Another Sylvia Screw Up

[SPQR]

I'm pretty sure this one has been mentioned here before, but I just saw it for myself and I feel it needs repeating.

Watching "Sylvia Browne Wensday" on Montel earlier this morning I witnessed the biggest screw up I've ever seen her commit. It was in the last 15 minutes of the show and Montel was taking questions from the audience. A woman stood up and said that her husband died four years ago and his body has yet to be found.

Sylvia said that his body would most likely never be found since it was in water. Sylvia said that he was telling her that he had drowned. The camera than switched to the woman who asked the question just in time to catch her severely puzzled and somewhat insulted facial expression.

"Well," said the woman, "he died on September 11th. He was a firefighter and they were never able to find any part of him." The camera than switched back to Sylvia and recorded her dumbfounded expression which she kept for at least a minute but what must have felt like an eternity to her. Sylvia then attempted to explain to the woman that her husband keeps telling her that he feels as if he was drowned like, "Something filled his lungs and he couldn't breathe."

The woman mantained that there was no way her husband could have drowned while Sylvia basically continued to say that this woman was wrong. Then once the woman sat back down Sylvia said to Montel something like, "There must have been water involved, to put out the fire. He could have drowned that way."

I wish I could convey to you the absolute horror in Sylvia's eyes throughout this entire exchange. It was priceless. Even Montel had a look on his face which seemed to say, You've got to be kidding." I would have felt sorry for poor Ms. Browne if I did not hate here so much.

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

I'm pretty sure this one has been mentioned here before, but I just saw it for myself and I feel it needs repeating.

Watching "Sylvia Browne Wensday" on Montel earlier this morning I witnessed the biggest screw up I've ever seen her commit. It was in the last 15 minutes of the show and Montel was taking questions from the audience. A woman stood up and said that her husband died four years ago and his body has yet to be found.

Sylvia said that his body would most likely never be found since it was in water. Sylvia said that he was telling her that he had drowned. The camera than switched to the woman who asked the question just in time to catch her severely puzzled and somewhat insulted facial expression.

"Well," said the woman, "he died on September 11th. He was a firefighter and they were never able to find any part of him." The camera than switched back to Sylvia and recorded her dumbfounded expression which she kept for at least a minute but what must have felt like an eternity to her. Sylvia then attempted to explain to the woman that her husband keeps telling her that he feels as if he was drowned like, "Something filled his lungs and he couldn't breathe."

The woman mantained that there was no way her husband could have drowned while Sylvia basically continued to say that this woman was wrong. Then once the woman sat back down Sylvia said to Montel something like, "There must have been water involved, to put out the fire. He could have drowned that way."

I wish I could convey to you the absolute horror in Sylvia's eyes throughout this entire exchange. It was priceless. Even Montel had a look on his face which seemed to say, You've got to be kidding." I would have felt sorry for poor Ms. Browne if I did not hate here so much.
I wish I could see a video of that. That should be on JREF's front page.

[Lisa Simpson]

If it's the same episode, it will air here in the L.A. area at 2:00pm Pacific. I will record it and put it up somewhere.

[Dragonrock]

I would give Marquis de Carabas' right arm to get a chance to see this.

[CFLarsen]

If it's the same episode, it will air here in the L.A. area at 2:00pm Pacific. I will record it and put it up somewhere.

I need that clip, in good quality.

Get me that, and I'll talk to Randi about showing it at TAM5.

[Crossbow]

Some 70 years ago the original "Three Stooges" used to make fun of various psychics, frauds, and charlatans.

Now in this age of incredible technology, people who have the incredible good fortune to have a TV talk show like Montel Williams are stooges for Sylvia Brown and her ilk.

Ugh o Ugh!

[juryjone]

It was already discussed here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57365). It's surprising that they'd rerun that debacle so soon.

[Bandersnatch]

I seem to remember that...

Was it a new one? With all of her screw ups, it's difficult to tell :(

EDIT: Thanks juryjone!

[Overman]

Avatar anyone?

[Overman]

Write into the show to complain here (http://www.montelshow.com/sendyourpov/)

[alfaniner]

Put it up on YouTube?

[Dr Adequate]

Normally I'd make some subtle sarcastic witty remark.

But on this occasion I'm just going to say ...

PWWWWN'D!

[Lisa Simpson]

Okay! Here it is. It's a Quicktime file, since my digital recorder records for my iPod.

http://www.randi.org/media/sylvia.mov

Many thanks to Jeff, BTW.

[alfaniner]

Here's a couple screen shots from the vid.

The second one is of the woman just after she sat down after hearing Sylvia's spew. If there's a better look that says "B.S.!!!" I don't know it.

[CFLarsen]

Oooohhh.....

I love the way the woman just sits down while Sylvia is making up her lies.

A classic!

[CFLarsen]

I'm still watching it. Yet again.

This is an EDITED show, people. Talk about being condescending to your audience...

[Wolverine]

Just... wow.

[CFLarsen]

Here's a couple screen shots from the vid.

The second one is of the woman just after she sat down after hearing Sylvia's spew. If there's a better look that says "B.S.!!!" I don't know it.

Look at Sylvia's....claws.

There's no better word for it.

[TheBoyPaj]

It's on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dU0Q208HKI

Expect some interesting comments.

[jdodd]

Commented. Decided to start off simply and see where it goes.

[Ladewig]

Look at Sylvia's....claws.

There's no better word for it.

Normally, I strongly disagree when folks here make fun of a psychic's appearance or mannerisms, but WTF is she doing with nails like those?

[Dragonrock]

I would give Marquis de Carabas' right arm to get a chance to see this.

Okay! Here it is. It's a Quicktime file, since my digital recorder records for my iPod.

http://www.randi.org/media/sylvia.mov

Many thanks to Jeff, BTW.

Thanks Lisa, I will give you MdC's dismembered right arm as soon as I get it outta this goat.

[Bronze Dog]

Oh. Their. God.

Is it just me, or has Sylvia managed to get even uglier since last I saw her?

But I digress from that irrelevant tangent which Ladewig correctly points out that I shouldn't have done.

But anyway, yeah, seems like Sylvia's done a splendid job of hanging herself. Unfortunately, she and her fans probably won't care. They'll just redefine success a la Kessel run in under a parsec.

[Walk The Line]

Is it just me, or has Sylvia managed to get even uglier since last I saw her?

I second the nomination.

But I digress from that irrelevant tangent which Ladewig correctly points out that I shouldn't have done.

Would it be any worse to say that she is an ugly person, not in physical appearance, but in character?

But anyway, yeah, seems like Sylvia's done a splendid job of hanging herself. Unfortunately, she and her fans probably won't care. They'll just redefine success a la Kessel run in under a parsec.

I was astounded that she so casually acted like finiding the body doesn't matter. For many families finding the body of a loved one who is missing is an important sign of closure. To act like it's not significant strikes me at heartless.

[The Don]

Of course this will make absolutely no difference to her popularity.

She saw water......he was a fireman.........clearly a hit

[Lisa Simpson]

Thanks Lisa, I will give you MdC's dismembered right arm as soon as I get it outta this goat.

Um...great?

Lisa Simpson
742 Evergreen Terrace
Springfield USA

[Bronze Dog]

Um...great?

Lisa Simpson
742 Evergreen Terrace
Springfield USA

What state is that?

[Lisa Simpson]

From wiki:

A web page discussing Springfield's location states that due to the many contradictory clues, it is impossible for Springfield to exist in any set location. Though in the episode Blame It on Lisa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blame_It_on_Lisa), the character Lisa Simpson addresses the issue of Springfield's location by saying, "It's a bit of a mystery, yes. But if you look at the clues, you'll figure it out."

You know, in all this time that I have been "she who must be blamed" I did not know there was a Simpsons episode entitled "Blame it on Lisa".

[Dragonrock]

There is at least one Springfield in every state and most have several. There are something like 114 Springfields in the USA and around 15 in Canada.

[Belz...]

deleted

[Tamarillicent]

What state is that?

I remember seeing a Simpson's episode, it was a "Behind the Music" type episode, and at the end they said, "...this northern Kentucky family..."
So, yeah, I think it's northern Kentucky. :)

Tam

PS - Sylvia Brown is a nutcase. I enjoyed very much see her flounder. It was just as much fun as the miner disaster screw up. I've always hated her arrogant attitude, so the more smackdowns the better.

[Belz...]

Look at Sylvia's....claws.

There's no better word for it.

She's a bird of prey, Claus. Those are called TALONS.

[Moose]

She's a bird of prey, Claus. Those are called TALONS.

Talons is right, but she's not a bird of prey. She's a carrion-eater.:mad:

[Walk The Line]

I remember seeing a Simpson's episode, it was a "Behind the Music" type episode, and at the end they said, "...this northern Kentucky family..."
So, yeah, I think it's northern Kentucky. :)

Tam

I remember seeing the same episode when it first aired in May 2000. It made sense because my family and I were visiting relatives and had gone through nothern Kentucky, where "Shelbyville" and "Simpsonville" are about 20 miles apart.

However, the producers of the show wanted to be jerks and changed the location of the town when re-runs of that episode aired. So there is no longer a set state for where they live.

[bjb]

Do the psychics have large talons?

[RemieV]

You know, if she'd rephrased it, she could've gotten a hit out of the ordeal. All she had to do was start off by saying "I'm seeing something about water..." And then the woman bursts in with "He was a fireman!"

But I like it better this way. Much more satisfying ;)

[Luke T.]

You know, if she'd rephrased it, she could've gotten a hit out of the ordeal. All she had to do was start off by saying "I'm seeing something about water..." And then the woman bursts in with "He was a fireman!"

But I like it better this way. Much more satisfying ;)

I was thinking it was too bad the woman interrupted her while she was going on about drowning. She was about to say more which most likely would have involved a lake or ocean and would have really dug herself further into a hole.

[Trantor]

Unbelievable that this woman can do what she does. She's had so many screw-ups and her fans seem to never notice any of them. I saw her on Motel a few weeks ago; she was so bad that I actually hurt from laughing so much! And Montel keeps her coming. The human mind is truly amazing. Sad, so sad.

[CFLarsen]

She's a bird of prey, Claus. Those are called TALONS.

I stand corrected.

[Belz...]

I stand corrected.

I wonder how she can remove labels from purchased items with those.

[CACTUSJACKmankin]

Why aren't flubs like that and the incident with the miners career-ending for a psychic? How can Montel or Noory sit idly by as these things happen and not take them to task for it? How can they ever have these people on again? I just don't get it.

[Starthinker]

Did anyone notice near the end she says something to Montel like, "well, if he was a fireman and putting out the fire...."? I got the feeling that 1. She was trying to imply he drowned himself with a firehose, or 2. She was trying to justify the hit. I can't believe they didn't edit that out for the re-run.

Montel was just wanting to move on.

[Tamarillicent]

However, the producers of the show wanted to be jerks and changed the location of the town when re-runs of that episode aired. So there is no longer a set state for where they live.

I guess it's funnier if it's a mystery?
Oh well. I'm glad "m not the only one who remembers that episode.

Tam

[Flo]

Why aren't flubs like that and the incident with the miners career-ending for a psychic? How can Montel or Noory sit idly by as these things happen and not take them to task for it? How can they ever have these people on again? I just don't get it.


Because other victi... viewers will remember the hits and excuse the misses, especially when the misses concern someone else*. As for Montel (and the media in general), they wouldn't want to alienate all those dupes by explaining how that [rule8] is defrauding them ...



* as in "making mistakes is normal, everybody - even spirits - can be wrong at times, what would be suspect was if she never, ever was wrong, and anyway, in my case, she was amazing about what she said about Aunt Emma and her poodle Fifi", etc.

[Ladewig]

Why aren't flubs like that and the incident with the miners career-ending for a psychic? How can Montel or Noory sit idly by as these things happen and not take them to task for it? How can they ever have these people on again? I just don't get it.

James Randi exposed televangelist Peter Popoff as a two-bit con who did hot reading with a small earphone radio receiver. Yet, today, Popoff is back on the air.

Jimmy Swaggart wrote a bad check to pay a prostitute and he is back on tha air asking for money to do God's work.

Uri Geller was exposed by the late Johnny Carson (and by Modern Photography magazine) yet people still send him money to buy his magic crystals.

The list goes on.

[princesspoppy]

What a vile piece of humanity that thing is, and shame on the public who continue to make her and so many others rich.

[RSLancastr]

This has now been added to Browne's Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Browne#Montel_Williams_.229.2F11_Reading.22 _Controversy).

[voidx]

The worst part, to me, is what she says at the end.

"No, they won't find him. But that's ok, it doesn't matter if they find him or not, he's still over "there"".

Well obviously it mattered to the woman. Her comment that they "never found a piece of him" would seem to show that not being able to recover his body was, among I'm sure many other things, causing her a problem with feeling any closure over his death.

She's horrible at what she does. If one were inclined it could have been very easy to twist that into a hit. The man was trapped deep under debris, there very likely were pockets of flooding in the wreckage due to trying to douse the fires. She sort of started down that road, but she'd paused too long, it was far to obvious that she was racking her brain to find an excuse, or hoping the woman would give over to her bullying and accept the drowning explanation. Neither happened and so she trailed off and Montel bailed her out by taking the next question.

Keep clicking links on youtube, there are several other clips of her old performances. Sylvia, worst of all, just makes stuff up off the top of her head. Montel generally has a whole montage, or the audience member gives her a complete background on the story. There generally is some area of uncertainty surrounding the event and Sylvia just fills it in with whatever she pulls out of her arse. Its sad.

[Mr. Stick]

This has now been added to Browne's Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Browne#Montel_Williams_.229.2F11_Reading.22 _Controversy).

Well done.

[Joe Bloggs]

Hasn't anyone ever challewnged Montel as to why he puts this crap on air? I know it gets ratings but has anyone ever tried to get in the audience when Browne has been on and challenged her like with Larry King?

[bjb]

I borrowed the video of Sylvia agreeing to take Randi's challenge and put it up on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJFWSTD8vpQ

I wonder what the Sylvia defenders will say about this? Paj, I sent a request to you for this to be a video response to that Montel Williams clip.

[JayT]

Sylvia said that his body would most likely never be found since it was in water. Sylvia said that he was telling her that he had drowned. The camera than switched to the woman who asked the question just in time to catch her severely puzzled and somewhat insulted facial expression.


I stopped watching Montel long ago due to the rather odd guests he often has on his show. Sylvia Browne has always been rated among the lowest of the worst of them in my personal opinion. John Edward is another that ranks right along side Sylvia Browne among the pseudopsychic serpents.

On some rare occasions, the producers make a mistake and actually invite a guest who has something worthy of note to say, but this is getting less and less the case over time.

Although I sometimes have a sense of humour, or so the rumours say, I find those kinds of crackpot guests far more offensive than entertaining, especially when I see what appears to be a gullible audience eagerly swallowing it hook, line and sinker like a starving fish.

When I think of the way those people who pretend to speak to spirits manipulate the ignorance and/or the grief of their victims, and 'victims' is the perfect word for it, to gain profits, publicity and notoriety, it makes my flesh crawl with revulsion at what they represent. That's one case in which my sense of humour dies completely beyond resurrection. It's not entertaining, its despicable beyond words.

I noticed that she's often made references to the Bible, God and religion. Doesn't the Bible mandate death to those who consult with spirits? It certainly does. I wonder how she would answer to that if one of the audience were to inquire. Selective religion is not valid religion. In other words, preaching and believing what's convenient and ignoring the rest. That's how it seems to work in most cases. Anyone who believes and takes their religion seriously should call her into account on that issue.

If there are any critical thinkers in the audience who ever speak up, the producers must edit it out of the final production cut.

[TheBoyPaj]

Now here's a dilemma. I received a message through Youtube from a person claiming to be the woman in the clip. She asked that I remove the clip in honour of her boyfriend. She says that she appreciates why I have put it on the site, but that she is distressed by the amount of sites which are referring to the video.

Any suggestions? I don't want to needlessly upset someone, but I have to weigh that against the public value of the clip and the possibility that it's not even her.

Should I ask for some photo verification of identity?

[Mr. Stick]

Now here's a dilemma. I received a message through Youtube from a person claiming to be the woman in the clip. She asked that I remove the clip in honour of her boyfriend. She says that she appreciates why I have put it on the site, but that she is distressed by the amount of sites which are referring to the video.

Any suggestions? I don't want to needlessly upset someone, but I have to weigh that against the public value of the clip and the possibility that it's not even her.

Should I ask for some photo verification of identity?

She's asked RSL to remove the link from StopSylviaBrowne too. Go read his update at the bottom of this (http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/montel_911fireman.shtml)page.

[sophia8]

The woman has a valid point, and I think that RSL is right in taking the video off his site. However, I hope she's also complaining to Montel as well - long and loud.

[SezMe]

sophia8 suggests an interesting approach. Ask her for evidence that she has strenously complained to Montel, asking that SB never appear on her program again. If she has, I would take the video down. If not, ....

[Reno]

Wouldn't it honour her boyfriend more if this clip helped sink Browne?

I think the good of the many outweighs the good of the few in this case. I'd keep the clip up. I know that sounds callous, but sometimes exposing charlatans isn't an easy road to take.

[RSLancastr]

Wouldn't it honour her boyfriend more if this clip helped sink Browne?[/QUOTEThat is a point I made to her back when we were corresponding. And while she understood my point of view, it was just too painful for her, knowing so many were watching that clip.

[QUOTE]I think the good of the many outweighs the good of the few in this case. I'd keep the clip up. I know that sounds callous, but sometimes exposing charlatans isn't an easy road to take.I understand you point, but for me, it was not that simple.

To have kept that woman's image on my site, after she had asked me to take it down, would have been doing what Browne does: using people who are vulnerable and grieving to further an agenda.

While my agenda is to protect people from being defrauded, and Browne's agenda is lining her own pockets, that didn't justify my adding to that woman's suffering.

As they say, be careful when fighting something despicable that you do not become the thing you despise.

[shell]

While my agenda is to protect people from being defrauded, and Browne's agenda is lining her own pockets, that didn't justify my adding to that woman's suffering.

As they say, be careful when fighting something despicable that you do not become the thing you despise.

Well said, Robert.

[RSLancastr]

The woman has a valid point, and I think that RSL is right in taking the video off his site. However, I hope she's also complaining to Montel as well - long and loud.She said that she contacted them the day after the taping and begged them to edit her segment out of the show.

My guess is that to be an audience member, you sign away any right to object to being shown.

[Lisa Simpson]

She said that she contacted them the day after the taping and begged them to edit her segment out of the show.

My guess is that to be an audience member, you sign away any right to object to being shown.

I didn't know that. It sure makes Montel's people look harsh.

[Pro7]

Time to turn on my uber limited detective psychic powers!!! (just joking)

Uh.. Sylvia Browne.. any of you are real life investigators? Check her history out..

Frauds?? Felony? Forgery? oooh hmm..

[Jeff Corey]

She said that she contacted them the day after the taping and begged them to edit her segment out of the show.

My guess is that to be an audience member, you sign away any right to object to being shown.
I had to sign a release, but I was scheduled to be interviewed by Montel from the audience. My wife, sitting next to me and mostly off camera, doesn't recall having to sign a release.

[Kilgore Trout]

I didn't know that. It sure makes Montel's people look harsh.

(Preface: I'm rather new to this place, so not sure if I should have maybe just waited for a more knowledgeable person to answer but ... I guess 'in the meantime'..)

I think it's actually the other way round. Montel would need someone to sign a form to appear on TV to legally 'use their likeness.' I don't think someone is signing away their rights, but instead enforcing them, and stating that Montel can 'use their likeness.'

(Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer, I just thought I'd heard something about the idea. I'd seen on TV a couple instances of "may we use your voice on the air?" sorts of things (and why some people are blurred out on Cops) and wondered why that was necessary. I apologize for not doing further research; I googled a bit, and the best I did was just finding the phrase I was searching for (hence the single quotes above) on 'Prank Call Central' surely not a source to quote from.. I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit (no pun intended) that Montel didn't have the woman sign her likeness over as a way of being harsh, but covering his own tuchus. This disclaimer may not actually be necessary, but being a bit new here, you skeptics scare me with all the citing sources and proof. I kid. :) )

Edit, noting prior reply: Perhaps, being scheduled to speak on the air, they knew to ask you for a release ahead of time. Did your wife speak on the show? If yes, could they have asked her after to the taping to sign a release? If not, maybe that's why.

[Lisa Simpson]

Sure, he was covering his arse, but if she called up and begged them not to use that footage, it seems pretty callous to air it anyway, especially since Sylvia missed it so badly. Would have made more sense for them to delete that bit, then if it ever came out how badly she missed it, they could claim the widow asked them to remove it.

[Kilgore Trout]

Sorry, yes, that's quite true. Looking back I missed the 'the day after the show'. The harshness is in the refusal, not that they had her sign a release.

[Reno]

I understand you point, but for me, it was not that simple.

To have kept that woman's image on my site, after she had asked me to take it down, would have been doing what Browne does: using people who are vulnerable and grieving to further an agenda.


Yes RSL, I agree with your decision to take down the video from SSB. I think it was the right thing to do in your case for the reasons you mention and because your site is the main place people will come to test their opinion in Sylvia Browne. If the fence-sitters have knowledge that the fire-fighter's girlfriend asked you to remove the video, and you refused, then it may sway their opinion in favour of Browne. This is to be avoided at all costs.

In TheBoyPaj's case, it's more important to keep the clip on youtube than to comply with the request (a rather selfish request in my opinion) of the lady to remove it. This video clip needs to remain accessible to people who read the transcripts on SSB and want to see the clip for themselves. To many people, video images are more powerful than the written word.

[TheBoyPaj]

I have taken it down. Sylvia has made, and will continue to make, other cock ups.

[Reno]

I have taken it down. Sylvia has made, and will continue to make, other cock ups.

Fair point.

[Mr. Scott]

Bob, The subject of the "please take my image down" request has stated she believes in psychics and the afterlife, but just doesn't believe in the clawed one. How did that work into your decision to censor her image, if at all? Did you ask why she believes in psychic stuff? Seems like an "in" for discussing this subject with her. Is it possible she has a secondary agenda of interfering with debunkers?

[RSLancastr]

Bob, The subject of the "please take my image down" request has stated she believes in psychics and the afterlife, but just doesn't believe in the clawed one. How did that work into your decision to censor her image, if at all?I had made that decision before she told me that she still believes in some psychics. It played no part in my decision.

Did you ask why she believes in psychic stuff? Seems like an "in" for discussing this subject with her.I did not ask. When someone who has suffered a great loss tells me they believe in psychics, I do not take it upon myself to try and convince them otherwise. If they ask me why I myself don't believe in psychics, I will tell them. But it isn't my place to try to convince them that they are wrong. Of coure, if they chose to read my web site, they will learn hy I don't believe that Browne is psychic.

Is it possible she has a secondary agenda of interfering with debunkers?I suppose it is possible, but in the course of several emails back and forth, I did not get that impression. And even if I had, since I was satisfied that she was who she claimed to be, I would have agreed to her request anyway.

And if she had the "secondary agenda" you theorize, I doubt she would have agreed to my quoting her email within the article.

[Pro7]

baaahhhh..

all people who claim themselves psychics and are after media attention and money included, are frauds.

I think that true psychics out there would never abuse themselves with their mental powers or even allow themselves to appear in front of the world such as slyvia has done.

This is what I think about people who really do paranormal stuff, etc etc....

If you have real "powers" of any kind.. what would you do? .. thats my point.. I would run and hide somewhere.. or keep it hidden from the public and friends. Such "powers" would be priceless and a person would definetely keep it to him/herself. :cool:

[JQH]

The Tags box says "screw sylvia".

I'd rather not!

[EternalSceptic]

I would give Marquis de Carabas' right arm to get a chance to see this.


I'd give Sylvia's right arm. With pleasure and confidence.

[Pro7]

I'd give Sylvia's right arm. With pleasure and confidence.

Dont forget to clip her darn nails too. :eye-poppi

[Pro7]

A thing about people having long fingernails...

"It is considered as witchcraft or sorcery if a woman has long fingernails, used in the purpose to distract a person."

I hope my wife doesnt get long fingernails, I will have a hard time getting her to stratch my back :catfight: