Is lying druing war a bad thing

[SRW]

In 1943 the German Air force used a guided missile to sink and Indian Troop ship caring over 1800 US solders, 1,100 some died from the attack. The British governments and US lied about this to the world, and as a result the Germans scraped their guided missile program. They never found out that the attack was successful. So the lie may have saved countless lives. So is it justifiable for a government to lie to its own citizens during a war?

[aerocontrols]

Quite a bit of the time.

The lies about the Patriot missile intercepts in the first Gulf war had the same goal - deter Hussein from launching by claiming that he wasn't being successful.

When the truth came out after the war, people were very upset. Some still are.

[Jon_in_london]

Its very bad to be lying in a war. Should be getting up and putting down some fire, not lying on your arse.

[Dancing David]

OOOOH, this should really be in the R&P forum:

Lying during warfare is part of warfare going back before the whole Trojan rabbit gambit.

However what if the goal of lying about the Patriot missles is to ensure the continued funding of a program that should be scrubbed?

It would seem the intent behind the lie would then have to be considered.

[Crossbow]

There are many bad things that occur during a war, and the lies told by both sides are just one of those things.

That is why war is something to be avoided.

[Frostbite]

I think lying during war is a vital part, especially when facing a superior adversary. No doubt Saddam Hussein was lying to his people about fighting off US and UK troups until the day when Baghdad was taken. He didn't play martyr.

[Jon_in_london]

Seriously though, I think lying during war is really essential.
Lying to your citizens to justify provoking a war is not.

Right at the beginning of WW1, HMS Audacious- Our latest & greatest battleship hit a mine in the Irish sea and sunk. They kept the bit about the mine secret for the rest of the war to avoid encouraging the Germans from mining the whole place.

Again, if the British public had been told the truth between 1940-1941 we probably would have just said "stuff it, there isnt really any point then is there?" Instead, Churchill gave us a bunch of nonsense about fighting them on the beaches and the British Empire lasting a thousand years and we got through.

So its not just justified. Youd be an arse not to.

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Is misdirection just another word for lying? Misdirection has been effective in military applications.

Having the enemy thinking you are building up in one area so they focus there and then attacking them on a flank to get the element of surprise.

Convincing the enemy that you are weak when you are strong.

or Convincing the enemy that you are strong when you are week. (Tsun Tzu, Art of War kind of strategy and tactics.)

Consider that Jason Maskelyne was employed with other artists by the British Forces and used their skills in the North Africa theatre (The Magic Gang).


For example, using several rail cars and placing them in Harbours so that they appear to be several submarines. The enemy thinks the subs are docked, meanwhile the real subs are performing a mission.

[The Fool]

Yep, lying in a war is not only acceptable...I would say that those involved were culpable if they didn't.

However, lets take USA V Iraq II as an example. I would not call this a war. It was a disciplinary action. The USA decided to take out Saddam, there was never a shadow of a doubt about the outcome. It was a bit like Mike Tyson V me...... I think it would be pointless for mike to bother lying about why he punched me unconcious. Why does GWB not just say "stuff you all, we decided to do it and we did it". Whats with all this WMD rubbish? Its pointless. The USA does not care if Saddam deserved it or not ( I think he did) but why oh why does GWB need to crap on about WMD? He is the worlds biggest holder of WMD...George, for Ed's sake just shut up.......its all over, why not just drop the "honest they did have em" stuff.

[Ed]

Truth is the first casualty of war.

I forget who said it

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Ed
Truth is the first casualty of war.

I forget who said it

Casualties are the first truth of war
-Me.

[Skeptic]

It depends on the circumstances. However, it is sometimes justified. One of the greatest--if not THE greatest--defenders of freedom in human history, Winston Churchill, once said (rightly): "In wartime, truth is so precious is must be constantly surrounded by a bodyguard of lies."

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by SRW
In 1943 the German Air force used a guided missile to sink and Indian Troop ship caring over 1800 US solders, 1,100 some died from the attack. The British governments and US lied about this to the world, and as a result the Germans scraped their guided missile program. They never found out that the attack was successful. So the lie may have saved countless lives. So is it justifiable for a government to lie to its own citizens during a war?

Good question...and to answer it: Yes, absolutely.

[Kodiak]

After the invasion and capture of Wake Island, the US and her allies kept secret for several years the fact that the Japanese invaders executed several hundred soldiers and civilians after they were captured defending the island.