The Lord is my shepherd

[Tricky]

For years I have heard the "shepherd" analogy when referring to the Christian God. Even the word pastor (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?pastor) derives from the word for "herdsman".

Does it every bother anyone to think about how shepherds treat their sheep? Perhaps they protect the sheep, but only inasmuch as they want to keep them for themselves. They don't teach them. They expect them to follow blindly. They fleece them. They eat them. (Some may abuse them in other ways, but we won't get into that. ;)) I'd particularly like to hear from the Christians here as to whether this is an innappropriate model for a leader.

[Dancing David]

I think that it is a reference to a parable that JC told.

So does God view humans as dumb animals.?!

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Tricky
For years I have heard the "shepherd" analogy when referring to the Christian God. Even the word pastor (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?pastor) derives from the word for "herdsman".

Does it every bother anyone to think about how shepherds treat their sheep? Perhaps they protect the sheep, but only inasmuch as they want to keep them for themselves. They don't teach them. They expect them to follow blindly. They fleece them. They eat them. (Some may abuse them in other ways, but we won't get into that. ;)) I'd particularly like to hear from the Christians here as to whether this is an innappropriate model for a leader.

I don't look at my Pastor as a shepherd. I don't even look at God that way.

However, I do like the way the whole relationship with God is described in the Psalms. I don't know much about how biblical shepherds treated their sheep. I have always heard that they did so with gentleness.

I can live with following description from Psalm 23

"The LORD is my shepherd;
I have everything I need.
He lets me rest in green meadows;
he leads me beside peaceful streams.

He renews my strength.
He guides me along right paths,
bringing honor to his name.

Even when I walk
through the dark valley of death,
I will not be afraid,
for you are close beside me.
Your rod and your staff
protect and comfort me.

You prepare a feast for me
in the presence of my enemies.
You welcome me as a guest,
anointing my head with oil.
My cup overflows with blessings.

Surely your goodness and unfailing love will pursue me
all the days of my life,
and I will live in the house of the LORD
forever.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Tricky
For years I have heard the "shepherd" analogy when referring to the Christian God. Even the word pastor (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?pastor) derives from the word for "herdsman".

Does it every bother anyone to think about how shepherds treat their sheep? Perhaps they protect the sheep, but only inasmuch as they want to keep them for themselves. They don't teach them. They expect them to follow blindly. They fleece them. They eat them. (Some may abuse them in other ways, but we won't get into that. ;)) I'd particularly like to hear from the Christians here as to whether this is an innappropriate model for a leader.

It seems to have been an appropriate metaphor ~ 2,000 years ago...

Several sayings attributed to Jesus, contain the shepherd theme.

Jesus is referred to as " The Good Shepherd ".. Like, can there be a ' bad ' shepherd..
You would think a bad shepherd wouldn't hold on to his sheep very long, thus no longer being able to claim the title...


If Jesus showed up today, I wonder what the metaphor would be..

' Coach ' maybe?

It is a pretty good analogy or whatever. The shepherd guides the sheep to a destination.

The believers of that time period will describe their spirituality in words that people of that time can understand and connect to, of course.

I agree that it it were to be done today, most likely a different analogy would be used.

-Who

[justsaygnosis]

Originally posted by Tricky
For years I have heard the "shepherd" analogy when referring to the Christian God. Even the word pastor (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?pastor) derives from the word for "herdsman".

Does it every bother anyone to think about how shepherds treat their sheep? Perhaps they protect the sheep, but only inasmuch as they want to keep them for themselves. They don't teach them. They expect them to follow blindly. They fleece them. They eat them. (Some may abuse them in other ways, but we won't get into that. ;)) I'd particularly like to hear from the Christians here as to whether this is an innappropriate model for a leader.

Interesting...'herdsman'.....
Noun: Manager, breeder or driver of livestock.
I suppose the modern 'shepherds' drive their flock into submission and manage to maintain the illusion that they will help alleviate the stress they infuse on them.

[thaiboxerken]

Christians are taught to be sheep, don't think or rationalize, just follow what the sheperd tells you to do.

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by Tricky
Does it every bother anyone to think about how shepherds treat their sheep? Perhaps they protect the sheep, but only inasmuch as they want to keep them for themselves. They don't teach them. They expect them to follow blindly. They fleece them. They eat them. (Some may abuse them in other ways, but we won't get into that.

I think it's a relatively suitable analogy considering the social context in which it was conceived. Everyone would have known that a shepherd attends to the basic needs of the animals and, if necessary, interposes himself between danger and the flock. He also, as Whodini noted, guides them to a destination. 2,000 years ago, sheep were kept mainly for their milk and fleece rather than to provide a human diet of lamb chops, so the image of slaughter would not have been the primary association in the minds of people exposed to this metaphor.

That said, it's merely an analogy, so obviously it breaks down at some point. If read too literally, any animal-based metaphor applied to human beings is ultimately going to be unflattering.

In ancient Greece, Egypt and neighboring civilizations, the image of the shepherd would have had a strong cultural resonance. Those cultures often attributed noble and heroic virtues to the shepherd. Pharaohs, for example, were often portrayed with a sceptre resembling a stylized shepherd's crook (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/egcgov5e.html), which symbolized good governance. And in Book I (http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/sid.8/bookid.1788/sec.12/) of The Republic (among other places), Socrates uses the image of a shepherd in his discussion of the attributes of the rational and just leader.

Interestingly, I've heard that unlike cattle, which can be driven forward toward the intended destination by the herdsman without too much trouble, sheep generally have to be led where you want them to go, because they instinctively don't trust going to a place that hasn't been shown to be safe. So I suppose if you're looking to symbolize a ruler who leads by example rather than merely by fiat, a shepherd is somewhat more suitable than a cowherd.

[MRC_Hans]

I suppose that in a more maritime culture, a word like "helmsman" would have been used.

Hans

[Crossbow]

You know this question came up in my Sunday School Class years ago when I was a child, and I still think the answer is quite vaild.

He said that sheep are good, gentle animals, that are bit dumb because they do not always recognize danger, they can be easily lead astray, and that there are many other animals that would like to harm the sheep (such as wolves).

So just like sheep need someone to watch over them, we need Jesus to watch over us.

[Jon_in_london]

Well, he did artificially inseminate Mary.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Tricky

Does it every bother anyone to think about how shepherds treat their sheep?

Naaaaaaaahhhhh. Doesn't bother me a bit.

AS

[Rose]

I've never understood why anyone would want to be compared to a sheep, or wish the protection of a shepard. A shepard does not act due to any altruistic feelings toward the sheep. He acts because he wishes to a) utilize the sheep to get fleece or b) to obtain food. Depending on the culture the sheep might also serve to provide a sacrifice to his diety.

And of course, laws on bestiality didn't get written because of a theoretical concern that someone might someday engage in certain activities...

[justsaygnosis]

Originally posted by Rose
Depending on the culture the sheep might also serve to provide a sacrifice to his diety.

And of course, laws on bestiality didn't get written because of a theoretical concern that someone might someday engage in certain activities...

And of course virgins make the best sacrifice...all inuendos intended.
High Priest:
How do you know for certain the ewe was a virgin?
Low Priest:
I probed the matter thoroughly.

What a 'sheep' shot but I had to take it.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Crossbow
So just like sheep need someone to watch over them, we need Jesus to watch over us.
I suppose he didn't say, "just like sheep eventually get eaten by their shepherd, we will be eaten by Jesus." ;)

[Rose]

quote:

And of course virgins make the best sacrifice...all inuendos intended.
High Priest:
How do you know for certain the ewe was a virgin?
Low Priest:
I probed the matter thoroughly.

What a 'sheep' shot but I had to take it.


Baaaaaad Gnosis. Why do ewe feel the need to ram home such painful puns?

[SquishyDave]

First off, I got a nose bleed from the puns, try to ease up a bit, if only for other peoples health :)

Really it's a good a metaphor as any if you wanna think some big ol' good guy is watching out for ya.

And shepherd just sounds better off the tounge than say cowherd, or........pig-dude......What do you call a guy who looks after pigs?

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Tricky
For years I have heard the "shepherd" analogy when referring to the Christian God. Even the word pastor (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?pastor) derives from the word for "herdsman".

Does it every bother anyone to think about how shepherds treat their sheep? Perhaps they protect the sheep, but only inasmuch as they want to keep them for themselves. They don't teach them. They expect them to follow blindly. They fleece them. They eat them. (Some may abuse them in other ways, but we won't get into that. ;)) I'd particularly like to hear from the Christians here as to whether this is an innappropriate model for a leader.


Tricky, in the iconography of Jesus as a good shepherd during the early christian ages, Jesus, was depicted like young Orpheus holding a lyre in his right hand.

For those who don't remember, Orpheus was the young man who was such talented a musician that with his lyre could charm the animals and makes them follow him (if you remember with the help of his music he managed to arrive to the under world to bring his wife back to life).

I don't know what happened in the meantime. Maybe some smarties and leftists interfered and changed the image of the musician to the image of the pastor ;)

Seriously. I think that the symbolism is not created "around" the Sheppard but around the sheep. What do sheep have in common? Stupidity? No, you mean atheists :)

They all look the same and therefore they are equal in the eyes of God.

Do you see now what sort of interpretations you get if you are not obsessed with Religion? ;)

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by SquishyDave

.......................
What do you call a guy who looks after pigs?

A swineherd.. ( really )

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Tricky

I suppose he didn't say, "just like sheep eventually get eaten by their shepherd, we will be eaten by Jesus." ;)

Well Tricky, you have to admit that fair is fair.

After all, innumerable Christians have eaten the body and drunk the blood of Christ via communion so of course the old man wants to snack on mortals from time to time.

:p

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Crossbow


Well Tricky, you have to admit that fair is fair.

After all, innumerable Christians have eaten the body and drunk the blood of Christ via communion so of course the old man wants to snack on mortals from time to time.

:p
Jesus is Chthulu!!?? :eek:

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Tricky

Jesus is Chthulu!!?? :eek:

Naw!

He is just on one of them-there new-fangled carb-free diet programs.

:p

[marxist2]

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
He makes me down to lie
Through pastures green he leadeth me the silent waters by
With bright knives he releaseth my soul
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places
He converteth me to lamb cutlets
For lo,m he hath great power and great hunger
When cometh the day we lowly ones
Through quiet reflection and great dedication
Master the art of karate
Lo, we shall rise up
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.


-- From Pink Floyd's "Sheep"

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Whodini
It is a pretty good analogy or whatever. The shepherd guides the sheep to a destination.

The male lambs get guided to their destination a little faster than the others...

[Jesus H Christ]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
The male lambs get guided to their destination a little faster than the others...

That's Catholic priests for you.