Britons threaten Muslim beheadings...

[demon]

quote:
Britons threaten Muslim beheadings in footage
Daniel Foggo, London
04sep06

FAR-RIGHT extremists have adopted the tactics of Islamic jihadis by posting videos on the internet in which they threaten to behead British Muslims.

The films show balaclava-clad white British men brandishing guns, knives and clubs, calling on all Muslims to leave Britain or be killed. One appears to be a soldier who has served in the Gulf.
In one film, a man tells Muslims to "go home" or risk being burned alive. He threatens, "I'll cut your head off", and claims to have "comrades" across Britain who have "had enough".

The videos were made after the arrests three weeks ago of suspects connected to the alleged plot to blow up trans-Atlantic jets. Their style mimics the "martyrdom videos" of Islamic radicals.

The release of the videos on YouTube, a US-based open-access website, coincides with reports of a rise in the number of attacks on mosques.

Massoud Shadjareh, chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, said the videoed threats were extremely worrying.

"There is no question there has been an increase in attacks on mosques and Muslims," he said at the weekend...
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,20347865,00.html

[Jon_in_london]

quote:
Britons threaten Muslim beheadings in footage
Daniel Foggo, London
04sep06

FAR-RIGHT extremists have adopted the tactics of Islamic jihadis by posting videos on the internet in which they threaten to behead British Muslims.

The films show balaclava-clad white British men brandishing guns, knives and clubs, calling on all Muslims to leave Britain or be killed. One appears to be a soldier who has served in the Gulf.
In one film, a man tells Muslims to "go home" or risk being burned alive. He threatens, "I'll cut your head off", and claims to have "comrades" across Britain who have "had enough".

The videos were made after the arrests three weeks ago of suspects connected to the alleged plot to blow up trans-Atlantic jets. Their style mimics the "martyrdom videos" of Islamic radicals.

The release of the videos on YouTube, a US-based open-access website, coincides with reports of a rise in the number of attacks on mosques.

Massoud Shadjareh, chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, said the videoed threats were extremely worrying.

"There is no question there has been an increase in attacks on mosques and Muslims," he said at the weekend...
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,20347865,00.html


And your point is?

[RyanRoberts]

Are you surprised? 60+ terror plots are just the kind of ammunition Combat18 or whatever the BNP headbangers call themselves now need. If we don't get a grip on the problem then parts of the country are going to end up looking like Belfast.

Mr Shradjareh's wrapping himself in a Hezbollah flag and speaking at Hizb Tahrir meetings kind of tarnishes his image as an innocent victim. UK muslims really need to find some representitives that don't actually support terrorism.

[Jon_in_london]

Mr Shradjareh's wrapping himself in a Hezbollah flag and speaking at Hizb Tahrir meetings kind of tarnishes his image as an innocent victim.

I missed this. Do you have a link?

[RyanRoberts]

Links from wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Human_Rights_Commission).

Hizb ut Tahrir rally (http://moonbatmedia.com/hizb_ut_tahrir_190806/)

[Jon_in_london]

Links from wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Human_Rights_Commission).

Hizb ut Tahrir rally (http://moonbatmedia.com/hizb_ut_tahrir_190806/)

Thanks.

[Jon_in_london]

Are you surprised? 60+ terror plots are just the kind of ammunition Combat18 or whatever the BNP headbangers call themselves now need. If we don't get a grip on the problem then parts of the country are going to end up looking like Belfast.



Well, Combat18 has been so unsuccesesful in the UK they have had to offshore their operation to Norway. The BNP has managed to gain a toehold in a few councils but is still without a single parliamentarian anywhere. The National Front on the otherhand is reduced to running a website and furtively slapping stickers on lamp-posts in Dagenham.

Now bear in mind that all of this is against a backdrop of people like
1. Asif Hanif, a British Muslim who aspired to blow up a bar in tel Aviv (his mate was succesful but Hanif enjoyed a less succesful free swiming lesson from mossad)
2. Richard Reid- although portayed as a figure of fun, his intent was deadly serious and he came very close indeed to killing hundreds of innocent people.
3. Abu Hamza, Homammed Bakri, Al Muhajiroon, Hisb ut Tahrir etc etc
4. 7th July bombing - 50 killed and 200 injured. Many so seriously they will never ever recover and lead normal lives again
5. 21st july - another attempt to do the same
6. Approximately 15 other thwarted attacks including Kamel Bourgass who tried to make ricin and murdered a special branch officer with a kitchen knife
7. The recent foiled plot which could have resulted in over 3,000 murders in a single day.
8. A recent poll showing that over 10% of British muslims regard the 7/7 bombers as martyrs. An astounding 2% would be proud if their relatives were terrorists while an equaling flabergasting 16% would be indifferent.
9. Cartoon protests and other anti british/western protests by prominent muslim groups.
10. A muslim cleric, Abdullah el-Faisal, jailed for soliciting the murder of Indians, Hindus, Jews, Americans and unbelievers.

Yet, I doubt very much if the rise in Islamophobic incidents exeeds that of antisemitic incidents.

Given all of this, does no-one else think that the British public in general is remarkably restrained in its attitude and tolerance to the muslim community?

[SteveGrenard]

So conceivably this will result in millions of moslems returning to their homeland from Europe due to the holocaust that was inflicted upon them.

Then David Irving and Mel Gibson's father will say there was no holocaust inflicted on them, repudiating their demands for a homeland where they will be safe.

[Mycroft]

quote:
Britons threaten Muslim beheadings in footage
Daniel Foggo, London
04sep06

FAR-RIGHT extremists have adopted the tactics of Islamic jihadis by posting videos on the internet in which they threaten to behead British Muslims.

The films show balaclava-clad white British men brandishing guns, knives and clubs, calling on all Muslims to leave Britain or be killed. One appears to be a soldier who has served in the Gulf.
In one film, a man tells Muslims to "go home" or risk being burned alive. He threatens, "I'll cut your head off", and claims to have "comrades" across Britain who have "had enough".

The videos were made after the arrests three weeks ago of suspects connected to the alleged plot to blow up trans-Atlantic jets. Their style mimics the "martyrdom videos" of Islamic radicals.

The release of the videos on YouTube, a US-based open-access website, coincides with reports of a rise in the number of attacks on mosques.

Massoud Shadjareh, chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, said the videoed threats were extremely worrying.

"There is no question there has been an increase in attacks on mosques and Muslims," he said at the weekend...
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,20347865,00.html


So they're threatening to behave just as badly as the hundreds or even thousands of radical Muslims in Britton who really are plotting to commit atrocities?

Well, I agree that is a bad thing.

It’s a good thing they don’t get any sympathy from anyone but themselves. Otherwise they would be a lot more dangerous than they are.

[Dr Adequate]

Couldn't we hire some large venue, say Wembley stadium, and invite both sets of extremists along to settle their differences; and supply them with as much weaponry as they want ... ?

You may say that I'm a dreamer ...

[YoPopa]

Couldn't we hire some large venue, say Wembley stadium, and invite both sets of extremists along to settle their differences; and supply them with as much weaponry as they want ... ?One side is going to want suicide jackets armed with tactical nuclear devices. I think I'll watch that event on the telly from this side of the pond.

[geni]

Couldn't we hire some large venue, say Wembley stadium, and invite both sets of extremists along to settle their differences; and supply them with as much weaponry as they want ... ?

You may say that I'm a dreamer ...

Well you. How else would you think that Wembley will ever be finnished?

[WildCat]

Well you. How else would you think that Wembley will ever be finnished?
You want the Finns to take over Wembley?

[Giz]

Given all of this, does no-one else think that the British public in general is remarkably restrained in its attitude and tolerance to the muslim community?

Indeed.

In passing, I am reminded of the old joke about paranoia (rephrased): It's not Islamophobia if they are out to get you.

[Pardalis]

Couldn't we hire some large venue, say Wembley stadium, and invite both sets of extremists along to settle their differences; and supply them with as much weaponry as they want ... ?


Yeah, let the Hooligans play for once... :D

[Skeptic]

quote:
Britons threaten Muslim beheadings in footage
Far-rignt extremists...

Remember, folks, the MOST IMPORTANT thing about this is to make absolutely sure that it doesn't cause anybody to become a far-right-phobe or an anti-multiculturalist who thinks the far-right's views are in any way, shape, or form possibly worse or inferior to those of others.

I suggest that, first, all Muslims countries instantly adopt the exact policies the far-right recommends, such as instantly recalling all their emigrants in the UK home, not allowing their "crusade" into Britian to continue. As we all know, when someone threathens a group with beheading its members, the ROOT CAUSE of such action just has to be justified and legitimate grievances he has against that group. It must have been something the Muslims did that caused this threathening video.

Second, I suggest passing new hate-crime laws, making it illeal to insult / make fun / denigrate / hurt in any way the feelings of anybody who belongs to the far right. As we know, the only other possible reason for a far-right member to threathen to behead Muslims except for the Muslims' disgusting, evil behavior, is the low self-esteem and feelings of marginalization and helplessness caused by British Society's RACIST ideas about the far-right members.

In addition, to make sure, British schools would have to start some diversity training to avoid the young generation getting a distorted picture of the far right. I suggest, say, three compulsory school hours where students would be reminded that the vast majority of BNP and Combat18 members have never actually engaged in any terrorist action; that the BNP is the "Political Party of Peace"; and to familiarize the the artistic and other achievements of far-right countries--explaining how Hitler built the autobahns and Mussolini got the trains to run on time would be a good start.

This, I am convinced, will show the tiny minority of extremists in the BNP party of peace that Britian REJECTS THEIR MESSAGE OF HATE and that terrorist tactics will NOT ACHIEVE ANYTHING, except, er, bending over backwards to appease the terrorist and calling it "multiculturalism", "anti-racism", and "dealing with the root causes".

[geni]

You want the Finns to take over Wembley?

Well since the Germans appear to have failed....

[Mycroft]

Remember, folks, the MOST IMPORTANT thing about this is to make absolutely sure that it doesn't cause anybody to become a far-right-phobe or an anti-multiculturalist who thinks the far-right's views are in any way, shape, or form possibly worse or inferior to those of others.

:D

[Diamond]

I think the correct phrase is: "It's not Islamophobia if Muslims are threatening to kill you"

[brodski]

I think the correct phrase is: "It's not Islamophobia if Muslims are threatening to kill you"

By that token was it not sectarian bigotry for the IRA to kill random protestants whilst the UVF was active?

[Diamond]

By that token was it not sectarian bigotry for the IRA to kill random protestants whilst the UVF was active?

I'm sorry I don't follow you :confused:

[Jocko]

By that token was it not sectarian bigotry for the IRA to kill random protestants whilst the UVF was active?

Come up with a term that incudes "phobia" instead of "sectarian bigotry" and you'd be a lot warmer.

[brodski]

I'm sorry I don't follow you :confused:

Just because some Muslims are threatening to kill usdoes not mean that we cannot be guilty of islamiphobia, in the same way that even though the UVF was killing random Catholics the IRA was a bigoted, sectarian, terrorist organisation.
Murdering racist bastards are still murdering racist bastards even if they can claim that "they started it".

[brodski]

Come up with a term that incudes "phobia" instead of "sectarian bigotry" and you'd be a lot warmer.
So because the British Isles' bloody history of persecution of catholic and protestant communities doesn't have a couple of neat names with Greek suffix's, they can't be compared to the term "islamiphobia".
Is homophobia worse than misogyny because it's a "phobia" and misogyny isn't?

[Jocko]

Just because some Muslims are threatening to kill usdoes not mean that we cannot be guilty of islamiphobia, in the same way that even though the UVF was killing random Catholics the IRA was a bigoted, sectarian, terrorist organisation.
Murdering racist bastards are still murdering racist bastards even if they can claim that "they started it".

I think you've got it backward here. You're describing a Murderingracistbastardphobia, which according to your terms, is not a phobia for the very same reason.

The point is, it's not an irrational fear if it's validated constantly as a genuine fear. Motive/sect/politics has nothing to do with it.

[Jocko]

So because the British Isles' bloody history of persecution of catholic and protestant communities doesn't have a couple of neat names with Greek suffix's, they can't be compared to the term "islamiphobia".
Is homophobia worse than misogyny because it's a "phobia" and misogyny isn't?


You're apparently suffering from comprehensibleexpressionphobia. ;)

[brodski]

I think you've got it backward here. You're describing a Murderingracistbastardphobia, which according to your terms, is not a phobia for the very same reason.

The point is, it's not an irrational fear if it's validated constantly as a genuine fear. Motive/sect/politics has nothing to do with it.

Ah, I see where you're going, I don't like the term "Islamiphobia" but it's the handle that we're stuck with. The threats reported in the OP weren't made against murdering racist bastards, they where made against ALL Muslims in the UK, only some of whom are murdering racist bastards.

[Jocko]

I'm still waiting for demon to summon enough scrote to explain exactly what his problem with this "modest proposal" actually is.

[Jocko]

Ah, I see where you're going, I don't like the term "Islamiphobia" but it's the handle that we're stuck with. The threats reported in the OP weren't made against murdering racist bastards, they where made against ALL Muslims in the UK, only some of whom are murdering racist bastards.


Well, it's subjective. Some spider bites can kill, so how "phobic" is the arachnophobic with a black widow spinning a web in his garage? A little, sure, but not entirely.

[brodski]

I'm still waiting for demon to summon enough scrote to explain exactly what his problem with this "modest proposal" actually is.

You really need someone to explain to you why "ethnic cleansing" is wrong?

[Jocko]

You really need someone to explain to you why "ethnic cleansing" is wrong?

I know why ethnic cleansing is wrong. But that's not what this is, not by a long shot.

And my point is, I'm curious why demon might have a problem with this, considering he goes to ridiculous extremes to defend the same behavior when the perpetrators are of a certain religion that is neither Catholic nor Protestant. And those individuals don't post videos of threats, like this. Those people post videos of cold-blooded murder.

Or, as you may call it, ethnic cleansing.

[demon]

Where have I defended the behaviour of anyone who cuts people`s heads off?

[demon]

brodski:
"So because the British Isles' bloody history of persecution of catholic and protestant communities doesn't have a couple of neat names with Greek suffix's, they can't be compared to the term "islamiphobia"."

Speaking of cutting people`s heads off etc, it's what we did so well for centuries: e.g. the so-called "dissolution" of the monasteries (and convents), during which the King's men, for example, dragged the Dean of Glastonbury Abbey around the walls of Bath until he was mangled and dead. Heads of rebels were posted on sticks at the entrances to towns all over the country.
The auto da fes all over the place are commemorated by a symbolic auto da fe on November 5 in which a Catholic is burned in effigy.
The history of their activities in Ireland is something most English would dread to read.

[brodski]

I know why ethnic cleansing is wrong. But that's not what this is, not by a long shot. It's threat to burn alive or behead any Muslims who do not leave Brittan, "ethnic cleansing" is exactly what is being threatened, the fact that it's not a credible threat does not mean that that is not what is being threatened.

And my point is, I'm curious why demon might have a problem with this, considering he goes to ridiculous extremes to defend the same behavior when the perpetrators are of a certain religion that is neither Catholic nor Protestant. And those individuals don't post videos of threats, like this. Those people post videos of cold-blooded murder.

Or, as you may call it, ethnic cleansing.
depending on the context I would call it "ethnic cleansing" or genocidal murder, and I don't defend it, nor do I ask "exactly what the problem" is with it. I do not speak for demon.

[Darth Rotor]

Just because some Muslims are threatening to kill usdoes not mean that we cannot be guilty of islamiphobia, in the same way that even though the UVF was killing random Catholics the IRA was a bigoted, sectarian, terrorist organisation.
Murdering racist bastards are still murdering racist bastards even if they can claim that "they started it".
Newtman's Third Law of Social eMotion:
For every action there is an equal(or not) and opposite reaction.
At some point, the 24/7 media's toxic effect on people's perception of the world evokes a reaction. After about 20-30 years worth of images depicting various and sundry Muslim groups engaging in a variety of terroristic activities, notwithstanding any justification or lack thereof, regardless of context, regardless of media's infinite capacity for slant and spin, the symbol becomes the reality and some people decide that they aren't going to take it anymore. Think of this as the Selma bus ride, with a slightly vicious twist to respond to a more vicious setting. As I recall, the terrorists in Iraq went to great lengths to ensure their little videos got wide circulation to promote their most worthy and holy cause. Law of unintended outcomes, anyone? Or, was it a deliberate provocation intended to inflame a further "action reaction" vicious circle in Europe? Were the Paris riots spontaneous, or were the cynically and coldly calculated, an opportunity awaited? I know where my betting money is on that one.

Perhaps social conditions add fuel to the fire that result in this sort of acting out, just as the excuses are offered for the (pick your Arab) that they are "justified" in their "righteous anger" at (pick the cause.)

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I am looking forward to reading the apologists for the BNP folks as they add to the general hate and discontent.

It should be most entertaining.

DR

[Tony]

I think the correct phrase is: "It's not Islamophobia if Muslims are threatening to kill you"

What is islamophobia?

[The Painter]

If it's them or me, kill them.

[Mojo]

FAR-RIGHT extremists have adopted the tactics of Islamic jihadis by posting videos on the internet in which they threaten to behead British Muslims. OK, so they're a bunch of w***ers as well.

And?

[Mojo]

What is islamophobia?A made up word.

[HeavyAaron]

What is islamophobia?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Islamophobia

Do you not like dictionaries?

Aaron

[Tony]

A made up word.

That's what I figured. It seems to also be a misnomer, as Arron demonstrates, "islamophobia" is not fear of muslims, as the word applies, but prejudice against muslims. Whatever it is, it is a BS word used to demonize.

[brodski]

A made up word.

Can you tell me a word which wasn't?

[SteveGrenard]

How about islamoparanoia?

[HeavyAaron]

That's what I figured. It seems to also be a misnomer, as Arron demonstrates, "islamophobia" is not fear of muslims, as the word applies, but prejudice against muslims. Whatever it is, it is a BS word used to demonize.


Tony,

You consistently misspell my name. I know I'm hardly one to complain about spelling, however, I would appreciate it if you would correct it in the future.

Thanks,
Aaron

[HeavyAaron]

By the same token, then shouldn't we can or replace the term "homophobia?"

Aaron

[fuelair]

All we really need to do is seperate false meaning from correct. By default (de fault of the lexicographers), Xphobia IS fear of X. People choosing to create the word to mean something else are free to do so, doesn't change its' actual meaning based on how the English language works - so however it is being used, Islamophobia means fear of Islam. On the anti-Semite basis (against Semites / jew hater) I would assume anti - Muslim or anti - Islamist would be equivalent for Muslim/Islam haters. Since I am none of the above (read what I have written in other threads carefully before challenging that), I am directly concerned only in the use of the language here.

[Dr Adequate]

The auto da fes all over the place are commemorated by a symbolic auto da fe on November 5 in which a Catholic is burned in effigy. Auto de fe

FYI.

[brodski]

Auto de fe

FYI.

I thought "auto de fe" meant setting your car on fire? :confused:

[gnome]

All we really need to do is seperate false meaning from correct. By default (de fault of the lexicographers), Xphobia IS fear of X. People choosing to create the word to mean something else are free to do so, doesn't change its' actual meaning based on how the English language works - so however it is being used, Islamophobia means fear of Islam. On the anti-Semite basis (against Semites / jew hater) I would assume anti - Muslim or anti - Islamist would be equivalent for Muslim/Islam haters. Since I am none of the above (read what I have written in other threads carefully before challenging that), I am directly concerned only in the use of the language here.

____-phobia generally refers to an irrational fear of something. So to whatever extent the fear can be considered rational, it would not be a phobia.

[Skeptic]

At some point, the 24/7 media's toxic effect on people's perception of the world evokes a reaction. After about 20-30 years worth of images depicting various and sundry Muslim groups engaging in a variety of terroristic activities, notwithstanding any justification or lack thereof, regardless of context, regardless of media's infinite capacity for slant and spin, the symbol becomes the reality and some people decide that they aren't going to take it anymore.

Of course, the poor, misunderstood Muslim world could have foiled the evil media's Islamophobic plans by not creating "various and sundry Muslim groups" that "engaging in a variety of terrorist activities."

Hijacking planes, shooting up schoolbuses, marching would-be (and actual) suicide bombers down the street, beheaing jews and other "infidels" (Daniel Pearl, etc., etc.), calling for a worldwide conversion of all "infidels" by force, for a second holocaust, and so on and so forth, are the kind of activities which--for some reason--make people uninterested in the "justification or lack thereof" or the "context", just like people aren't usually interested in a mass murderer's difficult childhood.

[steverino]

Of course, the poor, misunderstood Muslim world could have foiled the evil media's Islamophobic plans by not creating "various and sundry Muslim groups" that "engaging in a variety of terrorist activities."

Hijacking planes, shooting up schoolbuses, marching would-be (and actual) suicide bombers down the street, beheaing jews and other "infidels" (Daniel Pearl, etc., etc.), calling for a worldwide conversion of all "infidels" by force, for a second holocaust, and so on and so forth, are the kind of activities which--for some reason--make people uninterested in the "justification or lack thereof" or the "context", just like people aren't usually interested in a mass murderer's difficult childhood.

Well, according to Dork Rotor the above Muslim crimes against humanity never occured, but instead were manufactured by "The Media." And you, Skeptic, have been dooped by "The Media."

[Mycroft]

Well, according to Dork Rotor the above Muslim crimes against humanity never occured, but instead were manufactured by "The Media." And you, Skeptic, have been dooped by "The Media."

That's the Zionist controlled media. Don't forget.

Fnord.