Is Atheisism/Evolution/Darwinism a faith

[Yahweh]

According to my good friend dictionary.com, faith can be defined as "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence". Thats why I would not call Darwinism a faith. But any good philosopher knows that supplying an anwer to a question who's final answer is not known is faith.

Evolution has logical proof behind it as well as physical material evidence, so how could anyone doubt it... because whether it is the correct answer is not known.

Atheism is classically defined as a faith. Its no less a faith then someone who believes in an afterlife. Atheism does have the benefit of the doubt because in most peoples mind, science is what drives atheism. Theres not a single fact from a good science book that says "Yeah, heaven exists". Its the fact that no one really knows exactly what happens when you die that Atheism remains a faith, yet a well founded plausible scientific faith. (Scientific faith... is that an oxymoron).

Belief in an afterlife has no more scientific proof behind than belief that one day invisible pirates will erupt from beneath the earth and kill you.

If you have ever taken the time to question it, you realize that a person with inner convictions that make them believe in God, or Angels (or as I like to call them, Pixies), or Heaven is no more to the point than a paranoid schizophrenic who has delusions that cameras are recording him all the time. Both of those people have absolutely no scientific basis for believing either of those things, yet they do. Its all has to do with their inner convictions, in other words it all has to do with their faith in something.

Question: Is Atheism a faith or not? If not, why not? If so, does that make belief in Athesim just as well founded as belief in Pixies?

[Dymanic]

Is Atheism a faith?

Beats me.

I do know this though. Titles that include really long words like 'Atheisism/Evolution/Darwinism' screw up the front page of the forum, pushing the poster's names off to the right, so you have to scroll over to see them. Names like 'ManfredVonRichtofen' do the same thing.

[Yahweh]

Oh my bad... I didnt think that a long title would push the names... perhaps I should have used spaces or just less words

[Aquila_ka_Hecate]

No.

[Seismosaurus]

The vast majority of atheists I've met define atheism as "lacking belief in a god or gods", rather than actively believing that a god or gods does not exist. Given this, atheism is not a faith.

Most atheists who would state that they actively believe that god exists do not do so as a matter of faith - rather, they are convinced that there is logical argument and/or evidence that god does not exist. So even these people would not consider atheism a faith.

[Aquila_ka_Hecate]

Thanks, Seismoaurus.

I get irritable and grumpy, irrationally so, when I read for the umpteenth time the question of wether atheism is a faith or not.

Consider trotting out the old "Is baldness a hair colour?" argument; consider pointing out that the word itself a-theism gives one a clue, then thin "No, fork that.I'm tired of this already".

It's nice that some people still have the gentle inclination to correct this.

Grumpy Old Atheist Terri

[roger]

Originally posted by Yahweh
Evolution has logical proof behind it as well as physical material evidence, so how could anyone doubt it... because whether it is the correct answer is not known.
Evolution has such a proponderance of evidence that it is now known to be a fact. Exactly how evolution works remains a theory. talkorigins.org explains this, and provides references to back up the claim. But this is not the thrust of your argument, so let's just leave it here so your thread is not hijacked.

Atheism is classically defined as a faith.
Cite, please. According to dictionary.com, from which you got the definition of faith, atheism is the "disbelief" in God.

Disbelief means no belief, disbelief does not mean belief in another guise.

To step away from the hairsplitting dictionary definitions, faith is usually applied to a positive claim about something w/ no evidence. "I think you have 97 heads", when I look at you and plainly see 1 head, could be characterized as faith.

"I think you don't have 97 heads" when when I look at you and plainly see 1 head, or when I email you on here w/ a basic knowledge of human anatomy, cannot be characterized as faith.

[Jet Grind]

Atheism is not a faith. Belief without proof or material evidence is not the same as nonbelief due to the lack of such.

[Dancing David]

I believe that i don't believe in god, I have faith that there is nogod, I have yet to see proof of god.

It's all in how you set up the words.

And no atheism is not a faith, thats just a dodge that the superstitious use to say' you are the same as me."

[Skeptical Greg]

This question shows up every few weeks, as does the best answer...

If Atheism is a faith/religion, then not caring crap about tennis is a sport...:D

[neutrino_cannon]

Why are you putting them in the same boat? Evolutionary theory is not exclusive of theistic world views, as a quick check over at talkorigins.org will show (they're really fond of saying that). Furthermore evolutionary theory does not mean darwinism ipso facto. You might subscribe to a somewhat different view on the matter such as punctuated equilibrium, and if you happen to be a creationist strawman, neo-darwinism, whatever the heck that is.

Saying that evolution is a faith is like saying gravity is a faith. Both books full of evidence and musings thick enough to smash a decent sized arrangement of citrous fruit. You could say that atheism is a faith, in some cases, but in others it is not, as in the case of a universal view based purely on what has been observed.

But atheism is not always saddled with evolutionary theory, and the reverse is certainly not true either. Furthermore one of the two items pertains to the existance of God while the other two pertain only to the phylogenic histories of organisms (not even their ultimate origins!). It's like asking whether or not mormanism/political activism/polygamy is a faith or not.

[Seismosaurus]

Originally posted by Aquila_ka_Hecate
Thanks, Seismoaurus.

I get irritable and grumpy, irrationally so, when I read for the umpteenth time the question of wether atheism is a faith or not.

Heh, I hang out on alt.atheism, so I've had this discussion about a thousand times. :D

[rustypouch]

I do not think atheism is a faith. The only thing atheists agree on is the lack of deities or supernatural forces. Beyond that, just about anything goes, and it varies according to the individual.

[uneasy]

Atheists can be dogmatic, and I dislike dogmatism more than faith.

[Yahzi]

one day invisible pirates will erupt from beneath the earth and kill you
Crap... now everytime I look at the back yard, I get nervous.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Yahzi

Crap... now everytime I look at the back yard, I get nervous.

don't worry. this stone that i have keeps the invisible pirates from erupting from the earth.

[jj]

I conclude, based on the evidence, that there is no need to hypothesize a "god being".

Exactly HOW is this a faith?

[Segnosaur]

Whether you consider atheism a 'faith' or not may depend on how you treat 'negative' evidence.

For example, I do not think that psychics or dowsers work, because any 'test' that they have taken has showed them to fail. Now, is that 'faith'? Logically, you can't prove a negative; however, if enough attempts to prove something have resulted in repated failures, then at some point you can (relatively safely) assume "this does not exist".

How does that compare with atheism and god? Well, athiesm is the belief that there is no god or gods. Pretty much every possible 'test' for god has failed. For example, nobody has shown that prayer is effective, or that 'micracles' really happen (apart from anecdotes, but that's not really 'scientific' proof), or that a god is necessary for the universe/life to exist as it is.

So, while 'logically' all these failures do not prove that god does not exist, enough have them have occured to make me assume that there is no deity.

[jj]

Originally posted by Segnosaur
Well, athiesm is the belief that there is no god or gods.

Not to pick nits here, but them I an athiest?

I conclude, as I said above, based on the utter lack of evidence, that there is no need to invent the concept of a god-being.

If there was evidence, I'd feel differently.

Is my conclusion a belief? (Well, beyond the necessary rejection of tautological solipcism, at least.)

Certainly this is partially a semantic issue, but there is some need for such issues, I think.

One of the reasons that I don't regard athiesm as a faith is that, having "no belief" as opposed to a belief, we don't tend to build churches and worship "Nothing", but then again, is faith purely an acceptance of something that can not be demonstrated by evidence, or is it more?

[KelvinG]

I have found that it is usually believers who try and claim that atheism is a "faith" in a sad attempt to get a rise out of us atheists.
Apparently, if they can peg atheism as a faith, then they have someone proved it is no different than a "religion."
It's a ridiculous argument, borne from spite and anger, as far as I can tell.

[i]Originally posted by jj
One of the reasons that I don't regard athiesm as a faith is that, having "no belief" as opposed to a belief, we don't tend to build churches and worship "Nothing", but then again, is faith purely an acceptance of something that can not be demonstrated by evidence, or is it more? [/B]

Irrelevant. Most religious people feel that every location and group of fellow believers is a 'Church', and that one doesn't solely need a wooden framed structure to have worship.

Also, there are secular humanism camps, secular humanism journals devoted to exploring alternatives to religion, secular humanism organizations that have tax except status, they have their own leaders, their own manifesto, and some atheist organizations even publish 'non-tracts'.

Similar.

But different.

-Who

[Martin]

But are all atheists secular humanists?

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Martinm
But are all atheists secular humanists?
I prefer to think of myself as a secular inhumanist.

[Jet Grind]

Originally posted by Martinm
are all atheists secular humanists?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: You will find that most atheists subscribe to some form of humanism. The only possible historical exception I can think of is Nietzsche. The basic tenet of humanism is that humans are the most intelligent specimens with which we can communicate, so they should be looked to, instead of religion, for solving the problems we face. Most atheists, besides people like Nietzsche, believe this.

[Darwin]

I cannot honestly say what "darwinism" should be said of.
"Traditional" way to interpret evolutionary theory and related phenomena comes closest.

Originally posted by Martinm
But are all atheists secular humanists?

A very large percentage.

-Who

[justsaygnosis]

Like many specialized studies, a discipline, a traditonal school of thought perhaps a consensus; a faith....nah!

[Bentspoon]

Irrelevant. Most religious people feel that every location and group of fellow believers is a 'Church', and that one doesn't solely need a wooden framed structure to have worship

I think you missed the argument for the specifics: Church smurch, alter, schmalter.

Forget the semantics. If one worships a god, then one does something to worship a god. By that I mean, you (any you: not necessarily Whodini) go to church, you read the good word periodically, you light candles, share communion, take pilgrimages - have I hit anything yet. You pray periodically, you do good deeds in his name, you listen to religious music

those who believe, how do you worship.

I don't know - for those of you who believe, you do something to "worship". Otherwise the whole thing is just words isn't it. If you do not worship your god or worship in your faith then you simply do not believe.

I do not worship atheism. This is the key to these kinds of questions. I do not light candles, do not take pilgimages. There is no good book of atheism, no altar, no entity, not even the slightest superstition about it. I don't gather with other atheists for moral support and comfort under the roof of the church of atheism.

I do not worship and there is no way around this. Believers worship and non believers do not. That is the fundamental difference and why describing atheism as a faith or a religion is a fallacy.

Bentspoon