to draw media attention to Dr. Hatfill. On the contrary, the phrase was used to deflect media scrutiny from Dr. Hatfill and to explain that he was just one of many scientists who had been inteviewed by the FBI and who were cooperating with the anthrax investigation.

Dr. Steven J. Hatfill, 48, has not been charged or identified by the FBI as a suspect. He worked at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, the top military bioterrorism research facility, for about two years in the late 1990s

The person who did consider him the chief suspect and ndid everything she could to have iot pinned on him by hook or by crook was Barbara Hatch Rosenberg. Every line that points at Hatfill leads back to her. You whole case is based on the political schemes of a women trying to take down an opponent to her political agenda. How does it feel to be a dupe and a pawn Zen?

As to the rest of it, I see you like to play quote minong and pin the tail on the Donkey, but do you have anything that resembles evidence? Thought not...

[manofthesea]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A49717-2003Sep9?language=printer

The Pursuit of Steven Hatfill

By Marilyn W. Thompson
Sunday, September 14, 2003; Page W06

That pretty much answers my questions, now doesn't it? The Ultimate CT.
Rosenberg, etal lay out a pretty good case.

Are there any other scientifically backed theories?

(I can see where a pharmaceutical company would take quick advantage of any threat. Especially those positioned to do so.)

The wording on the letters is especially troubling. If it was an inside job, the perps would have had to understand that this would forever be a part of American history. Who would despise our culture of equality so rabidly?

Also, I don't find the White House on 'Cipro' before the attacks troubling, it would have been prudent to act on any threat.

[Norseman]

He does have some interesting information but his belief that a first grader wrote the notes is a bit wacky.

I had the same thought when I read it, that part of his theory is a bit far fetched. And it would carry the risk of the child talking about it at school. The style of writing could just as well be a consequence of the attacker consciously trying to change his/her handwriting style to conceal his/her identity.

[Disbelief]

Ed Lakes is a wannabe screenwriter...

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/sleuthwithoutbadge.html

Sleuth Without a Badge

Retiree Ed Lake has become obsessed with the anthrax case -- and he has a theory about who did it

BY WENDY COLE/RACINE

Ed lake is not a cop. He has no formal training in forensics or any other aspect of law enforcement. But in the past year he has made it his business to master the intricacies of handwriting analysis, envelope technology and the schedule of U.S. mail pickups in and around Princeton, N.J. He can tell you all about cross-contamination, the common misspellings of penicillin and the "pharmaceutical fold" used by chemists for centuries to dispense medicines -- and by person or persons unknown to wrap scrawled terror messages around a few billion spores of surprisingly pure anthrax.

Lake, 65, a retired computer specialist, was planning to spend this year writing his seventh screenplay (sci-fi, time travel), convinced that this one would be good enough to get produced. Instead he has become obsessed with the hunt for the anthrax killer.

Gee, kind of sounds like Dylan.

[ZENSMACK89]

Other than your wikipedia quote, where is your evidence that Kroll did do security for the WTC? Kroll was not a security firm, they did Security consultation. The PANYNJ Police did security there along with the security departments for the individual companies and Silverstien Investments.

http://www.100share.com/World-Trade-Center.htm
World Trade Center
Jul 1, 1997 12:00 PM
By CAROL CAREY
"After the bombing, we had the top security consultants in the nation, Kroll Associates, do a complete security analysis for us, and we followed their recommendations," says Douglas G. Karpiloff, program manager, security systems for the WTC. A 26-year veteran of the Port Authority, Karpiloff, a Certified Protection Professional, was general manager of tenant services after the bomb went off. He is responsible for the overall facility management of the $50 million security improvement program: $15 million in completed interim improvements and $35 million for permanent improvements, from the 250 multi-ton perimeter planters that prevent vehicles from crashing into the buildings, to the network of fiber optics and copper that will connect the redundant PCs and their multi-task, multi-user operating system to the lobby, parking and perimeter access control systems, alarms, intercom and CCTV systems.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/13/lkl.00.html

KING: This, the night vigil continues. This is at Union Square area, around 14th street in Manhattan. Joining us now here in Los Angeles is another devastated gentleman. He is Michael Cherkasky, he is president and CEO of Kroll, Incorporated, the risk consulting company. Seven years ago that company was hired by the Port Authority to assess the risk and security at the World Trade Center, and at area airports.

Michael is a former prosecutor. He prosecuted John Gotti. And he lost in that accident the former FBI agent John O'Neal who you recently hired, right?

MICHAEL CHERKASKY, CEO, KROLL: We recently placed him at the Port Authority.

KING: To?

CHERKASKY: To, in fact, head their security. And it is absolutely devastating to have us consult with them, the Port Authority and to try to put in great security and a client who was conscious about its obligations to put in security and to protect its people, and to protect its clients and to have this devastating attack occur, and to fail to be able to do anything about it.

http://www.firehouse.com/news/2001/12/7_APwtcevacuation.html
``Three-thousand people died, and one has a hard time saying anything about it is a success,'' said Michael Cherkasky, president of Kroll Associates, a security company that helped the trade center's owner, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, revamp evacuation procedures after the 1993 bombing.
``Having said that, it is a remarkable story from the perspective of how the Port Authority was able to organize itself _ the success it had in evacuating the building in comparison to '93, and the heroic efforts of the police and fire.''

Hatfill was never consider then main suspect by the FBI, never.

Was anyone else ever named? Is there someone who was more of "a person of interset" then Hatfill?

Who else did they have under surveillance?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/19/hatfill/

Hatfill ticketed in altercation with FBI agent

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Steven Hatfill, under FBI surveillance in the anthrax investigation, was issued a ticket after an altercation this weekend with an agent, officials said.

Did the FBI drain any other ponds?

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129647

FBI Drains Pond in Hunt for Anthrax Killer
as Part Anthrax Probe

The decision to drain the pond in Maryland's Frederick Municipal Forest was based on what federal officials say is no more than a growing circumstantial case against Hatfill, federal law enforcement sources said.

The FBI's working theory, sources said, is that Hatfill, who lived eight miles away in Frederick, Md., next to U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases where he worked, used makeshift lab equipment to put finely powdered anthrax in envelopes, and then dumped the equipment in the pond.

The person who did consider him the chief suspect and ndid everything she could to have iot pinned on him by hook or by crook was Barbara Hatch Rosenberg. Every line that points at Hatfill leads back to her. You whole case is based on the political schemes of a women trying to take down an opponent to her political agenda. How does it feel to be a dupe and a pawn Zen?

Yes me and the FBI apparently. LOL

s to the rest of it, I see you like to play quote minong and pin the tail on the Donkey, but do you have anything that resembles evidence? Thought not...

Just pointing to the facts and rubbing your nose in them yet again.

[leftysergeant]

The only thing that seems certain is that the mailer was not an Arab. I figured that much out when I saw the date written on the letter in the newspaper. To an Arab, 9.11 is the 9th of November.

I would be looking more at white nationalists. They have, on occassion, been busted in posession of anthrax cultures. The have motive, means and opportunity.

That is the direction I would like to see pursued more vigorously.

They would even have access to a lot of military biowarfare facilities. It is part of their strategy to infiltrate the military. Recall, if you will, our recent discussions of Eric May.

[PhantomWolf]

"After the bombing, we had the top security consultants in the nation, Kroll Associates, do a complete security analysis for us, and we followed their recommendations"

"And it is absolutely devastating to have us consult with them"

"...that helped the trade center's owner, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, revamp evacuation procedures after the 1993 bombing."

"...it is a remarkable story from the perspective of how the Port Authority was able to organize itself..."

Care to show how any of these show that Kroll was not just a consultant after the 1993 bombings, but were in charge of the WTC security? All of the quote you have posted say the same thing, they were consultants. Funny that, after all they are Security Counsultants, by all accounts the best in NY, if not the US. Why wouldn't the PANYNJ use them as consultants to fix holes after 1993? There is still no evidence that they did anything other then make recommendations though, other than locating and recommending a Head of Security to Silverstien after his take over of the WTC lease in 2001. Those are the facts, from your very own quotes, and they d ispute your entire claim. Time to get off the Titanic, Zen.

Was anyone else ever named?

Question for you, who named him? Answer for you, not the FBI. Yes the FBI did investigate him deeper and more publically, but the reson for this was poloitical pressure based on Rosenberg's constant speeches about Hatfill being the culprit and the FBI doing nothing, she even went as far as going to Congress and demanding something was done, of course the FBI responded, what were they supposted to do? That doesn't mean they actually thought he was guilty, in fact they stated specifically that he didn't have the skills to do it, that didn't stop Rosenberg and her demands that he was strung up.

Yes me and the FBI apparently. LOL

No, the FBI knew they were being played by the media and politicians and tried to stop it, but couldn't. You want to swallow Rosenberg's lies, gossip and inuendo because your house of cards needs it to be true to stand up. Shame that after all that politically pressured investigation into Hatfill the FBI come up with exactly what they knew they'd end up with, nothing.

Just pointing to the facts and rubbing your nose in them yet again.

You wouldn't know a real fact is it bit you. Carry on living in your fantasy Zen, it's made up of nothing by air, cherry-picked quotes and the ravings of a vindictive woman whose political dreams were shot to pieces by someone she considered a nobody and then determined to destroy. When you finally decide that you want to find reality the rest of us will be waiting.

[ZENSMACK89]

"After the bombing, we had the top security consultants in the nation, Kroll Associates, do a complete security analysis for us, and we followed their recommendations"

"And it is absolutely devastating to have us consult with them"

"...that helped the trade center's owner, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, revamp evacuation procedures after the 1993 bombing."

"...it is a remarkable story from the perspective of how the Port Authority was able to organize itself..."

Care to show how any of these show that Kroll was not just a consultant after the 1993 bombings, but were in charge of the WTC security? All of the quote you have posted say the same thing, they were consultants. Funny that, after all they are Security Counsultants, by all accounts the best in NY, if not the US. Why wouldn't the PANYNJ use them as consultants to fix holes after 1993? There is still no evidence that they did anything other then make recommendations though, other than locating and recommending a Head of Security to Silverstien after his take over of the WTC lease in 2001. Those are the facts, from your very own quotes, and they d ispute your entire claim. Time to get off the Titanic, Zen.



Question for you, who named him? Answer for you, not the FBI. Yes the FBI did investigate him deeper and more publically, but the reson for this was poloitical pressure based on Rosenberg's constant speeches about Hatfill being the culprit and the FBI doing nothing, she even went as far as going to Congress and demanding something was done, of course the FBI responded, what were they supposted to do? That doesn't mean they actually thought he was guilty, in fact they stated specifically that he didn't have the skills to do it, that didn't stop Rosenberg and her demands that he was strung up.



No, the FBI knew they were being played by the media and politicians and tried to stop it, but couldn't. You want to swallow Rosenberg's lies, gossip and inuendo because your house of cards needs it to be true to stand up. Shame that after all that politically pressured investigation into Hatfill the FBI come up with exactly what they knew they'd end up with, nothing.



You wouldn't know a real fact is it bit you. Carry on living in your fantasy Zen, it's made up of nothing by air, cherry-picked quotes and the ravings of a vindictive woman whose political dreams were shot to pieces by someone she considered a nobody and then determined to destroy. When you finally decide that you want to find reality the rest of us will be waiting.


Give it up. You're reaching now. LOL

[PhantomWolf]

I would be looking more at white nationalists. They have, on occassion, been busted in posession of anthrax cultures. The have motive, means and opportunity.

Well not that I'm going to start pointing fingers, but I'd take a look at Rosenberg and her crew, they had a lot to gain from the entire deal, getting the BTWC relooked at after the US scuppered it. They were certainly pushing the "covert US lab" angle for all they were worth to try and make hay for their arguments in suppoort of the BTWC, and being able to pin the blame on one of the main opponets of the BTWC was just a the icing on the cake as far as they were conserned, so much so that it appears one of their crew even tried to frame him with a fake letter.

[PhantomWolf]

Give it up. You're reaching now. LOL

You've heard of Transference right? How about you come up with some real facts instead of made up ones? Oh hang on, you don't actually have any.

[ZENSMACK89]

You've heard of Transference right? How about you come up with some real facts instead of made up ones? Oh hang on, you don't actually have any.
Yeah like yours...right?

I can't help it if you can't read or fail to comprehend. My posts include CNN and ABC. Would you like to take your turn now and post something from Ed Lake and his sixth non green lighted screenplay? Keep coming with those scary facts.

[PhantomWolf]

Yeah like yours...right?

I can't help it if you can't read or fail to comprehend. My posts include CNN and ABC. Would you like to take your turn now and post something from Ed Lake and his sixth non green lighted screenplay? Keep coming with those scary facts.

Oooo, you posted links to the Media, the same people that eating up Rosenberg's lies and pressuring the FBI to do something, the same people that were sensationalising anything to do with Hatfill cause it made good press, the same people that claimed that the FBI had used bloodhounds to sniff the letters.. yeah right. How about quoting the FBI who were saying that Hatfill was one suspect amoungst thousands, that they had a moving list of 20 or so main suspects, that Hatfill didn't fit the profile and didn't have the skills, that they had interviewed everyone at Fort Detrik and didn't consider any of them prime suspects, that were saying Hatfill was not a main suspect, that were saying there was no evidence on Hatfill? I guess the FBI didn't have a clue what they were doing and we should let the media be our police force, since I mean, they never get anything wrong in your bizzaro world.

[ZENSMACK89]

Oooo, you posted links to the Media, the same people that eating up Rosenberg's lies and pressuring the FBI to do something, the same people that were sensationalising anything to do with Hatfill cause it made good press, the same people that claimed that the FBI had used bloodhounds to sniff the letters.. yeah right. How about quoting the FBI who were saying that Hatfill was one suspect amoungst thousands, that they had a moving list of 20 or so main suspects, that Hatfill didn't fit the profile and didn't have the skills, that they had interviewed everyone at Fort Detrik and didn't consider any of them prime suspects, that were saying Hatfill was not a main suspect, that were saying there was no evidence on Hatfill? I guess the FBI didn't have a clue what they were doing and we should let the media be our police force, since I mean, they never get anything wrong in your bizzaro world.
How about answering even one of my questions? Who else did they have under surveillance? When did they drain a pond near someone else? You said he wasn't a prime suspect. He was as prime as they come in the Anthrax investigation unless you can name someone else.

[PhantomWolf]

How about answering even one of my questions? Who else did they have under surveillance? When did they drain a pond near someone else? You said he wasn't a prime suspect. He was as prime as they come in the Anthrax investigation unless you can name someone else.

The FBI stated numerous times that he was not their prime suspect. The FBI never named anyone, the MEDIA named him. The FBI responded by saying that he was only one of a dozen people they were looking at. Why should I name someone else when the FBI stated multiple times that you are wrong?

[gtc]

According to the FBI Website, the Anthrax Case is still
under investigation - whatever this means:

Oliver.

I believe that it means that it is not a 'Cold Case'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_case

[MaGZ]

Same question. Is there a timeline of events associated with this CT?
Such as, who was diagnosed with anthrax?
Where was it contracted? And when.
Were the letters mailed on or before the 11th?
Were teh letters identical in composition? Were the stamps identical?
(Isn't that stuff written in the letters the same as on the banners we see people waving on tv?)
Basic evidence like that. Then I'm fairly confident that I can produce a pretty good (CT) suspect. Not that I haven't already.

Yes there is a timeline of events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks#Timeline

[MaGZ]

According to the FBI Website, the Anthrax Case is still
under investigation - whatever this means:

http://www.fbi.gov/anthrax/amerithraxlinks.htm

ETA:

Of course they have to say that. Actually the case was solved the moment the FBI read the article, The Anthrax Mystery: Solved.

http://irish-nationalism.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2082

[BenBurch]

The lack of public evidence and lack of public follow-through investigation does make one wonder what the Bush Administration is afraid it would find out if it solved the case...

But until the next Democratic administration, we'll have no further light shed on this officially it seems.

[Disbelief]

The lack of public evidence and lack of public follow-through investigation does make one wonder what the Bush Administration is afraid it would find out if it solved the case...

But until the next Democratic administration, we'll have no further light shed on this officially it seems.

Why do they have to make everything public? Maybe they just can't solve the case. Look how long it took to catch the Unabomber and he was a repeat offender, over numerous years, leaving numerous clues.

[BenBurch]

Why do they have to make everything public? Maybe they just can't solve the case. Look how long it took to catch the Unabomber and he was a repeat offender, over numerous years, leaving numerous clues.

Well, it may be the best way to run an investigation, but it leaves the public wondering if anything is being done.

And given the targets, it leaves this member of the public wondering if it was some person associated with the GOP who sent out the letters. If the Bush administration has the same fears, then they could do damage control by having only a minimal investigation underway.

I'm sure they don't know who did it. But I think they are afraid to find out.

[geggy]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2007/10/03/postal_workers_union_wants_more_answers_on_2001_an thrax_scare/

dang...a lot of kooks out there looking for answers...

[Disbelief]

Well, it may be the best way to run an investigation, but it leaves the public wondering if anything is being done.

And given the targets, it leaves this member of the public wondering if it was some person associated with the GOP who sent out the letters. If the Bush administration has the same fears, then they could do damage control by having only a minimal investigation underway.

I'm sure they don't know who did it. But I think they are afraid to find out.

Are you now engaging in a bit of Woo? The Bush administration has shown enough ineptness, what makes you think they would be able to help cover something like this up? Why would the FBI help?

[geggy]

Are you now engaging in a bit of Woo? The Bush administration has shown enough ineptness, what makes you think they would be able to help cover something like this up? Why would the FBI help?

michael chertoff is the head of the anthrax investigation... i wouldnt put anything past him...

[BenBurch]

Are you now engaging in a bit of Woo? The Bush administration has shown enough ineptness, what makes you think they would be able to help cover something like this up? Why would the FBI help?

It is speculation and I admit that, because they have a desire for secrecy that seems to be unique in American history.

Just look at the trouble subpoenaing even mundane records from them!

I am saying that if you fear an answer, you will sometimes do the minimum necessary to find it. You don't need the FBI to be helping if you simply give them insufficient resources for that case.

I don't trust these guys, in fact I think them to be criminals on a number of levels. I don't think they MIHOPed 911 and I don't think they MIHOPed the Anthrax, but in the case of the Anthrax, I don't think they want to know who did it.

[Caustic Logic]

Thank you all for looking into this. It's a very weird case, especially in that it remains unsolved. I did some research on it I'll have to dig up, but surely at least two new things to add.. later.

[PhantomWolf]

The major issues with the case is that there is no evidence to work with and thousands of suspects. The anthrax was crudely made and so didn't require huge knowledge or big labs, and the letters themselves hold no clues to the sender either. The person that did it might not even still be alive. Add to that people attempting to muddy the waters for their own political agenda and filling the media with their lies insteadof allowing the FBI to concentrate on doing their job... It's not really a surprise that no one has been caught yet.