Texas "bible as a literary subject" classes are really religion classes (surprise!)

[pgwenthold]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/stories/MYSA091306.01A.school_bible.35908c1.html

Apparently, these so-called "secular studies of the bible" classes aren't really studying the bible as literature. I don't think anyone should be all that surprised.

[scotth]

And I am sure no one will be surprised when they keep on ignoring the law and continue with the classes just the way they are.

Seriously, Anyone need a really great programmer somewhere other than in Texas?

[Trantor]

The article didn't mention it, but I wonder how many of those classes ended the sessions with the students joined in prayer.

[grayman]

While I was attending UMass/Amherst I took a "Bible as Literature" class for one semester. The instructor explained that he was treating the Old and New Testaments as anthology, nothing more. At the start of the first class he explained that anyone thinking that it was going to be a Bible study class similar to what you would find in a church basement was wasting their time.

As I recall, two students left the class at that point.

And it was one of my favorite classes during those four years.

[scotth]

The article didn't mention it, but I wonder how many of those classes ended the sessions with the students joined in prayer.

I wonder how many of ended with Rick Perry coming by and leading them in prayer.

[pgwenthold]

I wonder how many of ended with Rick Perry coming by and leading them in prayer.

I wonder how many ended with Steve Perry coming by and singing "Oh Sherry"

[LawnOven]

What the hell is the matter with that state?

[Marquis de Carabas]

What the hell is the matter with that state?
We put the wrong nutters to death.

[pgwenthold]

Please note that the state actually does have a law that says that bible classes have to taught as academic subjects, and can't be used to promote belief. The problem comes in enforcing it. There's no oversight.

That is why many (including me) have a big problem with the supposed "bible taught as literature" courses in the first case, because they are only a pretense for the teaching of (Protestant) religion.

Non-protestant sects need to object here. The Catholics have to be heard, to let people know that this is not just "teaching the bible in school." In most of these cases, it is Baptist teaching. The report indicates that it is often hostile toward things like Catholicism.

This is not christians vs non-christians. This is a sectarian dispute, as well.

[LawnOven]

We put the wrong nutters to death.


:) Ouch.

[scotth]

Please note that the state actually does have a law that says that bible classes have to taught as academic subjects, and can't be used to promote belief. The problem comes in enforcing it. There's no oversight.


The problem comes with finding someone who thinks it should be enforced. This is really what you might call a "planned lack of oversite".

[Elizabeth I]

What the hell is the matter with that state?

Come ON - every state has its loonies. You might as well say, "Massachusetts keeps re-electing Ted Kennedy. What the hell is the matter with that state?" Or, "Lots of people in California follow Scientology. What the hell is the matter with that state?" Or, "New York City cops shot Amadou Diallo to death with no provocation. What the hell is the matter with that state?"

Yep! Texas-born. And I have my blind spots, but no more than most other people.

[fuelair]

OK kids, now today me and good ol' Mr. Willy are going to put Gods spirit right in you!! So let's get those clothes off and assume the position- this WILL be a project grade!!

[Foster Zygote]

What the hell is the matter with that state?

Philip: Texas is really ugly, you know. I mean, what could anyone possibly like about this state?
Dorman: I like the way it's shaped.

Fandango

Steven

[scotth]

Come ON - every state has its loonies. You might as well say, "Massachusetts keeps re-electing Ted Kennedy. What the hell is the matter with that state?" Or, "Lots of people in California follow Scientology. What the hell is the matter with that state?" Or, "New York City cops shot Amadou Diallo to death with no provocation. What the hell is the matter with that state?"

Yep! Texas-born. And I have my blind spots, but no more than most other people.

To be fair, Texas is large enough that has quite a bit of variance from area to area. West Texas, Houston, and Austin are not too bad. North Texas and out through Tyler are really bad.

Having lived or worked long enough in many areas of the country, I actually have something (quite a lot) to compare Texas to. Texas is way on the wrong end of the list when it comes to Church/State separation, abundance of hardshell (very closed minded) Baptists, and generally not a great place to be for an agnostic or atheist. There are some, primarily German/Catholic settled, pockets that are more relaxed, and some but not all of the larger cities have large enough non-local populations to mellow them out.

For a major metro area, Dallas probably stands out in all the country for its intense religiosity.

I am sure I wouldn't care for living in a few other areas of the deep south. I am there are some areas of Mississippi and Alabama that would be horrifying to me. None of them have a top 25 largest city in them, though.

[ponderingturtle]

To be fair, Texas is large enough that has quite a bit of variance from area to area. West Texas, Houston, and Austin are not too bad. North Texas and out through Tyler are really bad.

Having lived or worked long enough in many areas of the country, I actually have something (quite a lot) to compare Texas to. Texas is way on the wrong end of the list when it comes to Church/State separation, abundance of hardshell (very closed minded) Baptists, and generally not a great place to be for an agnostic or atheist.

Of course it isn't there are provisions in teh texas constitution to keep them out of any civil service job. Agnostics can't be teachers in texas legaly.

[scotth]

Of course it isn't there are provisions in teh texas constitution to keep them out of any civil service job. Agnostics can't be teachers in texas legaly.

Quite true. By the Texas Constitution, I cannot hold any public office.

I've mentioned in another thread recently that I've consider running for some minor office (shop for an un-opposed seat or something) just so that I can challenge our constitution.

Of course, I would then be "that atheist" to everyone around here and my employment opportunities would shrink more than dramatically.

[ponderingturtle]

Quite true. By the Texas Constitution, I cannot hold any public office.

I've mentioned in another thread recently that I've consider running for some minor office (shop for an un-opposed seat or something) just so that I can challenge our constitution.

Of course, I would then be "that atheist" to everyone around here and my employment opportunities would shrink more than dramatically.

It also makes say closet atheists and agnostics not the ones best suited to protest the issue of having a baptist class in school.

[The Mutha]

Dallas is the only "major" city that I know of that the second question asked after meeting someone new is "where do you go to church"?

Where you go to church in Dallas tells everything about you.

[Marquis de Carabas]

...and the correct answer is "Texas Stadium".

[pgwenthold]

It also makes say closet atheists and agnostics not the ones best suited to protest the issue of having a baptist class in school.


That's why I called for the Catholics to stand up and be heard. They can't complain about minority atheists, and how this is a christian country if it Catholics who object.

This is best solved by pitting religion agin religion

[IllegalArgument]

And I am sure no one will be surprised when they keep on ignoring the law and continue with the classes just the way they are.

Seriously, Anyone need a really great programmer somewhere other than in Texas?

You should move to the Austin area, it's the only sane place in the state.

[scotth]

You should move to the Austin area, it's the only sane place in the state.

If I'm gonna move, I'll move someplace I have friends and/or family....

Or someplace that has a job waiting for me.....