JonBenet killer arrested - psychics not involved

[RichardR]

Suspect arrested (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/us/16cnd-jonbenet.html?hp&ex=1155787200&en=4516007831e72470&ei=5094&partner=homepage):

WASHINGTON, Aug. 16 — A suspect has been arrested in Thailand in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey, the 6-year-old beauty queen whose slaying in her parents’ Colorado home nearly a decade ago shocked the nation and for a time cast a cloud on the family, federal officials said today.

The suspect was arrested on Tuesday night in Bangkok by members of the Boulder County, Colorado, district attorney’s office, United States immigration officers and the Royal Thai Police, said Dean Boyd, a spokesman for the immigration and customs enforcement agency of the Department of Homeland Security.

An American security official who spoke on the condition of anonymity said the man arrested is a United States citizen, and that the arrest resulted from “several months of fairly complex investigation.”

Federal officials familiar with the case said the man was already being held in Bangkok on unrelated sex charges, The Associated Press reported. CBS News reported that the suspect is a 41-year-old elementary-school teacher.Of course, he's innocent until proven guilty. Still, just for the sake of argument let's say he's the one. No mention of whether this arrest was helped by this sketch of the "killer" (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/epilogue_12.html) given by psychic Dorothy Allison:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/12a.jpg

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[bjb]

I didn't know the Banjo Boy from Deliverance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Redden) was a suspect.

[bob_kark]

How could you look at BBfD and not suspect him?

[Loss Leader]

Suspect arrested


You know, I used to be a proud skeptic but I'm hanging it up. If they caught JonBenet's killer, anything is possible.

[Luke T.]

October 29, 2002:I believe Robert Blake will be acquitted of murder charges, and I think the JonBenet Ramsey Murder was committed by Patsy Ramsey when she mixed prescription drugs with alcohol. The family covered up the crime

Feb 22, 1999: Jon Benet Ramsey was killed accidently by her mother.She was killed by a blow to the head from a golf club.
Pasty Ramsey was swinging the club in an effort to kill the male who was molesting Jon Benet. Patsy walked in on the molestion in progress; the male was so involved with what he was doing, he never heard Patsy enter the first time or the second time when she returned w/ the club. I've always thought the molester was John Ramsey, but know it was a male family member. OklahomaT@aol.com

Psychic Prediction Registry (http://www.psychicpathways.com/precognition.html)

[Luke T.]

The Nutley, New Jersey, great-grandmother was featured on the April 27 airing of LEEZA (The Leeza Gibbons Show), a program titled "Dorothy Allison: Tracking JonBenet's Killer." Allison insisted that the little girl's parents were "absolutely not" involved, and that the real killer was a former handyman. She perceived "connections" to Germany and Georgia, the numbers 2-8-9, and the names "Martin" and "Irving" -- the latter, she said, being "the one I think that did this" (the murder). Working with a police artist, Allison produced a drawing of the alleged killer.

http://www.valleyskeptic.com/psybunk.htm

[Luke T.]

Oh, now here's a real winner. First, notice how the psychic criticizes the media for trying to blame the parents...

"I first did this reading way back in July of 2001. To this day, I stick by my initial prediction, and if you watch closely, you'll see people like the District Attorney and certain reporters recanting their original position that the child's parents were responsible," replied Ms. Who. "The media simply went overboard and as a result, a serial killer was let loose."

And then coldly goes on to blame and smear another innocent person:

"What's worse is the fact that the man I believe was responsible, Bill McReynolds, was also a friend of the Ramsey family. In my initial reading [in 2001], I heard the word "caretaker" spoken, so he was definitely someone that the family would have entrusted their dear children to. I've heard rumors that the Ramsey family stood by McReynolds from the beginning as the least likely candidate for killer. "He was such a nice man" was what just about everyone said. I've actually met a serial killer in person, and he too was a very nice man! They always are, aren't they?

"McReynolds was never fully investigated by authorities. He has since passed on, and this case will forever remain unsolved unless someone actually takes the time to test this man's DNA," concluded our psychic.

http://www.sixthsearch.com/uns_jbramsey.asp

[Luke T.]

Another bizarro contact with JonBenet:

When I connected on a spirit level with this lovely little girl far removed from her pageant days (which by the way she loved) she had continued to show me the image of a brown haired Caucasian young man who had an avid love of gardening.

This man was allowed to have closeness to the family. Jon Benet flooded me with images of the two riding a Ferris wheel together at a local fair. She then proceeded to show me that this young man who had lived with in 5 miles of her childhood home had up and moved abruptly after her death to a New England town. (Back East). I had received this information directly from Jon Benet. She stood fully formed in my living room she was taller and plainer then she was as a small child, her make up gone, clothed in jeans and a dark sweat shirt, her lovely hair still long and luminescent and her smile and blue eyes focused directly on me.

She used all her strength to come though in a very physical way, this was shocking as very few spirits choose to generate this type of energetic expression, Jon Benet wished to be visually be seen with in the context of our conversation.

Jon Benet knew her killer well and he had the family trust, she kept showing me the friendship they developed and the neighborhood in which he lived which was with in 5 miles of Jon Benet's home.

No one would have thought anything of his coming and goings since he had such a love of gardening , he was social and out going skilled in all verbal pleasantries and the matching physical charms needed to seduce successfully.

He was drawn to Jon Benet in a perverse sexually sadistic way and for months prior to the killing he had used the scenario as a sexually gratifying fantasy. There was more then one abuser, the little girl showed me an early incident around the age of three that was on going and familiar, she knew that in this life she was learning how to transcend the physical sexual body. John Ramsey was basically blind to those around his daughter, he wouldn't acknowledge sexual perversion because of his own propensity for pornography and his own sexual addiction. Sometimes we ignore the very signs we share with others, this blindness put his daughter in the surroundings of a sexual predator and her Father thought nothing of it, because he harbored similar thoughts.

At this point she seemed to get very serious and directly and firmly told me that the killer would be caught back east by her own father. A chance meeting between John Ramsey and the former Denver resident draws no suspicion at first. It is during the initial conversation that John Ramsey is plagued by a series of dreams that he will later recount, these dreams or thoughts trigger questions and these questions cause John Ramsey to follow his gut and find out why this man moved from Denver.

I am predicting that Jon Benets Killer will be brought the justice in the next 5 years which will be 2009.

Nice little jab at Dad in there with the sexual addiction thing.

Sloan Bella (http://www.sloanbella.com/channeling/channel-benetramsey.html)

[RichardR]

http://www.valleyskeptic.com/psybunk.htm

"Martin" and "Irving"? That would explain John Mark Karr (http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/16/ramsey.arrest/index.html) then.

[nightwind]

Well, I would imagine that they are quite sure that this is probably the killer, and have a strong suspicion that they will have strong evidence that they got their man. Just a feeling.

I was always hoping that they would solve this case, and never believed the stupid theories about mom doing it, etc. and never saw evidence as such.

But this is a very good lesson in how witch hunts happen, and how someone can easily be accused and raked across the coals, even with little evidence. Fortunately in this case, there were powerful insiders that believed that an outsider did this, and a grand jury that also agreed.

Another case that has always bothered me was the Scott Peterson case. This guy was sent down, but really without any evidence. This guy was a real ass, but there is no real evidence that he did this crime, and I have a strong feeling that the killer in this case is still out there, and because the case was "solved" it will never really be solved.

But I hope that justice is finally served in the Ramsey case.

[Dave1001]

Wow, if this pans out maybe OJ and Michael Jackson are innocent too.

[Loss Leader]

Another case that has always bothered me was the Scott Peterson case. This guy was sent down, but really without any evidence. This guy was a real ass, but there is no real evidence that he did this crime, and I have a strong feeling that the killer in this case is still out there, and because the case was "solved" it will never really be solved.


I've never really seen a murder case go to trial with more evidence of the defendant's guilt than Scott Peterson. Really, the totality of it is just astounding. Go to Court TV and read the entire case file. At this point, I think Scott's best chance is to claim Laci was destroyed in a controlled demolition.

[Big Les]

As to the "likeness", draw your own conclusions:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4123174.html

[Harlequin]

Here's another view of him, which looks much more like the psychic picture, but very little like the one linked to above. Odd. There's a new way for a psychic to be more sure of a "hit": draw a weird picture and then just find some angle from which the killer resembles your picture.

It appears to me that most of the resemblence is in the eyes, seeing that he has the same expression on his face here.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/LAW/08/17/ramsey.arrest/story.john.mark.karr.jpghttp://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/12a.jpg

[Dave1001]

Here's another view of him, which looks much more like the psychic picture, but very little like the one linked to above. Odd. There's a new way for a psychic to be more sure of a "hit": draw a weird picture and then just find some angle from which the killer resembles your picture.

It appears to me that most of the resemblence is in the eyes, seeing that he has the same expression on his face here.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/LAW/08/17/ramsey.arrest/story.john.mark.karr.jpghttp://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/12a.jpg

Let's give this one to the psychic. It may have been random chance, but she got his likeness in a statistically improbable way.

[TV's Frank]

Here's another view of him, which looks much more like the psychic picture, but very little like the one linked to above. Odd. There's a new way for a psychic to be more sure of a "hit": draw a weird picture and then just find some angle from which the killer resembles your picture.

It appears to me that most of the resemblence is in the eyes, seeing that he has the same expression on his face here.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/LAW/08/17/ramsey.arrest/story.john.mark.karr.jpghttp://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/12a.jpg

I don't think it looks anything like him. The nose is different, the eyes are at different spacings, the lips are different and farther from the nose, he has a heavier line between cheek and mouth, etc etc.

[geoman]

I don't think it looks anything like him. The nose is different, the eyes are at different spacings, the lips are different and farther from the nose, he has a heavier line between cheek and mouth, etc etc.

Well they both have 2 eyes above a nosey thing, with a mouth underneath. But otherwise I'm with Frank on this one.

[Anacoluthon64]

Occasionally I am moved to wonder about these psychics. It seems that often they are prone to not seeing the souls for the tombstones. The suggestion that the death of Dorothy Allison, the psychic who supplied such an intensely accurate likeness of the murderous perpetrator, prevented the subsequent divination of his exact whereabouts for the purpose of apprehension, simply smacks of imprecise cogitation. For what could be less trouble-free than requesting a further psychic to contact the spirit of the departed Ms Allison and thereby glean the required enlightenment? After all, if Ms Allison was capable of providing such minute details of the killer's facial features, asking for similar specificity in respect of his location can hardly be considered incompatible now, can it?

Two words, here, to the psychics: "Resource Management!"

'Luthon64

[RichardR]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/08/17/newt1.video.karr.jpg
http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/12a.jpg

The chin and mouth look the same. Nose is similar. Hairstyle is different, but that can change anyway, Eyes are similar; eye brows different. Shape of head is different. Age looks roughly correct.

[Starthinker]

I think my rendering looks much more like him. Do I get a hit? I drew this not 10, but 11 years ago!!!
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/LAW/08/17/ramsey.arrest/story.john.mark.karr.jpghttp://home.mchsi.com/~starthinker/images/jbrk.jpg

[Dave1001]

I think my rendering looks much more like him. Do I get a hit? I drew this not 10, but 11 years ago!!!
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/LAW/08/17/ramsey.arrest/story.john.mark.karr.jpghttp://home.mchsi.com/~starthinker/images/jbrk.jpg

Although I'm sure you're joking about it, no, your rendering looks much less like him than the psychics' did. It doesn't take anything away from criticizing psychics to acknowledge that this psychic's sketch looks improbably like the current suspect. That can happen due to pure chance.

[Luke T.]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/08/17/newt1.video.karr.jpg


How's he match up with this one?

[Luke T.]

How about this one?

[Luke T.]

These last two sketches were made by psychics.

For those who believe in the paranormal, how do they look when compared to Karr?

[Luke T.]

Another sketch made by a psychic. I think this one is the closest in resemblance to Karr yet. What say you?

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/08/17/newt1.video.karr.jpg

[Axenos]

How about this one?

Looks like Hitler... but I'm fairly certain he died before the murder...

[Loss Leader]

You know, the question shouldn't be how much the sketch looks like Karr. That basically begs for confirmation bias. A better question would be: How much does this sketch look like anybody? If you took the sketch and six pictures of relatively similar men (including Karr) out in the street, would the average person match the sketch to Karr?

Here's another question to which we know the answer: How much did the sketch help in aprehending this suspect? Did you guess "Not at all"?

And here's yet another question that's popping up today: Did Karr really do it? His ex-wife says he was with her in a different state the entire time. Maybe this guy is just nuts, wracked with guilt over his pedophelia and excited to confess to a famous crime.

[Azrael 5]

So who wrote the ransom note that was found in the house? ALways found that part of the scenario odd,seeing as the murdered kid was always in the house.

[RichardR]

How about this one?Do you have the source for those pictures?

[Luke T.]

Do you have the source for those pictures?

Yes. :D

[Luke T.]

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2006/08/16/PH2006081602043.jpg

Another photo of Karr.

[Luke T.]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/08/17/ujonbenet.jpg

Say, this one's really close to a psychic sketch. Look! They are both looking to the right!

[bjb]

Another factor is that there are several psychic sketches of the same suspect. If enough sketches are made, eventually one of them is going to be close. By the way, why don't all of the psychic sketches look the same?

[RemieV]

Another case that has always bothered me was the Scott Peterson case. This guy was sent down, but really without any evidence. This guy was a real ass, but there is no real evidence that he did this crime, and I have a strong feeling that the killer in this case is still out there, and because the case was "solved" it will never really be solved.

But I hope that justice is finally served in the Ramsey case.

I know this is off-topic, but they found Laci's blood and hair freaking everywhere. Not to mention the blood and the mop. Plus the receipt from parking at the dock. This is only a portion of the evidence, and it's pretty damning in and of itself.

Back on topic, the sketch really does sort of look like him. I find that really bizarre. And if you're going to pick six people off the street to compare it to, they would have to be six random people entirely (not six people of similar appearance) because we are working under the assumption that the psychic built the sketch from nothing, not from a loose description of someone.

[Luke T.]

Another factor is that there are several psychic sketches of the same suspect. If enough sketches are made, eventually one of them is going to be close. By the way, why don't all of the psychic sketches look the same?

As far as I know, there was only one psychic sketch ever made of JonBenet's killer.

The other sketches I have posted here were for other cases. :D :D :p :p

http://website.lineone.net/~enlightenment/coral_polge.htm

http://www.elizabethbaron.com/stories_rapist.htm

http://www.everetthealthcare.com/ce-crime.htm

[WagnerianDisciple]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/12a.jpg[/qimg]

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

So the psychics got their man (okie dokie smokey). He really blabbed about it but there seems to be something about the guy wanting to get caught. He will be the most reviled man in America. Really feel for the family now and how this has played out on them. Any more psychic crime solutions out there?

WD

[FFed]

I'll wait for the DNA tests before jumping to conclusions. This guy might just be one of those that confess to crimes without doing it.

Didn't Sylvia Browne "predict" that the case would never be solved and the killer was a women? I seem to remember her saying that some time ago.

[Stellafane]

Here's another view of him, which looks much more like the psychic picture, but very little like the one linked to above. Odd. There's a new way for a psychic to be more sure of a "hit": draw a weird picture and then just find some angle from which the killer resembles your picture.

It appears to me that most of the resemblence is in the eyes, seeing that he has the same expression on his face here.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/LAW/08/17/ramsey.arrest/story.john.mark.karr.jpghttp://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/12a.jpg

Few people detest psychics more than I. But however she did it, I have to admit the psychic's drawing is actually pretty close to the suspect, at least to my untrained eye. Then again, both have a pretty generic, white-bread look.

[thaiboxerken]

Let's give this one to the psychic. It may have been random chance, but she got his likeness in a statistically improbable way.

Not improbable at all. She simply described a thin, caucasian male. That sketch could be likened to millions of men.

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

I'll wait for the DNA tests before jumping to conclusions. This guy might just be one of those that confess to crimes without doing it.

Didn't Sylvia Browne "predict" that the case would never be solved and the killer was a women? I seem to remember her saying that some time ago.
She did??

Sorry folks, nothing to see here. This is not our man!

;)

[RichardR]

Another factor is that there are several psychic sketches of the same suspect. If enough sketches are made, eventually one of them is going to be close. By the way, why don't all of the psychic sketches look the same?I knew you were going to say that.

[RichardR]

As far as I know, there was only one psychic sketch ever made of JonBenet's killer.

The other sketches I have posted here were for other cases. :D :D :p :p

http://website.lineone.net/~enlightenment/coral_polge.htm (http://website.lineone.net/%7Eenlightenment/coral_polge.htm)

http://www.elizabethbaron.com/stories_rapist.htm

http://www.everetthealthcare.com/ce-crime.htmGood one. Of course I wasn't fooled - that's why I asked for the links.






Actually, you got me. Good one - I might steal the idea for a blog entry on this.

[RichardR]

Didn't Sylvia Browne "predict" that the case would never be solved and the killer was a women? I seem to remember her saying that some time ago.I haven't been able to find that on her site. I'd be interested in the link if anyone has it.

btw regarding Sylvia, see this clip (http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/08/montel-gave-sylvia-enough-rope.html).

[Loss Leader]

Let's give this one to the psychic. It may have been random chance, but she got his likeness in a statistically improbable way.


Give whatever you want to this psychics, I don't think this guy did it.

[RichardR]

Give whatever you want to this psychics, I don't think this guy did it.What makes you think that?

[FFed]

I am just going by what Sylvia said from memory. With all the psychics on TV these days it could have been someone else, but I think it was her. I will try and google around and see if I can find anything on her and the case. Being this high profile surely someone must have asked her.

[Starthinker]

What makes you think that?


Latest reports are fishy. Ex says he was in another state etc. etc..

[politas]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/08/17/newt1.video.karr.jpg
http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/12a.jpg

The chin and mouth look the same. Nose is similar. Hairstyle is different, but that can change anyway, Eyes are similar; eye brows different. Shape of head is different. Age looks roughly correct.

Actually, the suspect's lips are much fuller than the sketch, the sketch's chin doesn't jut out as much, and the the nostrils are less arched. So the mouth, chin and nose are different, too. The shape of the eyes is really the only thing that matches. And that's not much.

[bjb]

His confession is starting to look questionable:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060817/ap_on_re_us/jonbenet_ramsey_69

[Loss Leader]

What makes you think that?

He seems to have been obsessed with the case, to have communicated with the family, to have written about it extensively in college and to have been in a different state when the crime was committed. He's turning out to look less like a goober and more like a nut.

[Stellafane]

CrimeLibrary seems to think it's quite likely he's the wrong guy:

www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0806/1703_ramsey_arrest_john_karr.html

Nuts...I really would like to see justice served here, whatever it may be.

[RichardR]

He seems to have been obsessed with the case, to have communicated with the family, to have written about it extensively in college and to have been in a different state when the crime was committed. He's turning out to look more like a goober and less like a nut.Thanks. Yes, I was wondering about that - especially his confession. Time will tell, but I agree it doesn't look too certain as of now.

[Azrael 5]

As he never mentioned the ransom note-which I mentioned earlier-then its safe to assume he is a nut! How many killers confess prior to arrest,really?
Probably wanted a free ride back to US.

[WagnerianDisciple]

Latest reports are fishy. Ex says he was in another state etc. etc..

Okay - the fish stories. This guy is kind of creepy - but the facts don't match up.

"They either have a miss or a match on the DNA," former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman said. "If it's a miss, the prosecution has serious problems. If it's a match, then it's game, set and match for this case. Couple the DNA with the kooky confession and it's enough for most people to convict."

Time to be skeptical? A strange case indeed.

WD

[JamesM]

Have we ascertained the whereabouts of Alex Kapranos (http://www.couplandesque.net/culture/alexdrawing.gif) of Franz Ferdinand on the night in question yet?

[roger]

Hmm, a CNN breaking news email just said that he mentioned details about the body that had not been released to the public.

ETA: link (http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/18/karr.questions/index.html)

[Loss Leader]

"They either have a miss or a match on the DNA," former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman said.

You know, not to be crude but there was no foreign DNA recovered from JonBenet's body.

[sophia8]

Hmm, a CNN breaking news email just said that he mentioned details about the body that had not been released to the public.
How can the police be certain that some information hasn't been released? People talk and gossip, journalists pick up things and publish them.
I remember when the Yorkshire Ripper investigation was completely derailed (allowing the killer to murder more women) by a tape made by a man claiming to be the Ripper;the accompanying letter mentioned a detail of one of the murders that was thought to have been kept secret, when it had actually been published in a small-circulation regional newspaper.
Like Loss Leader said, he's been obsessed with the case for years, so could easily have picked up some little bit of information that wasn't wdely known.

[Skeptic Guy]

I'll wait for the DNA tests before jumping to conclusions. This guy might just be one of those that confess to crimes without doing it.

Didn't Sylvia Browne "predict" that the case would never be solved and the killer was a women? I seem to remember her saying that some time ago.

The more that I hear on the news, the less I think he did it. I think he is just some sick pedophile that had a infatuation with Jon Benet. He was living in Georgia at the time of the murder. I guess he could have traveled to Colorado, but I am not sure. We'll have to wait for the DNA match to come back. But that didn't work with OJ though, did it?

[Skeptic Guy]

You know, not to be crude but there was no foreign DNA recovered from JonBenet's body.

I thought I heard on a news show yesterday that they had found "male DNA".

[Skeptic Guy]

How about this one?


Wait, that's William Powell from the "Thin Man" movies! Man, I thought he was dead. Maybe the psychic got his/her wires crossed on "the other side".

[Loss Leader]

You know, not to be crude but there was no foreign DNA recovered from JonBenet's body.

I thought I heard on a news show yesterday that they had found "male DNA".

There was DNA at the crime scene but none was recovered from, ahem, inside the victim. So, that means any DNA match just shows the person was there at some time, not that he was the killer.

[politas]

There was DNA at the crime scene but none was recovered from, ahem, inside the victim. So, that means any DNA match just shows the person was there at some time, not that he was the killer.

Yes, but a match to that combined with a confession would probably lead to a conviction. Most of the talk about him not being guilty is based on him not being in the same state, thus lacking opportunity. If the DNA evidence places him at the scene, then the ex's testimony of him being in another state must be wrong.

[Loss Leader]

Yes, but a match to that combined with a confession would probably lead to a conviction. Most of the talk about him not being guilty is based on him not being in the same state, thus lacking opportunity. If the DNA evidence places him at the scene, then the ex's testimony of him being in another state must be wrong.

A DNA match would be a very interesting piece of evidence. I, however, am betting that this guy didn't do it. Things are, as they say, getting curiouser and curiouser. Okay, one fictional girl said it but that still has to count for something.

[Azrael 5]

My money's still on the parents.I have no evidence to back this up whatsoever but I can't think for myself and am following general opinion from time of the murder. :D
Plus if this guy did it then surely his handwriting will match the ransom note found,if not then he either had an accomplice or things are getting even more "curiouser and curiouser".

[Dogbreath]

I just watched the DVD from TAM3 where someone asked Joe Nickell about this case. He said that those who examined the ransom note said it most likely was in the mother's hand attempting to disguise it. Joe said he did not think the mother or the father did it. He then asked who else does that leave? I got the impression it was someone from within the household. As soon as I heard about this guy, I thought now wait a minute.

[sophia8]

There was DNA at the crime scene but none was recovered from, ahem, inside the victim. It was under her fingernails - probably from scratching whoever was strangling her. She wan't raped.
Clearly, the DNA didn't match anyone the police had at the time, or there would have been an arrest.
I don't believe it was the parents. OK, they were pretty wierd, moving the body and praying to Jesus over it. But that just means they'e weird, not killers.
And anyone who suspects that her father harboured some kind of paedophile feelings because he was encouraging her to be a professional child beauty queen should remember that both Jonbenet's mother and grandmother were child and adult beauty queens - it was the family profession, and their daughter was simply following in Mom's and Grandmom's high-heeled, well-schooled dancesteps.

[thaiboxerken]

Sophia, are you claiming that some people actually see these child beauty contests as "cute" and not "sexually arousing?"

[Azrael 5]

The parents did themselves no favours as I recall,by leaving town,refusing to co-operate with police etc.I read a book about the crime a few years ago,and it was avery big house,lots of rooms etc.Whats the odds on a stranger breaking in and finding JonBenet's bedroom?

[soulhill]

Let's give this one to the psychic. It may have been random chance, but she got his likeness in a statistically improbable way.

I have to agree. The sketch would be passible even for an eye witness.

At the very least, the sketch is close enough to make me wonder if she was given information, either in the form of a profile or if there were reports or descriptions of this person that she was privy to.

I do think it is especially important for us, as skeptics, not to stumble over ourselves to dismiss any resemblance. This does not mean that psychic powers were involved, but if we can't admit the obvious because it does not fit our expected outcome - that's bad science.

[Loss Leader]

IAt the very least, the sketch is close enough to make me wonder if she was given information, either in the form of a profile or if there were reports or descriptions of this person that she was privy to.


Of course she had a profile. Everyone knows the wack-job pedophile serial-killer profile - white man, mid-thirties, outcast, neat, trim, quiet. I mean, just get a mug shot of Jeffrey Dahmer and draw him. In fact, if I could post links, I'd put up pics of Dahmer and the JonBenet sketch side-by-side. It looks much more like him than like Karr. At least the hair's right.

And don't tell me not all serial killers fit the profile. I know that. But the psychic was playing the odds and drawing the most likely composite.

And I still think Karr didn't do it.

[soulhill]

Of course she had a profile. Everyone knows the wack-job pedophile serial-killer profile - white man, mid-thirties, outcast, neat, trim, quiet. I mean, just get a mug shot of Jeffrey Dahmer and draw him. In fact, if I could post links, I'd put up pics of Dahmer and the JonBenet sketch side-by-side. It looks much more like him than like Karr. At least the hair's right.

And don't tell me not all serial killers fit the profile. I know that. But the psychic was playing the odds and drawing the most likely composite.

And I still think Karr didn't do it.

Yes, she was playing the odds. No, Dahmer does not match the sketch nearly was well. Do we need to do a geometric analysis in order to confirm?

[politas]

Sophia, are you claiming that some people actually see these child beauty contests as "cute" and not "sexually arousing?"

To reverse that, are you implying that every adult involved in these competitions is a pedophile?

I'm not claiming any knowledge in the area myself, never having been even close to any of them. I'm not sure they even exist in Australia.

[Loss Leader]

Edit: duplicate.

[Loss Leader]

Yes, she was playing the odds. No, Dahmer does not match the sketch nearly was well. Do we need to do a geometric analysis in order to confirm?

Here's the JonBenet sketch:

http://images.news14.com/media/2006/8/17/images/02____psychic_sketch_ramseycase.jpg

And here's Jeffrey Dahmer:

http://maximoreira.no.sapo.pt/Jeffrey%20Dahmer.jpg

[thaiboxerken]

To reverse that, are you implying that every adult involved in these competitions is a pedophile?

I'm not claiming any knowledge in the area myself, never having been even close to any of them. I'm not sure they even exist in Australia.

I guess my sarcastic tone didn't come out in the post. I am pretty sure that most people involved in child-beauty contests do so for the same reason people are involved in pet-beauty contests, because it's cute.

[politas]

Here's the JonBenet sketch:
And here's Jeffrey Dahmer:

Dahmer is certainly a worse match. very few of the features match. Dahmer's chin is shorter, his forehead is different, his eyes are different, his ears are wrong, his hair recedes less, and his mouth is wider.

[Loss Leader]

Dahmer is certainly a worse match. very few of the features match. Dahmer's chin is shorter, his forehead is different, his eyes are different, his ears are wrong, his hair recedes less, and his mouth is wider.

I disagree. I think Dahmer looks more like the sketch than Karr.

And I still don't think Karr did it.

[Hellbound]

It was under her fingernails - probably from scratching whoever was strangling her. She wan't raped.
Clearly, the DNA didn't match anyone the police had at the time, or there would have been an arrest.

Just to add to this, there were also two drops of blood found on her underwear, that matched the tissue under the fingernails. These were discovered several years after the initial testing. The original testing had checked one area of blood, then assumed all of it was the same.

[Azrael 5]

I also think it looks more like Dahmer,the little pout(cmplete with dimple chin),wide nose,hair(okay parting is on opposite side but still..)

I guess we will know soon enough if Karr is the one,altough I doubt it.When hearing people were doubting his story he demanded another press conference.Attention seeking weirdo.

[politas]

I disagree. I think Dahmer looks more like the sketch than Karr.

And I still don't think Karr did it.

I already listed the ways Karr doesn't match that sketch. Karr's eyes are the same shape as the sketch, and that's all. Dahmer's hair in that one photo looks like the sketch, but otherwise, it's not a very good likeness. Dahmer's hair in other photos, including his mug shot, is very different.

The sketch is not a good match for either Karr or Dahmer, but it matches Karr slightly better than Dahmer.

As a sketch produced from an eyewitness working with a police artist, both Dahmer and Karr would be close enough to be under consideration, but that's pretty low on the scale of evidence. Eyewitnesses are notoriously inaccurate.

The sketch matches the typical profile, and both Dahmer and Karr fit that profile.

[Loss Leader]

The sketch matches the typical profile, and both Dahmer and Karr fit that profile.

I am taking this as complete and utter support of my position because, basically, I have a cold and I feel depressed because I wanted to go see a movie tonight and I need a win right now.

[politas]

I am taking this as complete and utter support of my position because, basically, I have a cold and I feel depressed because I wanted to go see a movie tonight and I need a win right now.Indeed, I was just using my limited artistic abilities to augment your argument. I am a stickler for accuracy, though.

[Pyrrho]

The psychic sketches look astoundingly like D. B. Cooper.

http://www.aero.com/publications/parachutes/9602/images/fbipostr.gif

http://www.columbian.com/history/profiles/images/dbcooper.jpg

*cough* Implied access *cough*

(Note: D. B. Cooper is not MiB. Might have been Agent Smith, though. http://www.billmon.org/archives/agent%20smith.gif)

[Loss Leader]

The psychic sketches look astoundingly like D. B. Cooper.

That may be the single greatest post of all time.

[Pyrrho]

Makes sense in a weird memetic way, doesn't it? Psychic delves into their inner self for an image of a fugitive criminal and comes up with an image of a fugitive criminal that's already been stored in their memory.

They should maybe try names next time, and addresses and such. You know...real clues.

[Pyrrho]

The psychic sketch also bears remarkable resemblance to a "grey" alien face layout.

http://www.ctlsoftware.co.uk/alien18.gif

There was an article in SKEPTIC a while back about the classic "gray alien" face being possibly from our earliest memories of face recognition in infancy.

http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/featured_articles/v11n4_alien_faces.html

[Loss Leader]

The psychic sketch also bears remarkable resemblance to a "grey" alien face layout.

http://www.ctlsoftware.co.uk/alien18.gif

There was an article in SKEPTIC a while back about the classic "gray alien" face being possibly from our earliest memories of face recognition in infancy.

http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/featured_articles/v11n4_alien_faces.html

A. Cool.

B. Now I'm gonna have nightmares.

[Loss Leader]

From Reuters: JonBenet Murder Suspect's DNA Doesn't Match (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060828/us_nm/crime_jonbenet_dna_dc_1)


I told you he wasn't the guy.

[Azrael 5]

From Reuters: JonBenet Murder Suspect's DNA Doesn't Match (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060828/us_nm/crime_jonbenet_dna_dc_1)


I told you he wasn't the guy.

So did I.Just seen this on Sky News also.Oh how are the psychics going to live this down? :rolleyes:

[JamesM]

From a local newspaper report back when Karr was first arrested (http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk1MjEmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY5NzcxOTgmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXky):

People laughed at the Nutley psychic's description, as attention focused on the little girl's parents. They aren't laughing now.
I look forward to the 'Er, you can all go back to laughing now' follow-up story.

[Goshawk]

However, y'all realize, of course, that this means that the original sketch by psychic Dorothy Allison is back in the running--it...could be!...the killer. :woowoo

Orrrr...maybe not.

She said drily.

[WagnerianDisciple]

He's a live man walking. But WHY did he go through all of this? He still is a sex offender and quite the unusual guy - who SHOULD be watched. Everyone was onto this one. Good read JREFers.

WD

[Loss Leader]

From a local newspaper report back when Karr was first arrested (http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk1MjEmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY5NzcxOTgmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXky):


I look forward to the 'Er, you can all go back to laughing now' follow-up story.


I bookmarked it and I will write the reporter tomorrow.

[pgwenthold]

He's a live man walking. But WHY did he go through all of this?

Free business class airtravel from Thailand?

[politas]

Free business class airtravel from Thailand?

No one has claimed he isn't an idiot.

[WagnerianDisciple]

No one has claimed he isn't an idiot.

True enough except he is being extradited to Cali now for child porn charges - so he gets the frequent flyer miles but the tradeoff may be harsh.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

True enough except he is being extradited to Cali now for child porn charges - so he gets the frequent flyer miles but the tradeoff may be harsh.

Depending on what would have happened to him in Thailand. Think the early reports said he was under investigation for a separate sex crime when arrested - maybe fancied an American jail more than a Thai one?

[Loss Leader]

Depending on what would have happened to him in Thailand. Think the early reports said he was under investigation for a separate sex crime when arrested - maybe fancied an American jail more than a Thai one?


Except that his wacky emails to the journalism professor started months and months earlier.

[Number Six]

Add one more to the list that the Ramsey killer sketch looks like.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/LAW/08/31/jeffs.arrest.ap/newt1.04.jeffs.pool.jpg

[Number Six]

Is there a way to put five pictures side by side up on a website somewhere (other than this one)? What I'd like to do is post Dahmer, D.B. Cooper, Warren Jeffs, Mark Karr and the psychic sketch side by side. Someone I work with was all amazed at how close the sketch was at Karr so I'm thinking that if I could show her all those pictures together it might make an impression since all those other people are famous and also look as much or more like the sketch as does Karr.

[The_Fire]

I'm not sure how used you are to using html coding, but you could combine the photos into one picture, using your favorite picture treatment software, in the setup you want and then host it on something like imageshack.
If you want to create a homepage, and keep the coding simple, you'll need to do a table.
What you need to do is put this in your homepage:

<table border='1px' padding='5px' (>)
<tr(>)<td(>)
picurl 1
</td(>)<td(>)
picurl2
</td(>)<td(>)
picurl3
</td(>)<td(>)
picurl4
</td(>)<td(>)
picurl5
</td(>)<td(>)
</table(>)

Remove the () to make it work. Notice that border and padding controls the border between cells and how much air is between the border and the picture.

HOpe that helped.

[politas]

Add one more to the list that the Ramsey killer sketch looks like.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/LAW/08/31/jeffs.arrest.ap/newt1.04.jeffs.pool.jpg

You're kidding me. His chin is completely wrong.

[Number Six]

When I said "looks like" I meant to say "looks like as much as does Mark Karr."

[Loss Leader]

When I said "looks like" I meant to say "looks like as much as does Mark Karr."


But you forgot to add that we have no reason to suspect this guy in the JonBenet case which means that we lack a confirmation bias. So, even if he looked exactly like the sketch, we have no psychological predisposition to see a resemblance.

[Alareth]

Depending on what would have happened to him in Thailand. Think the early reports said he was under investigation for a separate sex crime when arrested - maybe fancied an American jail more than a Thai one?

Wait ... When did Thailand get laws regarding sex? All my Navy buddies must have been lying about shore leave ;)

[Tamazon]

Posted this in another thread but this one seems to be more popular.

From the latest e-mail I got from CSICOP. Looks A LOT less alike now! The author uses "forensic caricaturing" to emphasize the pictures.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2811&thumb=1&d=1156486567 (http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2811&d=1156486567)

[bjb]

That caricature brings up an important point. Artists, beauticians, etc. recognize several types of face shapes, square, round, heart-shaped, and so on. Astrologers will sometimes use face-shapes in their readings:

http://www.astrology.com.au/face/shapes.asp

Even by astrologist standards, the psychic drawing is wrong. It has a heart-shaped or triangular face while Mark Karr has an oblong face. You can see that the forensic caricature starts with a slight exagguration of the basic face shape and goes on from there.