Comments about ghosts

[swifty]

Ok I made a post about people believing in shadow people before, now in the same thread they are talking about ghosts.

They had alot of 'evidence' of their encounters with 'ghosts'. You could read them but I do not want to waste your time that much. Just a couple of comments to what I said in the thread which sparked my interest. My post you may not agree with but Im moreso wandering what you think of this guys comments.

Originally Posted by SwiftY
And now we believe in ghosts and shadow people? Not much of an advancement eh?

It will be a long long time before people stop believing in ghosts and what not, actually people will always believe probably. Just like people will always believe in religions. We need to find out why things happen and what causes these events to occur, thus we will look at any reason we can and claim it to be true.

Whoever before was saying to respect other peoples' views or something of the like is correct. I choose to think and base my opinions of things by fact. Others choose different. I do not hate these people, I live with people like this. I dont make it my mission to try and disprove anything everybody says I just think that the OTHER side of the story should be told to give impartial viewers a chance to decide what they think to be true.

Your beliefs are based on a lack of experience whereas others base theres on actual events and first hand experience. Just because YOU'VE never seen a ghost many others have such as myself have and its not like a little shadow that I choose to believe is a ghost but actual ghosts right in front of my face in broad daylight. You have a theory for everything though so u can keep ur fragile little belief system intact so you'll invent that all these people must be hallucinating instead of considering the fact that just maybe they are real.


Also someone afterwards said "good point, just because you've never seen something doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
ive never seen a rhino doesnt mean it doesnt exist, still i dont believe in ghost"

Now I wont tell you what I said to this but hopefully you all also found these comments rediculous. Especially the "because you havn't seen/experienced seeing a ghost doesnt mean that it doesn't exist" comment... am I supposed to be lead to believe that it means that they do exist if I havnt seen a ghost before?

Please discuss.

[Soapy Sam]

You're not "supposed to " anything.
I take it you are posting on a "woo" site? If so, you must expect "woo" arguments. All you can do in that situation is put your case fairly, honestly and with respect for the rules of that board.
Failure to do so makes you a troll by their definition, which is always the local one. Whether you are right is of less interest to the admins than whether you are disruptive.
JREF being a sceptic / rationalist board, anyone making woo claims can expect to be repeatedly asked to explain and show evidence. He will not be (or should not be) attacked for his views, but will be challenged to defend them. In practice, it can get ugly. People are people. Apart from their bizarrely perverse belief in nonsense, I have found most "woos" to be pretty decent people, with some nasty ones and some fools. I suspect the ratios are similar both sides of the line. Take a stroll through the politics section here. It may shock you. The level of wilfull pig headedness and unwillingness to listen to reasoned argument can be scary.

[gfunkusarelius]

the problem is they are discarding science and logic for belief, so scientific arguments are baseless to them. obviously there is a preponderance of great evidence for the existence of rhinos while the only evidence for ghosts is anecdotal or easily explained physical evidence. they are happy to argue that anecdotal evidence is adequet (on the false belief that a "lot" of anecdotal evidence makes it valuable). so the foundation for determination is miring.

[Limbo9]

Your beliefs are based on a lack of experience whereas others base theres on actual events and first hand experience. Just because YOU'VE never seen a ghost many others have such as myself have and its not like a little shadow that I choose to believe is a ghost but actual ghosts right in front of my face in broad daylight. You have a theory for everything though so u can keep ur fragile little belief system intact so you'll invent that all these people must be hallucinating instead of considering the fact that just maybe they are real.

They are real, but they aren't ghosts or shadow people. They are thought-forms, ie artificial entities created by the mind.

[Overman]

The main problem is that people do not fully understand reason and logic, critical thinking, and science.

If you argue against reason, how are you to argue? If use reason to argue against reason, then you are validating the claims you are trying to refute. If you are against reason with anything but reason, you arguement is nonsense and cannot be respected.

The problem lies with people not understanding (or wanting to understand) what fully is in encompassed by reason and logic, and the strict rules that one must follow to make a reasonable or logical arguement.

If someone only choose to follow certian rules but also certian fallicies, you will end up with arguements (like the one above) that fail to make sense, convince, and genreally fall into the 'woo' category.

[Yahzi]

Here's the question I like to ask ghost-believers.

Why are ghosts always seen wearing clothes? Where do they get clothes - from The Ghasp? The Other Side of Sax Fifth Avenue? Or more likely, Dullards...

It's a really good question. If ghosts are physical manifestions of spirit, why are they wearing clothing?

[RemieV]

I can answer that in a woo way without even having to believe it. I mean, they sort of covered the concept in The Matrix and What Dreams May Come. I will say again: I do not believe this.

They are either wearing clothing because they expect to, or we expect them to. *sigh*

To swifty, the original poster... According to statistics, every person on the planet will eventually have some kind of experience they can label as "paranormal". The difference between us all is who takes it at face value, and who looks deeper for an answer.

[juryjone]

They are either wearing clothing because they expect to, or we expect them to. *sigh*
You mean I can see some nekkid ghosties if I wants to?

Man, there may be something to this woo...

[soulhill]

Here's the question I like to ask ghost-believers.

Why are ghosts always seen wearing clothes? Where do they get clothes - from The Ghasp? The Other Side of Sax Fifth Avenue? Or more likely, Dullards...

It's a really good question. If ghosts are physical manifestions of spirit, why are they wearing clothing?

Jeez, I hate to burst your bubble, but I believe "real" ghosts look like glowing white orbs, or, to be more accurate, bits of out of focus dust in the air.

[Correa Neto]

Uhm...

Why ghosts pass through walls but do not sink through the floor?

[RemieV]

*thinks over a woo answer*

Because when they appear, they want to be seen. Their desire keeps them above floor level, and their will allows them to pass through walls.

Disclaimer: I still don't believe this.

[Jimbo07]

Uhm...

Why ghosts pass through walls but do not sink through the floor?

Ghosts walk the paths to which their souls are condemned. If a ghost died in an old prison, which was later rebuilt, the ghost will walk the corridors of the prison, regardless of the current corridors. Moreover, they walk in the condition of their death. Therefore, if they died in nightdress, they'll appear in nightdress. Unless, as soulhill suggests, they only appear as white orbs. It's the same spirit, but you're not yet fully conditioned to see the ghosts in their form as they lived. With practice and true belief, the orbs will eventually resolve themselves for you. Of course, only the most dedicated mediums can actually ever talk to them. Ghosts will try to talk to you all the time, but unless you've studied Hermetic meditation for at least a decade, it will only sound like shreiking, single letters, or other incomprehensible nonsense.

Don't you people know anything? :rolleyes:

[Miss Whiplash]

If ghosts exist, why do they never haunt pathology labs. I mean, getting your innards taken out and weighted and all would be distressing. Why doesn't some ghost object?

Why do ghosts supposidly hang out at cemeteries? Can't they come up with something better? I'd go to Aruba, myself. Or maybe Monte Carlo.

[Jimbo07]

If ghosts exist, why do they never haunt pathology labs. I mean, getting your innards taken out and weighted and all would be distressing. Why doesn't some ghost object?

Why do ghosts supposidly hang out at cemeteries? Can't they come up with something better? I'd go to Aruba, myself. Or maybe Monte Carlo.

...

Did the people die in the pathology lab? Probably not.

Did they die in Aruba? Maybe. If so, they get to be ghosts in Aruba...

reeaally... :rolleyes:

[Limbo9]

How to create a Ghost (http://ghostspirit.tribe.net/thread/aa07cd24-4141-458e-8d0b-e05ec541d6f1)

[Miss Whiplash]

...

Did the people die in the pathology lab? Probably not.

Did they die in Aruba? Maybe. If so, they get to be ghosts in Aruba...

reeaally... :rolleyes:


Well, few die in cemeteries soooo...........:cool:

[Miss Whiplash]

How to create a Ghost (http://ghostspirit.tribe.net/thread/aa07cd24-4141-458e-8d0b-e05ec541d6f1)

Thanks for that link. Didn't Mary Roach write about that in Spook (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393059626/sr=8-1/qid=1155680781/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0548354-8264011?ie=UTF8)?

[Jimbo07]

No, I think you have your legends wrong. Cemeteries are haunted by Frankensteins and Igors looking for brains. They're also breeding grounds for zombies, which are re-animated corpses, not the souls of the dearly departed.

There are lots of legit reasons like these to be afraid of cemeteries, but not ghosts. C'mon, be a little bit skeptical...

:D

[Limbo9]

Thanks for that link. Didn't Mary Roach write about that in Spook (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393059626/sr=8-1/qid=1155680781/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0548354-8264011?ie=UTF8)?

I haven't read it but I just checked it out at Amazon. Based on a quick glance at the table of contents, I would guess she doesn't. She seems to subscribe to the spirit model all the way.

[fuelair]

Also someone afterwards said "good point, just because you've never seen something doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
ive never seen a rhino doesnt mean it doesnt exist, still i dont believe in ghost"

Now I wont tell you what I said to this but hopefully you all also found these comments rediculous. Especially the "because you havn't seen/experienced seeing a ghost doesnt mean that it doesn't exist" comment... am I supposed to be lead to believe that it means that they do exist if I havnt seen a ghost before?

Please discuss.

Responding to only one - as far as I could see not responded to yet- part of above. The full phrase ( to be correct ) should read " just because you haven't experienced/seen a ghost doesn't mean that it doesn't exist but it also doesn't mean that it does". It is meaningless. It is not evidence. It is, in its' incomplete phrasing, supposed to indicate something that it really cannot logically - that your not seeing ghosts doesn't mean anything but they are really there(implied, not stated).

[Correa Neto]

Ghosts walk the paths to which their souls are condemned. If a ghost died in an old prison, which was later rebuilt, the ghost will walk the corridors of the prison, regardless of the current corridors. Moreover, they walk in the condition of their death. Therefore, if they died in nightdress, they'll appear in nightdress. Unless, as soulhill suggests, they only appear as white orbs. It's the same spirit, but you're not yet fully conditioned to see the ghosts in their form as they lived. With practice and true belief, the orbs will eventually resolve themselves for you. Of course, only the most dedicated mediums can actually ever talk to them. Ghosts will try to talk to you all the time, but unless you've studied Hermetic meditation for at least a decade, it will only sound like shreiking, single letters, or other incomprehensible nonsense.

Don't you people know anything? :rolleyes:
Nope:p !

Suppose Lord John Doe died at the second floor of The White Pony Tavern. How come nowdays people see him walking along the corridors of the house that was built at the site?

BTW, why so many tales about ghosts of aristocrats?

Where are the thousands of ghosts of the people who died in WW2, for example?

[Jimbo07]

BTW, why so many tales about ghosts of aristocrats?

There are many tales of mundane people becoming ghosts. In fact, their only claim to fame is that they are ghosts!

Where are the thousands of ghosts of the people who died in WW2, for example?

Millions, more likely. I'm sure people will tell tales of what seem like entire haunted villages. People in ghost towns will feel like being watched from every corner. After WWI, interest in mediums spiked as grieving loved ones tried to contact the other side.

[Tamazon]

No, I think you have your legends wrong. Cemeteries are haunted by Frankensteins and Igors looking for brains. They're also breeding grounds for zombies, which are re-animated corpses, not the souls of the dearly departed.

There are lots of legit reasons like these to be afraid of cemeteries, but not ghosts. C'mon, be a little bit skeptical...

:D

Don't forget about vampires. Geesh, didn't anyone watch Buffy?

[RemieV]

Come on, we need to read more woo books here. Clearly ghosts haunt cemeteries because they're afraid to leave their bodies and travel to the other side. Geesh. :)

Disclaimer: Still don't believe any of this.

[Tamazon]

Come on, we need to read more woo books here. Clearly ghosts haunt cemeteries because they're afraid to leave their bodies and travel to the other side. Geesh. :)

Disclaimer: Still don't believe any of this.

But if they die in the hospital but get buried in the cemetary then why do they haunt the hospital? I don't get it. :confused:

[RemieV]

I guess it depends on the spirit. Either they still think they are alive, so they haunt where they died, or they are afraid to leave their mortal remains so they haunt the cemetery.

Disclaimer: I swear, no matter how much it sounds like it, I STILL don't believe this stuff :)

[Yahzi]

They are either wearing clothing because they expect to, or we expect them to. *sigh*
The problem with that answer is that it automatically removes ghosts from the realm of the tangible.

No more ghost meters, ectoplasm, or photography.

Even the woos can eventually grasp this concept: if the ghost is a purely mental projection, then it hasn't got any physics to measure.

:D

[Azrael 5]

As there are more dead people dead than there are people alive,we should be overrun with them!! You never hear of ghosts in mundane places or in daylight-at the petrol station at 3pm for instance.

[Dazed]

If ghosts can record their voices on tape recorders, why can't they post on forums?

[Dr B]

Ghosts haunt brains....it is we that are the haunters of houses....

[Mongrel]

But if they die in the hospital but get buried in the cemetary then why do they haunt the hospital? I don't get it. :confused:

Better view and a chance to get a bit of fresh air :)

[Correa Neto]

If ghosts can record their voices on tape recorders, why can't they post on forums?
[theremin sound]
Who said they can't?
[/theremin sound]
:wide-eyed

Where are the ghosts of the Atlanteans?????

[Genesius]

Where are the ghosts of the Atlanteans?????


As everyone who is truly enlightened knows, the Atlanteans were much too spiritually advanced to hang around our mortal sphere as ghosts. They have moved on to higher planes, only occasionally choosing to channel themselves through wonderful people like J. Z. Knight.

[Cuddles]

Where are the ghosts of the Atlanteans?????

Ghosts don't float :(

[Tamazon]

And why do we only see some ghosts and not others. Like why can't we see the "guy who's name starts with the letter M" standing behind John Edward whispering in his ear. Of course, he'd be looking very perplexed by the fact that he can't remember the rest of his name.

If only the mediums are "sensitive" enough to see them, then why do plain ol' ordinary people see them too?

I guess I should be asking woos these questions. Hey Yahzi, maybe I should go to "A Haunting" forum and ask them.

[Jimbo07]

If only the mediums are "sensitive" enough to see them, then why do plain ol' ordinary people see them too?


No, only mediums are experienced enough to communicate effectively with them. To the rest of us, it just sounds like a single letter, or shrieking, or whatever. Clearly, John Edward is a fake, but that doesn't mean real mediums and ghosts aren't out there. Edward just hasn't studied enough: Qabbala, Hermetic Magic, I Ching, Chai Tea and medimatation.

[Hellbound]

Ghosts don't float :(

Oh, they obviously float.

But they're water soluble...

[Azrael 5]

A story in a UK paper today that a plane on the set of new James Bond film is haunted!! Can't find a link so may transcribe it later.
Basically that crew are scared to work on the plane and lights and noises come on despite the plane having no power!
Anyone would think they had a film to promote!

[RemieV]

As there are more dead people dead than there are people alive,we should be overrun with them!! You never hear of ghosts in mundane places or in daylight-at the petrol station at 3pm for instance.

This actually isn't true. While searching for haunted places to "investigate" in the style of Ghost Hunters (and debunk all the readings gathered) I discovered that near me there are various extremely mundane haunted locations including a haunted Home Depot, a haunted Spaghetti Warehouse, a haunted Zoo, and a haunted Red Lobster. I can't believe I just typed the words "haunted Red Lobster". For some reason, that makes me incredibly sad.

And most of the "activity" in these places happens when the business is open. The zoo closes before sundown, and all the rest are closed by 10 pm.

Disclaimer: I swear, I do not believe there is a haunted Red Lobster.

Check out the index for mundane hauntings near you:

http://www.theshadowlands.net/places/

[Correa Neto]

Ghosts don't float :(
Oh, they obviously float.

But they're water soluble...
You are both wrong.

Ever heard of ghost ships?

[Jimbo07]

Disclaimer: I swear, I do not believe there is a haunted Red Lobster.



Then you need to open your mind. ;)

[RemieV]

Ha. I wouldn't go to a Red Lobster while alive, let alone after my eternal soul began wandering the earth. That bothers me about the idea of ghosts - why would they want to hang out in a Red Lobster? It's kind of sad to think that someone's loved one could find nothing better to do in the afterlife than hang out in a cheap seafood restaurant.

[SphereGuy]

Check out the index for mundane hauntings near you:

http://www.theshadowlands.net/places/

My house used to be listed there but it's been a long, long time since I visited that site and it even looks different now.


I see the Algona Gypsy Graveyard is still listed. I've visited Algona many times (I live right up the road) and have asked around about this graveyard and no one has heard of it and I've visited every cemetery in town and around the country side and there is no cemetery with a "seperate fenced section" as they described. I dearly wanted to photograph such a site but alas, I fear it doesn't exist.

I've also asked around about people seeing ghost planes crashing and no one has ever heard of that. I live in Mason City and I think technically the plane crashed in Clear Lake.

My house, however, is real even though the stories associated with it are not.

[RemieV]

Are you SURE your house is real?! *Dum dum dummmmmmm*

[SphereGuy]

Are you SURE your house is real?! *Dum dum dummmmmmm*

The neighbors do look at me funny.

[fuelair]

But if they die in the hospital but get buried in the cemetary then why do they haunt the hospital? I don't get it. :confused:

Hospital killed 'em and they need to settle the score!!

[Piscivore]

Ha. I wouldn't go to a Red Lobster while alive, let alone after my eternal soul began wandering the earth. That bothers me about the idea of ghosts - why would they want to hang out in a Red Lobster? It's kind of sad to think that someone's loved one could find nothing better to do in the afterlife than hang out in a cheap seafood restaurant.

Well, my ghost might...

[Piscivore]

Mesa - The Landmark Restaurant - Wood carving of lady in women's restroom turns the faucets on and off, servers hear there names being called from the front station, voices of women have been heard in the downstairs hallway late at night, track lighting in hallway downstairs have blown up, is said that the second step from the downstairs going up is haunted

Hey! My co-worker used to be a manager here! I'll ask her about this tomorrow.

I'm not sure how a step can be haunted though...

[CLD]

...haunted Red Lobster

What exactly happens at a haunted Red Lobster? "Mysteriously" over/undercooked food? "Inexplicably" small portions? Silverware with "ghostly" fingerprints on it?

[RemieV]

That's what they tell the health inspectors..

[Tamazon]

I'm told the building I work in is haunted as well. I hear all sorts of stories of electrical problems and such while it was being built. I was told that sometimes when you are in one of the bathroom stalls, it appears as if someone walks in front of the stall even though no one else is in the bathroom. Sure enough, one day whilst peeing, the lights dimmed just outside the stall as if someone had passed by and I knew the bathroom was empty.

:eek:

It actually freaked me out for a second until my critical thinking skills took over and I soon realized that whenever the Booster Juice next to the bathroom turned on their blenders, the lights in the bathroom dimmed for a split second!

Funny, even though knowing such things don't exist, I still get the willys when fellow employees tell me stories of things they've seen or heard that sound otherworldy.

[Tamazon]

I find that a big reason that people believe in reincarnation and ghosts is just because they are scared that there is nothing after death.

Why? I'd rather there be nothing then trudging around in a ladies room for eternity or moaning about in an old dreary cemetary. :boggled:

Hopefully I'll die in Disneyland. But I guess even Space Mountain would get tiresome after the 6 millionth ride. :drool:

How long does a dead person have to be dead before they get to be reincarnated anyways? Is it like a draw a number and wait your turn thing?

[Yahzi]

I find that a big reason that people believe in reincarnation and ghosts is just because they are scared that there is nothing after death.
I just don't get that.

How is saying this life is a cheap preview of the real life supposed to make this life more meaningful?

And when they get to the afterlife - won't they just be scared that there is nothing after that? I mean, what are they going to do when eternity runs out?

[Tamazon]

I just don't get that.

Me neither. I guess if their life sucks now they have something to look forward to. Lots of people are taught their whole lives that when they die they get to go to the happy place called heaven. They are not informed however that they may instead be doomed to wander hospital corridors or whisper sweet nothings into John Edwards ears for eternity. Or maybe you get to be the spook that sits in the rocking chair of your old creaky house scaring the pants off all the ghost hunters that come by. I guess there are jobs that need filling in the afterlife too. Geesh, I need to work on my resume!

And when they get to the afterlife - won't they just be scared that there is nothing after that?

Good question. How long is the afterlife anyways. If it's just another "life" as the name suggests then there must be an end to that too. Is it reincarnation? I don't remember my past lives so wouldn't that then be the same as nothingness.

The inconsistencies of it all really boggle the mind. Which is really why I don't understand why anyone would believe it. It just MAKES NO SENSE!

:bwall

[Miss Whiplash]

A couple of weeks ago several posters commented on Browne's fumble on Montel Williams. Here is the video of her pronouncing the 9/11 victim as drowned.

Sylvia Browne Misses by a Mile (http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=149)

How did this end up here! It was a new thread!