Microwave cooking harmful?

[Dredred]

My mother recently got a microwave oven. Before using it, she did a google search for possible unhealthy effects of microwave cooking. She came across a lot of pages warning of all kinds of health risks (in Dutch so I won't post links). She takes it so seriously that now she won't even use her microwave.

I did a google search myself and found websites warning about an increased level of carcinogens in microwaved food, and other such hazards. But all of those sites seem somewhat dubious (example (http://blpublications.com/html/body_microwaveovens_.html)). I didn't find the warnings confirmed nor discredited at any reliable sites.

Does anyone know of a trustworthy source of information about this?

[StewartP]

http://www.arpansa.gov.au/is_mwave.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

I think there is as much risk in eating microwaved food as there is in drinking soda with Nutrasweet.



ie. VERY LITTLE. What is at issue here is relative risk. We worry about whether to use a microwave oven but happily get in a car and drive down the motorway.

Most risk regarding microwave ovens is related to the temperature that the heated food can attain. So you are WAY more likely to scald yourself than fry your brain from leaking waves.

from the wikipedia article "The radiation produced by a microwave oven is non-ionizing. As such, it does not have the cancer risks associated with ionizing radiation such as X-rays, ultraviolet light, and nuclear radioactive decay. Any cancer risk from microwave ovens would necessarily occur by an unknown mechanism. Such a mechanism, if existent, would also need to be far weaker than that for ionizing radiation, since long-term rodent studies of a type which easily identify cancer risks of ionizing radiation, have so far failed to clearly identify any carcinogenicity from 2450 MHz microwave radiation at chronic (large fraction of life span) exposure levels, far larger than humans are likely to encounter even from leaking ovens. PMID 9806599 PMID 9453703"

[ponderingturtle]

My mother recently got a microwave oven. Before using it, she did a google search for possible unhealthy effects of microwave cooking. She came across a lot of pages warning of all kinds of health risks (in Dutch so I won't post links). She takes it so seriously that now she won't even use her microwave.

I did a google search myself and found websites warning about an increased level of carcinogens in microwaved food, and other such hazards. But all of those sites seem somewhat dubious (example (http://blpublications.com/html/body_microwaveovens_.html)). I didn't find the warnings confirmed nor discredited at any reliable sites.

Does anyone know of a trustworthy source of information about this?

Unless a she can find a credible mechanism, you should tell her that her light bulbs emit much higher energy radiation and such

[Dredred]

from the wikipedia article "The radiation produced by a microwave oven is non-ionizing. As such, it does not have the cancer risks associated with ..."

Thank you for the information. However, the health risks my mother is so afraid of isn't leakage of radiation from microwave ovens, but what is described in the Wikipedia article as:

Some people claim there exist more subtle dangers than the ones listed above. Claimed dangers associated with microwave cooking include:

[...]
2. microwave radiation leads to chemical reactions in the food that are different from those occurring during conventional heating — and consuming that food causes cancer, particularly due to the formation of suspected carcinogens called d-nitrosodiethanolamines.


In neither of the articles you linked to i see that claim being discredited. The site I linked to as an example in my first post refers to different scientific studies that seem to provide evidence for such claims:

In Comparative Study of Food Prepared Conventionally and in the Microwave Oven, published by Raum & Zelt in 1992, at 3(2): 43, it states

"Microwave ovens produce an alternating current that forces a billion or more polarity reversals per second in every food molecule. Production of unnatural molecules is inevitable. Naturally occurring amino acids have been observed changing shape -- transforming into toxic forms.

One short-term study found significant and disturbing changes in the blood of individuals consuming microwaved milk and vegetables. Hemoglobin levels decreased and over all white cell levels and cholesterol levels increased."

The Swiss clinical study

Dr. Hans Ulrich Hertel, and a Lausanne University professor published a research paper indicating that food cooked in microwave ovens could pose a greater risk to health than food cooked by conventional means. An article also appeared in issue 19 of the Journal Franz Weber in which it was stated that the consumption of food cooked in microwave ovens had cancerous effects on the blood.

Dr. Hertel was the first scientist to conceive and carry out a quality clinical study on the effects microwaved nutrients have on the blood and physiology of the human body. His small, but well controlled, study showed the degenerative force produced by microwave ovens. The scientific conclusion showed that microwave cooking changed the nutrients in the food; and, changes took place in the participants' blood that could cause deterioration in the human system. Hertel's scientific study was done along with Dr. Bernard H. Blanc of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology and the University Institute for Biochemistry.
[...]


I don't how reliable those studies are nor do I know if those studies have indeed had the results claimed in the text.
Anyway, I don't know much about science but I never trust conclusions derived from one experiment unless that experiment has been duplicated by others with similar results.

[StewartP]

have a plough through www.junkscience.com. Some of the microwave food scares are linked to the scare about potato fries being carcinogens. All to do with moolecular changes under high heat.

junkscience.com is a fascinating liturgy of stories along the lines of this week caffeine good, redwine bad.

Also plough through www.numberwatch.co.uk which is about relative risk and the abuse of statistics.


What it may come down to in the case of your mother is to go along the lines of "yes, there is a risk but it is tiny. It's like winning the lotto two weeks in a row" Try to explain how it is impossible to prove zero risk. For anything.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Check out this thread:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55420 ... where it is discussed.

Especially when a new member found that a school science project that showed one of the anti-microwave sites was using falsified data:
http://www.eclecticreview.net/articles/2006/002-06-03-microwaved-water/detailed_experiment.html
and
http://www.eclecticreview.net/articles/2006/002-06-03-microwaved-water/data-errors.html

Also, remind you mother that there are lots of people who put out false information on the internet to scare folks into buying their useless junk (case in point: Mercola). Tell her from now on to avoid using Google to look up health matters and to stick to www.medlineplus.gov (http://www.medlineplus.gov) .

[Dredred]

Check out this..

Thanks!
I already found out that the article that worried my mother most was based on a study carried out on only EIGHT test subjects...
And two scare stories that turned out to be false, as I found out at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/

Also, I found this report (http://www.fehd.gov.hk/safefood/report/microwave/microwave_ra_e.pdf) from the Hong Kong Food and Environmental Hygiene Department with lots of information, leading to this conclusion:
Many studies have been conducted to assess the safety as well as possible nutrient loss associated with microwave cooking. The best available evidence supports that the use of microwave cooking resulted in foods with safety and nutrient quality similar to those cooked by conventional methods, provided that the consumers followed the given instructions.

Fortunately that was enough to reassure my mom.

[Dr. Imago]

Fortunately that was enough to reassure my mom.

:clap:

It is the small victories that matter most, in my opinion. Work within your sphere of influence to stamp out woo. Nice job!

-Dr. Imago

[Prospero]

If it makes you feel any better, two cell phones positioned across from one another with an egg in between them are capable of fully cooking the egg. Microwaves at least have shielded glass. And all they do is excite water molecules within the enclosed space. Nothing to worry about.

[casebro]

Just look at it from a step back: Comsumer microwaves have been around for 50 years. During that time, life expectancy has gone up, not down...

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

If it makes you feel any better, two cell phones positioned across from one another with an egg in between them are capable of fully cooking the egg. ....

Do you have any real proof of that? Because I have heard that it was a joke: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/3965/

Edit to add link to article explaining cellphone egg cooking joke:
http://www.gelfmagazine.com/mt/archives/how_to_cook_an_egg_and_create_a_viral_sensation.ht ml

[Prospero]

Do you have any real proof of that? Because I have heard that it was a joke: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/3965/

Edit to add link to article explaining cellphone egg cooking joke:
http://www.gelfmagazine.com/mt/archives/how_to_cook_an_egg_and_create_a_viral_sensation.ht ml

I was prepared to look up the video of this phenomenon if someone called the veracity of my statement into question. Having searched the video hosting site I saw it on originally and failing to find it, I must rescind my statement.

I have seen it to be possible (but my word is entirely hearsay), yet I suspect it was due to the circumstances being made to elicit the phenomenon, such as phones known to give off excessive amounts of electromagnetic radiation under certain non-real world circumstances.

[ponderingturtle]

If it makes you feel any better, two cell phones positioned across from one another with an egg in between them are capable of fully cooking the egg. Microwaves at least have shielded glass. And all they do is excite water molecules within the enclosed space. Nothing to worry about.

I would find that unlikely, I know hand held radio's in the microwave band are limited to 5 watts basicly for this reason(replace the egg with your eyes and you get the idea). Given the small percentage of each's actual transmission that would be blocked by the egg, it seems unlikely. Just not enough juice.

I would think a contrived aparatus might to it, if you put the antenas in the egg and put it into a good thermal insulator and over time you might get an effect, but it would take hours.

[Mojo]

I think there is as much risk in eating microwaved food as there is in drinking soda with Nutrasweet. Interestingly, the same website where the "Microwaved water and plants" page with the photoshopped pics was originally put up (http://www.execonn.com/sf/) also has this: http://www.execonn.com/poison.html

:rolleyes:

[Eos of the Eons]

I don't understand why more people don't fear the kind of radiation from a stove. At least a microwave is contained, and the waves stop once it is done. The heat from a conventional stove and oven radiates for a while after it is shut off!

A conventional stove causes chemical changes that browns, and then blackens food too.

I would tell mom if she fears microwaved food, then those same fears apply to the other ways of heating up food. She'd have to eat all raw to avoid all changes to food by heating it up.

If she is interested, then there are many resources to look into radiation, heat, etc.

Thermal (conventional oven) vs. Electromagnetic radiation (microwave oven)
It heats up food through microwave radiation, not thermal radiation. However, when microwave energy (with very high frequency) interacts with water molecules inside the food, it generates heat inside the food. Therefore, it can be modeled as some forms of heat generation but not relate to any modes of heat transfer.http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~shih/eml3015/lecture%20notes/radiation.htm

Egads, there is so much bullcacca on the net about this, I have a hard time sifting through to actual information. I don't blame your mom one bit, it's the fearmongers on the net that are to blame for spreading such unfounded idiocy around so darn much. Go figure, the idiots lying about microwaves have junk to sell you to save you from the microwave toxins.

Oy. Radiation is radiation. Unless you cook your body parts in a microwave or a conventional oven, the heat won't hurt you. Heck, even the sun can be both good and bad for you depending on how long you sit under it.

I had to laugh when I read that microwaved blood killed somebody. Well, yeah, and if you bake it and try to put it back in your body, then the baked blood will kill you too. The cooked blood cannot do its job any longer, and you might as well transfuse water or juice or whatever is not blood into your blood system. Duh duh duh duh duh....

[Dredred]

I had to laugh when I read that microwaved blood killed somebody. Well, yeah, and if you bake it and try to put it back in your body, then the baked blood will kill you too. The cooked blood cannot do its job any longer, and you might as well transfuse water or juice or whatever is not blood into your blood system. Duh duh duh duh duh....
As I understand it, the blood wasn't cooked, but heated to body temperature, which is apparently common practice prior to a blood transfusion. Usually they don't use a microwave though. But it wasn't the blood transfusion that killed her (http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/microwave_cooking_is_killing_you/); her death seems to have been caused by a blood clot.

I don't understand why more people don't fear the kind of radiation from a stove.

Probably because the effects of microwaves on food (possible molecular changes) are lesser known. Cecil Adams, writer of the Straight Dope columns, has this to say:
we still don't have enough info to answer it with anything other than paranoid speculation or empty reassurance.
Here (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/050506.html)'s his column about this in case your interested in how he reached that conclusion.

What I've read of him in the past gave me the impression he has a healthy skeptical view on things and he does his research.

[Mojo]

I don't understand why more people don't fear the kind of radiation from a stove. At least a microwave is contained, and the waves stop once it is done. The heat from a conventional stove and oven radiates for a while after it is shut off! Never mind stoves. What about light bulbs? Not only is no attempt made to shield us from the electromagnetic radiation they produce, but it is of a shorter wavelength than that produced by microwaves, and the photons therefore carry more energy!

[anor277]

Never mind stoves. What about light bulbs? Not only is no attempt made to shield us from the electromagnetic radiation they produce, but it is of a shorter wavelength than that produced by microwaves, and the photons therefore carry more energy!

Never mind light bulbs. What about sun-dried tomatoes? Think about that the next time you're eating an Italian meal whose components have had prolonged exposure to a known cancer-causing agent. And to think that the drying period only represented a little of their overall exposure.

[HidariMak]

Dredred, it's nice to know that you were able to win this battle of the woo, and what I'll say here might be useless now because of that. However, it's worth noting that news reporters contribute to a lot of these false beliefs, often unintentionally.

When an advanced sounding scientific idea is presented, which can grab the attention of whomever that media is aimed at, it gets presented to that audience. And for consumer publications, the journalist often doesn't have the background knowlege of physics, or chemistry, or history, or whatever to verify that info, nor are they required to first obtain it. At most, they rely on "experts" to validate the info, and may introduce further inaccuracies when conveying that information to their readers/viewers/listeners/etc.

Put another way, remember hearing years ago that the alar they sprayed on apples can kill you? It turned out that (IIRC) you'd have to eat 1,000,000 apples to get that effect.

Or how about all of the Y2K fears? Your car brakes would fail, and your car would refuse to start, despite the only clock which may be present not having any effect on either. Microwaves would stop working, even though I'm unaware of any which even have an am/pm indicator, much less a calender. Global blackouts, aircraft dropping out of the skies, and other such nonsense was rampant. And on January 1 2000, one of the biggest Y2K problems I'd heard about was cash registers across New Zealand showing the wrong date.

In short, even credible sources should be looked at closely. There's a reason why ABC has been nicknamed as "Another Bogus Claim" by one of the other posters here, for instance.

[Eos of the Eons]

Thank you for that great post HidariMak. In all these years of microwaving and other uses of radiation on our food, do know that the food cooking method is safe. It's not going to turn your food into a cancer causing agent. Just heat your food, cook it, and eat. Heat is heat. Your food changes the same way. A microwave will dry out the food if you don't cover it as well. Water is evaporated, no matter what the method. I like steamed food, and I like the way a microwave will steam it in the steaming bowls made for microwaving. Never mind stoves. What about light bulbs? Not only is no attempt made to shield us from the electromagnetic radiation they produce, but it is of a shorter wavelength than that produced by microwaves, and the photons therefore carry more energy!

Yeah, and the light bulbs are used in easy bake ovens for kids!


An excellent point by anor277 too.

[ponderingturtle]

Yeah, and the light bulbs are used in easy bake ovens for kids!


Easy bake ovens the silent killer.

Sounds like the perfect topic for a parody woo web page, but you might actualy convice people that they are dangerous.

[Cuddles]

Of course, microwave ovens can be dangerous. Due to the standing wave set up in a rectangular box, some parts will recieve a lot more energy than others, resulting in some parts of a dish being cooked and some still being raw, with obvious consequences. This is why most modern ovens have a rotating plate which allows all parts of a dish to be cooked equally. Not really a problem any more, but if you have an old oven it can be.

[Art Vandelay]

This is why most modern ovens have a rotating plate which allows all parts of a dish to be cooked equally. Not really a problem any more, but if you have an old oven it can be.Even with the rotating plate, itcan be a problem. Obviously, the center of the plate doesn't move, it doesn't do anything about moving the food vertically, and parts further from the surface will get cooked less.

When an advanced sounding scientific idea is presented, which can grab the attention of whomever that media is aimed atYou have an extra comma there. And it should be "medium".

[Cuddles]

Even with the rotating plate, itcan be a problem. Obviously, the center of the plate doesn't move, it doesn't do anything about moving the food vertically, and parts further from the surface will get cooked less.

Yeah, I was going to link to a cool new microwave that varies the field without moving the food so it doesn't use a standing wave and heats all the inside equally, but I couldn't find it anywhere and can't remember where I read about it :(

[trvlr2]

Big WOOP! Ya'all too lazy to turn the food? Best corn-on-the- cob and steamed veggies there is!:)

[Eos of the Eons]

Yeah, I have a turntable, and I will stir up stuff a bit to get it all evenly cooked.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Also, there are things that you need to watch when using the microwave.

Things like sauces and hot cereal tend to boil by getting one big bubble and then exploding out of the bowl. (by the way, I like using the microwave to make tapioca pudding, and the white sauce with vegies for scalloped potatoes... the recipe for the latter is in the Cook Book thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1359483&i#post1359483)).

[ponderingturtle]

Big WOOP! Ya'all too lazy to turn the food? Best corn-on-the- cob and steamed veggies there is!:)

Corn on the cob is better roasted in an proper oven, it just takes longer.

[ponderingturtle]

Also, there are things that you need to watch when using the microwave.

Things like sauces and hot cereal tend to boil by getting one big bubble and then exploding out of the bowl. (by the way, I like using the microwave to make tapioca pudding, and the white sauce with vegies for scalloped potatoes... the recipe for the latter is in the Cook Book thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1359483&i#post1359483)).

Butter explodes in the microwave as well, and then you have all that butter over everything to clean up.

[cloudshipsrule]

Back to the cellphone cooking an egg theory stated earlier in this thread. Simply based on the low power (milliwatts) output from the phone I'd call 'bull' on this without any scientific study to prove it. Also, the output is omnidirectional. The phones would communicate with the nearest tower, then with each other, not directly with one another.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Back to the cellphone cooking an egg theory stated earlier in this thread. Simply based on the low power (milliwatts) output from the phone I'd call 'bull' on this without any scientific study to prove it. Also, the output is omnidirectional. The phones would communicate with the nearest tower, then with each other, not directly with one another.

Did you miss the part about it being a "hoax/joke"? Including the link to the article where the creator of the joke talked about it.

[cloudshipsrule]

...miss the link...

I spose' I did. I was reading too quickly during my break to 'take in' as much randi.org as I could in a short amount of time. Obviously rate is proportional to accuracy when it comes to my reading comprehension.

In retrospect, I saw your links, and then I saw rekindled debate on the topic in the posts following your links, which is why I posted what I did.

[trvlr2]

Corn on the cob is better roasted in an proper oven, it just takes longer.

Ummm...give me your recipe, I'll try it and compare.
My way-shuck and wash the corn, leave wet, wrap in MW safe plastic wrap, give it about 4min(600watt),+ a few secs if it's cold from the fridge,put in the grippers&peel the plastic-season to taste.
I do all my steamed veggies similarly-no extra water to soak up the flavors,and it does not heat up the kitchen.:)

[Art Vandelay]

Corn on the cob is better roasted in an proper oven, it just takes longer.Or you could just eat it raw. I don't understand why people feel the need to cook things like corn and carrots.

Butter explodes in the microwave as well, and then you have all that butter over everything to clean up.You do need to watch it, but you can melt it safely if you get the time just right.

Back to the cellphone cooking an egg theory stated earlier in this thread. Simply based on the low power (milliwatts) output from the phone I'd call 'bull' on this without any scientific study to prove it. Also, the output is omnidirectional. The phones would communicate with the nearest tower, then with each other, not directly with one another.I think the idea is that they create feedback that keeps them transmitting.

[ponderingturtle]

Ummm...give me your recipe, I'll try it and compare.
My way-shuck and wash the corn, leave wet, wrap in MW safe plastic wrap, give it about 4min(600watt),+ a few secs if it's cold from the fridge,put in the grippers&peel the plastic-season to taste.
I do all my steamed veggies similarly-no extra water to soak up the flavors,and it does not heat up the kitchen.:)

Just put the corn unshucked into a 400 degree oven until done(1/2 hour I think), It can also be done on the grill.

The logic by why this is beter is that you are driving out more moisture and concentrating the flavors as well as concievably carmelizing some of the sugars.

The only problem with corn is then shucking the hot corn.

[ponderingturtle]

Or you could just eat it raw. I don't understand why people feel the need to cook things like corn and carrots.

Cooked carrots I don't like, but then I don't like uncooked tomatoes

You do need to watch it, but you can melt it safely if you get the time just right.
It still had unmelted butter in it, I was watching it, it was just that medium was to high

[SusanB-M1]

After ignoring the 'leave to stand for one or two minutes' instruction for ten years, I did this and realised that the food was cooked much better that way!