Who killed Steve Irwin?

[American]

Steve Irwin's death is tragic, but it raises a number of questions:


- Why did the cameraman take so long to bring Steve back to the surface?

- Why did the crew not act immediately to revive Steve? Why did they not call for help when they knew that Steve was injured?

- Why is the Australian diving industry left so unregulated? Who ever sold them their equipment should be held accountable since the dangers of diving have been known for years.

- Why was Steve not wearing body armor, a proven protection against violent Sting Ray attacks?



In the wake of this tragedy, legislation must be written to prevent more such catastrophes. Regulations need to enforced with stiff penalties for violators. Parliament should immediately appoint an independent blue ribbon commission to investigate what really happened to Steve Irwin.

Government's job is to protect its weakest citizens. Today, it failed.

[Pardalis]

What a completely useless thread.

[American]

What a completely useless thread.

That does NOT look like a Sting Ray wound to me.

Sting Rays are peaceful creatures, they don't attack humans.

[tkingdoll]

It wasn't a stingray, that's why. It was a bull ray.

*thanks to Jeff Wagg for this clarification.

[American]

It wasn't a stingray, that's why. It was a bull ray.


The story keeps changing...... will we ever know the truth? :confused:

[WildCat]

I sure haven't seen a realistice explanation for his death.

[Gravy]

It all comes back to the Jewfish (http://www.fishing-boating.com/articles/gamefish/jewfish.htm).

[tkingdoll]

The story keeps changing...... will we ever know the truth? :confused:

No it doesn't. It's always been a bull ray.

Perhaps it was a government-trained bull ray?

[Brainache]

Was that a 3" barb on a 4' bullray?

[Mr. Skinny]

I sure haven't seen a realistice explanation for his death.
He became trapped underneath a concrete core with 3" rebar on 4' centers. Then, while helplessly trapped, the ray stung him in the heart.

[Pardalis]

Come on guys, this is not funny, a man is dead.

[Shrinker]

Guys, I get the gag, but the soulless monsters over at Loose Change have managed a 14 post thread showing nothing but respect.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12225

Guess we'd better stay off the high horse for a few days.

[Brainache]

I feel sad for his wife and kids, but I find it hard to see Steve Irwin as being an innocent victim. He made his living by intimidating dangerous animals and one of them got him.
I'm sorry if joking about it offends you, but if the guy had been less of an idiot his kids would still have a father.

[kedo1981]

After all, was'nt it you and I

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I feel sad for his wife and kids, but I find it hard to see Steve Irwin as being an innocent victim. He made his living by intimidating dangerous animals and one of them got him.
I'm sorry if joking about it offends you, but if the guy had been less of an idiot his kids would still have a father.

My thoughts exactly. This was a guy who spent his adult life asking for it. He should have been more concerned with preserving his life for the sake of his children.

As for the loosers, I'm sure they'll turn on him as soon as they remember that Irwin made a movie wherein he assits the CIA in recovering a spy satellite transmitter from a crocodile that ate it after it landed in the australian outback. They've never failed to live down to our worst expectations before.

[R.Mackey]

I feel sad for his wife and kids, but I find it hard to see Steve Irwin as being an innocent victim. He made his living by intimidating dangerous animals and one of them got him.
I'm sorry if joking about it offends you, but if the guy had been less of an idiot his kids would still have a father.
I have to disagree. While Steve Irwin was something of a sensationalist, he was also a legitimate zoologist and conservationalist, and I feel indebted to him for his work. One might also argue that any zoological garden is unethical, "intimidating" dangerous animals by trapping them and imprisoning them in unnatural surroundings.

There is no argument that his profession was high-risk, but it was the life he wanted to lead. Whether his style was too intimidating to animals, I am not qualified to evaluate -- but his distinctive style gave him the fame and money, indeed was necessary, to support his greater goals. In the long run, I believe his death is a significant loss to the environmental movement.

RIP Steve.

[Dave1001]

Edit

[Correa Neto]

His show, despite having some sensationalism, made IMHO a pretty decent job on showing people that -even the dangerous ones- predators and posionous animals do not deserve the overhyped reputation of evil mankillers they often have.

I don't know a single diver who would use a steel mesh when diving with stingrays. People die of weird unprobable causes every single day. This was one of such cases.
And a sad irony, since stingrays are very calm animals, unless you step on them.

Oh, but maybe it was not a stingray. Maybe it was Elton John totally copying an alien...

[jhunter1163]

If I saw 14 posts at LC that showed the same respect for the victims of 9/11, I'd have a lot more respect for them. I doubt there are 14 such posts on the entire site.

[Brainache]

I have to disagree. While Steve Irwin was something of a sensationalist, he was also a legitimate zoologist and conservationalist, and I feel indebted to him for his work. One might also argue that any zoological garden is unethical, "intimidating" dangerous animals by trapping them and imprisoning them in unnatural surroundings.

.

I don't think he was a legitimate zoologist, unless by legitimate you mean he owned a zoo. The intimidation I was referring to was the way he made his wildlife shows. He would antagonise these animals just for a bit of good footage.
I won't deny that he was passionate about wild animals and that his enthusiasm brought his cause a lot of publicity, but his TV show constantly showed him taking unnecessary risks with dangerous animals. No doubt it was this risk taking which made him stand out from the crowd. Live by the claw, die by the claw.
Anyway it is now six fortyfive am and I'm not making as much sense as I'd like, but that's insomnia for you.

[c4ts]

Whenever someone famous or important dies, hundreds of conspiricy theories are born. There probably are actual CT's concerning Irwin's death already. (Unless American is serious, in which case there are at least one.) Therefore, there is a massive worldwide conspiracy to make celebrities die.

That being settled, we have no need for actual evidence when we can all play conspiracy theory Clue. Was it George Bush in the Masonic Lodge with the Mind Control Satellite? Was it The Grays in the Bohemian Grove with the 747 Drone? Or Satan in the Corporate Office with the Toxic Vaccene?

Of course in this version, you have a three card goal, the cards you draw add to your theory instead of removing possibilities, you can throw out the ones that conflict with your theory, and the only way to win is to convince everyone else that you are right and you're the only one playing Clue by the correct rules.

[R.Mackey]

I don't think he was a legitimate zoologist, unless by legitimate you mean he owned a zoo. The intimidation I was referring to was the way he made his wildlife shows. He would antagonise these animals just for a bit of good footage.
I won't deny that he was passionate about wild animals and that his enthusiasm brought his cause a lot of publicity, but his TV show constantly showed him taking unnecessary risks with dangerous animals. No doubt it was this risk taking which made him stand out from the crowd. Live by the claw, die by the claw.
Anyway it is now six fortyfive am and I'm not making as much sense as I'd like, but that's insomnia for you.
So what do you think about Siegfried and Roy?

I never worked on his shows, never saw behind the scenes. I don't know if his shows, in reality, were any better or worse than professional standards, the demands of animal watchdog groups, or comparable programs. Anecdotally, the only outcry I ever remember was when he appeared to put one of his children at risk, and even that seemed overblown, basically an emotional case built on a few seconds of video with no real analysis.

Are we not skeptics here? Do you have any evidence that he was cruel to his animals, or is it possible you were taken in by his showmanship?

I will admit, I was surprised that he lasted this long, and expected some snake or something to do him in years ago... but it was his life, his choice. He was able to parley a minor reptile house and crocodile rescue service into a highly visible (and profitable!) eco-tourism and conservational enterprise. I honestly think he deserves more respect than he's getting from some folks here.

[rwguinn]

I don't think he was a legitimate zoologist, unless by legitimate you mean he owned a zoo. The intimidation I was referring to was the way he made his wildlife shows. He would antagonise these animals just for a bit of good footage.
I won't deny that he was passionate about wild animals and that his enthusiasm brought his cause a lot of publicity, but his TV show constantly showed him taking unnecessary risks with dangerous animals. No doubt it was this risk taking which made him stand out from the crowd. Live by the claw, die by the claw.
Anyway it is now six fortyfive am and I'm not making as much sense as I'd like, but that's insomnia for you.

What a load of recycled Alfalfa!
Get off your high horse!. Wild critters is wild critters. He was good at what he did, was very knowlegable about the subject, and chose to deal with varmints the rest of us call "dangerous". Those "dangerous" animals are an essential part of our ecosystem. If what he did brought anyone, anywhere, more understanding of natural processes or the critters that practice them, or encouraged one kid to study the subject, what he did was worth it.
And since I am one person, it was worth it.

[Brainache]

So what do you think about Siegfried and Roy?


Not much. Less than I think of Steve. At least Mr Irwin used his fame to publicise quarantine issues and conservation.

Are we not skeptics here? Do you have any evidence that he was cruel to his animals, or is it possible you were taken in by his showmanship?

I wasn't reffering to the animals in his zoo, just all the ones on his TV show where he would pounce on them out of the blue and wrestle around to provide exciting vision. IMO something totally unnecessary. But hey it put bums on seats, so it can't be all bad.

I will admit, I was surprised that he lasted this long, and expected some snake or something to do him in years ago... but it was his life, his choice. He was able to parley a minor reptile house and crocodile rescue service into a highly visible (and profitable!) eco-tourism and conservational enterprise. I honestly think he deserves more respect than he's getting from some folks here.

He was a successful self publicist who recklessly endangered his own life, made a widow of his wife and left his children fatherless.
/rant.

[c4ts]

As far as I know, Irwin was very outspoken against illegal poaching and would probably object to the idea of injuring animals for video footage in the same line of reasoning. He normally released the animal once he was finished talking about it.

[tkingdoll]

As far as I know, Irwin was very outspoken against illegal poaching and would probably object to the idea of injuring animals for video footage in the same line of reasoning. He normally released the animal once he was finished talking about it.

He was vehemently anti-hunting, too.

[WildCat]

Sure, he was a conservationist. But you could see this coming from a mile away. He did take risks w/ wild animals, and unnecessary ones at that. That's what made the South Park parody of him so funny, because sometimes it seemed as if he was just pointlessly harassing the animals.

Just google images of stingrays - you'll see many pics of people feeding them, stroking them, swimming w/ them, etc. By all accounts they're docile ceatures, it stands to reason that the Croc Hunter was making that ray feel mighty threatened for it to strike out as it did. And while I do feel for his widow and especially his kids, this was predictable enough to be morbidly humorous. How many people here joked about the guy who sang to bears getting eaten by one? What is the difference, really?

[tkingdoll]

Just google images of stingrays - you'll see many pics of people feeding them, stroking them, swimming w/ them, etc. By all accounts they're docile ceatures, it stands to reason that the Croc Hunter was making that ray feel mighty threatened for it to strike out as it did. And while I do feel for his widow and especially his kids, this was predictable enough to be morbidly humorous. How many people here joked about the guy who sang to bears getting eaten by one? What is the difference, really?

You need to Google for bull rays, as that's what killed him. They are the largest type of stingray, up to 14ft long, and known for raising their tails like a scorpion when approached. Sure it felt threatened, but that doesn't mean he was more likely to be killed - it was a freak accident.

Wikipedia says 20 people have been killed by a stingray in modern times.

[gumboot]

By all accounts they're docile ceatures, it stands to reason that the Croc Hunter was making that ray feel mighty threatened for it to strike out as it did.


He was just swimming along above it, and it randomly rolled over, jabbed him in the chest, and swam off.

It was a random freak occurance.

I was working on a Discovery Channel TV series called "Animal Face/Off" - stupid show, but I got to meet a heap of animal experts. They guy we got in for the reptiles works with Crocodiles in Australia, and knew Irwin quite well. From his conversations, the whole "jumping on a croc" thing seems to be pretty standard. It might look dangerous and showy to ignorant TV audiences sitting on their couch, but the way this guy told it, it's actually the safest way to grab one of the beasts.

This guy said Irwin was always very safety conscious - he was just also very experienced so he could tell when it was safe and when it wasn't. He also gave the impression of Irwin being a very serious and dedicated zoologist - not just some sort of silly play-zoo-keeper.

Yeah, he was doing a dangerous job. Working with wild animals IS dangerous. Another guy we had on the show is developing a game park system to safe Tigers, based on the South African lion game park model. He's almost been killed by his tigers quite a few times - once really bad. It's part of the risk. These guys know what the risk is. Likewise with the guy that came over from the States who works with bears. The man looks like a bear himself - he's enormous. But like he said, he bear could take his head off with one effortless swing of his paw. And it could happen. At any moment.

-Andrew

[chance]

A high risk profession!, relative to what!,

Motorcycle racer,
Jockey
Steeple jack
Electrician
Policeman
Fireman
Doctor
Lollipop lady
commuter

We are just so removed from our suburban lifestyles anything remotely connected with sharp teeth at one end or pointy things at the other, seems outrageously dangerous.

[gumboot]

A high risk profession!, relative to what!,

Motorcycle racer,
Jockey
Steeple jack
Electrician
Policeman
Fireman
Doctor
Lollipop lady
commuter

We are just so removed from our suburban lifestyles anything remotely connected with sharp teeth at one end or pointy things at the other, seems outrageously dangerous.


You mean *they* are so removed from our suburban lifestyles...

You're right though... we see these jobs as outrageously dangerous, thus for some reason we insert a great deal of reckless risk. This, of course, isn't true at all. In my experience the office worker who drives to work every day probably takes more risks with their life on a daily basis than someone who works in a "dangerous" job does.

Film stunt work, for example, can sometimes be incredibly dangerous (if not done properly!). Yet the stunt people I work with on a regular basis are some of the most safety conscious people I have ever met.

-Andrew

[American]

After all, was'nt it you and I

In a way, this is everyone's fault.

If one of us failed - we all did.

[Belz...]

Come on guys, this is not funny, a man is dead.

I agree, plus I really liked the man. He did what he loved with a passion, and you have to respect that.

[rustytunes]

I am apalled at this thread. Its bad enough that it is all over the TV news -- all stations here devoted the whole news broadcast to it and there are specials on tonight. The press are like vultures. Conspiricy theories are running rife. And it happened less than 24hrs ago.

Steve was widely loved here in Australia. My young kids cried when they heard the news. With Steve, what you saw is what you got. His public behaviour was how he was in personal life. All the money he made was put straight into his zoo and or other conservationalist ventures. He introduced the true down to earth Aussie bloke to the world, and even re-established a lot of lost Australianisms back into our culture.

This was a freak accident. Crikey, give it a rest.

[Mr. Skinny]

You mean *they* are so removed from our suburban lifestyles...

You're right though... we see these jobs as outrageously dangerous, thus for some reason we insert a great deal of reckless risk. This, of course, isn't true at all. In my experience the office worker who drives to work every day probably takes more risks with their life on a daily basis than someone who works in a "dangerous" job does.

Film stunt work, for example, can sometimes be incredibly dangerous (if not done properly!). Yet the stunt people I work with on a regular basis are some of the most safety conscious people I have ever met.

-Andrew
Andrew,

I agree with you in part, but not all of being a fireman, or policeman is "reckless risk", but it is certainly more unpredictable than falling off a building into an airbag.

Are you saying that we make these jobs sound riskier than they really are, or are you saying that a cop or fireman and a stuntman have equally risky jobs?

You said that an office worker driving to work probably takes more risk than a police officer or a fireman. Pish Tosh, (or some other dismissive sound). Drive an emergency vehicle sometime, and report back.

[sillyhead]

Earnhardt drove his crazyfast cars, and I drive my Buick. Croc guy had his crazyfun animals, and I have my (mostly) harmless kitty. But I know that I would be just fine dying while doing the things I -am- passionate about doing. He knew there were risks involved, and he chose to take them. He did a lot of good things, and created a lot of fun shows, etc, and I will miss him.

RIP Croc Hunter!

[Lonewulf]

You said that an office worker driving to work probably takes more risk than a police officer or a fireman. Pish Tosh, (or some other dismissive sound). Drive an emergency vehicle sometime, and report back.

While I agree in general, you DO have to realize that the majority of the time, police officers aren't doing high-risk tasks. The high-risk tasks aren't handled everyday (though one might argue just standing outside in a uniform is high-risk... in some places, that IS true).

However, if you accept that police officers and firemen only really do really risky things every once in a while, compare that to a driver, who does moderately risky things (such as driving), every DAY, to work and back. It can potentially add up.

But that all depends on location, what the driver's driving, and what the police involved are specializing in.

Either way, I would say that working with wild animals isn't as dangerous as people make it out to be. "They're still wild animals!!!111" -- well, a car's still a car, and a busy road's still a busy road.

[gumboot]

Andrew,

I agree with you in part, but not all of being a fireman, or policeman is "reckless risk", but it is certainly more unpredictable than falling off a building into an airbag.

Are you saying that we make these jobs sound riskier than they really are, or are you saying that a cop or fireman and a stuntman have equally risky jobs?


No, I am saying regular people PERCEIVE them as involving great risk. There is a distinction between "dangerous" and "risk". While these jobs are dangerous, they seldom involve taking great risks - for example if a house is well-ablaze firemen will generally fight the fire from outside. If police face well armed offenders they call in more heavily armed police. Etc.




You said that an office worker driving to work probably takes more risk than a police officer or a fireman. Pish Tosh, (or some other dismissive sound). Drive an emergency vehicle sometime, and report back.


Yes, I am. Driving an emergency vehicle is less RISKY than a lot of things regular people do on a daily basis in their cars without thinking (changing lane without looking, for example, running a "just turned red" light, and so on)

Part of the reason is because the emergency vehicle drivers KNOW their job is dangerous, so act accordingly. If you've driven an emergency vehicle you know what I mean (my Grandfather was a paramedic for 40 years, my uncle is one now, and I know a heap of cops). Simply look at the statistics for emergency vehicle crashes (excluding police car rammings obviously) versus other vehicles. Hell, if an ambulance or a fire engine crashes here it's on the news, that's how rarely it happens (and I'm talking one accident every few years...), yet we have an average of about 27 injury-causing traffic accidents every day.

Watch a fire engine or police car or ambulance going through an intersection. Unless the driver is an idiot (in which case, they ARE taking risks...) they crawl through until it's clear they're safe. They don't just come blasting through at full speed.

Your average suburban worker perceives their entire life as relatively safe. And as a result they end up taking incredible risks.

Someone who perceives their work as relatively dangerous usually takes LESS risks.

Back to film again. I mainly do production work, but I also work in the lightning department on occasion. This is probably the most dangerous department in regular film work (when stunts, flying, driving, pyrotechnics, etc. isn't involved); you're dealing with enormous amounts of power, often outside with water around, etc.

As such I'm just generally very aware of danger relating to electricity in every day life, and I don't take risks. I am constantly astounded by the sorts of risks most people take re: electricity. Because they don't perceive it as dangerous. The irony of course, is because these regular people don't know anything, while taking great risks, they see me doing stuff and THINK I am being reckless. Yet I KNOW that what I'm doing is not the least bit risky.

Likewise with my cousin, who is a qualified mountaineering guide. He'll do things that people perceive as really dangerous, but actually they're not. Meanwhile he'll see the same people taking the sorts of risks that my cousin would NEVER take, because he knows how dangerous it is.

-Andrew

[Skeptic Ginger]

I feel sad for his wife and kids, but I find it hard to see Steve Irwin as being an innocent victim. He made his living by intimidating dangerous animals and one of them got him.
I'm sorry if joking about it offends you, but if the guy had been less of an idiot his kids would still have a father.I think you are very misinformed here.

A person who was there said in an interview, it was a fluke event unrelated to what they were filming. In the interview the story was they were filming life on the barrier reef and Irwin swam over a ray hidden in the bottom sand as rays do. Irwin may have stepped on it or just frightened it by swimming over the ray and appearing like a predator. That wasn't mentioned. What was mentioned was that it had nothing to do with their filming.

And rays are by no means considered that dangerous anyway. They are not aggressive. And while a few people get painful wounds, I've never heard of someone dying from one. The news said there had been 3 recorded deaths in 100 years from rays.

This post bothers me for another reason. It's the second one I've read making this claim. Irwin's antics were fake danger. Anyone who knows the actual facts about the animals involved knows a lot of the danger was mostly fake. He may have done some things that were risky, but the majority wasn't.

Crocodiles may be dangerous when they are hidden in dark water, but somehow I doubt they are dangerous the way Irwin fooled around with them. Alligators freak people out and kill once in a while, but in the Okefenokee National Park, rangers use poles to push large alligators away while the rangers are in the water. Crocks are more man eaters than gators but still, I just doubt much of the danger was real in Irwin's stunts. I have snorkeled around sharks. You can take pictures that look dangerous. But there are many species of sharks that are not dangerous.

People were upset when he took his baby while feeding a crock, but I thought the reaction was stupid. There was no doubt in my mind the baby was not in any danger. Michael Jackson hanging his kid over the railing for pictures, maybe, but Irwin doing what he does everyday, and wanting his kids to be a part of it like his parents let him be a part of it, no.

You can say you didn't like his style of entertainment, I wasn't a big fan, because it was fake and I prefer a program with more substance. But to claim he was reckless and that's what happens when you are reckless, I think is a misinformed charge. His antics were less dangerous than a lot of jobs people have. Would you say the coal miners who died were reckless and left their kids without fathers?

Were there any people knowledgeable in his field criticizing him for taking unnecessary chances or saying it was really dangerous? None that I ever heard. It was fake danger. Maybe a bite, maybe even a serious bite, but it was faked as life threatening.

His environmental and animal protection passion made him a person whose passing will be mourned.

[Skeptic Ginger]

What a load of recycled Alfalfa!
Get off your high horse!. Wild critters is wild critters. He was good at what he did, was very knowlegable about the subject, and chose to deal with varmints the rest of us call "dangerous". Those "dangerous" animals are an essential part of our ecosystem. If what he did brought anyone, anywhere, more understanding of natural processes or the critters that practice them, or encouraged one kid to study the subject, what he did was worth it.
And since I am one person, it was worth it.
And I would add, not everything valuable in science comes from a university. People can promote biology in ways that don't involve writing your PhD or tracking wildlife with satellites. Public awareness campaigns do a tremendous amount toward wildlife preservation.

[Skeptic Ginger]

... it stands to reason that the Croc Hunter was making that ray feel mighty threatened for it to strike out as it did...Except you are wrong.

[Skeptic Ginger]

He was just swimming along above it, and it randomly rolled over, jabbed him in the chest, and swam off.

It was a random freak occurance.

I was working on a Discovery Channel TV series called "Animal Face/Off" - stupid show, but I got to meet a heap of animal experts. They guy we got in for the reptiles works with Crocodiles in Australia, and knew Irwin quite well. From his conversations, the whole "jumping on a croc" thing seems to be pretty standard. It might look dangerous and showy to ignorant TV audiences sitting on their couch, but the way this guy told it, it's actually the safest way to grab one of the beasts.

This guy said Irwin was always very safety conscious - he was just also very experienced so he could tell when it was safe and when it wasn't. He also gave the impression of Irwin being a very serious and dedicated zoologist - not just some sort of silly play-zoo-keeper.

Yeah, he was doing a dangerous job. Working with wild animals IS dangerous. Another guy we had on the show is developing a game park system to safe Tigers, based on the South African lion game park model. He's almost been killed by his tigers quite a few times - once really bad. It's part of the risk. These guys know what the risk is. Likewise with the guy that came over from the States who works with bears. The man looks like a bear himself - he's enormous. But like he said, he bear could take his head off with one effortless swing of his paw. And it could happen. At any moment.

-Andrew
Just as I suspected. You have confirmed how I saw the situation.

[Skeptic Ginger]

leading cause of unintentional death in the USA -> motor vehicle accident (http://www.nsc.org/library/rept2000.htm)

It's the things we do everyday that are sometimes the most dangerous.

Deaths and Injuries in the Workplace

* There were 5,300 workplace fatalities in 2001 due to unintentional injuries.
* There were 3.9 deaths per 100,000 workers in 2001.
* On the job, 3.9 million American workers suffered disabling injuries in 2001.
* Motor vehicle crashes accounted for 2,200 of the 5,300 workplace fatalities.
* The agriculture industry accounted for 700 deaths and 130,000 disabling injuries in 2001. Agriculture workers had the second highest death rate among the major industry divisions.
* Work injuries cost Americans $132.1 billion in 2001. That amounts to $970 per worker.
* Nearly 9 out of 10 deaths and about three-fifths of the disabling injuries suffered by American workers in 2001 occurred off-the-job.

Deaths and Injuries in the Home

* There were 33,200 fatalities and 8,000,000 disabling injuries in 2001. This represents 12.0 fatalities per 100,000 population.
* In the home, there is a fatal injury every 16 minutes and a disabling injury every 4 seconds.
* The four leading fatal events are poisonings, falls, fires and burns, and suffocation by ingested object.
* The leading cause of death in the home, poisoning, took the lives of 11,500 people in 2001. This number includes deaths from drugs, medicines, other solid and liquid substances, and gases and vapors. The 25 to 44 age group had the highest death rate.
* Falls took the lives of 9,000 people, four out of five of them over the age of 65.
* Smoke inhalation accounts for the majority of deaths in home fires.

Deaths and Injuries in the Community

* The 19,000 fatalities in 2001 include deaths in public places or places used in a public way and not involving motor vehicles. Most sports, recreation, and transportation deaths are included. This number excludes work-related deaths.
* Therre is a public fatal injury every 28 minutes and a disabling injury every 5 seconds.
* The number of public unintentional-injury deaths decreased by 900, or 5%, between 2000 and 2001.
* The five leading fatal causes are falls, poisoning, drowning, suffocation by ingestion, and air, water and railroad transportation.
* People 65 and over suffer almost half of the fatalities due to public injuries.
* Recreational boating resulted in 701 deaths in 2000. Alcohol was reported to be involved in 215 (31%) of recreational boating deaths.
* 445 boating fatalities in 2000 could have been avoided if the victim had been wearing a life jacket.Forgot to add, the majority of these deaths were preventable with the most minor steps like having a working smoke alarm, wearing a seatbelt, a life jacket and so on.

[George152]

Rule 1.
Don't get so close that any large powerful animal with sharp bits can get you.
Rule 2 There is no rule 2

[Skeptic Ginger]

I am apalled at this thread. Its bad enough that it is all over the TV news -- all stations here devoted the whole news broadcast to it and there are specials on tonight. The press are like vultures. Conspiricy theories are running rife. And it happened less than 24hrs ago.

Steve was widely loved here in Australia. My young kids cried when they heard the news. With Steve, what you saw is what you got. His public behaviour was how he was in personal life. All the money he made was put straight into his zoo and or other conservationalist ventures. He introduced the true down to earth Aussie bloke to the world, and even re-established a lot of lost Australianisms back into our culture.

This was a freak accident. Crikey, give it a rest.Hey, some of us are on your side.

And frankly, the other attitude surprises me. Some people are bad, or have two sides, and when they die people go on like they were saints, (like Reagan who was no saint). Here we have a guy who was pretty darn lovable. Goofy maybe, not everyone's cup of tea entertainment wise, but the animosity here just doesn't seem deserved. It's a stretch to think this guy was cruel to animals. I don't buy it. Maybe to a PETA purist, but not to people with more rational observation skills.

[WildCat]

Except you are wrong.
Which just makes it ironic.

When Treadwell got eaten by Grumpy the bear, people here were nominating him for a Darwin award. Irwin runs out of luck, and we can't dare make fun.

Go figure...

[Skeptic Ginger]

... Driving an emergency vehicle is less RISKY than a lot of things regular people do on a daily basis in their cars without thinking (changing lane without looking, for example, running a "just turned red" light, and so on)

Part of the reason is because the emergency vehicle drivers KNOW their job is dangerous, so act accordingly....The leading cause of accidental death in firefighters is vehicle accidents, not fires. (The leading cause of death is actually heart disease.) But most MVA deaths in that field are volunteer firefighters. As a group, less training, less skill, and sometimes they are not in emergency vehicles. Also some of the deaths were firefighters hit by cars as they were at accident scenes or fires.

I totally agree with you here, gumboot.

[hellaeon]

Well said skeptigirl.

some of the posts in this thread truly define the well misinformed.
Get some facts before some of you post such tripe. Try to become less adicted to posting and more addicted to facts.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Occupational fatalities due to animal-related events (http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline/?request=get-document&issn=1080-6032&volume=012&issue=03&page=0168)
RICKY LEE LANGLEY, MD, MPH; JAMES LEE HUNTER, DVM, MPH

From the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, Section of Human Ecology and Epidemiology, Raleigh, NC.

Objective.—To better understand the extent of animal-related fatalities in the workplace.

Methods.—This study utilized Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries files from the US Department of Labor for the years 1992–1997 to describe the events surrounding human workplace fatalities associated with animals.

Results.—During the 6-year time period, 350 workplace deaths could be associated with an animal-related event. Cattle and horses were the animals primarily involved, and workers in the agricultural industry experienced the majority of events. Many deaths involved transportation events, either direct collision with the animal or highway crashes trying to avoid collision with an animal. Exotic animals, primarily elephants and tigers, were responsible for a few deaths. A small number of workers died of a zoonotic infection.

Conclusions.—We found that approximately 1% of workplace fatalities are associated with an animal-related event. Methods to decrease the frequency of an animal injury are suggested.

An average of 15 to 16 deaths from dog attacks occur in the United States annually.

Seventy-seven (22%) of the deaths involved a motor vehicle crash (MVC), either collision with the animal or swerving to avoid collision with the animal and wrecking, or being run over by an animal-drawn wagon

Twenty-six people died as a result of airplane collisions with birds

For deer-related events, the occupation most frequently cited was truck driver

Exotic animals are also responsible for several fatalities each year, especially in circus workers and zookeepers.

[rustytunes]

Hey, some of us are on your side.

And frankly, the other attitude surprises me. Some people are bad, or have two sides, and when they die people go on like they were saints, (like Reagan who was no saint). Here we have a guy who was pretty darn lovable. Goofy maybe, not everyone's cup of tea entertainment wise, but the animosity here just doesn't seem deserved. It's a stretch to think this guy was cruel to animals. I don't buy it. Maybe to a PETA purist, but not to people with more rational observation skills.

Thank you Skeptigirl. There was much, much more to Steve than what is seen on Discovery.

[Brainache]

Which just makes it ironic.

When Treadwell got eaten by Grumpy the bear, people here were nominating him for a Darwin award. Irwin runs out of luck, and we can't dare make fun.

Go figure...

This is the angle I was coming from.
Maybe I am ill informed as to the actual risks Steve was taking, but I think comparing what he did to Firefighters and Police is a bit strange.
Maybe its because I'm an Aussie, or maybe I'm just callous, but joking about tragically avoidable death is something I do.
Jokes about space shuttle disasters, Dingoes and babies, John Denver's plane, etc etc are commonplace where I live. Usually most popular a day or two after the tragic event.
I remember the thread about the Bear Guy(whom I had never heard of) and see the early posts on this thread as being in a similar vein.
If posting my opinion of Steve Irwin as a man who was reckless and self serving offends people then I apologise.
I reserve my right to think he should have been more careful.

/Irwin Talk.

[demon]

I`ve heard there are witnesses who saw another bull ray, on an algea knoll, acting suspiciously before it swam away hastily.

[mayday]

Regarding Steve Irwin and his profession: no matter what you do, no matter how much of your heart you put into it, there will always be armchair critics who will try to tear you down.

Mr. Irwin was a very talented man who contributed much to society. And he had something a lot of people who are in the public eye dont have these days, which is a personality.

[bob_kark]

Which just makes it ironic.

When Treadwell got eaten by Grumpy the bear, people here were nominating him for a Darwin award. Irwin runs out of luck, and we can't dare make fun.

Go figure...
I think the difference here is that Irwin took his own safety and the safety of others quite seriously. In addition, Irwin worked tirelessly for the conservation of animals and raised awareness about snakes and crocodiles.

Treadwell had no experience, training, or education on handling wild animals and even blatantly ignored safety precautions for himself as well as his girlfriend, who died with him. While he may have worked for the conservation of bears, the bears he was protecting did not need protection and his television appearances seemed to be more about feeding his need for attention than it did about raising public awareness about bears.

So I find it hard to agree with your statement, simply for the fact that his extreme negligence cost his girlfriend her life. Idiots like that deserve a good ribbing after they've essentially committed suicide.

[rustytunes]

Some Steve Irwin Quotes:

"But I put my life on the line to save animals."

"I have no fear of losing my life - if I have to save a koala or a crocodile or a kangaroo or a snake, mate, I will save it."

"Yeah, I'm a thrill seeker, but crikey, education's the most important thing."

"Every cent we earn from Crocodile Hunter goes straight back into conservation. Every single cent."

[qayak]

Another Irwin quote:

"Crikey! Aaack......."

[Mr. Scott]

Just google images of stingrays - you'll see many pics of people feeding them, stroking them, swimming w/ them, etc. By all accounts they're docile ceatures

Indeed, I've been to Stingray City (http://cruises.about.com/cs/caribbeanports/a/stingray_city.htm) and swam with them and hand-fed them.

Many Caribbean guide books call the snorkeling at Stingray City the "best snorkeling experience in the world."

It's a sand bar way out off of Grand Cayman where hundreds (thousands?) of stingrays congregate. Swimming with them was like being in a room with a dozen friendly dogs, all seemingly interested in you and what you may give them. They were happy to be petted and you could feel their soft mouth parts when they took food (bait squid) from your fingers. I even accidentally puched one hard and it didn't react. I don't recall being warned about poison spines. Steve Irwin's killer was no doubt a different kind of creature.

[Dog Town]

Except you are wrong.

As A PADI cert dive master, with over 2000 hours under the sea, at min.
I have dove with plenty of rays. Almost lost my right foot to one. Going from ship to shore in the keys, I step'd right into a fam, or gaggle,or nitemare, you decide! Missed anything that would make me less than a biped. Whew! Long story short. It is quick, it hurts like hell, and weeks b4 I could walk. How it made it through his BC is beyond me? It is a rather thick obstacle, most rebreather inflate valves are over your heart.Not to mention his ribcage.Lucky shot by a master of the underwater kingdom! Who knows? Was he on a skin dive or scuba?

Think he was a GOD among men! I do!

PS
Have not seen the film, does it just strike? Or is he messing w/it?

[American]

When Treadwell got eaten by Grumpy the bear, people here were nominating him for a Darwin award. Irwin runs out of luck, and we can't dare make fun.

I don't think people with kids should get Darwin awards. (Irwin had kids.)

In fact if somebody's kids die, then the parents should qualify for the award -- although they may be able to have more kids, they have partially demonstrated that it wasn't meant to be.

These rules rely on strict reverence for Darwin. Too bad that most people don't care for details enough to honor Darwin's true theory... People are callous - they'll do anything for laughs.

[Brainache]

If anyone is interested in what some of my fellow Australians are saying about this, here is a thread from another forum I frequent:

http://www.televisedrevolution.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109

Different people deal with death in different ways.
I got a laugh out of the undertaker when I was arranging my dad's funeral. I'm strange like that.

[gumboot]

Personally I'm all for gallows humour. I tend to enjoy it myself. It is kind of tragically funny that a guy who wrestled with crocodiles and the worlds most venomous snakes was killed by a stingray.

I only really took objection to the criticisms of his professional attitude to his work, because that's a professional slur.

Having said that, I hate the whole "precious angel" thing that gets laid on once someone dies. Hell, some people aren't that fantastic. Maybe if people thought so highly of them in life, instead of waiting until they were dead, people would get along a lot better.

I remember the principal of my high school died. Everyone used to hate him. But once he was dead, well you'd think he was a saint. The old Pope is another good idea.

Guh. Death doesn't magically erase all your flaws.

-Andrew

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
Think he was a GOD among men! I do!

PS
Have not seen the film, does it just strike? Or is he messing w/it?They haven't shown it, only described it. They made a point of saying he was in no way 'messing' with it. He swam over the Ray, it spiked him, he pulled the spike out and his heart stopped almost immediately.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Indeed, I've been to Stingray City (http://cruises.about.com/cs/caribbeanports/a/stingray_city.htm) and swam with them and hand-fed them..... I don't recall being warned about poison spines. Steve Irwin's killer was no doubt a different kind of creature.They trim or remove the spikes in those facilities.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Which just makes it ironic.

When Treadwell got eaten by Grumpy the bear, people here were nominating him for a Darwin award. Irwin runs out of luck, and we can't dare make fun.

Go figure...Treadwell ignored the basic facts about Grizzlies. They are carnivores, they are predators, and they are not predictable. He was lulled into overconfidence by the fact Grizzlies do not always go after people. He made a nice film except for the ending. Other than that, I didn't see the thread.

It is ironic a freak animal accident would kill Irwin. I've always thought it ironic Gene Shoemaker (http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/GeneShoemaker/), who brought attention to the danger from space rocks impacting on Earth was killed by a car impact.

[Strider1974]

Guh. Death doesn't magically erase all your flaws.

-Andrew

The guy did a lot for conservation but apart from inheriting a private zoo he was no zoologist.

[Moochie]

From what the "experts" say, Irwin was atypically ignorant about stingrays. That ignorance killed him. The stingray thought Irwin was a shark.

Irwin reputedly called John Howard Australia's greatest Prime Minister.

He was a great conservationist and a good entertainer. He was also, perhaps, ignorant of politics as well as stingrays.

There are many great, unsung, conservationists out there. Let us not forget their magnificent efforts while we glorify Steve.

M.

[c4ts]

Guh. Death doesn't magically erase all your flaws.

-Andrew

It magically erases your ability to accumulate more of them.

[demon]

Moochie:
"Irwin reputedly called John Howard Australia's greatest Prime Minister.
He was a great conservationist and a good entertainer. He was also, perhaps, ignorant of politics as well as stingrays.
There are many great, unsung, conservationists out there. Let us not forget their magnificent efforts while we glorify Steve."

Nicely put.
Loath as I am to find anything humorous in the death of anyone I have found the comments on the death of Steve Irwin by John Howard to be rather amusing. Apparently getting a bull ray barb through your heart is to have died in "quintessentially Australian circumstances"? Well, Irwin certainly wasn`t quintessentially Australian in my experience (and what Howard would know about such things I can't imagine). Most of the the quintessential Australians I`ve ever met would have been more likely to spear the ray from a safe distance, and eat it for tea.
I also see Howard is proposing a state funeral.
No doubt military retaliation is planned on this vicious network of Piscean terrorists.

[Moochie]

Moochie:
No doubt military retaliation is planned on this vicious network of Piscean terrorists.

Crikey, I hope not!

M.

[c4ts]

No doubt military retaliation is planned on this vicious network of Piscean terrorists.

"Terrorists" who worked for the Australian government, who killed Steve Irwin because of his political alignment! The retaliation will take place over secret gold deposits beneath the sea.

[Brainache]

Well I am glad some one is looking into this...

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/Lushscreamqueen/stingrayxr7.jpg

[schplurg]

I`ve heard there are witnesses who saw another bull ray, on an algea knoll, acting suspiciously before it swam away hastily.


Loath as I am to find anything humorous in the death of anyone...
Whatever

[Huntster]

.....Government's job is to protect its weakest citizens. Today, it failed.

You're right. Irwin was weak.

Weak of mind.

I think we have more than enough evidence of that.

We have proof..........

[Huntster]

I sure haven't seen a realistice explanation for his death.

Realistic?

How about him wrassling the wrong critter?

[Huntster]

Come on guys, this is not funny, a man is dead.

Yup.

It's not funny, a man is dead,.........

..........and it's not a surprise...............

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Brainache
I feel sad for his wife and kids, but I find it hard to see Steve Irwin as being an innocent victim. He made his living by intimidating dangerous animals and one of them got him.
I'm sorry if joking about it offends you, but if the guy had been less of an idiot his kids would still have a father.

I have to disagree. While Steve Irwin was something of a sensationalist, he was also a legitimate zoologist and conservationalist......

And now a dead one.

Timothy Treadwell was an illegitimate expert. He's dead, too.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

There is no argument that his profession was high-risk, but it was the life he wanted to lead.

Zoology is "high risk"?

Sorry. I don't buy it.

His fame didn't come from zoology. It came from sensationalism.

It finally killed him.

RIP. Period.

Whether his style was too intimidating to animals, I am not qualified to evaluate -- but his distinctive style gave him the fame and money, indeed was necessary, to support his greater goals.

Fame and money.

Like Hell and Ruin?

What good is it doing him now? His "cause"? His legacy?

In the long run, I believe his death is a significant loss to the environmental movement.

I damned sure hope so.

I hope environmentalism suffers the same quick, lethal stab that Irwin got, and for the same reasons.

[money]

Realistic?

How about him wrassling the wrong critter?

Not much of a reader, are you?

[demon]

schplurg:
"Whatever"

Whatever.

[Beerina]

What a completely useless thread.

I know there's a "Language Of The Month" award. Is there a "Woosh! Right Over His Head" award?

[Beerina]

As far as I know, Irwin was very outspoken against illegal poaching and would probably object to the idea of injuring animals for video footage in the same line of reasoning. He normally released the animal once he was finished talking about it.

Irwin (on South Park, holding an angry "croc"): "Here let's see what happens when I stick my thumb up its bum." ... "Crikey! He's pissed now!"

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
Realistic?

How about him wrassling the wrong critter?
Not much of a reader, are you?

Depends on the subject and quality of the writing.

You?

[Soapy Sam]

Steve Irwin's death is tragic, but it raises a number of questions:


- Why did the cameraman take so long to bring Steve back to the surface?

- Why did the crew not act immediately to revive Steve? Why did they not call for help when they knew that Steve was injured?

- Why is the Australian diving industry left so unregulated? Who ever sold them their equipment should be held accountable since the dangers of diving have been known for years.

- Why was Steve not wearing body armor, a proven protection against violent Sting Ray attacks?



In the wake of this tragedy, legislation must be written to prevent more such catastrophes. Regulations need to enforced with stiff penalties for violators. Parliament should immediately appoint an independent blue ribbon commission to investigate what really happened to Steve Irwin.

Government's job is to protect its weakest citizens. Today, it failed.


American- I had not suspected you capable of such a superb CT parody thread.

[Skeptic Ginger]

...


In the wake of this tragedy, legislation must be written to prevent more such catastrophes. Regulations need to enforced with stiff penalties for violators. Parliament should immediately appoint an independent blue ribbon commission to investigate what really happened to Steve Irwin.

Government's job is to protect its weakest citizens. Today, it failed.To change the subject, while the conspiracy jokes aren't offending me...

First time I saw the Grand Canyon I couldn't believe there wasn't a fence.

And camping in Glacier Nat'l Park one year there were warning signs everywhere about bears. And I do mean everywhere. Then we crossed the border to the Canadian side of the park....one tiny sign warning of bears on a bulletin board. Never saw another sign.

BTW, we did see a couple bears, but they ran away of course.

[TjW]

Well, clearly, if the mind control rays fail, they have to send in the heavier artillery...