Vote on worste companies

[Malachi151]

http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/dirty_dozen/

The creater of the poll has some good comments too.

[Skeptical Greg]

.....revoke the corporate charters that keep these companies on the streets.

How does this work...



P.S. The way to vote a company out of business, is to not buy their stuff...;)

[Tony]

I voted Nike.


I would have respect for adbusters if it wasnt such a reactionary woo-woo organization. The only value they have is their spoof ads, and even some of those are over the top.

[Solitaire]

Originally posted by Diogenes


How does this work...



P.S. The way to vote a company out of business, is to not buy their stuff...;)

Well, probably by going to the state where the corporation was
created and having a judge or the legislature disolve the charter.

Here's some radical stuff. (http://www.ratical.org/corporations/)

[Skeptic]

The way to vote a company out of business, is to not buy their stuff...;)

But your dealing with a "revolutionary marxist" here. You have to understand their point of view.

"Malachi" TALKS a lot about how horrible it is to live in the "evil capitalistic west" but still lives there, instead of actually DOING something like emigrating to Cuba.

Similarly, Malachi's view of "taking action" against companies he doesn't like is to TALK a lot about how awful they are, instead of actually DOING something like, God forbid, stop buying their products himself.

I mean, c'mon--a "revolutionary marxist" actually DOING something instead of TALKING about it? Get real...

[Malachi151]

Originally posted by Diogenes


How does this work...



P.S. The way to vote a company out of business, is to not buy their stuff...;)

I don't. And how does choosing not to buy from Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, and General Dynamics work exactly?

I buy American made products, which counts out Nike and Old Navy, and all that. I stopped drinking all sodas in high school, I havent' eaten at McDonalds in over 5 years, and even then I never ate there often, etc. The only one of those compnaies I deal with is Wal-Mart and GE. I don't have much choice about Wal-Mart, I don't know where to buy many things that Wal-Mart sell because all the other stores are out of business. I don't use Exxon if I have a choice, not like it matters they all sell fuel to each other.

Voting with the dollar only works if:

#1 People are knowledgeable about the business practises of the companies they buy from.
#2 There are alternatives to choose from that have better business practises.
#3 People actually care.

Given those three items, its easy to see that 99% of Americans don't fit all those criterial for the companies they deal with, if they do know of the business practises, which is rare, then if there are not alternatives they won't go without, and even if there are they may not care.

I also buy American made cars, which is why I buy Toyota and Honda ;)

[Skeptic]

I don't. And how does choosing not to buy from Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, and General Dynamics work exactly?

Not fly in planes, or buy products, that contain their engines, components, or plastics.

Oh wait. That might INCONVENIENCE you.

I stopped drinking all sodas in high school, I havent' eaten at McDonalds in over 5 years, and even then I never ate there often, etc.

So you bravely boycott companies which sell stuff you don't want.

The only one of those compnaies I deal with is Wal-Mart and GE. I don't have much choice about Wal-Mart, I don't know where to buy many things that Wal-Mart sell because all the other stores are out of business.

Concievably, you could DO WITHOUT THOSE PRODUCTS (like they do in those heavens of the workers, like Cuba and N. Korea). But wait, that will INCONVENIENCE you.

[Malachi151]

You know, I was told that this forum had signs of intelligent life, but so far it looks to me like its 70% idiots.

Not fly in planes, or buy products, that contain their engines, components, or plastics.

Oh wait. That might INCONVENIENCE you.

The US has been the largest weapons dealer in the world for about the past 20 years. Russia took that title briefly after the collapse of communism when they unloaded some weapons.

These companies sold million and or billions of dollars to Saddam in the 1980s. As far as I know I don't even use any products from these companies, and if I do I'm using civilian use products, not military weapons. Claiming that an individual should not fly on passenger jets because they oppose the sales of weapons to militant leaders around the world makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

So you bravely boycott companies which sell stuff you don't want.

And you point is... what? I like my health and I don't buy crappy unhealthy food products from these companies nor do I buy other products of theirs, such as Disani water from Coke, because I don't like their practices. And you have a complaint about this because....?

Concievably, you could DO WITHOUT THOSE PRODUCTS (like they do in those heavens of the workers, like Cuba and N. Korea). But wait, that will INCONVENIENCE you.

Why should I so without products because a store put small businesses out of business? That makes no sense. If I have the option of buying from locally owned businesses then I do, if I don't then I don't. The point of opposing corporatization is to continue to have alternatives, not to have nothing.

I was happy to do down to the local hardware store 10 years ago and buy American made tools, now you gotta go to department stores to do that, and half the time the tools aren't American made.

I was happy to go to locally owned grocery stores 10 years ago, but now they are all large chains and now Wal-Mart here has a huge grocery store in it. I support small businesses and self ownership, gee how horrible.

Of course I also grew up in a small town where you could go down mainstreet and buy everything you needed from independantly owned stores with peolpe you knew by name who owned and operated them. But, those days are gone forever. There is a Wal-Mart in that town now and all those stores are out of business, if you want to buy something you have to go to Wal-Mart, there is no choice. The small business owners use to be upper middle class people, now if they wanted to keep their stores they would be poor, so they sold them, I don't know what they do now, maybe they work for Wal-Mart now.

At any rate I'm not *that* critical of Wal-Mart anyway, I didn't even vote for it as one of the worst companies.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Skeptic
"Malachi" TALKS a lot about how horrible it is to live in the "evil capitalistic west" but still lives there, instead of actually DOING something like emigrating to Cuba.

Not to worry...

Malachi151 promised to leave if Bush gets reelected.

[Malachi151]

"Malachi" TALKS a lot about how horrible it is to live in the "evil capitalistic west" but still lives there, instead of actually DOING something like emigrating to Cuba.

Why would I go to Cuba? I place that has been attacked by America for 40 years? Cuba's problem is just as much from America as anything. Why does America still have economic sanctions agaisnt Cuba? Why would anyone want to live in a country with economic sanctions against it? Opening up trade with Cuba would actually bring in billions of dollars a year for Americans. The US is obviously the bully in this situation. Its like telling someone who was against the war in Iraq to go to Iraq and get kille dby bombs, it just amounts to ignorant school-yard stupidity.

[Dancing David]

I nominate Nestle for the corporate evil award, followed closely by IG Farben.

Skeptic: is it not possible to believe that the USA can be an even better place without being told to move to Cuba? I think that the CCCP and Cuba were about as sincere about communism as most Xians are about Xianity. I am not sure that N. Korea is even close to the c in communist, there are many nations that claim to be democracies as well. Some of us may believe that the rich are entitled to thier wealth but that they wield too much political clout.

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Kodiak


Not to worry...

Malachi151 promised to leave if Bush gets reelected.

Wanna bet $100 that he'll find some excuse to stay? I know, I know: it's a sucker's bet.

Of course, you are assuming that if and when Bush is reelected, Malachi would still be a "revolutionary marxist" at all. What if he finds a girlfriend in the meantime?

[Skeptic]

Skeptic: is it not possible to believe that the USA can be an even better place without being told to move to Cuba?

Certainly. Many people on this forum criticize the US for all kinds of things, often rightly so, and suggest improvements. I hardly think the US is above criticism.

However, Malachi sees the US's ENTIRE economic and political system as intolerably evil, and explicitly wants a "marxist revolution" that will turn the US into a communist country.

Since what he wants is a total revolution that will turn the US into a new Cuba--not specific changes or improvements that would turn the US into a better US--the demand that he move to Cuba (or North Korea, etc.) is relevant in this case.

I think that the CCCP

(For the uninitiated: that's the USSR...)

and Cuba were about as sincere about communism as most Xians are about Xianity.

Absolutely true. That's precisely the problem: as Solzenytzin once said, all "classless revolutionary societies" quickly degrade into a far more brutal class-based society, where the ancien regime simply replaced by a new hereditary oligarchy that eats all the fat, and that's it. He was sent to the gulags for 20 years for uttering this illegal truth, but it's still true.

There isn't, and there never was, ANY communist or marxist country that was anything ELSE but a thinly-disguised dictatorship--since communism always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, turns into such a dictatorship--just as Christian (or any religious rule) quickly becomes the religious version of such a dictatorship.

To work to create a "marxist revolution" in the US is, in practice, the EXACT SAME THING as working to create a Christian (or Muslim, or whatever) theocracy in the US. Both, experience shows, end up as brutal dictatorships--with the only differences between them being the superficial cover they use to hide their power.

there are many nations that claim to be democracies as well. Some of us may believe that the rich are entitled to thier wealth but that they wield too much political clout.

But that's not Malachi's position, is it? He thinks that being rich is theft from "the people"--that is, he is pissed that THEY make money instead of just giving it to HIM.

[Dancing David]

Looks like you read his paper. I haven't, is it possible that we could have a Marxist revoultion without the war, it seems to me that technology is a great leveler and has done more for the proletariat than Lenin. (I always wonedered if they just weren't ready for democracy, one autocrat replaced another).
Thanks

[Skeptic]

Looks like you read his paper.

I didn't. But most "revolutionary marxists" are clones of each other, as it is really a political cult; independent thought is not what they're known for.

I haven't, is it possible that we could have a Marxist revoultion without the war

It is. Then again, so is an invasion of aliens from Zeta Rectuli.

[Dancing David]

Well, and I do not see Planet X looming anytime soon.